Latest / Collectors MD Features / #20: Taking Back Your Life | Gambling Recovery

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#20: Taking Back Your Life | Gambling Recovery · Collectors MD Features

0:10
Alyx, welcome to the podcast today. I really
0:12
appreciate you taking time to be on the show.
0:15
Maybe kind of get started on how Collectors MD
0:18
came about and maybe a little bit of background
0:21
of yourself. Yeah, I appreciate that, Jimmy.
0:23
Really love what you're doing with Gambling Recovery,
0:26
Taking Back Your Life. Awesome podcast. Really
0:29
appreciate the opportunity to come on here and
0:32
share a little bit about the work that we're
0:33
doing. So where to start? I mean, I could talk
0:37
a little bit about myself and then how and why
0:40
I started Collectors MD. So I've been collecting
0:43
my entire life, something that I've done since
0:46
I was a child, very much rooted in family and
0:50
connection, nostalgia, the purity of owning a
0:54
tangible item and just appreciating it for what
0:57
it is. And that's something that was very much
0:59
embedded into my childhood growing up. And as
1:03
I got older, my collecting journey, shifted i
1:07
started to have interest for you know i guess
1:11
more mature things beyond just like the pokemon
1:14
and the sports cards and the toys and started
1:17
collecting things like watches i got into the
1:20
sneaker game and as i got older my journey kind
1:24
of took a turn when i got into gambling So 2018
1:29
was really the first year that I started to dabble
1:32
with gambling. And it was the sports betting
1:35
specifically that really hooked me. And one thing
1:38
led to another. And I started to feel this need
1:42
to chase that dopamine high through the gambling.
1:47
And I discovered live blackjack, I want to say
1:49
around 2019. And when I started playing blackjack,
1:53
that's really when things started to take a turn
1:56
for the worst. got hooked fast the difference
1:59
between playing live blackjack as opposed to
2:02
watching a game for hours is you get that immediate
2:06
dopamine rush you get that immediate reaction
2:09
when you see the car turn and so i got hooked
2:13
and that paired with my involvement in the sports
2:17
card hobby which i was reintroduced to during
2:19
the pandemic really turned into a vicious cycle
2:23
and something that nearly destroyed my life.
2:26
Fast forward to 2025, I was going to GA meetings
2:31
for years. I had done treatment at a local facility
2:35
here in New Jersey called Right Choice Recovery,
2:37
which is a program that I graduated from in 2024
2:41
and now work at part -time. And one of the issues
2:45
that I experienced during my treatment from gambling
2:49
addiction is that I wasn't always able to resonate
2:52
with other folks in the room because of my additional
2:55
addiction, if you will, to collecting and to
2:59
spending and that impulsivity that comes with
3:02
being immersed in this sort of hobby ecosystem.
3:06
And so, like I said, the two fueled each other.
3:09
I was really only getting treatment or help for
3:12
the traditional gambling for the blackjack. And
3:15
what I really was... yearning for was the language
3:19
and the shared experience within this other space
3:24
within the collecting and so it kind of dawned
3:28
on me that there was nothing like this that existed
3:31
within the gambling recovery world or industry
3:34
and so i had an epiphany one day that i was going
3:38
to start something like this and Collectors MD
3:41
sort of just came to me in a in like a a vision
3:46
i was actually driving to pick my wife up from
3:48
the airport uh she was coming back from a business
3:50
trip and i like saw it through like my dashboard
3:54
like in in the clouds i was like this is it like
3:56
collectors anonymous something in in that vein
3:59
and the next day i bought the domain for collectorsmd
4:03
.com an instagram account And having looked back,
4:07
we've been fortunate to help hundreds, thousands
4:09
of other people who are experiencing or have
4:12
experienced exactly what I just explained. Thanks.
4:15
Thanks for sharing that. So I kind of want to
4:17
rewind a little bit before we get into Collectors MD.
4:20
You said that it was starting to destroy my life.
4:24
Give me a little bit of backstory to what that
4:26
means. So with the gambling. it was consuming.
4:32
Like I mentioned, like I've had an addictive
4:34
personality my entire life, right? Like even
4:37
as a kid, I always needed the next release. I
4:40
needed the next like hit of excitement in some
4:43
capacity. And when I got older, you know, and
4:47
gambling became legalized, it just checked all
4:50
the boxes for me, right? Like I just was after
4:52
that, that dopamine rush. And so I got hooked
4:56
to the casino it was the live blackjack it was
4:59
when you sit down within an app and you're like
5:02
facing a dealer and you see them through the
5:04
screen right and so the whole cycle the whole
5:08
process of being able to play hand after hand
5:11
do side bets sit at multiple seats at a table
5:13
and be able to see your balance either grow or
5:17
deteriorate really just gave me that adrenaline
5:20
that dopamine i was yearning for and again when
5:24
you pair the collecting component of all of this
5:27
with the modern day break culture and the technological
5:30
advancements that have been embedded into modern
5:32
hobby culture it just became this unrelenting
5:37
dopamine cycle that i couldn't escape and so
5:40
there were times where i would join a multi -thousand
5:44
dollar break and whether i hit a card of value
5:47
or of note or not i still felt this energy this
5:52
feeling that i had to go and get that money back
5:54
and so i would go and play live blackjack right
5:57
after joining a break to try to win that money
5:59
back some cases i would i would get the money
6:02
back and then some in other cases i would dig
6:05
myself a hole that was you know impossible to
6:07
get out of and it just turned into this cycle
6:10
that literally consumed me every single day it
6:12
was taking away from my ability to engage in
6:17
my relationships my marriage my ability to perform
6:20
at work i mean it'd be two in the afternoon on
6:22
a tuesday and i would just feel this again unrelenting
6:26
voice in my head And just didn't have control.
6:31
I wasn't in the driver's seat anymore. I would
6:32
just go and start playing blackjack or joining
6:35
breaks in like the middle of the workday. And
6:38
one thing would lead to another. And my entire
6:40
week, my entire month would be completely ruined
6:43
because I'd lose so much money in one sitting.
6:46
And this is just something that I dealt with
6:48
for years on end and for the longest time was
6:51
just in denial over it. And then eventually it
6:53
got to a point where I was like, I need real
6:55
help. And, you know, I sought treatment. And
6:57
since then, it's just been a journey, a path
7:00
towards recovery, redemption, rewiring my brain.
7:04
You know, recovery is a lifelong commitment.
7:05
You can't figure it out in a couple months or
7:09
a couple years. It's something that you have
7:11
to really, really commit to for your entire life
7:14
in order to get back in that driver's seat, be
7:16
back in control. So again, it's something that
7:19
nearly destroyed every aspect of my life. And
7:22
it's become an epidemic. I mean, people are experiencing
7:26
a lot of the things that I just explained, not
7:29
just within the traditional gambling environments,
7:31
but across all of these other industries that
7:34
are borrowing the same mechanisms as the casinos
7:37
and sports books. Yeah, and a lot of people don't
7:41
realize that obviously we can't be present if
7:44
we're in active addiction, but also the relationships
7:48
around us, the people it affects. At the time,
7:52
were you married? I got engaged in 2019. My wife
7:58
and I were supposed to get married in August
8:00
of 2020. The pandemic obviously set us back.
8:04
And we ended up getting married in November of
8:07
2022. So all of this kind of escalated over the
8:11
span of four years, four or five years. And it
8:14
was all while I was going through those stages
8:17
of my relationship with the woman who's now my
8:20
wife. Now, were you hiding it from her? Yeah.
8:24
Can you tell me what that, if you don't mind
8:26
me asking, what that maybe conversation was like?
