Latest / Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD / 319: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: The Neurotoxic Loop: Why Your Brain Must Feel Safe Before Your Body Can Detox with Dr. Jaban Moore

Transcript

319: Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill: The Neurotoxic Loop: Why Your Brain Must Feel Safe Before Your Body Can Detox with Dr. Jaban Moore · Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD

• 0:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Welcome to Resiliency Radio, your go to podcast for the most cutting edge insights integrative and functional medicine.
• 0:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm your host, Dr. Jill and with each episode we dive into the heart of healing and personal transformation.
• 0:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Join me as I interview world experts, medical leaders, innovators of all types bringing you great information, new insights and wisdom to help you on your journey from optimal performance and healing.
• 0:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: No matter where you are, if you're suffering from a complex chronic disease or you're doing great and want to do even better as we age, you can join me and listen to experts expound on all the tips and tricks.
• 0:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And of course I'll share my own things as well on the journey.
• 0:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So thanks for joining us again for another episode today.
• 0:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You will not want to miss Dr. Moore.
• 0:47
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'll introduce him in just a moment, but we're going to be diving deep into the neuroinflammation, the trauma response and the immune dysfunction that we see around tick borne illnesses, about around mold and around parasites and even long Covid, which has just come about the last half decade or so.
• 1:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So you'll want to stay tuned if you have any sort of complex chronic illness or someone you know.
• 1:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Today's information will be life changing, I promise.
• 1:13
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Now if you haven't been around that long, I don't know if you know yet, but we have a book, Unexpected.
• 1:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You can find that at any bookstore, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, anywhere books are sold.
• 1:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you want a signed copy of Unexpected Finding Resilience Through Functional Medicine, Science, Faith, you can get that@doctor Jill health.com just put in the notes when you check out who you want it endorsed to and I will personally sign a copy and send it out to you.
• 1:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Speaking of, if you're looking for great products and services, especially some of my beauty products, you can find them all@doctor Jill health.com all kinds of products and services like our Epstein Bar Bundle, our Detox Kit, our Sibo SIFO protocol, and many other things for your gut, for your brain, for your heart, or you name it.
• 2:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You can find them there@drjillhealth.com you can always find free content on my website, podcast, blogs and many other resources@jillcarnahan.com and just in case you didn't know, we are accepting new patients at Flatiron Functional Medicine.
• 2:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So if you're looking for someone to help you navigate this complex chronic disease world or some unexplained symptoms, just give us a call.
• 2:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: 303-993-7910 And you can schedule with one of my mid level providers, Hannah or Fawn, who I super on all cases.
• 2:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Or you can just get more information about the clinic.
• 2:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Okay, let me introduce our guest today.
• 2:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Our guest is Dr. Jabon Moore.
• 2:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: He's a nationally recognized expert in root cause medicine and founder of Redefining Wellness Center.
• 2:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: After overcoming his own battle with Lyme disease and mold toxicity, which you'll hear about today, he committed his life to helping others break free from chronic symptoms that conventional care overlooks.
• 2:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Sound familiar?
• 2:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: With over a decade of clinical experience and 10,000 clients served, he's become a trusted voice in the gut brain health space known for cutting edge science with compassion and clarity.
• 3:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And let's join him as we begin the show.
• 3:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Dr. Moore, we have been hanging in the same circles for a very long time and we've recently did an interview.
• 3:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I was on your podcast and it was so fun and I knew that we've been wanting to do this exchange.
• 3:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So I'm so glad you're here.
• 3:21
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And what we realized in the talk is just we have so many alignments in how we view the world and how this complex chronic illness that's exponentially rising among our patients, the lens in which we view it.
• 3:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 3:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So before we jump into that, I think the title of our show is the Trapped Inflammation How Mold, Lyme and co Infections Can Hijack the Brain and Immune System.
• 3:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And we're going to go everywhere.
• 3:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So stay tuned, you're going to want to hear this show.
• 3:45
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But before we do, I always like the human backstory and I want to know a little bit about how you got into what you're doing and how you got interested in this complex chronic scenarios.
• 3:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You know, I, I live the same story that so many of the patients at UNIC live.
• 4:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was a collegiate athlete.
• 4:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was an all American and shot put, discus, hammer, those kinds of throwing events.
• 4:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I graduated from school.
• 4:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I went to go to a professional school.
• 4:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I lost 60 pounds because I was 250 pounds and I lost 60 pounds.
• 4:19
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I got to the point, actually this is a picture when I'm like presenting and teaching doctors that I put up there.
• 4:24
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I had a six pack.
• 4:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I, I felt like I looked really healthy, really good.
• 4:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I felt awful.
• 4:29
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I had erectile dysfunction, I had brain fog, I had joint pain.
• 4:32
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I felt worse looking the best that I ever had.
• 4:37
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And like, I wasn't like so skinny that I was sickly.
• 4:41
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was fit, but I felt horrible.
• 4:43
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So when I'm presenting, I'm like, I was, you know, I go, I was Sick here, and then I'm sick here after I lost the weight.
• 4:49
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And so my journey was, what the heck just happened?
• 4:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was allergic to almonds and dairy and berries and sweet potatoes and chicken.
• 4:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I mean, I was like, I was really struggling, and I did not know why.
• 5:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I had a sore throat for months and months.
• 5:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And eventually, as the weight was off longer, some of the symptoms faded.
• 5:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But I still was dealing with the allergies, the erectile dysfunction, the being a little more tired than I should be.
• 5:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And finally, after a few years, and I was in school, right?
• 5:24
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I was going to functional medicine conferences.
• 5:26
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was talking to medical doctors, naturopaths, chiropractors, health coaches, nutritionists.
• 5:30
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Like, on a weekend basis.
• 5:32
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was getting muscle tested, lab tested, adjusted.
• 5:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I mean, like, I should have been able to be well.
• 5:39
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it took me until I was in third year of school, and.
• 5:44
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I was at a conference, and somebody's like, well, have you thought about Lyme disease?
• 5:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I go, not really, but tell me more.
• 5:50
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And they're like, well, I don't really know anything.
• 5:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And this was back before Instagram and YouTube and podcasts were cool.
• 5:55
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So, like, you couldn't just Google a symptom and then get a list.
• 5:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I went back to that con.
• 6:03
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Or I talked to the guy at the conference, and he said, well, I know this guy up in Wisconsin.
• 6:06
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I drove to Wisconsin from Kansas City, Missouri, and literally, it's a.
