Latest / She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young / Liz Brennan - Kununurra personality, former WA Young Achiever of the Year and sooooo much more!

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Liz Brennan - Kununurra personality, former WA Young Achiever of the Year and sooooo much more! · She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to She Said It Out Loud, where real women share real stories without sugarcoating a thing.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Emma Young, and I'll bring you on filtered conversations with ambitious women who faced challenges, made bold moves, and learned a lot along the way.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: You'll get real takeaways, honest lessons, and stories that you're gonna relate to.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Righto, let's get started.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the podcast, Liz.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I have come to Kananara.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to have you on the podcast.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually the first proper time that we've met.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: We've met at uh Kimley Economic Forum a few times, definitely events over the last couple of years.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: But today we're gonna be sitting here opposite each other.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the first time having an actual decent conversation.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I know my listeners today are gonna walk away from our chat wondering how you do all the things because you have so many things on your plate.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I do tend to gravitate towards women that are doing like seven or eight things in their life.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: But for anyone meeting you for the first time, who is Elizabeth Brennan and what occupies your world at the moment?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so who am I?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was uh born and bred in the WA wheat belt.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up on a farming, pretty typical broadacre farm uh northeast of Perth.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: We diversified into pigs about 40 years ago and citrus about 25 years ago because my family recognised that climate change was a thing even decades ago.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I've kind of been steeped in that as a you know f farming family business.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we sold our home farm, our broadacre farm and our piggery about five years ago, which catalysed my move to Cunanara.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been in town for almost four years now.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what's occupying my time, whilst I am based here and 6743 is my post postcode rather, I do travel a lot.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I caught fifth uh 43 flights last year.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I've been home, I think, now for the longest.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a six-week stint, and I've just bought a house in Connonara.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I am finding those kind of rituals and rhythms of life this last six or so weeks, and you know, being invited to adopted family dinners and and I love this, I love the change of seasons because of my farming background.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I really kind of acknowledge and appreciate how the seasons change.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So dragonfly season now, um, which is fantastic.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then like so I guess that's on a personal front, and then on a professional front, I'm doing some really cool work working with an organization and develop economic development organization to have them be more impactful on the smell of an oily brag, which I love those kinds of um projects because you have to get really, when you have constrained resources, you have to get really creative and work with what you've got and the amazing humans that are working with the organisation.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they can really be impactful in places like Canberra where the dis decisions about them are often made.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So do you often go to Canberra then?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I used to quite a bit.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not so much anymore.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I only probably have an annual trip now, sometimes a couple of years, depending on the work.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I'm familiar with the uh halls of Parliament House, shall we say?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So straight away, you you know, you've got a reputation for fitting a lot into your life.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: We can already hear that even just from your intro.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: You are, you know, a graduate of the Australian Institute of Company Directors and the Australian Rural Leadership Programme.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: You've completed a Bachelor of Business and a Master of Food Security, and you've been on several different boards in Kinara and across the country.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So currently, right now, it's including the East Kimberly Chamber of Commerce and Reconciliation Australia.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So look, this does sound like, you know, rather than me reading out your CV, I want to understand what connects all of those things.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned I grew up in a wheat belt town, Wangan Hills, Wangekata is the Nugar name.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: At one point we had the highest volunteers per capita in anywhere in the state.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up in the community of self-starters and can-do people.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of have this part of my DNA is putting your hand up to do something about it rather than pointing the finger of blame.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're gonna do that.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I do say yes to things, but it's very intentional and kind of I'm because I can see things are possible, I think about the kind of impact that I want to create.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing is I grew up, as I mentioned, my family are quite, I don't want to say progressive, but kind of um think broadly.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I, even as a young person, we had my brother and sister would would laugh about this now.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: We had family meetings around the dinner table.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was twofold.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: One, my mum has had really has had mental health challenges, so it was a lot talking a lot about how we support her through those challenges, but also we were very heavily involved in kind of understanding the farming business, so we're involved in farm budgets, which were definitely boring when we were kids, but it helped us understand how things work and how the farm works and how decisions we make on farm imp impact, you know, for example, the tonnages and you know, where they get exported to.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we came became quite worldly pretty early on.