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Hell and Gone Murder Line: Etan Patz · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

0:46
Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold
0:52
Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite
0:55
Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially
0:58
Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights
1:03
Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be
1:06
Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts
1:10
Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has
1:14
Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
1:17
Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply
1:21
Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime
1:24
Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.
1:29
Speaker 2: The morning of Friday, May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine
1:33
Speaker 2: started out like just another day for Julie Pate's and
1:37
Speaker 2: the rest of her family. Her husband, stand a photographer,
1:40
Speaker 2: and her children, eight year old Shira, six year old Aton,
1:44
Speaker 2: and two year old Ari. It was a busy morning.
1:48
Speaker 2: Julie ran a daycare out of her soho loft at
1:50
Speaker 2: one thirteen Prince Street in New York City. She was
1:54
Speaker 2: getting her own kids ready for the day and at
1:56
Speaker 2: the same time preparing for the influx of kids who
1:59
Speaker 2: would be arriving soon. Shia didn't want to roll out
2:03
Speaker 2: of bed, but Aton, who his family described as a sweet,
2:07
Speaker 2: loving and friendly boy, was excited to start his school day.
2:12
Speaker 2: Six year old Aton asked his mom if he could
2:15
Speaker 2: walk the two short blocks to the school bus stop
2:17
Speaker 2: alone for the very first time. He'd been asking his
2:21
Speaker 2: parents all year if he could take the bus to
2:23
Speaker 2: his school, PS three on Greenwich Street, and his mom
2:26
Speaker 2: and dad had always said no, But it was the
2:29
Speaker 2: last few weeks of the school year, and so his
2:31
Speaker 2: mom said okay. In her book After Aton, the Missing
2:36
Speaker 2: Childcase That Held America Captive, author Lisa Cohen detailed that
2:41
Speaker 2: morning for the Pates family. Julie got Shira and Aton dressed.
2:46
Speaker 2: Aton was wearing blue pants with a blue corduroy jacket,
2:50
Speaker 2: a T shirt with his light blue sneakers with fluorescent
2:53
Speaker 2: green stripes on the side, and a future flight captain
2:56
Speaker 2: pilot's cap. Julie was also packing for a trip. Some
3:01
Speaker 2: friends had invited their family to come to their country
3:04
Speaker 2: house for the weekend. Aton ate his breakfast toast and
3:08
Speaker 2: chocolate milk and picked up his blue lunch bag with
3:11
Speaker 2: white elephants. Julie later told the New York Times that
3:15
Speaker 2: she remembers him stuffing toy trucks into his school bag.
3:19
Speaker 2: Aton had a plan that day. He had a dollar
3:22
Speaker 2: in his pocket, which a neighborhood handyman had given him
3:25
Speaker 2: the day before when Aton helped him in his workshop.
3:28
Speaker 2: Aton was going to stop at the corner bodega at
3:31
Speaker 2: Prince and West Broadway and by a soda before getting
3:35
Speaker 2: on the bus. The kids left the house just before
3:38
Speaker 2: eight am. Julie followed Aton downstairs down the three floor walk.
3:44
Speaker 2: At the time, Julie told police she could see other
3:47
Speaker 2: kids and parents walking toward the bus stop, and she
3:50
Speaker 2: kissed her son goodbye as she watched him walk down
3:54
Speaker 2: the street. Before going back upstairs, she told herself that
3:58
Speaker 2: it was only two blocks. This was the last time
4:02
Speaker 2: that Julie ever saw her son. This case became a
4:07
Speaker 2: huge story, not just in New York, but in the
4:09
Speaker 2: entire country. Aton Pates became the literal poster child for
4:13
Speaker 2: missing children, and Julie and her husbands stand were the
4:16
Speaker 2: living embodiment of every parent's worst nightmare. What if your
4:21
Speaker 2: child disappeared one day and you never found out what
4:24
Speaker 2: really happened to them. I've wanted to talk about this
4:28
Speaker 2: case for a long time. I live in New York City,
4:32
Speaker 2: just a couple of blocks from Aton's house. This is
4:34
Speaker 2: a case that has, for lack of a better phrase,
4:38
Speaker 2: taken more tortuous twists and turns for these parents than
4:41
Speaker 2: any other case I've ever in investigated or researched. There
4:46
Speaker 2: is so much information out there about this case, a
4:49
Speaker 2: lot of it has never been made public in news reports,
4:53
Speaker 2: and forty six years later, this case is still active.
5:00
Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven years of making
5:03
Speaker 2: my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned that there's
5:07
Speaker 2: no such thing as a small town where murder never happens.
5:11
Speaker 2: I have received hundreds of messages from people all around
5:14
Speaker 2: the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's
5:17
Speaker 2: affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have
5:21
Speaker 2: a case you'd like me and my team to look into,
5:24
Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone
5:25
Speaker 2: Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six
5:29
Speaker 2: one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four
5:33
Speaker 2: six one four five, or you can send us a
5:36
Speaker 2: message on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. This is Helen
5:41
Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line. When Aton didn't come back from school
6:27
Speaker 2: at around three point thirty pm. His mother, Julie, was worried.