• 6:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's one of those stories your grandpa would tell.
• 6:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I'm like, man, I must be getting old.
• 6:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I drove through a blizzard to a small town in Wisconsin, got stuck on the doctor's driveway.
• 6:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: He plowed the driveway with a tractor for me to get to his house.
• 6:22
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Like, it's just a story, right?
• 6:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And he's like, yeah, you have Lyme.
• 6:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And what I didn't realize at the time until I was talking to a mold inspector professionally for a patient.
• 6:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was in college in a dorm.
• 6:38
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Not a dorm room, an apartment that I was rented that had mold six inches up the walls.
• 6:43
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But I was poor.
• 6:44
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I couldn't afford to live somewhere nicer.
• 6:48
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So it just kind of smelled like mold in my place.
• 6:50
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And my girlfriend hated it, but I dealt with it.
• 6:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I was like, oh, that's where the sore throat started.
• 6:58
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's where the fatigue started.
• 7:00
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's where I started getting injuries in college.
• 7:03
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh.
• 7:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I had mold.
• 7:05
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I had Lyme.
• 7:06
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I ended up doing parasite cleanses.
• 7:08
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And the one thing that probably hit me the absolute hardest was I gotten through Lyme, felt Pretty good.
• 7:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Most symptoms are gone.
• 7:16
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I truly never had to detox that much mold because I'd just been out of it so long.
• 7:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I lost all the weight before I didn't know what I didn't know.
• 7:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But when I started trying to detox metals, I would lose my voice every time.
• 7:26
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And doing this kind of job where we talk to patients every day, I. I would lose my voice every time I tried to take a metal binder.
• 7:33
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it taught me a lot about working with people that were sensitive and just kind of understanding physiology as I went through my own journey.
• 7:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow, what a journey.
• 7:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you're right, it's like mine and many of our colleagues, I always say in functional medicine, integrated medicine, many times the journey is someone's kind of pursuing a more conventional route and they hit a roadblock with themselves or someone they love where what they were taught in their training does not give them all the answers.
• 7:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it's so common to hear that story on the show and anywhere anyone that, you know, we talk to.
• 8:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But I love the fact that you're curious enough to say what else is going on, because really, at the core of any of us who are doing this, there's curiosity and there's open mindedness about, you know, maybe there's something else going on.
• 8:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And what you just described is so common.
• 8:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And that's kind of why I want to dive in today is this layering of toxic load plus infectious burden creating immune inflammation and dysfunction right at the core.
• 8:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it's so interesting because that mold gets thrown in there and that weakens immune system.
• 8:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So these dormant infections that you didn't even know about, right?
• 8:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Same with me and same with many of our colleagues start to pop their heads up like whack a mole.
• 8:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then you got infection, you got toxin.
• 8:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And so maybe frame it because what we're dealing with on so many levels of people out there, they just don't feel well and they have no idea why.
• 8:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Or worse yet, they get a diagnosis.
• 8:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I just heard recently a hospice care nurse saying, Jill, you would not believe, all of a sudden I'm getting so many cases of ALS and pancreatic cancer, which pancreatic cancer of all kinds of cancers is very quickly acting and usually does not have a long time when they find it.
• 9:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's very advanced.
• 9:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And her question was, what's going on?
• 9:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Now, those are kind of separate things, but someone might be told they have ALS or Ms. Or just chronic fatigue syndrome.
• 9:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And underlying you and I know there's a lot of other Layers that are contributing to this diagnosis that they give this label to.
• 9:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 9:26
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So let's go to some of those layers and kind of framing you've talked about, kind of the neurotoxic loop and some of these ways in which this all comes together in a milieu.
• 9:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But maybe what's your framework around your experience and then what you see into practice?
• 9:42
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Well, I think, you know, after the podcast you and I did, I just realized that we had.
• 9:45
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We're on such the same page, so I'll just tell everybody I agree with everything you said through the podcast from you've got to make sure the environment is clean, you've got to regulate the nervous system, you've got to get the toxins out of your home, you've got to rest, you've got to have your circadian rhythm, all of that.
• 10:03
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So if you want to hear my opinion of that, go listen to Jill talk.
• 10:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I'm going to just go a little bit further into another way, because we already talked about that.
• 10:13
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So just, you know, it's part two.
• 10:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So the framing that I've come to is that most people in our industry, you have the people, especially today, it's the nervous system people, right?
• 10:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Like, you got to do the limbic work, you got to do the somatic work, you've got to breath work.
• 10:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And agreed, that is a powerful thing.
• 10:30
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Trauma can absolutely cause your body to feel like it is unsafe.
• 10:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So my framework is figuring out safety for the body.
• 10:39
  Dr. Jaban Moore: When you and I talked, you listed out so many different pieces of the puzzle that need to be safe.
• 10:45
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Air, food, water, hygiene, dental implants in the body and all of that safety is necessary because if your body doesn't feel safe, it's running from a bear.
• 10:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You're not worried about pooping or peeing or food or rest when you're running from a bear.
• 11:02
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You're worried about one more step.
• 11:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So you're not also going to detox, you're not going to recover your tissues.
• 11:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And that can be from living in mold or being traumatized as a child.
• 11:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Both can cause the same thing to happen.
• 11:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But when you look at the actual process that happens in your brain, if you live in a moldy house and you take a deep breath and that triggers a danger response at the cellular level.
• 11:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Your mitochondria go into a cell danger response that then tells your cells to.
• 11:37
  Dr. Jaban Moore: To some degree, and I'm simplifying this way too much, but attack everything or die.
• 11:44
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And most of us are in the attack everything.
• 11:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you have mcas, sirs, multiple chemical sensitivities, histamine type reactions.
• 11:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So when you get into that state, your body also releases stress hormones.
• 11:56
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Those stress hormones like cortisol are supposed to pick you up.
• 12:00
  Dr. Jaban Moore: They're supposed to get you strong enough to be able to overcome this thing, run a little faster from the bear or get away from the mold.
• 12:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And if you can't get away then you keep driving more and more of these cortisol, these adrenal hormones which then become toxic in themselves.
• 12:16
  Dr. Jaban Moore: They generate a block of things like estrogen or progesterone.
• 12:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Progesterone goes down quicker, which makes you more histamine, more mast cell, more symptomatic.
• 12:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then as this process continues, your nervous system to get stuck in a fight or flight.
• 12:33
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So now it's almost traumatized, like you might have been as a child from, you know, a bad situation, but traumatized from mold.
