Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / RRR W/ Rob - Oswald, Oswald, Oswald

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RRR W/ Rob - Oswald, Oswald, Oswald · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey there, pull up a chair Rob's got a question to.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Share Started with a loud red rod and a note
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: and a note and a margin thin. Then a side
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: road turned to three more roads and here we go again.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: A photograph, a witness, a date that doesn't quite align.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: One small fact becomes a winding track by a quarter
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: after nine.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Random research ramblings with Rob.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: Take the long way, let the rabbit hole bob.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: From odd little facts to the big what ifs.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: We'll follow every tangent till the evidence slips.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Random research ramblings with Rob. Bring your questions, bring your
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: curious thoughts. Was it the grassy note or a file misfiled?
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Rob's got a.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Theory but he's checking them out No final answers, just
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: a notebook and a grin Tooling for the question.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: And the rabbit hole within Random research ramblings with Rob
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Where the side note is where we begin.
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome in to Random Research Ramblings
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: with Rob. I am, you guessed it, Rob, aka Big
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: Bad Bob. Hope you enjoy the new animated intro video.
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: I had a lot of fun putting that one together.
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of hidden Easter eggs in there, if
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: you will. So yeah, today I want to talk a
• 2:35
  Speaker 5: little bit about... Lee Harvey Oswald, and specifically more about
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: his interrogations while in custody in Dallas. Now, we have
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: instances of Oswald being interviewed by authority figures before, specifically
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans by the FBI. And when you go
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: back and you read through Agent Quigley's report, You see
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: a lot of times where Oswald wasn't completely honest and
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: in fact outright lied several times during the interview to
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: the FBI that he requested to come interview him. So
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: I wanted to take a closer look at his interrogations
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: in custody. But before we get there, Excuse me. I
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: wanted to throw a couple things at you. Just for
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: shits and giggles. Things that make you go, hmm.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: So, let me show you this picture of Lee Harvey Oswald. Now,
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: both of these pictures were allegedly taken in Minsk on
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: the same day. So we have here on the left
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: a somewhat smiling Lee Harvey Oswald. And we have here
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: on the right a very stern looking Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: Now I'm not saying that these are two different guys,
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: although some people have said that, you know, pictures can
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: be a funny thing. You know, it's really, it comes
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: down to a fraction of a second that your image
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: is caught and transferred to film and then developed. Sure,
• 5:03
  Speaker 5: there can be a couple of anomalies. I mean, The
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: ears appear to match. Maybe. Although this kind of looks
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: like what they call a detached earlobe. And the one
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: over here appears to be more attached. Make of that
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: what you will. Both of them have dark colored hair
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: parted in approximately the same spot. You see how it
• 5:38
  Speaker 5: kind of comes down here and comes forward on his
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: temple and then down towards his ear. You have the
• 5:46
  Speaker 5: exact same thing happening over here as well. You know,
• 5:55
  Speaker 5: the picture on the left, he has, he's showing some
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: kind of emotion. And when you do that, it brings
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: out different features of one's face. I would say the
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: picture here on the right is pretty much devoid of
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: any emotion or humor or feeling. And it certainly comes
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: through in his face and his eyes in particular. And,
• 6:27
  Speaker 5: you know, sometimes people say, you know, when you smile
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: that your eyes smile too, and you can kind of
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: see the difference. On the left, when he's smiling somewhat.
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: And you can kind of see, it's almost like his
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: eyes are smiling. There's some kind of feeling in them.
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: But over here, no smile. And his eyes look just
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: dead cold. Like there's just nothing going on behind them.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: And if there is something going on behind them, it
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: probably isn't good. I don't know. I thought it was
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: interesting and I don't know what this is here I
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: mean if this is like a mole because it certainly
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: isn't present on this side unless this faint thing way
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: over here could possibly be it but it appears to
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: be closer to the midline of his neck over here
• 7:27
  Speaker 5: or this could just be a artifact from development or
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: film or whatever the case may be. Whatever the truth
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: is here, it's certainly interesting to think about. And you
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: can see why the theory of Oswald being replaced in
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: Russia by a double sometimes, uh, has, has legs. You know,
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: we've talked on the show before about the height discrepancies of, uh,
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: Of the Oswald's. Throughout his life.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: And.
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: I don't know what to make of it. It's certainly crazy.
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: And I came across something else. Before we get to
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: the interrogations. One other thing. That if you want proof.
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: That Oswald. Was impersonated in Mexico. I've got it for you.
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah. So without further ado, now this doesn't mean
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: that Oswald wasn't in Mexico, but it does mean that
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: he was at least impersonated on at least one occasion
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: at the Cuban embassy. Or, this guy is mistaken, but...
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: Let's take a look and see what he has to
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: say because it doesn't sound like he's mistaken. It sounds
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: like he has a very good recall of it. So
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: we go to an interview between Robert Blakey of the
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: HSCA and Eswebio Askew. And this is, of course, from
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: the time of the HSCA in the late 70s. ASCII says, well,
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: I'll tell you, the person that I found different was
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: the person that came into the embassy and told me
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: he was Oswald. And the person that I later saw
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: on TV when he was assassinated at the Dallas police station.
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: At that point, it looked like two different people. Blakey says,
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: now when you saw the passport, did you see any
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: difference between the picture in the passport and the person
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: standing in front of you? And Asquay says, no, no,
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: normally I'm not the very analytical person. You see, it's
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: usually the secretary. that deals with all these matters. But
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: the difference that I noted was between the man who
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: came to the consulate and the one that was assassinated.
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: Blakey says, Mr. Askew, let me show you a book
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: of photographs, which is the JFK exhibit of photographs. The
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: book will contain a number of photographs. Would you look
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: in each page slowly and study each face and determine
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: whether you can recognize any of the persons there. Please
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: take your time. Do not look for any one particular person.
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: Just tell us if you recognize any of the photos.
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: So at this point, the Cuban government asked for a
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: five-minute recess so that Mr. Askew could look at the
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: photos carefully. For the record, when the session was resumed,
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: the same people were present Approximately 15 minutes passed as
• 10:52
  Speaker 5: a recess in which Mr. Askew has looked through the photographs. Now,
• 11:00
  Speaker 5: there's a little bit of jumping around here, so we'll
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: never know. Well, not that we'll never know, but we're
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: not going to know right now what Askew's answer was
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: to viewing the photographs. But back to the point of
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: this guy who visited the embassy that he saw not
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: being Oswald. Or at least not being the same man
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: who he saw on TV as being accused of assassinating
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: the president. So back to that. Now we're with Louis
• 11:29
  Speaker 5: Stokes questioning ASCUE. Stokes says, and then Oswald's second visit
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: to your embassy, who would have been present? ASCUE says,
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: the secretary. It's always the secretary because she would be
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: the one who would receive visitors and then call me.
