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Leticia Carvahlo -The New Leader of the International Seabed Authority: What it Means for Deep Sea Mining · How To Protect The Ocean

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  Brazilian oceanographer Leticia Carvalho has now been named
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  officially as the next Secretary General of the International Seabed
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  Authority, the ISA, after winning the election. That
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  could change the course of deep sea mining. So if you're interested
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  in finding out what's going to happen to deep sea mining going
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  forward as of January 2025, then this is the episode that
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  you're going to want to watch and listen to here on the
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  How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's start the show. Hey,
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  everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm
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  your host, Andrew Lewin. This is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how
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  you can speak up for the ocean, what you can do to live for a better ocean by
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  taking action. And I am proud and happy
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  to let you know that Leticia Carvalho, the Brazilian
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  oceanographer, won the election to become the next
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  Secretary General of the International Seabed Authority by
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  quite a number. She was able to get 79 votes, while
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  her predecessor, 64-year-old Michael Lodge, who served
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  as the ISA Secretary General for the last two terms, received
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  34 votes, so just destroying him, doubling the
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  votes. Very happy to say that. Carvalho,
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  who's 50 years old, currently works as an international civil
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  servant for the United Nations Environment Program,
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  the UNEP, was declared the winner on August 2nd,
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  and this is actually the time that we actually published the last episode on
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  August 2nd, or two episodes ago, where I discussed why
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  Leticia should be involved in this the
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  isa who should be the leader she's an oceanographer she understands that
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  transparency is really important and so she's
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  going to begin her leadership on january 2025 january
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  1st 2025 she will be the first woman the first oceanographer and
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  the first representative from latin america to serve in
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  this position. Huge, huge news
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  coming out of the ISA meetings that just wrapped up
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  in Jamaica on August 2nd. What's
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  interesting is commercial scale deep sea mining hasn't begun
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  anywhere. But there's a huge push from mining
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  companies to start to explore and start to rapidly ramp
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  up this type of activity. And Lodge, he's
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  been accused of kind of supporting the mining companies and ramping it up and
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  also not being as transparent as the ISA should
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  be. Now the ISA should be a body, is designed to be
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  a body that's in the middle. It's supposed to promote deep
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  sea mining, but also in a sustainable manner,
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  but also protect the ocean and protect the marine habitats and protect humankind. So
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  there's two, as I mentioned in the last episode, I
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  discussed this in Friday's episode or two episodes ago, there's sort
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  of two combating forces a lot of times, which really
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  requires one thing. And Lechisa Carvalho has been running
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  her election campaign, if you will, on this, which is transparency. You
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  have to be transparent. As an international seabed authority,
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  you have to be transparent in how all these activities
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  are conducted. And so the way Lodge did it
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  wasn't that great. In Mongabay News they mentioned, during his time
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  as Secretary General between 2016 and 2024, Lodge
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  pushed for the finalization of the mining code as a set of
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  rules that would allow deep sea mining exploration to begin. However, This
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  is really important. This code was not ultimately finished under
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  his tenure. Lodge has also been accused of advocating
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  for mining companies, which goes against the ISA Secretariat's
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  duty for remaining neutral and keeping the
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  ISA's process and procedures unnecessarily opaque. More
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  recently, Lodge has also been embroiled in allegations that he misused
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  agency funds and that one of his supporters tried to bribe
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  Cavallo to drop out
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  of the election in exchange for another high-level position within the ISA.
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  Lodge, however, has refuted all of these claims. They're just alleged. It
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  hasn't happened. They haven't seen evidence that provides this. However, you
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  know, he's out. so whatever happens to him it doesn't matter
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  anymore from you know going forward with deep sea mining his
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  uh code mining code wasn't put forth there's you
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  know it was really interesting over the last you know 10 years or
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  less you know like 2016 i remember talking
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  to dr andrew thaler and i'm like Where's this deep sea mining going? And
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  he's like, hey, man, he's like, in 2030, we might see some action. But before
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  that, we probably won't see some action. And that was really it. There were a lot of
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  countries who were just like, we have a moratorium on deep sea mining, there's and that's
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  still going. And there's 32 countries who continue to support that
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  moratorium, even with the changes that have been happening recently. And,
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  you know, last five years or so, you started to see large
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  really push to create this mining code. And it
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  can never really be agreed upon by the end of these meetings that happen every year
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  in Kingston, Jamaica, every summer in July. And so, you
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  know, there's it's always been weird. It's like, why all of a sudden this push? You
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  know, we're always taking a precautionary approach. We're always taking a conservative approach.
