Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / LIFE VEST LIES: OVERBOARD LYNETTE HOOKER HUBBY WALKS FREE

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LIFE VEST LIES: OVERBOARD LYNETTE HOOKER HUBBY WALKS FREE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Life vest lies overboard in
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the Bahamas, Lynette Hooker's husband walks free. This as we learned,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the flotation device he says he threw to her is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: found floating in the ocean. We find it, but not her.
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  Speaker 1: And why is he roaming free? I'm Nancy Grace. This
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  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
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  Speaker 1: with us. She bounced off the dinghy. How does a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: person bounce?
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  Speaker 2: Okay?
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  Speaker 1: And then the darn moon. The moon wasn't up yet,
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  Speaker 1: so he couldn't see.
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  Speaker 3: Every one of those coincidences, as you called him, are
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  Speaker 3: explainable and do not mean beyond the reasonable that he
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  Speaker 3: was Chelsey, I don't have a wife.
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  Speaker 4: She belongs with me.
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  Speaker 1: That is Brian Hooker, Lynnette Hooker's husband, speaking out to
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  Speaker 1: our friends at ABC. And yes he's not behind bars,
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  Speaker 1: he is not detained, he is not in custody. Let's
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  Speaker 1: hear more of what he has to say upon his
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  Speaker 1: triumphant release.
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  Speaker 3: Brian, it's not just any message about finding your wife,
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  Speaker 3: any message about finding your wife.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
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  Speaker 5: Do you know where you're gonna go now?
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  Speaker 4: I'm not sure yet?
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  Speaker 5: All right?
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  Speaker 6: Did he ask about Lynette.
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  Speaker 7: He just literally walked out, so he has not had
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  Speaker 7: any time. But throughout the time that he was here,
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  Speaker 7: he was asking a.
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  Speaker 8: Vouter, I won't be able to stop looking.
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  Speaker 4: You want to keep looking for Lynette.
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  Speaker 8: I'm going to need somebody with more authority to tell
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  Speaker 8: me to stop.
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  Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong. Randolph Rice, veteran trial lawyer.
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  Speaker 1: But he's not looking right there. He's sitting in a
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  Speaker 1: living room, apparently giving TV interview, speaking of that's where
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  Speaker 1: my friends at Fox, NBC and CBS. He's not out looking.
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  Speaker 1: He's sitting there, well groomed, well manicured, with his lawyer
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  Speaker 1: giving interviews.
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  Speaker 4: Smart, very smart. This is what he should be doing,
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  Speaker 4: a combination of looking for his wife and also keeping
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  Speaker 4: the pressure on the media to keep this story out there,
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  Speaker 4: because as long as he keeps talking about it, he's
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  Speaker 4: going to have coverage, he's going to have pressure. The
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  Speaker 4: police are going to continue helping looking for him. Remember,
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  Speaker 4: he's innocent. He's done nothing wrong here with no evidence
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  Speaker 4: against him. So he is out there trying to help
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  Speaker 4: find his wife.
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  Speaker 1: No, he's not Look at this. I want you to
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  Speaker 1: look at him. Look at him. Flanked by his defense
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  Speaker 1: lawyer sitting in front of a mic and a camera.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not seeing him. Can I see him the video? Wee?
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  Speaker 2: There you go.
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  Speaker 1: He doesn't look like he's looking to me, Randolph Rice,
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  Speaker 1: you said a combination of asking for help and keeping
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: this in the news. Trust me, Randolph, it's in the
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  Speaker 1: news and in.
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  Speaker 2: Everything he says.
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  Speaker 1: I don't hear him say anything about help me find Lynette,
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  Speaker 1: help me.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't hear that. Did you hear that?
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  Speaker 4: Well? I think that that's probably something he's assuming that
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  Speaker 4: they're going to help continue look for him. He wants
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  Speaker 4: the authorities to have that pressure on them. So they're
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  Speaker 4: out there with those rescue boats. They're out there looking
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  Speaker 4: for him, and possibly anybody else is willing to come
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  Speaker 4: down and help.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're looking. He's not.
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  Speaker 4: I think he's going. You know what, he's doing this
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  Speaker 4: interview now. And that's what I would tell him, is
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  Speaker 4: if I was his lawyer, and I'd say, after this,
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  Speaker 4: guess what, you're back out there on a boat, you're
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  Speaker 4: looking for your wife, and you come back and you
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  Speaker 4: can do another interview because we're going to keep the pressure.
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  Speaker 1: So, Randolph, Rice, you think his lawyer has to tell
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  Speaker 1: him to go look, hey, you better go look for
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  Speaker 1: her and make sure everybody sees you.
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  Speaker 2: Is that? Did you just say that?
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  Speaker 4: I mean, oftentimes these victims are not thinking clearly, and
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  Speaker 4: it's good that he has a lawyer they're helping him.