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, god, yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, so I think saying yes to things, but it's kind of it comes from this place of thinking deeply and kind of understanding that if, you know, there's no point pointing pointing the finger of blame if you're not willing to put your hand up to do something about it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Holy cow.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's still a lot of things to do.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Part of thinking, when have you had the time to get all of these things done and to gain this level of experience?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting you say that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think because I've been, I'm a years ago, over a decade ago, I won an award for the amount of volunteering I do.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, I probably spend a day of my week on voluntary projects now, um, even in my business, because that's where often don't have resources, communities don't have resources to do the things, but they're really wicked challenges.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's in governance or, you know, in I used to deliver Meals on Wheels to elderly in the community, it's kind of where I see impact and creating a sense of community, like the things that I invest my time in.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I've got a lot of experience, especially working with volunteer organizations, because you see the best and worst of people, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: People are motivated by very different things.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I've lived in Papua New Guinea as a volunteer, and I find volunteering and what motivates, like the motivating factors of people volunteering really interesting.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're working with volunteers, you get exposed, you you can't help but kind of be exposed to very humans.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of the stuff I do is around humans and leadership in those spaces.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: You get to understand how people tick.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you're working on really gnarly projects, you have a skill set that you wouldn't have otherwise.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think regional women get to do that, especially because there are just so many things you can get involved in in real regional remote communities.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the passion in your voice.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now, I'm watching you and you are just so incredibly passionate.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of my favourite sayings, actually.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love people.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's I I love yarning with people, talking about the thing they love and the way their eyes light up.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I just, yeah, that's what makes me hum.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now you co-founded Ag Dots 10 years ago.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think that you were creating then and what has it actually become now?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when it first started, um, well, when I first started working for myself, it wasn't Ag Dots back then.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was honestly because I was approached to work back in Papua New Guinea and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I started my own consulting.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, it was I had no idea what I was doing.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: I lost so much money in tax and you know, like I've so it was really what I was creating back then was to take advantage of an opportunity to go back and work in a place that I really loved and was on a project around food security.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm across a number of different provinces in PNG.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's was really just a catalyst by virtue of opportunity.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And what so there's three of us in the Ag Dots team, and we work with And so this is your business.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry to cut you off.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I should have really asked, even what is Ag Dots?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Ag Dotz is a consultancy that works predominantly in rural regional remote communities.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we work in the spaces in between.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: So there's three of us in the team, all based in regional communities across WA, and we work on really gnarly projects that are quite systemic or crunchy, or in my case, I've done a lot of work in kind of conflict navigation as well.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we work in the spaces in between, hence agdots, it's like connect the dots.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: We often work on really systemic challenges, that and especially power, like who holds power, and especially because in regional communities, so many of our decisions are made outside our communities and us, especially in terms of um funding or resources or whatnot.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So how we can work with communities to speak truth to power, but redistribute that power so it's not power over, but power with.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that notion of nothing about us without us.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so that's I kind of the genesis of Ag Dots was really me having a crack at a piece of work back in PNG.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was because of that work in PNG and the skills that I had back there around just kind of diplomacy and working with quite with conflicting power because it was an Australian government funded program in PNG.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And PNG just turned 51 last year since in so it was sort, sorry, not last year, last week, 51 years of since independence from Australia.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Power is a huge factor in, especially for a white a Gadia, a white lady working in places like PNG.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can speak language, I can do all those things, and I live there for a bit.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so that's kind of that first project that I did really paved the foundation for the kinds of work that I do and think about now.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, okay.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, it's become this, obviously it just started off with you, and now you've got another two people.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously this business is continuing to grow.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and we do work, so there's three of us sort of very we all love our respective communities, but we also work with, for example, depending on the project, if it's a like a lot of we do a lot of economic development, so we work with economists or you know, economic anal analysts, and we have worked on infrastructure projects.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we work with people like architects or you know, those kinds of things.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we would subcontract out.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: We predominantly, in fact, all of our businesses that we work with are regionally based, but some of them are metro-based by virtue of the projects that we're working with.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so we're a big network of humans that are equally committed to, you know, walking the talk and and doing really impactful work.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Good on you.