8:29
Did you get caught? Did you fess up to it? yeah
8:33
i mean look one of the hallmarks of addiction
8:35
is secrecy right like not because somebody is
8:38
trying to be malicious but because addiction
8:40
thrives in isolation and for me the secrecy started
8:45
small i didn't even realize that i was hiding
8:47
stuff right it would be a purchase or just downplaying
8:51
how much money i spent or deleting transaction
8:54
histories or emails or not mentioning that i
8:58
had participated in a box break or you know a
9:01
package shows up at the door and i'm like i don't
9:04
know what that is somebody must have sent me
9:05
something right like so over time those small
9:07
omissions turn into a pattern of concealment
9:11
that creates this distance in a relationship
9:12
and that's exactly what I experienced again you
9:15
know early on I didn't know or acknowledge that
9:18
I had a problem and so yeah my wife knew I was
9:21
gambling but she didn't know the extent and I
9:24
didn't feel a need to have to tell her right
9:26
so there's a sense of not just isolation and
9:30
concealing things but like when you're really
9:33
in active addiction and you're just recklessly
9:36
gambling money away there's a sense of entitlement
9:40
and you don't even realize it in the moment but
9:41
looking back in hindsight like yeah i mean i
9:44
was arrogant i was selfish i was just chasing
9:47
a feeling you know there were times where i'd
9:49
like boast to her you know in a state of i don't
9:53
know Maybe we had a few drinks and I'd be feeling
9:56
really good about myself. Cause I had just won
9:58
a bunch of money and I'd tell her like, yeah,
10:00
I just want a ton of money. Like we want to go
10:02
on vacation or something like that. And like,
10:03
it was this sort of bravado, this, this lifestyle
10:06
that I tried to exude as part of the mindset.
10:09
And yeah, I mean, it just, it changed me fundamentally
10:11
as a person changed my personality and who I
10:14
was, but yeah, I mean the lying, the secrecy.
10:19
The manipulating, the gaslighting, all of that,
10:21
again, hallmark in gambling addiction and certainly
10:25
traits that I displayed when I was really in
10:28
the throes of it. Did anybody else know about
10:31
what was going on besides your wife, parents,
10:33
siblings, friends? I would say to an extent my
10:37
friends because it kind of became a part of my
10:39
identity. My friends always knew me as a collector.
10:43
People would come to my apartment and see these.
10:45
walls of sneakers you know i had over 550 pairs
10:49
of sneakers at one point i always had like the
10:51
nicest watches i had like you know nice clothes
10:54
like i always just kind of showcased this luxury
10:58
lifestyle. Right. And so I did well for myself
11:01
career wise, but I was living well beyond my
11:03
means and digging myself into this credit. But
11:06
again, it was like in an effort to preserve this
11:08
identity. And so, yeah, I mean, my friends also
11:11
knew I gambled and they would like tease me in
11:14
group chats here and there, not tease me in like
11:16
a mean way, but like, you know, I was, I was
11:18
the guy, I was like the guy who, you know, if
11:20
we were to go to AC Atlantic city for a weekend,
11:22
like, yeah, like I was the guy at the blackjack
11:24
table. I was the high roller. I was the guy that
11:28
DraftKings sent these incredible VIP gifts to.
11:33
And I got to go to the events, the games, the
11:35
concerts. And so, yeah, I mean, I would say through
11:39
the early years, especially before it really
11:42
got bad, my friends probably presumed that there
11:46
was something that... was starting to slip because
11:49
I wasn't always like that. But it wasn't until
11:52
my first stint of feeling like I hit rock bottom,
11:57
as we call it, and I don't like to use that expression,
12:00
rock bottom, because seeing things through the
12:02
lens I do now, my interpretation of rock bottom
12:05
is being on the side of the road, behind bars,
12:08
or dead in the ground. But with that being said,
12:12
when I felt like I hit my first rock bottom moment,
12:16
it was right before we got married in November
12:18
of 2022. And I went to my parents and it was
12:21
the first time that I really faced my addiction
12:24
and not only admitted to myself that I had a
12:26
problem, but admitted to them. And I broke down
12:29
in tears and was in just a state of panic because
12:32
I didn't know what to do with myself. I was getting
12:34
married in a month and I had gambled away pretty
12:37
much everything that I had saved for in terms
12:39
of like, my contribution to the wedding. And
12:42
I was beside myself. So that was like the first
12:45
real moment where I realized, man, this is a
12:48
serious problem and I need to get help. Tell
12:51
me about your first Gamblers Anonymous meeting.
12:53
How did that come about? How did you feel at
12:55
your first meeting? How did you feel when you
12:57
left the meeting? Yeah. So after that instance
13:01
where I told my parents about my addiction, I
13:06
decided after my parents had basically said we're
13:08
going to help you and they were going to start
13:10
tapping into their savings their retirement savings
13:13
and they're like this wedding's going to happen
13:15
don't worry and i felt very guilty in that moment
13:19
and then i went back home and realized how much
13:22
stuff i had that i just didn't want to sell because
13:25
again that entitlement that feeling of like this
13:28
is mine this isn't like for sale this isn't like
13:30
something that i'm willing to give up i ended
13:33
up having to sell like the majority of my card
13:36
and sneaker collection to offset the money that
13:39
I'd lost through gambling. And so when I did
13:41
that, it was essentially my version of bailing
13:44
myself out. The wedding happened, but I was still
13:47
gambling, right? I didn't learn my lesson. Fast
13:50
forward to like a month after we got married,
13:53
I was still very much in active addiction and
13:56
I was gambling again. I was winning money back
13:58
and I was feeling like things were returning
14:00
to a state of normalcy and maybe I didn't have
14:02
a problem and it was just like a one -off. And
14:05
then one weekend, same thing happened. I lost
14:08
an incredible amount of money in a very short
14:10
period of time and started to tap into the money
14:14
that we had gotten as gifts for my wedding. Like
14:16
it got really, really ugly, really, really fast
14:19
as it does with gambling addiction. And so at
14:22
that point, I determined that I needed to start
14:26
going to GA meetings. And this was in November
14:27
of 2022. And so I found a GA room in Jersey City
14:32
where I lived at the time. Went to my first GA
14:35
meeting, walked into that room thinking that
14:38
my story was so unique and that nobody else had
14:42
gone through what I had gone through. Sat down,
14:45
told my tale, and I just put it all out there.
14:48
And it turns out that in that meeting, I think
14:50
it was around the time of Thanksgiving or the
14:52
holidays. And so these guys were visiting from
14:54
Florida. These were like guys that had been in
14:57
this room in Jersey City for over a decade, and
14:59
they relocated down to Florida. They were visiting
15:02
for the holidays. so they were these ogs you
15:06
know tough love kind of tone and mindset shared
15:09
my story i used that expression rock bottom and
15:12
um after my share they hit me with some really
15:16
really harsh and blunt feedback one of them looked
15:18
at me and said kid you don't know rock bottom
15:21
that's what he said to me and i said to myself
15:25
holy This is the reality of what happens when
15:30
you end up in this type of situation. I was in
15:33
a room with all of these other addicts, people
15:35
who had been through the ringer and really had
15:38
a tough time with it. And that's like when I
15:41
really submitted for the first time. Step one,
15:45
which is realizing that you no longer have control
15:47
and that your life has become unmanageable. And
15:51
without the help of others, can't do it. And
15:53
so I started to go to GA meetings every week.
15:56
My problem was, again, that sense of entitlement,
16:00
that sense of I could figure this out myself.
16:02
And so while I was going to GA meetings, I was
16:05
still gambling. And every week I'd come in up
16:07
until April of 2023 with the same story that
16:11
I was still gambling. You know, my last date
16:14
was this morning. My last date was right before
16:16
the meeting. You know, like I wasn't taking it
16:18
seriously. even though I had been told all these
16:21
things from folks who had been there for such
16:24
a long time with so much more knowledge and wisdom
16:27
and experience than me. I felt this sense of
16:29
entitlement where I felt like I could figure
16:32
it out on my own. I felt like I was in control.
16:34
I felt like I was in the driver's seat when I
16:36
really wasn't. And it took... The worst beating
16:40
I had ever gotten during my active addiction,
16:43
April of 2023, where I'd lost the most money
16:45
I had ever lost in a 48 -hour window, for me
16:48
to realize that I needed to get real professional
16:52
help, not just GA, not just trying to figure
16:56
it out on my own, like real professional help.
