Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / Small Business Recovery Through Collaboration with Dave Walker

Transcript

Small Business Recovery Through Collaboration with Dave Walker · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

• 0:01
  Hi.
• 0:02
  This is Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady host of the small Bizchett podcast.
• 0:06
  I want to serve you.
• 0:07
  This pandemic has been so hard on America's small businesses and on just America in
• 0:12
  general.
• 0:13
  If you're ready to start your dream business, boy, do I have a great offer for you?
• 0:17
  I am giving away 1000 copies of my best selling book, become your own boss in 12 months.
• 0:23
  Over a hundred thousand people have this book It has been printed in multiple languages
• 0:28
  around the world, and I wanted to find a way to serve America small businesses in this
• 0:33
  pandemic.
• 0:33
  And so I am giving away a 1000 copies of my book.
• 0:37
  All you have to do to get your copy is head over to begin my biz dotcom slash free offer
• 0:44
  to, you know, sign up for your copy.
• 0:46
  All you have to do is pay shipping, and we will mail one out to you.
• 0:49
  I am so excited about this.
• 0:51
  I wanna serve you.
• 0:52
  Grab your copy today.
• 0:56
  Ending small business failure.
• 0:58
  Welcome to the small biz chat podcast with a number one small business expert, Melinda
• 1:04
  Emerson.
• 1:05
  Melinda's goal is to end small business failure, and she'll give you the information
• 1:09
  you need succeed and live the life you dream of.
• 1:13
  Now here's the small biz lady herself.
• 1:16
  Melinda Everson.
• 1:19
  Hi.
• 1:19
  I'm Melinda Everson's small business lady.
• 1:22
  America's number one small business expert and I would like to welcome you to the Small Bench
• 1:27
  Chat podcast.
• 1:28
  With that, allow me to introduce my guest.
• 1:31
  His name is Dave Walker, and he's the founder of the B to SMB Institute.
• 1:37
  He has spent 30 years plus as a business innovator floating in between Fortune Fifty
• 1:42
  Firms and lean startups that are scaling.
• 1:45
  He lives for innovation, but loves execution from methodical research to bursts of
• 1:51
  creativity He loves big picture vision, but he trusts discipline, facts, agility, and sweat.
• 1:58
  And as the CEO, he hates to fail, but he embraces failure as a tough teacher.
• 2:03
  For more information, you go to his website, bdsmbi.com.
• 2:08
  Hey, Dave.
• 2:09
  Thank you so much for braving the code with me to talk about the small recovery, or excuse me,
• 2:16
  the small business recovery, not the small business chat recovery.
• 2:18
  That's still going.
• 2:19
  That's still strong.
• 2:21
  So let's talk about it.
• 2:23
  You know, talk to us first about your organization and what you guys do that really
• 2:28
  ultimately advocates for small business owners.
• 2:30
  Well, listen, first.
• 2:31
  Thanks so much for having me.
• 2:32
  And, yes, I'm braving the cold.
• 2:34
  I'm here in Chicago.
• 2:35
  It'll be minus 4 tonight.
• 2:36
  We've got about 3 feet of snow on the ground that doesn't wanna melt.
• 2:39
  And all I can say is I'm glad I'm not in Texas.
• 2:42
  That's that's really, really, I guess, where my head's at.
• 2:45
  But, you know, the B2SMB Institute, first of all, B2S SMB stands for business to small
• 2:51
  business.
• 2:52
  And the reason I started it back in 2017 was because I had just sold a startup that focused
• 3:01
  on giving marketing advice to small businesses, had grown it over 6 years, and it met many
• 3:08
  marketers, salespeople, product development people from very large companies who were
• 3:14
  selling products and services to small business.
• 3:16
  So American Express, Microsoft, Sprint, Square, Indeed, legal Zoom, And I as I worked with a
• 3:26
  lot of these professionals inside these organizations, I realized that They had many of
• 3:32
  the same frustrations and challenges, specifically as related to small businesses.
• 3:38
  They didn't know how to reach them effectively.
• 3:40
  Once they reached them, it was tough to engage them.
• 3:42
  Once they engage them, it was tough to qualify and sell them and close them.
• 3:46
  Once they close them, it was hard to support them.
• 3:48
  Get them to adopt, adopt their products and services.
• 3:51
  Long story short is we built a community so that these professionals could frankly exchange
• 3:57
  ideas and insights and resources between each other so they could better serve small
• 4:02
  business.
