Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 24 November

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 24 November · The Bolt Report

0:11
Speaker 1: Is the good report tonight paul In Hansen and why
0:18
Speaker 1: she wore the burker in Parliament today and the reaction
0:21
Speaker 1: she got one from politicians, the other from the public watching,
0:26
Speaker 1: plus another terrible poll for the Liberal shows there's no
0:28
Speaker 1: easy way out of this mess and no messiah. And
0:32
Speaker 1: Donald Trump sells out Ukraine. What does he bizarre twist
0:36
Speaker 1: through his latest peace plan? But first Chris Bowen sold
0:41
Speaker 1: us out in Brazil. I've never seen a government minister
0:44
Speaker 1: so completely betray his country overseas. A climate change and
0:49
Speaker 1: energy minister has always been a global warming extreams. That's
0:52
Speaker 1: not new. But last Friday Bowen outdid himself at the
0:55
Speaker 1: big UN climate conference. He'sided to deal with other countries,
1:00
Speaker 1: telling the world to stop buying Australia's coal, stop buying
1:05
Speaker 1: our gas, stop buying in fact, two of our three
1:08
Speaker 1: biggest exports a quarter of everything we sell overseas. They
1:13
Speaker 1: should stop buying Australian exports worth one hundred and fifty
1:17
Speaker 1: billion dollars a year that we need to help pay
1:20
Speaker 1: for pensions and super hospitals, schools. He even promised to
1:25
Speaker 1: get rid of the coal and gas generators that supplied
1:27
Speaker 1: two thirds of our electricity. Now, Bone wouldn't have put
1:32
Speaker 1: it as bluntly and honestly as I have, but that
1:35
Speaker 1: is exactly the effect of the declaration he signed on
1:38
Speaker 1: Friday if the rest of the world took Bowen seriously.
1:44
Speaker 1: What he's signed is called the Bellum Declaration on the
1:46
Speaker 1: Transition away from Fossil Fuels, and it says, among other things,
1:50
Speaker 1: we reaffirm our shared determination to work collectively towards a just,
1:55
Speaker 1: orderly and equitable transition away from fossil fuels and goes
1:59
Speaker 1: on to call for fossil fuels to be replaced by renewables.
2:03
Speaker 1: Now that left the Prime Minister on Saturday at the
2:06
Speaker 1: G twenty seven in South Africa trying to distance himself
2:09
Speaker 1: from Bone's big call.
2:12
Speaker 2: Awre they already plans to take her down Australia's production.
2:16
Speaker 3: Of fossiph Our position is what our positions are, same
2:21
Speaker 3: today as it was yesterday. The cheapest form of new
2:25
Speaker 3: energy is renewables that needs to be backed up by gas,
2:30
Speaker 3: by as firming capacity, by batteries and by hydro.
2:37
Speaker 1: So Chris Bone says, get off gas, and the Prime
2:40
Speaker 1: Minister says we'll stick with gas. So which one is it.
2:45
Speaker 1: But let me tell you how radical bone statement is.
2:49
Speaker 1: I'm sure you remember Tim Flannery, you know, the climate
2:52
Speaker 1: extremist through eighteen years ago warned that even the rains
2:55
Speaker 1: that fall will not fill our dams in our river systems.
2:59
Speaker 1: His climate can actually calls what Bones said the strongest
3:04
Speaker 1: language we've seen from the Australian government yet about the
3:08
Speaker 1: need to switch away from fossil fuels. Other it's climate
3:11
Speaker 1: activists that came to the same conclusion, strongest language. They
3:14
Speaker 1: were cheering. And here's another measure of how extreme Bone's
3:18
Speaker 1: statement was. Now what he sounds was actually just a
3:22
Speaker 1: side deal with some other climate catastrophers fellow thinkers. When
3:29
Speaker 1: it came to the rest of the world. When it
3:31
Speaker 1: came to the final declaration of the United Nations Climate
3:35
Speaker 1: Conference in Brazil, all those delicates as a whole, there
3:39
Speaker 1: is not a single mention of fossil fuels in the
3:44
Speaker 1: entire document, and certainly no demand did the world give
3:47
Speaker 1: them up. And one of the reasons other delegates there
3:53
Speaker 1: fought for their country's interests in a way that Chris
3:56
Speaker 1: Boone did not. Bone was happy to give up Australia's
4:01
Speaker 1: coal and gas exports, but the big oil producing countries
4:05
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, they said, no, We're not giving
4:08
Speaker 1: up our oil exports. And the BBC reports that negotiators
4:13
Speaker 1: from Arab countries refuse to join huddles with those who
4:17
Speaker 1: wanted a pathway away from fossil energy, and a delicate
4:21
Speaker 1: from Saudi Arabia even told them, we make energy policy
4:25
Speaker 1: in our capital, not in yours. Why didn't Cris Bone
4:31
Speaker 1: say the same, Why didn't he protect Australia's exports, it's
4:36
Speaker 1: power system, our standard of living. I mean even Anthony
4:41
Speaker 1: Albanese's defense today of Chris Bone, who now, by the way,
4:45
Speaker 1: officially doubles as the United Nations President of Climate negotiations.