6:31
Speaker 2: She called the school, She called friends, no one had
6:34
Speaker 2: seen it. Julie found out later that Aton hadn't made
6:37
Speaker 2: it at all to school that day. In fact, the
6:40
Speaker 2: bus driver hadn't seen him board the bus, and parents
6:43
Speaker 2: and kids who police interviewed later, ones who knew Aton
6:47
Speaker 2: said they hadn't seen him waiting for the bus. Julie
6:51
Speaker 2: was frantic. She called her husband, Stan, who was uptown
6:54
Speaker 2: on a photoshoot. He immediately came home, and police quickly
6:58
Speaker 2: began searching for Aton. They canvassed the entire neighborhood. Two detectives,
7:04
Speaker 2: Detective Ianello and Detective Bill Butler, who both worked the
7:08
Speaker 2: case on the first day, told forty eight Hours that
7:11
Speaker 2: the case deeply affected them. They were both fathers, and
7:15
Speaker 2: when they looked at photos of Aton, they saw their
7:18
Speaker 2: own children. In nineteen eighty six, Bill Butler actually took
7:23
Speaker 2: his own life. According to forty eight Hours, Some people
7:26
Speaker 2: believed that his frustration over the lack of progress in
7:29
Speaker 2: the Aton Pates case contributed to his decision. Police got
7:35
Speaker 2: a picture from Stan, which became the iconic photo that
7:38
Speaker 2: people later saw on posters all over New York City
7:42
Speaker 2: and later on milk cart all across the country. The
7:46
Speaker 2: picture showed Aton, six years old, blonde hair and blue eyes,
7:50
Speaker 2: weighing fifty pounds, last seen at eight a m. At
7:54
Speaker 2: Prince and Wooster Street, headed for the bus stop. Soho
7:59
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine was a very different place than
8:02
Speaker 2: it is today. It was much grittier, and New York
8:05
Speaker 2: City in general had a much higher crime rate back then.
8:08
Speaker 2: At the same time, Aton and his family lived in
8:12
Speaker 2: a close knit artistic community, and Julie and Stan had
8:15
Speaker 2: been a part of the artistic community that built the neighborhood.
8:19
Speaker 2: They renovated a twenty one hundred square foot loft, which
8:23
Speaker 2: was pretty raw when they moved in, since most of
8:25
Speaker 2: the building was commercial space. The place had no water
8:28
Speaker 2: or electricity at first, so they built everything themselves. Stan
8:32
Speaker 2: put in the floors himself and did all the renovations.
8:36
Speaker 2: He built sleep lofts for the kids. Even though Soho
8:40
Speaker 2: had more crime back then, that area had tons of
8:44
Speaker 2: artists and everyone kind of knew everyone else. Famous artists
8:48
Speaker 2: like Philip Glass and Chuck Close were Julian Stan's neighbors,
8:51
Speaker 2: and everyone chipped in to help search for Aton. Volunteers
8:56
Speaker 2: formed the Aton Pates Action Committee. Fliers of Aton's face
9:00
Speaker 2: were posted everywhere while Stan and Julie called friends and
9:05
Speaker 2: walked around the neighborhood looking for Aton. At some point,
9:08
Speaker 2: a woman named Susan, who sometimes walked Aton to school
9:12
Speaker 2: during the nineteen seventy nine school bus strike that it
9:15
Speaker 2: ended ten days earlier, showed up at Stan and Julie's loft.
9:18
Speaker 2: She was planning to get their keys, since she was
9:21
Speaker 2: supposed to be house sitting that weekend while the family
9:24
Speaker 2: went to the country, but of course that trip was
9:26
Speaker 2: now canceled. In New York City and eventually all across
9:31
Speaker 2: the country, this story became big news, and unfortunately, not
9:36
Speaker 2: all of the people who contacted the family and police
9:39
Speaker 2: with tips were genuine or had good intentions. Julie and
9:43
Speaker 2: Stan set up a call center in their home. They
9:46
Speaker 2: talked to multiple people who demanded thousands of dollars for information.
9:52
Speaker 2: A few weeks after Aton disappeared, there was a news
9:54
Speaker 2: story about Aton potentially being alive in Massachusetts. Later, it
9:59
Speaker 2: came out the tipster wanted one thousand dollars in reward
10:02
Speaker 2: money for giving this information. To journalists. The information turned
10:06
Speaker 2: out to be bogus, and the tipster had called more
10:09
Speaker 2: than one publication to try to get money out of them.
