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Chris Fabry Live - In the Studio with Jon Lind · The Word On Demand

• 0:05
  S1: Welcome to a Monday edition of Chris Fabry Live. The
• 0:08
  S1: program from the heart to the heart for the heart,
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  S1: you are about to hear an organic, unrehearsed, unscripted conversation
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  S1: with a young man who writes music and sings from
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  S1: his heart. John Lind is his name. And if you
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  S1: are in some kind of pain today in your life situation,
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  S1: if you feel like you have knocked on heaven's door
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  S1: until your knuckles bleed and you haven't gotten a response,
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  S1: you need to hear one of the songs that he
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  S1: is going to sing in the studio today. The name
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  S1: of the program is Chris Fabry Live online, Chris fabry.org. However,
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  S1: this conversation is recorded. John was on the campus of
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  S1: Moody Bible Institute recently and we sat down and I
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  S1: hope you enjoyed the conversation and the music today at
• 0:52
  S1: the Radio Backyard Fence. A thank you to our team,
• 0:55
  S1: which today consists of Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical.
• 0:58
  S1: Trisha's here. Lisa's here, and there are some members of
• 1:02
  S1: the team that are really important, and you can be
• 1:04
  S1: a part of our back fence friend or partner's coterie.
• 1:08
  S1: Now there's a good word for the day. Coterie. COTERIE.
• 1:12
  S1: You don't use that very much. But a coterie is
• 1:14
  S1: an intimate and often exclusive group of persons with a
• 1:18
  S1: unifying common interest or purpose. I looked it up so
• 1:22
  S1: I know the only thing wrong with that definition is
• 1:25
  S1: the exclusive part. Anybody can be a back fence friend
• 1:28
  S1: or a partner if you support what we do with
• 1:31
  S1: a gift. And when I saw Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. S
• 1:34
  S1: beautiful advent devotional, I knew I wanted to send it
• 1:38
  S1: to my coterie. It's titled Consider Jesus Meditations on the
• 1:43
  S1: Person and Work of Christ. Why are you offering it
• 1:46
  S1: in October, Chris? Well, I'll tell you why, because it
• 1:48
  S1: can take some time between when you call and give
• 1:50
  S1: a gift, when you give. We get the mail to you.
• 1:53
  S1: So do do that today. Don't delay. Let me send
• 1:56
  S1: you a copy your way. Call 86695 Fabry. Give a
• 2:01
  S1: gift of any size and we'll send you. Consider Jesus
• 2:05
  S1: by Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth. (866) 953-2279. Or just go to the
• 2:11
  S1: website chris.org. Scroll down. You'll see how to to support
• 2:15
  S1: us right there. And thank you for what you do
• 2:17
  S1: for us as team members in the coterie of Chris
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  S1: Fabry live at the Radio Backyard Fence. John Lind is
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  S1: a Christian artist and a songwriter who lives in Tennessee
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  S1: with his wife. His heart is to write songs that
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  S1: bring hope to those who feel hopeless, and remind people
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  S1: that God can take the most broken parts of our
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  S1: stories and turn them into something beautiful. He leads a
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  S1: growing live stream ministry on TikTok and YouTube, where he
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  S1: regularly shares worship and encouragement with people around the world.
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  S1: He has EPs, he has singles out, and when I
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  S1: heard he's going to be at Moody, I said, Bring
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  S1: John in here and put him in the chair and
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  S1: bring his guitar and let's, let's do something good at
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  S1: the back fence. So, John, welcome to the program. How
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  S1: you doing today?
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  S2: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Chris.
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  S1: First of all, what kind of guitar are you carrying
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  S1: around with you?
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  S2: Uh, yeah. Today, uh, I've got well, first off, I'm
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  S2: left handed, so I'm kind of a unicorn in that sense. Um,
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  S2: but today I've got a left handed Martin 00028 from 2016.
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  S1: Wow.
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  S2: Yeah.
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  S1: 000 20. Now, did somebody who gave you that or
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  S1: did you buy it yourself?
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  S2: Yeah. So this one I bought, but it's probably one
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  S2: of the only guitars that I've bought myself. Um, man,
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  S2: the Lord has provided a lot of awesome instruments for
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  S2: me to be able to play. But I bought this
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  S2: one from a buddy of mine down in Atlanta, and
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  S2: it was just a great deal and I couldn't pass
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  S2: it up. Okay.
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  S1: The strings that you use on that, do you like
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  S1: the light strings? The heavy strings? What do you put on?
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  S2: Oh, man, I think I, I go back and forth
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  S2: in between, in between the, uh, the lights and the mediums.
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  S2: It just kind of depends. I think right now I've got,
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  S2: I've got like the custom lights on maybe from elixir. Okay. Yeah.
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  S1: There you go. Okay. Yeah. Now, now I know. Yeah.
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  S1: Now I know a whole lot more than I really
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  S1: need to know, but it's, it's fun to hear. When
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  S1: you were a kid, what did you want to do?
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  S1: Did you want to play music when you were a kid?
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  S2: Um, you know, when I was a kid, I think, uh, I,
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  S2: I always kind of enjoyed music, but it was one
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  S2: of those things where it didn't feel like a realistic
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  S2: career choice. Um, and so naturally I wanted to be
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  S2: something that was so much easier, which was an NFL
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  S2: football player. You know, um, I very quickly realized that
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  S2: I was challenged in the height department. Uh, and so
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  S2: that wasn't going to be a reality. And, um, you know,
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  S2: I grew up in the church, I grew up around
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  S2: music and it was just kind of something that I
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  S2: always loved. Um, but I didn't realize that it could
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  S2: be a thing that I was actually good at, uh,
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  S2: until high school, probably. Okay.
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  S1: How did you figure it out? Or did some music
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  S1: teacher tell you?
