Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Goreham, the perfect antidote to Gore, as the world rejects the ‘climate scare’

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Goreham, the perfect antidote to Gore, as the world rejects the ‘climate scare’ · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

0:07
Mainstream media has betrayed our trust.
0:10
Rather than tell us the whole story about the important issues of the day, they tell us only what they want us to hear.
0:16
Your hosts, Tom Harris and Todd Royal will bring you the other side of the story.
0:27
In the United States, climate change has moved lower on the list of public priorities.
0:32
Inflation, immigration, and global conflicts dominate headlines and voter concerns.
0:38
Families are focused on rent, groceries, and health care, issues that obviously are much more important and much more immediate and personal.
0:47
Energy policy reflects this reality.
0:49
Global instability has pushed leaders to rely more on fossil fuels and to stabilize prices that way, even as renewable projects continue to expand, especially in places like Canada.
1:01
The emphasis is on short-term security rather than long-term planning for climate change that might someday happen.
1:09
Surveys show fewer Americans rank climate change as a top concern compared to economic stability or safety.
1:16
Even when extreme weather events such as wildfires, hurricanes, and heat waves hit, there's only temporary attention before daily concerns take over.
1:25
All this is a very welcome development, of course.
1:28
To help us sleep better at night during the holiday season, we've invited one of our very favorite guests, Steve Gorham back to the show again.
1:36
Steve is executive director of the Climate Science Coalition of America.
1:40
He's also a public speaker, a frequent guest on radio and TV, and an independent column.
1:46
He is the author of four important books on energy, climate, and sustainable development.
1:51
We'll link to them under the podcast on Monday.
1:54
And his latest book is titled Green Breakdown: The Coming Renewable Energy Failure.
2:00
Steve holds a master's degree in electrical engineering from the University of Illinois and an MBA from the University of Chicago.
2:07
So it's a great combination for talking about these topics.
2:10
He also has more than 30 years experience at Fortune 100 and private companies in engineering and executive roles.
2:17
So welcome to the show, Steve.
2:19
You know, this is your eighth appearance in the past three years.
2:23
I think that's more than anybody.
2:25
That's great, Tom.
2:26
Great to join you again in uh Merry Christmas and happy holidays.
2:30
Yes, exactly.
2:31
And and Merry Christmas it is.
2:33
It's not like just happy season or happy good thing, you know, Christmas time is now, so we can say that.
2:41
So the United States is experiencing a severe cold winter season.
2:45
We're hearing, you know, climate change is causing it.
2:48
Is this really true?
2:50
Yeah, it's it is remarkable.
2:52
And and by the way, we've had uh a good old-fashioned window winter here in Chicago.
2:57
We've already had a couple storms, uh, one about 10 inches, which which broke records for snowfall in November.
3:03
10 inches in November.
3:05
Wow.
3:06
Another five-inch storm.
3:08
Uh this last weekend we had zero degree temperatures for two days.
3:13
So a friend of mine has said uh uh you can't wait for fall to be over, right?
3:19
Well, do you ski?
3:21
Well, I have done some snowboarding in the past, but since my son hurt his shoulder snowboarding, we haven't done much of that.
3:27
Oh, you know, we we continue to have these things come out.
3:30
Uh the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration recently referred to an article, and they they were quoted as saying, accelerated Arctic warming, known as Arctic amplification has been evidenced since the 1990s as one of the more robust signs of global warming.
3:47
Currently, certain hypotheses that establish Arctic amplification as a contributor to more severe winter weather, like the record cold Texas temperature in February 2021 have ignited intense debates among climate scientists.
4:02
No, that actually isn't correct.
4:04
Uh uh the February 2021, Texas had a a uh had that big blackout, uh, four and a half million people without electricity for 72 hours, but they're at least uh 10 times in in the last hundred years when the temperatures have gotten down to the same level.
4:23
So, you know, this one little thing here by Noah is distorting things, and it it's ludicrous in many ways.
4:30
The uh, you know, just a couple examples.
4:33
I love this quote quote by Dr.
4:35
David Viner from the Climatic Research Unit in England, and that unit is responsible for a global temperature metric.
4:44
He made this in March 2000.
4:46
He said, quote, children just aren't going to know what snow is.
4:51
Your uh listeners or your viewers can go to a website called the Rutgers University Global Snow Lab, and they use satellite data uh to track snow extent uh in the uh uh northern hemispheres and and North America, and uh they find that uh northern hemisphere snow extent has been increasing for the last 40 years.
5:14
I'll put this graph actually in the write-up for Monday, because this is quite the opposite of what we're hearing from the environmentalists, right?
5:22
Well, it is now there are two other graphs too.
5:24
There's a spring graph, and that shows that the snow extent has been declining in the northern northern hemisphere.
5:30
There's a fall graph that shows it has been increasing.
5:34
And some of this may be because the oceans are a little warmer and they, you know, they uh there's more evaporation and more falls as snow, but the idea that snow is disappearing just as flat out wrong.
5:45
Yeah, because your graph shows winter's snow extent.
5:48
No, and that's where you're getting most of the snow.
5:51
And you were saying you had 10 inches in one fall just recently.
5:54
Holy smokes, or in one month anyway.
5:58
Over a couple days it was, yeah.
6:00
Oh, yeah, that's amazing.
6:01
Yeah, I'm a cross-country skier, so uh actually, you know, when I can't bicycle, you know, there's this in-between season when you can't bicycle and you can't you can't do anything really.
6:11
So I'm just doing push-ups in my basement.
6:14
So I'm actually glad I'm glad to see the snow is here in Ottawa.
6:17
Now, we've talked a lot about COP 30, but one thing we didn't talk about was Gavin Newsom, the governor of California.
6:25
He's all down there boasting about California's green energy efforts.
6:30
But there's a consequence of that, isn't there?
6:33
There's an energy cost consequence.
6:36
Yeah, Governor Newsom went down there, even though the the federal government in the United States did not send any official representatives.
6:43
And he said, quote, two-thirds of uh that California gets two-thirds of its energy sourced from clean energy.
6:50
Uh that statement actually is wrong.
6:53
Uh he should have said electricity, not energy.