16:59
And so that weekend, I was at a loss. I didn't
17:03
know what to do with myself. My wife was away
17:05
on a bachelorette party. My dad came and picked
17:07
me up from my apartment in Jersey City. He took
17:09
me back to my parents' house in North Jersey.
17:12
And I was paralyzed to the recliner in their
17:16
living room the entire weekend, not knowing what
17:18
to do with myself. Thought my life was over.
17:21
And so my parents helped me find Right Choice
17:24
Recovery. And I entered their program. And I
17:28
was there from 2023 through 2024. And I finally
17:31
built the courage to self -exclude. and walk
17:34
away from the casino and it was a rocky road
17:39
because it wasn't just like i gave up gambling
17:42
and that was that i mentioned the collecting
17:44
and the spending and the breaks i was still doing
17:47
that i refocused my energy into the hobby and
17:51
into collecting and i thought that if i can't
17:54
be in the driver's seat with the gambling then
17:56
i can at least be in control when it comes to
17:58
the collecting and man i was wrong i was so wrong
18:01
and so I was still buying. I was still joining
18:05
breaks. And then things really didn't get much
18:09
better. I mean, they weren't as bad because I
18:11
was only doing one activity. And I thought I
18:14
was this professional flipper, this reseller.
18:16
I could buy into breaks and get the cards graded
18:20
and sell them on the aftermarket and make a profit.
18:23
I mean, it was games. It was mind games. And
18:26
I was making things up in terms of justifying
18:29
the behavior. It just got to a point where it
18:32
was just as out of control as the gambling. And
18:34
I realized there wasn't a place to get help for
18:37
what I was experiencing, right? Because I bring
18:40
it up in GA, bring it up at Right Choice, but
18:42
I just wasn't able to connect with other individuals
18:45
who were experiencing fallout from the casinos
18:49
and sports books. And so it dawned on me that
18:52
there are all these other industries that borrow
18:54
the same mechanics, the same formula that the
18:57
casinos and sports books have been using to prey
18:59
on consumers for decades. And it's become an
19:03
epidemic. And so I created Collectors MD in an
19:06
effort to provide a support network and space
19:10
for individuals who are experiencing the same
19:14
financial, emotional, mental, relational fallout.
19:18
that folks experience from traditional gambling
19:21
just across these other verticals and we've been
19:24
fortunate to help so many people who are have
19:28
experienced exactly what i went through do you
19:31
think there's any uh because i'm a big believer
19:34
in this from my own experience as well but do
19:37
you think that there's a lot of ego that plays
19:39
in a part of this addiction absolutely i think
19:43
the sense of entitlement that i keep tying back
19:45
to like the ego is absolutely a major role in
19:50
all of it. It's more nuanced than people think
19:53
because I think when most people hear ego, they
19:56
just automatically assume arrogance or narcissism.
20:00
But I think in addiction, ego often shows up
20:03
as the belief that I can handle this myself.
20:06
I don't need anyone's help. Exactly what I just
20:09
shared that I experienced internally. I think
20:12
it can also show up as like, an unwillingness
20:15
to be vulnerable or admit mistakes or to acknowledge
20:18
the full extent of a problem so yeah i mean ironically
20:23
it looks like confidence but it's often rooted
20:26
in shame right like those moments that i described
20:28
before where i would like tell my wife i want
20:30
all this money and like we could do this that
20:31
the other it was really rooted in like shame
20:34
and insecurity right like i wanted her and my
20:39
friends and my family to perceive me in a certain
20:42
light i wanted to maintain this image of like
20:45
being successful and you know financially stable
20:50
and in control and rather than risk damaging
20:53
that image i would just keep this secret and
20:57
convince myself that i can solve the problem
21:00
privately and i'll figure out the debt and i'll
21:02
figure out like how to break the cycle and when
21:05
it comes to like not just the gambling but like
21:08
the collecting and the gambling adjacent behaviors
21:11
i think ego becomes tied to identity right because
21:15
there's another element to it especially with
21:17
the collecting and that's the social presence
21:18
you might see yourself as this like savvy investor
21:22
knowledgeable collector like entrepreneur or
21:26
influencer but beneath the surface you're experiencing
21:30
a lot of the same things that i just described
21:33
And I'm not saying everybody's like that by any
21:34
means, but there are a lot of people out there
21:36
who think they have it all figured out or they've
21:39
convinced themselves that they've had it all
21:41
figured out, but they haven't admitted that their
21:43
behavior has become harmful. And that really
21:46
can feel like admitting that they're not the
21:48
person that they thought they were. And that
21:50
can be incredibly difficult, right? So yeah,
21:53
I think ego is absolutely a vital role as part
21:58
of what we experience in active addiction. It's
22:02
interesting that you said that learning that
22:04
we weren't the person we thought we were. When
22:07
I was working my step work with my sponsor, I
22:10
had to write down some character limitations
22:13
that I experienced throughout my whole life and
22:15
write down what they were and in detail give
22:19
certain situations of how I acted out this way.
22:21
And I think that was one of the biggest turning
22:25
points for me in my recovery because, and I think
22:27
it was hard too. When I was working through this
22:30
step with my sponsor and I was reading off everything,
22:33
I literally broke out and started crying like
22:35
a baby. And he's like, what's wrong? And I'm
22:38
like, I just realized I wasn't the person I thought
22:42
I was. And wow, that truth right there really
22:47
hit me really hard. And then we went to a GA
22:50
meeting right after and they gave a therapy.
22:52
I cried my eyes out again. But man, I just felt
22:55
like I was just releasing. just so much i felt
22:59
like free after i did that even though it hurt
23:02
you know that's why this recovery process and
23:04
working the 12 steps like you know it's not supposed
23:07
to be easy nowhere in the book does it say this
23:10
is going to be pretty easy if you follow the
23:12
directions pain is i think a requirement to you
23:15
know, getting the best version of ourselves out.
23:18
And yeah, the character change, I think, is definitely
23:21
one of the miracles of the program and and the
23:23
ego and getting the ego out and stepping on the
23:26
ego. And I was doing the same thing you were
23:28
doing. I was going to meetings. I was I was gambling.
23:30
And, you know, somebody once said in a meeting,
23:32
you know what ego is? Ego is walking into a gamblers
23:35
anonymous room and lying to a bunch of people
23:38
who are professional bullshitters. That's ego,
23:40
you know? Yeah. And that's true. So you entered
23:43
this facility and did you feel like this was
23:46
something that kind of was something that you
23:48
really needed and was really like the turning
23:50
point for you? Yeah, 100%. I had the opportunity
23:55
to meet the founder, the CEO of Right Choice.
23:58
His name is Rob Sackowitz. I've had him on my
24:00
podcast and hearing his story changed my life,
24:04
right? Because he's somebody who experienced
24:07
addiction through not just gambling, but substance.
24:11
right alcohol drugs he's been sober now for 13
24:15
years and he took his biggest weakness and he
24:19
turned it into his best asset he turned pain
24:22
into purpose and when i heard his story i was
24:26
really really inspired and i wanted to find a
24:30
way to do the same thing and what i learned through
24:34
the process through the program is that step
24:36
12 is all about paying it forward Right. Taking
24:40
your experiences and helping other people who
24:42
are experiencing the same type of struggles.
24:44
So I knew that at some point I wanted to do something
24:47
very similar. I just didn't know what it looked
24:50
like yet. And I think that's I mentioned the
24:52
epiphany I had. It all kind of just came together
24:55
in this moment of clarity. I mean, I don't think
24:58
I would have gotten there mentally without the
25:01
experience I had at Right Choice and getting
25:04
to know Rob. Now that I'm working there part
25:07
-time and I lead group meetings, I've really
25:10
gotten to know what it's like on the inside just
25:13
in terms of the staff and the way the place is
25:16
operated and the way it's ran, right? They really
25:19
help you rebuild your life from the inside out.