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  S2: Well, I would always, like, sing in the shower and stuff,
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  S2: which was great. You know, everybody, everybody is a is
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  S2: an incredible shower singer. Um, but I think it was
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  S2: like my, my eighth grade year or my freshman year
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  S2: of high school. Um, I was in a, I was
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  S2: in a Photoshop class, I think, and I went to
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  S2: the bathroom and I was singing in the bathroom and
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  S2: one of my friends came in and heard me singing
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  S2: in the bathroom. And he was like, dude, you can
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  S2: sing really well. And I was like, I was like, no, no,
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  S2: I'm not. I'm not good. Like, don't tell anybody because
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  S2: it wasn't cool to like sing back when I was
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  S2: in school and he was like, I won't tell anybody.
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  S2: And then I went back into the class and he
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  S2: had gone back in before me and he had told everybody.
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  S2: And so the teacher made me stand up in front
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  S2: of the whole class and sing the a cappella. And
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  S2: do you.
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  S1: Remember what you sang?
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  S2: Yeah, I sang, um, it was like. I think it
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  S2: was feeling good. Um, you know, the birds flying high.
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  S2: You know how I feel. And, uh, that was the
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  S2: first moment that I realized, oh, I might be halfway
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  S2: decent at this because I sang. And then I looked
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  S2: around the room and everybody just had their mouths open, like,
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  S2: what just happened? You know? Um, so yeah.
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  S1: I, I love that story. And it was, isn't it
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  S1: interesting that sometimes it takes somebody else to call that
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  S1: out from you, that you can't see it yourself and
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  S1: somebody else sees it and then you kind of step
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  S1: into it.
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  S2: Yeah. That's been a that's been a reoccurring theme throughout
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  S2: my life. I mean, I wouldn't be where I am
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  S2: today if it hadn't have hadn't been for multiple different
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  S2: people in different, uh, you know, places in my life
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  S2: telling me to step out. Um, because they saw something
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  S2: that I didn't, I didn't see in myself, you know,
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  S2: so that that was just one of the first times. Yes.
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  S1: Um, first instrument I got to go. Did you, did
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  S1: you start playing guitar when you were young?
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  S2: Um, my first instrument was, I think I first started
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  S2: trying to learn guitar. Um, but I started learning right handed. Uh,
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  S2: and I took lessons with my mom for a little
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  S2: bit and we were going to learn together. Uh, but
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  S2: that didn't last. I did not love it. And I
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  S2: think it was because I'm left handed and I kept
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  S2: trying to learn right handed. So I quit that. And
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  S2: then I did take piano for like three years when
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  S2: I was a kid. And, uh, that was back when
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  S2: that wasn't cool. So like, my parents were making me
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  S2: do it. So as soon as I was able to quit,
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  S2: I quit. And I wish I wouldn't have. Um, so
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  S2: technically piano is my is my first instrument.
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  S1: So listen, children, if you are listening and you're taking
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  S1: piano lessons, stick with it. It'll pay off later on. Musically.
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  S2: Yeah. You never know. You might, you might end up
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  S2: having a career in music and then you'll be sitting
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  S2: there wishing, oh, you know, maybe my parents knew something
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  S2: that I didn't. Yeah.
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  S1: Okay. So I want to have you describe this song
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  S1: that you're going to play, and then we'll play it in,
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  S1: in the next segment. But there's, there's something going on.
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  S1: When I first heard this, I said, this is the
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  S1: one song that if, if I John says, I'm not
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  S1: going to sing anything, I will push him up against
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  S1: the wall and have him sing, play, pray it. Anyway,
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  S1: tell me where this came from.
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  S2: Yeah. Um, so this is probably one of the most
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  S2: personal songs that I've ever written. Um, and, and it
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  S2: kind of came from two really big things in my life.
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  S2: The first thing is, uh, 3 or 4 months before
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  S2: I wrote this song, Um, we had found out that
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  S2: my mom was diagnosed with stage three Non-hodgkins lymphoma lymphoma. And, um,
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  S2: that was kind of one of the first times in,
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  S2: in our lives as a family that, um, something like
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  S2: health wise had hit us that hard. Um, and so
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  S2: that was one big piece of it. Um, another piece
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  S2: of it, which by the way, my, now my, my
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  S2: mom is cancer free and wow, praise the Lord. Like
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  S2: I got to see the Lord completely heal her firsthand. Um,
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  S2: and so when I sing this song, I get to
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  S2: sing it from, you know, partially being through, um, the valley. Uh,
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  S2: but the second thing that we wrote this with this
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  S2: song about, um, is my wife and I have been
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  S2: walking through infertility, um, for probably the last four, four
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  S2: and a half years. We've been married a little over
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  S2: six and, uh, and yeah, we've been walking through infertility
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  S2: and it's been really hard. I feel like it's a
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  S2: thing that not a lot of people talk about. I
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  S2: think there's a lot of I think there's a lot
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  S2: of shame around it and there's a lot of, um,
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  S2: I think there's a lot of people that feel alone like, um,
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  S2: you know, so they don't talk about it because they
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  S2: feel like they're the only ones that are experiencing it. And, uh,
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  S2: and it just took me getting just very real with
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  S2: the co-writers in the room. And, um, and we ended
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  S2: up writing this song really for me to just hold
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  S2: on to in the midst of what we were walking through, which,
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  S2: you know, oftentimes that's what I do with songwriting is,
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  S2: you know, they start as just songs to sing either
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  S2: to the Lord or sing over myself. And, um, this
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  S2: was one of those and, uh, and yeah, the Lord
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  S2: has now done so much more than I could have
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  S2: ever asked, thought, or imagined with this song. And, um,
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  S2: it's really just a. An anthem for people to grab
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  S2: on to. And it doesn't just have to be walking
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  S2: through infertility. Like whatever that mountain, that mountain is in
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  S2: your life that you feel like just won't move. That
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  S2: prayer that you have prayed a thousand times over and
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  S2: over and over again that you just feel like, man,
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  S2: am I just praying this in vain? Like, does he,
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  S2: does he even hear me? You know, um, it really, it,
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  S2: it really has just become an anthem, I think for,
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  S2: for people to latch on to and, um, you know,
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  S2: to trust and keep praying even in the hardest of
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  S2: circumstances that life has to, um, that life throws our way,
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  S2: you know?