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: Stokes says, well, how about the consul that replaced you?
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: Would he have been present? Askew says, no, I don't
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: think he was there. I do remember that Sylvia was there.
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: Sylvia Duran, he's talking about. He was only learning. He
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: understood no English, and he was not very active at
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: that time. Did you at some time come into contact
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: with Marina Oswald? Marina, you mean the wife? No, never.
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: During the time that Oswald was at your embassy and
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: was angry... Do you recall his saying anything at all
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: about President Kennedy? ASCII says no, not in the least. Now,
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: we have Senator Dodd. Just a couple of questions. In
• 12:28
  Speaker 5: looking at this photograph, if you will take a look
• 12:30
  Speaker 5: at it, I realize that we're going back a long time.
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: Do you recall if Lee Harvey Oswald was dressed in
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: a tie and sweater like that? Now, the reason he's
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: asking this question is because when Oswald was applying for
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: a visa... to go to Cuba they required a photograph
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: to be put with the application and he didn't have
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: any so they told him that hey there's a place
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: down the street that will take these photographs so go
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: down there tell him you need a couple photographs and
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: then come back so that's what Oswald did and we
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: do have those pictures and he is wearing like a
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: sweater vest and a tie and a collared shirt in them.
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: So again, back to Dodd. Do you recall if Lee
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald was dressed in a tie and sweater like that? No,
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: he was not. He had a suit on. I even
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: remember the color of the suit. It was a very
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: light blue Prince of Wales suit. Was he wearing a tie? Yes,
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: he was. He was wearing a tie. Um, So for me,
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: I would say this is pretty good proof that at
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: the very least, Oswald was being impersonated in Mexico City
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: at the Cuban Embassy at some point. Now, is this definitive?
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: Can you chalk this up to bad memory? Maybe, but
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: it certainly sounds to me Like, Askew is very positive
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: in his recollections. Could he be mistaken? Sure. But the
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: reason it stood out to him was, of course, because
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: this guy was an American demanding a Cuban visa and
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: who supposedly got shitty with him because they wouldn't give
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: him one. They told him that he had to go
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: over to the Soviet embassy and get their approval first.
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: And he got upset about it. And they had an
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: argument in the Cuban embassy. So this is why this
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: kind of stood out in his mind. And, again, this
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: doesn't preclude Oswald from being in Mexico at all. What
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: it does do is, at the very least... have him
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: being impersonated for some reason at the Cuban embassy in
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: Mexico City while he is either there or he's not there.
• 15:31
  Speaker 5: That is the question. That is the question. So just
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: a little food for thought for that. Now let's get
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: into the interrogations. At least according to the memory of
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: Captain Will Fritz Now, how much can we trust the
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: memory of Captain Will Fritz? I don't know. Now, it
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: seems to me like if this was just any other
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: random murder in Dallas, that maybe things would be different.
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: But you have to remember, folks, Captain Fritz has to
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: answer to Police Chief Jesse Curry, ultimately. And they have
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: to answer to the District Attorney's Office. And they also
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: have to play nicey-nice with the FBI, the Federal Bureau
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: of Investigations. So you have a lot of folks from
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: the government, from different offices, whether it's the Secret Service,
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: the Postal Inspectors, the FBI, INS, U.S. Marshals, sheriffs, office,
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: DPD people. You have a lot of people around. So
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: it's much harder to falsify claims than it would be if,
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: you know, It was just Fritz in a room with
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: Oswald by themselves. Now, we do have a clue as
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: to kind of how things used to go down in
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: Dallas in the 60s and 50s and 70s. Go watch
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: The Thin Blue Line. And we also have the testimony
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: of Buell Frazier, although it didn't come out at the time,
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: it came out later, that Fritz... pretty much threatened him
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: with physical violence if he didn't sign a typed-up confession
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: of being an accomplice of Lee Harvey Oswald's in the
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: complicity of the murder of the president. You know, Frazier
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: said kind of famously, you know, you might get in
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: a good lick on me, but I tell you, you're
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: going to know you was in a fight, boy. Now,
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: I don't buy all that coming from a shy, timid
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: 19-year-old to a homicide detective. But, nonetheless, you can kind
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: of see how Fritz operated. Now, he couldn't operate like
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: that with all these freaking eyes on him. They had
• 18:41
  Speaker 5: to do things by the book. There was pressure from
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: all around him. To do things by the book. And
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: to get it right. Now. In an ideal world. They
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: would have went out in the hallway. And grabbed a
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: fucking news guy. With a camera. And recording equipment. And
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: brought him into the interrogation room. Or at the very least.
• 19:12
  Speaker 5: Gotten a hold of a tape recorder. Or something. And
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: recorded the interrogations. But if they did, we don't have them.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: And we probably never will. Chances are they did not
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: record the interrogations. There has been allegations that they did.
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: And then they deep-sixed them. But nothing corroborates that. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: you can kind of see... how they didn't think that
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: they would need to because they thought that they had
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: their man dead to rights that this was the guy
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: and there's no way he's getting out of it so
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: let's get to Captain Fritz's report now Following the death
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: of Lee Harvey Oswald and the announcement that there would
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: be an official government inquiry, a commission, a blue ribbon commission,
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: if you will, tasked to investigate not only the murder
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: of President Kennedy, J.D. Tippett, and Oswald, he was encouraged
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: or informed that he would need to, to the best
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: of his abilities and recollections, put together a report about
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: the interrogations of Lee Harvey Oswald whilst in his custody. So,
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: we do have Fritz's notes. They came out back in
• 21:05
  Speaker 5: the 90s thanks to the ARRB. But this is not
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: what I'm talking about here. This is a 12-page report
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: released officially by the Dallas Police Department that Fritz put together.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: The bulk of the report was typed. In some places,
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: handwritten words were included in the margins and the final
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: placing indicated by arrows. A few places, there was shorthand.
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: But here we go. So we're going to go through
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: here and see what Lee Harvey Oswald said under direct
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: interrogation after being arrested in Dallas on November 22, 1963.
• 21:58
  Speaker 5: So Fritz says, We conducted the investigation at the Texas
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: School Book Depository building on November 22, 1963. Immediately after
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: the present was shot and we found the location where
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: Lee Harvey Oswald had done the shooting from, allegedly, and
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: left three empty cartridge cases on the floor and the
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: rifle had been found partially hidden under some boxes near
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: the back stairway. These pieces of evidence were protected until
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: the crime lab could get pictures of them in situ
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: and make a search for fingerprints. After Lieutenant Day of
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: the crime lab had finished his work with the rifle,
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: I picked it up and found that it had a
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: cartridge in the chamber, which I ejected. About this time,
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: some officer came to me and told me that a Mr.
