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'Very disturbing' Ret. Army General on fired general reportedly told to drop Kid Rock probe · INSIGHT TODAY

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  Speaker 1: We want to bring in MSNOW Pentagon reporter Priya Sridhar
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, retired U.S. Army General
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Wesley Clark. General Clark, I appreciate your being with us. Priya,
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  Speaker 1: to you, you've been reporting on the conditions for these
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: service members for a bit now. You had a chance
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  Speaker 1: to speak to five of these troops who have expressed
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  Speaker 1: these objections to the way this war is being carried out.
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  Speaker 2: What is the objection? What are they detailing to you
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  Speaker 2: in these conversations?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is so interesting, Peter, especially because
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  Speaker 3: Defense Secretary Hegseth has tried to boast about the number
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  Speaker 3: of recruits coming into the military. But now we're seeing
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  Speaker 3: at least one of these groups saying that they're processing
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  Speaker 3: 150 conscientious objector applications. Another group told us they're getting
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  Speaker 3: over 150. 400 inquiries about how to get out of
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  Speaker 3: the military every single month since this war in Iran started.
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  Speaker 3: And essentially what these service members are telling me, one
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  Speaker 3: in particular that was deployed to Operation Epic Fury, is
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  Speaker 3: that they were being asked to target and bomb civilian infrastructure,
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  Speaker 3: which of course is a violation of international humanitarian law,
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  Speaker 3: according to the Geneva Accords. I also spoke with two
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  Speaker 3: service members who were deployed in support of Operation Southern Spear, which,
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  Speaker 3: of course, is those boat strikes you were talking about.
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  Speaker 3: We've seen about 60 of them over the last year.
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  Speaker 3: Two hundred and ten people were killed. And they basically
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  Speaker 3: told me that they don't feel as though there was
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  Speaker 3: any intelligence or justification to prove that the people on
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  Speaker 3: those boats were, in fact, narco terrorists. And they believe
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  Speaker 3: that in the process of those boat strikes, they perhaps
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  Speaker 3: were killing some innocent civilians. I want you to take
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  Speaker 3: a listen to what one of the leaders of the
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  Speaker 3: groups who's helping these applicants had to say about all
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  Speaker 3: of this.
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  Speaker 4: We talked to people who were true believers, who joined
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  Speaker 4: out of a deep sense of duty and of service
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  Speaker 4: and have gone through this profound, deep, moral exploration of
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  Speaker 4: what they are capable of doing and what they have
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  Speaker 4: seen over the past, their lifetime, but also the past
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  Speaker 4: several years. And in particular, the actions with Southern Spirit
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  Speaker 4: and Epic Fury have caused them to completely change and
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  Speaker 4: their beliefs and what they're able to be part of.
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  Speaker 3: And by the way, Peter, a lot of them also
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  Speaker 3: cited that Manab school bombing where 150 schoolgirls and teachers
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  Speaker 3: were killed.
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  Speaker 2: That was on the first day of the war. Exactly.
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  Speaker 3: And the United States has never claimed responsibility for that.
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  Speaker 3: But I think this surge in civilian deaths is also
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  Speaker 3: something that's incredibly concerning. Another thing I want to point
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  Speaker 3: out really quickly is that these service members aren't afraid
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  Speaker 3: of dying themselves. They're just not.
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  Speaker 2: Behind what's going on.
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  Speaker 3: And they don't feel like they can look themselves in
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  Speaker 3: the mirror when they're killing people and they don't believe
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  Speaker 3: in the cause.
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  Speaker 1: If they're willing to give their lives, they want to
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  Speaker 1: be willing to do it for a cause that they
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  Speaker 1: can stand behind.
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  Speaker 2: General Clark, let me ask you about this.
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  Speaker 1: How unusual is this in your experience, not just that
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  Speaker 1: these service members are objecting, but they're now actively looking
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  Speaker 1: to leave the military?
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  Speaker 5: I'm sure we had these problems during Vietnam. I was
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  Speaker 5: a captain. I was a company commander. I had troops there.
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  Speaker 5: They were drafted. They did their job. But many Americans
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: went to Canada and Others did everything they could to
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  Speaker 5: get out of being drafted, medical feigning, medical injuries, and
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  Speaker 5: things like this. And it was an unpopular war by
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  Speaker 5: the time 1968, 69 rolled around. It wasn't when it started,
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  Speaker 5: by the way. So whenever you have an unpopular war,
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  Speaker 5: and this war in Iraq... Iran does not have the
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  Speaker 5: support of the American people. It does have strong support
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  Speaker 5: in the Republican Party, but by and large, independents and
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  Speaker 5: Democrats don't seem to support it. And so naturally, you're
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  Speaker 5: going to have people who are disaffected in the ranks.