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  Speaker 4: But I certainly think in his mind, based on what
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  Speaker 4: audio we've heard up to this point, that he probably
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  Speaker 4: is just as concerned as anybody else that he's out
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  Speaker 4: there wanting to look for her and find her.
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  Speaker 1: All I know is when my son went missing in
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  Speaker 1: a baby's or us, I did not sit down and
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  Speaker 1: start giving an interview. I screamed, bloody murder, picked up
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  Speaker 1: my daughter like she was a football, and started running
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  Speaker 1: like a linebacker.
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  Speaker 2: That's what I did.
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  Speaker 1: But you know what, that's just me. Let's hear what
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  Speaker 1: else Brian Hooker has to say up on his release
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  Speaker 1: from custody and.
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  Speaker 7: More like I've heard about it.
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  Speaker 8: I have not looked at the news or any social
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  Speaker 8: media since well since the day before the accent. I
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  Speaker 8: don't want to take a chance that anything could interfere
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  Speaker 8: with the search as it already kind of has without
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  Speaker 8: there's no point being at any of it.
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  Speaker 1: I don't from our friends at CBS and NBC. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I also find it curious to you Vanessa Waltz joining us.
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  Speaker 1: Vanessa is the star of Unmaster True Crime. He went
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  Speaker 1: on to say, I have never hurt her, I would
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  Speaker 1: not hurt her, but in fact that's not what their
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  Speaker 1: daughter says.
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  Speaker 7: I thought that was really odd that he would even
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  Speaker 7: go there, especially with his attorney advising him, because we
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  Speaker 7: did hear yesterday also that Lynette's daughter said that the
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  Speaker 7: US Coast Guard had obtained the past alleged dB information
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  Speaker 7: and records and had forged them on to the behavior authorities.
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  Speaker 7: So I do think it will be difficult for him
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  Speaker 7: to continue with this kind of defense moving forward, since
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  Speaker 7: there are quite a few people, not just Lynette's daughter,
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  Speaker 7: couple family members and friends that can kind of corroborate
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  Speaker 7: that and have text messages and have had conversations with
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  Speaker 7: Ferment about that moving forward. I thought that was strange
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  Speaker 7: that he even went into that topic.
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  Speaker 1: So back to you, Randolph Rice, former prosecutor of criminal
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  Speaker 1: defense attorney, civil lawyer at Rice Law in Baltimore. Never
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  Speaker 1: lack of business there, Randolph. See when you say things
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  Speaker 1: like I've never hurt her, I would never hurt her,
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  Speaker 1: and then I've got all these DV domestic violence alleged
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  Speaker 1: incidents in the past.
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  Speaker 2: She even, as you heard the neighbors.
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  Speaker 1: Say, moved out on him multiple times because of domestic
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  Speaker 1: violence accusations.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so let's address the first thing here is that
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  Speaker 4: anytime we put witnesses on the stand, and you can
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  Speaker 4: look at any trial in America, we asked the defendant
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  Speaker 4: the first time, would you ever hurt this person?
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  Speaker 5: No?
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  Speaker 4: Would you ever cause them harm?
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  Speaker 1: No?
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  Speaker 4: These are natural and obvious questions, because if we don't
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  Speaker 4: ask them, and if he doesn't say these things, then
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  Speaker 4: you have us a guess, a suspicion that maybe he did.
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  Speaker 4: So he's putting it out there. I never would hurt her,
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  Speaker 4: I would never cause harm. The DV allegations are that
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  Speaker 4: exactly allegations. These are coming also from a step daughter
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  Speaker 4: who possibly might have had some sort of axe to
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  Speaker 4: grind against her stepfather, mister Hooker. So I take them
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  Speaker 4: with a grain of salt as to what she's saying
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  Speaker 4: what was going on in the past. And lastly, Nancy,
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  Speaker 4: if we had to say that everybody that had a
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  Speaker 4: domestic issue in the past was ultimately going to kill
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  Speaker 4: their partner, then we'd have half this country dead. So
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  Speaker 4: it just doesn't make sense to rely on that past information.
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  Speaker 2: Do you always do that? Why do you always do that?
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  Speaker 1: I remember it In the Scott Peterson case, Mark Gerreges,
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  Speaker 1: great lawyer, says, just because he's a philanderer doesn't mean
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  Speaker 1: he's a killer. Every guy in America that cheats doesn't
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  Speaker 1: kill their wife. Okay, granted, but.
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  Speaker 2: Reverse that. Reverse that.
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  Speaker 1: Many times has there been domestic homicide where prior to
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  Speaker 1: the murder there was abuse? Practically every time? So again
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  Speaker 1: I hate to keep asking you this, Randolph Rice, but
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  Speaker 1: do I look like I just fell off the turnip truck.
