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The Death of Digital: Why Physical Mail is Crushing Ads · The TalkBlock Show's Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I always joke, uh, you know, I've been doing this for over 20 years now, and it's the industry's been dying my entire time.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, basically that candidate came to us and said, like, why would I do direct mail?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's too expensive, like, I can do this on digital or or through different fundraising channels.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when um you know, we all witnessed and watched on repeat uh the second plane the second plane hitting the second tower.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: They've been caught time after time after time either misleading people or uh deceptively editing or you know not running stories that are negative to uh you know the president's political opponent.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the show.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Varim, and today my guest is Jeff Krujena.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff is the CEO of JMK Victory Agency, he's a top fundraising expert and strategist.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: For over 20 years, he helped raise over 100 million dollars.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he uses direct mail to win big campaigns.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And today we will talk about marketing, donor psychology, and building strong businesses.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff, welcome to the show.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me, Vadim.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we can start with um my first question is um walk me through your uh 9-11 pivot story.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: How does a computer science student uh end up in political fundraising?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So uh like so many uh in the kind of late 90s, early 2000s, thought uh you know, I'd I'd pursue a career in computer science and tech and go work for Microsoft or or I guess this was before Google, but you know, in that industry.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um that Tuesday morning I was on campus uh at uh Stony Rook University, about an hour outside New York City, um, ground zero.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, the world and uh my life changed uh forever that day.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, from you know walking from class to class to you know sensing something was going on.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of before smartphones.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Some people had cell phones, uh, so definitely, you know, not not what it is today.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, finally asked someone what was going on.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: They had told me that that uh planes had hit the the twin towers in the city.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we all kind of congregated over at the uh student activity center where the you know nearest TVs were, and that's when um you know we all witnessed and watched on repeat uh the second plane, yeah, the second plane hitting the second tower.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time I didn't really you know understand or really realize what was going on, you know.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you you actually seen the seen the the the strike, right?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so watching uh watching it on television, and um we were close enough um as a as a campus to where the university hospital was uh a major kind of burn unit uh center.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So all the rest of that day hearing helicopters going back and forth from the city to to the hospital there.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um it was really during that that time where, you know, I I now know that it was God's hand in all of it, but um shifted my focus from computer science to uh you know, pretty quickly switching to political science and getting uh very much involved both locally and nationally with um conservative movement organizations, Republican political campaigns, really, you know, what we think of now as you know the America First movement.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but back then it was sort of like a you know that spirit of of September 12th of we're all one united country, we're gonna go get, you know, get payback on these bad guys and make sure that it never happens again.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And from from that point on, I was on a mission to support patriotic American causes.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that sort of that ultimately, you know, through relationships I had made as a as a college student led me to uh my first job in the Washington, DC area where I am still to this day, you know, 20 plus years later.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh specifically direct mail fundraising.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So postal uh physical postal mail that you get in your mailbox asking donors to contribute to uh charitable causes, political campaigns, what have you.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all with that same sort of core conviction of supporting uh my country and um you know the the Christian conservative values that uh that I was founded upon.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, I understood.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and you as I mentioned, you use direct mail for all these campaigns or yes, so so um for for the last uh 20 years it's been uh good old-fashioned postal mail.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So physical mail you're getting you know at your mailbox uh every day.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um have great partners that that work on the on the digital side, so your email and your text message fundraising, social media, what have you.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really been that physical one-to-one communication where it's as my business partner likes to call it, appointment viewing of you know, where, you know, if I asked you to find an email from three days ago, it would take you take you a few minutes.