4:52
Speaker 1: Albanese's defense suggests the government's climate policies are now set
4:56
Speaker 1: by other capitals in Pacific countries which use global warming
5:01
Speaker 1: as an excuse the guilt cash out of us.
5:05
Speaker 4: The Prime Minister has said the Minister for Energy will
5:08
Speaker 4: have quote unprecedented influence in global climate negotiations as the
5:14
Speaker 4: president of COP thirty one negotiations. Why isn't this part
5:18
Speaker 4: time minister, full time president using this unprecedented influence to
5:25
Speaker 4: lower energy bills for Australians.
5:28
Speaker 5: Now I spoke with Prime Minister Rambulka and Prime Minister
5:31
Speaker 5: Marapa and other Pacific leaders last week. They are delighted
5:36
Speaker 5: that Australia and the Pacific will be able to play
5:38
Speaker 5: a role in international climate change engagement.
5:43
Speaker 1: Now Pacific leaders are delighted. PMNG delighted. Look this global
5:48
Speaker 1: warming cargo cult maybe in the interests of the Pacific,
5:53
Speaker 1: it's a cash cow for them. But this government should
5:56
Speaker 1: be governing in the interests of Australians. So why did
6:01
Speaker 1: Chris Bone say to the climate extremes of the world
6:06
Speaker 1: destroy us. Now I'm sorry, I'm but I'm going to
6:13
Speaker 1: have to call out the Prime Minister for flogging another
6:15
Speaker 1: global warming scare today when he again defended Chris Bowen.
6:20
Speaker 1: Like I said, also now president of the nation's climate negotiations.
6:25
Speaker 4: This part time energy minister, full time president is absent
6:30
Speaker 4: from Parliament today prioritizing global summits ahead of reducing power
6:35
Speaker 4: prices for Australians. Prime Minister, how many days will the
6:40
Speaker 4: part time minister spend overseas in his new role as
6:44
Speaker 4: full time president?
6:45
Speaker 5: There will be a meeting in the Pacific about climate change.
6:49
Speaker 5: Without action on climate change. Countries like Kirobas and Tavalu
6:56
Speaker 5: will disappear, will disappear underwater.
7:01
Speaker 1: Curibus and two Valu will disappear underwater. How often have
7:05
Speaker 1: I dealt with that one? How can anyone trust the
7:08
Speaker 1: word that Albinezi says about global warming? Even the ABC
7:12
Speaker 1: four years ago reported research suggesting that low lying Pacific
7:16
Speaker 1: adult nations like Tuvalu and Kiribas are not sinking. Hundreds
7:20
Speaker 1: of islands are instead growing because coral and sand keeps
7:25
Speaker 1: getting washed up by waves onto them. In fact, research
7:28
Speaker 1: from twenty eighteen Showstuvlu is now nearly three percent bigger
7:33
Speaker 1: than half a century ago. And as for Kurobush, researchers
7:37
Speaker 1: from Auckland University just four years ago confirmed earlier research
7:41
Speaker 1: that it was growing too. They studied seventy one of
7:46
Speaker 1: its islands and found they'd grown two point four five
7:48
Speaker 1: percent since the nineteen forties. Now I know that politicians
7:55
Speaker 1: from these islands they like to say, oh, our islands
7:58
Speaker 1: are drowning because along comes a dupe like Albanezi or Bowen,
8:03
Speaker 1: handing them millions of dollars. But all the science that
8:07
Speaker 1: I've seen in the past fifteen years suggests that what
8:09
Speaker 1: Albanezi said today is not true, so why does he
8:13
Speaker 1: keep saying it? But to the breaking news late this afternoon,
8:23
Speaker 1: One Nation leader Pauline Hansen went into the Senate today
8:26
Speaker 1: dressed in a burker after she'd been refused permission to
8:30
Speaker 1: introduce a bill to ban the burker from public spaces. Now,
8:34
Speaker 1: Hanson was abused by several senators and not allowed to
8:37
Speaker 1: defend herself by a Muslim senator Fatima Payment could freely
8:40
Speaker 1: wear her he job. Hanson wasn't even allowed to speak
8:44
Speaker 1: in her defense before the Senate was suspended after she
8:48
Speaker 1: refused to leave, although others were given a free shot
8:51
Speaker 1: at her.
