Latest / Dam Parenting / Maternity Rights in the Netherlands: What Every International Parent Needs to Know

Transcript

Maternity Rights in the Netherlands: What Every International Parent Needs to Know · Dam Parenting

0:00
Hey, before we dive right in, I just want to take a quick second
0:02
to talk to you directly. This podcast exists because of
0:06
community, because of international parents here in
0:08
the Netherlands. We are all navigating systems
0:11
that were not built for us in mind and in a language that's
0:14
not ours. And in a country that, well,
0:16
doesn't always make it easy. And that can feel incredibly
0:19
isolating. Today's episode is one of those
0:22
in case of emergency break glass kind of important.
0:25
It's really important because it's also practical.
0:29
And honestly, it might be exactly what someone in your
0:31
life needs to hear right now. So here's my ask.
0:34
Share the episode. Drop it in the WhatsApp, post it
0:37
in your Facebook. Send it to the colleague who
0:39
just told you she's expecting or a friend who's been quietly
0:42
worrying about their rights at work.
0:45
Knowledge is the ultimate baby shower gift.
0:47
Be that person for someone. OK, let's get into it.
0:54
Welcome back to the Dan Parenting podcast.
0:56
I am your host, Eva, and I'm happy you're here because, well,
0:59
if you're listening, it really means you're looking for answers
1:02
somewhere other than the Facebook groups with answers
1:04
that usually begin with when I was pregnant or I heard it
1:08
happened to this lady. Well, let's talk about being
1:12
pregnant in the Netherlands. The Dutch system here blessed.
1:15
It's organised, bicycle riding hard.
1:17
It's quite good. I mean, there are real legal
1:19
protections. There is real paid leave,
1:21
there's real legal rights. But it assumes you already know
1:25
how it works. And if you're an international,
1:27
maybe you moved here two years ago or eight years ago.
1:30
Maybe your Dutch is still limited to ordering birches and
1:32
saying lecker. Well, the system hasn't exactly
1:35
rolled out the welcome out of explanations.
1:37
And So what happens? Well, people can panic.
1:40
They post in Reddit at 11:00 at night asking strangers for legal
1:43
advice. They go to work feeling sick,
1:45
wondering if they're allowed to call in.
1:47
They don't know if their temporary contract means they're
1:49
going to lose everything, and they don't know if their medical
1:52
appointments during pregnancy should be paid.
1:54
They really, truly have no idea. And that's not their fault.
1:58
That's a gap. This episode is an updated
2:01
version of one of the very first episodes this podcast ever made.
2:04
Because things change. The law moves, new rules come
2:08
in, and the questions in the Facebook groups, the WhatsApp
2:11
chats, the Reddit, well, they have never stopped.
2:14
So what better thing to do than to come right back to it
2:17
properly and with a specialist? Today's goal is simple.
2:20
Cut through the confusion, reduce the unnecessary anxiety,
2:24
and let you get back to doing what you should be focusing on
2:27
being pregnant. Hopefully some of the time, most
2:29
of the time actually enjoying it.
2:31
I'm joined by Ferlena van Laarhoven, an employment lawyer,
2:34
founder of the Fairline Law, and someone who has made it her
2:37
entire professional mission to make sure that pregnant
2:39
employees and new parents in the Netherlands know their rights.
2:43
Ferlena, welcome to Damn Parenting.
2:45
Thank you and thank you for having me.
2:47
It's really nice to be able to talk about my work for this
2:50
audience. So my name is Ferlina and I'm a
2:52
Dutch employment law specialist. I've been working for
2:55
international companies and international employees for
2:58
about a decade. And last year I founded Fairline
3:01
Law, through which I help employees, but also companies
3:05
throughout their journey from pregnancy to parenthood.
3:08
So all the questions that they come across, maternity leaves,
3:12
unequal treatment situations for the company's policies, how does
3:16
it work? What are the rights of the
3:18
pregnant employees? Yeah.
3:20
Any questions that pop up, it's my.
3:21
I help these clients to go through this.
3:24
Can I actually ask you what would be like a common thing?
3:26
You see, international parents get completely wrong about the
3:29
rights here in the Netherlands. I think some of the rights
3:31
during the pregnancy, so most know that they have maternity
3:35
leave of course, but during the pregnancy you also have rights
3:38
like extra additional paid breaks.
3:40
We get to that later, I think, in this podcast.
