Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep.211 'Limb-itless Expedition World Record' with guests Rich Potter and Richard 'Dickie' Davies

Transcript

Ep.211 'Limb-itless Expedition World Record' with guests Rich Potter and Richard 'Dickie' Davies · The STA Clinician Podcast

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You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
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back into soft tissue therapy.
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Music.
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Welcome anyway to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, episode 211.
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Right, so very shortly in this episode entitled The Limitless Expedition,
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Conquering the Himalayas, I will be joined by special guests,
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Armed Forces veterans Rich Davis and Rich Potter, plus their sports therapist
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Carla Pickerstaff and massage therapist Jenny Lane.
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First of all, as always, I just want to give a huge thank you to last week's
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guest, who was the one and only Michelle Lyons in episode 210.
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That was Musculoskeletal Health and Menopause, New Research.
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Michelle Lyons is a wonderful women's health video and creator of CelebrateMovieEberty.com.
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Some of you may have heard her previous episodes and even seen her last year at Therapy Expo.
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She will be joining us again at this year's Therapy Expo in the Establishment
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Theatre on day one, which will be November the 27th.
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Which I do hope that listeners, those of you who are able to come or ooming
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and aahing about it, are in the process of sorting it now.
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As you do only have 86 days. And yes, I will be counting it down every week
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as we broadcast this live podcast.
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So, yeah, just sort out. Now, like we said in the episodes two weeks ago,
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think about it now. If you haven't got a ticket, do it.
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Sort out accommodation maybe for staying for two days.
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Travel, make adjustments for it in your budget so you know. So it doesn't hit
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you suddenly because it'll be lovely to see you there. We're really looking forward to it.
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So back to tonight, the Limitless Expedition, conquering the Himalayas with
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special guests, like I said, Armed Forces veterans Rich Davis and Rich Potter,
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plus their sports therapist Carla Bickerstaff and massage therapist Jenny Lane.
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Again before i bring them up please note there is a just giving page associated with this episode
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and i'm really keen hopefully for you guys to maybe if you listen to the podcast
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then go and just drop a little bit of money on it please it's a fantastic cause
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and as we listen to our guests i'm sure you'll be thinking actually this is
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a really really good cause and i want to give some money for it i will put the
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link in the comments it's on the post as well there's a couple of them there.
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Either one will obviously do. There's Rich Potter's Just Giving page,
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which is raising money for Blesma, which is the Limitless Veterans Charity.
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And then also we have Rich Davis' page, which is Amputees World Record Check
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for the Royal British Legion, raising money for the Royal British Legion.
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Right, with that all said and done, I'm hoping that I will now be able to bring
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up my guests in full glory as we start this episode, 211, The Limitless Expedition,
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Conquering the Himalayas.
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Music.
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Right, so thank you, I'm so glad we are all together. I
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thought to start off we would go headfirst into what
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this expedition is about because we had a little chat off air and I think a
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lot of it's hard to get the truth behind the snowman trek out in words without
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like lots of images but maybe we could have a chat with you Rich Potter and
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Dickie about yeah what this snowman trek involves so people can get an idea
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of the big challenge you're taking on.
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You go first Rich. sure thank you dicky
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so the snowman trek is commonly referred
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to as the most difficult trek in the world
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or the everest of treks the full snowman trek
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is a 367 kilometer route
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around 11 mountain passes averaging about 5 000 meters each we will get to 5
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900 meters at the peak and we will be wild camping every night for 35 nights
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so if you want to see two blokes in a tent 5 500 meters then follow us on instagram
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because there's going to be some good footage.
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I love the way you've missed out one little kind of
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detail there so for for those who aren't aware
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myself and dickie are amputees we're
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both below the knee amputees on the left leg the snowman
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trek is incredibly challenging for people with two legs
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let alone people with one and we would generally
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expend about 60 to 70 percent more energy on a daily basis than somebody with
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two legs so i hope that just puts into perspective aside from all the big numbers
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and and altitudes how difficult this is going to be for the two of us for sure
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that's exactly what i wanted and it's going to be in essence it's going to be
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a world record if you complete when you complete it he said,
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never been done yeah absolutely no and so we've done
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a couple of background checks research into the actual snowman track
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itself and speaking to our guides and as far as i were we're the
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first disabled people to even attempt it yeah alone being the first amputees
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simple question why why not no it's there it's there and it hasn't been done
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you know every world record started somewhere and after invictus we knew there was going to be a slump.
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So what do we do you know we started brainstorming and
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came upon the snowman trek has any disabled person ever done it no so let's
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do it and the whole point is if we can inspire and motivate other people with
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disabilities limb loss limb difference anything like that to take on their own
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challenges regardless of the size i'm not going to tell you to go and climb
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everest i'm not going to say do the snowman trek for some people that's getting out of bed that morning.
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And if they can conquer that challenge then you know that's the
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win for that day and you just looking for the next one he just keeps
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it in our bar slightly higher each time fantastic i'd
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love to hear or see the sheet of paper with some of the ideas you
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disregarded in your your choice was there any other things you
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were considering before you finally decided on this one so
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just to add a bit more meat on the bones everyone talked about the post-game
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slump after the invictus games and when you're going through the training and
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going through the competing you don't even think about it you don't care about
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it because it's in the future and then it arrives and it hits you like a ton of bricks in the face.
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It is the most difficult feeling to express to you tonight.
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But we cracked, you know, some more than others.
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And Dickie and I were kind of scrambling for something to give us a little bit
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of direction and purpose, more importantly.
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And we had lots of ideas, such as TV shows, two middle-aged dicks on a bike
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where we would travel the world on a tandem, meeting other amputees.
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Any execs from ITV or BBC, if you're watching, hit us up because the idea is
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still fresh and I still believe in it. and then we were talking about going
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to costa rica and doing various other coast to coast tracks but um.