8:53
Speaker 6: But racism should not be the choice of the Senate.
8:57
Speaker 4: This is a racist.
8:58
Speaker 7: Senator, Senator displaying racism.
9:03
Speaker 1: Resident.
9:04
Speaker 8: If this is about the dress code, she is disrespecting
9:07
Speaker 8: of faith.
9:08
Speaker 7: She is disrespecting the Muslims out there, Muslim Australians.
9:12
Speaker 1: It's absolutely unconstitutional.
9:16
Speaker 2: This needs to be dealt with immediately before we proceed.
9:19
Speaker 8: Clearly, what has happened today is not a genuine demonstration
9:24
Speaker 8: of faith. In fact, it is the middle finger to
9:27
Speaker 8: people of faith. It is extremely racist and unsafe.
9:33
Speaker 9: Senator Hanson, all of us in this place, have a
9:36
Speaker 9: great privilege in coming into this chamber, a great privilege,
9:40
Speaker 9: and we represent in our states people of every faith,
9:46
Speaker 9: of every faith.
9:48
Speaker 1: Even the liberal leader in the Senate. Another woman attacked
9:51
Speaker 1: Hanson so much for free speech and democracy. But Hanson,
9:56
Speaker 1: in a way out did give a little speech to
9:57
Speaker 1: members of the public have been watching on explaining what
10:01
Speaker 1: she was doing and why they at least very interesting.
10:05
Speaker 1: Gave her a round of applause and called out, good
10:08
Speaker 1: on your Pauline, and now Pauline Hanson will explain yourself
10:12
Speaker 1: to you. Pauline Hanson, thank you so much for joining me.
10:16
Speaker 1: Why we're the burker in the Senate?
10:18
Speaker 10: Now?
10:19
Speaker 1: You did it eight years ago and did cause outrage
10:21
Speaker 1: among some, so why do it again?
10:26
Speaker 7: Andrew? Today I moved on the floor Parliament. As a senator,
10:30
Speaker 7: I have a right to move a private member's bill,
10:33
Speaker 7: and that bill was under the Criminal Code Amendment to
10:37
Speaker 7: prohibit the burker or full face covering in public places.
10:41
Speaker 7: Now I wanted to introduce that bill. My concern is
10:46
Speaker 7: as a nation for national security, terrorst threats and attacks
10:50
Speaker 7: that are happening, also for women's rights that they're not
10:53
Speaker 7: forced to wear the full burger against their will, and
10:56
Speaker 7: it's you know, I think it goes against our culture,
11:00
Speaker 7: in our way of life, and this is why I
11:03
Speaker 7: wanted to introduce the bill. Now, I just started to
11:05
Speaker 7: introduce the bill and it took one voice Andrew there
11:09
Speaker 7: was a couple actually said no, denied me the right.
11:11
Speaker 7: So straight away that denied me the right to ban
11:14
Speaker 7: the burker. So I actually left the chamber, went up
11:16
Speaker 7: and I put the burker on. I thought, well, if
11:18
Speaker 7: you won't ban the burker, then I'm going.
11:20
Speaker 6: To wear it. Well didn't that upset them?
11:23
Speaker 7: They didn't want me to wear the burker in Palm.
11:25
Speaker 7: They don't want to ban it, but they don't want
11:27
Speaker 7: me to wear an emparliament.
11:27
Speaker 6: So what do they want? They are a bunch of hypocrites.
11:32
Speaker 1: Well, I have to say that did occur to me too.
11:34
Speaker 1: But that said, the presidency loans have said that this
11:39
Speaker 1: is in fact the religious requirement. The senators they were saying,
11:43
Speaker 1: you were mocking a faith then by wearing it, and
11:46
Speaker 1: therefore you shouldn't be allowed to wear it. Then in
11:48
Speaker 1: fact you've been asked for an assurance that you won't
11:51
Speaker 1: wear it in future because the supposedly insulting Islam.
