Latest / Founder F**K ups / Their meeting room is an ice bath, and they're married | Lyv & Paul, The Contrast Club
Transcript
- speaker-0: Liv and Paul met for a work inquiry that led to no business whatsoever. Seven years later, they're married, and three months ago they opened the Contrast Club, an ice bath club here in KL. Now, one in five reasons for startup failure is co-founder Fallout. But most co-founders get to go home to a different house. But for Paul and Liv, they go home to the same house and the same dog. So today we're going to do the whole episode in their protocol. That's with a coffee and an ice bath. And a sauna. Let's get into the episode. Paul. Liv's for Yeah. speaker-1: Thanks for having us been. speaker-0: So you guys met through a work inquiry. And obviously, then later on you you've got married, and seven years later, from that first meeting, you're at the dinner table, and Liv's like, hey, let's start a contracts club. Four. What first went through your mind of a signer? speaker-2: Sure. Yeah. I mean, obviously I think between the two of us we personally really liked contrast therapy concept, like sauna ice bath, et cetera. But for me, first thought to have this as a business still a little bit hesitant. I was like, will it be that popular in Malaysia? You know, people always say it's hot outside here anyway. Why do I need a sauna? So yeah, it definitely took a bit of thinking and I guess we had quite a few discussions over it until it kind of materialized into something very concrete. Yeah. speaker-0: How did those discussions go for you, Lid? speaker-1: I think I was pretty I was pretty set on the idea that it was going to work here. I mean, contrast therapy had already gained enough traction to begin with. We just needed to see a different way of doing it, of recovering together instead of alone. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's kind of history repeating itself 'cause obviously in ancient times they had the old bath houses and it's just resurfaced. You know, into into life. And at the beginning you were kind of hunched, right? You're like going out hunting for locations, you know, looking at suppliers. As I understand it, Paul, you said yes at first, but there needed to be a second yes. So at what point will you like, you know what? Fuck it, I'm called. speaker-2: That's that's a very good question. I think for us, what was definitely kind of a turning point was when we found a location that we really liked. Right. I mean, to us definitely the way that we built this business now, it's a lot about like the community, the ecosystem. So I think for us to the point where we could really I at least speaking for myself, see and envision how this will look like in the future is when we found a spot that's like, this is it. Yeah. It has to be here. And I can totally see that it would work here. speaker-0: Yeah, nice. Anything you want to add to that? speaker-1: No, that was exactly the moment where I felt that he was all in as well. I think you need to see it to believe it sometimes. And looking for the right location took a couple of months, but once we got the right one, there was no second guessing it. speaker-0: Was there like an emotional flip with it? Like a like was it you heard in the tone of his voice of the excitement that he thought Probably shouldn't do that. speaker-1: But it's just all actions, yeah. Like yeah, he started doing more with me in regards to T C C and that was the switch. speaker-0: I think that's a really important I I had a co-founder years ago who I ended up kind of buying out. Because right at the beginning we had very different levels of like just and he just was kind of like half-ass. No offense to him, he just wasn't in. And so I exited him because he wasn't the right fit. And then when I got a co-founder, it was and we're both just going for it. You really feel it that exciting, like try with each other as well. Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's check out the protocol. Like show me the club and and let's kind of figure out what what's been going on. speaker-1: Love to it this way. speaker-0: So what kind of inspired you for this design? Obviously you went and looked at a lot of different saunas and and on sends and things. What made this design the one that stuck? speaker-1: You know, every country does recovery in a different way from the onset in Japan to the bathhouses in Australia to the more fast paced cities like New York. And we just wanted to take every element that we felt would suit the Malaysian lifestyle and incorporate it in here. We didn't have a ton of square footage to play with, so every single space square footage counted. And we just wanted to have a space where people felt relaxed but also a dynamic energy, not too cleaning on into, you know, either extremes. So the lighting, the plants, everything just evokes that that feeling. speaker-0: Yeah. I love whilst we're talking more about these guys