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  Speaker 1: Don't try that with me, please. The fact that there
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  Speaker 1: was domestic abuse doesn't mean he killed her. Reverse that
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  Speaker 1: will be a few moments to think about that.
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  Speaker 4: What you're reversing it to your benefit to argue that
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  Speaker 4: mister Hooker is somehow criminally responsible for this. If you
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  Speaker 4: look at it the other way, it doesn't make sense.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, okay to you. All I know is there in
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  Speaker 2: a boat he lives. She doesn't. Interesting.
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  Speaker 1: Now you brought up the daughter and suggests that she
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  Speaker 1: has some acts to grind in the search for her mother. Well,
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  Speaker 1: let's listen to her, and I want you, you, Randolph Rice,
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  Speaker 1: to weigh her credibility.
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  Speaker 9: As she speaks, We're pretty distraught that this is even happening.
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  Speaker 9: I'm still in shock, like it's just surreal. He said
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  Speaker 9: that my mom's missing, and that she fell out of
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  Speaker 9: the boat, and that he threw a life jacket to
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  Speaker 9: her or something, and he doesn't know if she got
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  Speaker 9: it or not. Then he paddled the shore and then
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  Speaker 9: he called for help. I was just sitting there in
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  Speaker 9: shock because I couldn't imagine this actually happening to her.
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  Speaker 9: I just hope we find her. I don't want to
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  Speaker 9: go forever, just not ever finding her again.
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  Speaker 1: From our friends at NBC in thirteen years now, it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't look to me that she's got an axe to grind.
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  Speaker 1: It looks like she's distraught over her mother.
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  Speaker 4: Well, that's not the clips that we're ultimately going to
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  Speaker 4: probably hear her saying bad things about mister Hooker, because
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  Speaker 4: right there she does sound like she's sympathetic. She wants
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  Speaker 4: to find her mom. That is all true, and I'm
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  Speaker 4: sure that's what she believes in her heart, But at
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  Speaker 4: the end of the day, she also thinks that mister
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  Speaker 4: Hooker is the one who did this, and the story
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  Speaker 4: makes sense that he tells that this is an accident.
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  Speaker 4: There's nothing in the story that he has told and
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  Speaker 4: none of the facts that point to him having some
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  Speaker 4: criminal responsibility in this whole thing.
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  Speaker 9: I haven't heard anything. I've tried to contact the police
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  Speaker 9: down there and I didn't get an answer. The longer
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  Speaker 9: it's been, the more doubt I have that she's still there.
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  Speaker 9: For one, I don't understand how she got the key.
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  Speaker 9: Brian's always driving, so he basically is in charge of
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  Speaker 9: the key. So the fact that my mom had it
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  Speaker 9: doesn't make any sense. It just doesn't add up why
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  Speaker 9: she was swimming away from the boat or why she
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  Speaker 9: had the keys. I have known passed issues between them
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  Speaker 9: have not been good. From what I've heard from my grandma,
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  Speaker 9: their relationship has been a lot of fighting and drinking lately.
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  Speaker 9: So I'm just kind of questioning what actually went out
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  Speaker 9: and the dinghy and.
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  Speaker 1: More from Curly Elsworth.
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  Speaker 2: This is Lynette's daughter.
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  Speaker 5: There's history of him choking her out and threatening the
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  Speaker 5: thrower overboard, so the fact that this is actually happening
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  Speaker 5: makes me believe there's more to the story. I've seen
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  Speaker 5: him choke out one of his daughters before and we
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  Speaker 5: had to go to court for that. And I was
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  Speaker 5: only in third grade. So he's just repeating.
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  Speaker 1: Patterns from NBC thirteen News, now, CBS and Fox. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know how you get away from her memory
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  Speaker 1: memories dating all the way back to the third grade
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  Speaker 1: and this in start start comparison to him stating I
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  Speaker 1: would never hurt her. Well, according to the daughter, this
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  Speaker 1: has been going on since she's in the third grade.
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  Speaker 2: She looks to be in her twenties now.
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  Speaker 1: Straight out to Vanessa also joining us a startup Unmasked
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: True Crime podcast.
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  Speaker 2: We are learning more from the friend who recorded him.
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  Speaker 2: What more do we know?
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  Speaker 7: Well, I talked to them yesterday and there were a
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  Speaker 7: few things they have. A lot of them have started
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  Speaker 7: their own searches on the ground in the Bahamas. But
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  Speaker 7: one thing that they were wanted to kind of communicate
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  Speaker 7: to me was that they're also very frustrated because they
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  Speaker 7: are they don't really know what they're looking for. They
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  Speaker 7: don't have a great description of what Lynette was even
• 12:34
  Speaker 7: wearing at the time when she went missing. I mean,
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  Speaker 7: we know from reports that she was wearing a black
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: bathing suit. But you know, after they went to Tahiti Beach,
• 12:44
  Speaker 7: you know, Brian says that they went to dinner at
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: Abaco Inn. So her friends mentioned that she would be
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  Speaker 7: wearing a jacket or shoes or maybe was she wearing
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  Speaker 7: a hat, and a lot of the video she's wearing
• 12:54
  Speaker 7: a blue windbreaker. And they really were concerned that a
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  Speaker 7: lot of the details coming out have been from Brian
• 13:01
  Speaker 7: have been about Brian kind of selling his story or
• 13:04
  Speaker 7: putting out his story, and not really any details to
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  Speaker 7: help find Lynnette.