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  So why all of a sudden this push? And then you start to hear allegations that,
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  hey, you know, Lodge might be more on the mining company side than
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  on the environment side and on the people side. Because that's
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  what really happens here. When we start to talk about deep sea
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  mining or any kind of issue that relates to the ocean,
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  there are people who pay for this. These are the people in the countries where
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  the mining is happening or anything that's happening that's going to change the ocean
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  dynamics. We have no idea how deep sea mining is
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  going to change the ocean. In fact, last week I also talked
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  about this dark oxygen where you saw the nodules that
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  are wanting to be mined actually produce a high enough voltage
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  to separate oxygen from the hydrogen
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  modules in water to produce more oxygen at the bottom of
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  the ocean. And we're starting to see that when we start to see more
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  oxygen, we start to see more biodiverse areas and habitats in
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  the deep sea, which we're not expecting to see. Maybe you see a
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  special area like hydrothermal vents, but that's a completely different
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  podcast. That's a completely different habitat. To see it where you see
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  actual oxygen that's being produced, and you're seeing more biodiverse areas,
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  more animals in there, now we're talking about a really
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  important discovery. and we're just getting into that. All of
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  a sudden, if we start to mine those areas, then we're going to see that disappearance of
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  oxygen. We're going to see the disappearance of those animals. But
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  we also don't know what's going to happen to those areas when
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  you take all those nodules out, or you disturb the bottom by
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  digging into the bottom. We have no
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  idea. And the countries that are closest to that will pay for that
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  price. And right now, we just don't know where the money.
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  I doubt deep sea mine is going to happen off the coast of developed countries. It's
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  probably going to happen off the coast of developing countries, who they don't necessarily
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  have a huge say. Or other countries can
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  bribe them to say, hey, you know what? Let's start in your area, and
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  we'll give you a school, or we'll build all these things for
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  you. That's what happens in a lot of these international agreements, especially when it comes down
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  to the environment. I remember, you know, stories from the International
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  Whaling Commission, the IWC, where you see countries like Japan and
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  Norway and Iceland in the past have, you know, supported
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  other countries, smaller countries, who may not have the same resources
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  they do, and started to, all of a sudden, there's schools and buildings that
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  are being built on those, on these small island countries, and all,
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  to get votes, and they'll vote the same way they want at the IWC when
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  they talked about the moratorium on whaling. This happens
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  all the time. This is not something that's new. But to have a
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  system that is, you know, like an international
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  body, authority to say, hey, we're going to try and keep things as
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  transparent as possible. We want to make sure that everybody knows
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  what's going on. We're not going to sway one side
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  or the other or one way or the other. And we're just going to help to
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  get this process going. Can we do deep sea mining and be
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  sustainable? Will this help mankind? We don't know.
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  At this point, we just don't know if that's going to happen. And there's really no
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  rush in doing that. Now, what's interesting is one mining company in
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  Canada, Canadian based The Metals Company, really interesting name
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  called TMC. As you can see, I'm a little biased, but has
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  repeatedly expressed its intention to apply for an exploitation license later
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  this year, even before the mining code was finished. But
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  that's not gonna happen because Cavarlo has said that she believes granting
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  such a license before regulations are in place would be
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  a source of litigation. So advocates for deep sea
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  mining say the seabed minerals are needed to fulfill metal shortages
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  and provide materials for renewable energy technologies such as electric car
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  batteries. Yet critics say deep sea minerals are
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  unnecessary for such technologies and that deep sea mining could irreparably
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  damage the seabed and overall marine environment, which they
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  are correct. Like I said, the fact that
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  we don't know what's gonna happen, the fact that we are running into this
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  blindly is scaring the hell out of all of us. This
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  is something that we cannot... and will not
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  put up with. We've done this before. We did this
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  with a lot of other technologies. Fossil fuels, we do it all the
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  time. We run into situations, mining we did, like, you
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  know, mining on land. And, you know, was
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  it tar sands, right? Digging for tar sands. And the
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  extra, like, the waste that is produced from mining and
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  from tar sand oil and gas production
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  is horrible. You see these wastewater ponds that have been awful.