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  S1: So isn't it interesting how music can do that? Can,
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  S1: can go around the back door of the heart and
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  S1: can you sing this? You know, you sing this to God,
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  S1: you sing this to other people, but you sing it
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  S1: to yourself as well. And there's I guarantee you, there
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  S1: is somebody who needs to hear this song. And if
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  S1: it's you, pray it anyway is coming up. John Lind
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  S1: is with us. We're not live today. Don't call us,
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  S1: but stay with us. You're going to hear that song
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  S1: coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio.
• 12:19
  S3: I've said amen a thousand times, but still left wondering
• 12:24
  S3: why my faith feels like a losing fight. And I'd
• 12:30
  S3: be lying if I said I didn't feel foolish. Asking
• 12:36
  S3: what you do. Cause this mountain still needs moving. But
• 12:43
  S3: I'm still crying out to heaven. Can you hear me?
• 12:49
  S3: I'm still knocking at that door till my knuckles bleed.
• 12:55
  S3: I'm still holding on. My hope's not gone. I know
• 13:00
  S3: you can make a way. Your will be done is
• 13:04
  S3: the hardest thing to pray. But I pray it anyway.
• 13:11
  S3: Yes I will, I'll pray anyway. We've prayed so hard
• 13:24
  S3: for two pink lines. The scans to come back clear.
• 13:29
  S3: We thought this time might be the time. But I'm
• 13:34
  S3: still waiting. Won't give up. Because your faithful won't stop now.
• 13:40
  S3: Because you're able, Able, you're able to turn it all around.
• 13:47
  S3: I'm still crying out to heaven. Can you hear me?
• 13:54
  S3: I'm still knocking at that door till my knuckles bleed.
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  S3: I'm still holding on. My hope's not gone. I know
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  S3: you'll make a way. Your will be done. It's the
• 14:09
  S3: hardest thing to pray. But I pray anyway. Yes I will,
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  S3: I'll pray anyway. Yes. When they say that it can't
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  S3: be done. I'll pray it anyway. Pray it anyway. In
• 14:34
  S3: the middle of a broken heart. I'll pray it anyway.
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  S3: Pray it anyway. When I feel it. When I don't,
• 14:44
  S3: I'll pray it anyway. Pray it anyway. When it looks
• 14:48
  S3: like all this, Lord, pray it anyway. I'm still crying.
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  S3: I'll having any. Me. I'm still knocking at that door
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  S3: till my knuckles bleed. I'm still holding on. My hopes
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  S3: not gone. I know you can make a way. Your
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  S3: will be done. Is the hardest thing to pray. When
• 15:20
  S3: I'm on my knees and it feels like nothing's changed.
• 15:25
  S3: I'll pray it anyway. Yes I will, I'll pray anyway.
• 15:39
  S3: I'll pray anyway.
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  S1: His name is John Lind LIND and you've just heard.
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  S1: Pray it anyway. And as I said, there's somebody listening
• 15:53
  S1: right now who's going to go to the website because
• 15:55
  S1: you want to hear that again, you want to see
• 15:56
  S1: the music video and you can. We've got links@kris.org. Here's
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  S1: what music does though, John. It and poetry does this.
• 16:05
  S1: It encapsulates, it synthesizes it boils things down. And when
• 16:11
  S1: you said the words two pink lines, that's all you
• 16:14
  S1: needed to hear. Yeah. Because there are people who are
• 16:18
  S1: listening right now is like, I know exactly what you're saying.
• 16:20
  S1: I'm looking for those two pink lines. That is, that
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  S1: is what I'm hoping for. And that is what I'm
• 16:25
  S1: praying for. But even more than that, if coming through
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  S1: the song is what we need is for the presence
• 16:34
  S1: of God to be in the middle of all of that.
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  S1: And I'm sensing that that for the last six years
• 16:41
  S1: you've gone through that. You've really sensed that.
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  S2: Yeah. I think, um, the longer that I go through that,
• 16:49
  S2: we walk through this, um, the more I realized that like,
• 16:53
  S2: you know, Chris, even if, even if at the end
• 16:56
  S2: of the day we don't get pregnant, he's still kind
• 17:00
  S2: and he's still close and he's been kind and he's
• 17:03
  S2: been close, even even walking through the nose and the
• 17:08
  S2: not yet, you know, like the times that, that I've
• 17:14
  S2: been sitting on my bathroom floor in tears because we can't,
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  S2: we can't do this thing that seems so easy for
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  S2: everybody else to do. And he's been right there sitting
• 17:26
  S2: with me every time. And so I think, I think
• 17:30
  S2: for me, like, that's the encouragement is that even even
• 17:34
  S2: in the midst, he's right there with you and he's,
• 17:38
  S2: holding you close and he and he. And for those
• 17:42
  S2: moments where you feel like you can't keep going, like
• 17:45
  S2: he's he's right there holding you and carrying you through.
• 17:48
  S2: You know.
• 17:51
  S1: Just recently we did a program on, on grief and
• 17:54
  S1: the importance of staying there and not rushing past it
• 17:59
  S1: has it. And I wonder if you and your wife's name,
• 18:02
  S1: I'm going to get this right. I wrote it out phonetically.
• 18:05
  S2: Gabrielle, you nailed it. There you go. You got it.
• 18:09
  S4: That's the only time I got to do it. Right.
• 18:10
  S4: But Aubrey l.
• 18:12
  S1: Um, and so have you. Is the grief that you
• 18:16
  S1: experience different from hers?