3:43
But yeah, if your pregnancy requires it, yeah, you have
3:47
rights to extra breaks or deviations in your workload or
3:51
if you have physical work, there are options to get to adjust
3:56
this during your pregnancy. I think that is something that
3:58
is not commonly known. And also when returning to your
4:01
job after your pregnancy, that you have a right to return to
4:04
your own job and that there cannot be any changes in your
4:08
position or in your pay or in your hours without the consent
4:12
from the. I think those are the points
4:14
that usually are unknown. Let's actually just go where
4:17
most people really start that terrifying moment when you're
4:20
pregnant. And the question hanging in the
4:22
air is really, do I have to tell my boss or when do I have to
4:25
tell them? Because this is going to cause a
4:27
lot of anxiety. So is someone legally required
4:30
to tell their employer they're pregnant First off?
4:33
Well, eventually, yes. So what's the deadline?
4:37
Yeah, yeah, quite some time. So legally you have to tell your
4:41
employer 3 weeks before you start taking your maternity
4:44
leave. And in the Netherlands you can
4:47
take this six weeks prior to your expected due dates.
4:50
You have to go on maternity leave 4 weeks before the
4:53
expected due date. So you can, yeah, be about 7
4:57
months. But most employees of course
4:59
tell their employers earlier, usually also see that you're
5:02
pregnant and it's important to tell them earlier for everything
5:06
that is needed to be arranged. And this actually telling your
5:08
employer earlier is there any legal protection benefits from?
5:13
Yes and no, so that the protection you have against
5:15
dismissal also already applies when they do not know that
5:19
you're pregnant. It even applies when you
5:21
yourself do not know you're pregnant yet.
5:23
But for other things it is important to have them known,
5:25
because if you need any adjustments for your work or if
5:29
for example, night shifts, you're not required to have
5:32
night shifts or to work night shifts.
5:34
And of course, they will have to know that you were pregnant in
5:37
order for you to claim these rights.
5:40
So yes, it is important to inform them up front so that you
5:43
can actually tell them you want to make use of this right
5:46
because you were pregnant. And for those of us who have
5:49
been very anxious in pregnancy, we're not really ready to share
5:52
the news yet. What about if the employer
5:54
suspects you're pregnant? Are they actually allowed to
5:57
ask? No, they may not, no, So you do
6:00
not have to answer that question if it is us.
6:02
This also is also applicable and also important, for example when
6:06
you're not employed yet but they are searching for a job and
6:09
you're in the interview. If you face during interviews,
6:11
they also may not ask you if you are pregnant.
6:14
Now let's talk a little bit about actual working
6:16
environments, because being pregnant, it's not always just
6:19
about paperwork, it's also a physical experience.
6:21
And I think a lot of people don't realize how much their
6:23
employer is actually obligated to do.
6:26
What workplace adjustments are Dutch employers legally required
6:29
to provide for pregnant employees?
6:31
Yes. So it also depends of course
6:33
what the what your job is asking for a new, some people have very
6:36
physical jobs. So they're the adjustments that
6:38
need to be made could be much bigger than if you work at an
6:41
office, but it could be if you standing lifting so heavy work,
6:47
but also night shifts working overtime.
6:49
Those are all possible adjustments need to be made.
6:52
So night shifts and overtime are not required when pregnant.
6:56
And if you have restraints or your company doctor also tells
6:59
you that you have to take it a little bit slower.
7:02
It is important that adjustments are made so that you can have a
7:06
safe working environment during your pregnancy.
7:09
And it's also so in my introduction at the the
7:12
additional paid breaks, so 1/8 of your work day.
7:16
So if you work 8 hours, it would be one hour.
7:19
You can ask to have that as an additional paid break to take
7:22
that rest, like 15 minutes somewhere during the day, 15
7:25
minutes somewhere else during your pregnancy.
7:27
So this is the legal requirement to provide extra rest.
7:31
Breaks, yes, that is the legal requirement and a lot of people
7:34
don't know it. And I think also, I mean, you
7:36
have to be honest, if you don't need it, I would have asked for
7:39
it, but it could of course be that some weeks or some days.
7:42
And also the nausea, that's, that's something that is very,
7:45
very common, especially in the first trimester that employees
7:48
just want a little bit of a slower start in the morning.