freezing in in the background. speaker-2: I think what was very important for us when it came to how we designed the space were basically two factors. One, making it c as convenient and as seamless for people to come here, right? So That's easy parking access, a quick check-in process, providing swimmer and towels. So members can come at any time of the day. They can be in and out of here in like twenty, thirty minutes, if that's all the time that they have. That's one. And then the second point, often what we saw in other places is that recovery is still somewhat of a solitary experience. so for us, community definitely was in the focus here. these days, you know, I think people are all looking for their third space, somewhere to hang out, that's not the office, that's not at home. so yeah, again for us we try to make way for people to be able to come in here and connect with people that they know or that they don't know and come and leave in a refreshed and energized way, ready to tackle their day. Yeah. speaker-0: Awesome. Awesome. And why is like contrast therapy actually good for us? So why is it good for recovery? Why should people be doing it? speaker-1: Contrast therapy is an old, old practice when it comes to relaxation and recovery. it helps in a multitude of ways. It's it detoxes the body, stimulates your nervous system, it relaxes your muscles, calms inflammation, helps you sleep better, and helps you train your mental resilience. If you stay long enough in a cold plunge, You'll find a calm in you that you never knew existed, and you come out a completely changed person. speaker-0: I always feel like I come out a bit high, like speaker-1: High on life, right? speaker-0: Conquer anything. And actually, some of my best ideas come from in the magnesium bath. speaker-1: Not the first time we've heard that. Yeah. Yeah. People got creative in there. speaker-0: So I guess if I was to add, because my next question is why should founders care about it? I guess that's part of it, like being having that kind of relaxation space, the inspiration. As founders yourself, what do you find that actually having this protocol does to help you deal with the stresses and the the anxiety? you know, you got payroll to worry about, cash flow, bills coming in, yeah, you know, all these things that founders have to deal with. How you know, how does the protocol help? speaker-1: I think, you know, we talk so much and we focus so much on the hustle, but not many people actually talk about the recovery and what needs to go in it to continue hustling, right? And to continue with with doing the hard things that we have to do. I feel like you had a good angle on this as well when we last spoke about it. speaker-2: To me as a founder, obviously you always have like a hundred different things on your mind, right? And there's never really a time where you can switch off. Yeah. And while in here, I think that's one of the few times where you your body is quite stressed from the change between hot and cold. So it's a good way to actually turn off your brain and reset. And after you come out, even like the biggest stressful factors, probably in some way they don't seem as bad as they did before you came here. speaker-0: It's like the fight off flight mode, your body is too busy fighting the cold to deal with the stress. speaker-2: Yeah, totally. speaker-0: And then I brought him here and he said it was like he it was like something he just didn't really know that he needed. And then he came out and he actually felt refreshed. And I think he became a member, I'm not sure, but I think he comes back regularly anyway, or at tells me he wants to come back as much as he can. Obviously an amazing protocol, beautiful space. What's been like the biggest difficulty of setting it all up, right? you know, dealing with contractors, what what's what's been going on? speaker-1: This has been a real learning curve for the both of us. I mean, this is something that's never been quite done in KL before. So the suppliers that we work with, even partners we work with, they it's just something that's completely new. We have to describe everything A to Z, most of the times, multiple times. but you know, pretty happy with the results. Yeah. speaker-0: Any fuck ups along the way? speaker-2: See these beautiful tiles that we have on our benches here. Yeah. Yeah. Comfortable, clean, no issues with them. They were not here a month ago. so yeah, sad as it is, within our first two and a half months of opening, we already had to close for a couple of days because one of the products that was recommended to us by some of the vendors that we worked with didn't really suit the environment that we have, which is obviously always wet. And it's not just water, it's freaking cold water. Yeah. So yeah, again, I guess. untested protocols here. Yeah. so yeah, we basically had to strip off all the paint that we had here before and we had to tile it. So again, we had to close three