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  S2: You know, I think she's probably experiencing it on on
• 18:22
  S2: even a greater level. Um, that that I can't even
• 18:27
  S2: comprehend just because, you know, she, she's going to be
• 18:30
  S2: the one that is going to, you know, be carrying
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  S2: our kids when, when she does get pregnant. I think
• 18:37
  S2: for men a lot of times in infertility, and I
• 18:39
  S2: don't want to speak for everybody, but I know for me, um,
• 18:42
  S2: the thing that, that I have really struggled with a
• 18:45
  S2: lot is I'm a fixer, right? And I want to,
• 18:48
  S2: I want to fix things as quickly and efficiently as
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  S2: I can. And this feels like something that I can't
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  S2: fix for my wife. So I think part of my
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  S2: grief is trying to figure out, okay, how do I
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  S2: love my wife well, through this and how do I
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  S2: be present when when it feels like, um, I'm struggling
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  S2: with the same thing, you know? But, you know, like,
• 19:10
  S2: it's funny, like on the flight here, one of my
• 19:13
  S2: good buddies that I write a lot of songs with,
• 19:15
  S2: he texted me and he just, he was like, man,
• 19:18
  S2: how have you, how have you really been doing with
• 19:20
  S2: the infertility stuff? And I just was like, man, I've
• 19:24
  S2: really been struggling with it lately the last couple of weeks,
• 19:27
  S2: you know, and I don't know why that is, but
• 19:30
  S2: it kind of comes in waves. You know, sometimes it's
• 19:32
  S2: it's easier to accept and it's easier to be like, yeah, like,
• 19:36
  S2: you know, the Lord is going to do it when
• 19:38
  S2: he wants to do it. But then there's some days
• 19:40
  S2: where it feels like I'm banging on the door with
• 19:42
  S2: my knuckles bleeding, you know.
• 19:44
  S4: That's another lie.
• 19:45
  S2: And so today, today is one of those days, I'll
• 19:47
  S2: be honest. But you know what? He's kind and he's close.
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  S1: Well, and and being a fixer. I raised my hand
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  S1: to that one, too. Mhm. I want to rush past it.
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  S1: I want to get I want to get to a
• 20:00
  S1: place of comfortability and comfort. And that's why I think
• 20:04
  S1: a lot of people who haven't been through infertility will
• 20:07
  S1: try to say something to make you feel better. Yeah.
• 20:11
  S1: And it comes off as insensitive. And the first thing
• 20:13
  S1: that comes to my mind is, well, you can always adopt,
• 20:17
  S1: you know.
• 20:17
  S2: Yeah.
• 20:18
  S1: As if that takes away the pain and the grief
• 20:21
  S1: that you're walking through. And it doesn't, does it?
• 20:24
  S2: Yeah. No, it's funny, my wife and I were just
• 20:26
  S2: having this conversation actually. And I think, I think one
• 20:30
  S2: thing that we've had to just unpack together is we
• 20:34
  S2: have to look at, um, you know, people's intention. And
• 20:38
  S2: I think like, there are a lot of times that
• 20:40
  S2: people will say things that they think is helping, you know,
• 20:42
  S2: their intention is to, to help. Um, and so I,
• 20:48
  S2: you know, I just try and give people grace because
• 20:50
  S2: I think people maybe don't know how to talk about
• 20:53
  S2: it sometimes, you know, those comments of like, well, just adopt,
• 20:57
  S2: maybe God's closing the door here. Just adopt or, or well,
• 21:01
  S2: have you tried this? Have you tried that? And it's,
• 21:03
  S2: and it's just like, yeah, like we've tried just about everything. And,
• 21:09
  S2: you know, even before we got married, we had talked
• 21:11
  S2: about like really feeling like the Lord had put adoption
• 21:15
  S2: on both of our hearts. But one of the things
• 21:17
  S2: that I've been walking through lately is like, okay, well,
• 21:21
  S2: this is something that the Lord has put on both
• 21:23
  S2: of our hearts, but is this something that he's put
• 21:27
  S2: on our hearts? Because we're not going to be able
• 21:29
  S2: to have our own biological children or like, so I'm
• 21:33
  S2: actively unpacking that and praying through that right now of
• 21:37
  S2: just like what that looks like in our story and
• 21:40
  S2: in our lives. And, um, but I think sitting in
• 21:44
  S2: the tension is important, like.
• 21:46
  S1: And the mystery. Yeah. And the not knowing and the,
• 21:50
  S1: you know, we rush to the outcome and you're in
• 21:53
  S1: the process and you gotta just like in writing songs,
• 21:56
  S1: you got to go through the process to get what
• 21:59
  S1: it is to mine this. Right.
• 22:01
  S2: Yeah. We don't, we don't like sitting in the uncomfortability
• 22:04
  S2: and we don't like sitting in the tension. I mean,
• 22:07
  S2: some of the, some of the best songs that I've
• 22:09
  S2: been a part of writing have come from being in a,
• 22:12
  S2: in a writing room where we'll sit there and we'll have,
• 22:15
  S2: you know, ten, 15 minutes of just silence and tension.
• 22:21
  S2: But I feel like if you rush through the tension
• 22:24
  S2: and you rush and you rush through sitting in the tension,
• 22:27
  S2: like the breakthrough might not hit as much, you know,
• 22:33
  S2: or you might, you might, you might just scratch the
• 22:36
  S2: surface with with the breakthrough. Whereas when you sit in
• 22:40
  S2: the tension and you let the Lord do his work
• 22:43
  S2: on you in the tension like that makes the breakthrough,
• 22:47
  S2: the breakthrough that much sweeter, you know? Um, and so
• 22:50
  S2: I think that's, that's what we're just in right now
• 22:53
  S2: is we're in the tension and we're, I'm not afraid
• 22:56
  S2: of it. Uh, I, I've, I've, I've learned to just
• 23:00
  S2: let the Lord just work on me in the tension with,
• 23:04
  S2: with the infertility stuff. So yeah, I just.