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  Speaker 1: I'm curious, Vanessa Walch, has video been obtained from the
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  Speaker 1: restaurant to confirm to Corrobrate they were even there.
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  Speaker 7: No one I've talked to, None of their friends that
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  Speaker 7: I've spoken to, are able to verify that yet. I
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  Speaker 7: know that the restaurant has been very quiet about this
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: and they will not release any information. They said that
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  Speaker 7: they've only released it to the authorities and they're not
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: going to comment on it. So I don't think at
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: this time we're even able to verify that they were
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: at dinner at the Obaco End that night.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I also noticed Vanessa that he stated he
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  Speaker 1: quote won't go into the facts too deeply.
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  Speaker 2: Why not?
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I wasn't too too surprised about that.
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  Speaker 7: I figure that his lawyer is now trying to do
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  Speaker 7: a little bit of damage control because of audio link
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: and because of the texts that have been put out.
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  Speaker 7: But on the flip side of that, you know, right
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  Speaker 7: when he started that interview, one of the interviews I
• 14:08
  Speaker 7: listened to, you know, they said, is there anything that
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: you can tell us to help us find Lynette? And
• 14:12
  Speaker 7: he almost immediately said no, that he didn't want to
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  Speaker 7: interfere with her search. And that statement made no sense
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  Speaker 7: to me. How would giving out more information that would
• 14:21
  Speaker 7: help find Lynette interfere with the search. I took that
• 14:24
  Speaker 7: a different way when he said that, I felt he
• 14:27
  Speaker 7: was more concerned with it, you know, locking him into
• 14:30
  Speaker 7: something for the criminal investigation.
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  Speaker 1: Joining us tonight a special guest, Ben Dobrin. He is
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: renowned boat captain with a fifty ton master's license, Emergency
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: response diving instructor, instructor, training police diver, emergency services diver.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It goes on, needless to say, he knows what a
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: boat captain should do. Being thank you for being with us,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear what Lynette Hooker's husband has
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: to say about the night she falls overboard.
• 15:01
  Speaker 10: She basically just bounced off the dinghy in the middle.
• 15:04
  Speaker 7: Of a little blow like twenty some not.
• 15:07
  Speaker 10: Winds that popped up and on a record half mile
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  Speaker 10: maybe tripped back to the dinghy and angle thing bailed.
• 15:17
  Speaker 10: Uh every single thing. We weren't wearing Micacke's.
• 15:24
  Speaker 7: If she.
• 15:26
  Speaker 10: It was sundown and the sun set like basically ten
• 15:30
  Speaker 10: minutes after she fell over. Dingy k over with her
• 15:35
  Speaker 10: because it wasn't clipped to anything or anybody, and she
• 15:38
  Speaker 10: had the spare dingey key in her dry bag which
• 15:41
  Speaker 10: was with her. Yeah, it was inflated. I mean inflated
• 15:46
  Speaker 10: because it was folded. But the wind blew us apart
• 15:50
  Speaker 10: so fast that I think I think she tried to
• 15:53
  Speaker 10: swim back to the sailboat, to her back to our sailboat,
• 15:56
  Speaker 10: which was probably I don't know the yards or something,
• 16:02
  Speaker 10: but the ways for three foot and I was trying
• 16:06
  Speaker 10: to ship the oars and one of the pends on
• 16:08
  Speaker 10: the horse broken up, dropped over the side, and I
• 16:12
  Speaker 10: was yelling for her the whole time, and I yelled
• 16:15
  Speaker 10: to her as I lost the or, and I threw
• 16:17
  Speaker 10: the anchor out and anchored the dinghy and es yeah,
• 16:23
  Speaker 10: I yelled, I couldn't see her anymore. It was it
• 16:27
  Speaker 10: was the mood has not.