• 4:02
  So that's our mission is really in a kind of a backdoor way helps small businesses by helping
• 4:09
  the large brands who are selling products and services to them.
• 4:12
  Now how big is your organization?
• 4:13
  How many members do you have?
• 4:14
  So we have over now over 200 plus major brands, our members, and over 4000 individuals.
• 4:21
  So we've grown pretty substantially to really represent professionals in in all aspects of
• 4:27
  selling products and services to small business.
• 4:29
  Good stuff.
• 4:30
  Good stuff.
• 4:30
  Alright.
• 4:31
  So let's talk about the state of small business.
• 4:35
  You know, the COVID 19 killed a lot of people, but COVID 19 killed a lot of small businesses
• 4:41
  too.
• 4:42
  Mhmm.
• 4:42
  That sure did.
• 4:43
  And, you know, unfortunately, we don't know the magnitude of the impact right now.
• 4:48
  Nobody has a really good sense of it.
• 4:51
  Because, frankly, it's tough to report out and really track all those one person small
• 4:59
  businesses that have had to close.
• 5:01
  And all of those businesses that weren't incorporated necessarily.
• 5:05
  You know, they were a small shop and, you know, maybe two or three people, and they never
• 5:09
  really went to the you know, to to incorporate in some state.
• 5:14
  We don't know really frankly how well the surveys that are being done everyone in
• 5:19
  existence.
• 5:20
  It seems like at a government level to try and track business closures.
• 5:25
  And frankly, there's a lot of businesses who are kind of I would call them in suspended
• 5:29
  animation.
• 5:30
  They're not open.
• 5:31
  They're not doing business, but they're not officially closed either.
• 5:35
  So, you know, best estimates right now is it could be anywhere between 30% 50% of all small
• 5:43
  businesses, and that's under 500 employees that have closed during the pandemic.
• 5:47
  So it's a it's a really alarming number to say the least.
• 5:50
  It is.
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  It is.
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  And I think certainly for African American businesses, probably it could be 50 to 60%.
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  And a lot of that had to do with just, you know, how incredibly poor the PPP loan and EIDL
• 6:03
  loans were administrated and given out and and and who got loans and and, you know, credit was
• 6:10
  used as a validator for loans, not how much people needed help.
• 6:13
  Mean, there was a lot of crazy stuff that went on that really wasn't helpful, which is why I
• 6:19
  think so many brands have now tried to scramble to fill in the the gap that was left because so
• 6:25
  many black owned businesses did not get help.
• 6:28
  So, you know, one of the things I really wanted to talk to you about tonight was just sort of
• 6:33
  like the direct and the indirect causes of why so many minorities and women have been
• 6:41
  adversely affected.
• 6:42
  I mean, I think all small businesses, like, kinda took a hit.
• 6:45
  Although, I've definitely talked to people who did better in 2020.
• 6:49
  But those were people who were already online, and they were already set up.
• 6:53
  So when when the pandemic happened, they were able to put money on ads and put the gas on it.
• 6:59
  You know?
• 7:00
  And I think there were other people who positioned themselves to do well in 2021.
• 7:05
  Right?
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  So there were people that did that too.
• 7:07
  And then there were people that were, like, caught flat footed, you know, like, Fred
• 7:10
  Flintstone with his feet at the bottom of the of the car.
• 7:13
  I mean, you know, there were people who really had no idea what to do had never sold online or
• 7:19
  did had no idea online ads.
• 7:21
  What are you talking about?
• 7:22
  You know what I mean?
• 7:23
  Instagram was the I mean, they they there were people that were that clueless, didn't have
• 7:27
  updated websites.
• 7:28
  I mean, there was there was there's a lot of you know, there was a lot of bad practice out
• 7:32
  here that got caught.
• 7:33
  Right?
• 7:33
  Some of these people who we don't know whether they're in biz or not, part.
• 7:37
  That's because they never registered a EIN number with the IRS.
• 7:41
  Right?
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  They do a business with their Social Security number or letting people pay them with Cash
• 7:44
  App.
• 7:45
  You know what I mean?
• 7:45
  So there was all this kinda other gray economy stuff, and those people really got hurt because
• 7:51
  if you'd had no paperwork, you definitely didn't get a PPP loan.
• 7:55
  It was that was just what the deal was.