6:56
According to the US Department of Energy, California generated just about 65% from uh of its electricity from renewables and nuclear, which is close to two-thirds, but only 15% of California's energy is electricity.
7:12
So if you include if you include transportation and industry, still more than 80% of California's energy consumption still comes from hydrocarbon fuels, coal, oil, and natural gas, primarily petroleum and gas, not much coal anymore.
7:27
But then, you know, he boasts about this and says, you know, we're we're renewable, but then you go look at California, and one of the first things you you note is California's electricity prices have risen the fastest of any state in the nation over the last 16 years.
7:42
They're up 116%.
7:45
In the last five years, they're they're up 58%, again, the fastest of any nation.
7:50
Uh, they also have the number two uh electricity prices in the country, 32 cents per kilowatt hour, and that's roughly double the national average.
7:59
They also have the highest gasoline prices in the United States.
8:03
All of these things add up, and it's very expensive for residents.
8:06
If you have an air conditioner and you run it in California in the summer, uh it can cost you a thousand dollars in a month.
8:12
So holy smokes, a thousand US dollars.
8:16
Yeah, so it's it's uh you know, he boasts about this stuff and thinks this is great, but it's hurting the people of California.
8:23
Yeah, and I notice only Hawaii, which of course is getting, I guess, most of its energy from what imported diesel, or what does it get itself?
8:31
Well, there's no pipelines out to Hawaii, of course.
8:33
They're gonna truck everything in.
8:35
But California is rapidly catching Hawaii.
8:37
Yeah.
8:38
Yeah, Hawaii is number one in the cost, and California is a close second.
8:42
And sadly, he might become our next president, right?
8:46
Well, we'll see.
8:47
We'll see.
8:48
You know, it's always tough to predict the politics, and I don't have a lot of a lot of uh faith in the voters.
8:54
They can vote, do they can do crazy things, but we'll just see what has what happens to happen, you know, happens to uh be.
9:01
But you know, a big a big thing they've been talking about is affordability crisis, affordability crisis have been the headlines.
9:06
Well, that's the perfect example of California energy.
9:10
Yeah of Mr.
9:11
Newsom state.
9:12
Yeah, it always strikes me as a bit ironic that the climate activists talk about social justice, and then they support energy sources that boost cost to you know to everybody, which of course hurts the poor the most.
9:25
So they're hurting the poor the most with their policies.
9:28
So I mean, it's pretty hypocritical, I to say that they're interested in social justice.
9:32
Yeah, I wrote an article, I can't remember the title a couple years back, talking about how uh green energy was one of the greatest wealth transfers in history from poor people to the wealthy people.
9:44
And a perfect example is putting um uh solar on your roof and then feeding the energy into the grid, and then the utility pays you at the market rate of electricity, which is can be as high as 32 cents per kilowatt hour in California, and and so.
10:00
So those people are actually subsidized.
10:01
That is above the market rate.
10:03
The power plants that generate electricity get the wholesale rate, uh, five or six cents a kilowatt hour.
10:10
So that's what people that put solar on the roof should get.
10:13
Otherwise, it's a wealth transfer from the from the poor people that don't have enough money to put the uh solar on the roof.
10:19
But another example is electric vehicles.
10:22
Electric vehicles are heavily subsidized, very expensive, and so it it's a big wealth transfer.
10:28
Yeah, it's interesting.
10:29
Last night I was reading that the polls show that the EV owners in the United States, largely in California, are almost all exclusively white male and uh upper and upper middle class and and wealthy.
10:43
I mean, these EVs are not bought bought by the poor, that's for sure.
10:47
Yeah, most of them are second cars, and you're right.
10:49
Uh they're high income people typically.
10:52
But we have Canada, of course, that wants to force everybody to get a zero emissions vehicle by 2035.
10:57
I think that's just crazy.
10:59
Not only are the temperatures colder, but you have such long driving distances.
11:03
I've spoken at some conferences in Alberta and places, and people drive for seven or eight hours to get to these conferences.
11:10
You know, it's a big country up there.
11:12
Yeah, for sure.
11:13
Now, one of the things that's kind of encouraging is that we're seeing all kinds of parties backing away from the climate catastrophe narrative.
11:22
And I was intrigued to see Bill Gates doing it.
11:25
So, I mean, why is he doing it?
11:26
And and what's going on there?
11:28
Yeah, this is huge.
11:29
Now, Mr.
11:30
Gates is one of the wealthiest men in the world.
11:32
Uh, he has, I think over 100 billion dollars to his name.
11:35
He also has these foundations that for years have been contributing billions of dollars to so-called fight uh man-made global warming.
11:44
Uh, he also wrote a book in 2021, How to Avoid a Climate Disaster was the title of his book.
11:52
But just two weeks before the COP 30 conference in Brazil, he uh posted on his website and also sent a memo to the conference that changed his position in a big way.
12:04
Uh in the memo, he stated, quote, climate change is a serious problem, but will not be the end of the civilization.
12:11
He went on to say that, quote, unfortunately the doomsday outlook is causing much of the climate community to focus too much on near-term emissions goals.
12:20
And then one of his concluding thoughts was quote, our chief goal should be to prevent suffering, particularly for those in the toughest conditions who live in the world's poorest countries, and I could add to that not emissions.
12:32
So this is really, really a big change.
12:34
And all the headlines were ringing with this about how he had changed position, and the the climatists thought it was terrible, and the so-called climate realists, as I would call you, say that uh, you know, this is sensible.
12:47
It's you know, let's let's solve real human suffering, disease, a lack of electrical power, uh lack of fresh water, all those things need to be solved, and and emissions are uh are small in in comparison.
12:59
Yeah, for sure.
13:00
And it's interesting that he's been essentially channeling beyond Lombard, isn't he?
13:05
Yeah, you're right.
13:06
Uh Bian Bjorn Lomborg has said that for many years, that climate change is a problem, but there's much bigger things to do.
13:13
Uh so that yeah, that that point of view is very similar.
13:18
He's actually one of the main funders of Lomborg.
13:21
I don't know if you realize that.
13:22
Okay.
13:23
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
13:24
Now, there's other people throughout different parts, different parts of the world, in particular political parties that are pushing back against climatism and net zero.
13:33
And can you give us some examples?
13:35
Sadly, none of them are from Canada.