11:54
Speaker 7: Your response, that's correct what you're saying, Andrew. Let me
12:00
Speaker 7: make it quite clear. I do have the utmost respect
12:03
Speaker 7: for people of what faith they may be, and that's
12:06
Speaker 7: why I stood up for their Jewish people.
12:08
Speaker 6: I'm not Jewish, but I stood up for their rights.
12:10
Speaker 7: I've stood up for you know, Christians and Buddhists and
12:13
Speaker 7: different ones, and even with Muslims. You know, that's a
12:17
Speaker 7: person's faith. Do I agree with everything they do? No,
12:21
Speaker 7: I don't, but that's a person's faith. The burger is
12:23
Speaker 7: not a religious requirement. It's been introduced by men hundreds
12:28
Speaker 7: of years ago, and that was about controlling women. They
12:32
Speaker 7: don't want their women's flesh to be seen, so it's
12:34
Speaker 7: basically controlling women. It goes against a culture and a
12:37
Speaker 7: way of life. Se Line saying that it is a
12:40
Speaker 7: religious requirement, they don't understand Islamic culture law. So I'm
12:47
Speaker 7: trying to say, let these people come here to this country,
12:50
Speaker 7: let these women, let them assimilate, because all you're doing
12:54
Speaker 7: is just keep them covered up. What do we do
12:56
Speaker 7: for driver's licenses, what do we do in public places?
13:00
Speaker 6: All these other things?
13:01
Speaker 7: You know, people the general public feel they've been treated
13:05
Speaker 7: totally different. Those people walk into banks or other venues
13:08
Speaker 7: with the helmet on, they're told immediately get it off.
13:11
Speaker 7: We have to see a face. What are they going
13:13
Speaker 7: to do? How are they going to deal with it?
13:15
Speaker 7: When we have facial recognition?
13:17
Speaker 6: What are they going to do? How are they going
13:19
Speaker 6: to deal with it?
13:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I've heard a lot of Muslim activists and etc.
13:27
Speaker 1: Say no, these women choose to wear the burker, it
13:32
Speaker 1: shall be there right to dress as they see fit.
13:36
Speaker 1: Now again that I will point out that I was
13:39
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan when the Taliban were first chased out, and
13:43
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of women without the burker. The Taliban,
13:47
Speaker 1: the men of the Taliban came back and suddenly burker's everywhere.
13:50
Speaker 1: So that did seem to be some sort of compulsion there.
13:54
Speaker 1: But what about to women who say, no, it's my
13:56
Speaker 1: free choice.
13:59
Speaker 6: Well, good, that's your preacher. Sure it's weird around your house.
14:01
Speaker 6: I don't care what you do there.
14:02
Speaker 7: But in public places, why shouldn't the general public feel
14:05
Speaker 7: safe and knowing who's approaching them? You know, is a
14:08
Speaker 7: man underneath there? How do we know they're they're there
14:11
Speaker 7: to commit a crime? In our society, we don't know that.
14:15
Speaker 7: You know, are we going to take it for granted?
14:17
Speaker 7: When I wore the burker the first time?
14:19
Speaker 1: In many examples, you should have seen a.
14:21
Speaker 6: Look on their faces. Sorry, I haven't.
14:26
Speaker 1: Seen examples of men in burker's committing crimes, though.
14:33
Speaker 6: You don't know.
14:34
Speaker 7: How do you know that they're not wearing it as
14:37
Speaker 7: a cover up to commit a crime? How do we
14:40
Speaker 7: know that full face coverings? We don't need it. My
14:43
Speaker 7: bill covered also, full face coverings, Andrew, not just the burker?
14:48
Speaker 6: Okay, so full face coverings.
14:50
Speaker 7: Don't you ask yourself the question why have so many
14:54
Speaker 7: countries banned the burker? Why have Islamic countries banned it
14:59
Speaker 7: as well? So you got to ask yourself that question.
15:02
Speaker 7: Do we want to see this country go the way
15:05
Speaker 7: of France, Denmark or even the Great Britain the way
15:11
Speaker 7: it is now?
15:12
Speaker 6: And I don't want to.
15:13
Speaker 7: See it go that way. Why shouldn't we have open
15:16
Speaker 7: for days so people can see who you are? Why
15:19
Speaker 7: shouldn't these people assimilate? And that's another thing, Andrew, how
15:22
Speaker 7: do we know that these people are not going to
15:25
Speaker 7: end up on our welfare system?