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  Speaker 1: One of the criticisms, of course, is that President Trump,
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  Speaker 1: when this war began, didn't make the case to the
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  Speaker 1: American people about why it was necessary. I also want
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  Speaker 1: to ask you about.
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  Speaker 2: What we're learning.
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  Speaker 1: The Army, I should note, is responding to the New
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  Speaker 1: York Times description of the service as rudderless, saying that
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  Speaker 1: their leaders exemplify excellence and are pushing the mission forward.
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  Speaker 1: But I want to talk to you about some of
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  Speaker 1: this reporting that we've been detailing here today. When Hegstead
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  Speaker 1: took office, there were, I think the number is 10
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: four-star generals.
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  Speaker 2: Now, five. That's the fewest in decades.
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  Speaker 1: How does the military maintain its effectiveness, General Clark, when
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  Speaker 1: it's losing leaders with this kind of institutional knowledge, especially
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  Speaker 1: at a time of war?
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  Speaker 5: Well, at the lower levels, this is not visible. And
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  Speaker 5: so the commanders that battalion, brigade, maybe division level, just
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  Speaker 5: ride through this. They're concerned. They're watching it. They're hearing things.
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  Speaker 5: But they're going to do their duty. And this is
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  Speaker 5: the great strength of the American Armed Forces. And so
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  Speaker 5: when you see these headlines, yes, they're headlines. They're political.
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  Speaker 5: And you've got to put the burden where it belongs.
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  Speaker 5: This is a problem for the United States Congress and
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  Speaker 5: for the White House. The Congress approved Secretary Hegs' extension
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  Speaker 5: despite some concerns about it. President Trump is supporting him.
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  Speaker 5: And so, you know, I have the full faith in
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  Speaker 5: the United States Armed Forces and the people who are
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  Speaker 5: in them. They're going to do the best job they can.
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  Speaker 5: They're going to try to soldier on despite this turbulence
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  Speaker 5: at the top. But you do have to acknowledge that
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  Speaker 5: this is a matter of concern, especially for, let's say,
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  Speaker 5: the flag officers, the one stars and the two stars
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  Speaker 5: out there who see this. And they're very careful about
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  Speaker 5: what they say. They're very careful about what they're doing.
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  Speaker 5: They know that there's some sort of culture war aspect
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  Speaker 5: of this that's making them uncomfortable. But they're going to
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  Speaker 5: do their duty, and they're going to do the best
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  Speaker 5: they can to carry out the orders of the commander-in-chief.
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  Speaker 1: And I think ultimately, obviously, it speaks to the voices
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  Speaker 1: that are in the ear of Secretary Hegseth, who is
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  Speaker 1: clearly one of the voices in the ear of the
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  Speaker 1: president right now. General, The Washington Post also reports about
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  Speaker 1: the Kid Rock investigation.
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  Speaker 2: Folks may remember this.
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  Speaker 1: This was the flyby by a military helicopter outside his
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  Speaker 1: property as they were, you know, looking over the pool there,
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  Speaker 1: the Statue of Liberty building. faux statue there as they
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  Speaker 1: celebrated this moment. The defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, is defending
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  Speaker 1: the general who had, I guess, approved this, saying that
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  Speaker 1: he's the kind of leader that the army needs. But
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  Speaker 1: is this normal for an army's number two officer to
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  Speaker 1: tell the top officer to drop an investigation related to
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  Speaker 1: an ally of the president that they dropped the investigation
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  Speaker 1: into this?
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  Speaker 5: You know, I think what's normal is that something like
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  Speaker 5: this would be investigated because we've had incidents like this before.
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  Speaker 5: We've had soldiers who would steal a tank and drive
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  Speaker 5: it to downtown Colorado Springs or try to get to Denver,
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  Speaker 5: things like this. And it always results in an investigation.
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  Speaker 5: You don't just say, hey, great job. And in this case.
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  Speaker 5: There's some political overtones to it that are very disturbing
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  Speaker 5: because we want our armed forces to be politically neutral.
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  Speaker 5: We don't want them to be out there on one
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  Speaker 5: side or the other. And I think the armed forces
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  Speaker 5: have done a really good job of that on balance
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  Speaker 5: ever since the Vietnam War. We've really tried to be
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  Speaker 5: politically neutral.