13:38
Yeah, well, we we now have five major parties across the world that have said no more uh net zero, basically.
13:45
One is reform UK, added up by Nigel Farage, and they have actually coined the phrase net stupid zero.
13:53
By the way, net zero is the idea that by 2050 the world would would not be on net emitting any carbon dioxide, they would capture anything they emitted, and they would switch to wind, uh solar and biofuels get away from coal, oil and natural gas.
14:07
But it really is an impossibility.
14:09
But anyway, you reform UK is calling it net stupid zero.
14:12
In Germany, we and and you've reformed UK is polling number one in the polls now, and they have been for for many months.
14:19
Yeah, they have a new election, they'll probably take over a lot of the government in Germany.
14:23
We have the alternative for Deutschland Party, which is polling number two, and the leader of that, Alice Weidel has said uh down with these windmills of shame.
14:33
Uh, they have a party platform, they want to get rid of all the wind turbine towers in Germany, which really would be a terrific change.
14:40
Oh, wow, yeah.
14:41
And then in the last uh two months, we've had uh two parties in Australia that have come out and said they're not gonna go after net zero anymore, they're not favoring them.
14:51
One is the National's Party and one is the Liberal Party, and they've taken a vote to quote ditch net zero, and the head of the uh national the Nationalist Party, David Little Proud, has been quoted as saying, we believe in reducing emissions, but not at any cost.
15:08
It just is getting too expensive to do these things.
15:10
So we have all these uh all these parties that are pushing back.
15:13
Yeah, for sure.
15:14
And actually, I'll just add to this, and that is that the conservative party in the UK have said that if they're elected, uh they're gonna get rid of all of these mandates and net zero targets and all sorts of things.
15:27
So that's kind of encouraging to see also.
15:29
So what what's happening?
15:31
I mean, why are all these parties now dumping the whole thing?
15:34
Well, I think people are seeing that that uh things are just very, very expensive uh when you put in these renewables.
15:42
I mean, Europe is a perfect example, as I think I've talked about on your podcast before.
15:47
Um, if you look at the nations of Europe and Europe is is where most of the wind and solar has been installed uh uh per capita around the world, they have the highest density.
15:57
But you find out that the countries that put in the most wind and solar have the highest electricity prices, despite the headlines saying that uh wind and solar are cheaper.
16:06
Well, they're not primarily that is a common argument.
16:10
Almost every presentation I go to from the greens on the other side.
16:14
They say, well, even if there weren't a climate crisis, wind and solar are now cheaper than natural gas and nuclear and all the rest.
16:22
But that's only because they're getting huge subsidies, surely.
16:26
Well, and they they're looking at at a per per unit addition of electricity, but not the total system.
16:33
We also have a situation in the United States where I guess you call them the most of the Democrat states that have all these climate goals have had the highest rise in electricity prices.
16:46
If you look over the last five years, uh California, Maine, New York, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut, all have electricity prices that have risen faster than the national average.
16:58
All over 30% they've risen, and the national average is up about 22%.
17:03
Where other states, such as Georgia, Florida, Texas, Missouri, that are relying more on coal and natural gas, uh have lower rates of increase.
17:13
Uh, we also see that the states that put in the most wind turbine towers have electricity rates that are rising faster than the national average.
17:21
So, I mean, the data is there for people to see, despite what the headlines are saying.
17:25
So, so where are these headlines coming from?
17:28
I mean, they must have some sort of backing.
17:30
Like what is the information that they're taking that's so different from what we're seeing.
17:36
Yeah, it's it is remarkable.
17:38
Well, well, we have, you know, the we have the environmental groups of the world, and um they used to be worried about uh conservation of animals and and nature and and other sorts of things, but now, as you know, uh global warming has become the central issue for all of the major environmental groups of the world.
17:57
Yeah, you know, maybe I may be uh uh expanding that a little broadly, but that's generally the case.
18:02
And so they're publishing all this material all the time.
18:05
We have tremendous constituencies uh that that uh get a lot of money coming in from um global warming.
18:14
We have more than 30 climate modeling teams across the world.
18:18
And it uh, you know, in my first book, climate is I think it was my second book, The Mad Man Mad World of Climatism.
18:24
I I quote the head of a computer modeling team that says that it costs 50 million dollars to set up one of these teams and 20 million dollars a year to run this on a supercomputer.
18:34
Yeah, yeah, and so there's tremendous amount of money behind all these efforts, and then we have wind, solar, and biofuels and huge subsidies and and huge uh huge uh industries that have grown up around those.
18:46
So if I'm at a presentation and the speaker is saying wind and solar are now the cheapest form of electricity, how would you answer that during the QA?
18:55
Like what would you say?
18:56
What would you say?
18:57
Well, I would go through those things I talked about.
18:58
I would say, okay, uh, why Germany and and and Denmark have the highest density of wind and solar in Europe.
19:05
Why are they electricity prices higher than other nations?
19:08
Yeah.
19:08
Uh you can also look at the U.S.
19:10
and I've I I have a graph I could show that show the top 12 wind states in the United States, and seven of those 12 states have power prices that have gone up faster than the national average.
19:23
There's a lot of evidence for this, and it's because of all the land area that is required, it's because of all the transmission you have to build out to these remote wind and solar units.
19:34
It's because they're intermittent and you have to back them up uh with other power plants, and so all the call all these costs may uh add up.
19:42
And then he have these things die in just a few years.
19:45
You know, the INPO uh solar system in California, they're gonna shut that down after 11 years.
19:53
Yeah, that was supposed to be the future of uh solar power.
19:56
Like what happened there and how big is it, by the way, because I think that's important.
20:00
People to understand covers six square miles and it's an engineering model that has it has three towers in the middle of the six square mile area, surrounded by about almost 200,000 mirrors that reflect sunlight up onto these towers and heat of fluid and allow it to produce electricity.
20:17
But uh, and and when it was built in 2014, it was the largest solar facility in the world at that time.
20:24
Uh it cost over two billion dollars to build, but now they want to shut it down because it can't even break even.
20:30
You know, they're out in the desert and they gotta have people running around taking dust off these mirrors all the time.
20:36
Yeah, right.
20:37
And then by the way, uh, Ivanpaw is also not environmentally friendly.