• 7:58
  So talk to me about, you know, what the other side is talking about in terms of all this
• 8:03
  stuff that that's out here that was going on and who won and who didn't.
• 8:07
  That's a that's a really that's got a lot of a lot of hair on it, but to to kinda break it
• 8:12
  down when the pandemic started, more importantly, when the quarantine started, when
• 8:16
  the shutdown started, alignable, which is a small business network, probably your audience
• 8:22
  is familiar with it, has over 6,000,000 small businesses in the US.
• 8:26
  And they, since the beginning of the pandemic, have been every single week surveying their
• 8:31
  small business members on a variety of questions.
• 8:33
  And one of the first questions that they asked their 6,000,000 members back in March was How
• 8:39
  much cash do you have on hand right now?
• 8:41
  What do you have in your savings account to really support your business?
• 8:45
  And 67% said that 30 days that's it.
• 8:50
  I'm out in 30 days of of having cash on hand.
• 8:53
  And that's why there was, frankly, a rush to give the PPP loans because there was so little
• 8:59
  cash saved on the part of of small businesses across the country.
• 9:03
  You can imagine that minority owned businesses women owned businesses, urban businesses, high
• 9:10
  touch service businesses like salons and manicurists, were all crushed by the closures
• 9:17
  that went on because as high touch businesses, they frankly couldn't they couldn't do their
• 9:21
  business in any way, shape, or form.
• 9:23
  And nor could they offer an e commerce offering and kinda survive that way.
• 9:27
  But in in in kind of in a nutshell, those businesses that were in very poor cash
• 9:33
  positions that were frankly disproportionately impacted by the closures.
• 9:38
  They didn't they didn't have access to their customers, basically, were the ones that got
• 9:43
  heaviest hit.
• 9:45
  And and and and probably make up a lot of the businesses that closed.
• 9:50
  Now I think my hope is from a recovery standpoint, that those entrepreneurs who were
• 9:56
  in those service businesses who started a business the first time wanna start again, You
• 10:02
  know, they wanna as the recovery really happens, they wanna get back into the business.
• 10:06
  They're, you know, they're a hairstylist.
• 10:08
  They wanna go back being a hairstylist.
• 10:10
  They don't wanna go off and be a nurse or or something else.
• 10:13
  So hopefully we'll see what a lot of we're trying to track is.
• 10:16
  What's the emergence of entrepreneurs now that we're starting to come out of the pandemic.
• 10:22
  And one important stat is is tracked by the small business administration is there's been
• 10:27
  more new business applications in the last 3 months than there have been in the last 3
• 10:31
  years.
• 10:32
  So there's a lot of people who are flooding into the new small business kind of space And,
• 10:38
  hopefully, that'll be a big part of of our recoveries and economy.
• 10:42
  Well, I'm certainly seeing that from my business, you know, as the small bus lady is
• 10:46
  you know, America's number one small business expert.
• 10:49
  Our website, our tools, my books.
• 10:52
  I mean, it's like, you know, like, I got a flashing sign on.
• 10:56
  Come by this stuff.
• 10:57
  I mean, definitely, I'm seeing a demand for my information and for the types of trainings that
• 11:03
  I do And we even actually decided as a part of the pandemic because everything has been so
• 11:08
  tough on people.
• 11:09
  I actually am giving away a thousand copies of my best selling book come here on Boston 12
• 11:14
  months for free.
• 11:15
  Like, all people have to do is pay for shipping because I was like, obviously, I'm not Verizon.
• 11:20
  I ain't got $1,000,000 to give away, but I I decided that the most valuable tool I ever
• 11:25
  created my book become your own boss in 12 months that I would give 1000 copies away free.
• 11:32
  And so we're doing that over on my website on beginmybiz.com/freebook.
• 11:38
  So all you gotta do is pay for shipping it.
• 11:39
  It will come to you and And and that's what my little corner of the world, what I can do to
• 11:44
  help.
• 11:44
  But speaking of people helping, I know some brands have gone out here and and and tried to
• 11:51
  help.
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  And some of them have, missed the mark with their help, and some of them have done a really
• 11:56
  good job.
• 11:57
  And I kinda wanted to talk to you a little bit about, like, some best practices that you've
• 12:02
  seen that have been pretty successful.
• 12:04
  And and I certainly will share some of that I've seen as well, but I'm curious as to, you
• 12:08
  know, given the fact that you have the lens to kinda look and see what everybody's kinda
• 12:11
  doing, who have you seen just really do a fantastic job?