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: Roy Truly wanted to see me, as one of his
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: men had left the building. I talked to Truly previously,
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: and at that time, he thought everyone was accounted for
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: who worked in the building. Truly then came with another
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: officer and told me that a Lee Harvey Oswald had
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: left the building, I asked if he had an address
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: and where this man lived and he told me that
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: he did and that it was in Irving at 2515
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: West 5th Street. I then left the rest of the
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: search of the building with Chief Lumpkin and other officers
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: who were there and told Detectives R.M. Sims and E.L.
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: Boyd to accompany me to City Hall where we could
• 23:29
  Speaker 5: make a quick check for police record and any other
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: information of value. And we would then go to Irving
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: in an effort to apprehend this man. While I was
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: in the building, I was told that Officer J.D. Tippett
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: had just been shot in Oak Cliff. Immediately after I
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: reached my office, I asked the officers who had brought
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: in a prisoner from the Tippett shooting who the man
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: was who shot the officer. They told me that his
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: name was Lee Harvey Oswald. Now, of course, this information
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: just matched what he had been told at the depository
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: by Roy Truly about an employee who was missing and
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: left early. And I replied that, well, he's our suspect
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: in the president's killing as well. I instructed the officers
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: to bring this man into the office after talking to
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: the officers for a few minutes in the presence of
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: Sims and Boyd of Homicide Bureau and possibly some Secret
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: Service men. Just as I had started questioning this man,
• 24:27
  Speaker 5: I received a call from Gordon Shanklin, agent in charge
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: of the FBI office here in Dallas, who asked me
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: to let him talk to Jim Bookout, one of his agents.
• 24:38
  Speaker 5: He told Mr. Bookout that he would like for Hostie
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: to sit in on this interview, as he knew about
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: these people and had been investigating them before. So, I
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: invited Mr. Bookout and Mr. Hostie in to help me
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: with the interview. After some questions about this man's full name,
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: I asked him if he worked for the school book depository,
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: and he told me that he did. I asked him
• 25:02
  Speaker 5: which floor he worked on, and he said usually on
• 25:04
  Speaker 5: the second floor. Now, this answer doesn't make sense because
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: the second floor was mainly publishing offices and lunchroom area, allegedly.
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: But sometimes his work took him to all different floors.
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: I asked him what part of the building he was
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: at the time the president was shot, and he said
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: that he was having his lunch about that time on
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: the first floor. truly had told me that one of
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: the officers had stopped this man immediately after the shooting
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: somewhere near the back stairway so i asked oswald where
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: he was when the officer stopped him and he said
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: he was on the second floor drinking a coke when
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: the officer came in i asked him why he left
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: the building and he said well there was so much
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: excitement he didn't think that there would be any more
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: work done that day and as this company wasn't particular
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: about their hours that they did not punch a clock
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: that he thought it would be just as well that
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: he left for the rest of the afternoon I asked
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: him if he owned a rifle, and he said he
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: did not. He said that he had seen one in
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: the building a few days ago, and that Mr. Truly
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: and some of the employees were looking at it. I
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: asked him where he went to when he left work,
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: and he said that he had a room on 1026
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: North Beckley, and that he went over there and changed
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: his trousers and got his pistol and went to the
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: picture show. Now, how much of this is 100% accurate here?
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: I asked him why he carried his pistol, and he said,
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: you know how boys do when they have a gun?
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: They just carry it. Must be a Texas thing, you
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: know what I'm saying? At that point, Hostie asked Oswald
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: if he had been to Russia. He told him, yeah,
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: he had been to Russia for three years. He asked
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: him if he had written to the Russian embassy, and
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: he said, yeah, I did. At that point, Oswald became
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: very upset and arrogant with Agent Hostie when he questioned
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: him and accused him of accosting his wife two different times,
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: which Hostie did. When Agent Hostie attempted to talk to
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: this man, he would hit his fist on the desk.
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: I asked Oswald what he meant by accosting his wife
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: when he was talking to Hostie. He said, Hostie mistreated
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: his wife two different times when he talked with her.
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: Practically accosted her. Mr. Hostie also asked Oswald if he
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: had been to Mexico City. And Oswald said no. So
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: you see, there's a slight dichotomy here of things coming
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: out of Oswald's mouth. Some are the truth. And some
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: could possibly be construed as just outright untruths, allegedly. During
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: this interview, he told me that he had gone to
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: school in New York and Fort Worth, and that after
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: going into the Marine Corps, finished his high school education there.
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: I asked him if he won any medals for rifle
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: shooting in the Marines, and he said he won the
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: usual medals. You know. I mean, they all had to
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: shoot in the Marine Corps, and they all had to
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: achieve a certain score, and you were given a sharpshooter
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: or a marksman medal or whatever that they could pin
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: on their uniforms. I asked him what his political beliefs were,
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: and he said that he had none, but that he
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: belonged to the Fair Play for Cuba committee and told
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: me that they had headquarters in New York, and that
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: he had been secretary for this organization in New Orleans
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: when he lived there. He also said that he supports
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: the Castro Revolution. One of the officers told me that
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: he had rented the room on Beckley under the name
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: of O.H. Lee. I asked him why he did that.
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: He said they did it. Or he said she did it. Sorry,
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: she didn't understand his name correctly when he told her.
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, he is a man of three first names.
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: Lee Harvey Oswald. Who knows? yeah oswald asked if he
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: was allowed an attorney and i told him that he
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: could have an attorney anyone he liked as a matter
• 29:51
  Speaker 5: of fact and that the telephone would be available to
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: him up in the jail and he could call anyone
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: he wished I believe it was during this interview that
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: he first expressed a desire to talk to a Mr. Apt,
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: an attorney in New York. Interviews on this day were
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: interrupted by show-ups where witnesses identified Oswald positively as the
• 30:08
  Speaker 5: man who killed Officer Tippett. Allegedly. At this point in
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: the report from Fritz, several words were unreadable and some
• 30:21
  Speaker 5: readable have been written in the top margin. and an
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: arrow points to placement elsewhere in the document. At the
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: time that I would have to talk to another witness
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: or to some of the officers, one of these show-ups
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: was held at 4.35 p.m., and the next one at 6.30 p.m.,
• 30:40
  Speaker 5: and also again at 7.55 p.m. At 7.05 p.m. on
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: November 22nd, I signed a complaint before Bill Alexander of
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: the DA's office, excuse me, charging Oswald with the Tippett murder.
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: At 7.10 p.m., Tippett was arraigned before Judge Johnston. I
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: think it's meant to be Oswald, not Tippett. Tippett's dead.