10:13
Speaker 2: There were also rumors that Stan and Julie had somehow
10:16
Speaker 2: been involved, or that they did the whole thing as
10:19
Speaker 2: some kind of publicity stunt. Now there was zero evidence
10:22
Speaker 2: for that, but that didn't stop some people from gossiping
10:25
Speaker 2: and from ripping down missing posters. Even some police officers
10:30
Speaker 2: were suspicious of Aton's parents. One of the officers made
10:34
Speaker 2: the comment to investigators in twenty twelve that he had
10:37
Speaker 2: been a little bit suspicious of Stan because, in his opinion,
10:41
Speaker 2: Stan hadn't immediately started helping in the search. Instead, he
10:45
Speaker 2: was working on his computer. As I read about this case,
10:49
Speaker 2: I just could not imagine what Stan and Julie must
10:51
Speaker 2: have been going through. Not only were they dealing with
10:54
Speaker 2: reporters basically stalking them, hanging out outside their doors, but
10:59
Speaker 2: they had to deal with all these people making comments,
11:02
Speaker 2: especially to Julie, statements implying that it was basically her fault.
11:08
Speaker 2: The NYPD's first Precinct, which covers all of Lower Manhattan
11:12
Speaker 2: south of Houston Street, continued to work the case. We
11:16
Speaker 2: were able to access a lot of information about their
11:18
Speaker 2: investigation through FOYA, but most of what I saw focused
11:23
Speaker 2: on the police's later investigation starting in twenty twelve. From
11:28
Speaker 2: those files we were able to see police went back
11:31
Speaker 2: and talked to a lot of the officers who worked
11:34
Speaker 2: the initial scene. Police canvass the entire area. They had
11:39
Speaker 2: officers crawling into drain pipes, climbing into freezers, into basement
11:44
Speaker 2: and crawl spaces. Eventually, they went down to city Hall
11:47
Speaker 2: to get the plans for every single building in the area,
11:50
Speaker 2: including a lot of empty commercial properties, so that they
11:54
Speaker 2: could search everywhere. Everyone had a theory. Some people wondered
11:59
Speaker 2: if it was possible that Aton missed the bus and
12:01
Speaker 2: walked back home. Since he was too short to reach
12:05
Speaker 2: the buzzer, maybe he went somewhere else. Police brought in bloodhounds,
12:11
Speaker 2: who alerted near the Patess loft. The dog stopped at
12:15
Speaker 2: Jim Lumber, three blocks away on Spring Street. This was
12:18
Speaker 2: a place that Aton had stopped by on several occasions,
12:21
Speaker 2: but the dogs got no further. The owner of the
12:25
Speaker 2: store told The New York Times that he had seen
12:27
Speaker 2: Aton and another boy in the dumpster pulling out scraps
12:31
Speaker 2: of Wood. He thought that he saw them that day
12:33
Speaker 2: after school May twenty fifth, at around four thirty or
12:36
Speaker 2: five pm, but later admitted he had probably been wrong
12:41
Speaker 2: about the day. Weeks and months passed, there was no
12:45
Speaker 2: ransom note or any sign of Aton. According to Lisa
12:49
Speaker 2: Cohen's book, police even used hypnosis on Julie to help
12:53
Speaker 2: her recall every single detail of what happened the morning
12:57
Speaker 2: her son vanished. Aton's father, Stan started to consider one
13:02
Speaker 2: of two scenarios. A very sad woman desperate for a
13:06
Speaker 2: child of her own had kidnapped Aton to raise him.
13:09
Speaker 2: In that theory, the kidnapper would raise Aton and keep
13:13
Speaker 2: him safe. Stan's other theory was that a stranger had
13:17
Speaker 2: taken Aton and killed him. Police followed up on leeds
13:22
Speaker 2: all over the world, even decades later, when they interviewed
13:26
Speaker 2: and ultimately discounted someone in Europe who claimed to be Aton.
13:31
Speaker 2: Several other people called and claimed to be Stan and
13:33
Speaker 2: Julie's son as an adult as the years passed, but
13:37
Speaker 2: none of the leads or sightings ever checked out. Time
13:42
Speaker 2: went by, as the neighbor he had gentrified, and an
13:44
Speaker 2: upscale eyeglass store moved to the spot where the Bodega
13:48
Speaker 2: used to be. Stan and Julie stayed put. They wanted
13:51
Speaker 2: to be in the same place in case, by some miracle,
13:54
Speaker 2: Aton came home, though they did tell reporters over the
13:58
Speaker 2: years they'd accepted this would probably never happen. According to
14:03
Speaker 2: forty eight Hours, Over the years, there were a lot
14:06
Speaker 2: of tips submitted to police claiming that Aton had been
14:09
Speaker 2: stolen by a Colton Westchester, or had been trafficked, or
14:13
Speaker 2: was living under another name in Europe. In nineteen eighty three,
14:17
Speaker 2: President Ronald Reagan designated May twenty fifth, the day that
14:20
Speaker 2: Aton went missing, as National Missing Children's Day. In nineteen
14:25
Speaker 2: eighty five, the case was passed to assistant US Attorney
14:28
Speaker 2: Stuart Grebois, and soon he publicly identified as suspect a
14:34
Speaker 2: convicted child molester named Jose Antonio Ramos. Assisting US attorney
14:50
Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois identified Jose Ramos as a suspect in Aton
14:54
Speaker 2: Pates's case in nineteen eighty five, nearly six years after
14:58
Speaker 2: Aton went missing, Jose was being held in Pennsylvania on
15:02
Speaker 2: suspicion of child molestation. Stuart Grabois learned that multiple boys
15:06
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two had accused Jose of trying to
15:09
Speaker 2: get them to come into a drain pipe with him.