• 12:16
  Well, we actually did a an event last September where about 25 of our members actually came to
• 12:23
  a virtual event.
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  To showcase what they had done on behalf of small businesses.
• 12:28
  And this ranged from everything from minority owned small business directed grants, to
• 12:33
  educational programs, to different product and service offerings, and it was really frankly
• 12:40
  enlightening for all of our big brands who sell the small business to see what are other people
• 12:45
  doing and how exactly are they doing it?
• 12:47
  I'll talk to the negative first.
• 12:49
  I think that there were a lot of well intentioned.
• 12:52
  And I think you could say that about everybody, well intentioned programs that were either too
• 12:57
  narrow too small or too self serving that were offered by by large brands.
• 13:03
  And, you know, I gotta say small businesses of nothing else know how to sniff out bullshit.
• 13:08
  And they basically called bullshit on wait a minute.
• 13:11
  This program is not really helpful to me, accessible to me, relevant to me.
• 13:16
  It's a disappointment to say the least.
• 13:18
  Mhmm.
• 13:19
  And I won't name any names there.
• 13:20
  But, again, well intentioned offerings that seem to work, just highlight 3 of them, Zoho,
• 13:28
  which is probably one of the largest purveyors of applications to run business, particularly
• 13:34
  small business, has millions of small business customers around the world.
• 13:38
  All of their applications and and programs are are made available by subscription, and they
• 13:43
  pretty quickly, like within the 1st 30 days of the pandemic really hitting said to all of
• 13:49
  their customers, you don't have to pay for our product, but we wanted you to continue to use
• 13:54
  it so we are offering it to you for free for the next 6 months if you wanna use it.
• 13:59
  What was interesting is about 30% of their customers actually reached back out to them and
• 14:03
  said, thank you very much.
• 14:05
  I don't need it.
• 14:05
  I'm doing fine.
• 14:06
  Wow.
• 14:07
  And and I thought that was a really wonderfully honest exchange between small business
• 14:12
  customers and a large enterprise that serves them in, in really kind of, in those who took
• 14:16
  advantage of it, obviously, were able to cut an expense out of their, out of their operation.
• 14:22
  Another one that did it some really cool things was Aweber, which is an email company very much
• 14:27
  like Constant Contact Competitor to Constant Contact And they pretty quickly started to
• 14:32
  create based on the response that they had seen from their small business customers what they
• 14:37
  call pivot packs.
• 14:38
  And pivot packs were very, very focused on specific industries like fitness centers.
• 14:45
  How does a fitness center actually pivot to successfully survive what is a shutdown in
• 14:53
  their particular business sector.
• 14:55
  And these were terrific.
• 14:56
  And they really created them with their customers.
• 15:00
  So they went to fitness centers, and they said, their fitness centers are your customers.
• 15:04
  What are you doing?
• 15:04
  You know, How are you wiping down everything?
• 15:07
  How are you exactly, you know, what hours are you able to operate?
• 15:09
  What machines are you able to operate?
• 15:11
  What things are you learning how to do?
• 15:13
  With video, and it was very, very helpful.
• 15:16
  And then 3rd and final example I'll give is I think that there were there were a lot of
• 15:21
  brands who tried to recognize or tried to really solicit the specific pain point that the
• 15:29
  small their small business customers were having and discover ways in which they could
• 15:34
  help, Verizon Business, great example, discovered one of their sales representatives
• 15:40
  saw that their local corner restaurant was struggling to do curbside delivery.
• 15:46
  And they were struggling because the somebody from the restaurant had to come out to the curb
• 15:51
  you know, present the bill, take the credit card back, go back into the kitchen, pay the
• 15:55
  bill, come back out, you know, with the food.
• 15:58
  Oh, there's a mistake.
• 15:59
  Go back in.
• 16:00
  It was just a mess.
• 16:01
  And what Verizon realized this Verizon representative realized is, you know, cell
• 16:05
  phones can be used as walkie talkies.
• 16:08
  Why don't we just simply instruct our small business restaurant customers?
• 16:13
  Hey, you've got a powerful communication tool a walkie talking in your hand.
• 16:17
  It's called your phone.
• 16:18
  Here's how you set it up.
• 16:19
  Here's how you use it.
• 16:20
  And that was something that was, you know, it's not a revolutionary kind of stuff, but Wow.
• 16:26
  Talk about practical assistance for a problem Sure.
