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Defunct Pittsburgh Sports Venues · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: On today's episode, we're going to go over sports venues that aren't there anymore, or you could call them defunct sports venues.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: As usual, be joined by my co-host.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Tim Hannon.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he's gonna be joining on our journey through the uh past of sports venues, some of which we attended, some of which we probably well, we could definitely I could definitely say we neither of us ever did.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: So but um, you know, these were all places that uh some of the most cherished and legendary spit sports moments, uh Pittsburgh sports moments happened.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, unfortunately, as uh most things in life happen, you know, father time is undefeated.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, they saw their prime come and go, and they now only exist in the memories of the fans who attended them.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, like we're gonna go over them.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: So uh without any further ado, we will jump right in here.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the first one up on our list is the Civic Arena, or well, I guess Melon Arena, if you remember it as that name later in its career, but it was mainly the Civic Arena, right, Tim?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be always be the Civic Arena to you.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I never called it the Melon Arena.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was only the Civic Arena, huh?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Those melons and their money, right?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So um uh a quick background.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was built for the Pittsburgh CLO, which is the Civic Light Opera, which they do like plays and such.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it became the home of the Penguins in 1967.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was really built to be an amphitheater for concerts, but over time it became known as the Igloo, and it was primarily known for the penguins.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember the last time the CLO did a concert there or play or Annie Get Your Gun or whatever Le Miserab, or they always did it at the Benedom, not the Civic Arena.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So um, it was in service from 1961, so it actually predated the penguins by six years.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they actually were that's weird that they built that and actually did not have a major tenant till 1967.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: So and it, of course, was uh out of uh commission in 2011.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um teams that played there, uh the Pittsburgh Rens, which we've covered, uh the Pittsburgh Hornets of the AHL actually played there.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: They were the uh professional hockey team that predated the penguins, they were the AHL team.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Duquesne actually played there from 1964 to 1988, um, the Pittsburgh Pipers and Condors, of course the Penguins from 67 to 2010.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they had an ABA finals in 68 with the Condors.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, who could forget those Pittsburgh Triangles, the world team tennis and their championship?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, of course, the Pittsburgh Spirit and the Gladiators.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, it also was home to the uh Stanley Cup Finals in '91, '92, 2008, and 2009.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, there was a couple other teams that uh did.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, the uh other stuff the venue hosted outside of Penguins Games and Stanley Cup Finals was the uh Civic Light Opera.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm sure Tim, and that was only from 61 to 73, so maybe that's why me or Tim never saw any, you know, Civic Light Opera stuff there.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, Tim's a big patron of the arts.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's it's funny that, like you said, that's what it was originally built for.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: If you talk to my mom, she'll tell you she would go there, I think it was Friday nights after work.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think her and her sister would go there for the Civic Light Opera.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's what it was for.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: They would open the roof when it was warm and and they would do the Civic Light Opera there.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it you're right, it was not built as a hockey arena.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: That was never its intended purpose.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, really.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it showed.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Beatles on September 14th, 1964, played a concert there.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Can you guess what the cost of a ticket was to get into the Civic Arena to see George Harrison?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is the original lineup, of course.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, you know, uh Ringo.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Ringo was in the Beatles by 64.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So this would have been after Ed Sullivan?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I would say so.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think Sullivan was 63, right?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: So this would have had to have been a pretty expensive ticket, right?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: It would be a grand total of$5.90.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Which I don't know what that would be, you know, 1964 to 2022.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: But still that could only be like 15 or 20 dollars at the most.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Which would like considering like what concert tickets go for now, it's wow, crazy.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the last the last concert there was the James Taylor and Car Carol King's Troubadour reunion tour.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was at June 26, 2010.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know Carol King.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I guess Carol King Carol, I thought Carol King had passed away by 2010, but I I unless they were just singing her songs, I don't know.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: But uh good good times were had there.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know I remember I saw a Billy Joel concert there, I think.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I was with you.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: That was in 1999.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think I went and saw another Billy Joel con I think I seen him twice there with Elton John.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: That one was not yeah, the 99 one was not Elton John, but yeah, I've actually seen Billy Joel twice there.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um the big moments that happened there, of course, game six of the Stanley Cup 2008, the Penguins lost to Detroit.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Mario scoring five different ways on December 31st, 1988, against the Devils.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So he scored on an empty net, power play, penalty shot, and even strength.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't has anybody done that since?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a bit of history for the Civic Arena.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um Muhammad Ali KO'd some guy named Charlie Powell on January 24th, 1963.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um, of course, it hosted the city game between Duquesne and Pitt in basketball many, many times.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um Copp and State, do you remember the 15th seed?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: This is in the tournament, knocked off South Carolina, a two-seed in the NCAA tournament 78-65.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was in '97.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: I remember I remember that too because I was going to Duquesne in 1997 and Duquesne was the host school.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Even though it was the Civic Arena, Duquesne was the host school, and I remember that that being you know the huge thing in the tournament that year.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Coppin State winning a game is the 15th seed.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because 15-2s didn't happen.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I still think they're pretty not common, right?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty rare even today, yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, that infamous five overtime game between the penguins and flyers, which we all probably care to forget.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and of course the Yager goal in 1999 to beat the Devils in overtime, which we went over in the goal that I think was that the yeah, that's the goal that saved the Penguins.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: So uh fun stuff I remember.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, Tim maybe remember.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean you're more into wrestling.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: All there was a bunch of SummerSlams and WWE and WWF stuff.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: So um I I I got to see WWE I can't remember if it was WWE at the time, but it was Raw.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: It was when they had Monday Night Raw.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was back in the heyday of like The Rock and Kurt Angle and those guys.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: I also had tickets to see the WWF back in like I want to say like 1986.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was a kid, and it was like Hulk Hogan that era, but I got chicken pox.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to stay home.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: And my brother and my dad and everybody else got to go.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: I had to stay home.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my WWF memory from the Civic Arena is the one that I missed in the 80s.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: That uh yeah, you know, talk about stuff kids will never have happen to them now with the uh chicken pox shot, I guess.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'll never have to worry about that.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, in 95 in SummerSlam, the Undertaker beat Kama or Karma, I don't know, in the casket match.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know who that was.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know who The Undertaker is, but I don't know who the other guy was.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: So um the it had a retractable roof, like you said, and I I remember um one time in the movie The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh, the Pittsburgh basketball team with Dr.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: J and everybody else came through the roof of the Civic Arena in a hot evolution.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: So of course the movie Sudden Death was filmed there, which was just you know, of course, great moment there, blown up cars in the parking lot.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Who was it?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: What was it?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Booth.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Powers Booth was the bad guy, I think.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which are murdering iceberg.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, iceberg was a bad guy.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: He was a bad guy in that, so he deserved it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, also, uh, like we were talking about the roof.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: The roof couldn't be opened after what the nine was that the 90s?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because Howard Burr Baldwin built these like crazy seats way up in the rafter, so they couldn't open the roof anymore.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I actually um our relatives has uh had season tickets to the penguins, and they are in like like the first row of that way up there.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it was actually they weren't like the view was really good, but you would feel like like you were going to fall out of the the balcony because it was just so steep and just like it was ridiculous.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: How that was just kind of like just I don't even know.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: It just felt like it was super glued in there.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: I I had season tickets in 2002.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I had season tickets up there because they were super cheap season tickets, they were like twenty dollars a game or something.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right, it wasn't a bad view, but but the that there could not have been seats there.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like that was not a place where you really could have put seats, but they figure out a way to do it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: And and I watched people you had to climb a thousand steps to get up there, and I watched several times that season someone get to the top of the steps and refuse to go any further.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like they like they had never been up there before.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, no, I'm not nope, nope.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: They would walk right back down because they thought they were just gonna fall off a ledge.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's I kind of impressive that nobody ever fell out of that.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was just so steep and so high.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: They they had these real high railings to prevent that.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um like in between every row was these big railings to keep you from literally from falling over.