7:51
They could ask for that extra additional paid leave to be
7:54
gapped at the beginning of the day that they start a little bit
7:57
later. And that way they can manage
8:00
their day a little bit better. Leading on because pregnancy as
8:03
you say, can make you feel a bit unwell, especially the first
8:06
trimester. And a lot of people really don't
8:08
know that being sick during pregnancy is treated differently
8:10
from regular sick leave. So let's get into this part.
8:13
So if someone is actually too sick to work because of
8:16
pregnancy, so you have severe morning sickness or
8:19
complications or maybe you're on bed rest, is it treated the same
8:22
as normal sick leave or is it different?
8:25
It also depends a little bit on your contract, but normally when
8:28
you're sick you have a continued payment of 70% of your salary,
8:32
unless this is contractually different or by collective labor
8:36
agreement. But if your sickness is related
8:38
to pregnancy, you you always have a right to 100% payment of
8:42
your salary. So that is significant
8:44
difference and something that you have to look into if you if
8:48
you are sick and your sickness is related to pregnancy.
8:51
And this is something I've read a little bit about now, probably
8:54
a lot more than I would have anticipated.
8:56
But if someone is signed off sick during their pregnancy,
9:00
does that actually eat into the maternity leave or how does it
9:03
differentiate there? Yeah.
9:05
So when you are sick during your maternity leave and you started
9:09
your maternity leave six weeks before your expected due date,
9:12
then nothing changes in the duration of your maternity
9:15
leave. But if you plan to go on
9:17
maternity leave 4 weeks before the expected due date and you do
9:20
become sick prior to the four weeks, so within the six weeks
9:24
and the four weeks, the flexibility period, in that
9:27
case, those sick days are seen as maternity leave and they are
9:30
subtracted from the period after you've given birth.
9:35
So it's a little bit complex and I always have to write it down
9:38
to understand it. So if you have that situation,
9:42
it's always good to double check if your maternity leave is
9:44
calculated the right way or ask for advice with your HR for
9:49
example. And during pregnancy related
9:52
sick leave, who's paying the employer the UVE?
9:55
Is it full salary or 70%? So in that case it it depends if
9:59
your sickness is related to pregnancy or not.
10:02
So if it's not, if you have a broken arm or broken leg and
10:05
you're pregnant, it doesn't make a difference and you fall back
10:08
on your contractual sickness payment.
10:11
So to say if your sickness is related to pregnancy, then you
10:15
always get the 100% payment and then the employer could ask for
10:20
reimbursement at the UW, the employee insurance agency.
10:23
First you have to check if the sickness is related to pregnancy
10:27
or not. OK.
10:28
And can the employer pressure someone who is signed off sick
10:32
during pregnancy to come back to?
10:33
Work at all, No. So when you're sick, that's the
10:37
general rules of sickness in the Netherlands are always regulated
10:40
also with a company doctor. So in that case, company doctor
10:43
would need to see the employee and the advice of the company
10:47
doctor is leading. So if they say that employee
10:50
cannot return or return for just a couple of hours or start
10:54
reintegrating, that is the yeah, the final say and they have to
10:57
follow it. Or if you have an option for to
11:00
ask for a second opinion somewhere else.
11:02
But a company doctor is is normally the the one bleeding in
11:05
the advice. And can I ask, after giving
11:08
birth, and if you're on maternity leave and you become
11:11
unwell through either physical or mental illness, if you end up
11:16
with PPDPPA or something else, what happens at the end of
11:20
maternity leave if someone is still unwell and they're
11:23
actually supposed to return to work?
11:25
Well, when you're not able to return to to work after your
11:29
maternity leave has come to an end, you call in sick and again
11:33
the company doctor will be the one to advise on possible
11:37
reintegration or a prolonged period of sickness before
11:40
returning to work. Let's talk about the actual
11:42
leave itself, I guess, because there are a lot of moving parts
11:45
here when it comes to it, I guess.
11:47
So there's timing in paperwork and, well, what happens when
11:50
things don't really go to plan. Can you walk us through how the
11:53
16 weeks actually work? I mean how it's split between
11:56
the before and the after and how much flexibility there is.
11:59
Yes. So in Dutchie we call it
12:01
stronger stops for Loaf and the fallings for loaf.
12:04
So giving birth leave and pregnancy leave.
12:07
But for now in this podcast, I will call it maternity leave
12:10
before or after giving birth to the child.