20:42
It uh some people have estimated that it kills up to 6,000 birds a year.
20:46
Oh, how does it do that?
20:47
How does it kill the birds?
20:48
Yeah, it's very hot next to these towers, and when when it shines all these light on them, literally birds start smoking and fall to earth.
20:56
They actually have a name, a term for this.
20:57
They call them streamers.
21:00
Oh, is that right?
21:01
That's sad.
21:02
You know, one of the things I find strange is that the animal rights groups are not jumping into the climate debate because you know, it's funny, the Audubon Society of all groups on their homepage, they have wind turbines.
21:16
Like, I mean, I thought at first, oh, they must be criticizing them for all the birds that are killed.
21:20
But no, they're saying that this helps stop climate change that's hurting birds.
21:24
So, I mean, this is pretty silly.
21:27
And there's all sorts of examples of these systems being built and not used.
21:31
Another example is the Napa Valley University put up a fairly small solar system.
21:37
I think it was seven and a half million dollars uh a number of years ago.
21:41
Now it's got plants growing through it.
21:44
I mean, you look at I got an image of it, and there's these all these plants growing up through the wind turbines, or I'm sorry, up through the solar panels.
21:51
They're just not using it anymore.
21:52
And this happens over and over with these systems.
21:55
Uh, there's in my in one of my early books, I have uh pictures of of wind systems in Hawaii that are no longer used.
22:03
And you can see the blades, they're all rusted and broken and yeah, apparently in Spain, which has gone crazy on wind turbines, they now have a lot of the actual tower without the blades on them because they just weren't producing enough power, they're just not worth it.
22:18
And these towers are just there rusting all over the place.
22:21
The systems are fragile, actually.
22:23
I I did get an article published called uh wind and solar are fragile.
22:27
And one of the things that's happening in the Midwest is we're having all these solar systems being destroyed by hail.
22:33
Oh, yeah.
22:34
They put these things up and and hail falls down, and you get a fair amount of hail around the Midwest, and they've had half of these systems destroyed, and so it's very hard to insure them now.
22:45
The insurance have limits, they have to go out and get insurance from five or six companies.
22:50
It's very expensive.
22:52
Uh so there's just a lot of issues with these systems.
22:55
They're not very durable.
22:57
Often they don't last very long.
22:59
Um yet we still have environmental groups pushing them.
23:03
Yeah, now how long typically would a wind turbine last?
23:06
Let's say a three megawatt massive machine.
23:09
How long would it last typically?
23:11
I think they say 20 to 25 years, but they have been lasting shorter periods in in Europe.
23:17
The offshores have been replaced earlier.
23:20
There are pictures of hurricanes that have come through the Caribbean where they had a bunch of wind turbines on the islands down there.
23:26
Those have been destroyed.
23:27
Yeah, and I've been warning that uh that boy along the Atlantic coast there, they want to put up these Mr.
23:33
Trump has stopped a lot of it, but they want to put up all these wind turbines, and we get hurricanes, and now the the the turbines are designed to protect themselves from high wind, but the problem is if the eye of a hurricane uh goes over the area, near the eye, the the speed and direction of the wind changes almost instantaneously from one direction to another, and the wind turbines are not going to be able to protect against that.
23:59
So I think we're going to get those ripped up.
24:02
By the way, they had a single wind turbine blade fail last summer off the coast of Nantucket.
24:07
A single blade, it was like 300 feet long.
24:10
It it all washed up on shore, and it took six dump trucks to clean up the the blade debris, a single blade.
24:17
Imagine what would happen if a if a uh hurricane came through these Yeah, it's amazing.
24:22
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because when we talk about solar and they show a picture of Ivanhoe, how do you pronounce it?
24:28
Ivan Ivanhoe.
24:30
Ivanhoe.
24:31
You see, many of the the actual panels are damaged, aren't they?
24:36
I I haven't seen that, but uh, you know, I'll trust you on that.
24:38
I haven't seen the pictures.
24:40
And you know, the Netherlands, it's amazing.
24:42
I was reading the other day that if you walk a certain path across the Netherlands, you never lose sight of an industrial wind turbine.
24:50
You can see it literally everywhere as you walk across the country.
24:54
I mean, they've gone berserk, they've gone crazy.
24:57
Denmark the same way.
24:59
I used to post a, you know, I think in one of my early books, I had a a uh map of Denmark and dots that showed all the wind turbines.
25:07
And it's just it's just all over the place.
25:09
And literally, you can walk from from the south side of Denmark to the north side and and never lose sight of a wind turbine.
25:16
So it's yeah, you know, it's not it's not a good thing.
25:20
Yeah, I think it was Denmark that I was thinking of.
25:22
I'll put that in image actually in the description, because it it's it must be a fantastic windfall for China, you know, because don't most of these turbines and solar panels isn't China the biggest producer.
25:34
Well, they are, yeah, they sell them all over the world, but they still produ they still use the most amount of coal in the world, roughly 60% of electricity comes from coal.
25:43
Yeah, yeah, and they use coal, they use coal in the energy to make the wind turbines.
25:49
They do.
25:50
Yeah, they should put a big sign on it made with coal.
25:54
Well, we have to go for a break now, Steve, but I wanted to drill down a little bit further into what's happening in the United States with regards to withdrawing from the climate scare.
26:04
And that's a very encouraging development.
26:06
So stay tuned.
26:07
I'll be right back with Steve Gorham from Climate Science Coalition of America.
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28:59
Well, did you see Google finally updated its AI principles removing its pledge not to use AI for weapons or surveillance?
29:08
A promise they agreed to in 2018.
29:11
Well, the American people have seen Google's track record.
29:14
Often question is Google an untrustworthy player in the AI race.
29:24
Now is our time, my fellow Americans.
29:27
America outmaud news.
29:30
Liberty and justice for all.
29:36
So we're back with Steve Gorham, executive director of Climate Science Coalition of America.
29:41
His latest book is called Green Breakdown, Becoming Renewable Energy Failure.
29:47
Now, Steve, I wonder does the current governor of Mayor of New York?
29:52
I mean, maybe they're reading your books because they're kind of retracting from the whole thing, too.
29:57
Well, they are.
29:58
There have been some big changes.