• 12:41
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So then that loop keeps circling of cortisol going, more histamine, even if you've left the mold.
• 12:48
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And you can then go to the other side, you can go to the trauma side and just start with.
• 12:54
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Trauma creates cortisol.
• 12:55
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it's the same pattern.
• 12:58
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And that's why the framework that I work within is like, okay, for a really chronic patients or even anybody, it's what is creating a lack of safety.
• 13:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Whether it's an infection, a toxin or a trauma.
• 13:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Is there a loop of inflammatory markers, autoimmune triggers which we can even lead into like the MCAS world that is self perpetuating that we have to work on because we have to realize that.
• 13:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then how do we work our way out of this?
• 13:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Whether that's peptides meds, breath work, whether that's detoxing, cleansing, a home.
• 13:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I'm just gonna stop there because I just said so much.
• 13:38
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I know we want to pull it apart.
• 13:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh my goodness, I love it.
• 13:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Like I said when we talked before, it's like we are just totally aligned and I really liked how you explained that.
• 13:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: One thing I learned when I was researching for my book, and I think we talked about this on the last podcast, was literally that inhalation response into the nose, into the crib form plate actually the chemical can reactivate the HPA axis and trigger a trauma response.
• 14:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you were describing this, but I was shocked.
• 14:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I thought of course, like if your mind is like, oh no, here's mold again in this hotel.
• 14:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you're like oh no.
• 14:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you worry because you know how bad the last experience was, that's One thing that's like a memory of trauma, whatever.
• 14:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And in my mind for many years, I thought that's how mold was.
• 14:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's like, it's very traumatic to go through it.
• 14:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We have this trauma response.
• 14:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But the truth is what you were describing, there's literally a physiological.
• 14:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So like the inhalation of a musty smell can trigger the hp, even if we're like, I know I'll be fine, I've done this before, I can get, I can take binders, I can do this.
• 14:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And that really shifted my understanding because it literally is chemicals, noxious chemicals, VOCs and mold and mycotoxins can literally physiological.
• 14:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Even if you're like, you've done therapy, you're all okay about mold and you know you're going to be okay in the end, there's a physiological response.
• 14:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And that was, to me mind blowing.
• 14:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But also explained why literally 100% of patients that I've treated for mold related illness have to deal with the trauma, even if again, they've had thousands of hours of therapy and work and they're the, you know, top neuropsychologist in the world.
• 15:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We all of us who've been have that piece where the limbic activation which you so eloquently described.
• 15:12
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then on top of that, I always like to differentiate because I've always, in many fields that are looking at the research, there's a lot of animal studies because it's not really ethical to expose humans to mold, right?
• 15:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So the first data that we had, right, with all animal studies and what they showed in the feed of animals, okay, they get a little toxic from like aflatoxins in the soy and corn that they're eating.
• 15:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So then there was this correlation with humans saying, oh, it's just from the food that you eat that your mycotoxins are high.
• 15:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And we know now that's not true because when we ingest mold, the liver first bypass the phase one and phase two will actually decrease the toxicity a little bit because it has to go through the gut and through the blood and through the liver.
• 15:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But if we inhale it literally goes into our alveoli.
• 15:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And these mycotoxins are so small, they're 2.5 microns and smaller.
• 15:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: They go directly into the bloodstream.
• 16:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There is zero filter.
• 16:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And that's why you and I and anyone who's experienced this within seconds of being in a moldy building.
• 16:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We could have cognitive dishes, depression, anxiety, you know, breathing issues, because it's such a rapid Response, it's like direct to the bloodstream, right?
• 16:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Absolutely.
• 16:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And honestly, what you're saying, if I hear that from a patient, like I immediately have a very significant response years after being well and being stabilized.
• 16:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That immediately tells me we haven't done a complete level of work to resolve some of that.
• 16:33
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Like, I want you to get a little post nasal drip.
• 16:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you go to a multi hotel room.
• 16:37
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's normal, that's natural.
• 16:38
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I want you to go, oh man.
• 16:40
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah, I can smell this.
• 16:41
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I don't like this.
• 16:42
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But if you have the migraine or like a shutdown type symptom, or you start going into a dysautonomia response, that immediately tells me that the neural part of your toxic loop is not totally solved out.
• 16:55
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I've gone down a lot of rabbit holes to try and figure out how to help people.
• 16:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I've done procaine IVs, I've done stellate ganglion blocks, I've done Frankenhauser injections, I've gone and done neurofeedback because I'm curious.
• 17:09
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm trying to figure out, like, how do you help people?
• 17:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And after going through all of those different types of supportive treatments alongside of the detox, like, once you've actually done the detox, I've been able to find a lot of people can get to a point where, you know, you don't have to live subconsciously in mold fear, right?
• 17:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Because consciously, like you said, you're like, I should be able tolerate that.
• 17:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Then you go into a place and you're like, my body doesn't want tolerate this.
• 17:34
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's sending off the, you know, it's like, what's the difference?
• 17:38
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Like you know, you have a little fire pit and a tiny little bit of fire gets out and you just step on it and you're like, that didn't stress me out at all.
• 17:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Versus you see a little bit of fire and you think it's like one of those TV shows where all of a sudden it's the whole forest is breathing level of stress.
• 17:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You've got to have the appropriate stress response.
• 17:56
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And if you don't, for me that's a sign.
• 17:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hey guys.
• 17:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Just a quick interruption to the show to remind you that at Flatiron Functional Medicine, my practice near Boulder, Colorado, we are accepting new patients.
• 18:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So many people out there who listen are suffering, or maybe you know someone friend, family member or relative that is suffering from some complex, chronic mysterious illness or fatigue, or you name it, and we are Here to help.
• 18:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You can call 303-993-7910 to get information about our practice or schedule with a provider.
• 18:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you're not sure about it, you can also schedule a 10 minute intro call with one of my mid level providers, Fawn or Hannah just to get to know them and see if it's a good fit.
• 18:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And don't forget all kinds of special curated products and services are available@drjillhealth.com things like my very favorite bio peptide beauty cream.
• 18:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: My total not to leave home without.
• 18:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I take this wherever I go.
• 18:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's my favorite anti aging products on our store Biopeptide beauty cream.
• 18:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And you can find that and so many other things@drjillhealth.com okay, let's get back to our show.
• 19:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Okay, that was so well put.
• 19:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What would you say are the most.
• 19:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You said you've tried all these things, you know that could help that what are the tried and true like the top three things for someone to regulate limbic or vagal kind of responses.