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When someone offers you the opportunity to do the most difficult track
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in the world you don't turn it down whether you've got two legs or not amazing
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great um if people want details on this
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and to have some more wordy explanations of what it involves then you've
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got a few options you can go along to the just giving pages like
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i said before and make sure the links go into the show notes for that um and
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also you can go along to the website and spring
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little screenshots i know you people who join us live love a little bit of
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picture of the work there that's actually a shot let's put it
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on the main screen that's actually a shot isn't it of part of
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the the the peaks you're going to be walking across isn't
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it yeah that's our acclimatization walk and
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when we arrive in Bhutan so that's the tiger's nest monastery a
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very famous monastery out in Bhutan that is yeah
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a warm-up day and then the next day we actually that is
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yeah five hour five to six hour warm-up day and then
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we actually set off on the 7th of October for the official
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trek it's a warm-up day okay amazing a trick
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that's going to cover about if i read remember correctly 200 miles
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in less than 40 days and with guides as if you know they're obviously going
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to help make sure you go in the right direction but well certainly hope so that's
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their that's their job done but what are some of the what are some of the things
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which you are going to have to struggle with that people with two legs would
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not have to consider doing a journey a challenge like this,
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I think probably the most important thing is going to be your prosthetic leg.
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Everyone just assumes, I assumed when I initially lost my leg,
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that you put on a prosthetic leg and you start running and you go to the Paralympics
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and everything is amazing.
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There are so many different permutations when it comes to prosthetics about
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comfort, about fit, around different type of feet. So you can have heels that compress.
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We could talk about prosthetics for hours. I appreciate that's not the point,
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but the biggest barrier for us,
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the biggest challenge for us is absolutely going to be prosthetics and
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we are so fortunate that there's a company called dorset orthopedics
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who are a private prosthetics provider in the uk
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they have agreed to sponsor us a leg each so we've
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got this really new gucci foot we've got this incredible bespoke socket from
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our processes and we've had a couple of warm-up walks on it and my right and
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same dickie so far so good yeah touch wood and i'm generally touching wood right
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now no pun intended i am not it's being uh twisted anyway all right keep going.
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We have been fortunate you know we have got some brilliant propositors
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and yeah the legs are brilliant and courtesy
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of author park as rich mentioned the foot is it's
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an industry leading foot and we're going to give it a further testing out there
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amazing do you i'm sure i'm just thinking i was just down south and thinking
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of questions listeners i'm doing your job i need you to ask questions and don't
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be i think one of the things is not being embarrassed and we'll get on to that
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when it comes to therapists working with you.
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I'm going to take great pleasure in talking to you, Carla and Jenny,
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that there's still a certain level of taboo and not asking and talking about
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things, which I guess must make it uncomfortable for both the therapist and
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the client who has, for example, had a leg or arm or anything amputated.
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So please do ask questions.
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I want to ask, first thing comes to my head, do you take spares along with you?
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Absolutely. Yes. So I say we're very fortunate that Dorset and Otterbuck are
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providing us with the hardware effectively for ourselves.
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But we are also taking a spare foot because if anything goes wrong,
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socket cracks, the foot breaks.
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We even got pinch bolts which hold parts of the leg together.
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If they shear we haven't got the
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tools to just be able to drill out or anything so it is down
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to your backup leg and that's pretty
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much either going to be a choice of our running blades which believe it
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or not unbelievably forgiving on quite rough terrain and
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when your residual limbs getting tired that nice
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fit spring in it is a bit of a welcome relief or we'll just use our everyday
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foot with our hiking boots on fantastic yeah um have you got a lot of faith
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then rich potter in the hardware as you put it i've actually got a lot of faith
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in dickie because he was very practical when he was serving in the forces so
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he's basically said he's going to handle all the.
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Mechanical stuff and i'm going to handle the more soft tissue pressings blisters
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that kind of thing so it's a partnership that works quite well yeah no pressure
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on each other i think that's really cool it's good to have your roles defined
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before you leave on that journey you're going to spend those 40 days together
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presumably in a lot of discomfort for much of it now amazing right so So we've
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mentioned the Invicta Games a few times,
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and we want to get into that because that'll draw Carla and Jenny into it,
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where they both had the pleasure of working with you.
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I think, first of all, maybe as a backstory to the Invicta Games,
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maybe we could start with you first, Dickie.
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What were the circumstances maybe of you losing the leg and then you discovering Invicta Games?
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Yes, so originally in 2019, I was deployed to Cyprus with RAF and no judgment
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on my behalf for being Air Force, especially with the army out there.
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But yeah so i was out with the f-35 on his first overseas appointment and unfortunately
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on day three i had the jet engine trailer totally in the back of my foot collapsing
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it in on itself i ended up with 11 breaks and fractures and destroyed the cartilage
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at the time we didn't realize the amount of nerve damage done,
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That then unfortunately developed into complex regional pain syndrome and ultimately
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resulted in 2021, my pulmonary amputation.
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And yeah, it's quite a shocking moment where you're told you have to have an
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amputation. There's no other way about it.
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It's like continue living, agonizing pain and life was just great beyond words.
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I was miserable. I missed out on family time, family events because I was constantly
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in pain. And I was 24 seven.
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It just varied in intensity and i'm sure rich will
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attest to the same issues he had and anyone
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else who suffered and after the foot came off that initial wake up from surgery
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obviously feeling a bit groggy that constant background pain was gone and i
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was like this is definitely the right decision to have gone with and it was
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onwards and upwards from there started my rehabilitation.
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Start it took me just yeah about
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a year literally just over a year to go from taking my
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first steps on the prosthetic to running for the first time and
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it was from there that i met rachel williamson he
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was a former invictus captain from the hague and she
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was my staff at the time and she told me are you considered invictus i
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said no i didn't think i was broken enough and yeah the rest of it sort of became
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a bit of history you know signed up and incredibly well selected and again i
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still in shock that i even got that far and for people who aren't aware of invictus
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could Could you just give us a brief rundown on their history and what they do?
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Yeah, so Prince Harry, he came up with the idea for the Invictus Games to help
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wounded service personnel and veterans, either through injury in service or outside, to channel...