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you got a letter from someone you were expecting or or someone you want to hear from, you would, you know, sit down with your cup of coffee or or whatever, and you'd you'd sit there and and you know pour over the words on the on the paper there.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so that's uh that's how do you think it worked?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you raise millions?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is it just because it's how to say like it's more more right there, more accessible?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, it especially in this day and age where you have sort of the the media's either censorship or big tech companies uh you know blocking uh certain or you know deplatforming uh Republican.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that's actually good stuff.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it you can't censor the mailbox.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and um, you know, that's while costs have continued to increase, like cost of everything, um the the competition inside the mailbox has actually gone down, which has led to increased uh response rates, basically, you know, being more effective.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And especially in this kind of digital age of you know, AI, or I guess President Trump has called it super intelligence, so SI, um, you know, you get the audience building and targeting um to be more uh cost effective when you're able to using now it's called AI, but it was machine learning or large language models, it's all one and the same, just kind of evolution there.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: But those sort of uh you know, big data uh ability to fine-tune who we're who we're sending those letters out to to make sure that uh, you know, because ultimately there's two sides to any fundraising campaign or just marketing campaign, uh, whether it's digital or in physical mail, and that's kind of the donor acquisition or prospecting.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's the what what we call the house file.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So those repeat donors that you're continuing to have that conversation with month over month and giving them updates of what their$25, you know, has done, and then asking them to upgrade or become sustain sustainer givers uh month over month.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really, you know, yes, that one-to-one communication where you know by trade I was I was taught as a as a copywriter to you know write write like you're you know explaining it to your grandma back at home because that's disproportionately the the target audience for kind of grassroots fundraising, which is just broadly defined as folks giving less than$100.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um so with that being said, when you look at whether it's politicians or or you know well-known figures giving speeches, there's usually it's it's all marketing, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where they have you know uh something to to say, uh, you know, a rally chant that that the audience is gonna resonate with and remember.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's you know, true to this day, to where you know, whether it's uh and you know, we're recording this uh you know a handful of days out from our elections here in in the states, and um, yeah, so everyone's mailbox is filled with all sorts of uh political mail.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, on the on the tail end of that, you're getting into the end of your giving for charities.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um all to say, you know, while the tech side has has its advantages and speed, um, there's also that extra level of censorship or you know, deliverability where um, and we saw this you know happen really over these last 10 years where um you know before Elon Musk uh bought Twitter Now X, um you know, where certain people were either shadow banned or their uh their reach of their message was getting kind of governed down.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Direct mail is is the ultimate you know democratic uh yeah response to that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Of you know, we can reach um millions of of Americans with you know long-form uh compelling copy for you know, whether it's a a charity, a advocacy organization, a political campaign, or even uh you know, a for-profit business trying to reach those same you know target donors or consumers that are are values driven, it's all kind of all inclusive there.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Understood.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, Jeff, so if we look at campaigns today, uh what is the biggest mistake you see them make?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, uh, you know, if we think in terms of um whether it's just I I'll take it as just general marketing, uh, like a marketing campaign.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, really knowing your audience, and I always, you know, use the two examples of one, the the the old Michael Jordan line of Republicans buy sneakers too, of he never wanted to engage in the political because he didn't want to turn anybody off from buying you know his product that he was endorsing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas you saw, you know, it wasn't that long ago, you know, a couple years ago, where Bud Light, um, you know, the beer company decided to that woke uh thing to go completely woke and get a transgender influencer to um endorse their their beer.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know, no matter how great my creative is, if we're not, you know, if we're not knowledgeable and we don't know who we're mailing it out to, what the audience is, and and same with whether you're talking, you know, basketball sneakers or you know, beer, it's you have to know your audience.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in the in the Bud Light example, they paid uh a hefty price for uh going woke.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and you know, they've you know since tried to rehab their image because, you know, again, it's the the market research of who's their core demographic is not a transgender influencer.