• 19:16
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I broke these apart because you know when you're going through school you have active therapies and you have passive therapies, right?
• 19:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Active means you're doing something actively to teach yourself.
• 19:24
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Like physical therapy, right?
• 19:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So physical therapy of the brain to me is the limbic somatic work because that's actively you doing it.
• 19:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You're doing a daily practice that can include breath work, vagal nerve exercises.
• 19:36
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Primal trust is one of my favorite programs for this.
• 19:39
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I literally call it physical therapy to the brain.
• 19:42
  Dr. Jaban Moore: To my patients.
• 19:42
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm like this is not some woo thing.
• 19:44
  Dr. Jaban Moore: This is not therapy where you're talking about things.
• 19:48
  Dr. Jaban Moore: This is actual exercises you do for your brain to change subconscious patterns.
• 19:54
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Now that is a commitment.
• 19:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's like you tear an acl, you got to go to physical therapy.
• 19:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It could be three, six, nine months of physical therapy to get back to normal.
• 20:02
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So that's not a short term solution.
• 20:05
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Short term solutions, one of them I stumbled onto a by accident.
• 20:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I had a neurofeedback device in my office.
• 20:13
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was taught how to do it.
• 20:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: They had specific cadences that you had to do things at.
• 20:19
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It wasn't what is called true neurofeedback.
• 20:21
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It was more entrainment.
• 20:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So it was like a subclass of neurofeedback.
• 20:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And one of those was alpha theta, which is even below entrainment where it was just simply putting you in that almost asleep.
• 20:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you've ever just laid there and you're like I don't know if I fell asleep, but it felt so good.
• 20:39
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was so relaxed.
• 20:40
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That kind of positioning of your brain waves.
• 20:43
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you can get someone there for 30 minutes twice a day for a week, that's stuck in fight or flight, that's like truly massive, truly reactive, truly.
• 20:54
  Dr. Jaban Moore: They're, they're really uncomfortable in the world right now.
• 20:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: They're listening to us and their shoulders are creeping forward and they're creeping up and they're probably a little uncomfortable because we're calling them out a little bit on some things those individuals do that I've actually had people have some pretty significant like almost hercs like reactions from just light flashing in their eyes.
• 21:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I'm not talking about a seizure, their eyes are closed.
• 21:19
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm talking about non seizure related type things.
• 21:21
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm not talking about some sort of fear response.
• 21:24
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's just like that light is entraining them to relax and their body is in such a fight or flight state that they cannot do it.
• 21:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So by getting them into that state, it really has helped break some of the mast cell.
• 21:39
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I've seen people go from I can't tolerate a homeopathic to 30%, 40% reduction in symptoms of mast cell symptoms.
• 21:48
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's temporary if you don't do the work with it.
• 21:50
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I'd say do the active work.
• 21:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: The passive work is the neurofeedback Stella ganglion works some, you know, it could be 10, 20 reduction.
• 22:00
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's not a magic trick.
• 22:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's an injection of procaine or lidocaine over the vagus nerve, goes through the neck.
• 22:08
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's kind of scary, but it, I did it several times.
• 22:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's not painful.
• 22:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: More than just a, you know, a needle prick.
• 22:16
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's not my go to at the beginning, but I think those are probably some of the top nervous system solutions that I use.
• 22:26
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Not peptide or medication.
• 22:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 22:28
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh good.
• 22:28
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And stay tuned.
• 22:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We will go on to peptide and medication because I know out there you're like, okay, tell us more about peptides.
• 22:33
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right?
• 22:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That's the hot topic.
• 22:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We will.
• 22:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Interesting that you say that because one of my favorite things when I get a little dysautonomic, which again I'm 95 better, but I still get mold exposures and I can tell, okay, I have to is I get on my PEMF mat at the Schumann frequency which is a very alpha and theta kind of state and live 30 minutes.
• 22:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I go into that kind of like almost lucid dream.
• 22:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I Always feel better.
• 22:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it makes.
• 22:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh yeah.
• 22:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's just another way to kind of do that for me.
• 23:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It just like right beside me here is my mat.
• 23:03
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It is my favorite device for me to self regulate that state.
• 23:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It really always helps.
• 23:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It makes sense because it's a similar kind of thing.
• 23:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh, I love it.
• 23:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I've, you know, I can remember when I was doing some of my training and the teacher said, yeah, there's high level CEO type people that come in and they lay on this thing for eight straight hours.
• 23:24
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it just puts them in that zone of relaxation, which is where you actually start being creative.
• 23:30
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So it allows for you to start solving out problems well in your body.
• 23:33
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you're always in fight or flight, you're always stressed out, you're not resting, your body's not allowing for you to go into your hippocampus and process through some of those traumas, whether that's mold toxicity or whatever it is that your body is stressed out about.
• 23:49
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I've had people remember unfortunate things that happen to them.
• 23:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: The memories come back, but they, when they come back, they told me about 92% of the time they don't need therapy for these things because when it comes back in that state, it's just like, oh, now I realize why I was so uncomfortable, why there was this stress, this trauma, and then they release and they go on.
• 24:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I.
• 24:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We'd have therapists if they needed them to work with them.
• 24:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But yeah, it's just incredible the work that you can do by allowing the body to relax and come out of the defense mechanisms.
• 24:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow.
• 24:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love that.
• 24:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And it relates to.
• 24:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I always tell patients journaling and kind of understanding your story is so powerful because there's been studies that show if you a writer or you're just a journaler and you can actually tell the story of something that happened to you, traumatic in a way that makes sense as an adult.
• 24:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That alone is as good as cbt, which is cognitive behavioral therapy and a lot of the somatic therapies as well.
• 24:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's almost like if we can retell our story in a way that, oh, yeah, that was then.
• 24:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I'm no longer in that pattern.
• 24:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I can.
• 24:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So it's neat because you're.
• 24:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You're describing another way to kind of access those memories.
• 25:00
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I always say, like, metabolize them, right?
• 25:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's like metabolizing food and digesting it and then it comes out to the nutrients that we need for our body, which.
• 25:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And if we can understand our story and retell it in a way, just personally for ourselves, writing it, or even to someone else.
• 25:16
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: All of a sudden that understanding gives it a different context and flips the trauma switch.
• 25:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Right, exactly.
• 25:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So you mentioned.
• 25:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Well, first of all, we kind of started with Lyme and mold and parasites and like this whole milieu.
• 25:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And again, you and I know that you kind of have to address all those things.