25:21
And by the way, they treat substance, they treat
25:24
mental health, so it's not just gambling, but
25:27
they offer IOP, OP, grant -funded programming
25:30
for all of those issues. When you first arrive
25:33
within the gambling addiction environment, and
25:35
they explain to you that obviously gambling is
25:38
the problem, but... Like many other people in
25:41
recovery, gambling isn't necessarily the only
25:44
issue. And they teach you how shame and isolation
25:46
and avoidance and financial consequences, damaged
25:50
trust, and this tendency to cope with difficult
25:52
emotions through unhealthy behaviors all require
25:56
a rewiring of sorts in order for you to get through
26:00
the most difficult early stages of recovery.
26:03
And so Right Choice really just gives you a place
26:05
where you can stop pretending everything is okay.
26:10
It's like the first time that I was surrounded
26:12
by people who just understood exactly what I
26:14
was going through because many of them had lived
26:17
it themselves. To your point, like there's a
26:19
sense of that experience, that feeling you get
26:23
in GA, but every GA room is different. You never
26:26
know who you're going to cross paths with. There
26:28
are a lot of folks that come in there that still
26:30
are in active addiction or have huge egos and
26:33
could potentially be. toxic to the overarching
26:36
environment. I think joining a treatment center
26:39
that also follows the same sort of principles
26:42
and step work and personal inventory and all
26:44
of the things that you learn in GA, it's different
26:47
because it's more of like a controlled experience
26:49
and you're surrounded by professional clinicians
26:52
and there's a curriculum and there's a whole
26:55
slew of different coping mechanisms and activities
26:59
that you participate in. Overall, you just learn
27:02
that that lived experience can really help break
27:04
through the loneliness and the stigma that often
27:08
accompanies addiction. And they teach you accountability
27:11
and they challenge the stories and the justifications
27:15
that addiction can convince you to believe. And
27:18
they help you examine your behaviors and your
27:20
thinking patterns and your relationships and
27:22
the underlying reasons why you continue returning
27:25
to something that. causes so much harm. But most
27:28
importantly, they teach you how to sit with discomfort
27:30
instead of escaping it. And one thing that I've
27:32
learned through recovery is that one of the most
27:35
important things is you have to get comfortable
27:37
being uncomfortable. And so it's a huge part
27:40
of it. But yeah, I mean, I think Right Choice
27:42
saved my life in more ways than just one, not
27:45
just with my gambling addiction, but my outlook
27:47
on life as a whole. Yeah, I had the I listened
27:52
to Rob's story through Lewis's Monday night Zoom.
27:55
I mean, just the 20 minute share was just incredible.
27:59
Another miracle, you know, it's it's and again
28:02
him. doing the other miracle in the program,
28:04
which is, you know, paying it forward. And, you
28:07
know, it's, it's, it's a gift. I think it's an
28:09
amazing gift that these programs provide for
28:11
us. All right. So this, this worked for you.
28:13
And so tell me like some things that like you
28:15
started to notice early on about yourself, maybe,
28:17
or other things, other people that notice about
28:20
you as far as like character or maybe being more
28:22
present, like where are some things that stood
28:24
out for you? yeah i mean it's hard to really
28:26
pinpoint when that started because recovery from
28:30
gambling is a lifelong commitment and i'm only
28:33
really a couple years in right and so i'm still
28:36
very much in the early stages so with that being
28:39
said like one thing i think i noticed in recovery
28:42
was how disconnected i had become from the present
28:45
moment when i was gambling or only focused on
28:48
what card or what product or what box I was going
28:51
to purchase next. I was just constantly chasing
28:54
my next hit of excitement. So my mind was almost
28:57
never where my feet were, if you will. I was
29:01
either thinking about the next opportunity, the
29:03
next purchase, the next win, or how to make my
29:05
money back or how to escape the consequences
29:08
of my actions. And even when I was physically
29:11
present with family, friends, coworkers, I was
29:14
mentally somewhere else. There were times where
29:17
my dad would tell me, What is wrong with you?
29:21
I could see right through you. Like, it just
29:23
looks like you got a million things going on
29:26
at once in your head. Like, it just looks like
29:28
the wheels are always spinning. And he quite
29:31
literally told me that I looked like a waiter
29:32
that was trying to keep all these saucers up
29:34
at once. Like, I was just spinning all these
29:36
saucers because that's what it was. And like,
29:39
my dad's like my best friend. He's like my advisor
29:41
in life. He's my go -to for everything. And he
29:45
noticed it first. And so recovery forced me to
29:49
slow down and take an honest look at myself.
29:51
So as that noise began to quiet, I started noticing
29:55
aspects of my character that I had really hidden
29:59
beneath or behind addiction, right? I saw how
30:01
impatient I could be. I often overlooked how
30:06
I was just taking shortcuts. I didn't notice
30:09
how uncomfortable I was with like uncertainty.
30:11
It just like. took away my self -worth because
30:15
it was just tied to outcomes, money, possessions,
30:18
external validation. And I also realized like
30:21
how much I had been missing, right? Like conversations,
30:23
I think started to become more meaningful because
30:25
I was actually listening instead of just waiting
30:27
for them to end. So I could check my phone or
30:30
look at a marketplace. Time with family felt
30:33
like it was different because I was no longer
30:35
physically present, but mentally preoccupied.
30:39
And I think I became more aware of like these
30:41
small moments that I would have previously just
30:44
rushed through or miss without appreciating.
30:47
And so I don't think recovery like magically
30:50
makes a person better overnight, but it definitely
30:54
gives you the opportunity to just become a more
30:57
intentional person. And I think it teaches you
30:59
that being present is, it's a skill, you know,
31:03
it requires people to slow down. pay attention
31:07
accept that life doesn't always just need to
31:09
be exciting or stimulating to be meaningful and
31:12
one of the greatest gifts of recovery i think
31:14
is learning that peace often exists in the ordinary
31:18
moments that we tend to overlook and for years
31:21
i think i was just chasing that next rush and
31:24
recovery taught me how to appreciate what was
31:26
already right in front of me the whole time so
31:29
i think looking back like one of the biggest
31:31
character shifts wasn't simply that i just stopped
31:33
gambling it was that i became more emotionally
31:37
and mentally available to my family, to my friends,
31:41
to my work, to myself. And for the first time
31:44
in a very, very long time, I wasn't just constantly
31:47
focused on what was next. I was finally learning
31:51
how to be where I was. And I say all of that
31:54
with the caveat that, of course, I am not healed.
31:57
I am not fixed. I am not recovered. This is a
32:01
lifelong journey and I'm just taking it one day
32:03
at a time, man. As well said, I mean, I, I couldn't
32:07
agree more. I mean, even for myself, I have 14
32:10
years clean and, you know, I always look at it
32:12
this way. Like I'm one bet away from complete
32:16
destruction again. You're right. And, and with
32:20
comparison to somebody who has one day clean
32:24
one month clean. Yeah. I have the years, but.
32:27
I'm one better way. And I remind myself all the
32:31
time of that. And I just think that it's such
32:36
a long process. I look at my recovery for the
32:41
14 years and I think about my one -year pinning.
32:44
I think about where I was and how I felt and
32:48
it was an amazing feeling. And then I had my
32:50
five -year pinning and I'm like, oh man, I feel
32:52
really good. I got five years. This is great.
32:56
And I just like, then I look at my 10 -year pinning
32:59
and I'm like, holy shit, I was like, I'm so much
33:02
better than I was when I was in my five -year
33:04
pinning. And then I look at now, four years later
33:07
for my 10 -year, I'm like, God, I'm so much better
33:10
in my 10 years. And so like, I think I just,
33:13
what I'm trying to say is I try to be just a
33:17
little bit, every year I try to be a little bit
33:18
better than I was the year before. And I think
33:21
all of that adds up. I've been acting a certain
33:24
way for so long, over 20, 30 years. One, two,
33:28
three years isn't going to completely rewire
33:30
me. And I'm forever trying to grow and work on
33:35
myself. And of course, I make mistakes still.