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, it's the you know, Joe Six Pack, you know, middle America blue-collar job uh guy that doesn't even want to talk politics.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: He just wants to relax and have a beer.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, thinking back to, you know, the the ad campaigns that Budweiser was known for were all those sort of Americana hardworking or or you know, just that again, the dirty jobs, blue-collar, you know, hardworking grit um uh pro-America.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's where you know the biggest mistake I think is is people thinking they're you know gonna outsmart their audience um or you know try to manipulate it somehow when reality is you have to know what you're saying and who you're saying it to because if you have the right message but you're sending it to the wrong crowd, um, it's not going to work.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna fall on deaf ears.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I guess same thing happened to Jaguar a year or two two years ago when they they also went there with that woke uh uh ad.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't even they didn't even they didn't even show a car in the ad.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: It just right.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, even even you know, and I had for years the Gillette, you know, razors for for for men shaving, they they went woke.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what like how why?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it boggles my mind because I'm like, yeah, they had a great advertising campaign, and and why you know I had been a longtime customer was I I still remember getting you know a Mach 3 razor mailed to me on my 18th birthday, and that was a great direct marketing kind of technique of like, yeah, the you know, the handle itself isn't the the uh the expensive part, but it's all the kind of cartridge refills.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they they had me for a good you know 20-year run there of uh just paying for for that before, again, a great marketing campaign of I don't know if you remember the uh the dollar shave club uh became you know a viral video, and you could you know subscribe to to get you know uh same kind of you know mock three type razor uh you know month in a monthly subscription.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that was you know kind of the the renegade marketing of it of like everyone's frustrated that you're paying so much for something, like there's gotta be a you know more effective, easier way, and the direct to consumer kind of brand played on a viral video, and they made, I'm sure, hundreds of millions of dollars off of that.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Jeff, can you give me a direct mail campaign uh example?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: The one that absolutely crashed it.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: What and what made it work?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: What made people to respond?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean the the one that that is more uh timely now, I think, is um again of a direct mail skeptic, uh uh political campaign that we're still working for to this day.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, basically that candidate came to us and said, like, why would I do direct mail?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's too expensive, like I can do this on digital or or through different fundraising channels.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you certainly you know should fundraise on all channels because you want to have a, you know, now the the kind of buzzword is omni-channel approach.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Before it was called multi-channel, but you want to be talking to to your donor base across all mediums, whether it's you know now podcasting or television or radio or what have you.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: But um from that point, uh from that skeptic, you know, they gave us a shot to do a you know a one one-shot test mailing to see what the return is.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if the return was good, then they would they would basically give us uh give us a chance to to run the whole program.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So from an initial you know,$10,000 investment to to hit you know uh 40,000 homes, we were able to take from just that first mailing, again, knowing the audience, knowing the dynamics of that race, the the political you know atmosphere as it was, we were able to take that initial mailing to 40,000 homes, um, telling that candidate's story and who they're who he was supporting and who was supporting him, and turn that into uh that that one campaign alone turned that$10,000 into over$50,000 of revenue.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, we were off to the races uh because we had proven ourselves to not just like write compelling copy, but be able to target the right audiences and ultimately, you know, turn that initial investment and and you know, uh more than quadruple the return there.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And from from that point forward, you know, we gained their trust and we're able to kind of grow it from from that point forward to where you know we've raised nearly a million dollars for that campaign.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're uh I'm pretty confident we're gonna we're we're gonna hit that one million dollar threshold of of gross dollars raised, uh, which is a lot.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think back to some of the first campaigns I worked on uh 25 years ago.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if if you would raise you know half of that, that was a competitive uh race.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But now, you know, a million dollars uh is kind of the you know the the threshold to the barrier to entry of of you know the media markets and running a fully functioning uh top-tier race.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, going from that initial uh$10,000 investment to you know a million dollars of of um gross revenue raised into the campaign to help them do all the things that we see political campaigns do.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: But uh that one that one's more recent, so that definitely uh is front of mind uh today for sure.