15:12
Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois told forty eight Hours that he and the
15:15
Speaker 2: FBI had learned that Jose Ramos traveled the country in
15:19
Speaker 2: a converted school bus and lured children in using matchbox
15:23
Speaker 2: cars and other toys and then molested them. Not only that,
15:28
Speaker 2: but Jose had a connection to the Pates family. At
15:32
Speaker 2: the time of Aton's disappearance. Jose had been dating their
15:36
Speaker 2: sometimes house sitter, Susan, the woman who had walked Aton
15:40
Speaker 2: to school during that bus strike. It turned out that
15:44
Speaker 2: people in Aton's building knew Jose, but they knew him
15:48
Speaker 2: by another name, Michael, and Michael had also spent time
15:52
Speaker 2: with Susan's son, Barrett in nineteen seventy nine. Barrett was
15:56
Speaker 2: four years old at the time when Aton went missing.
16:00
Speaker 2: This seemed like a promising lead. Stuart Grabois arranged to
16:04
Speaker 2: be deputized in Pennsylvania so that he could work on
16:07
Speaker 2: prosecuting Jose Ramos for the charges there and to interview
16:11
Speaker 2: him about any possible involvement in Aton's case. Jose Ramos
16:16
Speaker 2: admitted that he took a boy back up to his
16:18
Speaker 2: apartment to rape him on the day that Aton disappeared.
16:23
Speaker 2: At the time, Jose Ramos was staying in an apartment
16:26
Speaker 2: in the East Village on East thirteenth Street. He said
16:29
Speaker 2: that on the day Aton disappeared, he was milling around
16:33
Speaker 2: Washington Square Park. He said that he saw a boy
16:36
Speaker 2: playing handball. Jose said he was ninety percent sure that
16:40
Speaker 2: this was the boy he saw on TV, though he
16:43
Speaker 2: never mentioned by his real name. Jose said the boy
16:46
Speaker 2: told him his name was Jimmy and that he had
16:49
Speaker 2: an aunt living in Washington Heights. Jose said he lured
16:53
Speaker 2: the boy up to his apartment, gave him apple juice,
16:56
Speaker 2: and started to feel around his legs. He said at
16:58
Speaker 2: some point the boy got uncomfortable. Then Jose claimed that
17:02
Speaker 2: he lifted the boy up and tried to have sex
17:04
Speaker 2: with him, but that the boy kept saying no, he
17:07
Speaker 2: didn't want to do that. Jose claimed that the boys
17:11
Speaker 2: said he needed to go to school, and then Jose
17:15
Speaker 2: said he stopped assaulting him and walked out of the
17:18
Speaker 2: apartment with him. He said they got into a taxi
17:21
Speaker 2: to go back to Soho, but that at some point
17:23
Speaker 2: the boy changed his mind and said he wanted to
17:25
Speaker 2: go uptown to Washington Heights to visit that aunt. Jose
17:30
Speaker 2: claimed that he bought the boy a subway token and
17:33
Speaker 2: left him to get on the train at the sixth
17:35
Speaker 2: Avenue train station, waving goodbye as he left. Investigators were
17:41
Speaker 2: not buying this story. They suspense that Jose was lying. Logistically,
17:46
Speaker 2: in my opinion, the Washington Square Park meeting does not
17:50
Speaker 2: seem to make a lot of sense. Aton was very
17:54
Speaker 2: clearly headed to school when he left home. Washington Square
17:57
Speaker 2: Park is several blocks north of there. But I also
18:01
Speaker 2: think that it could be more plausible Jose could have
18:04
Speaker 2: encountered Aton back near his parents' apartment. He did hang
18:08
Speaker 2: out at the Pate's apartment building with Susan. She was
18:11
Speaker 2: due to come to the Pates loft that day to
18:14
Speaker 2: get the keys to their apartment. Even though Jose had
18:18
Speaker 2: sketchy details and didn't use Aton's name, Stuart Grabois was
18:23
Speaker 2: convinced that this was the guy who took Aton, and
18:26
Speaker 2: he was convinced of that for decades. Stuart Grabois had
18:30
Speaker 2: an informant from inside the prison. Much later, this jail
18:34
Speaker 2: house informant testified in court that while he and Jose
18:37
Speaker 2: Ramos were cellmates, that Jose confessed to him that he
18:41
Speaker 2: had molested and murdered Aton. The informant, Jeffrey Rothschild, said
18:46
Speaker 2: Jose told Aton that what they were doing was good.