12:12
So you have 16 weeks in total. And as I mentioned before, you
12:16
can go on leave six weeks before the expected due dates, but you
12:20
have have to go on the four weeks before the expected due
12:23
date. And depending on when you choose
12:25
to go on leave, the remaining part of the 16 weeks will be
12:28
afterwards. So that would be the maternity
12:30
leave. After giving birth, you always
12:33
have a right to 16 weeks. It cannot become shorter.
12:36
It can in some circumstances become longer.
12:40
And that is the case if you, for example, take the six weeks
12:44
upfront and your child is born after the expected due date.
12:48
You could have in total under period than 16 weeks and that is
12:53
because you always need to have a minimum of 10 weeks after
12:56
giving birth. So 16 weeks is something that is
12:59
fixed and the 10 weeks after giving birth is something that
13:02
is fixed. So in that way there there is a
13:04
possibility if your child is born in week 41 that you have in
13:08
fact 17 weeks. So total maternity leave.
13:11
That's good to hear and on that note, if someone's baby comes
13:14
early and they haven't used all their pre birth leave, what
13:18
happens to those weeks? Yes, they are then moved to the
13:21
befullings for love leave. So you keep having a right on
13:25
the 16 weeks. So if your child is born earlier
13:28
than, your maternity leave before becomes maternity leave
13:31
after. And to apply for this maternity
13:33
leave, what do we have to do? Who do we have to apply for is
13:36
reform and how long do we have to give them notice?
13:39
This is something that is organized by the employer.
13:42
So what you do need to do when you tell your employer that
13:45
you're pregnant is also give the certificate of your midwife or
13:48
from the hospital to prove that you you are pregnant and the
13:52
expected due date is also written on that statement.
13:55
And with that, the maternity leave is requested from the UWV.
14:01
And what happens if the baby arrives very early, like
14:04
premature and maybe even hospitalized in the NICU?
14:08
How does that affect the maternity leave clock?
14:10
So honestly, this is a very specific situation and if the
14:14
baby is hospitalized or not or for a longer period or not could
14:18
make the the leave longer. But it's very, yeah, it's, it's
14:21
very on a one to one basis, you have to know that there might be
14:25
additional rights to longer leave.
14:27
So it's important to ask your employer or the EWV how this
14:31
works in your specific situation.
14:33
And now going into another element of being very
14:36
individualized because everyone has something different, it's
14:39
the contracts. So there's permanent and
14:41
temporary and then there's part times and ZZ pays.
14:44
So let's look at permanent. If someone has a permanent
14:47
contract, what does that mean for their job security when
14:50
they're pregnant? Or on leave, yes.
14:51
So when you have a fixture or an indefinite contract, that is
14:54
the, of course, the best contract you can have while
14:57
being pregnant because you were protected against dismissal.
14:59
So during your pregnancy, during your maternity leave, but also
15:03
six weeks after returning from maternity leave.
15:06
So that is protection that goes on even beyond the 16 weeks of
15:11
of leave. And during that time, there are
15:14
no options in general, no options to to dismiss the the
15:18
pregnant employee. And what if your contract is
15:20
temporary and it even ends while you're pregnant or while you're
15:24
on leave? Do you lose all the rights?
15:26
Yes. So when you have a temporary
15:28
contract by operation of laws, let's say that the contract will
15:32
end, the company does not have to give a reason for not
15:34
renewing the contract. And in that case, even while
15:38
you're pregnant or while you want maternity, believe your
15:41
contract will stop and at that moment you will receive
15:44
compensation from the UWV for your maternity leave period.
15:48
So you are still financially covered, but you are unemployed
15:52
and will search for a new job. However, in the case that you
15:56
were promised a contract renewal and you have the the idea that
16:02
the contract is now not being renewed because of your
16:05
pregnancy, it is important to be very alert at that stage because
16:09
it could be that they we are treating you unequally, a form
16:13
of discrimination because they are now not renewing it anymore
16:16
even though they had promised it.
16:17
In that case, it is important to also seek legal advice to see if
16:22
there is an option to either reclaim your contract so that
16:26
the contract will be renewed, or claim a compensation.
16:30
And when we look at part time work, does the 16 weeks change
16:33
or is it just the same as everyone else?
16:35
It is the same as everyone else, yes.
16:38
So. Sweet.
16:39
Yeah. So freelancers then.
16:43
This is a huge topic. Can you give us a brief
16:47
overview? How does maternity leave
16:48
actually work for someone who has no employer?