• 16:29
  That virtually every restaurant in America is pacing.
• 16:33
  Would I would also give Verizon another shout out.
• 16:36
  You know, very early on, Verizon was one of the first corporations that I saw try to do a grant
• 16:41
  for small business.
• 16:42
  And they were also one of the ones that got clobbered because, like, we had to shut their
• 16:47
  program down within, like, 28 or 48 hours because they had no idea how many people were
• 16:52
  gonna come.
• 16:53
  But I give them credit because then they said, okay.
• 16:57
  We know people need money and we know we're not equipped to distribute it.
• 17:01
  So then they went and partnered with Lisk and gave Lisk the money who had the infrastructure,
• 17:08
  and they they and they have done 2 or 3 different grants through lists.
• 17:12
  And and I appreciate them for not just getting knocked down and being like, oh, forget it.
• 17:17
  I mean, they they were like, okay.
• 17:18
  We gotta do this smarter.
• 17:20
  They also did an amazing webinar series that they started I believe it was, like, in April,
• 17:26
  and they went every single week.
• 17:29
  They gave a valuable webinar, and they did that all the way through the end of October.
• 17:34
  And I think that they are to be credited because I think of all of the stuff I saw,
• 17:39
  theirs was the thing that I thought helped the most, that I thought was most visible because
• 17:44
  they didn't just do one thing.
• 17:45
  They did a couple of things to help people.
• 17:47
  And I think that, you know, we'll be forever grateful to them for that, for sure.
• 17:52
  But, listen, We are having a great conversation tonight here on the small biz chat podcast.
• 17:57
  I'm Melinda Emerson, the small business lady.
• 17:59
  Stay with us.
• 18:00
  We will be right back.
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  Welcome back to the small biz shaped podcast I'm Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady.
• 18:59
  America's number 1 small business expert.
• 19:01
  I'm here talking with Dave Walker, the founder and CEO of the SMB Institute, and we were just
• 19:06
  talking about brands that got it right in the pandemic, helping small business owners
• 19:12
  Alright, James.
• 19:13
  So let's talk a little bit about some of the work that you do with some of your brand
• 19:17
  partners.
• 19:17
  I know you recently did a research program with a center.
• 19:20
  And I wanted to talk to you about some of the things that the that the research on earth for
• 19:24
  you.
• 19:25
  Yeah.
• 19:25
  I've had a suspicion back since I was building my own company that searched small business
• 19:30
  that it was hard to earn and hard to keep the trust of small business.
• 19:35
  And like any relationship, even though, you know, I was in a buyer and seller relationship,
• 19:41
  myself, the the the seller and small business customers, the buyers, any relationship
• 19:46
  basically lives or dies on trust.
• 19:48
  And we all know that as adults who've ever had a relationship, you know, trust is basically
• 19:53
  the cornerstone of making it work.
• 19:55
  And so based on the suspicion that, boy, you know, one of the reasons why maybe the the the
• 20:02
  challenges that so many brands are facing and selling to small businesses, they're not
• 20:06
  trusted.
• 20:07
  And how do we quantify that?
• 20:09
  So one of our charter members is Accenture, the big consulting firm Accenture, and they were
• 20:14
  gracious enough to partner with us on doing a very large national survey of it's called a
• 20:21
  mirror survey.
• 20:22
  It was of thousands of small businesses across the US.
• 20:26
  And thousands of people who sell to small businesses from midsize to large enterprises.
• 20:32
  So the buyers on one side, the sellers on on the other side.
• 20:36
  And we got straight to it.
• 20:38
  We said, do you trust small businesses?
• 20:41
  Do you trust the enterprises that sell you products and services particularly the large
• 20:46
  ones.
• 20:47
  And the short answer is only 50% said they trusted.
• 20:50
  So you could say that 50% of the marriages are kind of doomed to failure.
• 20:54
  Because there's no real trust at the heart of it.
• 20:56
  On the flip side, the mirror side, we asked those folks in the large businesses how many of
• 21:04
  your small business do you think your small businesses trust you, your small business
• 21:07
  customers trust you?
• 21:09
  And they said, 80% said, yes.
• 21:12
  They trust us.
• 21:14
  So right there, you have an enormous gap basically in the perception of trust on the two
• 21:20
  sides of the relationship.
• 21:22
  And we're really trying to understand now what are the component parts of that is it because I
• 21:29
  I don't trust you because I don't believe you care about me, or is it I don't trust you
• 21:34
  because you don't understand me.