29:59
Now
30:00
New York has been one of the most progressive states in the nation as far as uh green policies, if you will.
30:07
Progressive, regressive.
30:09
Or regressive, depending on how you want uh one of their big laws was they passed a law saying that uh all new construction, all new buildings had to use uh electric appliances, couldn't use gas, uh, couldn't use propane or natural gas.
30:26
That was supposed to take effect 2026, but uh recently Governor Hochel has stepped back from that and they've decided to delay that a year.
30:36
They had uh these were legally mandated emissions targets, and they but they've agreed with the courts not to pursue these.
30:44
Another one is pipelines.
30:47
New York for two decades has banned gas pipelines in the name of uh climate change, and this has really impacted uh New England because uh New England relies very heavily on natural gas, both for electrical power and heat homes.
31:07
And so uh New York banned pipelines, they ran out of gas in England, they had to start importing it, uh liquefied natural gas into uh Boston Harbor and distributing it, uh paying uh very high uh international prices, global prices, and as a result, the the cost of natural gas in New England is roughly triple the cost in the rest of the United States.
31:32
Oh, wow.
31:34
And it's coming from places that don't have the environmental standards that we have.
31:39
Well, that's right.
31:39
It you know, there for a while they were they were importing uh liquefied natural gas from Russia.
31:44
Oh, lovely.
31:46
That was before the UC Ukraine invasion, but uh but just not good.
31:50
So now Massachusetts has said, you know, wait a minute here.
31:54
Uh we ought to step back from some of these laws.
31:57
For example, they had uh laws saying that by I think by 2035 uh or 2040, they were going to have all our electrical power, uh, even 2030.
32:07
Let's see.
32:08
Uh they wanted uh CO2 emissions below 50 percent uh below 1990 levels by 2030, and then it was supposed to go down further, but they're now relaxing those.
32:19
80 percent of Massachusetts electricity is generated by natural gas, and half of the households more than half rely on uh natural gas or propane for heating, right?
32:29
But they can't they can't get the gas anymore.
32:31
So um, and by the way, Mr.
32:33
Trump, you know, shut down all the offshore wind turbines.
32:36
Uh he's no longer granting license for licenses for those, and the new england states and new york wanted to build a bunch of wind turbines, those are all on hold, plus they have pricing issues uh as well.
32:48
Yeah, the the installers, and so they're gonna uh Massachusetts is stepping back from their from their mandates.
32:57
Well, it's about time.
32:58
One of the things that strikes me, Steve, is that if in fact extreme weather was increasing, the last thing you would want to do is get rid of your most solid and dependable energy sources.
33:08
Yeah, so it's kind of like you're in an ocean liner, and they say, Oh, a storm's approaching, everybody into the lifeboats.
33:15
Well, no, you want to stay in your strongest boat when the storm's coming.
33:19
So, I mean, that's an argument, doesn't make any sense that I don't think extreme weather is increasing.
33:23
Well, first of all, is it increasing?
33:26
I think the evidence shows that it that we're not seeing increasing uh uh weather.
33:32
Um again, I uh I I cite data from our own U.S.
33:35
government.
33:36
Uh NOAA has showed charts, for example.
33:39
Uh, this year we didn't have any hurricanes make landfall in the United States.
33:44
Last year was a big year, though.
33:45
We had five all coming up from the Gulf.
33:47
But if you look over the last hundred years, and and Noah has tracked all of this, the number of landfalling hurricanes has been declining.
33:56
Uh it was about 20 per decade that would come ashore back about 1900.
34:01
Now it's approaching 15 per decade, so that's coming down.
34:05
Yeah.
34:05
Uh scientists also use satellite data to look globally, and they count every they track every tropical storm on the surface of the earth and every stronger hurricane.
34:16
And if you look at that data, you see that is not increasing either.
34:19
Uh it's it's been very flat.
34:21
I just saw a study in Japan that says the number of typhoons has been declining over the last 50 years.
34:27
So there's really not evidence that storms are getting stronger, but as you say, you you hear that in the news media all the time.
34:34
Uh just uh makes great makes for great headlines, I guess.
34:38
It strikes me that this is observational bias, because let's take tornadoes in Oklahoma, for example.
34:44
You could have a pretty significant tornado hit Oklahoma a hundred years ago, and perhaps nobody would see it.
34:51
Whereas today there's much denser population, people all have cell phones.
34:55
Wouldn't you say a lot of the supposed increase in extreme weather is really just observational bias?
35:01
Well, we have better tools.
35:02
Also we have radar which can see these things, track it and record it.
35:07
But you know, there's a big media bias for to make sense things sensational.
35:11
Uh we used to call them cold snaps, now they're polar vortexes, and we used to uh um you know, now not only naming hurricanes, but they're naming tornadoes and they're naming Doricios, they're naming everything else, and now we have um we got heat indexes which make all the numbers look higher, and we have um uh what's the wind chill wind chill to make it look like cold side to make it look cold.
35:36
So, you know, everything to make headlines.
35:38
Yeah, yeah, it's funny, you know.
35:40
I asked uh leading Canadian editor of a newspaper here in Canada.
35:43
I can't say his name because he told me this in confidence, but I asked him, I said, why do you support the climate scare?
35:50
Because years before they used to publish our articles all the time, and now they never do.
35:56
And he said, Oh, well, we agree with David Suzuki.
35:59
I said, Well, you realize when Suzuki, when David Suzuki was a scientist, because he isn't anymore, he was a fruit fly geneticist.
36:06
He doesn't have any expertise in the field, and besides, you have anybody on staff who knows even who has a bachelor of science, so that they can make some judgment between you know who should be reported and who shouldn't.
36:19
He said, No.
36:20
I said, Okay, so tell me the truth.
36:22
Why do you really only cover the alarmist side?
36:25
And then he told me the truth.
36:26
He said, Because if we allowed people like Professor Clark or you know, Matt Ev Kandakar from Environment Canada, he's retired now, showing that there's no increase in extreme weather, our advertisers wouldn't like it.
36:39
And I thought, yeah, that's a point.
36:41
Because bad news sells.
36:42
Remember Johnny Cash said good news travels slow, while bad news travels like wildfire in his song.
36:49
Yeah, so you increase circulation by having bad news and catastrophic forecasts for the future.