• 23:06
  S1: Somebody needed to hear that today. Yeah. Somebody in the
• 23:09
  S1: middle of the tension, you know, because and if you
• 23:11
  S1: look at the, if you look at the scriptures and
• 23:13
  S1: all the people that populate the Bible. How does God
• 23:17
  S1: give them momentum? It is that you've got to have
• 23:20
  S1: Goliath out there, you know, in order for David to
• 23:23
  S1: show up, you know. Yeah. Uh, Saul, after David, you
• 23:27
  S1: got to have the all of these things that are
• 23:28
  S1: going on, both old and New Testament. You look at Paul,
• 23:32
  S1: he's got imprisoned. He's he's has to be thinking, why
• 23:36
  S1: don't God, why did you what have you got me
• 23:38
  S1: here chained here to this, you know, guard. Why why
• 23:42
  S1: can't I? Well, I can write letters. Right. And look
• 23:45
  S1: at look at what happened with those. So they lived
• 23:48
  S1: in the middle of the tension and lived fully. That's
• 23:51
  S1: what we're talking about here today.
• 23:53
  S2: Uh, yeah. And I think a part of the living
• 23:55
  S2: fully like I just want to encourage, like any couples
• 23:58
  S2: that are walking through infertility right now, and you're having
• 24:01
  S2: a hard time trusting that it's even going to happen.
• 24:05
  S2: Like there are things that you can do to like
• 24:08
  S2: actively wait in the, in the tension. And this is
• 24:10
  S2: something that I think my wife does really well. Um, my, my,
• 24:16
  S2: my wife just fully believes that we're going to have
• 24:19
  S2: our own children. And I would like to say that
• 24:21
  S2: I do, but there are days that I doubt. But
• 24:24
  S2: my wife, one of the things that she does, and
• 24:27
  S2: I hope she's okay with me sharing this, but, uh,
• 24:29
  S2: one of the things that my wife does is she
• 24:32
  S2: collects vintage brass animals because she wants to have them
• 24:38
  S2: in a nursery someday. And that's the only reason she
• 24:43
  S2: collects them. She collects them because she believes, without a
• 24:48
  S2: shadow of a doubt, that we're going to have our
• 24:49
  S2: own children and that we're going to have a nursery to, to,
• 24:53
  S2: to fill and to, to put those in someday. And so,
• 24:58
  S2: you know, I look at that as like, man, she's
• 25:00
  S2: actively stepping out in faith being like, I'm going to
• 25:04
  S2: do something that might feel crazy, but it's because I
• 25:08
  S2: believe that this is going to happen. And so, you know,
• 25:11
  S2: I just want to encourage maybe you're, maybe you're out
• 25:13
  S2: there and you feel like this is never going to happen.
• 25:17
  S2: Like maybe start doing something that that seems crazy like that,
• 25:22
  S2: but it shows faith, you know, and, um, I think
• 25:26
  S2: that's something that she does that really challenges me. Um,
• 25:30
  S2: you know, to, to keep hoping and keep, keep really
• 25:34
  S2: believing that this is going to happen.
• 25:36
  S1: That's John Lind. If you go to the website, Chris
• 25:39
  S1: Fabry live.org, we have links for you right there where
• 25:42
  S1: you can hear that song again. Pray it. Anyway, we
• 25:45
  S1: got more songs for him. Our program is recorded, but
• 25:49
  S1: John stopped by the studio. He's got his guitar, and
• 25:52
  S1: we're going to hear more straight ahead on Moody Radio.
• 26:04
  S5: This is Chris Fabry.
• 26:05
  S1: Live on Moody Radio. Thanks a lot for joining us today.
• 26:08
  S1: Our program is recorded because John Lind came into the
• 26:11
  S1: studio and we are having a conversation, an unscripted, organic
• 26:16
  S1: conversation about his music. You heard the song Pray It anyway,
• 26:20
  S1: just a few minutes ago. And so he has his Martin.
• 26:24
  S1: What was the name of that guitar again?
• 26:26
  S2: Yeah. Martin. 000. 28000.
• 26:28
  S1: 28. I love it. Uh, just to just to be
• 26:32
  S1: able to see that here on the on the screen
• 26:34
  S1: and to be able to, to, to look at how
• 26:36
  S1: bright that is, how shiny that is and how good
• 26:39
  S1: sounding it is. Makes me, uh, makes me want to
• 26:42
  S1: have you sing another song. There's one called God, Grace
• 26:45
  S1: and forgiveness. Tell me about this one.
• 26:47
  S2: This song came from, um, my parents were out visiting
• 26:51
  S2: us in Nashville, and my dad's childhood pastor, I guess,
• 26:56
  S2: lives in the Nashville area now. And so my dad
• 27:00
  S2: was like, I want to get coffee with him. And
• 27:01
  S2: I was like, okay, great, let's do it. Let's, let's
• 27:04
  S2: work it into our day. And man, I'm so glad
• 27:06
  S2: that we did. We, we ended up getting coffee with him.
• 27:09
  S2: And it's just, it's wise, wise old man that I knew.
• 27:13
  S2: I was like, all right, this is my time to
• 27:15
  S2: just sit and listen. And so I sat and I
• 27:18
  S2: listened and he talked about his late wife, um, that, uh,
• 27:23
  S2: that had passed away. and, and, uh, how they almost
• 27:27
  S2: made it to 65 years. And I just got to
• 27:29
  S2: sit there and listen to how, um, how he talked
• 27:32
  S2: about her and how much he missed her and, and
• 27:36
  S2: I don't know why, but at the end of our conversation,
• 27:38
  S2: I just asked him, I said, you know, for somebody
• 27:41
  S2: that was married almost 65 years, what's one piece of
• 27:44
  S2: advice that you would give me so that I can
• 27:49
  S2: make it that long with my wife? And he looked
• 27:51
  S2: at me and he said, well, when my wife was
• 27:53
  S2: still alive, we said the same thing. Anytime anybody would
• 27:57
  S2: ask us for marriage advice. And and he looked at
• 28:00
  S2: me and he said, God, grace and forgiveness in that order. And, uh,
• 28:05
  S2: you know, me being a songwriter, I pulled out my
• 28:07
  S2: notes app and I was, I was like, that's a title.