• 11:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't comfortable either because like your knees would hit like the front of this, because uh it was like everything was just really just squeezed in there.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just like, hey, let's throw some extra seats in the uh arena here.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: That was Howard Ballman, if you can hang seats off the roof.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm surprised that like they didn't he didn't have something where you were just like face down like Spread Eagle, like watching the game from like uh suspended from like a bungee court or something.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that was his next idea.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I actually saw my first pro hockey game there.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was versus the Winnipeg Jets in the late 1980s.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I I think the Penguins lost in overtime, if I remember correctly.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also I had a gr I remember I had like a really great time watching Monster Jam.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like the monster trucks that come like normally over like around Valentine's Day.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's like I said, that's my like I get in touch with my inner white trash and I watch the uh the monster trucks crush cars.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not once again, it's like it's way too small for them to really do like a real show, so they just kind of jump over a small set of cars, and I don't know.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is what it is, I guess.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I was entertained.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: So no monster jet uh monster jam memories for you, uh Tim.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, my memories, my earliest memories, I I talked about this in a previous episode, were those Pittsburgh Spirit games in the early 80s, because my parents took me to a lot of those before I ever went to a penguin game or really even cared about the penguins.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: I loved indoor soccer and went to a bunch of Pittsburgh Spirit games.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: And and then later on, you know, the penguin games, uh, and and about just a bunch of other events, like you said, like the the I remember seeing the Harlem Globetrotters there.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or like Disney on ice or uh right, just any anything like that.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I saw um yeah, yeah, I saw uh whatever the year Michelle Kwan when she was the popular figure skater.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they had like the the ice stars of something like that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my wife grew up figure skating, so she wanted to go see Michelle Kwan, and we went and saw that.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, just so many events at that place.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I the last event I ever saw there was the 2009 City Game.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned the City Game being played there a lot.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's the last time I was ever there at the Pit 2 King game that year.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh maybe it was 2010, but it was it was that year that the arena closed.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: That was the last event I was there for, and my seats were right next to a beam that completely obstructed your view.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like it was like nostalgic, but at the same time, I'm like, oh man, I you know I'm really glad they're ripping this place down.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: And do you remember the odor that that place had?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: It had a very distinctive, like dried nacho cheese smell.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't remember that, but I do remember I remember I went to another game and we sat in like that level C, and like because there was an overhang, uh overhang of the next level, like to see the other because we were in the one end, to see the other end, you had to like stand up because you couldn't see over people, and like then it would be blocked by the upper level of the it was not conducive to watching hockey.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a bad place to watch a concert, but that's what it was built for was concerts.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, PPG Paints Arena is a thousand times nicer.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's way better than than the than the Civic Arena.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: But the arena had a lot of charm and we'll miss it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: That metal roof and yeah, the the signs.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot, a lot, a lot of uh fun times and memories there at the Civic Arena.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um a place that uh I'm sure uh Tim attended many times here uh next on our list here.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Exposition Park 2.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, you didn't go to the first one because you know you weren't around for that, but Exposition Park 2, the electric boogaloo is a uh yes, no, uh neither of us remember this because it was um gone in 1915, which would be roughly oh, I don't know, 61 years before I was born.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um my father was not born for another 20 or 30 years, so and I might I think my grandfather wouldn't have even been born by the time that because my grandfather was born in 1918, so wow.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Excess Exposition Park went back a ways there.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's the first ballpark for the pirates.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was built in the 19th century and it flooded.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason it flooded was because it was built in like 1891 or 1890, and they didn't have flood control on the rivers until the 30s.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: That was one of the um New Deal projects from uh FDR.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever uh you know the whole north side doesn't flood, you can thank Franklin Delano Roosevelt for that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, if anybody even cares about him anymore, but he was a fairly influential president.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: So Steve, I I I I I apologize if I'm jumping the gun on this, and you were already gonna tell us why was it Exposition Park 2?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because there was an Exposition Park 1.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Did the Pirates play there?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't look that up, but I'm sure they did because the Pirates are 1887, so I imagine.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know where Exposition Park 1 was.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: That was way before I mean that was like, you know, 1887, so good gravy.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: What was that like the Grant administration?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Was and by Grant, I mean Ulysses S.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Grant, the 17th president of the United States.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Or no, 18th president, my bad.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Forgot about Andrew Johnson, but uh yeah, I think so.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that would have been great, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe not.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: It might have been like Harrison, but anyway, it's going way back, way back.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh teams have played in Exposition Park 2, because the sequel is always better than the first one.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh, that would be the Pirates from 1891 to 1909.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And Pit Football actually did play their first game in 1904 to 1908.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Pit football played there.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um big moments that happened, and actually some big very big moments did happen in this this uh park stadium.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even think it really was a stadium.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think it just was basically like a park with some stands.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: On October 6, 1903, 7,600 people attended the first World Series, and that was the first World Series game in a National League stadium, because I guess the other games had been played in Boston because it was like what a nine-game series right back then.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know about that what game they switched there.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates won by one run, and then the following day, 12,000 people attended the game, forcing some spectators to stand behind a rope in the outfield.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates lost three or four games at Exhibition Park and eventually the series.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates lost the first World Series.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: The first Pitt football game in 1890.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um then in 1904, Pit Football Um they I forget they they played like some team.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: They just they they were supposed to play another team. 'Cause team.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: I remember reading about that and they just like called up another team that came and pit lost to 'em.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Just like some pickup team.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, oh yeah, we'll play you.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, oh, we lost.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Whoops.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they were typical Pitt.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they weren't even pit back then, they were like Western Pennsylvania University, so they weren't even officially pit yet.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: This predates like Pop Warner by years.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: So in 1904, Pitt Football went 10-0 and finished second behind the University of Pennsylvania.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um the Pirates won the NL League pennant in 1901-1902, which would have predated the World Series, and then again in 1903.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: In 1907, Pirate pitcher Nick Maddox threw a no-hitter there.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: That of course was the dead ball era when you could like scuff up the ball and make it real dirty and throw spitballs and all kinds of fun stuff.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Fred Clark, the Pirates' most successful manager, managed there.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, Honus Wagner and his prime played there.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you know, since everybody gets all worked up about like Barry Bonds and like you know, steroids not getting into the Hall of Fame, like why do people not get mad at like the pitchers from like this dead ball era that threw like split balls and scuffed balls and stuff?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that cheating?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like back then it wasn't, it wasn't against the rules, so just throwing that out there, and we're gonna like all go back in time and like you know, that's it.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: You guys are out of the hall of fame because you cheated.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the moral of the story is people have cheated in baseball throughout the whole history of baseball.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it wasn't cheating back then, it wasn't against the rules to throw a spitball.