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Their recovery through sport that started in 2014
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first games was i believe in london and it's
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been growing since with more nations joining and it's been a great
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way for into people you know serving and
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veterans to focus on it gives them
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a goal especially when you've left service you've been medically discharged you know
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what do i do now because you've got that sort of mentality
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i've got i've got to have something to do i've got to succeed i've
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got to keep pushing you get that that sport you find you know
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whether you make the team or not you get to try something new and
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for all you know for me i'm now pursuing archery
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and retired on swimming for the second time in my life and others
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you know it could be anything you know the winter sports
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coming up how much of an influence
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coming from a military background so i've read interviews and seen videos
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with both of you and both of you mentioned i think words which
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meant basically the same thing but saying that you're proud to get
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to represent your country once again is that something which
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is enhanced by coming from a military background because presumably you joined
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the military because you felt proud you wanted to kind of like
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serve your country just does that one vector think to helps with you able to
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put that badge on again and feel i'm actually doing something for my country
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again yeah you definitely feel like you know the day after i officially left
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service was an official team uk announcement and so i got to put it on you know
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broadcast across the nation and yeah you You feel like you're saving your country again.
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A lot of people, once you leave, you saw where'd you go? What'd you do?
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You know, however long you've served, you've still been institutionalized.
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You put that uniform on every day.
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You've been told what to do. I mean, it's taken away from you.
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So when you get that opportunity to put effectively a uniform on again and then
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serve your country in a different form, it was, yeah, it was a very...
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Moving and emotional experience for for myself particularly and i know a few others.
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To the extent that now you're actually i think i read you're considering paralympics in los angeles,
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it's very early days i think yeah early for
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me to try but i'm certainly hoping i'm getting down the
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power pathway in archery and the nice
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thing about power archery is i've got a long time
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to keep practicing get better and who knows represent
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the uk or a great at one of the
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future paralympics and again yeah i definitely think los
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angeles is a bit hopeful but never say never you know
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stranger things have happened well i'm looking forward to
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that podcast episode already as we join you at the games that'd be great you're
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going to come back and talk directly from los angeles yeah when that's happening
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if you have it's absolutely great thank you very much that's good we got it
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booked in there right fantastic we'll come back to invicta games i just want
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to hear maybe the same thing obviously everyone's life and situation is is very different but
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Rich Potter, what were the circumstances for you?
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So, Matt, I was very much living the dream.
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I was a troop commander getting paid too much money to play football every single week.
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And my wife told me for many years, stop playing football because I was too
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old. But you know what blokes are like, they don't like to listen.
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And one particular match, I got absolutely hammered in a 50-50 tackle as I was
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taking a shot, which resulted in me getting in my first ever ambulance.
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Which seems a little bit overkill for a little football injury.
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Surgery got to hospital had all my scans and x-rays and i
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was told that it was just a sprained ankle which i
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guess is good because it meant i got to deploy to the middle east which was
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my dream had a great deployment whole time i was out
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there i was in huge amounts of pain couldn't walk couldn't deadlift couldn't
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squat couldn't do any sports and obviously if you
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can't do the physical stuff it interferes with your your mental
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health so i eventually got back i got posted to london
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and saw a doctor who said i had an osteochondral defect
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an ocd and apparently
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it's really easy surgery one hour in and out and
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he was absolutely correct i had surgery in the morning i was home that night
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and at two o'clock in the morning i got rushed into a and
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e in kingston hospital with sepsis only for the
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grace of my wife who was awake and able to spot the signs of
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sepsis and am i still sitting here today and that just
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kind of dragged on for a couple of years to be honest math it was like sepsis osteomyelitis
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talk of crps there was never really a definitive
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answer sir but i met a great surgeon in the
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nhs who said to me what the hell are you doing you're still in the
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army just take your leg off and a couple of months later it came off and i never
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looked back amazing yeah that is that is something which kind of stands out
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reading through your story that word decided must make people go whoa hold on
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what did i have to say he decided to but and it's interesting i saw something
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a video amazing video a lot of.
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Sports professionals physios and rehab specialists kind of made it clear to
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you that you weren't going to be able to run again and pursue your the things
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you loved to do so much beforehand.
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Yeah they did and i'm a bit of an anomaly traditionally as a below the knee
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amputee you would do six months at rehab at headley court or stanford hall and
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then you would you would tap out to civilian street whereas for me it was three
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years it was 16 revision surgeries it was There's countless admissions away
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from my wife, obviously during COVID as well.
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So once you're there, you stay there for four weeks or six weeks.
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And it just went on and on.
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And every single physiotherapist and every single doctor and consultant said,
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you will never run again.
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Your stump is too short. You're not designed to run. Go and find something else. Do cycling.
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And I reckon every single person listening today has been told at some point
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in their lives they can't do something.
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And very often that lights the fire in your belly.
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And that's what it did for me. and i kept trying to the running criteria which
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is the military test to enable you to
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get a running blade compliments of the ministry of defense and i
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kept failing the running criteria except for a couple of months
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before i was out i passed it i got my blade started running
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and very fortunately just like rich i got selected for team
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uk for the invictus games fantastic and then
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went on um i'll just put this on full screen so people can
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see if you have joined us live went on to incredibly must
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have been amazing this there's a wonderful video which i will put a link
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into to the show notes ended up getting gold in 100 meters was it
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yes it was 100 meters gold that's
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the that's the big sexy one right 100 meters everyone loves that and
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it's an amazing video which i could but talking about it we're not going to
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do justice to it i really i will put the link in there for people to look at
19:22
because you can see the emotion everything as you're talking it was a huge moment
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for you because your your wife and son were there i believe and you kind of
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made this really poignant remark that it was it was all for them basically basically.