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  We've regulated that in Canada and the US. I'm
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  not sure about other countries. I'm sure about other countries. They've probably done very similar
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  ones where they've put in regulations for mining. But the
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  tar sands kind of just, they just get to do whatever they want, it seems.
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  Where companies are coming in from other countries, they're
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  providing jobs, short-term jobs, destroying our environment, destroying
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  the global environment. and then putting out wastewater pans and not even
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  cleaning them up, which costs like hundreds of millions of dollars of cleaning up, and
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  they're not made to clean them up. This
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  is ridiculous. This is something that we can't, this is
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  what happens when we rush into things for short-term money. And
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  it just goes off all the time. This is something
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  that we need to stop. And so coming at a new
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  leadership with an oceanographer from
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  Brazil, from Latin America, to start saying, hey, we need to
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  be transparent. We need to stay true to the mandate of
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  the ISA. We need to stay true to that. We need to be as transparent as
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  possible. We need to hear all sides. We need to discuss. There's
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  a lot of things that we need to discuss, and we're not even close to finishing these
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  mining regulations. Why rush into it? And why issue permits
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  when we don't have to? And I think that's a really great way of
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  moving things forward. I think it's really important. And
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  Matt Gianni, who's the co-founder of the Deep Sea Conservation Coalition, thinks
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  the same thing, too. It's a group of NGOs that campaign against deep sea
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  mining. He said he was surprised by the number of country delegates that
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  came to this year's ISA meeting or sent in their proxy votes
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  for the election, and also that such a large majority voted for
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  Carvalho. We don't always get these types of wins. This is a big win.
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  This is something that we should celebrate. He said, this is a historic moment
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  for the ISA, and we congratulate Leticia Carvalho and
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  the government of Brazil for her election. The ISA has
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  an opportunity to champion a new way forward for sound ocean
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  governance that prioritizes the precautionary principle and
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  secures the health of the deep sea and its benefits for
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  future generations. Now, with that said, this is a
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  win. It does not mean that we aren't going to be doing
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  deep sea mining in any future. It doesn't mean that
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  this is the end of the deep sea mining campaign. Letitia
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  Carvalho has a duty to be transparent, but she also has
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  a duty to balance that, making sure that we're protecting the environment,
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  but also making sure that deep sea mining is the right thing to do
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  going forward and it'll be done properly and making sure those regulations are
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  in place. So going in with a precautionary approach is very good, but
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  let's be honest, the ISA is there. At some
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  point it might and will probably put out,
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  you know, permits for deep sea mining. So
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  this will be interesting to see what's going to happen forward. I have a lot more
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  confidence in the ISA now that Letitia Carvalho is
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  the leader. This is something that I really like, you should like
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  as well. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. You know, there's so
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  many ways that you can get a hold of me. You can leave a comment on this YouTube video
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  that you're watching, or if you're not watching on YouTube, you can go to YouTube, subscribe,
• 12:56
  and you can leave a comment, or leave a comment if you don't subscribe, it's up to
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  you. You can hit me up on Spotify, leave a comment or
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  answer any of the polls that I have on there. If I put up a poll, may
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  or may not, we'll see. I don't want to do polls every time, but I'd love to hear your comments if
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  you're allowed to leave a comment. If you can't find the comments, I'd love for
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  you to get a hold of me. Just hit me up on Instagram at howtoprotecttheocean,
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  just DM me. I'd love to hear if you can actually do that on Spotify
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  if you're a Spotify listener. It's something new that's coming out. I don't know
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  the full ways of doing it. I can't do it, but I'm not a subscriber,
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  so maybe it's only for people subscribed, but I'm still trying to figure all that out. Trying
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  to do the whole podcasting thing and trying to figure out the new technology. So
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  I'd love to hear your feedback on that. and the show, hit
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  me up on Instagram at How to Protect the Ocean. And thank you
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  so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast,
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  especially one where we get to discuss such a great win for
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  the issue of deep sea mining. Thank you so much for listening this
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  episode of the How to Protect the Ocean. I am your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great