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you also you could also make the argument that they didn't play against African American players.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: So they didn't have that, you know.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's all kinds of I think there's all kinds of a justification you can do of why baseball's stupid for selectively eliminating people from its hall of fame.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: But that's a that's a whole nother episode.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um fun stuff I remember, and um by I remember I'll mean stories that I've read about since uh I mean I didn't have my DeLorean and I couldn't go 88 miles an hour.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm sure in 2022, you know, plutonium can be found at any drugstore, but you know, in 1915 it's a little hard to come by.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um Art Rooney Sr.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: almost drowned when his canoe overturned in the outfield.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, what would Pittsburgh sports be like if he didn't make it?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that him and his two friends were rowing across the outfield for some reason because it would flood.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: And like he had like heavy boots and a coat, and he like fell in, and like somehow he made it to the bleachers on the other side of the field before he was not able to swim anymore.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that's kind of like uh, you know, what would have happened to Spitzberg Sports, you know, if George Bailey wasn't there to save his brother.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: What a stupid way to go, too.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like I drowned in left field of the pirates ballpark.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: What you drowned?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like you weren't there to sign Terry Bradshaw.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Bradshaw's a Hall of Famer and a four Super Bowl winner.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Terry Bradshaw's a loser from Louisiana Tech.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh well.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's neither here nor there.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Our It's a Wonderful Life alternate.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: And we did do an alternative live timeline.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we should have visited that one indoor alternative timelines.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: But um in line with the outfield flooding, which is just unbelievable.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: During a 1902 July 4th, oh, and they played on July 4th, 92 doubleheader against the Brooklyn Super Boss.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Remember that big rivalry with that team for Brooklyn, huh?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: An Allegheny flood caused the water to rise to thigh level and center and right fields.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And about head level in deep center.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Players occasionally caught a ball and dove under the water.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like catching a ball and like splash.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Woo.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: I guess it counts as an out, right?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the Pirates won both uh both games of the doubleheader and that in the rain and flooding.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um other stuff that the venue hosted since this like you know was like 1915.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure what was going on, but I'm sure Scott Joplin played some ragtime music there.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I have a link to some Scott Joplin music if you're not familiar with him.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Moving on from uh X good old Exposition Park um to uh one Duquesne Gardens, and this is another place that uh we'll just have to uh tell you about, like I had to read about because um I never went there.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um people talk about recycling and how people never recycled things.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is a perfect example of reuse, re recycle.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: So this was a trolley barn, and then somebody had the brilliant idea.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you know that place where we keep the trolleys?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I bet we can put an ice rink there.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: That is some forward thinking.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: So in the night in the 1890s, that's what they did.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: They said, uh, okay, we're gonna put an ice rink in a trolley barn.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: So there you have it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: In 1890, uh the teams that played there were the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NHL.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, tricky.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, they named a lot of teams the same.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: That was from 1925 to 1930.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: The Hornets, of course, from HA from the AHL from 36 to 56.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: We covered them uh in the defunct teams thing.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: The Shamrocks, Yellow Jackets, which is the more professional hook hockey teams, something called the Pittsburgh Bankers.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I guess you could cash their checks with them.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um what's weird is uh the Duquesne basketball actually played there from 1914 to 1956.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that was their home court for a long time.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Pit Basketball played there from 1905 to 1912.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: So um very interesting that you know both Pitt Basketball and Duquesne, actually Duquesne for a very long time played up there at Duquesne Gardens.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure where this was located.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: I looked it up, it's it's in Oakland.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like the the street.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Billy Conn Boulevard.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: We'll go over that in a minute.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, other stuff that the venue hosted was Cab Callaway in 1933, Heidi Heidi, Heidi, no, Heidi, Heidi.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean no Cab Callaway, and some group called the Red Hot Peppers, not Chili Peppers.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's no Anthony Keatis, that was in 1929.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So whoever the red hot peppers were, I'm sure it was a heck of a show in 1929.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And wasn't that in the middle of Prohibition?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that must have been uh really fun, really fun times, huh?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh everybody drank their uh sarsaparellas.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, big moments that happened at the venue.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the first NHL game in Pittsburgh in 1925, uh, a bunch of Calder Calder Cup final games.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I Calder Cup final game in 1951.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was of course with the Hornets.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um Billy Kahn, the famed Pittsburgh boxer, he uh fought at the gardens.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: So um fun stuff I remember.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: This is of course things I read about.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Not I never attended the Duquesne Gardens.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: So um there is a there's a small portion of the wall of the Duquesne Gardens in the PPG Paints Arena, I guess one of the um luxury suites they took part of the wall and put it there like as a nice little tribute to early hockey history.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I've heard people talk about this on the radio and stuff, the older old timers.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's just one of those venues that you've heard a lot about.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And of course it was torn down during I think Renaissance One under David Lawrence.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: They built an apartment building there.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: And is it weird that both Pitt and Duquesne played basketball there?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, actually full-time.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's kind of odd, but I don't know, like it's kind of like the roots of hockey were there, along with a lot of they did a lot of other stuff there too, but it I think it only seated like four or five thousand people.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a very big big uh venue.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, yeah, to your point, Steve.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and two teams playing there, I think, you know, but like you said about repurposing the trolley barn.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: That was the mentality back in the day was cost effectiveness.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like luxury or you know, let's build a football stadium where where there's only eight games a year.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: It was all about you know cost effectiveness.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, they they probably did have a place where both of the major college teams could play and and fit three other things in there if you can.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you figure too, in 1890, I'm not if I know my history, I mean that predates electricity, doesn't it?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, there might have been indoor plumbing, but uh you know, I mean they they really had an electrified, they're still using gas lamps.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how they how they made the ice unless they just waited till it freezes in the winter or something, you know, without electricity.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not quite sure how you do that.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't even know.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't have air conditioning or freezers, so I I'm not quite sure how they made ice back then.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: They must have just like I said, must have just had to wait for it get cold enough or bring ice in from another place.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: So definitely an interesting place in uh it is kind of wild how they just re it was supposedly very big for a ice rink, but there wasn't there just wasn't a lot of seats.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: So and even the Civic Arena, like we said, like you know, hockey wasn't as big as baseball.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, baseball and boxing were definitely the bigger sports back then in horse racing for that as you know early part of the 20th century until you know really nine to what mid the 60s when football started to kind of take over.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: So uh another uh venue now this venue still is standing, but I put it in here because it's not really used for what it was most remembered for, and that's uh Fitzgerald Fieldhouse.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's on uh Pitts Upper Campus, would you say, Tim?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like yeah, I mean it's kind of down the street from where the Peterson Event Center is.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um Its background, it was built in 1951 for pit track volleyball, gymnastics, and wrestling.