• 16:28
  Speaker 11: Raisen yet, Ben Dobron, Boat captain, you're hearing a recorded
• 16:35
  Speaker 11: phone call the husband made to a friend, and the friend.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Got so concerned he contacted our friend Vanessa Waltz, star
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: of unmastered True Crime, and sent it in. So, Ben Dobron,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: it seems like a lot coincidentally went wrong, and the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: boat captain obviously did not respond as he should have
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: way in.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. First of all, that dinghy is an eight foot dinghy.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: If he's saying that's in three foot seas with twenty
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: nine wins, that's small craft advisories. That boat had no
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: business being on the water none whatsoever. Three foot seas
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: would be taking water over the sides that did not
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: have a three foot freeboard via the top of a
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: boat was less than three feet off the water, so
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: if it was three foot seas, they would be getting
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: beat all sorts of ways. That boat should not have
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: been out there in three foot seas if it was.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: If they were trying to get back to their sailboat,
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: because that's where they were sleeping. That night and they
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: were trying to just tough it out and get back
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: to the sailboat. They would be absolute idiots not to
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: be wearing their PFDs. He said, they didn't have their
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: life jackets on. But in an eight foot boat and
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: three foot seas, any normal person's putting their life jacket
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: on because those conditions are way beyond the safe conditions
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: for that boat. So I wouldn't have been out in
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: an eight foot dingy in three foot seas, but if
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: I were for some reason, if I had to go out,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: definitely be wearing a pf D, especially as the sun
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: was setting first. And the little motor on that boat,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: that's not a powerful little motor to get through through
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: the seas that he's describing. So it just sounds like
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: a horrible situation. That was a bunch of bad decisions,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: one after another after another. And one of the things
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: he's been on the sea for a while, he's been
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: on the ocean. He's a sailboat captain. One of the
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: things that you immediately do if you have a person
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: overboard that the term is man overboard, but I'm you
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: know it's person overboard. You know, is you throw your
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: type four throwable. You throw your life ring, you throw
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: your cushion, whatever sort of You have to have another
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: other than the lighte jackets. You have to have a
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: throwable device also, whether it is a seat cushion or
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: a ring. That's the first thing you do when you
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: have a person overboard is throw that ring. So it
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: is a very close proximity to where that person is,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: and it sounds like he's just the whole thing. Sounds
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: like a perfect storm of failures. I mean, if you
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: believe his story going out in that little bit, in
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: those sea conditions, right as the sun was setting, it
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: sounds awful. It's a disaster. It's a recipe for disaster.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Well, Ben Dobrin, I want you to hear another fact
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: from Vanessa Watsh to start of Unmasked True Crime.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: The map the.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Photos, it's not really a photo, it's a map, a
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: graphic of where the dinghy went out, and according to
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that map that the water was only seven feet deep.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Is that right, Vanessa?
• 19:30
  Speaker 7: Yes, that is. And I've heard many reports since Intive
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: just how shallow this water was.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I don't understand, Ben Dobran.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Of course I'm not a boat captain like you are,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: but I've dived all over the world. How you can
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: get three foot waves that just spring up? You didn't
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: see them when you were getting into the dinghy in
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: seven feet of water.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's if it's only seven feet of water, you're
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: gonna have to have some very serious wind condition to
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: get three feet chop in seven feet of water. You're
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: absolutely correct. And if he's in seven feet of water,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: he's required to have an anchor. And you know, if
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: he's done one hundred feet of water, he's not gonna
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: have enough line to get an anchor down and tied
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: it off to the boat in a little bit like that.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: But seven feet of water, he could have anchored and
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: not been blown away very quickly. And then you know,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: he said she was swimming back to the sailboat. They're
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: still he said, they're getting blown apart. One of the
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: things he said is they're getting blown in different directions.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: They'd be blown in the same direction unless there was
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: a special wind that went after his dinghy and a
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: different wind went after her.
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: The current in the wind.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Would be blowing them both in the same direction. So
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: I just don't understand how they'd be blown apart.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray Scott Rousse is joining US
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: body language behavioral analyst trains lawn for and military interrogators.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: He's the author of.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Understanding Body Language and you can find him on YouTube
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: with his channel behavior X Scott. Thank you for being
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: with us. I'm very curious about your take on mister
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Hooker's behavior.
• 21:21
  Speaker 6: We're seeing the classic moves and structures of someone that
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: we use to train law enforcement with. I mean, there
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: are examples I'm going to pull out of this to
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: use if he's found guilty, and to use to train
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: law enforcement. There are so many things in here that
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: are red flags that from a body language and behavior perspective,
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: it's bizarre that they let him go.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: I can't believe that this.
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: Guy loose already. Maybe they don't have enough in that
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: country or where they are to be able to hold him.
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: But I can't walk.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: You mean you say there are a lot of red flags,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of indicators.
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: What indicators he's when he's talking about her, he doesn't
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: it's all about him. I don't have a wife. Those
• 22:08
  Speaker 6: kind of things. He doesn't say, Look, please help me
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: find my wife. I need some help find my wife.
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: His statements are all are all almost in third person
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: as he's talking about this, when he says, I won't
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: be able to stop looking that kind of thing, Well,
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: what do you mean you won't be able to stop
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: looking at it? What does that mean? Why don't you
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: ask everybody to help you? Look? I'm gonna go. His
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: story is just is structured so perfectly for what happened.