and a half days within our first two and a half months of operation, which obviously was very painful. But seeing the results now, super happy with it. And I'm glad that we did it now and we didn't delay and drag it out even further. Yes. speaker-1: Fit. speaker-0: So, you know, obviously there I imagine that came with some costs, so you had to repaint it. and also the the four days I think it was that you were closed, right? Yeah, so like four days of lost revenue. I can I can see where that was tough. Well shall we go get into the hot box for the hot questions. let's speaker-2: Ha ha let's go. speaker-0: go get changed, sorry. Let's do it. Let's go. Right, we're in the hot box now. Yeah, it's fucking hot. So obviously the whole business model kind of relies on repeat returning customers, which means you've got to turn this into a habit. It can't be like that one-time occasional spar treatment. What have you been trying to do to kind of get that shift with your customers and you know what is what's not worked, what's worked. speaker-2: Sure, yeah. I mean, in general, totally spot on. So for a lot of people who come here for the first time when they walk into this space, I think they very much see and think spa. Where spa is probably something, I treat myself to a spa once a month at most, maybe once per quarter. But I think honestly the place, the experience very much sells itself, where usually even after the first sessions, people tell us, I sleep so much better. I feel so much more relaxed, I feel energized. my mind is more clear. and from there on, honestly, people generally tend to come back themselves. All the work that we do that I think has worked quite well is more about like education, like what's the right protocol? That's definitely something a lot of people ask, right? Like, should I start with the sauna? Should I start with the Coplunch? How long should I stay in each? So once we give them this kind of guidance of what is a good routine to have, yeah, very much people come and come again. speaker-1: Yeah, I think there's something very comforting in familiarity in this day and age. I mean, a lot of things are unpredictable. life can get stressful and I think people actually find a lot of solace in in some doing something familiar. speaker-0: Yeah. And okay, so people are obviously they come, they experience like, wow, this is pretty cool. They wanna get they want to do more. That some of them are thinking of the benefits, maybe some are just like, this is a de stressed moment. What have you tried to like when it comes to selling your memberships and your packages, what have you tried that hasn't worked out? Like what hasn't kind of gone quite so speaker-2: Fair question. I think definitely something that we have noticed is if we ask for a big package up front, trying to sell that to people who maybe have only been here once or twice, that's still be a challenge, which honestly we understand, right? Like economy is tough, job situations are tough for many people. So we try to make it as flexible as possible as well. So like with our memberships, people now can pause anytime if you're traveling, etc. Which usually usually that's the feedback that we get that turns people off a membership, like, You know, I'm travelling quite a lot. Can I still make it a habit? Et cetera. So yeah, we're trying to accommodate like people's different lifestyles, et cetera. speaker-0: And so what have you seen in terms of the uptick in membership? That's how you're not. speaker-2: Honestly, I think very positive. From the time that we opened, I think roughly fifty percent of people who have been here come again. So I think that's that's very great traction for us. so and again, like I think a lot of it is about the experience itself. Also, what we see third definitely is a higher repurchase rate and people who come with their friends. Okay. Right. So another idea that we had when we opened this, as we were discussing earlier, is making it a social experience, right? Like Nobody, even if you've done co plunge twenty, fifty hundred times, nobody enjoys the experience to be suffering in the cold water. But if you do it together with your friends, actually it makes the whole thing a lot easier. Yeah. speaker-1: You bond together through suffering. speaker-2: It's like a form of trauma bonding. speaker-0: But we founders know all about trauma, right? Like 'cause what's the old Elon Musk quote? on staring eating glass and staring into the abyss is basically what being a founder is to so fucking hard. so I like that. I I should do all my coaching calls here. speaker-1: Thank you so too. Yeah. speaker-0: Start coaching my clients in the soda. Wow. And so you two are obviously, you know, obviously married, but You know, you're you're you found us together. You got you work at kind of different paces, as I understand, right? So you've got the the fast let's go and the methodical, you know, let's be very specific. Let's make a plan. Let's, you know, let's think about it. Yeah. As you have those different styles, where did you s first see yourselves as co-founders bumping heads? speaker-1: Some instances like so we did an event and it was just go go go. I wasn't quite it's I wasn't super like involved. I think Paul was speaking with the vendors like directly and I had a lot of things on my plate as well. and leading to the event just felt that it could have been executed a bit better and we did bump heads. We did bump hits. speaker-0: The windstrom pool says it all. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, for sure. but you know what, these are all learning experiences. Yeah. We we we have disagreements on the spot for sure, but I don't know for it. speaker-0: How then does that cause you know the big topic here is co founder relationships? Top five one in five reasons for companies to fail globally is this co founder breakups, fallouts. So you have your first bicker and then the first time this happens, you go home together. Do you have do you have like a really good once we walk through a door it it stays out? Is it something we talk about at the dinner table? Like how about that? speaker-1: Sounds like a good idea actually. speaker-0: I heard the speaker-2: I wish we had that degree of separation, but I think it's that's almost impossible. I mean, I think one of the other interesting things that Liv told me a few times now is like I dream about TCC. I wake up the first thing is about TCC. It's I think it's very hard to be a founder if you're not totally passionate about what you do and then to just like turn it off when I get home. To me, that's really hard to do, right? Impossible. So I think the way to resolve such situations is like we try to do something that I guess like focuses our mind elsewhere. Be that we do a session here together. That definitely helps. We take a walk with our dog. That also helps. Yeah. So all these things. speaker-1: We still talk about working the sauna and buckle down. Okay, and that'd be real. speaker-0: This is one of those this is one of those like family business problems though, the 'cause the business and the family becoming intertwined. Very true. Yeah. What things do you do that helps you not have to talk about work? speaker-1: Working out. Okay. Right? Yeah. I think when we work out we're just in our own element. Yeah. Hier alts, pedel, yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. And I think it's still important that in between all this busy schedule where we obviously are spending a crazy amount of time together, that there is still a little bit of time every week where we are spending it on our own for something. Yeah. I think that actually helps a lot as well to still have some level of separation, et cetera. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. That's great. speaker-2: Whoa. Are we dying in here? speaker-1: Maybe the next question should be outside, no. speaker-2: Ha ha. speaker-0: I think we are done. We are gonna let's go let's freeze our asses off. Let's get in. okay. You guys go first. speaker-2: Choy joy toy joy joy. Frøy! speaker-0: Ooh. speaker-2: okay, we're ready, Ben. speaker-0: Okay. So I don't remember my question. speaker-2: No pen. speaker-0: Okay. So who looks at the bank balance the most? speaker-1: We both soon. speaker-0: Both Okay. What's the time? How much on Who's checking WhatsApp for customer messages at midnight? speaker-2: Kind of obsessed kind of guy, that's right. speaker-0: Who's the content perfectionist? speaker-1: Mean. speaker-0: Who's the most optimistic of the two founders? speaker-2: We call it optimist, others might call it naive. speaker-0: Okay. don't have another question in my head. how often do you like stuff again? speaker-2: Here every day pretty much. Yes, of course. Recommend you do it too. speaker-0: Every day. Every day. Okay. I don't have another question for you. This is speaker-2: I think there was something along Who of Us takes the cold better? Yeah. speaker-0: Who tastes the cold butter? Not me. This is the hardest part of the interview because I can't remember half of what I'm supposed to ask you. what has been the biggest mistake so far? speaker-1: Probably at the paint shop in the retail speaker-2: Yeah, definitely. Having to close within the first three months. I mean, if you tell anyone that with the retail business they'll be like, what the fuck? speaker-1: Well the painful thing is that we always knew that it was happening. It's just a matter of when. Yeah. speaker-0: Okay. Okay. So you knew the mistake was coming, but you kinda just let's kick the can down the road. speaker-1: Take call. speaker-2: Fortunately not too late. speaker-0: I feel like that's a head dunkable. speaker-2: I'm not sure if I can dunk my head with this microphone. speaker-0: Lift them lift the mic up. How many minutes have we done? I feel like that's a three minutes. speaker-1: No one counted. Let's speaker-2: No, nobody's