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it was mainly known for hosting pit basketball until the Peterson Events Center.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was named after Rufus, dude.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Rufus Fitzgerald, a chancellor at Pitt from 1945 to 1955.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, Wild Stallions Rule, I guess.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: And and there's another place that only seat only seats 5,000.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: So years in service, 1951 to present, so it still exists.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh teams have played there.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: That would have been uh Pitt Basketball, of course, and Duquesne basketball, ironically enough, played at Pitts on campus the court.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Is that odd again?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it like why did poor Duquesne and Duquesne was successful, much more successful in basketball than Pitt was at this time, right?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: That was back when they were winning the NIT and stuff in the 50s.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: So why poor Duquesne didn't have a stadium all of their own?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: I guess when I don't know when the Palumbo Center was built, but obviously not yet.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what what do they call the Palumbo Center now?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Cooper, the Cooper Center or something.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the UPMC Cooper something field house or something.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: What is their UPM?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: So AHN can't afford.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, AHN has the Riverhounds HighMark Stadium, so I guess that's their yeah.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: AHN hasn't moved in on that gig yet.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it's it's UPMC, like everything else in this town.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: Eventually we'll become a UPMC something or something or other.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: My house will eventually be the UPMC Tim Hannon household.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, brought to you.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be the uh you know Hill Hillman uh sponsored by the Hillman Center here or something.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now that being said, UPMC, if you'd like to sponsor the podcast, there's an opening.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um other stuff that the venue hosted in 1962, JFK delivered a speech there.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um there was no sign of Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was still in Cuba or Russia or not in Pittsburgh.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So JFK was safe at that time.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: So thank God for that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, big moments that happened there.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Here, um I guess we'll just play this one.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a pretty good one.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're back in Pittsburgh, where 23 years ago, tomorrow Jerome Lane and Bill Ramtree became a part of Pittsburgh basketball history.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right, nobody's home picked off by Phillip goes ahead lanes on the other wing.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right oh yeah send it in Gerrow just inferior equipment and superior body strength name delayed 32 minutes until they found a new backboard up the hill at the old Fitzgerald fieldhouse and I've been with you I can't count how many times when somebody's come up to you on the street or in an arena and said, send it in, Jerome.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_05: That was a lot of fun.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_05: Sean Miller making the play, and it I think the big guys I used to stay the next flight of the day.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_05: I think I did a dupe game.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_05: I don't even remember.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, that's Jerome Lane breaking the black backboard, which was just an awesome moment.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I remember when that happened.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I told that before.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like my uh coach in rec league basketball was at that game and had the ticket and the piece of the backboard, and he brought it to like our next game or practice.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: I remember seeing that, and I thought it was just the coolest thing ever.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that was a great moment.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of those like underrated Pittsburgh sports moments.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and and that's funny, uh, Bill Rafferty, I mean, he really made that moment, that whole send it in Jerome clip.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's been played a thousand times since then.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just yeah, and like he said, like he said, he was saying the was that Jay Billis was sitting there, yeah.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I don't know if it's in the Duke game.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: So he had some fun at Jay Billis' expense.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: So um fun stuff I remember, or well, I don't remember because I never saw a game there, but um Khaled Al-Amin jumping on the scorers table.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: We were just complaining about that the other day.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: I guess his kid scored some points, you know.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that was like he he hit a big game-winning shot over Pitt, and like he decided to jump on the scorers table and celebrate.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: And people from Pitt just started throwing stuff at him, and he was all offended by that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Him and Jim Calhoun were like, I can't believe people did that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I've I've talked in past episodes about my immense disdain for call it alamine.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, his son just crushed Duquesne about a couple of weeks ago.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: They were playing a game, and and his son just crushed Duquesne.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Really?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: That guy's son's playing now, come on.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, at least he didn't jump on the scores table down at the Chuck UPMC Chuck Cooper Center.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um I a funny story, I I was supposed to go to a pit basketball game there, and they had like like pit basketball was really bad back then.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it like it was like you got two tickets for like five bucks or something.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was something phenomenally cheap.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what my mom did was instead of writing a chick check for like five dollars, because I guess she figured it was such a little amount of money, who would care?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: She just put the actual five dollar bill in with the order form and sent cash through the mail.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: So can you guess if I ever got my tickets to that pit basketball game or not?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh that's sad.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: So you never got to go.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: No, I never got to go.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody, somebody in the pit ticket office or the mailman stole stole the five dollars out of the envelope and we got bupkis, and I've never I don't have any memories of Fitzgerald Fieldhouse except for driving it on the way to like go to the pit dental school or whatever I was doing up there on the upper campus.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe or maybe they'll clean up the the Beach View post office someday and they'll find they'll find an envelope that got stuck behind a cabinet somewhere.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: Nineteen eighty seven five dollar bill in it.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, with with the with the order form.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I was really supposed to see Pit Syracuse that year.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but anyway, uh that's the Fitzgerald field house.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you never went there either, right?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I was never I was never really a big pit basketball fan.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was always more of a Duquesne basketball fan, and I just never never made it there.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've been to the Pete several times, but never made it to the field house back in the day.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, neither have I, and I heard it's a fun place to watch a game.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's very small and like a very intimate.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like you only see it's 5,000 people, so but um hey, uh good times.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's still around, so if you go see a track or I don't think the I think the volleyball team plays in the P, I think.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: I know you know the women's basketball plays there.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: So um moving on to uh places that probably a little bit more well known, that would be one Forbes Field.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: In uh a little bit of background.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Umer Barney Dreyfus built it in 1909 to replace Exhibition Park 2.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: Hang on a second, Steve.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: Time out.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, owner Barney Dreyfus had the city raise taxes to pay for it?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what you meant to say?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, see, Barney Dreyfus, I don't know what he did.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think he didn't he build like merry-go-rounds or Ferris wheels or something, or something like that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: So so so he didn't threaten to move the team and then have to have funds.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: They would have laughed at him.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like whoever was the Republican, because actually it was the Republicans who controlled everything back then, funny enough.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Weirdly enough, the Republican mayor probably would have laughed at him.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't even think like in 1909, I'm not completely sure of the history, but that's still I'm not sure if the city had annexed um that part of that was old Allegheny, the north side.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: So that might have still been its own city, too.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure when the city annexed, you know, which just sounds so it sounds like you know, Russia taking, you know, like you know, like the city of Pittsburgh invaded the north side, you know, like haha, you're all ours now.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Ha ha ha ha.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or it's like some big war of the north side.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: God, who would want it?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, I grew up on the north side practically when the church of Brendan.