36:55
But there's another reason, Steve.
36:57
I had a look at that newspaper from the editor that was actually talking to me, and they would bring out full-page ads from printing companies or car companies, saying, look at our product, buy our product, because we're helping reduce climate change.
37:11
Okay, because they're reducing greenhouse gases in their manufacture.
37:14
The last thing they want is on the next page to have a leading expert saying, Well, forget it, you can't control climate.
37:21
So that was the driver in Canada, at least.
37:24
Do you think that's happening in the US too?
37:26
That money is the driver of the massive news coverage of the climate alarmism.
37:32
It could be, yeah.
37:32
And you know, companies like even publications have to respond to what their clients are telling them, what the suppliers are telling them.
37:40
Yeah, and so advertising probably can be a pretty big factor.
37:43
And you know, we have things like oil companies that are being uh m members on the board of an oil company are being personally sued uh for climate issues.
37:53
So, you know, it is it's a serious issue with corporations.
37:56
Yeah, for sure.
37:57
Hey, Steve, I I wanted to ask you going back to where you're talking about um the New England area.
38:03
Yeah.
38:04
Two questions.
38:05
Number one, are they still getting Russian gas?
38:07
I don't think they are anymore, but I don't think so.
38:09
Okay.
38:10
Secondly, though, can you explain that when we're obviously it's in winter where New England gets very cold, that because of their ideology and how their belief in climate change and renewables and how they don't believe in fossil fuels anymore, the Democratic Party doesn't.
38:27
That aren't aren't they don't they burn oil for electricity in certain states in New England right now?
38:34
I think they do when things get very, very cold and they run out of gas.
38:38
Now uh my understanding is gas has first priority for homes, actually, not for electrical power.
38:44
So if they get a very cold period like now, they probably they don't have enough gas.
38:49
Uh and so they end up burning uh oil to to fill in uh to generate enough power.
38:55
So there is some of that going on.
38:58
But again, you know, there have been battles in in New England.
39:00
Uh sometimes the gas companies have said, well, we're just not going to take any on any more new customers.
39:05
We're just gonna shut everybody off because we don't have enough gas for them, and then the the state governments don't like that.
39:10
You gotta do that, you know, you gotta bring out new customers.
39:14
So yeah.
39:15
Can you see though?
39:16
Because it it's it's almost funny, but like let's think about this.
39:20
The United States, like Saudi Arabia, it in Saudi Arabia burns copious amounts of oil for electricity.
39:26
Can you explain though to the audience what it means and how dirty it is when you burn oil for electricity?
39:34
Well, it can be fairly dirty, you know, and that that gets to what we really ought to be uh focusing on.
39:40
And the proper procedure is to focus on real pollutants, not carbon dioxide, and that means particulates and some of that comes out of oil, uh, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, and ozone, lead, those sorts of things.
39:55
Those things can really harm people, but the world has gone off track and they've been focusing on carbon.
40:00
Dioxide, which is an odorless, harmless invisible gas, doesn't cause smoke or smog.
40:06
You know, they always show these pictures of a power plant with something, something coming out of the chimneys.
40:11
Well, that's not carbon dioxide.
40:13
You can't see carbon dioxide, so the picture really is meaningless.
40:17
The great news is that all the wealthy nations of the world have done a great job in reducing air pollution over the last 30 years.
40:24
In the United States, our pollutants are down about combined 80%, according to EPA data, uh, since uh 1970.
40:34
But everybody says, Oh, it's so terrible.
40:36
And and they keep saying, Well, when you when you emit carbon dioxide, that's a pollutant that harm people, but it doesn't.
40:41
We each we each exhale two pounds of CO2 every day, every person on Earth.
40:46
Yeah, I have a I have a question for Todd.
40:49
You know, in 1981, when I left the military, I had been posted in northern Alberta.
40:54
So I drove to California to thaw out.
40:57
And I was I was I was sitting in a traffic jam in Los Angeles, and the pollution was so bad in 1981 that the horizon the horizon was brown everywhere.
41:10
Now I had been on base defense force, and I still had my gas mask.
41:14
So I put it on, and nobody looked at me like I was stupid.
41:18
So I mean, is it better now?
41:20
Oh, absolutely it is, and you can go, and and I I'm pretty sure it's Steve, and I haven't looked at your data recently, Steve.
41:27
I'm I'm I'm willing to bet he's done this work.
41:29
So let's first say Steve has done this work.
41:31
Um, the last time I looked at this, you can go to the California Air Resource Board website, or you can go to the EPA, the United States Environment of Protection Agency website.
41:42
You got to dig around a little bit, but you can actually do charts where you can go show me because Steve just brought up particulate matter.
41:51
These are the things that actually, for lack of better terms here, matter.
41:55
And you can see how pollution, not carbon dioxide, but pollution has dramatically gone down in California, sometimes 99%.
42:05
And in particular with the United States, and I do know Steve has written about this, that the United States is the only country that met the Coyota Protocols, and we're actually the only country that met the Paris Climate Agreement.
42:18
We met the standards that were set because we've we've we don't use as much coal, and now we obviously use more natural gas from the shale revolution.
42:27
But you can truly go and go, Oh, that's Steve Gorm and Todd Royal, they're right wing climate denier MAGA.
42:34
No, oh gosh, Todd and Tom, the MAGA energy guys, no, go to the California Air Resources Board, which does pretty good jobs in collecting data, and then certainly the EPA does a good job in collecting data, and you can see yes, it was high in the 60s and 70s and the 80s, and then it began to dramatically go down, as in Steve, please take this and run with it because fuel efficiencies meaning cars got cleaner, our factories and different things got cleaner, and we started to use homes got cleaner, and we started to use natural gas, and then finally, and then I a friend of mine, actually professor said one of the biggest sources of emissions and like a 1970s vehicle is things were not sealed on them.
43:26
So gas vapors and transmission fluids, those vapors would leak out of a car.
43:32
Yeah, and now because the way brand new vehicles are from roughly he had told me starting around 2000.
43:40
Certainly now, any car within like the last five or 10 years, they're sealed back, and so think vapors are not getting out the way they used to, and that dramatically cut down um smog and air pollution in places like Los Angeles and the San Bernando Valley, the valley part of very very good.