• 25:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Do you want to talk about maybe your preference for either order of operations or just a little bit of a blip on?
• 25:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Because that's such a common thing that I see as well.
• 25:40
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Where people do have toxin like mold's probably the most common.
• 25:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: They also have co infections like Lyme or mycoplasma or parasites.
• 25:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: How do you order your treatment strategies?
• 25:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I'll just say this, and I know this is kind of the broken record of all of us functional medicine doctors.
• 25:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's like it's gotta be unique to the person.
• 25:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But if I had to pick a common path, it's figure out how to make them actually have an environment that is safe, so whatever would not be causing safety.
• 26:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And one thing that doesn't get touched on enough besides molding a home and food and water and hygiene is your water supply actually clean?
• 26:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I like to tap into that one because it's something that I think I talk about a little more than others.
• 26:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And what I end up doing is I go to an EWG water database, I look up your water supply from the EPA and I say, what's in there?
• 26:32
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Well, in 170 million Americans, there's radioactive elements, uranium, radium, or radon.
• 26:39
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Those elements do not get removed well and consistently by any type of filtration except distillation.
• 26:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's it.
• 26:48
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I just look up your water, I'm like, hey, is it in there?
• 26:51
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If it's a problem, we need to deal with it.
• 26:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'll also do a hair tissue mineral test to see if it's in your body.
• 26:55
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I've seen that be something that has stopped people from getting well, that have been to amazing physicians that were doing all the right things in the mold realm or all the right things in the Lyme realm.
• 27:05
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And that by itself held people up.
• 27:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So.
• 27:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So that safe environment is step one.
• 27:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Number two is.
• 27:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And concurrently, if you are not feeling safe.
• 27:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So let's say you have anxiety, depression, mood swings, brain fog, you don't feel safe.
• 27:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We need to work on safety, which is what we just talked about.
• 27:22
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Those two things are done concurrently while we're starting to work inside the physical body.
• 27:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And what I do is the first thing I want to bring in is depending upon a person's histamine and inflammatory responses.
• 27:36
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If they're low, then we're going to go more into, like, liver gallbladder lymph drainage first.
• 27:42
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If their histamine or inflammation's high, then we can go work on histamine and inflammation first.
• 27:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Had a woman come in today, said rate was 86, which is way, way too high.
• 27:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And when we looked at, you know, her histamine type responses, I mean, even just taking, like, some milk thistle would cause her to ration break out.
• 28:03
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So, okay, well, we got to work on histamine and inflammation first.
• 28:05
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So we brought in the natural things to begin with to bring down histamine and inflammation.
• 28:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And if we run into a roadblock there, then I have a whole build out of, like, we can go to peptides and we can go to meds from.
• 28:18
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Because.
• 28:18
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Because she wanted to be natural first.
• 28:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So we can just go down the line of what's necessary to bring in for her.
• 28:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Once histamine and inflammation's down, then we're going to drainage.
• 28:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I love bringing in tud cut milk thistle.
• 28:30
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I like bringing in dry brushing, sweating, which can be done in a sauna, and just really getting the body to be clearing itself out.
• 28:38
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Because once I start going in and trying to mobilize toxins, I don't want it getting bunched up on liver flukes, parasites in the liver.
• 28:46
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So that would be the next place I would go before I go into toxins is I'm going to go into opening up drainage pathways.
• 28:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And a lot of people talk about, oh, well, just sweat, detox, coffee enema.
• 28:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm like, those are great.
• 28:58
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But if you have a physical presence in the liver, like a liver fluke or a different parasite, you got to get them out of the way because they're.
• 29:06
  Dr. Jaban Moore: They're physically large and they block things up.
• 29:09
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Also, parasites release endotoxins that cause you to be more constipated and things to move slower.
• 29:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I got to get those out.
• 29:15
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I typically would go to.
• 29:16
  Dr. Jaban Moore: From drainage to parasite to bacteria, bacteria to mold.
• 29:21
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And a lot of people out there going, you got to do mold first.
• 29:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Well, remember I said, get yourself in a safe environment.
• 29:26
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We cannot be living in mold, right?
• 29:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But I may not be detoxing mold first because I want to make sure things that are large, molecules larger than a mycotoxin are out of the way so that when I start mobilizing mycotoxins, they don't get stuck somewhere and cause more problems.
• 29:41
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So once I get through mold and I gotta just throw in there and mold colonization.
• 29:46
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you're not dealing with mold colonization, meaning living, growing mold inside the body, that is something I see missed all the time.
• 29:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then I go into the environmental toxins, metals, viruses and yeast.
• 29:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But something kind of more new in the last few years is the spike protein long Covid complex that sometimes has kind of transplanted itself into the beginning.
• 30:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you have extreme sensitivity with histamines and mast cell, sometimes we have to go in and do the spike protein long Covid work first because you're so reactive.
• 30:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I can't even get to working on parasites.
• 30:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Wow, that's a great frame and so comprehensive and again, so many ways.
• 30:28
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I could not agree more.
• 30:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's.
• 30:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I love that you said you have to be in a safe environment first because that is like non negotiable.
• 30:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It doesn't have to be perfect because some people also in that trauma response freak out and be like, how in the world I'm going to go camp in Idaho, you know, like.
• 30:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And that's not a bad idea.
• 30:44
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But it's like not always necessary to go to that extreme.
• 30:47
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But you really have to make sure you don't have massive mold growth in your environment.
• 30:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We touched on mast cell.
• 30:53
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think that's so important and it's really just you and I talked before at the other podcast too.
• 30:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But I love your framework because it's definitely increasing in prevalence and incidence.
• 31:04
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And to me it's just like a sign of the load on our system.
• 31:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 31:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Like we're getting what's your thoughts on specific mast cell activation, histamine responses are you see of it?
• 31:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And why is that?
• 31:16
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh my gosh.
• 31:17
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I say this all the time.
• 31:19
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm talking to different providers.
• 31:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm like, what is going on in this world?
• 31:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I was working with complex chronic illness, Lyme mold parasites prior to, you know, 2020, 2021.
• 31:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And yeah, I saw some mast cell people, but I hardly heard mcas.
• 31:34
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It wasn't even a thing.
• 31:37
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And that's not something you miss.
• 31:40
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah, right.
• 31:41
  Dr. Jaban Moore: People that can't tolerate sunlight, most foods, most supplements, most homeopathics weren't everyday occurrences.
• 31:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I get somebody like that every day now that they're on.