18:50
Speaker 2: Jeffrey claimed that he asked Jose if Aton was dead.
18:54
Speaker 2: He said Jose responded, quote, what do you think. Of
18:57
Speaker 2: course he's dead, but they'll never find a body. There's
19:00
Speaker 2: no proof. End quote. In nineteen eighty two, Jose Ramos
19:06
Speaker 2: was living on the streets in a drain pipe. Inside
19:09
Speaker 2: that drain pipe, according to The New York Post, he
19:12
Speaker 2: had religious items, a mattress, and a bunch of children's toys.
19:17
Speaker 2: That year, Jose was arrested and charged in connection with
19:20
Speaker 2: trying to lure two young boys into his makeshift home.
19:24
Speaker 2: During the course of that investigation, police found several photos
19:29
Speaker 2: of young boys, some in front of X rated theaters
19:32
Speaker 2: in Times Square, others in the drain pipe, including one
19:37
Speaker 2: young boy with blonde hair that police said resembled Aton.
19:42
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty eight, awfording to the book, Stuart Grabois
19:46
Speaker 2: told Stan Pates about his theory that Jose Ramos had
19:50
Speaker 2: molested and killed Aton. Stan had to absorb the horrific
19:55
Speaker 2: reality that a man charged with luring young boys into
19:59
Speaker 2: a drain pipe might have taken his son and to
20:02
Speaker 2: consider the implications of what he might have done with him.
20:07
Speaker 2: Stuart Grabois and his team questioned Stan, Julie, and a
20:11
Speaker 2: lot of their neighbors about their recollections of Jose and
20:14
Speaker 2: Susan and susan son. Stuart Grabois actually interviewed Susan's son,
20:19
Speaker 2: who again was four years old at the time of
20:21
Speaker 2: Aton's disappearance. The son told Stuart Grabois that Jose had
20:26
Speaker 2: touched him inappropriately. Back then, though the statute of limitations
20:30
Speaker 2: on child molestation was only nine years so a lot
20:34
Speaker 2: of the allegations against Jose Ramos could not be prosecuted.
20:40
Speaker 2: Despite Stuart Graboa's suspicions and the FBI helping with the investigation,
20:45
Speaker 2: investigators had no physical evidence and no witnesses. Jose's confession
20:51
Speaker 2: did have details about Aton having fluorescent stripes on his
20:55
Speaker 2: tennis shoes, but those details were public at that point.
20:58
Speaker 2: They were all over missing posters, and other details didn't
21:01
Speaker 2: seem to match. For example, Jose said the boy he
21:05
Speaker 2: assaulted was wearing a Western belt and he never mentioned
21:09
Speaker 2: Aton by name. Jose Ramos did get a prison sentence
21:14
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, after being convicted of sexually assaulting an eight
21:17
Speaker 2: year old boy there, but in the end, Jose was
21:21
Speaker 2: never charged in connection with Aton's abduction. Stan and Julie
21:25
Speaker 2: were understandably devastated at this turn of events. The district
21:30
Speaker 2: attorney at the time, Robert Morgenthal, just never felt that
21:34
Speaker 2: there was enough evidence to prosecute. In two thousand, Stan
21:38
Speaker 2: and Julie started to explore the idea of launching a
21:40
Speaker 2: civil wrongful death lawsuit against Jose Ramos. In two thousand
21:44
Speaker 2: and four, they filed that suit. Julie went through the
21:48
Speaker 2: very painful emotional process of having Aton legally declared dead
21:52
Speaker 2: in two thousand and one so that they would be
21:54
Speaker 2: able to file the lawsuit. They won a two million
21:58
Speaker 2: dollar judgment in that case, but they were never paid.
22:01
Speaker 2: Jose Ramos ended up serving twenty seven years in prison
22:05
Speaker 2: in total for the assault on the eight year old
22:07
Speaker 2: and a second offense with a child. He was released
22:10
Speaker 2: on November seventh, twenty twelve. For years this case went quiet, Stan,
22:17
Speaker 2: Julie and their children tried to move on with their lives.