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We yeah thanks matt we we adopted our little
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boy three years ago who's just absolutely incredible and he
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has in himself given me some purpose which i desperately needed
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and the royal british legion facilitated friends and family to come out to germany
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with us for the game so ellie and ceo came across and they without without getting
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too emotional you know my wife kept me alive for the last four or five years
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not did she just save my life that night but almost every single day as we
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go she's just there of that support and the fact that she's given me
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seven eight weeks off from the family to go and
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do this crazy thing in Bhutan is probably testament enough to her
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graciousness and encouragement in the interview I won't dwell on this for too
20:15
long because you get me going but in the interview you said how I think it was
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you made it sounded like it was like practically waking up from the operation
20:22
but like looking at her and saying one day I'm going to run again I promise
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you and yeah you made that true it just must have been huge.
20:30
Huge i think i think the worst thing about that matt was and i
20:32
didn't understand any of this at time because i was on so much morphine but
20:36
it was two o'clock in the morning she was 28 years old wandering around
20:38
a hospital in kingston she'd never been to in the pitch black having
20:42
just been told her husband might not survive the night i will
20:45
never understand what she went through that night so it
20:48
means that whatever birthday or christmas present she wants generally at least you get
20:50
right so yeah
20:56
i mean everybody's story regarding this
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sort of topic is huge but it's yeah i wanted to do that before
21:02
we moved on to evicta games because now people will realize how much
21:05
the invicta games can change lives and also why you are raising money for the
21:10
charities you are just to remind people again if you listen to the podcast if
21:14
you're watching live then hey you know straight after this that's what you need
21:17
to do um is head along to the just giving pages and just donate some money i'd
21:21
say a little bit but hey go for a medium amount or a big chunk,
21:24
because it's it's both charities are all about supporting
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people who are going through the tragedies and the hardship which
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we've talked about and it really makes a massive difference so we won't dwell
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on that anymore but i would even if you listen to the podcast and it's still
21:36
september there's still time to check out the challenge go to the website and
21:40
have a look at just giving pages and and help with uh the funding to change
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lives so right carla and jenny thank you so much Thank you so much,
21:47
Rich and Dickie, for sharing those stories.
21:49
Carla and Jenny, so you go to work one day in Victor Games.
21:54
Meet Rich and Dickie. There you go. I'll leave you to it.
21:58
Had you worked with athletes with disabilities or amputations before,
22:03
or were you really just thrown into it?
22:06
So we'd both actually done the World Paraswimming Championships in 2019.
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And I have done a lot of work in paraswimming prior to this,
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but this was the first time that I was kind of thrown in with a huge variety of very different,
22:28
sometimes very complex conditions.
22:31
Conditions so it was kind of a sort of see how you go with it really and I had to very quickly,
22:42
try and work with these people whose literal lives have been turned upside down
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and get them on board and wanting to engage with me wanting to work with me
22:54
and they effectively chose whether they wanted to work with me or whether they
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didn't and that was kind of how it went really.
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And the sort of work you were providing physically let's
23:06
talk about the mental support and that aside but what on paper what
23:09
were you there to do so the first
23:13
training camps basically was to do offer any sort of soft tissue
23:16
support any sort of injury i suppose
23:19
sort of assessment from a point of
23:23
view of this is something additional to
23:26
what they currently have as their disability potentially with them trying out
23:31
new sports and things like that and then there was obviously there was myself
23:35
there and Jenny with soft tissue based but then we also had physiotherapists
23:40
on site as well so we could refer between all of us if we needed to,
23:47
Excellent. Okay. And Jenny, so you were there, same sort of situation for you.
23:52
You'd done a little bit of training before, you'd worked to the power swimming
23:55
before, but did it feel like you were being thrown in the deep end the same
23:59
way as Carla when you went to Victor?
24:00
Victor yeah yeah absolutely i i think it's you don't really realize that the
24:06
complexity of the the issues that you're dealing with and it's you know you
24:10
have to be really sensitive to to not just.
24:14
Concentrating on on the soft tissue side of it all but but certainly
24:17
the mental health side was was way beyond anything that i'd expected to be honest
24:22
with you and and it was a real eye opener because that had a huge effect on
24:27
how you treated the them from a soft tissue point of view or whether you did
24:30
treat them you know sometimes some some of the competitors would have you know,
24:36
excruciating cramp but the last thing
24:39
they needed was for you to go over and try and put any hands on them at all
24:42
even though you could have helped them psychologically they just weren't in
24:45
the right place for you for you to do that at that time some again it would
24:50
be different from person to person so some would be more more open to it but
24:55
definitely not not everybody so yeah it was
24:58
it was difficult it was and things that would normally work didn't necessarily
25:03
work for some people so people that I treated before and used a certain technique
25:08
it would work beautifully and.
25:11
You know some of the guys it just didn't you know
25:14
some of my techniques didn't work on them in the same kind of way and
25:17
you had to adapt your approach and adapt the way that
25:20
you you were going to work so yeah it was it was
25:23
definitely it was definitely thinking outside the box definitely thinking
25:26
out yeah i'm wondering
25:29
for listeners who are soft tissue therapists themselves and
25:33
i think we talked about this on the on the last episode we did on surfing
25:36
for swimmers um it's not easy to get this gig is it
25:39
because it's wonderful if you do want to do this and you want
25:42
to if you're a really empathetic person you want to help these athletes
25:45
but it's there's only two of you were there.
25:48
In terms of sports therapists or massage therapists wasn't there
25:51
yes yeah there were yeah so it's
25:54
something to work up to but i think we talked in the last episode about what you
25:56
can do if you are interested in working and with athletes
26:00
who have got disabilities of some form and and there
26:02
is things you can do because it does strike me as something where we are
26:05
we've talked about this before we are basically if we are prepared
26:09
to rub oil through the back of a hairy man and not
26:12
get paid much for it then there's a certain amount of empathy there
26:15
isn't it you're not doing it for the money you know or to brag about i
26:18
mean it's because you want to help someone you want that oh my god that feels so much
26:20
good you're amazing that's what you kind of do it for isn't it thanks at the
26:23
end of the day so to be fair i i had actually
26:26
come across an amputee just within my clinical experience
26:29
anyway who was non-military he'd been a
26:32
carla i told you who it was earlier
26:35
on i can't remember what sport it was the cross he was he was yeah motocross
26:40
thank you and he he he'd ended up with with an amputation due to an injury i
26:47
think through motocross and he he had a similar sense of humor actually to to
26:53
the guys and the fact that.