• 28:10
  S2: That's a song title. And, uh, and so I went
• 28:12
  S2: home and I wrote verse one and chorus and, uh,
• 28:16
  S2: and then I finished it with a couple of friends
• 28:19
  S2: of mine and, uh, I posted a video of me
• 28:22
  S2: just singing it acoustic on Facebook, and I think I
• 28:26
  S2: posted it at like seven in the morning and by
• 28:28
  S2: noon it was over a million views. And, uh, and
• 28:31
  S2: then every video that I posted on that song for
• 28:35
  S2: the following week, uh, did just about a million or
• 28:38
  S2: over a million views. Wow. So I texted my label
• 28:42
  S2: and I was like, hey, so we're cutting this song, right?
• 28:47
  S2: And they were like, yes. So, uh, so yeah, this
• 28:50
  S2: is God grace and forgiveness. It's just a song from
• 28:52
  S2: that story.
• 28:53
  S1: All right. God, grace and forgiveness. This is John Lindh.
• 28:58
  S3: SAT down yesterday with an old man. And he told
• 29:05
  S3: stories of the good old days with his best friend.
• 29:12
  S3: She was the joy of his life. And they almost
• 29:17
  S3: made it 65. Said he'd give anything just to have
• 29:23
  S3: her back. When I ask how to have a love
• 29:30
  S3: like that. He said, you need God right at the center.
• 29:38
  S3: He's gonna hold you both together. You need grace to
• 29:43
  S3: replace any record of wrong. You need forgiveness to look
• 29:52
  S3: past the worst and see the best. If you're gonna
• 29:56
  S3: get through whatever you two are up against, you need
• 30:04
  S3: God's grace and forgiveness. There's gonna be days you think
• 30:13
  S3: that it ain't worth fighting anymore. There's gonna be times
• 30:19
  S3: you feel it's easier to walk right out the door.
• 30:26
  S3: But giving up won't fix a thing. Just hold on
• 30:31
  S3: to this court of three. You need God right at
• 30:38
  S3: the center. He's gonna hold you both together. You need
• 30:44
  S3: Grace to replace any record of wrong. You need forgiveness
• 30:53
  S3: to look past the worst and see the best. If
• 30:58
  S3: you're gonna get through whatever you two were up against.
• 31:05
  S3: You need God, grace and forgiveness. We've got a once
• 31:15
  S3: in a lifetime kind of love. I'm gonna fight for
• 31:23
  S3: us till our days are done. We can do it
• 31:28
  S3: all by ourselves. You and I just need a little help.
• 31:34
  S3: We need God right at the center. He's gonna hold
• 31:39
  S3: us both together. We need grace to replace any record
• 31:46
  S3: of wrong. We need forgiveness to look past the worst
• 31:54
  S3: and see the best. If we're gonna get through whatever
• 31:59
  S3: life has us up again. We need God's grace and forgiveness.
• 32:11
  S3: We need God's grace and forgiveness. We need God, grace
• 32:22
  S3: and forgiveness.
• 32:26
  S1: John Lind in the studio today on Chris Fabry Live.
• 32:30
  S1: And I, you just we're not airing this live today.
• 32:34
  S1: We're recording this, but I can just sense, John. There's
• 32:38
  S1: somebody who needed is somebody going through a marriage struggle.
• 32:41
  S1: Somebody's going through, you know, pain, heartache, maybe a breakup
• 32:45
  S1: that they're going through. Is there any hope here? And
• 32:48
  S1: that knuckles, you know, banging on the door of heaven. Uh,
• 32:52
  S1: is the same thing here as we were talking about
• 32:55
  S1: in the last segment. There's something about your voice, though,
• 32:59
  S1: and I'm glad that person in high school said this
• 33:02
  S1: about you when, uh, was walked into the bathroom and
• 33:05
  S1: heard you singing. There's something about your voice. It's not
• 33:08
  S1: just that you stay on pitch and you can play
• 33:10
  S1: left handed guitar really well. And you got the Martin double, 000. Um,
• 33:15
  S1: there's something about your voice that carries life in it.
• 33:21
  S1: It carries this, this. The pain and the struggle that
• 33:25
  S1: you can hear coming through. I don't know if anybody's
• 33:29
  S1: ever said that to you, have they?
• 33:31
  S2: Yeah. And, and I think, um, I mean, I look
• 33:34
  S2: back to even, you know, my aunt telling me as
• 33:37
  S2: a little kid that, you know, like, you know, I
• 33:41
  S2: don't know, depending on how you feel about anointings, but
• 33:45
  S2: I even look back to my aunt who went to
• 33:47
  S2: Moody and, uh, she would tell me that, like, Jonathan,
• 33:52
  S2: you have an anointing over your life in this area. And, um,
• 33:58
  S2: I don't know, man, I just think, I think that
• 34:00
  S2: the Lord has just given me the ability to connect
• 34:05
  S2: with people, um, on just a real level through my music.
• 34:09
  S2: And that's, that's my goal is to just be real.
• 34:13
  S2: And man, I spent a lot of time wearing a mask.
• 34:15
  S2: I spent a lot of time not being real. And, um,
• 34:19
  S2: and so I think, I think I'm just, I'm over
• 34:22
  S2: that and I'm, and that's, that's a big reason I
• 34:25
  S2: think that people maybe connect with my music in that
• 34:27
  S2: way is I just really want to be real.