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: He can't be arraigned. During the second day interviews, so
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: now we're on the second day, I asked Oswald about
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: a card that he had in his purse or wallet.
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: Showing that he belonged to the Fair Play for Cuba committee,
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: which he admitted was his. I asked him about another
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: ID card in his pocket bearing the name Alex Heidel.
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: He said he picked up that name in New Orleans
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: while working in the Fair Play for Cuba organization. He
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: said he spoke Russian, that he corresponded with people in Russia,
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: and that he received newspapers from Russia. I showed the rifle.
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: to Marina Oswald, and she could not positively identify it,
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: but said that it looked like the rifle that her
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: husband had and that he had been keeping it in
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: the garage at Mrs. Payne's house in Irving. After this,
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: I questioned Oswald further about the rifle, but he denied
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: owning a rifle at all and said that he did
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: have a small rifle some years past. I asked him
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: if he owned a rifle in Russia, and he said,
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: you know you can't buy a rifle in Russia. You
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: can only buy shotguns. I had a shotgun in Russia
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: and hunted some while there. Marina Oswald had told me
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: that she thought her husband might have brought the rifle
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: from New Orleans, which he denied. He told me that
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: he had some things stored in a garage at Mrs.
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: Payne's home in Irving and that he had a few
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: personal effects at his room in Beckley. I instructed officers
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: to make a thorough search of both of these places. Now,
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: when you talk to the lone nutters, about Oswald's motivations
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: for killing the president, you know, they always say, oh,
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: he wanted to be somebody. He wanted to be a
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: big shot, a big guy. Yet when he had the
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: opportunity multiple times to take credit for this crime, this murder,
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: he flat out denied it. So how does that work?
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: How does that work? You know, at that point, the
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: damage is done. The people are dead. You're in custody.
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: If you really want to go down in history and
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: be remembered as the guy who did this, I mean,
• 33:42
  Speaker 5: you felt so passionately about this that you did it,
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: but then all of a sudden you don't want to
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: take any credit for it once they catch you. Something
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: about that dichotomy doesn't sit well with me. And I
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: don't know what it is. I mean, I do know
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: what it is, but I just can't put my finger
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: on it. I don't know. Maybe there's some other motivation
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: for Oswald to lie in custody. Of course, you know,
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: somebody that is in that position maybe thinks that if
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: they get a good enough lawyer, that maybe.
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: Maybe, just maybe, they can get off. Now, had this
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: whole fucking clown show went to court, I'm not 100%
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: sure that Oswald would have been convicted of anything. You
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: have to remember, in court, you have to prove things
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: beyond a reasonable doubt. And there would have been a
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: huge problem, as we saw somewhat with Jack Ruby, but
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: there would have been an even more so problem with
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: Oswald getting a fair trial. Not just in Texas, not
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: just in Dallas, but anywhere in the world at this point.
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: I mean, you have the DA's office and the Dallas
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: police on national television saying, ah, this is the guy.
• 35:23
  Speaker 5: You know, it's a lock. The case is cinched. This
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: is our guy. There's no question about it. And then
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: there turned out to be a gazillion questions about it. So,
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: I digress. Back to the report. After reviewing all the
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: evidence pertaining to the killing of Kennedy before D.A. Henry
• 35:48
  Speaker 5: Wade and his assistant Bill Alexander... and Jim Allen, former
• 35:52
  Speaker 5: Assistant District Attorney of Dallas, I signed a complaint before
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: the DA charging Oswald with the murder of President Kennedy.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: This was at 11.26 p.m. He was arraigned before Judge
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: Johnson at 1.35 a.m. on November 23, 1963. Oswald was
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: placed in jail at about midnight and brought from the
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: jail for arraignment at 1.35 a.m. On November 23rd, the
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: next morning at 1025 a.m., Oswald was brought from the
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: jail for an interview. Another one. Now at this one,
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: you also have Agent Bookout back. Hostie is not there
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: because he was putting Oswald in some kind of shitty
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: mood when he was there the day before. So this
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: time around, we just have Agent Bookout there. from the FBI.
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: We have four sorrels there, special agent in charge of
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: the Secret Service, a United States Marshal, Robert Nash, and
• 37:00
  Speaker 5: homicide officers. During this interview, I talked to Oswald about
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: his leaving the building, and he told me that he
• 37:07
  Speaker 5: left by bus and rode to a stop near home
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: and walked on to his house. No mention of a cab,
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: by the way. Interesting. At the time of Oswald's arrest,
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: he had a bus transfer in his pocket. He admitted
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: this was given to him by the bus driver when
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: he rode the bus after leaving the building. One of
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: the officers told me that a cab driver, here's where
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: the cab driver comes in, one William Wayne Wally, I
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: wonder if he listens to random research ramblings with Rob,
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: old William Wayne Wally. Well, he can't because he's dead.
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: He's been dead for a long time. But anyway, they
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: had a cab driver show up to City Hall and
• 38:02
  Speaker 5: say that he recognized Oswald's picture as the man who
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: had gotten in his cab near a bus station and
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: rode to Beckley Avenue. I asked Oswald if he had
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: ridden a cab that day, and he said, oh yeah,
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: I did ride in a cab. The bus I got
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: on near where I work got into heavy traffic and
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: was traveling too slow, so I got off and called
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: a cab. I asked him about his conversation with the
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: cab driver, and he said he remembered that when he
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: got in the cab, a lady came up who also
• 38:32
  Speaker 5: wanted a cab, and he told Oswald to tell the lady, Bitch,
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: take another cab. This one's full. We had found from
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: the investigation the day before that when Oswald left home
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: that he was carrying a long package. That's what she said.
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: He usually went to see his wife on the weekends,
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: but this time he had gone on a Thursday night.
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: I asked him if he had told Butte Wesley Frazier
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: why he had gone home a different night, and if
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: he told him anything about bringing back some curtain rods,
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: and Oswald flat out denied it. Oswald denying the curtain
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: rod story is very interesting because look I think Buell
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: Frazier is full of shit about a lot of things
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: including the curtain rod story okay I think Frazier came
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: up with this all on his own and I think
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: that if Oswald had a package that morning a long
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: one that Frazier would have known exactly what it was
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: being a rifle owner, being around rifles your whole life,
• 39:50
  Speaker 5: growing up in Texas, hunting, so forth and so on,
• 39:54
  Speaker 5: one would know what a rifle looks like in a case,
• 40:00
  Speaker 5: in a cloth bag, in a hard shell case, in
• 40:04
  Speaker 5: a leather bag, and a paper bag. Rifles have a
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: certain shape, shall we say. So I think that if
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: Oswald had a package, Frazier would have certainly known exactly
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: what in the hell it was. And who knows what
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: Oswald told Frazier about why he's bringing this long package
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: to work. Now there's only one of two possibilities here, folks.