26:55
He was adapting his own foot and his you know and and doing all sorts of different
27:00
things because he was a mechanic by trade so he was sort of looking at it very
27:04
from a mechanical kind of kind of point of view and yeah so i i'd experienced
27:08
that and we we sort of worked together.
27:11
For a good six months to a year just trying
27:14
to help him get back to motocross which was actually what he
27:17
had kind of wanted to do so fantastic possible there's a possibility you know
27:22
people are just going to walk into your clinic who who have uh disparities and
27:26
who need help so oh definitely no it's happened to me and it's and at the end
27:31
of the day anything Anything outside of the norm is such a healthy thing to do.
27:35
I mean, it's what makes you as a person, isn't it? When you meet people with
27:38
different experiences, and that includes physically, as well as kind of mental
27:41
attitudes and things like that. So yeah.
27:44
Moving over to Rich and Dickie, what was it like for you guys?
27:48
Obviously, everyone's got different stages of mental health when they go to
27:51
these games and having good days and bad days.
27:53
Had you had soft tissue work from therapist before, or was it a little bit strange
27:57
for you with, I suppose, what was then a stranger coming in and saying,
28:01
oh, I can do this for you if you want? Thank you.
28:03
You take it, mate. Thanks, Ducky. So I had three years at rehab,
28:09
which is an awful long time.
28:11
And I had lots of physiotherapists and lots of occupational therapists.
28:14
And the physios were great, but it was more of a bee sting than anything else.
28:18
So it was how to maximize the muscle in your remaining quad and blah,
28:23
blah, blah, that kind of stuff.
28:24
So I didn't really get much soft tissue stuff with the exception of scar massage.
28:28
And because I had so many different scars, they would tether quite a lot.
28:31
So I got lots of cupping and scar massage which was brilliant and then I had
28:35
nothing for about a year and a half and then turned up to Invictus and met Jenny
28:39
and Carla and it was like a revelation,
28:41
it was like oh my goodness that kind of niggle that I've had for the last two
28:45
years in my stump was all caused by some some scar tissue in my hamstring and
28:51
you know Carla and Jenny were able to work that out and all of a sudden I had
28:53
no pain in my stump and something as simple.
28:55
As you know a 30 minute rub or 20 minute rub on my
28:58
hamstring meant I could walk reasonably pain free again
29:01
which is great that's fantastic so so for
29:05
you it was a case of because i'm interested obviously for
29:08
the therapist if they haven't seen for anybody who hadn't seen
29:11
somebody with an amputation it's it's weird
29:14
isn't it there's something missing our brains just don't compute it you know
29:17
which is why on tv now i think they're doing a really good job in
29:20
more and more shows they're having characters who are missing an arm or missing
29:24
a leg and they're normalizing it it so our brains just don't go what the hell's
29:27
going on there so but still for therapists you know I remember with a particular
29:32
one person that I was looking after when they turned over and they had no legs
29:36
from above the knee it was a.
29:39
Bomb that went off and they'd actually taken up
29:42
formula one motor racing or something it's incredible
29:45
and they told me a story of how sometimes they'd come off their bike
29:47
but their prosthetic limbs would stay on the bike and they just laughed at the
29:50
people who were watching this bike go around with the legs still on it
29:53
and nobody else but a great character but i
29:56
remember just taking a moment just to go okay my brain
29:59
is doing like laps here because there's such a big chunk of
30:02
this person missing but i'm wondering on the other way around
30:05
do you guys are you sensing what
30:08
the person who's about to lay their hands on you is feeling or
30:11
their body language if you feel they're a bit apprehensive do you expect them
30:14
to be a little bit kind of inquisitive at first if they haven't come across
30:17
somebody with a stump especially when it comes to touching because i've i've
30:20
heard that the well i know through experience that what you expect to
30:23
feel on a stump is very much different than what it actually is
30:26
so yeah is it what's it
30:28
like for you guys uh so my wife
30:32
and i actually went away for a nice work some weekend you know got couples
30:35
massage the masseuse i had she's never
30:38
i'm sounding too posh now it was probably
30:43
she done so it was more of a treat but i don't know
30:45
she'd never yeah she'd never had an
30:48
empty team so when she got down to massage the leg she was like i asked her
30:54
what's the question it's like how does she go about it i was like i don't know
30:56
i've never sort of been down this sort of path um so she's mostly focused on
31:01
the upper part of the leg and just very sort of gentle but she was very sort
31:05
of cautious and apprehensive about.
31:07
You know, this is, this is a new thing to her. So what does she do?
31:11
And I'm more than happy to sort of just, you know, just crack on,
31:15
do what you think is natural.
31:16
You know, there's no issues there, but yeah, you can tell we'd like to call
31:20
Jenny and, you know, other therapists, you know, we've sort of worked with.
31:25
You can tell we've dealt with people with various, you know,
31:27
injuries, limb loss and whatnot, because they will simply just ask you a question,
31:32
what you're comfortable with.
31:33
But no amputation is exactly the same, which has got a shorter stump than I've got.
31:38
So the anatomy of it, the end of the stump is going to be slightly different
31:41
to mine. I've got a bit more calf muscles to work with, whereas he hasn't.
31:44
So this is where obviously their expertise and just working with the patient
31:48
or the client, you know, that's the relationship you can build on it.
31:51
So you don't necessarily as the patient
31:54
or client feel super uncomfortable
31:57
if if the you give the therapist some
32:00
space and time to get used to if it's their first sort of time you're happy with
32:03
that or do you think oh why didn't they yeah no no it doesn't like i said it
32:07
doesn't bother me you're somebody's always going to be caught off guard by particularly
32:11
obviously if it's the first patient of this so yeah it's just just give them
32:15
that moment lets it sink in some people are absolutely fine with it and we'll
32:18
just crack on but you know if you can tell they're a bit uncertain.