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: You have the first part where she flipped off the
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: boat or whatever, and then he goes through it section
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: by section, just a little bit by bit, and tells
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: you exactly what happened. When something like that happens to someone,
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: their emotions are so out of control and their brain
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: is so lit up with emotion, and you're and adrenaline,
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: you can't remember what happens. Most of the time, it'll
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: be just a big PLoP of story right there, and
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: you'll get some details, and you have to talk to
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: it. It takes a while to get to walk them through
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: what happened. Apparently this guy's got this thing worked out,
• 23:02
  Speaker 6: just almost sentence by sentence to where everything is perfect
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: for him. This just doesn't look right, and it doesn't
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: feel right. It doesn't sound right. There's nothing in here
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: that looks and sounds right.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: To me.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of him stating I don't have a wife,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that is exactly what he said.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: You're right about that, Listen.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: I don't have a waif.
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: She belongs with me.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: What was the last thing that you remember saying to
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: each other?
• 23:41
  Speaker 8: Without going into a lot of details because of the
• 23:43
  Speaker 8: ongoing investigation, I will never I will always think there
• 23:48
  Speaker 8: was something I could have done differently.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm certainly no behavior analyst, but he went on
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: a flip. That's where our friends at ABC. He was going,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I don't have a wife without going into a lot
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: of details because of the ongoing investigation. That was like
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: somebody flipped a switch. Okay, again, I'm not a behavior analyst,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: but Scott Rouse, that's stunt to high heaven that that's
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: all performative.
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: That's all performative. When when you have an emotion and
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: you have somebody that your wife dies, drowns, that is missing,
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: and you act like that, you go from being sad
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: to like normal and talking normal. That's not right. Humans
• 24:30
  Speaker 6: don't work that way. The brain doesn't work that way.
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: It won't let you do that. When he's when when
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: he asked him about what was the last thing you
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: all said to each other. He didn't answer that question
• 24:39
  Speaker 6: at all. He doesn't even get near it. It has
• 24:42
  Speaker 6: His answer has nothing to do with that question whatsoever,
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: not even a little bit. So this whole thing is
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: so the answer. The answer should be, oh yeah, he
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: would make up. I told we would talk about how
• 24:54
  Speaker 6: much we loved each other something, but there's nothing there.
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: He doesn't get near that. And the going back to
• 25:00
  Speaker 6: what you said about the part about he can't talk
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: about it because of the ongoing investigation, what is he
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: talking about? He just talked about everything. Everything we've heard
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: him do is talk about every bit of the investigation.
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: He's staying away from the things that are personal between
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: him and his wife. So that doesn't sound right either.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he said, but I do know this.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: He's being elusive and he's not answering the question. As
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: a matter of fact, let's play that one more time.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: I don't have a wife.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: She belongs to me.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: What was the last thing that you remember saying to
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: each other?
• 25:45
  Speaker 8: Without going into a lot of details because of the
• 25:48
  Speaker 8: ongoing investigation, I will never I will always think there
• 25:53
  Speaker 8: was something I could have done.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Differently from our friends at ABC. Okay, Vanessa Walt joining
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: US star of Unmastery Crime. Did you see what I
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: just saw? Or am I misinterpreting?
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: Yes? And again I'm no behavioral analyst either. But the
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: one thing I did notice immediately watching those interviews is
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: during the emotional parts which he does during a couple
• 26:18
  Speaker 7: of interviews, who begins to cry. He does some facial expressions,
• 26:23
  Speaker 7: he takes his glasses off and rubs his eyes. But
• 26:25
  Speaker 7: I didn't see any tears, and I watched it back
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: many times. It almost even seems like he coughs to
• 26:30
  Speaker 7: kind of make it sound like he's crying at one point,
• 26:33
  Speaker 7: And there just seems to be a big disconnect there
• 26:37
  Speaker 7: between the severity of what happened and how Brian is
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: communicating it.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Back to Randolph Rice joining US defense attorney and civil
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: lawyer at Rice's Law, we all know, all the legal
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: legals know how it works here in the US. Once
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you are arrested, you are then told after a certain
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: number of hours what your charges are, and then you
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: may stay behind bars until your trial unless you can
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: make bond. Here, they completely cut him loose. They stay
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that he's still a suspect and they may re arrest him.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It sounds like the Natalie Holloway debacle all over again.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that Randolph when authorities in Aruba would
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: hold the judge's son you're in Vanderslout for a few days,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: then let him go, then bring him back, then let
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: him go. Ultimately he left the jurisdiction for the Netherlands
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: and never came back.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: That's how that worked out. So how is it working
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: in the Bahamas.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: Well, the process seems to be that they don't really
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: even need probable cause. And in the United States, for
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: the police department to arrest you, they need a probable
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: cause to say we have enough facts that we believe