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  Speaker 2: You just imagine if something like that continues to happen, right?
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  Speaker 1: You all of a sudden have sort of army helicopters
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  Speaker 1: showing up at birthday parties for allies of the president.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, that's what they were doing there for Kinrock.
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  Speaker 1: Let me ask you, if I can, Priya, about this again.
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  Speaker 1: The USS Abraham Lincoln, as you led the reporting on
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  Speaker 1: all of it right now, the conditions they've had, it's
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  Speaker 1: now on its way back home to San Diego. We
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  Speaker 1: should know you were based during your time with the
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  Speaker 1: Navy in San Diego, Coronado as well. First on MSNOW,
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  Speaker 1: of the two destroyers that were deployed with the carrier there,
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  Speaker 1: There were three.
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  Speaker 2: Two of them are now staying behind right now.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 2: What more do we know.
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  Speaker 1: About this and what's the potential impact? Family members are
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  Speaker 1: speaking out saying, hey, we want our loved ones home, too.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: Peter, one of them actually told us that they find
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  Speaker 3: this disrespectful. Typically, a carrier strike group has an aircraft
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  Speaker 3: carrier and three destroyers. Like you said, each of those
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  Speaker 3: destroyers have about 300 sailors on board and they're tasked
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  Speaker 3: with protecting the carrier. during this deployment. And they face
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  Speaker 3: many of the same supply shortages that we saw on
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  Speaker 3: the carrier food and hygienic products, not in large quantities.
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  Speaker 3: And they also have been facing a lot of morale issues, too.
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  Speaker 3: And we just discovered that the USS Spruance, which is
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  Speaker 3: based out of San Diego, and the USS Murphy, which
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  Speaker 3: is homeported in Hawaii, are not going home. Their deployment
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  Speaker 3: has been extended once again. We already know what that
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  Speaker 3: does to the morale of these sailors. And so their
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  Speaker 3: loved ones simply want them to also be part of
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  Speaker 3: their conversation. And they want people to discuss the fact
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  Speaker 3: that these 600 sailors have essentially been left behind in
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  Speaker 3: the Middle East. We, of course, reached out to the
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  Speaker 3: Department of Defense, who said that this happens sometimes with
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  Speaker 3: carrier strike groups. They don't always stay together. But Navy
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  Speaker 3: leaders at the beginning of this month had said that
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  Speaker 3: they would all come home together.
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  Speaker 1: Still historic record length deployments for so many of these
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  Speaker 1: sailors and Marines, not just sailors who were aboard a
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  Speaker 1: lot of those ships. General Clark, one last question to you,
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  Speaker 1: if I can. ProPublica is reporting about how top commanders
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  Speaker 1: told Pete Hexeth not to cut what is the civilian
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  Speaker 1: protection program. They effectively run around the room and the
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  Speaker 1: folks said to him, yeah, we want to try to
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  Speaker 1: keep it as intact as you can, even if that
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  Speaker 1: requires some cuts.
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  Speaker 2: He got rid of it anyway.
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  Speaker 1: I bring that up because obviously we have seen civilian,
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  Speaker 1: the death toll among civilians rise as a function of
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  Speaker 1: this war, as we were speaking about earlier that first
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  Speaker 1: day where that school was hit, more than 100 children
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  Speaker 1: killed there. Just your takeaway about this, discarding a program
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  Speaker 1: that was designed to limit deaths among civilians.
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  Speaker 5: Well, we know in the military that if you kill
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  Speaker 5: innocent civilians, it's not only wrong, but it also It
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  Speaker 5: discredits the armed forces and it brings a lot of
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  Speaker 5: political pressure. And so it's wrong. It undercuts the mission itself.
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  Speaker 5: So that's why the commanders were speaking up for the
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  Speaker 5: need for this. We were very careful in my campaign
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  Speaker 5: in Kosovo. We tried to screen every target. We looked
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  Speaker 5: at possibility of collateral damage. We had experts who did
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  Speaker 5: it in the joint staff. And that has been beefed
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  Speaker 5: up in the 20-odd years since that time. So I
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: would hope that we'll keep that program in place, and
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  Speaker 5: if it was reduced, we need to put it back
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  Speaker 5: in place. We have to protect innocent civilians as best
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  Speaker 5: we can when we're accomplishing a mission. It's part of
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  Speaker 5: the mission.