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, cool, wonderful.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And Jeff, you you walked away from a safe tag job and uh and you chose uh you chose this um, I would say dying industry of direct mail campaigns, and probably everyone doubted you, or or at least many people were saying were saying it probably won't work or something.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So how how did you keep your inner faith strong?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I I always joke, uh, you know, I've been doing this for over 20 years now, and it's the industry's been dying my entire time, uh, including starting my own company uh three and a half years ago at this point.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: But really, you know, ultimately it's it's um, and I was reflecting uh upon this as as we were kind of exchanging emails um earlier this week, and it was it's really you know, understanding like this company and and you know my life is is really the Lord's, and this has been my the calling on my life is to use the talents and gifts that I've been blessed with to write copy and to to engineer these kind of direct marketing campaigns uh for the the individuals and and causes that I care about.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: But really knowing that I'm just a steward of all of this, the the company that that I've built, um, the clients that I serve um and just sort of staying grounded that way of you know, all of this on earth is temporary.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, while you know, we need to be you know cognizant and and work as though you're working for the Lord.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's always been a uh a favorite Bible verse.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, before we hit record, you know, talking about obviously my very Polish last name and and you being from Ukraine, that sort of Eastern European, you know, strong principled pro-freedom work ethic, you know, it was ingrained in me by you know uh my Polish grandparents that uh fled uh during World War II as as children or teenagers in my grandfather's case.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, seeing that you know play out over the years of of um you know coming to America to seek freedom and to to you know build a a life here.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, now that um you know in my 40s looking back upon all of that, it was really that kind of God's hand in all of it, of you know, the quest for freedom, the wonders that is the Western world, um, especially here in America, and you know, the some of the uh you know political fights that we're engaged in nowadays uh definitely have just reaffirmed my passion and and um just calling to stay in this fight and and uh you know defeat some of these radical leftists that are uh trying to tear down uh all the things that you know my grandparents fled um you know uh at the time it was Nazi Germany um you know invading Poland.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, just to think that you know, kids these days, while you know 9-11 played such a major role in my story, um, you know, thinking I have a 14, almost 15-year-old son, like that was very real for me as an 18-year-old back then, uh, you know, 25 years ago.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: But now it's you know something in a history book that's not as uh you know tangible to the next generation of you know the we'd all you know wear hats of the never forget, and you know, like so many you know historical tragedies or or just awful you know periods in in in you know human history, it's you know, we're doomed to repeat uh some of those uh lapses.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but for those of us that you know where it's it's real and tangible, you know, it's a you know incumbent upon us to to continue that that fight and and share that story and make sure that no one forgets um that you know the the you know as President Reagan would call it, the shining city upon a hill of of American greatness and and freedom and all that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's in a nutshell kind of that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: core kind of Christian values uh upbringing uh is is what's kept me in this in this industry that is not dying although everyone seems to like to say that yeah yeah awesome yeah cool uh let's talk about patriot economy what is this and why why should business owners care about it sure so so we touched on it a little bit earlier when we're talking about you know companies going woke and not knowing their audiences so it's really an outgrowth or a response to that where you're seeing a bunch of brands out there whether it's you know think black rifle coffee or or here we have Patriot Mobile um all sorts of uh values aligned companies so offering you know products or services like you know cell phones or you know coffee or name name your you know consumable there's going to be a a um a business that's you know either veteran owned has a patriotic mission uh gives a portion of the proceeds to Christian conservative or patriotic causes so you know what what I you know have referred to as the patriot economy is really that of you know the folks that are tired of of uh you know the whole go woke go broke um you know but thinking you know growing up in a like non-political uh household or or you know as a kid never really you know paid much attention to any of that uh I couldn't tell you you know the political leanings of my you know the sneakers I was wearing or the you know the whatever clothes I had on but now it's it's become uh all the rage of every company feels like they need to kind of weigh in and a lot of the the bigger bigger you know Fortune 500 or or you know well known brands have gone woke and that kind of patriot economy has risen as a you know in a parallel way of okay well I will pay a little bit extra for you know black rifle coffee because I want to support a a veteran owned company instead of going to Starbucks or or something like that.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's yeah that's what I was getting at.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah yeah makes sense yeah good uh Jeff so a little bit about that secret psychology of donors you raised uh over a hundred million dollars so far so you it's a lot of money what moves human hearts to give their money in in your opinion what what's the secret?