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: that you're the person that committed this crime. Therefore we're
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: going to go and arrest you. We're going to take
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: you before a judge, and judge is going to determine
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: if they're going to hold you or let you go,
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: and then you get a trial day set and you
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: go to here. It just seems like, hey, we're just
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: going to pick up anybody. Mister Hooker seems to be
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: the first guy that we can grab because he's the
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: last one in Caesar. Maybe we'll put a little pressure
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: on him. See what he says see what he cracks,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: maybe we'll get our probable cause there. But then thank god,
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: they have some laws that say, hey, you got to
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: release it within a certain period of time, and maybe
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: ultimately did that. If they thought they had enough evidence
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: against him, they would have held him. They clearly know
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: they don't have enough evidence to charge him, and so
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: that's why he's.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: From right now, Randolph Rice, you know what's going on.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: This is a no body, no case scenario. That's what's happening.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And I believe the Bahamas police don't have the same
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: experience that we have here in the US. Just like
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: with Natalie Holloway, they never found her body ever, so
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: they never had a case. Even if they had one,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know they would have gone forward with it.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: But they never prosecuted him because they didn't have a body.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: He got rid of the body. He later confessed to
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: that many times over. So they are simply not equipped
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: in that jurisdiction to handle a no body homicide.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and this might be the first time I'll agree
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: with you this today on this topic, because you're right,
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: this seems to be a slapshot investigation. But that still
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean because you don't have the right type of
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: prosecution skills or investigative skills that you get to just
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: grab anybody, arrest them, and prosecute them. Moreover, prosecutors and
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: police departments in the United States at least charge people
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: with murder all the time when they don't have a
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: body because there's other evidence out there, and in this case,
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: there's no other evidence, so therefore there's no charges for
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: mister Hooker.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Gray.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Back to Vanessa.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Vanessa, it seems to me that the local authorities are
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: just twiddling their thumbs and wishing and praying that one
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: day her body will just wash ashore and then they
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: will rely on extradition laws to hopefully get him back
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: in the jurisdiction.
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I am hoping
• 30:25
  Speaker 7: that at the same time, they're also waiting on additional
• 30:28
  Speaker 7: evidence like cell phone records, you know, GPS data, her
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: Apple Watch records, and maybe those are the types of
• 30:36
  Speaker 7: records that take a little bit longer to obtain. So
• 30:40
  Speaker 7: there's part of me just hoping that we're waiting on
• 30:42
  Speaker 7: a lot of the digital evidence.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: In the meantime, do you know she was wearing an
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Apple Watch.
• 30:51
  Speaker 7: We don't know, And when I talked to her friends yesterday,
• 30:54
  Speaker 7: they weren't sure about that either. She normally does wear
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: the Apple Watch, they said, religiously, but it could be.
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: I mean, they could always make the case that that
• 31:02
  Speaker 7: day she was charging it and didn't have it on,
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: So we're not sure, but they did make the point
• 31:07
  Speaker 7: that she normally does always wear it.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Did you notice, Vanessa, that he is lawyer, his criminal
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: defense attorney cut the interview and would not let him
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: get into various aspects of the investigation.
• 31:23
  Speaker 7: I did, And again, maybe it's because I've been so
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: focused on going through the audio. I thought that that
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: was probably some damage control. I'm sure she's going to
• 31:33
  Speaker 7: have to get a hold of all of these things
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: that he's told all of his friends via the audio.
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: We had text messages. There's a lot that she's going
• 31:40
  Speaker 7: to have to get a hold of and review. And
• 31:43
  Speaker 7: I think that she's worried about getting control of that,
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: so she doesn't want any more statements out there that
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: could possibly conflict with what's already been leaked to the media.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Well, Randolph Rice, why would his story change, Why would
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: his statements be inconsistent with prior statements he's made. What's
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: the problem. When you're telling the truth, the truth doesn't change.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: You might embellish it. You may have more facts that
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: you recall or state under the right questioning, but your
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: story shouldn't change. So I don't understand the problem.
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: As Mark Twain said, when you're telling the truth, you
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: don't have to remember anything, and I think that's the
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: situation here. He's telling the truth, so he doesn't have
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: to remember anything, and his lawyer shouldn't be worried either.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: Now I understand that she wants to try to keep
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: somewhat of a story together, so it's not getting just
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: blown out of proportion. But again, I think it's smart
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: that he's saying these things. And there are other possibilities here.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, we've got situations, or at least facts that
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: she took this key, she took this go bag. Maybe
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: she actually got off of this boat herself, and he
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: might have just said, oh the heck with it, and
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: then realized, oh, wow, she's actually floating away.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: What what did you just say?