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm sure that if owners in 1909 could have figured out that they could, you know, hold cities hostages for public funding, they would have done it, but they hadn't yet figured that out, unfortunately for them.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: They actually had to build their own parks.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: Imagine that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: I I think too, like, I don't think sports was kind of had not become the cultural, like, what do I want to say, touchstone or hadn't become like the cultural phenomena that it has become now.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I think when the Dodgers left Brooklyn that that star that kind of like started that in the 50s, like that devastated Brooklyn so bad, you know?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that because teams came and went and folded and moved and you know Kansas City, what the football team had like three different didn't they yeah, they moved to Texas, didn't they?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: After being in Kansas City, or they moved from somewhere in Texas to Kansas City.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it's it you know, Cleveland we how many times we talk about the Cleveland Barons, weren't you know, they they went under, or you know, what other other the Pottsville Maroons or you know how many teams have gone under like in those early 20th centuries?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: So um so why was it called Forbes Field?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's named after Johns Forbes, who was a hero general of the French and Indian War.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that wasn't a war between the French and the Indians.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's you have to remember the history was written by from the English perspective.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: So from the English perspective, we're fighting the French and the Indians, or Native Americans if you want, but it's called the French and Indian War, which was really part of a bigger world war, which no one ever I didn't realize until a couple years ago.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I if you can't tell, I'm a bit of a history buff.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry if it's showing in this episode, but it's always it's always fun to kind of know where you came from.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: So John Forbes won a big battle and uh made Pittsburgh kind of, you know, if it wasn't for John's Forbes, we might be all speaking French and you know, I don't know.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: We'd be like, you know, Quebec or something.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: We'd all be playing hockey more than we do now.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um so at the time in 1909, it was 25,000.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: He built a 25,000 seat stadium I do believe in 1909, or at least 15 or 20, which you figure the attendance what did I say, the first the attendance of the World Series was only 12,000.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and that was only less than five years.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that he uh Barney Dreyfus put his money where his mouth is and really took a chance there.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Barney Dreyfus didn't like cheap home runs, he was not a fan of cheap home runs, so he decided to build the biggest darnedest baseball field he could build.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: The outfield fence in left, center, and right were 360 feet to left, 462 feet to dead center, and 376 feet to right field.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think even now that would that still that would have to be even if you redid that, that's have to be the biggest field of the majors, even if today, right?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can't think of like Coorsfield.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably even bigger than Corbs, Coorsfield in Denver.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they said it was so they said it was so big out in center field that they used to leave the batting, like the batting practice like backstop that they would move out for games.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: They would just leave it out in center field because nobody would hit it that far.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean 465 feet.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's unbelievable.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: That is way out there.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: So in uh they they they wanted to add more seats, so they moved the right field in the fence into 300 feet, which is actually now pretty short even by today's stand for standards, but they made the wall 28 feet high.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess that's kind of why in PNC Park, although they say it's 21 feet for Roberto Clemeny, but Klemenny played a lot in Forbes Field, so that was he knew how to play that.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: They I've always heard stories like Klemeni knew how to play that ricochet off that high fence there in uh Forbes Field.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: So um didn't they move the left field fence in also after they signed?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they the Killibrew's Garden wasn't Harmon Killibrew.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was Hank Greenberg.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's it, yeah.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because they called Greenberg's Gardens, yeah.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Because they signed him late in his career and they were like, oh, he he'll hit more home run.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: I guess that was post-Barney Dreyfus in the cheap home run era because they wanted cheap home runs at that point.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they needed to fill those 25,000 seats that they had.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um the years in service was uh 1909 to 1970, so uh it had a long life there.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, teams that played there, the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1909 to 1970, some team called the Pittsburgh Steelers from 1933 to 1963, and then uh uh some fun teams here, the uh good old Steagles in 1943, in the card pit, which was the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Chicago Cardinals, right?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, in 1944.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: That was the war years teams where they just okay, let's throw a bunch of guys that were not eligible to go to fight the war, let's let 'em play football.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: So good times there.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: And actually Pitt uh Pitt played there from nineteen oh nine after Exposition Park till nineteen twenty four.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that be it Forbes Field predated Pitt Stadium.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: So which is pretty impressive that Pitt played like there for my goodness, what, 15 years, 14 years?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: A fair amount of time.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, the Homestead Grays of the Negro Leagues played there from 1922 to 1939.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And a couple other teams that I'm not familiar with.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Other stuff that the venue hosted, and they hosted a lot of different stuff, like a lot of football games.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of pit football games happened there.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of interesting stuff.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: On July 18th, 1951, the heavyweight boxing championship was held at the stadium.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in seven rounds, Ezra Charles was knocked out by Jersey Joe Walcott, which I've heard of Jersey Joe Walcott, but I couldn't tell you who Ezra Charles is.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I apologize to Ezra Charles and his family.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: So but uh I mean that was that was pretty pretty important.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: That was other stuff.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh big moments that and a lot of big stuff.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Boy, Forbes Field had a really rich history, it really did.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Babe Ruth hit his last three home runs there while he was with the Boston.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Would that have been the Boston Braves?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: So Babe Ruth hit his last three home uh home runs there in 1909.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: The World Series was played there between Detroit and Pittsburgh, and that of course featured um Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner, which um the Pirates won in 1909.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um the 1925 World Series was played there.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: The Pirates won game seven in Forbes Field 9-7 over uh was Walter Johnson the pitcher?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Washington Senators, yeah.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean pretty big time, and I mean I guess they played the 1927 World Series there too.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they had to play at least two games there, even though the Pirates did the Pirates get swept in the one that ended on the wild pitch.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh goodness.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that so that World Series ended at Forbes Field, then I'm if I'm assuming correctly.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe it ended in New York.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't know.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they did the like Yeah, better record or yeah, they did that.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: But there were definitely two World Series games and played in 27.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: The 27th Yankees in all their glory, Murderers Row was definitely hitting.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many cheap home runs they hit in Fort Field, though, so it might have helped out the Pirates there, huh?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um in 1960, uh, I don't know, something had what do you think happened in 1960?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh some guy hit a home run in the ninth inning.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: That would have been uh one Bill Bill uh Mazarowski.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's of course the famous, famous home run.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's uh, you know, it it's just uh it's a very legendary field that you know, even though I never went to a game there, it was long gone before anybody from my family lived in Pittsburgh.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm you know, pretty impressive.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Impressive stuff.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I mean I have fun stuff that I remember.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is obviously just stuff I read about or looked up.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course the Steags and the Card Pits both played there.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the 1951 film Angels in the Outfield was a was filmed there.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: The not the remake, but what was that in the 90s with Danny Glover?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's the one from 1951.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: So um I actually went uh a couple years ago, it might might have been five or six years ago.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: I went to the wall and I listened to game every year on I forget what it's in October, they they play, they have a replay of game seven of the 1960 World Series at because the section of Wall still exists outside of I guess that's Pottsford Hall in in Oakland.