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Trends in Gardening: Live at the Mid-Atlantic Nursery Trade Show! · Talking Trees with Davey Tree

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Doug Oester.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, our expert arborists will share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Another special episode today.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with our friend Lou Meyer.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: He is an arborist for the Davy Tree Export Company based in Baltimore, and we are actually sitting face to face once a year.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: We see each other at the Mid-Atlantic Nursery Trade Show.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And Lou, it's always fun to see you, buddy.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to see you too, Doug.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this show is an annual hit here in the region, and people come from all over the country.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm originally from Cincinnati, Ohio, and I see all sorts of friends from Cincy coming in, uh, nursery people, landscapers, folks from the zoo.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so folks from all over the country are here just to celebrate uh horticulture, to learn about different plants that are out there right now, and uh to catch up with one another.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's the perfect time to talk about trends.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: It sure is.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's what everyone's talking about.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: When we're walking around that, and I mean, folks, you can't believe the convention center here is filled from one side to the other with everything, gardening trees, shrubs, everything you could possibly imagine.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot to see.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the bonuses usually.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, unusual this year it's about 60 degrees and sunny outside, but generally right now in Baltimore, it's January 8th, uh, usually it's about 20 degrees in gray, and you walk into the convention center, and it's all the trees are in bloom, the flowers are out, everything's colorful, everyone's thrilled.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: It it really helps us get through the winter here.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Last year I was in four-wheel drive the whole way here.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it gets wicked.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're thinking trends and you're looking around down on the floor, what's the first thing that comes to mind for you?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, one of the big themes, themes that I'm seeing and hearing is uh an anticipation of inflation driving smaller projects.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we're seeing this across the the industry, not just in landscape, but in large-scale tree projects also.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it's understandable, you know, markets change budgets, and people are looking at uh their expenditures and saying, hey, why don't we instead of doing the full project this year, uh full landscape project, maybe we do the hardscape this year and we put in the plantings until next year or uh or other options like that that can help offset some of those expenditures.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: People aren't shutting down their large-scale projects, they're just piecing it out over time to make more budgetary sense.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Which, you know, as a homeowner myself, as a father, you know, we think about these things for our family projects also.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's as usual.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And just economic driven, it just depends on how the economy goes.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, economic driven, uh like most things.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's out there.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: But but some of the some of the key things that I am seeing, um, one is climate adaptability.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So people are starting to look towards uh different approaches to landscaping with climate change in mind.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: So designing with change in mind.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: One of the big ones with that, it's been going on for a long time, is low maintenance plants, low maintenance plant varieties uh for less requirements, so less uh uh nutrient requirements, less fertilization, less herbicide, and less water is the big thing, you know.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I first heard about xeroscaping back in, I don't know, 2010 when I was landscaping in Ohio, and now, and that was in specific regions.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about xeroscaping, and that's zeri, x-e-r-i, not zero.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of people confuse that.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want a zero landscape.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: We want landscape.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I might want to do a little bit of zero landscape.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds pretty good, right?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's at this time of my career.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'll do some zeros.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, at the time that was big in California and Colorado, places with water restrictions, but we're seeing it around the country.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: People are just saying, hey, this makes more sense of why am I going to plant a high um high needs uh product in my garden that's going to just take up tons of water and products.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um looking for those drought tolerant species.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're also starting to look bel at a zone below us for inspiration.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk about USDA hardiness zones.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what are you guys here in Baltimore?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're right around a six or seven, depending on who you talk to.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Six, seven.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking towards sevens and even eights?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, some eights.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, we're I have a here's here's an idea.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I live here in in next to Baltimore, and I had a client when I was doing residential uh arbiculture, I had a client uh just outside of DC, and they had a live oak, and it was doing a-okay.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was told live oaks can't grow up here.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's doing fine.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they've had it for about 15, well, at this point, probably about 20 years, and uh and I know it's still in good shape.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, live oaks could be an option here.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've I have some friends of mine who are jokingly somewhat talking about bringing in mangroves to help stabilize the shorelines in the Chesapeake Bay.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's really gonna happen, but it's a fun thought.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um so but yeah, looking to zone below for inspiration, you know, we're starting to see some of the more colder climate species not doing as well.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: So think about things like sugar maples.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing okay, but they're not doing great.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's the one that always comes to mind is the sugar maple.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is a favorite tree of arborists, but with the change in weather, they're just not doing what they used to do.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, they're not.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of uh a lot of them are being succumbing to pests and diseases that they used to be able to overcome uh just because they were healthier.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, you mentioned drought tolerant.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are you thinking when you're putting plants in that are drought tolerant?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: What what are you looking at uh as far as selecting them?