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I want to look at your face when you say it.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: It's odd to me that that key was taken and
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: that a go bag was taken Nancy, I've been boating
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: for twenty years. A go bag floats. A go bag
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: is what keeps you above the water. So if she
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: took that go bag and she took that key, maybe
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: this was a drunken argument. She said I've had enough
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: with you tonight, and she said I'm getting off this
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: boat and I'm going back to our yacht. So there's
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: that possibility again that maybe she's alive and she doesn't
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: want to be found.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Randolph, you're stating she jumped off the boat
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: in three foot swells on her own.
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: There have been reports from individuals to say that if
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: anybody falls off of boats and they ultimately get washed
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: up in this area, that's what's so confusing is why
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: has she not been found at this point? And that
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: begs the real question of maybe she doesn't want to
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: get found. Maybe she decided I'm done, I'm mad at you.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: I'm taking this key. You're stuck out here on this
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: boat with no key. I'm taking the go bag that floats,
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: and I'm out of here. And that's why we haven't
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: found her yet.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Let me switch gears for Randolph Rice's theory that Lynette
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: chose to jump off the Dingy in three foot swells
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: and moved to something that may be probative.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Back to Vanessa.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Vanessa, there are reports that Lynette's phone, her Apple Watch
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: was found on the boat yes When.
• 34:20
  Speaker 7: I spoke to her Frenzy yesterday, they also were under
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: the impression that the Apple Watch was found on the boat.
• 34:29
  Speaker 7: That makes sense because it would have to be operable.
• 34:31
  Speaker 7: They knew it was Lynnette's and she did reportedly wear
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: that watch every day, but they brought up the point
• 34:38
  Speaker 7: that maybe she had left it behind on the boat
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: for whatever reason that day. Maybe she was charging it.
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: They don't really know, but that is a lot of
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: people are looking forward to seeing what that data has
• 34:49
  Speaker 7: when they're able to obtain it.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Guys joining us tonight an all star panel to make
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: sense of what we are learning. For now, Hooker has
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: walked free. I'm not quite sure whether he would be
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: allowed to leave the Bahamas. Randolph riif could he leave,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: if he chose, if he chooses to.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: He could He could absolutely get on his boat, get
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: on a plane and fly out right now, unless they's
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: taken his passport, which I have not heard reporting that
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: they have. But if he has his passport, he can leave.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: There are treaties though between the United States and the
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Bahamas that they could extradite him back to the Bahamas
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: if they needed to.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Well, if he's taking off in a plane, who's to
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: say if he's coming home to the US. How about
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: if he went somewhere like Vietnam where there is no
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: extradition treaty thoughts.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: He could, he could absolutely do that. But Nancy, the
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: fact that he's staying there right now, that's the actions
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: of an innocent man. If he thought he was guilty
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: in the middle of the night, he would get on
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: that plane to Vietnam. But because he wants to find
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: his wife, because he's innocent, he's staying on that island
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: and he's looking for her, and he's going to find her.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Looking for her, Vanessa.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Is there any evidence at all that he is out
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: looking for his wife.
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: No.
• 36:09
  Speaker 7: And one of the things that I thought was interesting
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: that kind of brought up a timeline question for me
• 36:14
  Speaker 7: is during that interview when he did say that, his
• 36:17
  Speaker 7: exact wording was that he wants to go look and
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: he won't be able to stop. However, she went missing
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: or she was reported missing on the fifth, he wasn't
• 36:27
  Speaker 7: arrested until the eighth, and I'll even give him on
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: the eighth that he was being questioned by authorities most
• 36:32
  Speaker 7: of the day, but he still had three critical a
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: three day critical window where he was able to search
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: for her. But the audio that was released was recorded
• 36:43
  Speaker 7: on the sixth, and we've seen plenty of other text
• 36:45
  Speaker 7: messages between he and his friends, So to me, it
• 36:48
  Speaker 7: seems like he was much more interested in kind of
• 36:51
  Speaker 7: putting out his narrative and building his story with everyone
• 36:55
  Speaker 7: that he knows and his friends, and he was actually
• 36:58
  Speaker 7: going out and looking for Lynette.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: So three days passed with no search efforts by him
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the husband.
• 37:04
  Speaker 7: Not that we're aware of, and from what we see
• 37:07
  Speaker 7: from friends, he was basically just speaking to friends about
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: what happened and giving all of those details out that
• 37:13
  Speaker 7: we heard in the audio and have seen on all
• 37:14
  Speaker 7: these text messages.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Hooker is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: of law, should that day ever come. If you know
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: or think you know anything about Lynette's disappearance, please dial
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: two four two three hundred eight four seven seven two
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: four two three hundred eight four seven seven Tonight we
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: remember an American hero Sergeant William Jackson, Winchester p D,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Kentucky passed away in the line of duty, leaving behind
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: his wife turned widow, Jeanie American Hero. Sergeant William Jackson
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, signing off goodbye.