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so they play it, and it was it was pretty fun.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: We a lot of fun, you know, sitting there, you know, listening to the to the game, and you know, it was a pretty that that game, we we'll have to do a podcast on game se that game seven someday, even though like it's kind of before our time and we won't have any personal memories of it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: It it definitely is one of the greatest moments in Pittsburgh sports history.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um home plate is on display in Potsford Hall.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: If there is always an urban legend that if they use the real location, it would be the fifth stall, the ladies' restroom.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: But now they say it's in the economic library, so take your truth uh where it lies, I guess, on that one.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's also like I've heard like tales, like there's no like real evidence or written history of this, but there's the stories of Josh Gibson hitting home runs halfway across Oakland.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um any good uh Forbes field there stories there, Tim.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, no personal memories for me, but I know my dad always talks about going to games with his dad at Forbes Field, so he always has really good memories of that place.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it was a whole generation of Pittsburgh baseball fans that that you know that are still here that remember Forbes Field very fondly.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: And and like you said, that having the Mazarowski home run there, that'll it'll live forever because of that one moment.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just one of those iconic things that have happened in Pittsburgh and just gives Pittsburgh an identity.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, I highly recommend it.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: It is fun if you have an afternoon to kill on that occur in that October day.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: Go out there and listen to the uh you know replay of the game.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a lot of fun.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um moving on to places I have attended, and Tim has attended there too.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Pitt Stadium.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Woo! And we talked about the last game and stuff, but I just this is one of my favorite places to watch a football game.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: It always was, probably always will be.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um the background, it was built as a replacement for Forbes Field in 1925.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Pitt wanted its own stadium.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: Pitt and the Steelers both played there for a very long time.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: Its years in service were uh 1925 to 1999.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: So uh both the Pitt and the Steelers moved out of Forbes Field and played there.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: Although I think the Steelers still occasionally played a game at Forbes Field even after that.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: So uh teams that played there that would be your Pittsburgh Panthers of the NCAA, the football, soccer, track and field.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um Carnegie Tech, I guess that's Carnegie Mellon, actually played there from 1929 to 1943.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the Steelers played there in 1942 and then 1958 to 1969 is what I have for them playing there.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: But um the Pittsburgh CLO actually uh was uh was hosted at Pit Stadium from 1946 to 1958.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's where they were before before the Civic Arena was built, uh or the Stanley Theater, the Benedom or Heinz Hall.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: So um big moments that happened at Pitt Stadium.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: All the great games against WVU and Penn State, of course, you know, just just the great moments that there.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um all the Pitt football, I remember watching Curtis Martin there.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um I did not get to watch Dan Marino, but you know, Dan Marino played there, Russ Grimm, Bill Friedelick, Tony Dorsett, but you know, just just all the great players that that played at you know Pitt over the years at Pitt Stadium.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, um the the big Steeler, because the Steelers kind of stunk back then, but there's that YA Tittle picture that's at Pitt Stadium, like of his last game where like he's like blunting and beat up.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: That was actually at Pitt Stadium because I remember when they closed the stadium, that was a picture was in the papers, one of the moments that happened there.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, fun stuff I remember, I remember they didn't have lights until 1985.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: So you couldn't play a night game at Pitt Stadium until 1985, which just seems really odd.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's why maybe they played some of their other game.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because like I think the game in 1976 where they went undefeated and they played Penn State at Three River Stadium.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: They did not play them at Pitt Stadium, probably because they didn't have lights.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: I remember it only really only had two bathrooms.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: I a men's and a women's room.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: So so the lines were really long.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: It really was not it needed updated, and they just decided to rip it down.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: And there's always like there's always a rumor that they I always thought they could have remodeled it, but I've heard people say the foundation wouldn't have supported it or something.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: So who knows?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um the ridiculously uncomfortable metal bench seats, they were like these bench seats that were aluminum and they would get really cold, and if it rained you would freeze.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: So and of course, me and Tim have talked about it many times.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: The last game in Sanity, people ripping up the turf and trying to steal the benches and just general silliness like that.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: But just just so many great I mean, there was definitely you know some not so great memories, the 93, you know, game against West Virginia.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: And but that last game made up for a lot.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I just just a lot of fond memories.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of where I grew up learning about football and just just fun times.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: A lot a lot of good memories to overshadow some of the stuff you said about you know, your back felt like garbage after you sat there for three hours because there was no back on the seat.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, or you know, the bathroom problem and all that.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: But like you said, just a fun place to go on a Saturday in the fall and watch pit.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_03: And after the game, we used to we used to walk down on the field and go out through the um through the one end zone.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember that?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like you know, no, I remember people doing that, but we never did that.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you just walk down on the field to leave.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you'd walk across the field and you'd go past the players who were walking off the field.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it was just it was a I don't know, it was a it was a neat atmosphere.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: It was an on-stadium campus, which we talked about.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's something that a lot of people are upset about not having that today.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so yeah, I agree, Steve.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: I have a lot of fun memory, fond memories of that place too.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think we were very blessed to be there for the for the final game against Notre Dame.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: That was that was, as you said, an experience.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: One of my favorite places to watch a football game, and the sight lines were great.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't like three years where you had to stand up to see an end zone.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like you from anywhere you sat, you could see the whole field.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it wasn't like the Civic Arena or like I don't know, I never went to Ford's.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: I I know Forbes Field they had obstructed view seats with the poles and stuff, but not not at up at stadium.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a bowl and it was simple and the sight lines were great.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: If they just I just really wish they could have updated it and kept it, but yeah, not to be, not to be.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: So uh last but not least on our places that aren't anymore, and this is probably the place I know outside of Forbes Field, I'm not sure like who has more success.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we could debate that a little, but um, Three River Stadium on the background of Three River Stadium, it was a multi-purse purpose stadium built in the late 1960s to replace Forbes Field and to give a home to both the Steelers and the Pirates.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: So they figured out I think the public did, I think there was some public funding that went into Three River Stadium, if I'm not mistaken.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because they had the stadium authority.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um years in service, it went from 1970 to 2000, and teams that played there were Steelers, Pirates, Pitfull Ball, the Maulers, of course.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: Duquesne Dukes, their football, the Duquesne team played there in 1971.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, geez, what what what a list of the this place is legendary.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's uh it hosted seven AFC Championship games, four of which the Steelers won.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: It had the 1974 and 1994 baseball all-star game, and it had the first World Series game in 1970 to be played on Asher Turf.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: It had the first night baseball game in postseason baseball that was Game Four of the 1970 NLCS, so that was the first night baseball game, and the first baseball game was the Pirates losing to the Reds 3-2 on July 16th, 1970.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, other stuff the venue hosted.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: There are so many concerts that happened here.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't even like begin to list them all.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: But uh the first one was Three Dog Night in 1971.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, do you remember the last concert at Three River Stadium?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know who that was, Tim?