33:39
And I act out in ways that aren't the healthiest.
33:43
But I think the biggest difference while I was
33:46
gambling to now is I'm able to kind of stop and
33:49
have some awareness. Not only that, but I'm able
33:52
to actually make a phone call to somebody and
33:54
talk about it, whether it's my therapist or somebody,
33:56
you know, in the room. And, you know, it could
33:59
be somebody with three months clean or, you know,
34:01
or 10 years clean. I don't look at as clean time
34:05
as like, I think everybody can provide something
34:07
for me. And yeah, I'm not perfect. And it really
34:11
is a lifelong process to just try to find ways
34:14
to better myself. Really well said. Yeah. All
34:19
right, so you got some clean time in you. You
34:21
feel a little bit better. You feel a little more
34:22
present. You said, I think, before we started
34:26
recording, that you started Collectors MD around
34:30
last year, 2025. How did that come about? Yeah,
34:35
I mean, like I said, I just had this epiphany.
34:38
I felt like for the longest time I was going
34:41
into these rooms and I was having such a hard
34:43
time connecting with folks because of my other
34:46
experiences that were still creating the same
34:49
harm that the traditional gambling was and so
34:52
you know i had a handful of conversations with
34:55
folks that had experienced similar issues you
34:58
know there are like facebook groups and reddit
35:01
threads and people talk about this on social
35:04
media from time to time as like a means to an
35:07
outlet where they share their experiences and
35:10
are seeking support or tools and resources And
35:14
it just seemed like the common theme was that
35:16
people would just direct them to GA and like
35:20
GA is great for what it offers, but it's like
35:22
the hobby and collecting and these gambling adjacent
35:25
activities. They all have a different language.
35:28
They all have a different vernacular and just
35:31
a different type of experience that you can't
35:35
really explain if you haven't experienced yourself.
35:39
And so Collectors MD just serves as like this.
35:43
overarching support group for anyone experiencing
35:47
difficulties challenges financial mental emotional
35:51
relational fallout from any activity any behavior
35:55
any industry any vertical that is adjacent to
35:59
traditional gambling and again we're calling
36:02
it the dopamine economy crisis it's really sweeping
36:06
not just the country but the world by storm you
36:09
have kids that are getting hooked on these mystery
36:11
boxes Forget Labubu. Now they have like these
36:14
jelly donuts, right? I was at a pool party yesterday
36:18
and my wife's cousin's daughter, who's in high
36:21
school, she's like a freshman in high school.
36:23
She's got like one of these clips on her phone
36:26
case. It's like this little character. It was
36:28
like a little baby or something. And I was like,
36:29
what the heck is that? And she was like, oh yeah,
36:31
I got it in a mystery box. And this is like the
36:34
new craze that these kids are hooked on. And
36:37
it's like, oh yeah, it's worth like, you know,
36:39
X amount. And it's like, it's always tied to
36:40
the monetary value, right? And this is what the
36:43
world has come to. Everybody is just hooked on
36:46
these different ways to chase that adrenaline,
36:49
chase that dopamine, chase that excitement. And
36:52
we want to be there for as many people as we
36:55
possibly can. And so that's why we partner with
36:59
so many organizations, both within these hobby
37:02
environments and the recovery space, so that
37:05
we can provide layered support, tailored support
37:09
for every individual, no matter where they are
37:12
in their journey. You mentioned breaks a couple
37:16
of times in the podcast. Can you break down what
37:19
breaks mean? Yeah. When I met with Sam last week,
37:24
we had the exact same conversation. So I'll try
37:26
to explain it the same way. Card breaks are essentially
37:29
a group -based way of opening up a product or
37:33
a box of trading cards. And so instead of one
37:36
person buying an entire box of cards, a breaker
37:39
or a dealer, basically the host, the seller,
37:43
purchases the product and then sells off portions
37:46
of it to individual participants. So those portions
37:50
can be... based on teams players league divisions
37:54
random assignments sometimes serial numbers sometimes
37:58
what they call parallels which is like the color
38:01
variation of the card there's so many different
38:03
formats that can sort of divide the contents
38:07
of the box depending on how the break is structured
38:09
so for example let's say a breaker has a case
38:12
of football cards rather than selling the entire
38:15
case to one person They might sell the rights
38:18
to each NFL team. So if you buy the Eagles, every
38:22
Eagles card pulled during the break belongs to
38:24
you. Someone else might buy the Chiefs or the
38:27
Giants or the Cowboys or the Patriots. They each
38:31
would get the respective players from those teams
38:34
that come out of the box. So the break is then
38:37
streamed live on platforms like Whatnot, Fanatics
38:41
Live, eBay Live. There are others. There's Loupe.
38:45
People do it on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. There's
38:48
so many different streaming services that offer
38:51
the ability to host these live breaks. So participants
38:55
watch in real time as packs are open and cards
38:58
are revealed. If your team or your spot hits
39:01
a valuable card, you receive it. If not, you
39:04
may receive very little or nothing at all. And
39:07
so that's where the gambling comparisons often
39:09
emerge. The experience combines a financial stake
39:12
on certain outcomes. anticipation social interaction
39:16
live entertainment and intermittent rewards most
39:20
participants are not guaranteed value equivalent
39:23
to what they paid and the outcome is largely
39:26
determined by chance so to be clear not everybody
39:29
who participates in breaks is necessarily gambling
39:32
or has a problem but many collectors actually
39:35
enjoy participating in these breaks responsibly
39:38
as a form of entertainment as a way to you know
39:40
access these cards or these products that they
39:44
otherwise wouldn't be able to afford but for
39:46
some individuals especially those that are vulnerable
39:48
to addictive behaviors the experience can absolutely
39:52
trigger many of the same psychological mechanics
39:54
that make gambling appealing and so the excitement
39:59
isn't necessarily just about the cards it's the
40:02
anticipation of what might be inside the possibility
40:05
of hitting something that could be life -changing
40:07
right like Victor Wembanyama's in the NBA finals
40:10
he just had a rookie card sell for millions of
40:13
dollars you buy into a break where that card
40:15
is still available that one of one could potentially
40:19
come out you're looking at hitting the lottery,
40:21
right? Like you talk about the near misses, the
40:24
social energy of the chat, the belief that the
40:26
next break might be the one. That's why breaks
40:28
can be so engaging and for some people so difficult
40:30
to walk away from. Thanks for the explanation.
40:33
And then correct me if I'm wrong, but from an
40:36
outsider, not in this field, it sounds like gambling
40:39
to me. Right. Yeah. Everything I just explained
40:43
is exactly what you experience in a traditional
40:46
gambling environment. So would you say it's,
40:49
There's clearly similarities, not exactly like
40:53
gambling, correct? It's subjective. I mean, yeah,
40:56
you could say there are certain nuances that
40:59
make it more like one activity as opposed to
41:02
playing blackjack or betting on sports. Think
41:05
about gambling as a whole. If you go to the casino,
41:08
they have dozens, sometimes hundreds of different
41:10
games, different ways you can gamble. This is
41:13
effectively just another way you can gamble.