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Ones that that like science has told us like doesn't need that much water, or species that don't need much water, or how do you how do you quantify that?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're looking at species, you know, the native push has been around for a long time, and that's a big deal of using natives that are used to our our culture here.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the the problem is that the species are not evolving as quickly as our climate is changing.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So even native species are going to have trouble here, which is why we're looking south for inspiration.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not looking, you know, here in Maryland to Florida or Arizona, but just a few down.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, no, you talk to, you know, for for homeowners, if you're if you're thinking about this, you know, you could talk to your local nursery when you're looking for plants and say, hey, I want something that's a little more drought tolerant.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but keep in mind here in the Mid Atlantic, we also have deluges, so it's it can't be 100% drought tolerant.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there are fun species like uh river birch.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: River birch is uh, and I I say drought tolerant in river birch, you're probably rolling your eyes.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But river birch is the dura heat cultivar can handle long periods of drought just fine.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: It could also grow in a river.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh black gums are another one that can handle drought pretty well, but they can grow in a lot of moisture.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you are herberous and your black gums.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we love them.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: We love them.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Not to be confused with sweet gums.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: We always have to put that out.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: But if you ever see a black gum change color in the fall, and and we have them up in Pittsburgh, it's an unmistakable tree and a beautiful tree and easy to grow.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Big though.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh yeah, they get big, but they're wonderful.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Another trend we're seeing is uh outdoor living spaces.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So more people are spending more time outside.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this has been a trend since COVID, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: When people were living at home, um hasn't stopped.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think people who had neighbors who installed outdoor living spaces during COVID are now going, hey, I really like this.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want I want that too.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're seeing things like outdoor televisions, outdoor refrigerators being installed into our hardscape landscape plans.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, outdoor pizza ovens are the big thing right now, too.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So so seeing that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then my neighbor just put one in.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm hinting around as much as I can.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, hey, cook me some of that, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they texted me, and the other young couple texted me.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, do you have a pickaxe?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, sure, sure.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're putting it in a pizza oven.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, ding, ding, ding.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, here it is.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: A pickaxe and a bottle of rose.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds good.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be right over.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Can't wait to taste it.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that I wanted to bring up uh about these outdoor spaces and COVID is privacy.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that has become a a thing where at a certain point uh a green giant was a little harder to get than that that's a very popular evergreen that a lot of people use to create a private space.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, private spaces are big, yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's another uh another trend we're seeing is private and small spaces.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So think about intimate spaces or or nooks, that's a popular word right now, a buzzword for that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um so small spaces that you can uh you know comfortably disappear into to relax.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: But like Green Giant, it's like 40 feet tall, but aren't there other ones that are smaller than you can put on?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are other cultivars of arborvitae if you want to do that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Techie is one, spring grove is another.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Those get, I want to say 15 to 20 feet tall, six to eight feet wide.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, but they still get that pyramidal Christmas tree shape that you don't get with like the um uh emerald green, which is just the the column.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I believe they're also less susceptible to bagworms and deer damage, also.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the deer don't quite like the uh the the green giants as much.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: We don't use that four-letter word on this podcast.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: The deer, they're everywhere.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can't imagine.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but in those small spaces you also see use of garden accents.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So things like fountains and art pieces.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I see this year walking around the show floor, I saw, or maybe I just observed more, um, garden art.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot out there, and and big pots and statuary, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, things that you could use in the front yard as an accent piece, but you could also drop into a nice little enclosed area in the backyard, and that's that's your private space.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the things that homeowners don't think about.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I go to a garden and they want me to look around and see what what's what that should be done, but they're missing benches and they're missing beautiful containers and they're missing some statues and some focal points.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: That ties it together.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: It gives you places to stop and think, gives you places to stop and focus, and it's all part of the experience.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're also seeing a trend towards the natural feel.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So using natural materials like stone and wood.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's still a place for metal, and metal's a natural thing, don't get me wrong, but um, but not quite as much as the stone and wood.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there's I see more wood trellises than metal trellises being used these days.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have a metal trellis at home, I love it, so I'm not dissing those.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Just this is the way it's going.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um interestingly, this is creating a market for trade crafts.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, trade crafts like masonry and with the use of the metal um uh you know, smithies, so you know, industries that had seen a downturn in the past you know 50 years, you're seeing more interest in those custom pieces, a a custom trellis made by a blacksmith or custom stonework, you know, if it's a dry laid wall or um or other uses of stonework by by masons who are laying them.