16:51
Yeah. So when you're assessed A payer,
16:53
you still have a right to 16 weeks of maternity leave, but
16:56
there are a lot of different nuances in comparison to when
16:59
you have an employer. So it is it could be an entire
17:03
new episode to talk about your rights as it's a payer in the
17:06
Netherlands regards to payment, what to do, what to Yeah, how it
17:10
works. OK, noted episode potential
17:13
there for the future if anyone wants that.
17:15
I want to go somewhere that doesn't always usually get
17:16
covered, but I really think it needs to because pregnancy loss
17:20
happens and when it does, the last thing anyone should have to
17:23
navigate alone is the legal rights.
17:25
So what are someone's legal rights if they experience a
17:29
miscarriage? And what does the Dutch law
17:31
actually say? With a miscarriage, yes, that's
17:33
a very situation you don't want to be in.
17:35
Some situations, of course, a miscarriage can be in such an
17:39
early stage that your employer did not even know you were
17:41
pregnant. Sometimes it's at a later stage
17:44
and your company is aware. So that is already a nuance.
17:47
I think that is important because when having a
17:49
miscarriage and your employer is not aware, there's of course the
17:52
option to tell them and to see what the what the options are to
17:56
get some time off to go through it.
17:59
And if they are aware, then of course it's a little bit easier
18:02
to discuss the options because by law, if the miscarriage is
18:06
before the 24 weeks, there is nothing regulated in the law to
18:10
receive any form of leave. So normally or normally often an
18:14
employee is calls in sick to get the time to process it and to to
18:20
recover. Also here could be that your
18:22
contract or your policy or a collective labor agreement does
18:25
have forms of leave that they apply in such cases.
18:28
But it is also important to inform your company that you're
18:31
going through this. And last year there was a
18:33
petition that was brought up in front of the government because
18:36
they gathered enough signatures to be able to apply the
18:39
grievance policy. Basically that was, as you say,
18:42
from 24 weeks that they were trying to make it inclusive for
18:44
miscarriages at any stage. I heard Amsterdam initially just
18:49
put it straight into policy here and then Interact has followed
18:52
shortly after. Is that something that we know
18:54
anything more about that we can address here?
18:56
Well, at this point of time, I have not heard that other cities
19:00
have followed or companies, specific companies.
19:04
But there are, of course, as I mentioned, collective labor
19:07
agreements that often give more than the legal standard.
19:10
So this is, of course, something that is now initiated.
19:13
And the big cities, yeah, are taking the lead here.
19:17
And hopefully other cities, but mostly other companies are going
19:20
to follow in their footsteps because it's, of course, very
19:23
important that even if you have a miscarriage before 24 weeks,
19:27
it's very odd to have this line at 24 weeks that you either get
19:32
60 weeks of maternity leave or get nothing.
19:34
And I can imagine that a miscarriage at 5 weeks is
19:37
different than a miscarriage at 23 weeks.
19:39
But it would be great if it's regulated a little bit better
19:41
that you can actually ask for a certain leaf that is provided
19:45
for by the company. And then continuing on with
19:47
that, what changes legally if a pregnancy ends after 24 weeks or
19:52
ends up with a still birth? Yeah, in this case the 16 weeks
19:55
remain the same, the 16 weeks of maternity leave.
19:58
So legally after 24 weeks your still birth or your pregnancy,
20:03
your born child is considered the same as if you were to give
20:06
birth on 36 or 14 weeks. So that makes.
20:09
Is it a legal birth in that sense?
20:12
And is there any separate bereavement leave for pregnancy
20:15
loss on top of sick leave or maternity rights?
20:18
Or does everything just fold into the category of maternity?
20:22
Yes, it all falls into the category of maternity, at least
20:25
by law. But again here if your company
20:28
policies or your collective labor agreement say otherwise,
20:32
could be that you have additional leave for the
20:34
bereavement. And it is of course, a very
20:37
sensitive topic and very emotional topic.
20:39
So always, yeah, have this discussion with your employer to
20:42
see what is possible. Because often employers also
20:45
prefer you not being out on sick leave.
20:48
But perhaps they give you some time off to the process this
20:52
this situation and they are able to give you a some type of other
20:56
leave instead. Is there currently anything in
20:58
Dutch law that protects someone from dismissal or negative
21:01
treatment at work after a pregnancy?