• 31:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I've got a guy right now that's only goat meat.
• 32:00
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's it.
• 32:00
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's all I can tolerate.
• 32:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh, and just to get him stabilized enough to be functional, we've brought in BPC, KPV and a low dose GLP1 alongside of he can't tolerate LDN, he can't tolerate katata and can't tolerate cromolyn yet.
• 32:21
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So like that dish didn't hardly exist six, seven years ago I saw one or two people ever and then now it's just a flood of it and it's all over social media and it wouldn't be if there wasn't a massive uptick.
• 32:36
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I just built out an entire guide that I was working on for our website and it's up to something like 17% have significant MCash responses.
• 32:45
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Now previous to Covid and all of that it was down below 1%.
• 32:51
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So it's a significant increase.
• 32:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And that's where I even brought up like the long Covid spike protein Covid vaccination complex.
• 33:00
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Because as far as I can tell, besides the stress we all went through during that period of time, that is what's really hanging on to people.
• 33:08
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And when you can solve out some of that before you get into things, it reduces a drastic amount of the work that you've got to do around mitigating mast cell reactivity from what I'm seeing.
• 33:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So yeah, it's way up.
• 33:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I think long Covid is a part of it, I think stress trauma is a part of it, I think non stop dopamine responsing on social media is a part of it.
• 33:37
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But it is honestly just wild.
• 33:41
  Dr. Jaban Moore: The level of reactivity that I see on a day to day basis, 30 seconds of red light can trigger some of the people I've worked with.
• 33:47
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah, no, I could not agree more.
• 33:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It is exponentially increasing and it definitely is post pandemic worse.
• 33:54
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And whether or not that's the only reason, I think there's more than just that.
• 33:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I actually think the mold thing.
• 33:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You and I talked about this support too, but I don't know if it's the EMF increase because this is a living organism that's responding also to our environment just like we are.
• 34:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But there is a massive uptick in homes, new homes, old homes, offices, courthouses, schools that have major mold issues that didn't 10 years ago or even 5 years ago.
• 34:18
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I think I told you this as well, but in the last three months I've been kind of looking for a new home and I looked at over 40 homes so far and I would guess that 80 to 85%, maybe even more, had a significant mold issue.
• 34:31
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Is that not crazy?
• 34:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And these are like new beautiful.
• 34:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: These are not like, you know, $200,000 condo.
• 34:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: These are like really, these are nice homes, you know, nothing and all that.
• 34:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: But the condos, the builds, the new homes, the any and any range, someone can say, oh my goodness, I'm in the range of a, you know, custom multimillion dollar mansion.
• 34:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Some of those are the worst because there's so many areas or so many bathrooms and if they aren't all properly installed.
• 34:55
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So we could go on and on about that.
• 34:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I won't, but I just, I want to acknowledge if you're wondering what is going on, it's very real.
• 35:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There is an increase in mold in homes and people are getting sick.
• 35:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And back to our first part of the story when we said someone has ALS or pancreatic cancer or some new onset autoimmune disease.
• 35:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Many of them have no idea that the root of that is this whole thing.
• 35:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We're talking about Dr. Moroni, which is toxic load, infectious burden, immune inflammation, cell danger response, mast cell activation.
• 35:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Two things you said.
• 35:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I want to go back with so very few practitioners besides you and I are talking about parasites and liver flukes and these things.
• 35:29
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I think in even in great practitioner functional world, especially many of my colleagues, they're like, well, if I can't see it on the stool, it doesn't exist.
• 35:37
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Right.
• 35:38
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You're never going to see flukes on the stool.
• 35:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So how do you diagnose?
• 35:41
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Is it a clinical diagnosis?
• 35:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Is it actual?
• 35:43
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: How do you tell if someone has liver flukes and then that in particular and other parasites?
• 35:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What part do you do herbals?
• 35:50
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Do you do medications?
• 35:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Where do you go with that?
• 35:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: That.
• 35:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Yeah.
• 35:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So when it comes to parasites, the labs are awful.
• 35:56
  Dr. Jaban Moore: They, they're almost useless.
• 35:57
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yes.
• 35:58
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Parasite labs are highly expensive.
• 36:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you want to do them well, you're going to use five, six, seven different lab companies.
• 36:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You're going to spend 500 bucks per each test and you, they might find blast assistance one and giardia on another.
• 36:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it's just, it's not worth the money to do all of that.
• 36:18
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I've had patients that have sent their lab testing over to a veterinarian and the veterinarian's like, oh, I found all these things for you because they looked in there and they're looking for the body parts, the eggs, the ovum, all of it, not just one type.
• 36:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it's somebody that's professionally doing this versus a lab tech.
• 36:37
  Dr. Jaban Moore: No, hate to the lab techs, but they're also only given two minutes and told to look for very specific things.
• 36:42
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it's, who knows how old?
• 36:44
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So the testing is just not worth it.
• 36:48
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And I'm not gonna spend 500 bucks when I can go spend a hundred bucks on a parasite cleanse.
• 36:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And let's just do the test and if you see them come out, yeah, there they are.
• 36:58
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So for those of you that are listening, like, well, how do I know if I have parasites?
• 37:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Well, if you have grinding your teeth, you're dealing with symptoms that worsen around the full moon.
• 37:08
  Dr. Jaban Moore: A lot of times I've seen even like nematodes like Strongyloides around women's ovaries.
• 37:13
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So their cycles are much worse.
• 37:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: If you have GI pain or issues, diarrhea, constipation, any GI symptoms, Honestly, I'm thinking parasites is a potential eczema, rashing, skin rashing, I would consider parasites.
• 37:24
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You could also go to mold.
• 37:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Right?
• 37:26
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Like they're.
• 37:26
  Dr. Jaban Moore: These things overlap significantly.
• 37:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But if you have mold, you basically have parasites.
• 37:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Because if you've had mold for any length of time, you've suppressed your immune system.
• 37:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And by suppressing your immune system, it's allowing whatever you come into contact with, which is dirt and food, to get in your body and cause problems.
• 37:43
  Dr. Jaban Moore: When you're stressed out, you naturally decrease your hydrochloric acid production when you're stressed from living in mold, having trauma, taking antibiotics, working too much.
• 37:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That reduction of hydrochloric acid then makes you more vulnerable to parasites coming into your digestive tract through things like sushi or medium or less cooked meat or anything raw.
• 38:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And when people think raw, they're thinking meat, right?
• 38:06
  Dr. Jaban Moore: No, I'm talking about berries and fruits and other vegetables.