22:21
Speaker 2: Aton's case struck fears into the heart of families in
22:24
Speaker 2: the city and around the country, and made families much
22:27
Speaker 2: more aware of stranger danger. Over the years, Stan and
22:31
Speaker 2: Julie became advocates for missing children. They campaigned for laws
22:34
Speaker 2: that would make it easier and faster for law enforcement
22:37
Speaker 2: agencies to share information about missing children, and they never
22:41
Speaker 2: gave up. Stan gods involved in Manhattan's District attorney races,
22:47
Speaker 2: and in twenty ten he persuaded the new district Attorney,
22:52
Speaker 2: Cyrus Vance Junior, to take another look at the case,
22:56
Speaker 2: which investigators did, and then suddenly, in twenty twelve, there
23:01
Speaker 2: was a massive break in the case and once again
23:05
Speaker 2: Aton Pates made headlines. News broke that FBI investigators were
23:11
Speaker 2: raiding a soho basement at one twenty seven B Prince Street,
23:14
Speaker 2: where Aton's sister had once attended daycare. They were looking
23:19
Speaker 2: for blood and human remains. In twenty twelve, thirty three
23:33
Speaker 2: years after Aton Pates disappeared during a short two block
23:37
Speaker 2: walk to the school bus stop, the FBI started searching
23:41
Speaker 2: the basement of a building near where he lived, the
23:44
Speaker 2: same building that once housed his sister's daycare. The New
23:49
Speaker 2: York Post interviewed some of the parents who had taken
23:51
Speaker 2: their children there. There were around thirteen kids who played
23:54
Speaker 2: there regularly, including Aton and his sister Shira. It turned
23:59
Speaker 2: out they suspected the handyman who had done work at
24:02
Speaker 2: the daycare. His name was othaneil Miller, and he was
24:06
Speaker 2: actually the same handyman who had also done work for
24:09
Speaker 2: Stan and Julie, according to forty eight Hours, and Othan
24:13
Speaker 2: neil Miller was the person who paid Aton a dollar
24:16
Speaker 2: the day before for helping him with a task in
24:19
Speaker 2: his workshop, the same dollar that Aton so proudly carried
24:23
Speaker 2: to the bus stop on the day he went missing.
24:26
Speaker 2: Authorities obtained a search warrant after Othniel's ex wife told
24:30
Speaker 2: law enforcement that he raped his ten year old niece.
24:33
Speaker 2: A few years after Aton's disappearance, Othnil's attorneys and family
24:38
Speaker 2: said he had cooperated with police since the very beginning
24:42
Speaker 2: and that he had nothing to do with aton subduction.
24:45
Speaker 2: The New York Post reported that back in nineteen seventy nine,
24:49
Speaker 2: investigators had noticed freshly poured concrete in Othneil's workshop, but
24:54
Speaker 2: apparently police decided not to dig up the concrete because
24:58
Speaker 2: they were told they would have to pay for repairs.
25:01
Speaker 2: A local artist, Steve Cosma, told the Post that the
25:05
Speaker 2: workshop in the building looked like kind of a labyrinth, saying, quote,
25:09
Speaker 2: every time I went down there, there was a different wall.
25:12
Speaker 2: It was a maze. Othaniil probably put in some of
25:15
Speaker 2: those walls end quote. During the search in twenty twelve,
25:20
Speaker 2: a cadaver dog alerted to possible human remains, and police
25:24
Speaker 2: did dig up the concrete. Also, according to WNBCTV News,
25:29
Speaker 2: police were examining what they called a stain of interest
25:32
Speaker 2: on a piece of drywall. Later it was reported the
25:35
Speaker 2: stain tested negative for blood. The NYPD and FBI stayed
25:41
Speaker 2: down there a long time. They sprayed lumino, they did
25:44
Speaker 2: other testing. They kept digging, and they found bones. But
25:50
Speaker 2: the bones found under the concrete of the old daycare
25:53
Speaker 2: that was just one block away from where Aton Pates
25:56
Speaker 2: had lived with his family, turned out to be animal bones,
26:00
Speaker 2: which sources told NBC News actually came from Chinese takeout containers,
26:06
Speaker 2: another dead end. NBC also reported that investigators questioned a
26:11
Speaker 2: man who once worked with Othanil Miller named Jesse Snell.
26:15
Speaker 2: He was reportedly seen at the SOHO building the day
26:18
Speaker 2: that Aton vanished. But in the end, investigators found nothing
26:23
Speaker 2: of evidentiary value, and neither Othnil nor anyone else they
26:27
Speaker 2: questioned in connection with that basement where Aton had played
26:30
Speaker 2: were ever charged, but the headlines about the case brought
26:34
Speaker 2: forward more tips, including one that would massively change the
26:38
Speaker 2: direction of the case and focus police on yet another suspect.
26:44
Speaker 2: The brother in law of a man named Pedro Hernandez
26:47
Speaker 2: contacted police. Pedro was eighteen years old at the time
26:50
Speaker 2: when Aton disappeared. He had been working at that corner
26:54
Speaker 2: bodega at Prince in West Broadway, right by the bus
26:57
Speaker 2: stop where Aton planned to stop, and by soda. Shortly
27:01
Speaker 2: after Aton disappeared, Pedro had left the area and moved
27:04
Speaker 2: back home to New Jersey. Over the years, he had
27:07
Speaker 2: gotten married and had children. The brother in law told
27:11
Speaker 2: police that back in the early eighties, Pedro made remarks
27:14
Speaker 2: in a church group about having killed a child in
27:17
Speaker 2: New York City. Pedro's sister and another church member confirmed
27:22
Speaker 2: that Pedro had commented in this group retreat in the
27:25
Speaker 2: early eighties that he possibly killed a child, but stated
27:29
Speaker 2: no one in that group ever called the police. Police
27:33
Speaker 2: had actually interviewed Pedro during their initial canvas, but he
27:36
Speaker 2: was never really on their radar. Pedro never mentioned Aton's
27:41
Speaker 2: name or anything specific about the crime to that church group,
27:44
Speaker 2: But in twenty twelve police started to take a closer
27:48
Speaker 2: look at him. Pedro was living in Maple Shade, New Jersey.