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what do you think makes someone a genuinely good leader, particularly when they're working with communities, rather than just simply managing people?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like you're gonna have a pretty good idea about this.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it kind of speaks to what I was saying before about power.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than power over, it's power with.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we think about leadership, we often think about positional.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And even I've said it earlier in the interview, you know, leadership role.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And leadership is not inherently linked to a position.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I like to think about leadership as a verb rather than a noun.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's an action rather than a title that you get.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, then if I think about leadership as actions or kind of defining leadership for me and what makes a good leader is that someone who's self-aware, so they've got the ego in check because leadership is not about self, it's about collective and it's about relations relationality.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think embracing the notion that I don't know when I learned this is I feel like it was in my 20s, where you don't have, I think I thought you have to know everything, but it's actually not about that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually being embracing and being comfortable with actually not having the answers.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because leadership is not about having the answers, it's often about a process.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as I mentioned before, it's about process, it's not positional.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: The third thing for me, I think, that I find is really important in the notion of leadership and leading is being okay with it, being in the messy middle.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is that especially in the kinds of work that we do, we're often grappling with wicked challenges that by their very nature do not have simple solutions.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you're constantly learning and relearning and you're only ever making progress.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like wicked challenges you can never really solve.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: They are just evolving beasts.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to be okay with being in the messy middle and continue it and then continue to create reassuring spaces like to people that are in it with you and creating those safe spaces for people to bugger it up.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna swear, bugger it up.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I do think great.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And really, you know, learn from this.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, it's that notion of it's you know, the same thinking that you use to create the problem is going to be totally outdated by the time you come to actually resolve it.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Creating those safe, inclusive spaces for people to be able to contribute.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I like the way that you explain that for sure.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I guess one thing too, I guess tracing back from the previous question was I know, you know, you work in development, and when we talk about developing the regional and remote communities, what do you think people outside those communities often misunderstand, though?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would find it really hard to live in a place like Canberra because you you are so disconnected from the majority of Australia purely by by virtue of our geography.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, especially places like the East Kimberley, where our remoteness and our uniqueness makes it really hard for policy to be developed by decision makers in far-fetched cities, like it's actually really difficult.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of do have empathy for, you know, people that are making decisions that impact communities like um us up here.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I think about in the context of development, and there will be some community members in Kananara that will have witnessed me at a community forum a few months ago lose my absolute shit.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because we had a someone who wanted to do a project in town come in and talk to us if like we were dumb.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: That probably happens a lot.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just, it's like we are different, we are not dumb.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Please do not talk to us like we do not understand the implications of the project that you're proposing or that you know, we d we know this place better than you.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I get really frustrated.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's that same notion again, nothing about us without us come to us, especially when you're having people from outside communities coming in, yeah, speaking to us as equals.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know how you were talking before about you don't have to know everything in regards to leadership.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you think women in particular sometimes wait until they do feel like they're 100% qualified before putting themselves forward?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Have you noticed this?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this trope is historical or if it's still a thing, but I I really I struggle with the premise of it because it kind of centers women as the problem, right?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than, you know, I talk about a lot about systems, right?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: About the the kind of the operating environment.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think this about, you know, in various spaces where I've intended to create a a broader, diverse, you know, for example, a boardroom.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we're inviting, you know, it's all men, and I've often been the only woman in a space and or a total, you know, whitewash of a board and we want to in increase our diversity.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's we think about the other or the minority, the woman being the problem or the First Nations person being uh kind of the outer.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I would rather us, rather than kind of making women of or, you know, the diversity factor the problem, it's actually what are the conditions that we are creating in our boards that makes it feel safe for people to be able to put their hand up before they're even ready.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think I've put my hand up when I haven't known everything, but I've had that confidence to do so, and not everyone has that.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And being ready doesn't necessarily equal knowing everything either.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: A board that I've been on was an ASX, ASX listed company, I was the only woman.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that I learned from being on that board was they said they were ready for someone who had different thinking, and it just so happened to be that I was a woman.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But when I joined, they were not ready.