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you know as much as we want to say like it's the you know the self-interest or the logic it's really that emotional you know the storytelling so you know instead of saying you know if you elect this person you're gonna save on taxes it's you know and that that's certainly part of any campaign but when you think of you know a product or a uh you know a nonprofit charity that's you know helping you know homeless veterans or you know abandoned animals or anything like that it's you know telling that compelling story of you know one veteran that was helped or you know these you know animals that were rescued and and put up for adoption and you know that sort of you know that the compelling one-to-one you know what drives people to go you know buy a product is the same especially to go you know give and I always use the you know uh although I'm obviously very much a Republican consultant and and work uh you know on that side of the aisle there's the great um kind of comparison in 2008 of the Barack Obama versus Hillary Clinton primary and Obama and his team were revolutionary on the on the low dollar fundraising side where they were able to get folks giving you know two three four five dollars uh to to win a chance to have uh lunch with at the time Senator Obama whereas Hillary was running on her husband's credentials and and sort of all the favors that they were owed and getting you know massive checks from from their mega donors.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really that kind of grassroots audience that toppled the the Clinton machine back in 2008 and you know an obscure you know at the time you know he went from state senator to U.S.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: senator to defeating the the you know uh the heir apparent to on the Democrat Party uh to becoming president of the United States and it was all kind of that grassroots momentum from getting those you know two dollar donors in the door so for for what I do it's really been that same same idea of like you're you're helping grow and build this grassroots movement that now you know present with President Trump in the White House it's it's been labeled MAGA but it's been there you know if you're thinking back to you know and I've I've used you know Reagan references uh you know all throughout of that kind of it's morning in America again like Reagan also used the you know make America great again kind of slogan and it's that sort of emotional tie to like in in political campaigns into love of country and a comparison right now of you know free market and capitalism versus kind of socialist communist um policies but yeah it's it's that emotion and the ability to tell a story that that hooks people in that keeps them coming back and keeps them uh you know engaged and giving month over month very generously yeah so um you run a business based on uh christian faith as you as you mentioned before so how do you how do you stay true to your values without uh turning people away because sometimes people are different right so yeah and I I think you know and I've I've worked at at large companies and had plenty of you know customer service jobs all you know from from age 14 you know uh on through but it's really like you know that those experiences but also at the end of the day it's it's you know you're trying to be true to the values that that you have as an individual uh so you know being kind and generous and and caring for your staff and employees that that count on on you and your company but also you know being true to those values and and what clients we choose to work with because and plenty of of people have asked you know could you write you know uh direct mail for a left-wing cause or Democrat campaign and I'm like yes and no yes formulaically like I know the formula of what makes an effective uh fundraising appeal but no in that that to my earlier point on that emotion and the kind of core conviction especially on that kind of human intelligence emotional intelligence if I don't you know passionately believe in the cause or the candidate or or you know the client in general like that's going to show in in the end product so that's you know where where it's you know made it a a tougher business decision are those kind of you know the the gray area of like well they're not maybe the best uh but they're they're good enough and you know over my career I've seen you know where the well the compromising there like comes back to bite you in the end because you know either you know they're they're ultimately not a good fit or they're gonna you know the client I'll stiff you for for lots of money or you know really it's it's not values aligned and that's you know the the biggest I think win for uh for myself and and my company uh along with my business partner is staying true to those kind of core convictions and that's you know in in a lot of businesses and ours is no different you know 99.9% of the clients that we serve uh we got through relationships and referrals and you know just again running uh a business very ethically and uh staying you know tied to those values and and you know treating our clients as though they are you know part of our family which they are uh is you know all important for for myself and and all of us that work for JMK.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah yeah yeah so in the in the modern uh business culture uh I would say standing for your values can cost you money contracts or some reputation right uh have you ever have you have you ever lost a big big deal because you refuse to compromise?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly I mean there's definitely been uh clients that um you know we've decided to terminate uh early on or not not pursue um you know especially on the on the political campaign side like where you know I've seen my fair share of you know the smoke-filled backrooms of you know the the hypocrite politician who says one thing on TV but acts completely different.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there's been I'm sure you know I'm I'm trying to think of a good example there but there's been a handful throughout my career where you know because we you know won't compromise on those core values of um you know of which you know our company is grounded um you know we've taken ourselves out of the running more often than not uh than necessarily you know lost out um because we can certainly you know uh you know we you know ultimately it would be a compromise of our our values to you know pursue a client that we know is not a good fit but could be great for the bottom line but choosing to you know uh intentionally pursue the clients that we do um you know there you know we've we've been able to kind of weather the storms and and to have those great relationships moving on forward so it wouldn't have wouldn't change it.