27:52
Speaker 2: Police went to his home to talk to him. Pedro
27:55
Speaker 2: agreed to come to the Prosecutor's office in New Jersey
27:57
Speaker 2: to talk to investigators. In a first interview, which happened
28:02
Speaker 2: off camera, he initially denied any involvement in Aton's abduction
28:06
Speaker 2: and murder, but then he confessed. Pedro said he lured
28:12
Speaker 2: Aton into the bodega's basement by offering him a soda.
28:15
Speaker 2: Then he said he strangled him and threw his body
28:18
Speaker 2: into a produce box. Pedro said that Ayton was still
28:22
Speaker 2: breathing when he put him in that box, carried the
28:25
Speaker 2: box out and put it out with the trash. Pedro
28:30
Speaker 2: was arrested and charged with Aton's murder two days before
28:34
Speaker 2: the thirty third anniversary of Aton's disappearance. But it turned
28:38
Speaker 2: out there was some very serious problems with Pedro's confession.
28:42
Speaker 2: First of all, the police did not read him his
28:45
Speaker 2: rights until several hours into questioning, and he wasn't videotaped
28:49
Speaker 2: for the first six hours that he was in with police.
28:53
Speaker 2: They then asked Pedro to confess again on videotape, which
28:56
Speaker 2: he did, and he signed a missing poster of Aton,
29:00
Speaker 2: saying I'm sorry I choke him, but then later he
29:04
Speaker 2: took back those confessions. Also, Pedro had a low IQ and,
29:09
Speaker 2: according to his attorney, a history of mental illness. At times,
29:13
Speaker 2: the attorney claimed Pedro had delusions, very vivid hallucinations that
29:18
Speaker 2: seemed real. Police questioned Pedro for seven hours. His council
29:24
Speaker 2: claimed that by the end of all this, because Pedro
29:27
Speaker 2: was susceptible to this type of manipulation, the police probably
29:31
Speaker 2: had him convinced that he did kill Aton. At the
29:34
Speaker 2: time of the confession. Pedro was also on medication, including fentanyl,
29:39
Speaker 2: to deal with his mental health conditions. His lawyers stated
29:42
Speaker 2: in court had a schizotypal personality disorder, which included, according
29:47
Speaker 2: to the New York Times quote, symptoms such as severe
29:50
Speaker 2: social anxiety, paranoia, and odd beliefs end quote. The defense
29:55
Speaker 2: psychiatrists said Pedro heard voices, had visions, and was unable
30:00
Speaker 2: to distinguish reality from fantasy. His attorney also told forty
30:05
Speaker 2: eight Hours there were parts of Pedro's story that didn't
30:08
Speaker 2: make any sense, including the fact Pedro said he saw
30:12
Speaker 2: Aton at the bus stop that morning. There were a
30:14
Speaker 2: lot of children and parents who were congregated. There some
30:17
Speaker 2: people who knew Aton. None of them said they saw
30:20
Speaker 2: Pedro or Aton that morning. The evidence points to Aton
30:26
Speaker 2: never making it to that bus stop. Pedro was charged
30:30
Speaker 2: with second degree murder and he pleaded not guilty. In
30:33
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, he went on trial for the murder of
30:36
Speaker 2: Aton Pates in Manhattan State Supreme Court, but the jurors
30:40
Speaker 2: failed to reach a verdict. One juror refused to convict
30:43
Speaker 2: because of several factors like the lack of physical evidence
30:47
Speaker 2: and the problems with the confession. The judge was forced
30:50
Speaker 2: to declare a mistrial. Another problem with that trial, by
30:53
Speaker 2: the way, was the fact that police had for years
30:57
Speaker 2: very publicly focused on Jose Ramos, and Pedro's attorneys presented
31:02
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence that they claim show that Jose
31:05
Speaker 2: Ramos could have killed Aton. In twenty seventeen, Pedro Hernandez
31:10
Speaker 2: went on trial again. This time he was found guilty
31:14
Speaker 2: and convicted of murder. He was sentenced to twenty five
31:18
Speaker 2: years to life in prison. His lawyers continued to deny
31:22
Speaker 2: that he had any involvement in Aton's murder. They insisted
31:25
Speaker 2: the only reason he confessed was due to his mental illness,
31:28
Speaker 2: the one that caused him to hallucinate. And again there
31:32
Speaker 2: was no physical evidence and no witness. According to WNYC.