• 38:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: When those are raw, parasites are in there too, because it's coming from the soil.
• 38:17
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So this is something that I get into conversations with people.
• 38:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm like, can you logically tell me that your dog, cat, ferret, whatever you have in your house has parasites that the vet found?
• 38:29
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You see them poop them out when they take the treatment, but you're in the same exact environment, that animal's on your bed, couch, or even kissing you, and you don't have them because all of a sudden humans, we're so uniquely strong with our really good diets and amazing gut health.
• 38:46
  Dr. Jaban Moore: No, not most of us, very few of us have can say that you haven't taken antibiotics, you haven't stressed yourself out.
• 38:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You eat a really organic whole food diet, which maybe some of your listeners do, but the majority know you're telling me you're better off than the wild animals that are supposed to be able to defend against this.
• 39:03
  Dr. Jaban Moore: No, that's not the way it works.
• 39:05
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Absolutely.
• 39:06
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We're going to have parasites.
• 39:07
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then you say what do I use to work on these things?
• 39:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Honestly, I've seen everything work.
• 39:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Ivermectin and benazole, posiquanol work, fenbendazole works.
• 39:17
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But those are unique compounds that are pharmaceutically made that they work towards certain types of parasites and they work for a period of time and then they stop working.
• 39:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: In my experience, I've had people do what's called a sharkman's protocol, where they were cycling multiple high dose medications, like multiple at the same time, which they had to watch their liver markers because it was pretty dangerous for the liver.
• 39:41
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then they came in and I put them on mirinda and black walnut and clove and a few other things and then a bunch more parasites came out.
• 39:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I think the combination can be effective.
• 39:50
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I primarily use herbs and I see that we get pretty good results because I'm also considering the mold, the Lyme, the GI bacterias, the yeast and the viruses alongside of it.
• 40:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And by combining those, the reality is this, your immune system can get rid of the parasites on its own if it's not burdened by other things.
• 40:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So if I can just lower the threshold of the overall burden on your body's going to do the rest.
• 40:16
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And that's how it's designed.
• 40:17
  Dr. Jaban Moore: There is no medication, there is no antibiotic or anti parasitic or antifungal that will absolutely rid you of all organism that is trying to work on.
• 40:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: That's what your immune system will regulate.
• 40:30
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Not the med is just to bring you below pathogenic load.
• 40:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So well, so well put.
• 40:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I like I said, I love talking to you because we're so aligned.
• 40:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm always telling patients, you know, it's just a matter of you gotten mold or you got under stress or you got Covid, long Covid and your immune system bar dropped and then all these things are popping up.
• 40:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's not just the infections because if went out on the street and tested 10,000 people for Lyme disease, I bet 30% of them would have a positive Borrelia, IG and maybe IGM and they're fine.
• 40:59
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: There's no joint pain, no brain fog.
• 41:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So what's the deal with them?
• 41:02
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And then my patient is really sick and bedbound from chronic borrelia or bartonella or Babesia.
• 41:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And the difference is that immune system.
• 41:10
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So at the core we go back to that and the immune system responds to stress and psychological trauma and all the things we Talked about.
• 41:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: About.
• 41:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So gosh, we could talk forever.
• 41:19
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We just did a really good overview.
• 41:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I want to do a few ending questions that I think people are really curious about.
• 41:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We've been talking about complex chronic illness, which there's so much of.
• 41:27
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I want to shift just a little to someone who wants more performance, longevity and just optimal health.
• 41:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And they're doing okay.
• 41:34
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What would be your top three to five peptides that you think are the most promising for just not only the mast cell stuff, but maybe just optimal health and performance?
• 41:43
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You know, there's so many directions to come from with this.
• 41:45
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's such an exciting field right now to start working through.
• 41:49
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So you know the number one most common thing for peptides today is what?
• 41:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Weight loss.
• 41:53
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Right.
• 41:54
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I actually like using the GLPs, whether that is tirzepatide or 2A tide, which is kind of hard to get your hands on today.
• 42:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But those at a really low dose, like a fifth to a tenth of the weight loss dose that people are using out there are really mast cell stabilizing in the gut.
• 42:13
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So especially for the clients that are like, I'm mostly all the way better or I just want to optimize, that can stabilize the gut, it can decrease inflammation, it can help control hunger for those who have had weight loss issues in the past.
• 42:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So those micro doses can be pretty useful.
• 42:31
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I think that's actually starting to catch on a little bit now.
• 42:34
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I do love putting a little testamorlin in there or even some cjc, especially if you want to keep the muscle mass because that's the huge problem is people are overdosing peptides no different than they've overdosed everything else in the past.
• 42:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: A little is good, more must better.
• 42:49
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Right.
• 42:49
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So a little bit of steroids for athletes makes them stronger, faster, and I'm not saying I, I'm behind that.
• 42:55
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But then what did we do back in the 80s and 90s?
• 42:58
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We took a ton of them, which doesn't even show effective at making you all that much stronger.
• 43:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But more is better.
• 43:05
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Right.
• 43:05
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So then they destroyed their livers and destroyed everything else.
• 43:08
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So like that's just the mindset behind people that oftentimes are trying to optimize.
• 43:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So it's finding that happy place.
• 43:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So if you can take a micro dose of a GLP1 with a testamorelin.
• 43:17
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Some studies I read was there was like a 12 fat reduction while putting on muscle mass.
• 43:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Yeah.
• 43:24
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Over a 90 day period, which was incredible.
• 43:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So that can be a great Stack.
• 43:30
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I love combining if you're trying to get into mitochondria, things like a MOT C and an SS31.
• 43:36
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Because now you're working on different parts of the mechanism of mitochondria.
• 43:40
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then once you get the mechanisms built, you could throw in those things like nad and when NAD is good, but some people take it, they're like, it doesn't work for me.
• 43:48
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm like, well, you're too suppressed.
• 43:50
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Your body's not working well enough.
• 43:51
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So if we've already got the optimal stage, let's bring down the inflammation, let's increase the growth hormone and then let's optimize the mitochondria.
• 44:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So your body then starts producing and using the energy.
• 44:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And from there it's just like, well, what do you want to do?
• 44:06
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I mean, people can do a GHKCU for their, their skin, their collagen health.
• 44:12
  Dr. Jaban Moore: You can do a BPC157TB500 for your ligaments and tendons.
• 44:19
  Dr. Jaban Moore: But it just kind of comes down to if we're in longevity and optimizing, what's your goals?