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: Either Oswald had a package, and it was a long one,
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: or he didn't have a package at all. Either way,
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: Frazier is lying. About something. Because if Oswald didn't have
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: a package at all, Frazier says that he did. And
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: that it was two feet long and that it contained
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: curtain rods. Allegedly. Now, I understand that Frazier wouldn't have
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: wanted to be implicated as being the guy who drove
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: the guy... who ended up being accused of killing the
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: president to work that day. And if said guy had
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: a large paper package that in the shape of a rifle, uh,
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: on the same day that the president just happened to
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: be riding by where they work, you know, you kind
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: of see where Frazier might've been in a tough spot
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: and probably why he ended up lying about the package.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: because he lied about it either way. Either Oswald had
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: a package, a long one, and it was the rifle,
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: or he didn't have a package at all. He also
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: lied about dropping him off at the building. And the whole,
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: he cupped it under his armpit and all this and that.
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: There's been a multitude of other witnesses, employees of the
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: school book depository that morning who stated that they saw
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: Wesley Frazier drop him off at the building. They even
• 42:17
  Speaker 5: asked him where his rider was when he parked over
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: at the other warehouse at the state building and made
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: the long walk back to the school depository by himself. Now,
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: he says that he didn't do that. He says that
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: him and Oswald parked there at the state building. got
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: out Oswald started walking a little bit in front of
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: him he cupped the rifle butt under his armpit and
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: in his hand and proceeded to walk on in the
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: building with it where he lost track of Oswald allegedly
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: but again like I said there are other witnesses there's
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: even other witnesses to say that they drove to work
• 42:55
  Speaker 5: together all the time implying a much friendlier relationship because
• 43:00
  Speaker 5: look I think Frazier was a nice guy I do
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: I think he was in a bad spot in the
• 43:06
  Speaker 5: wrong place at the wrong time with the worst shit
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: luck anybody could ever have. I get it. But I
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: also think that he was a nice guy. And for
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: him to go out of his way to possibly pick
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: Oswald up from his rooming house in the morning and
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: take him to work and then take him back home
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: is not out of the realm of possibility. It was
• 43:32
  Speaker 5: only One and a quarter mile detour for Frazier to
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: pick up Oswald and take him home and then go
• 43:42
  Speaker 5: on back to Irving. And only a mile and a
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: quarter detour, which certainly would be doable. We don't have
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: any testimony whatsoever from anybody that rode a bus with
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: Oswald for six weeks before the assassinations. And again, you've
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: got to remember back then, during the work week, the
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: same people are riding the bus at the same time. So,
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: you know, when you're riding a bus to work, it stops,
• 44:17
  Speaker 5: it picks people up, you look, you take notice of
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: who they are, where they sit, you know, where they
• 44:24
  Speaker 5: get off. And over the course of five days a
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: week for six weeks, you know, you're going to see
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: somebody very frequently. And if somebody who had been on
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: that bus that made that trip.
• 44:38
  Speaker 6: Every morning and afternoon or afternoon, um, nobody has ever
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: come forward that rode those buses that ever said that,
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: Oh my God, I used to ride the bus in
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: into Dallas.
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: With the accused assassin, the president every morning. Oh my God.
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: And didn't know it. Oh no, we don't have any
• 44:59
  Speaker 5: of those people whatsoever. None of them. None of them.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: So how did Oswald get to work? He wasn't going
• 45:09
  Speaker 5: to pay for a cab to and from work every day.
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: That's too much money. Too much money. That's why he
• 45:16
  Speaker 5: would rather ride the bus. But if he could save
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: bus fare or cab fare, an old, good old guy, Buell, offered,
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: you know, hey, buddy, it's not too big a deal.
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: I can just swing over there and pick you up
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: in the morning. You just walk on down to the
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: corner there. I'll pick you right up. We'll go on in. Booyah, baby. So, again,
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: just because Oswald may have taken a package into the
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: school book depository that morning doesn't mean he was on
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: the sixth floor shooting it. He could have been told
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: to bring the rifle to work for whatever reason. We've
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: heard stories about offers to possibly purchase this rifle after
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: Warren Castro had brought some rifles into the building two
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: days before the assassination, and everybody's standing around looking at them.
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: Oswald could have said, oh, yeah, I got this old
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: World War II Italian rifle, carbine. Oh, really? You want
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: to sell it?
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: No.
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: How much you want for it?
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: 15, 20 bucks. Does it have a scope? Yeah, it's
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: got a four times Japanese on it. Hmm. Well, could
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: you bring it into work? I'd like to see it.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we can do that. I just have to go
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: back to Irving to get it. Shouldn't be a problem.
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: I'm just saying. Just because Oswald, if Oswald, had a
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: long rifle-sized package that morning and Frazier lied about it,
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: it doesn't mean that Oswald was on the sixth floor shooting. Remember,
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: this rifle had been ordered in the name of A.J. Heidel,
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: a prominent member of the Fair Play for Cuba committee,
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: a pro-Castro organization out of New Orleans. Okay? So, in
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: Oswald's mind.
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: This rifle could never be traced back to him. So
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: whether he was selling it to somebody for whatever reason,
• 47:31
  Speaker 5: or he was told to take it there and plant
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: it somewhere in the building, that they were going to
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: fire some warning shots at Kennedy, and then this rifle
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: would be found and traced back to a pro-Castro person. Well,
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: maybe Kennedy would finally do something about those nasty, commie
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: Castroites and Russians 60 miles off our shore, 90 miles
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: off our shore. I'm just saying there is alternative explanations
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: for why Oswald would have brought that rifle into the building.
• 48:07
  Speaker 5: And you can see why Frazier would have lied about it.
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: But I digress. Let's continue with... captain fritz's uh report
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: here he says during this conversation he told me he
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: reached his home by cab and changed both his shirt
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: and his trousers before going to the show which becomes
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: important later you know when they say that they found
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: fibers from the shirt that he was arrested in uh
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: on the rifle but if he changed his clothes, his
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: shirt and his trousers, then those fibers, the shirt that
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: he was arrested in, wouldn't have been on the rifle.
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: And let me clear this up by saying, look, I
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: think there was a lot to be left desired for
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: forensic analysis in the early 60s. I don't really think...