31:37
Speaker 2: At the sentencing hearing, Stan and Julie said they would
31:40
Speaker 2: never forgive Pedro Hernandez for what he had done to
31:43
Speaker 2: their son. Stan said, quote, Pedro Hernandez, after all these years,
31:48
Speaker 2: we finally know what dark secret you had locked in
31:51
Speaker 2: your heart. You took our precious child and threw him
31:55
Speaker 2: in the garbage. I will never forgive you. The god
31:59
Speaker 2: you pray to will never forgive you. End quote. Stan
32:04
Speaker 2: and Julie's decades long nightmare seemed to finally be coming
32:08
Speaker 2: to an end until earlier this year, when there was
32:12
Speaker 2: another bombshell development in this case. In late June of
32:16
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, an appeals court throughout Pedro Hernandez's murder conviction.
32:23
Speaker 2: Their reasoning was that they found the judge had given
32:25
Speaker 2: the jury incorrect instructions. According to a legal expert who
32:30
Speaker 2: spoke to CBS, jurors sent a note that asked the
32:33
Speaker 2: judge a question. The issue was whether or not Pedro's
32:36
Speaker 2: first confession, the one that was made before police started videotaping,
32:40
Speaker 2: was voluntary or not. They asked the judge if the
32:44
Speaker 2: confession wasn't voluntary, would that effect the rest of the case,
32:47
Speaker 2: and the judge said no, that it would not. The
32:50
Speaker 2: appeals court found that that answer by the judge was wrong.
32:55
Speaker 2: One of Pedro's lawyer's, Harvey Fischbein, told The New York Times,
32:59
Speaker 2: that the ruling proved that Pedro was innocent. He suggested
33:03
Speaker 2: that DA should set Pedro free and focus on finding
33:06
Speaker 2: the real killer. New York City prosecutors announced in September
33:11
Speaker 2: they planned to petition the U. S. Supreme Court to
33:13
Speaker 2: restore Pedro's murder conviction. They argued that the decision by
33:17
Speaker 2: the appeals court raised substantial legal questions, but a judge
33:22
Speaker 2: recently ruled Pedro must be freed unless he is retried
33:25
Speaker 2: within a reasonable period, So right now this case is
33:29
Speaker 2: in limbo. On September sixteenth, twenty twenty five, the New
33:35
Speaker 2: York Post report of the Manhattan District Attorney's office has
33:38
Speaker 2: asked the Second U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals to
33:40
Speaker 2: wait to enforce their decision. According to The New York Post,
33:44
Speaker 2: but Pedro's lawyers are opposing this request for more time.
33:49
Speaker 2: So Pedro Hernandez's conviction has been overthrown, but for now
33:53
Speaker 2: he's still behind bars. Where does that lead the case?
33:58
Speaker 2: The evidence against Pedro Hernandez, in my opinion, is weak,
34:02
Speaker 2: especially considering how much more that jury's and the general
34:05
Speaker 2: public now know about false confessions now versus back then.
34:10
Speaker 2: Could detectives go back and try to build a case
34:13
Speaker 2: again against Jose Ramos. That's a weird situation as well,
34:17
Speaker 2: because while it seems as though he's a viable enough
34:20
Speaker 2: suspect to raise reasonable doubt in court, to my knowledge,
34:24
Speaker 2: there's not enough evidence, at least not anything that's been
34:27
Speaker 2: revealed publicly to bring him in and charge him. Either.
34:31
Speaker 2: Could it have been Jose Ramos, is there some piece
34:35
Speaker 2: of evidence against him that slipped through the cracks, or
34:39
Speaker 2: could one of the other suspects who aton encountered that
34:41
Speaker 2: morning in nineteen seventy nine, or someone else who has
34:45
Speaker 2: never been mentioned be responsible for his disappearance. One other
34:50
Speaker 2: thing that this case highlights is how many potential predators
34:54
Speaker 2: that that six year old boy passed in the two
34:56
Speaker 2: short blocks to his bus stop on that Friday morning.
35:00
Speaker 2: Maybe someone out there knows some of these people, and
35:04
Speaker 2: maybe that person will come forward. Aton's parents have had
35:08
Speaker 2: to relive that day again and again. But there's no
35:12
Speaker 2: statute of limitations on murder, So if you are out there,
35:16
Speaker 2: it is never too late to come forward and to
35:18
Speaker 2: help Aton's parents find answers. Eventually, after more than forty
35:28
Speaker 2: years in the Prince Street loft, Stan and Julie sold
35:31
Speaker 2: that apartment and moved to Hawaii to focus on spending
35:34
Speaker 2: time with their family, including their grandchildren. To this day,
35:38
Speaker 2: Aton pates his body has never been found. I'm Catherine Ta.
35:44
Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line
35:50
Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.
35:54
Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced
35:57
Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her
36:01
Speaker 2: research assistance and James Wheaton for legal review. Noah Camera
36:05
Speaker 2: mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song is by
36:08
Speaker 2: Ben Sale. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. Crowley.
36:14
Speaker 2: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the
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Speaker 2: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you
36:21
Speaker 2: were interested in seeing documents and materials from the case.
36:24
Speaker 2: You can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod.
36:29
Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my
36:31
Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us
36:33
Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight
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