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well that's interesting that you bring that up because I I recently interviewed a horticulturalist uh from a garden called Chanticleer, which is in Wayne PA, and half the year they're spending like in a wood shop.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that they're building stuff for the garden because they can't garden during the winter.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, we're seeing that in our homes too.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, so you you get that coming out.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh part of that natural feel also is something called curated wildness.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what we're seeing a lot in the gardens are a move away from the formal hedgerows and the rest, and and more of that wildness but controlled.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think of like people's gardens that look like meadows, um, but strategic meadows.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they take work, you know.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: People think, oh I know, that's hard to establish and make it look right.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got a friend that is doing that, yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: That has a a specific area uh where she wants it to be wild, but it can't be too wild.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's the trick.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and you know, it the difference, people think, oh, just put a meadow out there and that's how it'll be.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, weeds will come up in a meadow and trees will grow in a meadow.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, pear trees will pop up because birds are dropping pears.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they do take work.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a zero maintenance uh thing.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: A good example, like in a big public garden, uh Pittsburgh Botanic Garden, they have a meadow, but they cut it to the ground every three years so that the scrub trees and that stuff doesn't come up.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we have we have places here that do that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm involved with the Howard County Conservancy and we have meadows where it's the same thing.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a managed meadow.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I've seen commercial properties do that.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Back when I was in Cincinnati, uh Procter and Gamble had a plant uh north of the city in Mason, and they stopped mowing the giant fields.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: They would just mow like five or six passes around the outside, and they would allow the interior uh acreage to go to meadow.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, every year they'd bush hog it down and uh it to make sure that and and and pluck out any uh trees that are growing the rest.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought it was a really unique approach.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, so then that acreage doesn't take uh nitrogen fertilization, it doesn't take watering, uh it's uh habitat for all sorts of critters.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's a really interesting approach.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that that curated wildness, uh part of that natural field trend.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that somebody could come to like uh one of the the uh Davy teams and try and get implemented, or was that on a commercial site, yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: We probably wouldn't do that for homeowners.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: We could give some guidance on it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're managing a property, or if you're uh or if you're a property manager, obviously manage property, um, then yeah, on those on that scale, we can do those things for sure.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and part of that natural also is moving away from synthetic turf, there was a bit of a bubble where that was really popular, and there's definitely uses for synthetic turf out there.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the the the big push for it is starting to subside some, and people are saying, no, I want to go back to the grass.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you have a high traffic area, especially if you're a commercial property and you have a high traffic area that's just destroyed, synthetic turf makes sense.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a corner, you're an HOA, and you got one of those islands that sticks out in the parking lot that has a six-foot by six-foot turf spot that everyone puts their trash cans on, you can never grow turf on it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be a good spot for it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there are places.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, uh the other big one that we're seeing, and and we've talked about this the past two years, is technology advances.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Technology is going to continue to advance, it's becoming more and more part of the industry.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the cool things that I saw this year was uh the LED lights that they're putting in now.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: So LED takes far less energy, but you can program it through uh computer programs to do all sorts of cool things.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you could change your lighting color with the click of a button, you can troll it with your phone.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you could change all your landscape color with the click of a button, you can change different uh volume of light, so if it's bright or not, you can put on light shows with them.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: All sorts of wild stuff.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny, when we were walk walking up here, I just seen a presentation on a luminescent uh petunia.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so we talk about technology, we talk about changes and how uh th this basically glowing petunia could be planted on a the side of a walkway to just the it's endless the the possibilities as technology changes what we're doing.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, you could line a driveway with bioluminescent plants to help folks not veer off the driveway, all sorts of cool things.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I've noticed here at Mance is that breeders are uh creating plants that are smaller.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for smaller spaces.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about smaller spaces.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you gotta have smaller plants to go in there too.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of trends that way.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh finally, AI is in everything now, so everything from those lighting systems to uh landscape planning tools.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that you know down here on the show floor at Mance, they've got a lot of landscape design tools and AI is being used in that to expedite the services, a lot in the communications field and other things.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a changing world, it's a growing world, Doug.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: It well, it was great to see each other again face to face here in Baltimore.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, next year we're gonna go out uh for some Korean food.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Korean food and crab cakes eventually.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be the second year in a row.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've had a crab cake while I'm here just because we've been so busy.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, as always, thanks uh again for everything.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know we'll be talking soon.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Doug.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Take care, buddy.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Always great to catch up with Lou.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: We recorded another really fun episode there at Mance, so stay tuned.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Doug Oester, and as always, wanting you to subscribe to the podcast.
• 17:30
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• 17:32
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