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: I mean, it was in its infancy The best thing
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: they had going for them back then was fingerprints. When
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: it comes to fiber and hair analysis, the best they
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: could do, there was no DNA, the best they could
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: do is basically compared under a microscope the best that
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: they could and say, well, you know, it really looks
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: like this. It really looks like that. But how accurate
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: was this forensic evidence? And could you get a jury
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: of 12 people to buy into the fact of this
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: new technology of forensic analysis and believe what these experts
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: are telling you about this? I don't know. Again, another
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: problem if Oswald would have ever went to trial. And
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: there were dirty clothes found at the rooming house in
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: the hamper. A pair of gray trousers and a maroon
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: button-up collared shirt, if I remember correctly. But I digress.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: In talking with him further about his location at the
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: time the president was killed, he said he ate lunch
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: with some of them colored boys who worked with him.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: One of them was called Junior. The other one was
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: a little short man whose name he did not know.
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: That would have been Charles Givens. He said that he
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: had a cheese sandwich and some fruit and that that
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: was the only package he had brought with him to
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: work and denied that he had brought the long package
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: described by Frazier's sister. I mean, here it says the
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: long package described by Mr. Frazier and his sister, which
• 51:17
  Speaker 5: is either one of two things. It's an association slip
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: because Frazier says it was, it could have been no
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: longer than two feet, right? There's a big difference between
• 51:33
  Speaker 5: two feet and three feet and three and a half feet.
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: Big difference. So, initially or eventually, did Frazier finally say,
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: all right, fuck it. He had a long package with him.
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: I don't know what to tell you. Because nothing ever
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: did jive between Frazier and and his sister, Lindy Mae Randall,
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: about the size of the package. He says it was
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: short two feet. She says, oh no, much longer than that,
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: at least three and a half, three, three and a
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: half feet. I asked him why he lived in a
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: room while his wife lived in Irving. He said, ain't
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: none of your fucking business. No, he didn't say that.
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: He said, well, Mrs. Payne, that lesbian lady his wife
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: lived with was learning Russian and that his wife needed
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: help with the young baby, and that it made a
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: nice arrangement for both of them. He said he didn't
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: know Mr. Payne very well, but Mr. Payne and his wife,
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: he thought, were separated a great deal of the time.
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: He said he owned no car, but that the Paynes
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: have two cars, and told that in the garage at
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: the Paynes' home, he had some sea bags that had
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: a lot of his personal belongings in them. And that
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: he left them there after coming back from New Orleans
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: in September. Again, he says nothing about going to Mexico.
• 53:08
  Speaker 5: He says that he left them there after coming back
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: from New Orleans in September. He said the Paynes were
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: close friends of his. He said that he had one brother.
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: He actually had two. But he said that he had
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: a brother, Robert, who lived in Fort Worth. Actually, his
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: brother Robert lived in Denton, Texas, not Fort Worth. Now,
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: is this just Oswald lying for some stupid reason? Or
• 53:48
  Speaker 5: is this just a case of him not knowing that
• 53:50
  Speaker 5: his brother had moved to Denton? You know, they had
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: been out of touch for quite a while at that point.
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: I asked him if he belonged to the Communist Party,
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: and he said that he had never had a card,
• 54:03
  Speaker 5: but repeated that he belonged to the Fair Play for
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: Cuba organization, and that he belonged to the ACLU and
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: paid $ 5 in dues to be part of the American
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: Civil Liberties Union. I asked him why he carried the
• 54:18
  Speaker 5: pistol to the show again. He refused to answer questions
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: about the pistol. He did tell me, however, that he
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: had bought it several months before in Fort Worth, Texas. Again,
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: why would you lie about that? It doesn't make any
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: sense whatsoever why somebody would lie about where they got
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: the pistol that they had just caught you with. Is
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: this a case of Oswald not wanting to say that
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: he ordered it through the mail? Did he never order
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: it through the mail? Anything is possible here. You can
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: see why there are questions. For it says, I noted
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: that in questioning him that he did answer very quickly.
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: And I asked him if he had ever been questioned
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: before and he told me that he had. He was
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: questioned one time for a long time by the FBI
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: after he had returned from Russia. And this was done
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: by Agent John Fain before Hostie took over for him
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: after he retired. He said they used different methods. They
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: tried the hard and the soft and the buddy method.
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: He said he was very familiar with interrogation tactics. He
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: reminded me that he did not have to answer any
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: questions at all until he talked to his attorney. And
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: I told him again that he could have an attorney
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: anytime he wished. He said he didn't have money to
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: pay for a phone call to Mr. Apt, and I
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: told him to call Collect if he liked, to use
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: the jail phone, or that he could have another attorney
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: if he wished. He said he didn't want another attorney.
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: He wanted to talk to this attorney first. I believe
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: he made this call later as he thanked me later
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: during one of our interviews for allowing him to use
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: the telephone. I explained to him that all prisoners were
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: allowed to use the telephones. I asked him why he
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: wanted Mr. Apt instead of some available attorney, and he
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: said he didn't know Mr. Apt personally, but that he
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: was familiar with a case where Apt defended some people
• 56:32
  Speaker 5: for a violation of the Smith Act, and that if
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: he didn't get Mr. Apt, he felt sure that the
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: ACLU would furnish him with a lawyer. He explained to
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: me that this organization helped people who needed attorneys and
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: weren't able to get them. While in New Orleans, he
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: lived at 4907 Magazine Street. and at one time worked
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: for the William Riley Coffee Company near that address. When
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: asked about any previous addresses, or arrests, sorry, previous arrests,
• 57:01
  Speaker 5: he told me that he had had a little trouble,
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: and while working with the Fair Play for Cuba committee,
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: had a fight with some anti-Castro people, he also told
• 57:10
  Speaker 5: me of a debate on some radio station in New
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: Orleans where he debated with some anti-Castro people. I asked
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: him what he thought of Kennedy and his family, and
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: he said he didn't really have any views on the president,
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: He said, I like the president's family very well. I
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: have my own views about national policies, though. I asked
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: him about a polygraph test. He told me to go
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: fuck myself. He refused a polygraph test with the FBI,
• 57:36
  Speaker 5: and he certainly wouldn't be taking one with me at
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: this time. Both Mr. Bookout of the FBI and Mr.
• 57:43
  Speaker 5: Kelly of the Secret Service and the U.S. Marshal asked
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: Oswald some questions during this interview. Oswald was then placed
• 57:51
  Speaker 5: back in jail at 11.33 a.m. And at 12.35, Oswald
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: was brought to the office for another interview with Inspector
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: Kelly of the Secret Service and some other officers and myself.
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: I talked to Oswald about the different places he'd lived
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: in Dallas in an effort to find out where he
• 58:09
  Speaker 5: was living. When the picture was made of him holding
• 58:12
  Speaker 5: a rifle, which looked to be the same rifle we
• 58:14
  Speaker 5: had recovered, this picture showed To be taken near a
• 58:18
  Speaker 5: stairway with many identifying things in a backyard, he told
• 58:22
  Speaker 5: me about one of the places where he had lived. Mr.