• 34:30
  S1: Yes. It's so much easier to put the mask on,
• 34:33
  S1: isn't it? It's so much easier to pretend something and,
• 34:37
  S1: and the mask comes on because you're afraid, right?
• 34:41
  S2: Yeah. I think that it's easier to, to put a
• 34:45
  S2: mask on and it's, and it's easier to be fake.
• 34:47
  S2: It's easier to, you know, it's easier to not do
• 34:50
  S2: the hard work. And, you know, like, even with this,
• 34:54
  S2: with this marriage song, like, you know, doing the hard
• 34:57
  S2: work in marriage, like it's not easy. And, um, and
• 35:02
  S2: so yeah, I think it's a lot of people just
• 35:06
  S2: tend to, to put the mask on, um, and to,
• 35:09
  S2: to hide and, um, but that's, uh, you know, that's
• 35:14
  S2: a that's a quick way to the grave. I feel
• 35:16
  S2: like is is wearing the mask.
• 35:19
  S1: Well, it robs you and robs everybody else because there's
• 35:23
  S1: nobody who can sing and, and write songs and play
• 35:27
  S1: like you. So why rob the world of that uniqueness? Yeah.
• 35:31
  S1: Of John Lind and if you've never heard of John
• 35:35
  S1: Lind before, go to the website, chris.org, Chris fabric.org. You'll
• 35:42
  S1: find out more about him right there. And there's another
• 35:44
  S1: song coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio. Thanks for
• 36:03
  S1: joining us today for Chris Fabry live online at Chris fabry.org.
• 36:08
  S1: Go there. You'll find out more about our new friend.
• 36:10
  S1: I'm meeting him for the first time today here at
• 36:12
  S1: the back fence. His name is John. LIND you can
• 36:17
  S1: find out more about him. The music that he's written
• 36:20
  S1: recorded his wife Gabrielle, and even more. C I'm saying
• 36:24
  S1: it all the time, right? Because you helped me. You're
• 36:26
  S1: crushing it. Yeah. Uh, okay. Final segment. There's a lot
• 36:31
  S1: of things we could talk about here, but when I
• 36:33
  S1: when we brought up that mask that you wear, there's
• 36:36
  S1: another song that came to you. Tell me about this one.
• 36:39
  S2: Yeah. So this song is called Better Man. Um, this
• 36:43
  S2: actually originally was a song that I was writing with
• 36:48
  S2: another artist for another artist, but we wrote the song
• 36:52
  S2: and I just realized, man, this is like my story.
• 36:55
  S2: I connect with this so deeply. Um, and, uh, and
• 36:58
  S2: so I texted him and I was like, hey, man, how,
• 37:01
  S2: how married to this song are you? And he was like,
• 37:04
  S2: pretty married to it. Why? And I was like, oh man, uh,
• 37:08
  S2: I was like, I love this song and I would
• 37:10
  S2: love to have it. And, and I was like, so
• 37:13
  S2: pray about it. And, and he prayed about it and
• 37:16
  S2: he and he was like, yeah, man. Like, I'm totally
• 37:18
  S2: cool with it. So, but it's just a song about,
• 37:22
  S2: you know, dropping the mask and, um, really just a
• 37:26
  S2: prayer to the Lord to like, Lord help me be
• 37:31
  S2: a better man, you know? Um, and so it was
• 37:34
  S2: just a very real, real aspect of my life. I spent,
• 37:38
  S2: I spent a long time, uh, living a double life
• 37:42
  S2: and wearing a mask and, um, and I'm just done
• 37:46
  S2: with it. I'm done with that. So this is kind
• 37:48
  S2: of a song just like, you know, committing, committing that
• 37:52
  S2: to the Lord and just reminding myself of it every
• 37:54
  S2: time I play it.
• 37:56
  S3: I was really good at putting on my man. And
• 38:03
  S3: chasing things I knew wouldn't last. Sin had the key
• 38:12
  S3: to my heart. I thought I was old, but I
• 38:18
  S3: was falling apart. But I've had all I can take.
• 38:29
  S3: Here I am down on my knees. God help me
• 38:39
  S3: to be a better man. No more standing by the
• 38:45
  S3: way side. It's time to go in. God help me
• 38:53
  S3: to surrender all I am. Oh, I need you to
• 39:01
  S3: make me a better man. I wanna be a man
• 39:12
  S3: who looks like you. To know your worth and live
• 39:19
  S3: your truth. Only you can decide this fight. You're the
• 39:30
  S3: only world that'll never run dry. I found all this
• 39:38
  S3: I need. Here I am down on my knees. God
• 39:49
  S3: help me to be a better man. No more standing
• 39:56
  S3: by the way side. It's time to go all in.
• 40:03
  S3: God help me to surrender all I am. I need
• 40:12
  S3: you to make me a better man. God, I'm done
• 40:19
  S3: with the distractions. I'm done with this. I'm done with
• 40:27
  S3: keeping secrets. Oh, it's time to get serious. I'm ready
• 40:34
  S3: to live different. To finally feel the change. To put
• 40:41
  S3: the past behind me. And leave it in the grave.
• 40:47
  S3: Cause I'm a new creation. I live and walk in freedom.
• 40:54
  S3: Bought with the blood of Jesus. I can be a
• 40:59
  S3: better man. God help me To be a better man.
• 41:10
  S3: No more standing by the waste side. It's time to
• 41:15
  S3: go all in. God help me to surrender all I am.
• 41:29
  S3: Thank you, Lord, that I'm a better man. Thank you, Lord,
• 41:41
  S3: that I'm a better man.
• 41:47
  S1: Jon Lind today. Better man. And you heard it recorded
• 41:52
  S1: right here on Chris Fabry live at the radio Backyard fence.
• 41:55
  S1: And I'm so glad you sang that. I think there
• 41:58
  S1: is somebody who needed to hear that. And what I'm
• 42:00
  S1: what I'm hearing coming through is there is a a
• 42:05
  S1: strain of of Christianity or just people in the world saying, okay,
• 42:09
  S1: I'm going to try harder today. I'm going to get better.