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a very diplomatic person and a very I'm I'm not an aggressive person, I'm a very generative person, and I can say things in a way that invites people to listen to what I have to say, but they were not ready.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think that's the case that spaces that women or you know, anyone who is a minority in community aren't in.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's more about the environment than the person themselves.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was a great answer.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And not that I'm ticking you with my red pen and giving out gold stars, but that was that was fantastic.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I guess, you know, going on from that, what do you think we need to do differently to get more women in leadership positions, like especially in regional areas, as in women need to put themselves out there.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I can't just say women just develop confidence out of thin air because not everybody does that.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you think could be uh, you know, an answer to this?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So again, challenging the premise of the question a little bit and harking back to something I said before.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the rural regional remote women's network, the Triple R Women's Network, did a really great report a couple of years ago around women's leadership in the regions.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I only just discovered these guys recently.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're an awesome organization, been around for 30 years this year.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and 21, so just and so local government is often a place where people get leadership experience, right?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's um within staff, especially in regional communities, on staff or as counsellors.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And of the 145 local governments there are in West Australia, 21 of those local governments, governments are headed by women CEOs.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: But interestingly, of those 21, 16 are in the regions.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost three quarters of the women CEOs, so three quarters of those women CEOs are actually from the regions.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and similarly, even though I think the other factor is that there's as there is actually more men than women in the regions.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is actually, like you look at the Pilbara, it's like a ratio of two to one.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what it is up here in in Catanara.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's actually fewer women to take on leadership roles.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: But kind of back to the local government thing, it's interesting then that of local government counsellors, 43% are women.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually almost 44%.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually do have a lot of women in leadership roles.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Women are leading.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: They are leading in communities.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: If I think about, I've done a lot of work in uh, so when Cyclones Arogia hit the Midwest and the Wheat Belt and when the Marora Fitzroy flooded, I've done a lot of work in emergency kind of recovery work.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the people that stood up in those communities when the shit hit the fan was predominantly women.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know that.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: You talk to any of the agencies that were there in the response, they were the ones pulling together the social fabric, right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: We're making sure they were looking after everyone.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like when Red Cross were in there, when Department of Communities were in there, when DFES were in these communities, it was the women that stood up because they understand how communities work.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they've often taken on roles that are the ones that make communities tick.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing that that report really interestingly pointed to of those women that were CEOs of, for example, RFDS or SHIRE presidents or whatnot, they pointed to the fact that in regional communities, it's kind of what I said before, there is plenty of opportunities to learn, develop skills, to develop your leadership.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not linear.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not you join an organization, you climb the ladder.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, right, oh, I'll take on being the president of Apex or you know, being involved in the whole the hospital auxiliary, rah rah rah.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Before you like it's it's non-linear in regional communities, and that gives, I I think especially I get commented on it, people who are from regional communities have a really broad skill set.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So definitely.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, thank you for sharing that.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know now you can tell me no on this, but I feel like I really want to ask this question.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever had a failure, rejection, or a setback that actually ended up taking you somewhere better?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: When I lived in Papua New Guinea, I came across this really awesome organization called the Australian Centre for International Ag Research.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the first organization that I saw making really awesome, groundbreaking, fundamental change in how farmers worked in PNG and increasing food security.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I contacted them, I emailed them, I was like, Hi, my name's Liz.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want to work with your organization.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Are you a scientist?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, No, I'm not, but I have all these other skills.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they pretty much patted me on the head via email and said, That's so nice.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Wait till you get a science, you know, once wait till you get a master's or PhD and then come back to us in the science background.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, you know, I'm a fairly robot, like it didn't, I was like, oh, well, you know, I gave it a crack.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Four years later, they contacted me and they said, Hey Liz, your name keeps coming up in circles of someone who's worked in really complex contexts and who can work cross-culturally and can work with power and kind of understand how governments work and farmers work.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Could you come and manage a$26 million agricultural research programme on food security and PNG across five different research projects for us?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, please.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Only because I put my name out there and I was kind of in the back tab, you know, someone's tab in their back of their brain.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And because I'd done impactful work, that this then became I did that for six years, and that's where I used to travel to Canberra quite a lot because I there was a lot of soft diplomacy involved in that work.