21:02
Loss, Not so much as the protection you get when you are
21:06
pregnant or enjoying your maternity leave or six weeks
21:09
after. There is not a article in the
21:11
law which gives you that protection.
21:13
However, there are articles in the law where you have to act
21:17
recently as an employer or as an act of good employership.
21:21
That's that's how we call it. And if you are dismissed after a
21:25
miscarriage or still birth, and you can prove that this is
21:28
connected to that, of course you do have a ground to to claim
21:32
compensation on the basis of that article.
21:35
OK, moving on, let's talk about when things aren't really going
21:39
right due to documentation and how that goes.
21:42
Because knowing your rights and theory is one thing, but knowing
21:44
what to actually do when an employer steps over the line is
21:48
actually another thing entirely. So what are the most common ways
21:51
employers, even genuine, well-intentioned ones,
21:55
accidentally get things wrong? Yes, that's a good question.
21:57
Because I think there are a lot of employers who might treat
22:01
pregnant employee or someone returning to work unequally due
22:06
to lack of knowledge. That is one thing.
22:08
They don't know the exact right. So therefore they are just
22:12
making decisions and they're not know.
22:14
They do not know that they are perhaps well, treating someone
22:19
unequally on the basis of the law and other things.
22:22
Another example that I wanted to raise is that they, they might
22:26
even think that they're, they are doing the right thing.
22:30
So what I hear a lot in my practice is that they could, for
22:34
example, say, oh, you've just become a parent and you, you
22:37
have so much going on at home. And therefore, we think that
22:40
this training that we wanted to enroll you into or this
22:44
promotion that was promised to you, it might not be a good time
22:47
at this moment to do that because you have a newborn at
22:51
home. And even though that might be
22:53
from a genuine thought or idea that they have, it can still be
22:58
unequal treatment. Because if that promotion was
23:01
promised to you and you still want to do that, it is not up to
23:04
them to point out that it might not be the correct timing.
23:07
And if someone is actually trying to build a case, for
23:10
example, like keeping records because they feel like
23:12
something's wrong, what documentation should they be
23:14
gathering from day one? I think any notes that you have
23:18
with your manager, with HR about your performance, that is very
23:22
important. But also if you've been working
23:24
at a company for a longer period of time could be performance
23:27
improvement plans, positive reviews that you have maybe just
23:30
emails where they mention, OK, yeah, you're doing really well.
23:34
We are thinking about this promotion or anything with yeah,
23:38
compliments about how you're fulfilling your job are very
23:42
important to to gather at the moment that they might not be
23:46
renewing your contract or withholding A promotion for you.
23:49
And also policies usually or sometimes they're very, you can
23:53
trace them very easily on the Internet or it has been sent to
23:57
you, but always make a copy of the policies because there might
24:00
be relevant information in there for your case as well.
24:03
And it of course also depends on your case what what you need.
24:06
Those are things that are good together and have.
24:09
And if someone wants to formally challenge how they've been
24:12
treated, what is the timeline for filing a complaint and where
24:15
do they go? That's a very specific question,
24:17
but with the very part answer I think are very yeah, it really
24:21
depends on on the situation. So in some cases you would need
24:24
to go to court. For example, if you are
24:27
dismissed during your probationary period and you have
24:30
the feeling that it is related to your pregnancy at that
24:33
moment, you have two months after determination of your
24:36
contracts to ask for an annulment of the dismissal at
24:39
the District Court. So it's a very short time and
24:42
this two months come back quite regularly in different
24:45
scenarios. But for some other things for
24:47
the promotion, there's not really a a time frame.
24:50
And there I would say the moment that that happens to take action
24:53
as soon as possible. Because if you leave it for a
24:55
long time, it it might also be seen as sort of acceptance of a
25:00
decision that was made. And it's good to follow up
25:03
rapidly in that case, but it depends on the situation.
25:07
And for, well, honestly, when I think of lawyers and legal
25:10
stuff, it just means a lot of money to me.
25:13
Are there free advisory bodies or resources here in the
25:15
Netherlands that our international parents?
25:17
Access, yes and no. There's a lot of information
25:20
online, lots of free information, but the difficulty
25:22
there is that it might not be up to date anymore.
25:25
Also to GTP has used a lot of course lately, but also there
25:28
it's very important to know that the Dutch does change
25:32
jurisprudence or case law makes it makes the answers different
25:36
throughout time as well. So be careful with that.