41:16
It's like comparing roulette. to baccarat you
41:20
know like they're two completely different games
41:23
but the outcome is still based on chance right
41:26
like they're both gambling and so yeah i mean
41:29
you could say the same thing here because quite
41:31
often you enter these environments where the
41:34
breaker is now hitting big cards and rather than
41:37
sending the cards to the customer they're buying
41:39
them on the spot they're paying you out they're
41:41
cashing you out So if you're getting cashed out,
41:44
if you're spending a thousand dollars to get
41:46
into a break, you had a $2 ,000 card and the
41:49
breaker says, I'm going to pay you the $2 ,000
41:51
on the spot for that card. How is that any different
41:55
from betting a thousand dollars on a game and
41:57
winning back $2 ,000? Yeah. I mean, this pandemic,
42:00
I mean, I can, I could do a whole episode on,
42:03
on that alone and what it caused, but I mean,
42:07
it just seems like. whoever's pulling the strings
42:10
is trying to find any possible way to create
42:13
this dopamine lifestyle or world, you know, even
42:18
with like prediction markets and, you know, card
42:21
collecting. So what are some common like stories
42:24
that you might hear from somebody with a collecting
42:28
problem that like come to you for help? Like
42:30
what are some of the common stories or problems
42:32
that you see from people that are like first
42:34
admitting they have a problem and they want to
42:36
explain what's going on? Yeah, I mean, first
42:39
of all, Jimmy, I want to just touch on one thing
42:41
you said. That's one of the things people really
42:44
need to understand is that these platforms and
42:46
industries are not accidentally creating these
42:49
experiences. Their business models literally
42:52
depend on attention, participation, and repeat
42:55
engagement. So whether you're talking about social
42:58
media, gambling, sports betting, prediction markets,
43:02
video games. or the collectibles industry like
43:06
all these experiences are built around the same
43:08
psychological principles they leverage uncertainty
43:11
anticipation rewards scarcity social validation
43:15
fomo because those are some of the most powerful
43:18
drivers of human behavior and dopamine often
43:22
gets oversimplified as you know this like pleasure
43:24
chemical but it's really a lot more than that
43:27
it's about motivation and anticipation it's what
43:30
drives us to seek chase and pursue that reward.
43:35
And I think interestingly, dopamine tends to
43:39
spike not when we receive a reward, but when
43:42
we believe a reward might be coming. So it's
43:45
like right before the reveal, right before you
43:48
open the pack, right before the dealer turns
43:50
the card over. And that's why I think like these
43:52
card breaks and the pack openings and the mystery
43:54
products, the countdown timers, the limited releases,
43:58
all of these things are so compelling. the anticipation
44:02
becomes so addictive. The possibility becomes
44:04
more powerful than the reality. And so to answer
44:08
your question, a very common story that we hear
44:10
is something like this, right? Someone gets back
44:13
into collecting for completely healthy reasons.
44:16
You know, maybe they loved cards or Pokemon or
44:18
sports as a kid. Maybe they're reconnecting with
44:21
a family member or sharing the hobby with the
44:24
child, right? At first, everything feels innocent
44:27
and enjoyable. Then they discover these card
44:30
breaks. the live streams the social media content
44:33
the youtube the marketplaces and suddenly they're
44:36
consuming hobby content throughout the day and
44:40
they begin chasing bigger hits bigger cards bigger
44:43
experiences no longer like because of the involvement
44:47
with the child but for themselves because they
44:49
enjoyed the feeling and then when they miss they
44:52
feel compelled to just keep going to try again
44:54
because they're convinced that they're due the
44:57
same way you would in a traditional gambling
44:59
environment so at some point the hobby stops
45:02
being primarily about collecting and starts becoming
45:05
about the chase and that's often the moment people
45:09
begin feeling trapped they're no longer just
45:11
buying cards because they genuinely want the
45:14
cards they're buying because they're chasing
45:16
a feeling and the reality is that most of these
45:20
companies aren't sitting in a room plotting how
45:23
to create or how to replicate or duplicate addiction
45:27
they're just trying to maximize engagement retention
45:30
and revenue so the problem is that when these
45:34
goals become the priority the systems they build
45:37
often end up exploiting the same psychological
45:41
vulnerabilities that drive addictive behavior
45:44
so for the average collector that may never become
45:48
a problem but for someone with a predisposition
45:51
toward addiction somebody like myself somebody
45:53
who is impulsive or has exhibited compulsive
45:57
behaviors before these types of environments
46:00
can become incredibly difficult to navigate and
46:03
that's why this awareness is so important Our
46:06
goal isn't to shame collecting or eliminate the
46:10
hobby altogether. It's just to help people recognize
46:13
when they're no longer engaging with the hobby
46:17
intentionally and when the hobby has started
46:19
really just owning them. And that's often the
46:22
difference between what we call healthy participation,
46:25
intentional participation, and a relationship
46:27
that has just become harmful. I just think that
46:32
it would just be incredibly hard to get involved
46:35
in gambling card collecting and be able to do
46:40
it responsibly i think it'd be very difficult
46:42
just to see the algorithms and you know all these
46:46
different data points that they could reel you
46:49
back in and like and then these you know these
46:51
live breaks and i just feel like wow like especially
46:55
for like I mean, that's hard for an adult not
46:58
to get addicted, let alone some 10 -year -old
47:02
who, you know, the brain isn't fully developed
47:04
until they're 25. Like, yeah, I mean, and I love
47:09
that, like, you know, pretty much your goal is
47:11
to try to get this to a healthy way of doing
47:14
it. But, wow, like, I just feel like as a society
47:18
with technology, it's like, wow, I feel like
47:22
we don't even stand a chance. Unless there's
47:25
like some deep recovery being involved and like
47:28
getting help. Like I just, I feel, I feel bad
47:31
that, that this has gotten to this point. Yeah.
47:34
I mean, don't feel bad. It's just the reality
47:37
of the world we live in, you know, like the biggest
47:41
thing that I didn't even mention that I do bring
47:43
up often is that these industries are not regulated,
47:46
right? Like the casinos, the sports books, the
47:49
gambling industry as a whole is now legalized
47:51
and regulated in the States. within this country
47:54
where it's legal. That's not the case with the
47:58
card breaks and the live streaming platforms.
48:00
And even some of these other activities and industries
48:03
that we talk about, right? Like there's no regulation
48:06
of gaming, right? There's no regulation when
48:09
it comes to going on a live streaming platform
48:11
and buying mystery boxes for toys or for watches
48:16
or for handbags, which exists by the way, all
48:18
of this stuff is like, it's the blind box vacation
48:20
of everything. it's taken over none of that exists
48:24
and so because of that we have to find a way
48:27
to regulate ourselves and so Collectors MD really
48:30
serves as that bridge to offer people tools resources
48:34
strategies on how to self -regulate on how to
48:38
set those internal guard rails boundaries you
48:41
know we partner with platforms like gamban gambam
48:44
now offers the option to block a lot of these
48:48
gaming platforms and apps live streaming platforms
48:51
and apps from your device when you download their
48:54
software so it's just all about creating the
48:57
right formula that works for you like i said
49:00
earlier everybody's journey is different yeah
49:02
everybody has a different path everybody has
49:04
different triggers you know we have some folks
49:06
that come in that you know they've never gambled
49:09
the day in their life like they've never bet
49:11
on a game they've never been to a casino yet
49:14
they're still hooked on this stuff there are
49:16
other folks that come in that like me are addicted
49:18
to both there are folks that come in that have
49:21
no problem drinking or drugging or like you know
49:24
They do all that responsibly, but they can't
49:26
participate in this responsibly. So again, like
49:28
everybody's different and we intend to meet folks
49:31
wherever they are in their journey. I feel like
49:34
family plays such a pivotal role with helping
49:38
the addict get better. I've seen a lot of different
49:41
situations where the family was like, this is
49:45
your thing. You got to figure it out. You got
49:46
to get good help. And this is what you have to
49:48
do. And they don't really play that much of a
49:51
part in it, which I understand. But I do think
49:55
it's very crucial to have that support. So like
49:57
what conversations do you think like family members
50:00
should have when they're kind of concerned? I
50:04
think it's really important to lead with empathy,
50:09
lead with understanding. You know, if you come
50:13
forth as like you're attacking someone or telling
50:15
somebody that they have a problem and that they
50:18
need real help and you're aggressive, people
50:20
tend to just go in the opposite direction. That's
50:22
when they resist. That's when they don't want
50:24
to participate in something like recovery or
50:27
rehab. And so I think it's really, really important
50:30
that you sort of massage the situation delicately.