15:27
Speaker 6: You know? Are they employable?
15:30
Speaker 7: I don't know, there's a lot of questions here. But
15:33
Speaker 7: they never gave me the ability to debate this bill
15:36
Speaker 7: on the floor of Parliament.
15:37
Speaker 6: They shut it down.
15:38
Speaker 7: Why not have debate, Why not have counter arguments against me?
15:42
Speaker 7: Why and let the public know the way actually think?
15:45
Speaker 7: But no they don't. They just shut me down completely.
15:47
Speaker 7: It can't be debated finished, it's gone.
15:51
Speaker 1: Well here you touch on something that does concern me
15:54
Speaker 1: a fair bit because you weren't allowed to table your
15:57
Speaker 1: bill or even have a debate in the Senate. You
16:02
Speaker 1: weren't even allowed to speak in your defense after being
16:05
Speaker 1: told to take off the burker or leave. That strikes
16:08
Speaker 1: me as well. An infringement on how parliament should work
16:14
Speaker 1: on your right to speak as a politician strikes me.
16:18
Speaker 1: There's a lot of nervousness going on there.
16:22
Speaker 6: A lot of biased as well.
16:24
Speaker 7: And I called the President out and she had a
16:27
Speaker 7: meeting with me afterwards, and I told her, I said,
16:29
Speaker 7: you're biased towards me. I said, you never gave me
16:31
Speaker 7: the opportunity to raise or speak to it. Why do
16:35
Speaker 7: you just completely ignore me? Even I said, other senators,
16:38
Speaker 7: those of my party and another party stood up to
16:41
Speaker 7: actually have say something to it, And she completely ignored them,
16:46
Speaker 7: wouldn't call them. She called for a division. There was
16:49
Speaker 7: more than two voices. She completely ignored it. When it
16:51
Speaker 7: was questioned, she said, I've made my decision. The eyes
16:55
Speaker 7: have it to suspend me. The process of that parliament
16:59
Speaker 7: was load to the letter, and I called her out
17:02
Speaker 7: for it. And I'm sick and tired of the bias
17:04
Speaker 7: that's shine towards me. This isn't the first time I've
17:07
Speaker 7: had one of my private members bill in that parliament
17:10
Speaker 7: denied to me.
17:12
Speaker 6: So I'll keep.
17:13
Speaker 7: Standing my ground with this, and I still will fight
17:17
Speaker 7: on the issues that are important to me. And these
17:20
Speaker 7: issues are brought to me constantly by the general public. Andrew,
17:23
Speaker 7: you know, it's nothing to do with you know, against
17:26
Speaker 7: person's faith. As I said, I respect a person's faith,
17:29
Speaker 7: no matter what your faith is.
17:31
Speaker 6: But when it.
17:31
Speaker 7: Does impact on the national security of this nation, when
17:35
Speaker 7: it impacts and you know, when we are at a
17:37
Speaker 7: probable cause for terrorism in the country, I'm sorry. I
17:40
Speaker 7: am going to keep standing my ground until we get
17:43
Speaker 7: some common sense.
17:46
Speaker 1: Well again, I would point out that I don't even
17:48
Speaker 1: know for single terrorists, the incident evolving anyone in a
17:52
Speaker 1: burkere in Australia. But you know, the simulation thing I
17:56
Speaker 1: think is a live issue for me. But more the
17:59
Speaker 1: refusal to and debate this, I think that that is
18:01
Speaker 1: the really serious issue today. But so many things tossed
18:05
Speaker 1: up here. Pauling Hanson, thank you so much for your time,
18:10
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on Andrew after the break? What
18:15
Speaker 1: the are polling for the Liberals really says? And talk
18:19
Speaker 1: about climate catastrophes. The Bureau of Meteorology just blew one
18:23
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars of your money, I said a week
18:31
Speaker 1: ago to that for the Liberals scrapping the net zero target,
18:37
Speaker 1: that would in fact be the easy bit wow to
18:39
Speaker 1: news poll today underline that show the Liberals in huge
18:43
Speaker 1: trouble with no magic bullet or messiah they can save them.