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh was it somebody that was big in the year 2000?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: In the year 2000?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, it was uh in sync and uh pink.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so it was somebody that was big in the year 2000.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know if InSync sang bye bye bye.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which would have been appropriate, but um yeah, I mean uh imagine.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: I guess no, Justin no Justin Timberlake was in 98 degrees, uh not in sync, so I don't know.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Joey Fottone was there, I guess.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: Singing, singing away for the last concert.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Billy Joel and Elton John were there in '94.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: I did not go to that Billy Joel and Elton John concert.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: And The Grateful Dead played their last show in Pittsburgh there in 1995 for all you Deadhead fans.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh big moments that happened there besides all the Immaculate Receptions, and of course the Immaculate Reception.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 12-0, Joe Paterno's last game against Pitt, a loss to them in Three River Stadium.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember who caught a touchdown reception in that game?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: It was Rod Rutherford.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, from uh was that Terman?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Terman, John Terman.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 58:31
  unknown: Yep.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: That was the only that was the only 12-0.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: That was the only touchdown because every all the other scores were field goals or maybe there was a safety in there, but that was the only touchdown in the whole game.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Pitt being Penn State in 1976.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: I had mentioned that game a little earlier.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: 24-7 to complete an undefeated season.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: That game was played at three rivers.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Willie Stargil's retirement game.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: I actually went to that game.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: I had the I I think I got rid of it.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: I used to have the program from that game, Willie Stargil's home ran.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, I was there.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: Immaculate Reception.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: You were not there, Tim, but your dad was.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: I remember talking to him about that.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's and yeah, living through that.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's be pretty cool.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, fun stuff I remember.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Cleveland Browns lost 16 straight in three rivers.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't win a game.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: Three River Stadium opened in 1970, and I'm assuming we played the Browns from every year from 1970 to 1986, right?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Twice a year every year, right?
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that yeah, one game at Three River Stadium every year, yes.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: They lost 16 straight.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: They did not win a game until 1986 at Three Rivers Stadium.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_02: So what a what a what a what a house of horrors for the good old Cleveland Browns.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, the Steelers beating the Browns in the 94 playoffs with Belichick on the sidelines.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, remember, remember the um do you remember the painted seats for Willie Stargil's home runs there?
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot about that.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: The 600 level of the upper deck.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know Greg Lluzinski hit one up there too, and I think Bobby Bondia hit one up there too.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: But oh my gosh, like I've often thought of this.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: If Willie Stargil could hit that same home run in PC Park, do you think like thinking, remembering through stadium how high that was up in the 600 level, would that have cleared the river?
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, and not just make it into the river.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think it would have made to the other side of the river?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I that's a good question.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: It definitely would have been in the river, it's just how far into the river it would have been.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: Easily into the river.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean Yeah, it could have made it over to Fort Duquesne Boulevard for all we knew.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've always wondered that.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, because they had there was a seat, because there was ones that hit like the facade of this, and then there was one that hit, and there was actually, wasn't there more than one that because they had one painted, the seat was painted like the number six, because that's where it landed.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Willie Starjoe, man, he that man could hit some home runs.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, fans, of course, throwing snowballs at Cliff Stout when he was with the mount maulers.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: People really didn't like Cliff Stout around here.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh of course, my background, if you're watching it all, I have the huge picture of the huge scoreboard in the outfield.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when they got rid of that.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was so disappointed as a kid.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I love the big scoreboard.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: Then they went to like the little scoreboard.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't, it was still big, but they moved it up to the 600 level.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, there were seats, like if you sat in the because I remember we would sit, we would never be able to see the scoreboard because we always sat in those brown seats uh that they added in the outfield, and you couldn't see the scoreboard from there because it was behind you.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: It a lot of great stuff happened there, and I had a lot of good childhood memory, but like as far as actually watching the game, it was tough to watch a game there.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I remember, do you remember it smelling like cigars and beer?
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just remember like when you walk in, it's like, oh, that's the smell of baseball.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: Or well, I guess it would have been the smell of steeler football for you.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, it that's because you were still allowed to smoke back then in the seats.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it was literally people drinking beer and smoking.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's the reason it smelled that way.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember like I've every once in a while, like if I walk past somebody drinking, I smell that hoppy smell.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like, ooh, I uh three over stadium.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, ooh, yeah, uh pirate game.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: That was my first experience as a as a nine-year-old kid um having cigarette smoke blown in my face for three hours because it again it is it is at a football game, especially at a football game, but a baseball game too, yeah.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: You could just be sitting behind somebody that smoked.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: I sat in this section, my dad had season tickets, and in this section it was just a bunch of old timers.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: They they had, you know, they'd pass around a flask, they'd drink, they'd smoke the whole game, and they wouldn't leave till the very end.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's back when the steel were stunked but you had to stay for the final whistle.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, I do remember that smell.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: It just, yeah, and if you ever catch a whiff, especially not so much the cigars, but like a like a hoppy beer, like it just that hop smell.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just like as soon as it hits your nose, you're like, oh my gosh, that just I guess it's just the way your brain associates smells with memories.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's in my head.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I smell it, I always think of three river stadium, but um the the like I remember even like I sat with you a couple times, like your seats to see the end zone, you had to stand up.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: Remember that?