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so that's one example of just having a crack and being a drawn to something that resonated with me and then yeah, turned it into that amazing piece of work that I did.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's also started my consultancy.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the piece of work that started my consultancy.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, that's cool because then I guess that's that's like the evolution, well, the the birth really of agdons and then to where it is now.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know, is there something that you believe very strongly now that a younger Liz would have completely disagreed with?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I grew up in the family I did, I didn't ever think that women were treated differently.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't think that like misogyny existed.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think that racism existed.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just I was like, I I probably yes was naive, but also because I grew up in a very a family that spoke about these things or kind of women were treated d the same.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was not until I worked in different areas or my first I was on election to the Board of Australian Women in Agriculture.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then heard experiences of women.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was only in, I think I can't never recall if it was 93 or 94 that in the Australian census you could not be a woman and a farmer.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like you could not be, and I just was like, what do you mean?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's in my lifetime.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have that the Australian government told us that we couldn't be both.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know it's just data collection, but it just f we're if we're not counting women farmers, like we're not making decisions about.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I started to get curious about the systems that reinforce injustice.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, certainly living up here in the East Kimberley, racism is palpable and it's surf surface level in this community.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: That is, these are views that I, as a young person, I didn't think that existed.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And now I am so aware of it and I notice these kind of injustices on a, you know, in my work on a daily basis, in conversation.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to know what is it about living in Catanara that you love and what has living here taught you?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know that you said you've been on 43 flights last year, but I mean the fact that you bought a house here in Catanara shows obviously your community to living here in the East Kimberly, but what is it about living in Katanara that you just love?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's funny.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've lived, I grew up in a regional community, I've lived in remote communities in PNG, and I think it is the remoteness and the rawness.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's an honesty.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's an honesty and a rawness that you can't you just can't hide from in remote communities.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you you're like living close to the edge.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's that there's a and I have this same feeling of aliveness here in Kananara as I did in PNG.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that things can happen so quickly, like there's this real energy.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I love about living in Kananara.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing I've learnt about the East Kimberly is because we are so remote, we are wary of outsiders, and there are people that just don't get it.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm glad that you mentioned that because that's a that's a really good word to use.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's do you think it's just a Cunanara thing?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a Northern Australia thing because especially because decisions are made about us so far away.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's It's a tricky one because I've lived in Derby for three years.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And Derby has its own issues, but it's it has its own quirks and you know positives to it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then living in Wyndham for six years, same thing.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And but there was always this like Kananara, you know, Wyndham.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: There was always this to me.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, we're there's only 100 Ks apart, but the two communities themselves are so completely different.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: But living in the East Kimberley for that time, and then now I've been in Broom for 10 years, Broome is a whole other ball game in itself, and it's a 10-hour car drive away.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I my personal opinion is I do think Kananara, the town itself, is the most wary of other people.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I teach I teach adults on the Dampy Peninsula, they can be very similar as well.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Where if there are people that don't know me, if I rock up and and I go to do my main job, you know, teaching adults, a lot of people straight away they automatically think you're from Perth, they don't want to know about you.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there is this kind of wariness to it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like in Kananara, I personally think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like Kananara is just since time began, they've had this thing because you're probably so used to people coming in, they're so transient.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, they come in, they might not necessarily know how the community itself ticks and works.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always got to be this natural, well, I'm not sure about them.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: What's what is their underlying, you know, what are they here for?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do they want?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think, and I I've only ever lived in Kananara in the Kimberley, so I can't compare to the other places, but I think you've there is an element that you've named around the transient nature of places like Kananara.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: We do have, you know, we are a service town and we do, by virtue of that, a lot of our, you know, whether it's in education, health or policing, you know, we do have a turnover that is sometimes mandated.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there is that.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I also, from what, you know, the history that I've read of some of the places in the Kimberley, there are some not nice parts of our history.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think when people come in and they don't take time to understand the story of a place, when they come in, and I'm gonna kind of flip the coin in a moment, but when they come in and they they don't seek to understand, is that that notion of before you, you know, under you need to seek to understand.