counting here. speaker-1: any other questions? speaker-0: two minutes okay well we gotta but I haven't got another question. Let's call it two minutes. Head speaker-2: Good. All right. speaker-0: dunk it out. Jeez speaker-1: No speaker-2: well done. speaker-0: Doing that will dump mic'd up is hard. All right, so we're in the best part. I would say most relaxing. As I was saying at the big like earlier on, this is a part where I get a lot of like my ideas. Sometimes I'm sat in here and I just start laughing with like, it was so obvious I should do this for my business, right? but obviously you guys come and do this this contrast therapy. on a regular basis, nearly every day, and you definitely do it at least once a week together. Be honest and you kind of breach a little bit in the sauna. How often does one of these weekly sessions turn into a bit of a meeting? speaker-2: Bull race. speaker-1: It always turns. I mean, speaker-0: Ha ha ha. speaker-1: listen, there's only so many hours in a day, you know. And we're pretty busy with our team, busy with operations, and when we come here, it's just we get to address things that that that we just don't have as much time for during the day. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Because that's accurate. And I'm not sure who has watched the latest Spider Man movie, but I think it's definitely becoming a practice. Best meeting location, sauna and bass. yeah. We know now. speaker-0: With the with the Russian girl. That yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-2: Okay, yeah. It's a time tradition as old as time because if I wanna have a meeting where I know my there's no bucks, yeah. Nobody listening at this meeting, you're not gonna stab me. This is where I will have it. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: No. Where do you think obviously when these are turning into meetings, would you say they become some of your more productive meetings? At least in the ideations, I perhaps not the actual writing stuff down. speaker-2: Yeah, I think definitely. I mean, again, I think the shock you get to your system, it kind of opens your mind. So sometimes it allows us to think outside of the box. yeah, look at ideas in a different way. You know what people say is like sometimes to think in a different way you also need to change your environment. Yeah. So definitely I think it can help to discuss things here rather than when you look in front of a laptop, etc. speaker-0: Absolutely. I think as well I I I used to have this as a as a kind of a protocol for myself and I also advise some people. Every quarter I like to step away from my usual work environment and do a planning session. And so what I used to do is I'll go to a two hour foot massage with my laptop and and plan and write stuff down. And I guess here you could with now all the technology of like note takers and stuff, you could like sit here with your phone and just be like Yeah, so I've been thinking about this and you could like plan out. Yeah. I could imagine. But I can see why this could be a really good place for co founders to come and even couples really to come and make air out and and and have a have a good experience. What would be your advice after I mean, you've been doing this for well over three months because three months you've been open. Yes. But let's be honest, the bill phase takes a lot of time. Mm-hmm. What would be your advice to another married couple who are thinking of deciding to becoming co founders? What should they look out for and what should they think about? speaker-1: I would say go for it. so long as the relationship is fundamentally strong, I suppose. what's the saying like don't have a baby to save your relationship? But speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: And this is a baby. speaker-2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: A full time baby. So yeah, I would say go for it. Just understand or learn along the way your strengths and your weaknesses and just play them to your advantage. Yeah. speaker-2: Yeah, I think that's very accurate. I mean, I think based on a relationship probably is like one way that you know your partner, but when you run a business together, actually you learn a lot of new perspective about your partner that you maybe didn't know or didn't see before. So in that way it can actually make your relationship even deeper and stronger. If you have the right attitude and mindset to handle challenges, etcetera, together. speaker-0: I think I liked both answers. I think really importantly, your relationship has to be strong fundamentally. Like you said, speaker-2: Don't do this with you've been together for six months, maybe. speaker-0: Yeah, unwise, unwise. guys, thank you so much for coming on the pod and and taking us through your protocol. I really appreciate it. speaker-2: Thank you, Ben. Great speaker-1: So much. speaker-2: having you. Yeah, it's good. speaker-0: Good. speaker-2: Sun, I would