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just really like I think it's the case of when you try to like split the difference, you end up not pleasing anybody.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: It really wasn't a great place to watch baseball, but it really wasn't a good place to watch football either.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was just weird how that worked out.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and how bad was the turf there?
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, everybody got hurt.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: Rod Woodson, I mean, just oh my goodness, who didn't get hurt on the turf at high uh three river stadium?
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, how about the tarps?
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: Remember the tarps the pirates put up like to because they couldn't because it was like what 50 some thousand and the pirates were lucky if they get 36, 40,000.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: So they put tarps on the upper deck to reduce the uh to reduce attendance for uh for uh you know home games.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, the good old pirates.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I great times.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: Any other great memories of Three River Stadium besides choking on smoke?
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I I you know to to quote Terrence Mann, it's it's the memories are so thick I have to brush them away from my face.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, I mean that's where that's where I just grew up loving sports, right?
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_03: Steelers and Pirates.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I went to when I was a kid.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I mean, man, the the the Steelers games, uh I I gosh, I I couldn't even pick one.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_03: I I I'd probably pick Bill Coward's first season.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_03: They beat the Houston Oilers on a last second missed field goal by Al Del Greco for Houston.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_03: And the whole place just went ballistic because it was like the team stunk for so many years, and here we were winning a huge late season game against a division rival to to eventually clinch the division.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember that game real fondly.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um I remember the uh when the when the All Star game was there in 1994, I went to the home run derby.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: And Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr., who you never got to see back then because they played.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: For American League teams, just bombing home runs into that upper deck.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Just like one after another into the upper deck.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, it was it was very rare that anyone ever hit one up there.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_03: But in the home run derby, they were just that you know, that was very cool to be a part of that.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I just I love that place.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_03: I I was fortunate enough to be there for the last game.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: It was the Steelers versus the the Redskins in in 2000.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and the the you said about the smell.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_03: Anytime I ever hear the um the old Lang Zine version by Guy Lombardo, I always think of Three River Stadium because that's the song they played Three River Stadium out on was that song.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: And everybody walked out on that song.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I I still have seats from Three River Stadium in my house.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh those red seats that folded down.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I still have a piece of that stadium.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I I love that place.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're absolutely right, Steve.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was not the trying to do a trying to do a combination football, baseball stadium left a lot to be desired.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: I really hated how there was like the big right field, left field that was still left over for the steel or games.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: They used to put cars there.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you watch like an 80s steel broadcast, you'll see all these parked cars and it looks really odd.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's like it's like it's like we just let Franco park on the field too so far.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're out of spots in the parking lot, yeah.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: But but I mean, so many um just so many memories there for for us going to games and then just for the teams.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, World Series is and AFC Championship games, and you know, that's when those those two franchises that played there really became you know uh just indebted themselves to the city.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that that stadium, like you said, between that and Ford Field, those are those are probably be uh the two most remembered.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: Even if even if they tear down Heinz Field 20 years from now, I don't know that Heinz Feld will ever have the nostalgic factor that the River Stadium had.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_03: I really don't.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I guess I don't know why.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why Heinz Field has somewhat more of a generic feel, but it really shouldn't because it I I just liked it better when they didn't add the extra seats because it made it so tough to kick a field goal there.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought that was part of the charm of that place was like, okay, you can't just get Justin Tucker can't just wander on the field and kick a 50-yard field goal here.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're a really good field goal kicker, but you ain't kicking a 50-yarder here, dude.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta save that crap for Baltimore, you know?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: I just I I just like I really wish they wouldn't have gotten rid of that.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_02: I wish they would have no offense to Chris Boswell.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: It makes his life tougher, but it makes everybody else's too.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it just I think they lost a lot of their home field advantage with that.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_02: The turf had to be fixed, but and the turf in the river stadium was really bad.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_02: There was always like artificial turf, and it just so many people got hurt there, and you know, it ended people's careers, and they didn't have like a I think they did at one point have a completely uh like dirt infield, but then they went to like they just called them sliding pits, like base pits.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because like the infield was even like turf.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: So like in baseball, like the ball would really get there really fast.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it just is like when it it's like I said, when you try and split the difference, sometimes you don't observe either thing well.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's kind of what happened with Three River Stadium.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: Although you could say, you know, three stadium was kind of generic because like Riverfront in the vet and the vet in Philadelphia, Veterans Stadium looked kind of exactly the same.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_02: So and I uh I mean I I don't know.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's just maybe just because we grew up with it, and I just I still love that big stadium or that big scoreboard where you were really upset when they got rid of that big scoreboard, weren't you doing that?
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Or not that that you're right though, like there was really nothing special about that stadium.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_03: That it's like you said, they literally built it's like if you go to a plan of homes and you're like, oh, there's that that same home four times because it's the same model.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's the Montenegro or something.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Riverfront Stadium, you'd watch a game at the Vet or Riverfront or even Bush Stadium St.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Louis was very similar.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_03: You'd watch those games.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_02: I always thought Bush was a little different because they had those arches.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_03: They had those Yeah, it it was more unique, but it was the same general idea because they had the Cardinals at the two Cardinals football and Cardinals baseball.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_03: But you'd watch a game, especially Riverfront.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you'd watch the game at Riverfront, you you could not tell that it was not Three River Stadium.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so there was really nothing special design-wise about three rivers.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_03: It had those narrow corridors, it had a really um lack of bathroom space.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, people would urinate in the sinks all the time in the men's room because Well, Pitt Stadium only had two, so yeah, what it was a vast improvement over that.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, it it was it was crowded.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_03: It will, you know, Heinz Field's so much the amenities at Heinz are a hundred times better.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: That all being said, it's just the nostalgia factor.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's we grew up on it.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_03: We were kids.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_03: That was our first exposure going to the game, and we loved it.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, speaking of Pitt, we uh we still remember that Pitt, North Carolina game where you know Willie Parker, like so many people that were going to become a key part of the Steelers played in that game, we didn't realize it.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't realize Willie Parker, Jeff Reed, and uh who was the long snapper was in that game too, like against Pitt.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh my goodness, like and that was what 99 when Pitt because Pitt was in be playing stadiums because 2000, it was the year they played three years.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's I guess nostalgia is what it what you make it.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um well, I hope you enjoyed uh today's podcast.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: On uh you remember some of these places if you uh attended there, you can add add to the memories.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh check us out on Twitter, you know, let us know uh you know what your favorite stadium was or was not.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's uh Pittsburgh Sports Memories, and uh check us out on the internet and rate us uh well on whatever podcast service you listen to.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, thanks for listening.