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I've I I guess I've committed to an art of asking questions, because that's how people feel valued and valuable.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you are meeting as equals.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm gonna give you rapid fire now.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: For your very first rapid fire question is uh what is something people assume about you that is absolutely completely wrong?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I come across as a really bright, bubbly, I had someone give me this feedback actually.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um bright, bubbly, bold person.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh actually what they said, having come to know me for a bit a bit longer, was that I have a depth intelligence and like I'm deeply considered.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, so I don't know.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I kind of come across as this very gregarious character.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say that I'm really bad at sarcasm.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and so it's people find that often quite funny that I'm just like I take people at their word.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I yeah, I think Wow.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's funny for you to admit that too.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because most people wouldn't admit that.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hilarious because I actually have to check when people someone made a sarcastic comment.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, no, it wasn't sarcastic, I have a really bad sarcasm rater.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, are you being serious or you you're pulling my leg?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what's what's an achievement that you're proud of that might not necessarily appear on your CD or your LinkedIn profile?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: When I moved to PNG, I was playing quite competitive netball.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was going to be the thing that I missed the most when I made relocated to PNG.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: So my first year I ran a clinic for about 10 women.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I ran three clinics.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in the set by the end, a year later, we had I'd trained coaches, umpires, etc.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: We had 21 teams, three divisions, and we had a team in the nationals.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Holy crap.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And those courts still exist.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was back in PNG in Joua, June in June, rather, I went past and saw all the netballers.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's one of my biggest uh all-time favourite accomplishments in life.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so good.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's incredible, actually.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um now, obviously, anybody that's been listening to our episode, I'm sure that they've obviously picked up pretty quick smart that you are a significant high achiever and that you enjoy obviously taking on a lot of roles, a lot of positions, being involved.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to know this because I struggle with this myself, but what do you do to relax or wind down from all of these busy jobs, positions that you've got?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you relax?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I should really ask.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I am a strong believer, you need to, you can't do marathons at sprint paces.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like you absolutely need to have a rhythm that listens to your body.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: For me, because I do travel a lot, the practice that I have is noticing detail and patterns.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that, you know, is I will, and it's often in Mother Nature.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll go and I'll, you know, go for a bushwalk or if I'm traveling wherever I am, go for a walk and just notice, which feels really simple.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is very simple, but it has you get really in tune with the moment.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's quite meditative.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, and because I love, I'm, as I mentioned before, love the change of seasons, I love noticing different things.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes me feel very connected in my body, but then also connected to my outside environment, as which is especially critical when I'm traveling.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I asked my guest to give a shout-out to a woman.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a couple women, somebody who in your life has either impacted you or you know, you just take great inspiration from.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anyone that you want to give a shout-out to?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have a family of women who are absolute rock stars.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: My great-grandmother was the one that started our farming, Ma Brennan, and she couldn't get farm credit.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: She couldn't get, she was the only woman that was a farmer in our district.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was almost impossible for her to get seed for seeding, actually get equipment supplies.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, and then I have like my grandma who was a maths teacher, my nana, who was this like humble but impactful woman who worked in secret ways.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: My mum is a remote, has been a remote midwife, especially in some communities up here.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: My stepmum is this fierce woman.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: My sister lives in New York, practically runs the city.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: She's so unapologetic.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And my sister-in-law is just like this powerhouse of a woman that's like joined our family.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's the women in my family.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right from my mum through to my sister-in-law.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that so much.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: That, I mean, that's great.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: You uh certainly surround yourself with some pretty powerful women.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I've had the best time having this conversation with you here today in Kananara.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I just want to say thank you again for coming onto the podcast.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Emma.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to She Said It Out Loud.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you took something away from today's episode, I would love to hear from you.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Don't find me on Instagram at officially Emma Young.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And hit follows to new episodes land straight in your feed.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time for more real and honest stories from legendary women.