44:02
Well, my grandfather had a coal furnace in his basement in the 1950s in Chicago.
44:08
Many people had coal furnaces, and after four days uh after snowfall, you would see a black film on all of the snow.
44:15
That was particulates from the coal.
44:18
And the young people, the listeners won't know what spring cleaning was, but spring cleaning originally what they did in Chicago is they would wash down the inside of their walls every spring to take off the coal dust.
44:30
Wow.
44:30
And when you when you put natural gas in a home that was either burning wood or coal, you reduce the particulate matter by a factor of a thousand.
44:37
It's a big, big deal.
44:39
And today the big the biggest source of particulates is fires on the west coast.
44:44
It's it's it's burning trees, it's not cars anymore, it's not you know, one big forest fire in California after about three days emits more particulates than all of the vehicles do in a year.
44:56
So we we've really done a great job in getting all these these other pollutants down, and people need to get sensible about carbon dioxide.
45:03
Let's there are other things to solve.
45:05
We still got some plastic in the ocean issues.
45:08
We have uh water being discharged, not in Europe or or US or Canada much, but um, in developing nations discharging into oceans, rivers, and streams.
45:18
People want to see something interesting.
45:20
Uh, go to YouTube and put in India and garbage and river, and you you see this video where they have just truck after garbage, truck after garbage truck dumping their garbage into the river over the side of the bridge, flows out to the ocean.
45:37
And about you know, about 40, 50 years ago, New York was doing the same thing, dumping garbage into the ocean, they stopped that.
45:42
But but uh, so you know, those are the things we gotta we have to uh work on, not carbon dioxide.
45:49
Hey, Steve, can I ask you um in that regard?
45:53
I I I had written in one of my books.
45:55
I'd had the source, and I don't know where it is anymore.
45:57
And I thought I felt like I read it recently.
45:59
In regards to the plastic in the ocean things, which we're told all the time.
46:03
Oh my god, plastics, oh my god, plastics.
46:06
If I remember correctly, there are 10 rivers in the Southeast Asia area with China and India.
46:14
The 10 rivers that 90% of all the world's plastic waste is in those 10 rivers.
46:19
Is that probably right?
46:21
Okay, yeah, it's something like 98% is coming from developing nations, most of it in Asia.
46:26
We're still putting about 10 million tons of plastic into the oceans every year.
46:30
And by some estimates, you have about a hundred million tons out there, but it's not like you know, if you go out into an area where they say they got this plastic, you really can't see it.
46:39
It's small particles, it needs to be cleaned up.
46:42
What we need is biodegradable plastics.
46:44
Uh, that the great idea.
46:46
Yeah, something, but yeah, they tend to be more expensive, but yep, but that's that's what we need to work on.
46:52
Tom, can I ask you one other thing on this?
46:54
Because I'm going, I'm going down a rabbit trail with him a little bit because yeah.
46:58
And I just want to let our audience know when you get somebody like Steve, I we get to go down rabbit holes with him.
47:03
This is a oh, it's fun.
47:05
This is this is an expert in this, guys.
47:07
And and and please let me say if Tom hasn't already said it, that this is somebody you want to read, subscribe to, is what Steve is doing.
47:16
Go follow him.
47:17
You're you're you're getting as good a knowledge as you're gonna get anywhere.
47:20
And so can I ask you a little rabbit hole uh thing, and Tom's gonna let me go down a rabbit hole.
47:26
The the BP oil spill, the big thing, you know, the movie was made from it by Mark Wahlberg.
47:31
Do you know any do you know anything about that?
47:34
Are you familiar with that at all before I go down the street?
47:36
Yeah, I was off the coast of Texas, and I I don't remember, you know, maybe 20 years ago or so.
47:41
Uh it was a pretty big issue.
47:43
Yeah, horizon, I think it's called BP Horizon.
47:46
I had read something that said because the ocean is so resilient and it's so massive, and because Tom was it you've talked about this?
47:56
I think we've only explored like 20 to 30 percent of the entire ocean, and there's mountain ranges that are you know underneath the water that are bigger than Mount Everest.
48:06
Wasn't it in the connection here is the plastic waste waste issue, and the BT spill was no joke, millions of gallons of of crude oil.
48:16
If we had done nothing, supposedly it would have been better for the environment versus all the chemicals and things we did to clean it up, but the ocean could have naturally absorbed it, naturally cleaned it up and naturally taken care of that.
48:29
Is that am I a little nutty here?
48:32
I'm not sure about that.
48:33
I think someone was washing up on beaches, and so they had to do something there, but but you know, there's a lot of crude oil that goes into the oceans.
48:41
I have a picture in my first book, Climatism, which is a satellite picture of the Gulf of Mexico, and you see all these black streaks running through the Gulf.
48:51
And what those are is those are natural leaks from oil under the surface of the Gulf of Mexico.
48:57
So actually, we when we uh put in oil wells and we take it and we burn it, we we keep that from leaking into the if you look at leaks over the last 20 or 30 years, the number of leaks from our ships has been declining over time, so we're doing a better job at preventing preventing leakage from tankers and other things.
49:16
And boy, you know, if you think back to history, think back to World War II, where there was something like 2,000 tankers that were sunk during that with an awful lot of oil, crude oil and refined oil that went out.
49:27
So uh things are better than they were in terms of oil in the oceans.
49:31
But but isn't that amazing what you just said, though, and Tom, you were in the military, that because we weren't talking about global warming and climate change, the amount of tonnage of warships that are that are still in the waters all over the world from World War II and the amount of oils and gas and petroleum that was just discarded and blown up.
49:55
That do you realize no one ever talks about that with World War II?
49:58
Yeah, yeah.
50:00
Yeah, so Steve, I just wanted to go back to one thing, and that is the streaks in the Gulf of Mexico or Gulf of America is as I guess we're supposed to call it.
50:09
Um you're saying those are natural.
50:12
Yes.
50:13
They're natural leaks.
50:15
Oh and there's a lot of it.
50:16
And again, I could I could mail you that picture too, I think I got.
50:19
And I don't know what the source was, but it's definitely a satellite source.
50:23
Might have been NASA or someone else.
50:25
Yeah, yeah.