50:35
Obviously, every person's different, but like
50:37
something like a formal intervention, if done
50:40
appropriately, appropriately can be effective
50:43
but at the same time you don't want to like scare
50:46
the person away so you have to be very very cautious
50:49
there are certain telltale signs that you can
50:51
pick up on if you start to notice that somebody
50:54
in your family whether it be your kid your spouse
50:58
your parent your sibling even friends colleagues
51:01
are starting to exhibit some of these behaviors
51:04
that we spoke about earlier The lying, the cheating,
51:07
the secrecy, the manipulating, the gaslighting,
51:10
maybe distancing themselves often in isolation,
51:14
always on their phone, not wanting to engage
51:17
in a lot of the things that they used to engage
51:19
in, maybe not as social. These are all telltale
51:22
signs that we see on display when somebody is
51:25
really in the thick of it. So, again, like you
51:28
don't want to jump the gun. You don't want to
51:29
just automatically assume that somebody is an
51:31
addict or somebody needs help. If you do start
51:35
to see somebody in your life exhibit any of these
51:38
behaviors, any of these emotions, any of these
51:41
traits, don't hesitate to reach out to us and
51:43
we can help you navigate that path depending
51:45
on what your circumstances look like. Thanks.
51:49
Okay, I have a few more questions for you and
51:51
then we'll wrap it up. What's something that's
51:54
kind of surprised you the most since starting
51:56
Collectors MD? I think like just the overwhelming
51:59
amount of support that we've gotten, not just
52:02
like from people that need the help, but from
52:04
the gambling recovery industry. Like we've been
52:08
fortunate to partner with so many organizations
52:11
and platforms that offer tools and resources.
52:15
I mean, just going down the list here of recovery
52:18
and support partners, we partnered with 800 Gambler.
52:21
You know, we've partnered with. Evive, Gambin,
52:24
Gamphin, NuForm, Open Recovery, you know, a handful
52:29
of treatment centers like Right Choice and Better
52:32
Way of Miami and North Jersey Recovery Center
52:35
and Zep Center. a handful of coalitions like
52:39
pgcc and the new york council on problem gambling
52:42
so it's just it's been really incredible having
52:45
so many partners i think birch's health was our
52:49
first partner so shout out to birches but um
52:51
just having the ability to now create that extra
52:54
layer of support for folks who might need the
52:56
professional guidance and then also operating
52:59
as like a consultant to a lot of these organizations
53:01
to teach them the language the vocabulary the
53:05
modules the curriculum that is tied to this gray
53:09
area of addiction. It's just been really, really
53:12
humbling. And I'm eternally grateful to the entire
53:15
industry as a whole for sort of embracing us
53:18
with open arms. We talked about this before we
53:20
went live. We're going to be presenting in July
53:22
in Nashville at the NCPG conference, which is
53:26
a huge milestone for us. And, you know, that
53:28
couldn't have happened if we didn't have this
53:30
incredible support from the recovery world. You
53:34
know, I thought coming into this, I was kind
53:36
of going to be this like outlier that was trying
53:39
to figure it out on my own. But like the recovery
53:41
industry, the gambling recovery industry, the
53:44
problem gambling industry has really, really
53:46
embraced us. Yeah, and I always say this about
53:49
myself, and if you weren't a compulsive gambler
53:53
or didn't experience this type of destruction,
53:55
you wouldn't be in this position to be able to
53:57
help as many people as you are. So I just think
54:00
life is just so wild. The worst thing that's
54:05
ever happened to me ended up being the best thing
54:06
that's ever happened to me. And I'm seeing that
54:08
unfold with you. And I really appreciate, you
54:12
know, you're trying to help people along with
54:13
yourself, too. I'm sure, you know, helping people
54:15
helps helps us, you know. Yeah, I appreciate
54:17
that, Jimmy. You know, I want to just mention
54:19
a quick story. Sure. I just recalled, first of
54:23
all, what you just described is exactly what
54:24
I was talking about earlier in terms of what
54:27
I learned from Rob is turning pain into purpose,
54:29
turning a shitty situation into one that could
54:32
help. other people, right? The lived experience
54:34
is invaluable, can't be taught, right? Like,
54:38
if you haven't lived it, if you haven't felt
54:39
the sheer pain that can come from this disease,
54:42
it's not necessarily easy to connect or resonate
54:45
with people who are going through it. With that
54:48
being said, when I started at Right Choice almost
54:50
a year ago, I had a conversation with Rob and
54:54
I was a little apprehensive. I had been running
54:55
my weekly peer support meetings at Collectors MD
54:57
for some time. I had chaired meetings in GA before,
55:00
but I never like ran a clinical meeting. And
55:03
so before that meeting, he was like, bro, you're
55:05
going to feel like you're on cloud nine coming
55:07
out of this meeting because it'll be the first
55:09
opportunity where you have the ability. to directly
55:14
impact people in a way that's really going to
55:16
make a difference. And he couldn't have been
55:19
more right about that. Like coming out of that,
55:21
I was like, holy shit, this was incredible. Like,
55:23
I feel like I've developed a superpower. So to
55:26
your point, you get like so much out of leading
55:28
these meetings. That's like my dopamine now,
55:31
you know, like that's my high is helping other
55:34
people. And I genuinely feel like a sense of
55:37
it's therapeutic. It's cathartic, like to be
55:40
able to really help other people. people and
55:42
so you know I don't want to say it in a way that
55:44
comes across as like I'm doing it for my own
55:46
selfish reasons but I'm certainly passionate
55:49
about this work and I think passion and genuine
55:52
love for what you do is really really vital especially
55:55
when you're helping people yeah I say it all
55:59
the time like it's it's such a rarity to be able
56:01
to do something that you're passionate about
56:03
and just you know having purpose in life you
56:06
know yeah So my last question about the collector's
56:10
MD, do you implement any of the 12 step foundation
56:14
into your recovery? Absolutely. Yeah. We have
56:18
a recovery guide, which I can pull up real quick.
56:21
Let me just share my screen. Yeah, that'd be
56:23
cool. I've always said the 12 steps, you know,
56:26
can be used for anybody, you know, not just compulsive
56:29
gamblers or Adams. Yeah. So if you go through
56:32
our website under tools and resources, there's
56:36
a drop down menu. CMD Recovery Guide. We have
56:39
two versions. We have an abbreviated version,
56:41
which we use for our weekly meetings just to
56:44
sort of keep things tight and so that we have
56:46
enough time for everybody to share. But we also
56:48
have an extended version that we encourage folks
56:50
to engage with on their own time. And so as part
56:53
of this, it's a multi -step recovery guide that
56:57
is adapted from the ga yellow or combo book and
57:01
so we have 12 steps and i'll read them real quick
57:04
one we admitted that our spanning or collecting
57:06
and taking control of our lives in ways we couldn't
57:08
ignore two we began to believe that with the
57:11
right support we could find peace again three
57:13
we committed to asking for help and opening ourselves
57:15
up to community -based recovery four we took
57:17
an honest look at our habits and the patterns
57:19
driving them five we shared those truths with
57:22
someone safe and trusted without shame six we
57:24
became willing to let go of the behaviors that
57:26
no longer served us seven we Ask for support
57:28
to making those changes because it's hard to
57:30
do alone. Eight, we identified the people our
57:32
behavior may have hurt, including ourselves.