• 44:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Are you a, you want to be a crossfitter?
• 44:26
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Do you want to be a marathoner?
• 44:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Do you want to just feel good long term?
• 44:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Perfect.
• 44:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh my gosh, that was a phenomenal.
• 44:32
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I told you guys it'd be worth the wait.
• 44:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So.
• 44:35
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And agree on all fronts.
• 44:36
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Like, and it's funny because this is just now popular.
• 44:39
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I've been doing these stacks with patients for over 10 years, like CLPs before they were ever even on the radar at all.
• 44:46
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We used them in diabetes and we use them in body composition.
• 44:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And I've known that and you have too probably been.
• 44:51
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: This is nothing new.
• 44:52
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It's just all of a sudden finally popular and there is safety.
• 44:56
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So you and I know that in the hands of a good practitioner.
• 44:58
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Please, guys, don't get these on the black market because there is.
• 45:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I had two patients that have had anaphylaxis with Amorelin.
• 45:05
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Either Moralin, because either impurity.
• 45:09
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We don't know for sure if it was impurity.
• 45:10
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I'm not sure which kind they use, but they were literally, they called the emergency, you know, the ambulance.
• 45:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It was pretty severe.
• 45:16
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: So be careful.
• 45:17
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you're out there trying these without a doctor's supervision, I would recommend you use medical superv.
• 45:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Last question is personal for you.
• 45:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: What is the top three habits that you could not live without that have kept you performing and just learning and growing?
• 45:31
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: And what are the top three things that are most important for you personally.
• 45:35
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Oh, I'm going to give you a laugh because you're looking at buying a home or building a home or whatever you're going to do.
• 45:40
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I built my shower in my bathroom with a glass plate in the shower cut out of the wall of the tiled wall and it is a 42 inch red light panel that I have stuck in there with electricity safely outside of the shower and I just press the button before I go in.
• 45:56
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I red light shower versus just like standing.
• 46:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I'm also, I also love to be busy so I do that which helped my knees because well, here's for all of your patients, here's some flexibility for all of those people that are Ehlers Danlos or hyper collagen levels.
• 46:18
  Dr. Jaban Moore: There you are.
• 46:20
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So for me I was getting joint dislocations.
• 46:23
  Dr. Jaban Moore: My kneecap kept coming off in high school, so my knee didn't love continuing to work out when I was not red lighting.
• 46:30
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And since I've been red lighting I can work out so much more on that injured knee.
• 46:36
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then to go with that, the other things that I, I really like to do is I've kind of been addicted to saunaing lately.
• 46:44
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I got a sunlight and sauna.
• 46:45
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I sit inside there, it's the 70 by 70 and it has a TV.
• 46:51
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I sit in there and I put on like your podcast or somebody else's podcast that I want to listen to and learn and I'm able to watch that while sitting in a red light infrared sauna.
• 47:03
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And then we put like hydrogen in there while we're sitting in there.
• 47:06
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So you get all of those biohacks inside the sauna.
• 47:10
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I'm loving that.
• 47:11
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I said red light and then I said sauna.
• 47:14
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And honestly I'm just going to go back to the old school one.
• 47:17
  Dr. Jaban Moore: I love working out and I love working out intensely and I love working out in a group.
• 47:22
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I go to a.
• 47:25
  Dr. Jaban Moore: What I didn't know when I signed up, but I call it the old man's CrossFit gym at this point because the average age is like 45, 50, so it's not like let's just get in there and lift the heaviest weights and do the most muscle ups.
• 47:36
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's let's get in there and do heart rate hit type workouts but also have days of longer cardio workouts.
• 47:44
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So they built it for people that aren't trying to go to the games and compete in CrossFit.
• 47:49
  Dr. Jaban Moore: It's more for, hey, we just like to all do this together and be a group.
• 47:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I get that positive reinforcement of group and community and conversation along with whether it be strength training, intermittent training, or long training.
• 48:02
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And it's all designed in the week, so.
• 48:04
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So fitness, sauna and red light.
• 48:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh my goodness.
• 48:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I love it.
• 48:07
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I can't wait to try some of this in my new home.
• 48:11
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Really, really love it.
• 48:12
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Oh my gosh.
• 48:12
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: As always, it is such a pleasure to talk to you.
• 48:15
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Thank you for bringing, like such a consolidated amount of information in our time.
• 48:20
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If people want to know more about you've got a podcast.
• 48:23
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: You've got so many programs and services and things.
• 48:25
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Where can they find more about you?
• 48:27
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Just look me up.
• 48:28
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Dr. Jabin Moore.com or on YouTube or Instagram.
• 48:32
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We're growing our YouTube.
• 48:34
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Want to be like you someday with a giant YouTube supporting people and educating people.
• 48:38
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Our Instagram is a little bit bigger than anything else, so we put out content every single day because the goal is this.
• 48:45
  Dr. Jaban Moore: When I was searching for help, I couldn't find it.
• 48:47
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So I want to be able to give that education and that help to people.
• 48:52
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So that's why we're putting out social media every day.
• 48:54
  Dr. Jaban Moore: And we work virtually across the nation.
• 48:57
  Dr. Jaban Moore: We work with people all over the place.
• 48:59
  Dr. Jaban Moore: So just jump out there.
• 49:00
  Dr. Jaban Moore: Dr. Jabin Moore.
• 49:01
  Dr. Jaban Moore: My name is spelled J A B as in boy a N. And you can find me.
• 49:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Awesome.
• 49:06
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Thanks again for coming on the show.
• 49:08
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: We are going to have to do this again.
• 49:10
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hey guys, wasn't that a great packed interview with Dr. Jabon Moore?
• 49:14
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: I hope you enjoyed it.
• 49:16
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Hey guys, if you haven't yet subscribed or liked on wherever you're listening, why don't you please just hit the subscribe button.
• 49:22
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It helps us reach more people.
• 49:24
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: we're on target to hit 1 million subscribers on YouTube this year and we'd love for you to be part of that.
• 49:30
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: If you haven't yet, click the bell to be notified of future episodes.
• 49:33
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• 49:42
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: It also helps us reach more people with even better people that I bring on the show.
• 49:48
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: Thanks again guys for joining us.
• 49:49
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: As always, you can find more information on my website, jillcarnahan.com if you have any suggestions for guests or future podcast episodes, I always am willing to take that information and I will see you again next week.
• 50:01
  Dr. Jill Carnahan, MD: For another episode of Resiliency Radio.