25:39
But you can find a lot through midwives.
25:41
They might have a lot of information to access to
25:44
dislocate. That's something in the
25:45
Netherlands that gives access to free information that is
25:49
hopefully also checked, which I think it is.
25:51
And sometimes also for advisory you can turn to the really slow
25:54
cats. But it also depends on the
25:56
income you have. So for low income employees,
25:59
they can give free advice, but if your income is too high you
26:03
will be referred to other legal specialists to assist you.
26:08
So if someone out there is feeling something's not right,
26:10
they're feeling they're being treated differently because of
26:13
their pregnancy, what are the first practical steps they
26:16
should be taking? As my would be to to gather the
26:18
information as we discussed in one of the questions before, so
26:22
that you actually have everything documented and at
26:25
hand. And again, the next step I would
26:27
take is to discuss it with your manager because sometimes or
26:31
quite often, it could also be a misinterpretation,
26:34
miscommunication, a lack of knowledge.
26:36
As I mentioned earlier that the company doesn't know that they
26:38
are treating you unequally. So have this conversation
26:41
because if you would reach out to a legal specialist right
26:44
away, you could also escalate the situation.
26:46
So have this, this conversation, but do not give in.
26:49
So it's more that you point out what is bothering you or what
26:53
decision at which emotional or other effect on you and really
26:57
listen to their answer and make sure to to make notes or ask for
27:01
notes. And that from there, if you
27:03
still feel that you need to take more action, you can you can
27:06
take it further. I would first, yeah, have the
27:09
discussion and be transparent about how it affects you.
27:12
OK, this is being quite a long episode but I just have a very
27:16
quick one. This is what people always ask.
27:18
Go ahead and you quickly walk us through what our partners, the
27:22
non birthing partners are entitled to.
27:24
Yes. So fortunately partners here in
27:25
the Netherlands have given have received a little bit more time
27:28
to spend with their newborns. In the past, there was only two
27:31
days after birth and now it is 6 weeks in total.
27:35
The first week is against full payment but needs to be taken
27:38
within the first four weeks after birth and after that they
27:41
have 5 weeks that they can take and needs to be taken within the
27:45
six months after birth. And these five weeks are paid at
27:49
a lower rate. So it's 70% of the last earned
27:52
salary. A good side note also in regards
27:55
to maternity leave that we discussed earlier in this
27:58
episode is that when you receive 100% or the 70%.
28:03
It is important to note that if your income is higher than the
28:06
maximum daily wage that it is capped at a certain point.
28:10
So it could be that you receive less income during your leave
28:14
than you are used to, but that really depends on the the height
28:17
of your salary. Good to know.
28:19
So this is a huge topic, so we're going to just round this
28:23
up here with just one question. Wait for it, listeners, but if
28:26
you had just had one piece of advice to give to an
28:28
international parent who just found out they're pregnant and
28:30
have no idea where to start, what would it be?
28:33
Yes. So if you, if you just found out
28:35
that you're pregnant, you're of course very excited about
28:38
everything and full of questions.
28:40
But important to know is that in the Netherlands you are well
28:43
protected. There are various law that
28:45
protect you against unequal treatment, various forms of
28:49
leaf, as we discussed during this episode.
28:51
And yeah, we've got your back. And should you have any
28:54
questions during this first period of your pregnancy, you
28:57
can also always turn to me. And Speaking of which, how do we
29:01
find you? You can find me through
29:03
Instagram, LinkedIn. I have my own website so
29:06
www.fairlinelaw.nl which is in Dutch and in English.
29:11
My Instagram page is also in Dutch and English and LinkedIn
29:15
as well. You can find my phone number
29:17
there as well, e-mail addresses info at Fairline law dot NL and
29:21
I would be very happy to talk to you with any questions you might
29:25
have related to pregnancy and work in the Netherlands.
29:28
Verlena, thank you so much, genuinely.
29:29
And what about those partners questions that we had just now
29:33
and we only had one question there.
29:34
Well, we are delighted to have Verlena come back to us again to
29:38
discuss the partners aspect of maternity and paternity leave.
29:41
If you have any questions, why don't you head over to
29:43
Instagram, Spotify, or just hit us up with an e-mail at Damn
29:46
Parenting Podcast at gmail.com and we might be able to add in
29:49
your question to the episode. Thank you again for Elena for
29:52
joining us here on Dan Parenting Podcasts.