57:34
Nine, we made amends where we could with compassion
57:37
and accountability. Ten, we kept checking in
57:39
with ourselves and owned when we slipped. Eleven,
57:42
we practiced regular reflection, mindfulness,
57:44
and openness to growth. And twelve, we committed
57:46
to helping others by showing up honestly without
57:48
judgment. So it's quite literally like an adaption
57:50
of the 12 steps from the GA program. But we also,
57:56
you know, we have the 20 questions. We have guidance
57:58
for new members. So yeah, I highly encourage
58:02
folks to check out the recovery guide. Again,
58:04
it's rooted in everything we do. And it's a really,
58:07
really important component of recovery. You know,
58:09
I always say step work, personal inventory, checking
58:12
in. This is the foundation of recovery. And you
58:16
have to get to a point where you're quite literally
58:18
doing them every day as if like you're brushing
58:20
your teeth. Because like you said before, like
58:22
it only takes one slip up to have to start over
58:26
and in some cases set us back even further than
58:28
where we started in the beginning of recovery
58:31
so just keep that in mind this has become like
58:34
my bible in a lot of ways because it's everything
58:37
that we do and everything that we put out and
58:41
it's just become again the foundation of recovery
58:44
yeah it's thanks for sharing that and you don't
58:48
hear it too often but i i like to say it but
58:51
like it's if you really look at the 12 steps
58:53
like There's really only like two that really
58:55
talk about the addiction. And it just kind of
58:58
just shows you there's just so much more to this,
59:00
you know, that's deep rooted that we need to
59:01
kind of just like, again, we need to learn about
59:03
ourselves and learn about why we do the things
59:05
we do. And I think everybody could use that,
59:08
you know? 100%. I mean, I think recovery, it
59:13
has to become a part of our everyday lives. You
59:15
know, there's something that I always say that
59:17
I really stick to, and that's in recovery, we
59:21
have to bat a thousand. right? There are no ground
59:23
outs. There are no pop -ups. There are no strikeouts.
59:26
Like you have to bat a thousand. And if you don't,
59:30
then you set yourself back sometimes months,
59:33
sometimes years, sometimes decades. And like,
59:36
that's the reality of it. And I don't say it
59:39
in a way that tries to discourage people. You
59:41
know, you don't want to make it seem overly daunting.
59:43
It is a one day at a time type of mindset. But
59:46
at the same time, we have to realize like recovery
59:49
is not easy, right? Like The best baseball players
59:52
in the world bat 300, right? That's 30%. We have
59:56
to bat a thousand. We have to be more than three
59:59
times as good as the most professional baseball
1:00:01
players in the world. Like that's daunting, but
1:00:03
it's the reality. And so that's why the guide,
1:00:06
the step work, the personal inventory, checking
1:00:10
in with each other, peer support, showing up
1:00:13
to meetings, all of this is paramount in order
1:00:16
to stay on the right path. yeah and it's it's
1:00:19
i always tell people too like this goes more
1:00:21
than just you know stopping the addiction this
1:00:23
is you know learning how to be a better person
1:00:25
uh not self -destructing not only in the addiction
1:00:28
that we have but in anything you know you know
1:00:30
i i always i always use this as an example uh
1:00:33
when i was like a couple months uh clean there
1:00:35
was a member george c and and uh and they call
1:00:40
him george the greek and he said you know this
1:00:42
is this is all about being a better person he
1:00:44
said i seen people give therapies have nine ten
1:00:47
years clean they talk about how they yelled at
1:00:50
their boss got in a fight with their co -worker
1:00:52
came home screaming at their wife kicked the
1:00:55
dog but they didn't gamble it's like you know
1:00:58
you can't so i always say to people there's there's
1:01:02
not gambling And then there's recovery. And you
1:01:05
need both for it to work. I've seen many people
1:01:08
that haven't gambled but are still acting out,
1:01:10
still self -destructing. You got to have both
1:01:13
for it to work at its best. 100%. Really well
1:01:17
said there, Jimmy. Okay, last question is kind
1:01:20
of a tradition question that I ask. Two -part
1:01:22
question for you. If your wife were to listen
1:01:25
to this podcast today, is there anything you
1:01:27
would like to tell her or anything you'd like
1:01:29
for her to know? Interesting question. I mean,
1:01:33
my wife and I, you know, we've gone through a
1:01:36
lot. I put her through hell and back and she
1:01:39
still stayed by my side through all of this and
1:01:41
it hasn't been easy by any means. And we still
1:01:45
go through our rough patches and I'm still cleaning
1:01:48
up the mess that I made over the span of several
1:01:51
years. You know, one thing that's really important
1:01:53
to note is that the amount of time it can take
1:01:56
to ruin a relationship or ruin the trust or respect.
1:02:01
is so much smaller than it takes to rebuild it,
1:02:05
right? And so I just want my wife to know she's
1:02:09
listening to this, that I love her unconditionally
1:02:12
and I respect her so much more than she realizes
1:02:17
because she stuck by my side because she went
1:02:21
through all of the turmoil that I put her through
1:02:24
and is still here today helping me whether she
1:02:27
realizes it or not. fight this fight and i don't
1:02:30
think i could be able to do that without somebody
1:02:32
by my side and so i'm more grateful to her than
1:02:36
she realizes especially because you know we do
1:02:38
bump heads and we do get into these fights but
1:02:41
when all is said and done like you know i wouldn't
1:02:43
be here today if it wasn't for her that's great
1:02:47
um last question what about uh your parents your
1:02:51
father mother same sentiment man like i wouldn't
1:02:55
be here today without them They really helped
1:02:58
save my life in more ways than they realize.
1:03:01
And they've also been like my biggest supporters
1:03:04
since starting Collectors MD. My mom is like my
1:03:08
biggest cheerleader. My dad is my best friend
1:03:10
and advisor. And they've seen me through this.
1:03:14
They've seen me at my worst. They've seen me
1:03:17
at my best. They've seen me everywhere in between.
1:03:19
And so I'm eternally grateful to them. And I
1:03:22
just know that that unconditional love and support.
1:03:25
is a huge reason why I'm here having this conversation
1:03:28
today. Awesome. Both my parents have recently
1:03:32
passed, and every year when my clean time would
1:03:36
come, I would just let them know that, A, obviously
1:03:39
how much I love them and how much they played
1:03:41
a part in saving my life. And I know that there's
1:03:45
probably so many times a parent feels like, well,
1:03:47
I wish I could have helped you more. But at the
1:03:50
end of the day, I think just being there, being
1:03:52
present. just being supportive as much as you
1:03:54
can was a part of the process of saving my life.
1:03:58
You know, instead of like totally kicking me
1:04:00
to the curb or kicking me to the streets, by
1:04:03
them not doing that was a part of that saving
1:04:05
my life process. So, you know, I'm glad that
1:04:08
you were able to have that and myself too. Yeah,
1:04:11
it's a beautiful sentiment, Jimmy, and I'm so
1:04:13
sorry for your loss. Parents are so incredibly
1:04:16
important, especially when it comes to, you know,
1:04:19
a lot of the things that we face. Having that
1:04:22
support system in some capacity, even if it's
1:04:25
just like an accountability buddy or a sponsor
1:04:27
that you can call, just know for anybody listening,
1:04:30
we can't heal in isolation. We have to heal in
1:04:33
group. And so that's why peer support, community,
1:04:37
those are everything when it comes to recovery.
1:04:39
So I'm always here as a resource for anybody
1:04:42
that wants to reach out. I do my best to get
1:04:44
to everybody who DMs us, sends us emails. I'm
1:04:48
pretty forward -facing when it comes to those
1:04:50
things. So I'll make sure to provide you with
1:04:52
all my contact info so people can reach out if
1:04:54
they'd like. Yeah, thanks a lot. And I'm sure,
1:04:56
unfortunately, I'm sure I'll be... you know,
1:05:00
presented with somebody that has a issue. So
1:05:03
I'm glad I have that resource now. And I'm super
1:05:06
grateful for this conversation. I'm grateful
1:05:08
for Sal being able to kind of connect us today
1:05:13
and through Sam, who's been amazing for me with
1:05:15
his support. And yeah, I can't thank you enough.
1:05:18
And I'm looking forward to building a more of
1:05:21
a friendship with you and seeing you in Nashville.
1:05:24
Absolutely, Jimmy. I'm looking forward to seeing
1:05:26
you in person in a month. It's crazy. We're a
1:05:28
month away. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Well, thanks
1:05:30
a lot, man. I appreciate it. And let's stay in
1:05:32
touch. Absolutely. Talk to you soon.