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah yeah so in your contract there is a like also it includes like termination policy right if if something goes wrong it's yeah I mean it's it's all you know none of us are lawyers but uh there's uh always the kind of the the standard either 30 or 90 day kind of termination notice uh you know legalese language in there but you know ultimately the way that we operate is you know very transparent of if you're not you know approving the the copy that we're we're putting together you know we're not charging you for for things that aren't uh aren't going out in the mail so that's on the front end those sort of you know vetting conversations where we're vetting the client and they're vetting us of you know is this going to be a good fit?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like the kind of creative copywriting and and the graphic design that we're coming up with.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know so much goes in on the front end uh you know in those early conversations with a prospective client that um you know when it comes down to it you know we're we're in lockstep like ultimately you know the donors that are are getting these letters in the mail will be the ultimate decider of of is this creative good or not?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: As much as I you know may love the creative or the client you know absolutely you know gives us praise and and you know is head over heels for whatever it is that we're doing you know at the end of the day the the direct mail fundraising is you know extremely measurable you know exactly how much you spent to to put that mail out and then you're tracking it you know day by day of of how many donations and donors are coming in uh off every every piece of mail.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Jeff if if for example someone wants to build an agency like yours uh what is the what is the thing single most important thing to do to do first to to do it right?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sure I think I mean knowing what your mission and your kind of like what you're setting out to do whether that's obviously you know for me in the in the direct marketing direct mail space having spent years like other other agencies uh kind of learning the craft but really like having that kind of guiding light to knowing what you're doing whether that's you know a plumbing company or you know a marketing company or you know you're you know running a coffee shop it's you know that customer experience the you know putting the the age old you know put the customer first uh is very true and in this case like yes not just the customer but um also the donor because we're trying to bring that donor into into the organization or into the campaign or or be a consumer of the product and it's you know again being a good steward of of um our finances but also the client's finances and ultimately the donor who's making a sacrificial donation uh to support the cause or candidate is you know paramount and you know same thing where you see why you know brick and mortar businesses fail it's because yeah and others succeed and I always you know joke uh just down the road here you've got a Chick-fil-A and then a Taco Bell right next to it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: You walk into the Chick-fil-a and everyone's you know all the staff are super friendly.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's my pleasure how can I serve you?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: How can I help you?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the food's great.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you know if you've got a hankering for Taco Bell and you walk in there you feel like you ruin their day by just walking in the into the building and you know that that culture that the the Kathy family has ingrained and and built uh Chick-fil-A you know over these you know uh handful of decades that they've they've really kind of built up and being yes they're they're a Christian company and closed on Sunday and all that and that you know makes uh makes me feel even better for supporting it but at the end of the day it's that customer service quality of food quality of product that keeps people coming back for more so you know whether it's my business of of those those relationships with clients of you know knowing their their spouse's name or their kids' names or you know being a part of big life events it's you know that relationship uh with your customer consumer what have you is really you know paramount um and yeah I mean if you think of of your daily life like you're way more likely to pay you know pay patronage to businesses that like you've got friends that you feel like you have friends there they you know have a great product they serve you well uh and you know it's it's you know all that kind of relationship building at the end of it yeah yeah yeah yeah uh what does um mainstream media get wrong about um about uh conservative five fundraising what truth they do not see I was gonna jokingly say everything but uh yeah uh you know I think there's certainly inherent biases there especially among the the mainstream media and that's why I think you see you know this rise of of and you know whether it's on the show on social media certainly we're you know recording for a podcast here but you see whether it's on YouTube or uh you know Rumble is the kind of you know free speech platform video uh uh alternative to to YouTube although I mean I post all all my content on both um I think you're seeing you know people's eyes are opened in that like you can you know grab your phone and uh kind of you know find your find the truth out for yourself instead of you know back to when it was just three television networks or even you know back to when you know CNN first got started 25 30 years ago.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know I think you know the the Trump era that we've all lived in in over these last 10 years has shown you know he's you know the the guy who's gonna brand everything.