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: Payne had told me about where Oswald had lived on
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: Neely Street. Oswald was very evasive about this location. We
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: later found that this was the place where the picture
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: was made. I again asked him about his personal effects
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: and where his things might be kept. and he told
• 58:45
  Speaker 5: me about the things at Mrs. Payne's residence and a
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: few things on Beckley, and he was put back in
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: the cell at 1.10 p.m. At 6 p.m., I instructed
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: the officers to bring Oswald back to the office, and
• 58:58
  Speaker 5: in the presence of Bookout, some other homicide officers, and
• 59:03
  Speaker 5: Inspector Kelly of the Secret Service, I showed Oswald an
• 59:07
  Speaker 5: enlarged picture of him holding a rifle and wearing a pistol.
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: this picture had been enlarged by our crime lab from
• 59:13
  Speaker 5: a picture found in the garage at pain's home he
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: said the picture was not his that the face was
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: his face but that this picture had been made by
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: someone superimposing his face the other part of the picture
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: was not him at all and that he had never
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: seen this picture before. When I told him that the
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: picture was recovered from Mrs. Payne's garage, he said that
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: picture had never been in his possession. And I explained
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: to him that it was an enlargement of the small
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: picture obtained in the search. At that time, I showed
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: him the smaller picture. He denied ever seeing that picture
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: and said that he knew all about photography and he'd
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: done a lot of work in photography himself. and that
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: the small picture was a reduced picture of the large picture,
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: and had been made by some person unknown to him.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: He further stated that since he had been photographed here
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: at the city hall, and that people had been taking
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: his picture while being transferred from my office to the jail,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: that someone had been able to get a picture of
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: his face, and that with that, they made this picture.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: He told me that he understood photography really well, and
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: that in time, he would be able to show that
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: it was not his picture. and that it had been
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: made by someone else. At this time, he said that
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: he did not want to answer any more questions, and
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: he was returned to the jail cell at about 7.15 p.m. Again,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 5: when we're talking about Oswald, and wanting to be a
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 5: big shot, and be remembered, and go down in history
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 5: for whatever reason, you feel so strongly about killing the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: President of the United States, a married man with a
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 5: beautiful wife, small children, had just lost a baby, comes
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 5: from a big family, loved by millions, yet you feel
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: some kind of way enough to allegedly blow his head off.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: And again, when you're given every opportunity to come clean
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: about it, there's some kind of an excuse, even when
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: confronted with photographic evidence. That they have of him. With
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: a rifle. And a pistol. He says. That's a fake picture.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: And I can prove it. Eventually. If he let me.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: In court. Interesting. Why. You know. If he was so proud.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: Of what he did. Why didn't he say. Yeah. That's me. Huh. Yeah.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: So what.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: That's me. So what. But he didn't. He accused the
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 5: police of falsifying a picture by superimposing his face over
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 5: another person's body at allegedly an address that he was
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: living at. I mean, they pretty much had him dead
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: to rights about a lot of things. So at this point,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: why lie about it? Why continue to lie about it?
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 5: I don't know. That's the million dollar question. Now, at 9.30
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: in the morning of November 24th, I asked that Oswald
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: be brought to the office. At that time, I showed
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 5: him a map of the city of Dallas, which had
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 5: been recovered in the search of his room on North Beckley.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: Excuse me. This map had some markings on it, one
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: of which was where the president was shot. It's also
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: where he fucking worked. He said that the map had
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: nothing to do with the president's shooting, and again, as
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: he had done in previous interviews, denied knowing anything of
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 5: the shooting of the president or the shooting of Tippett.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 5: He said the map had been used to locate buildings
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: where he had gone to talk to people about employment.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: Which makes sense. During this interview, Kelly asked Oswald about
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 5: his religious views, and he replied that he didn't agree
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 5: with all the philosophies on religion. He seemed evasive with
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: Kelly about how he felt about religion, and I asked
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: him if he believed in God. He was evasive and
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: did not answer this question. Allegedly. Some of the federal
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: officers asked Oswald if he thought Cuba would be better
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: off since the president was assassinated. To this, he replied
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 5: that he felt that since the president was killed, that
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: someone else would just take his place, more than likely
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: Vice President Johnson, and that his views would probably be
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: largely the same as those of Kennedy. So what's the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: point of killing Kennedy? I again asked him about the
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: gun and the picture of him holding a similar rifle.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: And he again denied having any knowledge of the picture
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: or the rifle and denied that he ever lived in
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: Neely Street again. And when I told him that friends
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: who visited him there said that he lived there, he
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: said that they must be mistaken about visiting him there
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: because he never lived there. Another typed paragraph was added
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: to the top of the page, at least the first
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: sentence of the paragraph. It's unreadable, but a drawn arrow
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 5: indicates the insertion point here. Marxist, and repeated this two
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: or three times. He said that the station he had
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 5: debated on in New Orleans was Bill Stuckey's program. He
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: denied again knowing a Heidel in New Orleans, and again
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: reiterated his belief in fair play for Cuba and for
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: what the committee stood for. Now I don't know that,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: let me read that again. It says he denied again
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: knowing an.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: A.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 5: Heidel in New Orleans. But he didn't deny knowing an A.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 5: Heidel in New Orleans. Obviously he knew who this A.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: Heidel was. It was the only other member of the
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 5: Fair Play for Cuba committee that had a name. Other
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: than Oswald.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 5: Obviously, he would have known who A. Heidel was in
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 5: New Orleans. And I think he even mentioned earlier that
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 5: he was part of the Fair Play for Cuba committee
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 5: in New Orleans. And that he, again, reiterated his belief
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: in Fair Play for Cuba. After some questioning, Chief Jesse
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 5: Curry came to the office and asked if I was
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: not ready for this man to be transferred yet. I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 5: told them we were ready as soon as the security
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: was complete and in the basement where we were to
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 5: place Oswald in a car to transfer him to the
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 5: county jail. I objected to the large cameras obstructing the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 5: jail door and the chief moved back across the street
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 5: and the cameras were well backed in the garage and
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: I told the chief we were ready. He told us
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 5: to go ahead and that he and Chief Stevenson who
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 5: was with him would meet us at the county jail.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 5: Oswald's shirt, which he was wearing at the time of
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 5: his arrest, had been removed as evidence and sent to
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: the crime lab in Washington. And he said that he
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: would like to have a shirt from his clothing that
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 5: he had brought to the office to wear over the
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: t-shirt that he was wearing at the time. We selected
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 5: the best looking shirt from his things and he said
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 5: he would prefer a black Ivy League type shirt from
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 5: his things, indicating it might be a little warmer. So
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 5: we made this change and I asked him if he
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 5: wouldn't like to wear a hat to more or less
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: camouflage his looks in the car while being transferred as
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: all of the people who had been viewing him had
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: seen him bareheaded he said no he didn't want to
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: do this I look like a dork in hats is
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: what he said allegedly then officer Lavelle handcuffed his left
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: hand to Oswald's right hand and we left the office
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: for the transfer in so much as this report was
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 5: made from rough notes and memory It is entirely possible
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 5: that one of these questions could be in a separate
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: interview from the one indicated in this report. He was
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: interviewed under the most adverse conditions in my office, which
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: is only 9 feet 6 inches by 14 feet, which
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 5: is very small, folks, and has only one door, which
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: forced us to move this prisoner through hundreds of people
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 5: each time he was taken from my office to the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 5: jail some 20 feet during each of these transfers. The
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: crowd would attempt to jam around him, shouting questions and
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: many containing slurs like, Hey! Fuck you! You Kennedy killing fucker!