32:22
Just you know just talk to us you know at the end they were
32:25
still we're still people at the end of the day and you know
32:28
if we're comfortable talking about it we're going to guide you in the right
32:30
direction exactly a communication i wanted to check as well because both of
32:34
you said a couple of times the word amputees and i kind of read and was told
32:40
at some stage that it's some people find that kind of derogatory because you're
32:43
kind of just saying oh yeah i'm an amputee as in that's That's what I am now.
32:47
It's my definition as opposed to a person who's had a limb amputated or something.
32:50
But you guys are happy with I'm an amputee?
32:53
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. For me, yeah. As an individual then.
32:55
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's personal preference.
33:00
Hey there, Matt Phillips here. Sorry to interrupt the podcast.
33:03
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33:08
there is a Sports Therapy Association discount code that will get you 15% off
33:14
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33:16
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34:01
Doesn't include already discounted bundles i'm looking
34:06
for questions here i had let's scroll up we did get a question here from nikki
34:10
mansfield let's just bring that up onto the screen sorry i left you for so long
34:13
nikki with this question i did see it appear nikki was interested saying so
34:16
did all the crps symptoms disappear post amputation i think that was referring
34:20
probably back to rich potter and i think it was rich david i think it was dickie
34:23
actually one of you said like.
34:25
Within a certain period of time all of the
34:28
pain just disappeared yes as soon as
34:31
i came around i said and the anesthetic wore off that constant
34:34
pain that was always there it was gone and you just left
34:37
obviously with surgical pain obviously they've just removed your foot but yeah
34:40
it was just you could almost feel that color
34:43
coming back in straight away it was like oh my god that constant
34:47
agonizing gnawing you know sickening
34:50
pain that's always there it's to have it go for the first
34:53
time in two years was just fantastic for
34:57
you fantastic good question nikki gary benson
35:00
founder of the sda has just said yesterday was founded because i
35:03
wanted to support people supporting injured persons i'm ex-army medical discharge
35:06
in 92 had few reconstructions in titanium shoulder but
35:09
all now okay thankfully yeah definitely
35:13
i'm hoping that i mean there's a lot of common themes here
35:16
about treating the individual in front of you as a person talking
35:19
to them regardless of what's going on remember at the end of any
35:21
injury or disability there's a person at the end we've talked about
35:25
this regards to mental health and physical health so i think
35:27
it's one of those things where if you're a good therapist and you know the power
35:30
of listening to people then it all just falls into place and david james moncrieff
35:34
says you guys were amazing i have so much respect for you both as friends i
35:38
know how much you're amazing wives and kids oh come on now let's not start us
35:41
all down this road david but we'll do it yeah i know i know how much you're amazing.
35:46
Kids have been rocks throughout your recovery my question
35:49
is will they be able just scroll this
35:52
down a bit will they be able to fly out to
35:55
me after the last leg no pun intended of this epic journey also i can't wait
36:00
to follow this journey and see who is the big spoon in the tent definitely i'll
36:06
be big spoon six foot four i'm definitely big spoon sorry rich i think i I think
36:13
with a tash like that made,
36:14
you're always going to be a big spoon. Yeah, just call me Magnum.
36:21
So, yeah, what's the plan? Are you getting family out at the end of this event?
36:25
Or it's a bit too far away, isn't it?
36:28
Unfortunately not. Unless a millionaire is going to happily donate their private
36:32
jet to fly their families out.
36:34
Yeah, a bit of transit. We'd love to. Yeah, yeah.
36:37
As much as we'd love to have them out there, the flights alone are astronomical.
36:41
Call so we just look forward to getting back and seeing them at the other end,
36:46
Fantastic. The last leg is officially, as of today, a couple of nights in a
36:52
nice hotel in Delhi with a pool where we will just be scouring the streets looking
36:56
for the cheapest massage we can get.
36:59
Official massage, I should say. Official massage.
37:02
Carla and Jenny will have something to say about that. Yeah.
37:07
Cheaper isn't always better, Dickie. Absolutely not.
37:11
Carla and Jenny, I'm really interested then in the time we've got
37:14
left to hear about some of the things you were doing with Rich
37:19
and Dickie maybe touching on yeah some
37:21
of the physical stuff you found that was helpful the hands and stuff that you
37:25
found did work for these two particular athletes so I just want to jump back
37:30
to like when Rich was saying about people sorry when Dickie was saying about
37:33
people as a therapist not really being very confident I remember some of
37:39
my first few days in Victor's camps I was very aware of the language that I
37:46
was using because I would find myself like I would say to patients oh I'm on
37:50
top on the couch now I was mortified when I said that because obviously these two guys don't have a leg.
37:57
But very quickly I sort
38:01
of checked myself and was like then decided to have that discussion with them
38:05
about like can I say this is this okay kind of but having that confidence to
38:11
say to them is this okay like can I do this takes a lot but I think had I not
38:18
have done that I wouldn't,
38:19
potentially be able to treat them the way that I do now does that make sense
38:24
definitely yeah having that confidence and communication but yeah definitely
38:30
and I think in terms of what you're were saying about treatment wise,
38:35
whilst Rich and Dickie have got the same.
38:40
Injury so sort of amputation their percentage limb loss is very different which
38:45
means some of the things that I can do easily with Dickie I can't do with Rich
38:50
and I have to adapt my treatments and,
38:53
I try very sort of directly to treat them as individuals I don't try and shoehorn
39:00
them both into the same treatment or the same thing I work with them in terms
39:05
of what do they want what do do they want out of our session and I'm very much
39:09
led by them and sort of go from there and use,
39:14
what I know like from my training my qualifications and try and sort of give
39:21
them a little bit of knowledge as well and impart some stuff onto them so that
39:24
they can self-manage while they're away,
39:26
because obviously they're away for a long period
39:30
of time and there might be things that crop up that they need to sort of sort
39:35
themselves basically interesting can you think of any examples off hand not
39:39
to put you on the spot but what's some of the advice you're giving them so like
39:42
we've another session before they go away and i'm going to go through sort of some.