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: So the you know the the term fake news uh for the mainstream media has stuck because they've been caught time after time after time either misleading people or uh deceptively editing or you know not running stories that are negative to uh you know the president's political opponents and um you know when it comes to conservative fundraising I think you see a lot of the well oh it's all just you know grift or the money's not going where you say it's going.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like not that there's not you know bad actors in every business and every industry really but there and you see it whether it's at a Trump rally or you know just that kind of you know everyday uh consumer out there that you run into at the grocery store you know those core you know we want safe school or good school safe streets like those kind of core non-negotiables that we all can agree on versus kind of the the polarized environment that the media wants to feed because that you know drives eyeballs and and uh viewership is the kind of the juicy gossip and the and the if it bleeds it leads sort of uh mentality that's you know that's been a part of of mainstream media for for too long yeah yeah yeah so Jeff you are a father leader and agency owner um and when your career is over one day uh what is the one lesson you you want your children to remember well uh yeah no that's that's a fantastic question I think you know um you know earlier when I was talking about my grandfather and and and grandmother and and that kind of uh the you know as children coming to America for in search of freedom um really it's that yes the blue collar work ethic of working for the Lord um but also that fight for you know our freedom and ability to worship and to and to be kind of good stewards of everything we've we've been fortunate and and you know really blessed with you know the the old you know first world problems of you know oh like gas is you know a little bit more expensive or whatever I'm like yeah but you've been so privileged to have been born in America and you know all these you know wonderful things that you know so many of us take for granted and just having that um you know world you know worldview but also the you know acknowledgement of you know generations past of you know I hope I've done a good job kind of you know telling the history and and and leading by example and and all the things that you want to you know do and be as a father as a business owner uh as a as a Christian and you know at the end of the day like you know to see you know my son and you know eventually grandchildren great grandchildren like continuing that you know that work ethic and kind of fighting for uh the same things that you know past generations have whether that's you know my folks or my grandparents um you know just uh you know having that kind of core conviction and drive yep wonderful wonderful yeah yeah and um last last question for today Jeff uh looking at this year what makes you worry and uh what gives you big hope for for future sure I think I'll I'll start with the hope I mean you know ultimately knowing that no matter who's you know in power in Washington that that God is on the throne that you know we're going to survive no matter if it's a good election day bad election day for my side of the aisle um you know that ultimately gives me hope that you know our country has been through so many uh you know bad times or or you know divided times and we've persevered all all you know by the grace of God.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing that you know God is the really the one on the throne and while you know right now I like the person in the White House you know that wasn't true a hair you know a couple years ago when Biden was there.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: But you know it's the same thing of I'm not going to give up.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna continue to fight uh for the causes and support the the missions of of the organizations that we we work for.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um that that's ultimately what gives me my my biggest hope.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: My fear obviously is is you know the the here and now of the you know we're you know a week a little bit more than a week out from the election.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you know historical trends are whatever party controls the White House generally loses uh loses seats in in Congress.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so you know that generally would mean that you know the Republicans will will lose ground in the House and Senate and uh this new crop of of candidates out there uh that are running like uh James Talarico in Texas or um uh Al Sayed in in Michigan are these really radical far left socialist um and proudly socialist not even hiding it anymore campaigning uh for these things uh my fear would be that you know they kind of take over uh both houses of Congress and then it becomes kind of a um just a battle for the next two years of of uh or the last two years of Trump's presidency and and uh you know for the future of what that means for uh for both my my side of the political movement but also this battle for you know the the America that uh my grandparents uh immigrated to um and that we want to keep yeah yeah yeah totally agree yeah okay and um uh just a little question how can uh our listeners viewers uh find you contact you and maybe book book a con consulting session or something?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sure so uh you know uh although you were able to very easily pronounce my very Polish last name of Khrushchena um I've uh yeah I've got the URL get jeffk.com uh where folks can find me the easiest and book uh book a uh free 30-minute strategy session with me or my company is jmk victory so jmk victory.com we're on all the you know all the standard social media platforms too um either as jmk victory or if you want to try to you know try to spell my last name uh you'll easily find me as probably the only Jeff Krishna kind of out there especially uh doing what I do but uh thank you so much uh Vadim this has been a wonderful conversation and and uh look forward to you know keeping it going yeah yeah for sure thank you Jeff for uh joining me today for sharing all this information with me and my audience and yeah wish you all the best in your business and uh everything you do and yep see you later and our audience everybody take care see you next time bye