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: This office is also surrounded by large glass windows and
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 5: there were many officers working right next to these windows.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 5: I have no recorder in this office and was unable
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 5: to record the interview. I was interrupted many times during
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: these interviews to step from the office to talk to
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: another witness or answer questions, or secure additional information from
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: officers needed for the interrogation of Oswald. So there you
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 5: have it, folks. The interrogations according to Fritz. I do
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: have one other thing, and it's not very long, but
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: it's from a different perspective. Now, when Fritz stated that
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: there were other homicide officers in on these interrogations, specifically,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: we're going to be talking about Sims and Boyd. Captain
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 5: Fritz then found out this man's name was Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 5: This is from their perspective. the same name that he
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: had received at the school depository from the man there
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: at 2 20 PM. Sims and Boyd took Oswald from
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: the interrogation room and escorted him into Captain Fritz's office.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: So you see, he was brought, he was arrested at
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: about one 40 at the Texas theater and He was
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: brought back to headquarters and put in the interrogation room
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: where they attempted to go ahead and talk to him
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: without Fritz. But that interrogation was stopped and they escorted
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 5: him into Captain Fritz's office. Now, during the interrogation of Oswald,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 5: Bookout and Hostie of the FBI were in the office
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 5: with Fritz, Sims, and Boyd. There was also a Secret
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: Service agent present, that's Forrest Sorrells, and these FBI and
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 5: other Secret Service agents took part in the interrogation of
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 5: Oswald with Captain Fritz. At 4.05 p.m., Sims, Boyd, and
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 5: Hall took Oswald down to the holdover in the jail
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 5: office for a show-up or line-up. Down in the holdover,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 5: Boyd searched Oswald again and found five live rounds, miraculously,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 5: of a. 38 caliber pistol shells in his left front
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: pants pocket. At that time, too, Sims found a bus
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 5: transfer slip in Oswald's shirt pocket. Oswald took his ring
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 5: off and gave it to Sims. We put three other
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: men in the show up with Oswald. They were as follows,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: Billy Perry, R.L. Clark, and Don Ables. Sims Hall and
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: Boyd were on the show-up stage with the men who
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: were in the show-up. The four men were handcuffed together
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 5: after the show-up was over at 4.20. Smoke them if
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 5: you got them. We took Oswald back to Fritz's office
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 5: where Fritz, the FBI agents, and Secret Service agents talked
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 5: to Oswald more. Again, at 6.20 p.m., Sims, Boyd, and
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 5: Hall took Oswald back to the lineup room with the
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 5: same men as were in the first one. They were
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: also numbered the same as the first. At 6.37, we
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 5: left the show-up room for Oswald to go back to
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 5: Fritz's office for more questioning. Shortly afterwards, Fritz, Justice of
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 5: the Peace David Johnston, and Assistant DA Bill Alexander came
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 5: to Captain Fritz's office. And Fritz signed the official declaration
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 5: of the charges. For the murder of Officer Tippett. So...
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: There's more, but... You basically get the gist of it.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: So when it comes to... Oswald interrogation, I mean... When
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 5: you look at things... From the Quigley interview... In New Orleans...
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 5: You can understand Oswald lies outright many times in that interview.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: So why wouldn't he continue? And that was over some
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: trivial bullshit in New Orleans. A street fight, a scuffle,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: a disagreement, an argument. It wasn't like murder. It wasn't
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 5: like he tried to kill anybody. It wasn't like he
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 5: robbed a bank or anything. So why are you lying
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 5: about trivial shit like your wife's name? It just doesn't
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 5: make any sense. And now, on the biggest stage of
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 5: them all, when you are being charged with not just
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 5: one murder, but two murders, and a whole lot of
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 5: other shit, that you would acquiesce to a lot of
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 5: information but then also lie about things like that's not
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 5: me in the photograph that's not my rifle i didn't
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 5: have a package i don't know it's all very odd
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: behavior and it's a lot of the reason that we're
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: still here 63 years later asking what in the fuck
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 5: happened back then you know i wish i had a
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 5: better answer to give you But we can only work
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: with what we are left to work with. And build
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: upon the various works of those that came before us
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: and try to sort this thing out as best as possible.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: Because no matter how you view all of this, there
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 5: are problems. Things will not make sense. There are deficiencies.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: There were mistakes. There were blunders from all sides. So
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 5: here we are, trying to figure it out again. But anyway,
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 5: that's going to do it for your boy, Big Bad Bob.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 5: Thank you again for hanging with me and checking out
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 5: some random research ramblings. And if you dug this, check
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: out the big show. We do it every Friday night,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 5: 7 p.m., right here on YouTube. Please, if you could,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: make sure to like the video and hype it. If
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 5: you have hype points, it would be greatly appreciated. Get
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: the word out. And with that being said, we'll see
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: you next time. Probably for a book review. Probably in
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 5: a couple days. We'll see you. Until then, peace.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: Hey there, pull up a chair Rob's got a question
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: to share.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: Started with a light red rod and an old note
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: in the margin thinning. Then a side road turned to
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 3: three more roads and here we go again. A photograph,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: a witness, a date that doesn't quite align.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: One small fact becomes a winding track by a quarter
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: after nine.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: Random research, ramblings with a rock. Take the long way, let.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: The From odd little facts to the big what ifs,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: we'll follow every tangent till the evidence slips.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: Random research, ramblings with Rob. Bring your questions, bring your
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 3: curious thoughts.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: Was it the grassy knoll or a file misfiled?
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Rob's got a theory but he's checking them out No
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: final answers, just a notebook.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: And a grin Tooling for the question And the rabbit
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: hole within.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: Random research ramblings with Rob Where the side note is
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 3: where we begin
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.