39:49
Basic sort of like first aid and taping sort of
39:52
things with rich so that he can take them out
39:55
and use them sort of obviously touch wood
39:59
praying that none of this happens and that they don't need to use
40:02
any of the knowledge that I give them but for example if they
40:05
rolled an ankle I'm going to teach them how to tape their one
40:07
good ankle so they can carry on with the track things like
40:12
hamstring stretches working on glute and
40:15
piriformis for both of them how to help each other
40:18
sort of with hip releases on their prosthetic
40:21
side because the prosthetics that they're being given and if I'm right correct
40:26
from wrong boys they are heavier than their normal ones so it changes how how
40:31
they walk slightly and obviously the terrain out there is very different to
40:34
just walking on a flat pavement so it's little sort of self-management things like that.
40:40
Brilliant. That answers Nikki's question there, who's asking about whether you're
40:45
teaching any hands-on techniques to help each other cope along the way.
40:48
Brilliant. Jenny, what have you found helps and you've been doing and maybe
40:52
any advice you've given?
40:54
So, Carl has been working with the lads a little bit more recently.
40:57
I work with them much more during Invictus, so it's a little longer ago.
41:02
Go but yeah i i think that
41:06
the top tips similar to when we spoke
41:08
about swimming really is you've got to treat everybody individually and you've
41:13
your communication has got to be on point not just from what you're saying to
41:18
them but the questions that you're asking them about where they're finding the
41:24
pain and also be prepared that what you first try with them isn't necessarily
41:28
going to be the solution that you might
41:31
have to come up with sort of several different approaches to
41:34
the same initial problem really and also
41:38
looking much further up the chain then then potentially you would have done
41:42
and and really thinking about your your sling systems and and and and sort of
41:48
yeah your muscle chains really yeah I think that's and and as Carla says The
41:54
thing that's most important is that,
41:56
you know, when somebody is going to play sport,
41:59
the stress is put through their body for a slightly shorter period of time.
42:03
These guys are going to have a different stress put through their body the whole time.
42:07
So certainly educating them and giving them things for them to take away and
42:11
do themselves really do make a big difference.
42:15
Great, great advice. Yeah, it's going to be a long game, isn't it?
42:18
So yeah, in for the long haul.
42:21
Rich and Dickie, what are some of the things which you're prepared for?
42:26
And have you got any kind of tricks out your sleeve already of how to deal with
42:31
it? What do you think you're going to have to do?
42:33
And what have you got to sleep to deal with it? Yeah.
42:36
Or are you just got that kind of, it's going to be plain sailing,
42:40
just going to walk, sleep, walk, sleep, and then it'll be over?
42:41
I mean in a perfect world yeah that's
42:44
that's how we like to go but we in reality we know it's
42:47
not going to you know going back to what richard's saying about the sock
42:50
you know having a good fitting socket we're at risk it
42:53
soars you know even feeling the fatigue in the hamstrings and the quads so this
42:57
is where you know looking after each other you know looking out for the signs
43:00
of you know we know each other's gait you know we know when the discomfort and
43:06
the muscle aches are setting in and you know working with our guides it's taking
43:10
those extra rest breaks you You know,
43:11
if I have to get an elbow in into one of his glutes, you know,
43:15
to free it up or whatever,
43:16
you know, courtesy of the girls, you know, tipsy tortoises,
43:20
then, you know, it's something we're going to do at the end of the day.
43:22
You know, we're trying to set a world record and we've got to look after each
43:25
other and we'll use all the knowledge that both of them can impart on us.
43:30
Fantastic. And you, Rich, are you foreseeing any potential issues and how are
43:33
you going to deal with it? I mean, hopefully it's only an elbow in my glute, Dickie.
43:39
And the thing will... Definitely an A-team.
43:42
Is this safe for kids? No, not this particular episode. You too?
43:45
Not at all. I don't want to come back on.
43:50
I don't see anything drastic happening. I mean, we have got very expensive insurance
43:55
because 90% of Baruch is inaccessible by road.
43:58
So the only way out is going to be a heli. So if someone does roll an ankle,
44:01
then guess what? You're not walking 200km to get out. So it'll be a helicopter evacuation.
44:07
We've got we're bringing crutches with us we've got like an eye walk frame i
44:10
don't know if you've heard of that we've got an eye walk frame we're taking
44:13
with us as well and we've got our spare legs so aside from dressings and tiger
44:17
balm and it's probably a swear word in your world which i'm going to say uh
44:21
we're bringing a theragun with us which i i appreciate is a bit controversial,
44:26
amongst therapists but we're yeah we're going to bring a little theragun with
44:29
us there's nothing wrong with that what little machine that goes.
44:33
That's fine don't worry it's not swearing if you told me that in 2010 i
44:36
would have got all cynical and funny about it but hey we've evolved since there
44:39
if it makes you feel better hey put it in there it's like
44:42
i've changed it lots since 10 years ago well you
44:44
were but there's no
44:48
like placebo i won't go down that road if it makes you
44:51
feel better then it's perfect you know it's and
44:54
there's things we can't explain if you have chinese medicine off a chinese doctor
44:57
or work if you go to somebody down in chemtown in brighton it
44:59
probably won't so the context is really important so yeah now
45:02
you take what works for you jesus i hope you don't think that i was going to criticize that
45:05
that's great no brilliant go for it and even
45:08
have an epsom salt bath if you want to along the way if you believe that
45:11
the epsom goes into your body and absorbs it and kills toxins that's
45:14
great it's fine you go you two would be so lucky
45:17
to have a bath along the way what am i talking about yeah we've got
45:20
three showers in 35 days lovely right
45:25
well look it sounds like an amazing challenge there's another question here
45:29
from nikki which i'll read out assuming you haven't found any therapist crazy
45:32
enough to be your traveling support team on the the entire trip oh no that was
45:35
it yeah have they taught you any hands and techniques when we heard about yep
45:38
touching the glutes and that we won't go down that road again that's fine good
45:42
question Nikki right well look it is three minutes go on.