• 42:12
  S1: I'm going to strive. I'm going to try to toe
• 42:14
  S1: the line. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to
• 42:16
  S1: make myself a better man. And that every time comes up,
• 42:21
  S1: you know, to the to the end because you come
• 42:23
  S1: to the end of yourself. Yeah. Better man happens when
• 42:27
  S1: and the freedom comes when you totally surrender and you
• 42:31
  S1: allow him control to live in you, to change you
• 42:35
  S1: from the inside out. Right?
• 42:37
  S2: Absolutely. You hit the you hit the nail right on
• 42:41
  S2: the head.
• 42:42
  S1: Yeah. And the secrets that's the other thing is like,
• 42:45
  S1: I can present myself to other people and look a
• 42:48
  S1: certain way and get you to think that this is
• 42:51
  S1: who I am, or I can pretend to be somebody else,
• 42:54
  S1: you know, and rob you and myself of who I
• 42:59
  S1: really am. But it's when the mask comes off and
• 43:04
  S1: the reality is there that God wants. You see that
• 43:07
  S1: again throughout the scriptures that God wants the person. He
• 43:10
  S1: doesn't want you to try to be somebody else for him. Right?
• 43:13
  S2: Yeah. You know, I, I did music independently for years,
• 43:19
  S2: just working so hard to try and try and make it.
• 43:23
  S2: But all the while I was living a completely double
• 43:26
  S2: life and, um, and, and I was not serving the
• 43:31
  S2: Lord at all. Um, but on the outside, it looked
• 43:34
  S2: like I was right. It looked like I had it
• 43:36
  S2: all together. Um, but it wasn't until like, I'll be
• 43:40
  S2: so honest, it wasn't until I really surrendered. It wasn't
• 43:43
  S2: until I took the mask off and I, and I
• 43:46
  S2: started being transparent and open and honest and real that
• 43:50
  S2: the Lord started blessing my music.
• 43:52
  S1: With who? With your wife or with your counselor?
• 43:55
  S2: Just everybody with the Lord. Like with friends, with my wife,
• 43:58
  S2: with everybody. And I don't think that that's a coincidence.
• 44:01
  S2: I think that the Lord was waiting for my heart.
• 44:04
  S2: You know, if I would have had all these opportunities
• 44:06
  S2: that I'm having now, back then, it would have crushed
• 44:09
  S2: me because I wasn't spiritually ready for it. But you know,
• 44:13
  S2: I how kind of the Lord to not let me
• 44:17
  S2: step into something that I wasn't ready for. You know?
• 44:21
  S1: Well, you get back to what you just sang about God,
• 44:24
  S1: grace and forgiveness. Yeah. And, and what I find that
• 44:28
  S1: a lot of times people have a hard time doing
• 44:30
  S1: is receiving that. It's like they want to hold themselves responsible.
• 44:35
  S1: And it's like, this bad thing is going on in
• 44:36
  S1: my life because I did and I didn't, you know,
• 44:39
  S1: confess enough or do whatever. It's like, no, God, God
• 44:42
  S1: has you. He's, he's, he's moving you forward. You receive
• 44:48
  S1: his you let him love you today and see what happens.
• 44:51
  S1: And that's, that's what I hear you saying and singing about.
• 44:54
  S2: Yeah. I think for the longest time, man, I just
• 44:57
  S2: had a misalignment of my sonship. And I think that
• 45:00
  S2: there's a lot of people I say sonship that applies
• 45:02
  S2: to men and women. Everybody like. I think that a
• 45:06
  S2: lot of times we can be like the prodigal son's
• 45:09
  S2: brother who is like the prodigal son comes home and
• 45:13
  S2: then the father throws this big extravagant party. And it's
• 45:16
  S2: so often as believers, we're the prodigal son's brother, where
• 45:20
  S2: it's like, well, we've been here the whole time, like
• 45:22
  S2: serving in your house. And, and, you know, you're not
• 45:24
  S2: throwing us parties. Like we're like, you know, what about me?
• 45:28
  S2: And the reality is, is it's, it's not about what
• 45:31
  S2: you do. It's not about what you have to offer
• 45:34
  S2: to the Lord. It's, it's he loves you because you're
• 45:37
  S2: his son, because you're his daughter. And there's nothing that
• 45:40
  S2: you have to do to earn that love. There's, there's
• 45:44
  S2: nothing that you can do to earn that love. And
• 45:46
  S2: so I think, um, you know, hand in hand with
• 45:49
  S2: dropping the mask came a realignment of my sonship where
• 45:52
  S2: I just realized like, there's nothing that I can do
• 45:57
  S2: to earn this and nothing I can do to separate
• 46:00
  S2: myself from the love of God.
• 46:03
  S1: I am so glad we had the space to do this, John.
• 46:06
  S2: Me too.
• 46:06
  S1: Just to sit down and you said, this is the first,
• 46:09
  S1: you know, interview that you've done like this?
• 46:13
  S2: Yes, 100%.
• 46:15
  S1: And and I think there's more in your future.
• 46:19
  S2: Lord willing.
• 46:20
  S1: These kinds of things. Yeah. Because because you're I want
• 46:23
  S1: to encourage you be who you are and keep writing
• 46:26
  S1: those songs. And you tell your wife, Gabrielle to come
• 46:31
  S1: and see us sometime, too.
• 46:33
  S2: Absolutely I will. Thank you so much, Chris.
• 46:36
  S1: John Lind, we've got information for you. We have links
• 46:40
  S1: at the website. Just go to Chris Fabry live.org and
• 46:43
  S1: you'll find it right there. Chris Fabry live.org. Thanks for listening.
• 46:48
  S1: Our program is production of Moody Radio, a Ministry of
• 46:51
  S1: Moody Bible Institute.