50:26
There's one point we've really got to get to, and that is that last week, 230 environmental groups sent a letter to Congress calling for a halt, a halt to data center construction in the U.S.
50:37
Now, why would first of all, why would they do it?
50:40
And do you think this letter will have any impact?
50:43
Well, they talked about it already has had impact, by the way.
50:47
Um, I'll get to that in a moment.
50:48
But they talked about three big issues.
50:50
They talked about enormous electricity consumption, they talked about unsustainable water consumption.
50:56
But I think the biggest thing is the contribution to climate change.
51:00
They just don't like these data centers that are that are getting a lot of their electricity from natural gas and from coal plants and from other sources.
51:08
And companies like um, I think believe it was Microsoft said a year ago that their emissions they have a goal of being zero emissions by 2030, but their emissions is have risen 40 percent in the last five years.
51:21
So they're going the wrong direction.
51:24
They had to admit that.
51:26
But the thing that just happened is uh Senator Bernie Sanders, and I'm trying to remember where he's from, Vermont or uh Overmont, yeah.
51:34
Vermont or something.
51:35
Which is a lovely state, by the way.
51:37
Too bad.
51:37
He just he just came out yesterday and said he wants to support a ban uh uh on data centers.
51:45
Oh and his basic issue was that you know these are just things that enable the uh the wealthy to get wealthier, the one percent, and for everybody else, it raises their costs and that sort of thing.
51:57
So I think this is going to be a big issue in 2026.
52:01
Uh if Bernie Sanders is coming out for it, probably a lot of people in the Democratic Party are going to be come out come out for a ban on data centers.
52:08
Yep.
52:08
And people don't realize how big this data center construction is.
52:12
This year we had um Amazon, Meta, Google, who am I missing?
52:17
Um Microsoft, that are spending 380 billion dollars to build data centers.
52:24
Uh that was in 2025, and they've talked about increasing it next year.
52:27
Now, 380 billion dollars is a number that's bigger than the the gross domestic product of a hundred and four hundred and thirty-eight nations individually, not combined.
52:39
Wow.
52:40
But I mean, these are huge numbers.
52:41
So if the Democrats are going to go up against data center building and they basically go up against AI, uh, this is going to be a tremendous battle.
52:49
I I don't think they're going to win this one.
52:51
But but it is true.
52:52
Data centers use a lot of power, and then there's some solutions for doing that.
52:56
Yeah, so what are the data centers for?
52:58
Because we hear it all the time in the news, but I I think people don't realize that they're using them when they just use Microsoft Copilot, for example.
53:07
Well, they are, and if you if you if you Google anything now, the first thing you see is an AI answer to your query.
53:16
And so what what this has done is um chat uh chat GPT, the first chat bot, which came out in November of 2022, uh, which tried to make uh machines first uh use language like humans, and second, eventually AI is is is provides uh video and graphics and solves problems and all sorts of different things.
53:40
But uh this is the big push now.
53:42
This is as big as the internet uh was when it when it came out, and there's vast amounts of money being spent on this.
53:49
Uh we had uh at the start of 2024, we had 2700 data centers in the United States, and those data centers are mostly running the internet and providing cloud storage.
53:59
Now, less than two years later, we have over 4,000 data centers.
54:03
All these big companies, yeah, up 50%.
54:06
These companies are building all these big data centers, and and they're upgrading the old ones.
54:10
And when you upgrade the old servers, they were just running the internet to to run AI.
54:15
It requires six to ten times as much electricity.
54:18
And so at the start, so start of 2024, U.S.
54:21
electricity, 4% went to data centers, but it's estimated by 2030, that's going to triple.
54:27
Uh, and so we we are gonna have this huge demand for electricity, and some of these things are really, really big.
54:34
Uh, Meta, Facebook is building what they claim to be the biggest data center in the Western Hemisphere in Northern uh Louisiana.
54:41
Uh uh, let's see, what do they call it?
54:44
Uh, I forget the name.
54:45
But when it's done, and they're building three power plants on site next to it, the utility to provide enough power when it's they're using wind and solar, right?
54:56
No, no, you can't.
54:57
This this one facility is going to use twice as much power as New Orleans.
55:02
This center, the city of New Orleans, but you're right, you raised a good point about about wind and solar.
55:08
Uh, they can't do this.
55:09
You need seven days a week, uh, 24 hour a day power to power these things, and you need to get them online fast too.
55:17
If you're gonna do this with with wind and solar, you gotta find a farm you could put it in, you gotta find ridgelines, you gotta build transmission out to all these places.
55:25
It takes years and years and years.
55:28
And so uh I I have a I have an image which uh I show when I'm I'm presenting the groups.
55:34
It's got this huge tidal wave that's 70 or 80 feet tall, and then at the bottom of the and I call that the uh the artificial intelligence revolution, and then at the bottom there's this little tiny sailboat about 15 feet high, and that's net zero, and the artificial intelligence revolution is just gonna wash away net zero.
55:54
That's what we're on the road for.
55:59
Yeah, do you think that's partly behind Bill Gates' retraction from climate emergency?
56:05
I don't think so.
56:06
I think Mr.
56:06
Gates is being serious.
56:07
I think he's gone around the world enough to see that things like disease, things like people, people not having electrical power, not having fresh water.
56:16
Those are the key things.
56:17
I think he's sincere.
56:18
Yeah.
56:19
And and uh emissions are he still says climate change is a problem, but I think he's he's uh moved along uh toward the path that Bjorn Lomborg is has taken that other things are bigger problems that we need to solve.
56:32
Yeah, for sure.
56:33
Unfortunately, we have to wrap up now.
56:35
Uh Steve Gorham, our guest today is executive director of the Climate Science Coalition of America.
56:41
As you can hear, he's obviously a great speaker.
56:43
I encourage people to bring him in for your conferences and and other things.
56:48
His latest book is called Green Breakdown, the coming renewable energy failure.
56:52
And of course, that's largely going to be driven, as Steve said, woof, by a massive tidal wave of AI.
56:58
So thanks for being our guest today, Steve.
57:01
Thanks, Tom.
57:02
Thanks, Todd.
57:03
Yeah.
57:03
So this is Tom Harris, my co-host Todd Royal, and our guest Steve Gorham signing out from the other side of the screen.