45:46
Matt, very quickly, Carla has been very kind in donating her time at hands with
45:50
Dickie and I over the last couple of months. And we've got one more session to go.
45:53
But actually, we had a session on Saturday and Carla got right in there.
45:57
And I said at the end of the session, if I was wealthy enough,
45:59
I would have that every day because she just made me feel so good in and out
46:03
of my socket. It was just it was wonderful.
46:05
So thank you for that, Carla. Very well. I'm truly grateful.
46:10
That's why she does it. That's why she does it. Yeah. You can never thank a
46:14
therapist enough. I love it.
46:15
Brilliant fantastic well look guys like i said you're actually leaving
46:18
originally was uh supposed to be in october wasn't it but i think
46:21
you're leaving was it five weeks or something you've got it booked for we're off
46:24
in four weeks yeah we uh yeah fly out on a
46:27
month today yeah third of october we set off how exciting
46:31
so yeah we really want to see some people getting engaged
46:34
and following on the trek to what extent will people
46:37
be able to follow you with updates and that sort of stuff you're not
46:40
going to have like a you're going to have like a gps signal
46:43
on you which people can follow and see where you are or unfortunately budget
46:46
restraints trying to pull in enough sponsors to reach our financial
46:49
goal was a little bit of a struggle but we
46:52
you know there are some unbelievable areas where
46:55
you know they don't even have electric right so with the
46:58
little areas we do get pockets of signal we will
47:01
be getting our guides out you know and ourselves to
47:04
do little updates via our instagram to help
47:07
you on our website and yeah hopefully people might might be
47:09
able to track us along some of the way but god bear in mind this is the
47:13
very remote himalayas you know there are no phone masks
47:16
nearby to be honest probably got better signal we've got norwich so no
47:21
ticket norwich but that's great so yeah the instagram that's the best place
47:25
for people to follow you which is or put in the show notes as well but at the
47:28
underscore limbless which is l-i-m-b-i-t-l-e-s underscore expedition that's
47:34
correct isn't it that's the best place but hey hey, that might be huge for you.
47:37
Imagine if you are suffering and it's like, oh, feeling down and then suddenly you do get this.
47:43
Moment of signal where you look at countless messages of
47:46
support on instagram that could have a huge impact on you couldn't psychologically
47:49
think come on we can do this and yeah yeah we know there's gonna be low days
47:52
you know the tiredness the missing home is going to really kick in so any any
47:56
support that people can give whether it's donating to the charity sparing us
48:00
on i mean just sharing the journey to inspire others that will mean everything to us,
48:04
fantastic you heard it people and i do encourage listeners
48:07
to the podcast to go and check out again on the
48:10
on the just giving pages it it tells you in detail what the
48:13
expedition involves and gives you a little history and talks about the charities
48:16
blesma and also royal blesma and
48:20
the british legion both fantastic charities so
48:23
yeah do go people and please go and pledge a
48:25
little bit it'd be great put some money on there especially like i
48:28
say on dickie who's looking a little bit less um i
48:31
don't know why that is what's that about it's not a popularity contest obviously but
48:34
but yeah it's not getting you down as a dickie the fact that you're
48:37
about out no no no do you know what rich has got some really
48:40
really great contacts he's got so much you know he's knows quite
48:42
a few people who uh yeah been very generous um but come
48:45
on a few more towards rbl would be nice as well it'd be nice
48:48
to balance them out and then just bring them up together yeah uh gary benson
48:51
says good luck jen so i'll be keeping up today as much as we can carla can post
48:54
any updates in our groups that's true that's a great point as well we'll be
48:57
following you with with great excitement and hey i'd love i love the thought
49:01
of you actually getting a signal and seeing the support you've got out there so amazing.
49:07
Right. It is nine o'clock, people. So those of you who joined us in the live
49:10
last, thank you very much. Makes all the difference to have people joining us live.
49:13
It doesn't have to be many of you. Once upon a time, it was loads. Now it's a select few.
49:16
But the feedback we get is we like it being recorded live, even when there's
49:20
like kind of technical difficulties at the beginning.
49:22
So thank you. If you listen to the podcast and again, thank you very much.
49:25
What you can do, podcast listener or kind of like 2100 of you,
49:29
then do please leave a review or rating on Google.
49:32
Google on apple podcast would be great we've got
49:35
about like under less than 50 and yet there's like two and
49:38
a half thousand downloads so something isn't working with the math okay just
49:41
please especially on an iphone it takes you a second if you're on android it's
49:44
a little bit more complicated you have to do various leaps and jumps and things
49:48
but iphone users do please if you enjoy this and you listen regularly and you
49:51
are one of the downloaders then leave us a rating a five make it simple be great
49:55
right next week talking of joining us live here next week on september the 10th,
50:00
we're going to be going back to talk about Therapy Expo in episode 212,
50:04
Exercise Prescription, Why Communication Matters, with special guests Andrew
50:07
McCauley and Andy Hosgood.
50:09
Like I said, both Andrew and Andy have got presentations in the STA Theatre
50:12
at Therapy Expo this coming November 27th and 28th.
50:15
So it'll be a great chance to listen to them, what they're about,
50:18
and maybe make some decisions as to whether you're going to come to the STA
50:20
Theatre to hear both of their presentations.
50:24
Until then, take care of all. I'll hopefully see some of you for the live recording
50:27
next Tuesday 8 o'clock on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube channel once
50:31
again thank you to our guests.
50:32
Carla and Rich and Dickie and Jenny thanks for giving up your time everyone
50:36
thank you thank you thanks for having us absolutely a pleasure we're looking
50:39
I'm so looking forward to hearing
50:41
about all the success stories in about seven weeks time or something,
50:46
you're welcome to touching wood everyone I'm like Dickie here touching wood there you go,
50:51
what a great note to end on thanks people take care of each other we'll see you soon.
50:55
Music.