• 21:36
  I don't trust you because I don't believe you have my interests at heart.
• 21:41
  And as we followed on with the survey and the second wave of the survey, we asked those
• 21:45
  specific questions And, literally, all three of those were sta were the same.
• 21:50
  80% of the large businesses said yes.
• 21:53
  Yes.
• 21:53
  We care.
• 21:54
  Yes.
• 21:55
  Our small businesses believe that we have their best registered heart.
• 21:58
  And then on the small business side, only 50% said said, yes.
• 22:02
  We we we they care they trust us, and most importantly, they understand us.
• 22:07
  So now that frankly gives all of us on the large brand side.
• 22:11
  It gives our community the opportunity to address that, to actually say, okay.
• 22:18
  We gotta up our game.
• 22:19
  We actually have an event in May for all of our senior most executives in the institute.
• 22:25
  It's called the leaders form, but the theme of it is exceed.
• 22:28
  We have to now as a as a community of brands that smell sell to small businesses, we gotta
• 22:34
  exceed expectations in a very big way, particularly as small businesses are going into
• 22:39
  recovery.
• 22:40
  And that doesn't mean lowering prices.
• 22:42
  That doesn't mean, you know, offering more bells and whistles on a product.
• 22:47
  It means Really simple stuff.
• 22:49
  Like, ask a small business.
• 22:51
  What do you need?
• 22:53
  What how do you need it?
• 22:55
  And when do you need it?
• 22:57
  And to accept the answer, not try to sell against the answer.
• 23:02
  And I think, you know, it's a long road and a long haul but with the frankly with the
• 23:08
  underpinnings of the data and insights of this research and how much it actually financially
• 23:15
  impacts these large enterprises.
• 23:17
  The customers, they don't win.
• 23:20
  They win and then lose.
• 23:21
  The customers they can't keep, it's got real financial consequences.
• 23:25
  I I completely know it.
• 23:27
  I completely know it.
• 23:28
  Alright.
• 23:28
  Last question for you, Dave.
• 23:30
  Tell me about small biz aid in June.
• 23:32
  What are you guys doing to support small business?
• 23:35
  Well, we're literally modeling this on farm aid.
• 23:38
  One of my favorite organizations that I've supported now going on 20 years.
• 23:43
  We wanted to create an event that will hopefully everybody's fingers crossed will be
• 23:49
  timed to the the emergent recovery that we hope we're all in in the month of June, and
• 23:55
  particularly the emergent recovery that's in back small businesses.
• 23:58
  It'll be summer.
• 23:59
  Hopefully, businesses will be reopening reopening for good.
• 24:03
  A lot of the kind of constraints that we're under right now will hopefully be lifted, and
• 24:08
  we wanted to do an event entirely focused on helping small business, not a selling event,
• 24:14
  but one where we could work with our our member brands to create lots of terrific advice on the
• 24:23
  very real challenges that we are the the small businesses are facing.
• 24:29
  We're actually gonna host this on the alignable platform.
• 24:32
  So those 6,000,000 members of alignable will be kind of the underpinning of the audience, but
• 24:38
  we're gonna invite all small businesses to attend.
• 24:42
  And we're really hoping that the content that we develop which begins with asking the
• 24:46
  question, what do you specifically need?
• 24:48
  And we're querying a lot of small businesses on that through through alignable.
• 24:52
  We'll we'll have a really terrific event.
• 24:54
  So it's a 100% virtual.
• 24:56
  It'll be the 2nd week of June, the full week, and it really will be offered for free for
• 25:01
  everybody who wants to attend.
• 25:02
  Thank you so much, Dave, for being here with me.
• 25:05
  Thank you all so much for joining me for this episode of the small Bishop podcast.
• 25:10
  If you want more information about how to start a grow a small business, head over to my blog,
• 25:15
  succeed as your own boss.com to get more information.
• 25:18
  Now the mission of small fish chat is to end small business failure.
• 25:23
  I'm Melinda Emerson, small business lady, your host, and I'll leave you with this.
• 25:26
  You never lose in business, either you win or you learn.
• 25:29
  God bless everybody.
• 25:30
  Good night.
• 25:32
  Thank you for listening to the Small Biz chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 25:37
  For more resources and small business success strategies, visit succeed as your own boss.com.
• 25:44
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and join us next Wednesday.