18:48
Speaker 1: Labour's lead over the Coalition is back to an enormous
18:50
Speaker 1: fifty eight percent forty eight after preferences, although there's no
18:53
Speaker 1: change in the primary votes of the main parties. Labour
18:56
Speaker 1: is still allowsy thirty six percent, but the Coalition I
19:00
Speaker 1: want you to ca destruct twenty four percent for the
19:03
Speaker 1: oh dearie a deer with one nation still that it's
19:06
Speaker 1: huge high of fifteen percent. So like I said the
19:10
Speaker 1: Liberals just scrapping zero policy last week. That was never
19:13
Speaker 1: going to save them on its own, not when they're
19:17
Speaker 1: so divided and weak and all of which is why
19:20
Speaker 1: the most interest in this poll was in the answer
19:24
Speaker 1: to this question, who do you think would be the
19:27
Speaker 1: best leader of the Liberals? And again the news was
19:31
Speaker 1: bad for the Liberals, just twenty one percent for leader
19:34
Speaker 1: Susan Lee, but even less for her main rivals Andrew
19:38
Speaker 1: Hasey fifteen percent, Angus Taylor just nine. And the big
19:41
Speaker 1: picture there nearly half the voters don't know or don't
19:45
Speaker 1: care who could lead the Liberals. But you know only
19:49
Speaker 1: one in five states the woman who leads them now,
19:52
Speaker 1: So there is no messiah to lead the Liberals out
19:54
Speaker 1: of this mess, which is good news in one sense
20:00
Speaker 1: for Susan Lee because it should at least win her
20:02
Speaker 1: some time, a few months at least, to see that
20:05
Speaker 1: if with the clear air she would hopefully now get,
20:11
Speaker 1: she might be able to prove she's the one. During
20:13
Speaker 1: mister Panel, Michael Kroger form a Victorian Liberal president, and
20:17
Speaker 1: Steve Conroy, former Labor senator and Cabinet minister. Michael the
20:21
Speaker 1: Liberals scrapping the net zero target has done nothing, although
20:25
Speaker 1: to be fair it's only been a week. What is
20:28
Speaker 1: going to dig them out of this hole?
20:32
Speaker 11: So Andrew, you win, as I've said many times, you
20:34
Speaker 11: win elections on your own brand equity and the Liberal
20:37
Speaker 11: Party's a number one brand equity is the economy. So
20:41
Speaker 11: certainly I think last week did a very good job.
20:43
Speaker 11: I think she had her best week because she wrestled
20:45
Speaker 11: the artment away from gree they go onto electricity prices,
20:48
Speaker 11: So I think she did well. But if the elections
20:51
Speaker 11: and the next election is about the state of the economy,
20:54
Speaker 11: the Coalition have Susan's got a chance. If it's about
20:57
Speaker 11: the environment, health or education, they're not going to win.
21:01
Speaker 11: And so it might be time for the Coalition to
21:03
Speaker 11: start talking once again about the debt ceiling, which Kevin
21:06
Speaker 11: Rudd introduced in two thousand and seven at seventy five billion.
21:10
Speaker 11: Well twenty years later it's about to bit one point
21:13
Speaker 11: two trillion. There's got to be a point where the
21:16
Speaker 11: Coalition takes on debt as an argument, because otherwise they
21:20
Speaker 11: get defeated by Labour's tactic the minute, which is just
21:23
Speaker 11: to offer free stuff to everybody. And if you increase
21:28
Speaker 11: the debt, and no one's worried about debt because they're
21:31
Speaker 11: told our debt to GDP is low than others. Blah
21:33
Speaker 11: blah blah. Well, labor can keep offering free stuff all
21:36
Speaker 11: day long to people in a cost of living crisis.
21:38
Speaker 11: That works, and so they get re elected. So unless
21:41
Speaker 11: the coalition wrestles the debate back onto debt as a
21:45
Speaker 11: principal problem in this country, then it's not going to
21:48
Speaker 11: win an election if you're talking about net zero health
21:51
Speaker 11: or education.
21:51
Speaker 1: Andrew, Yeah, but I'm afraid you said two things there
21:56
Speaker 1: that but against each other. One is no one worried
22:00
Speaker 1: about debt, and be the liberals should talk about debt.
22:04
Speaker 1: I worry about it.
22:04
Speaker 11: In course, they'll worry about it. They'll worry about it
22:07
Speaker 11: when schools and hospitals start getting closed because they can't
22:10
Speaker 11: afford the payments of the states. Sooner or later, debt
22:13
Speaker 11: will bite you in the backside. The economic reality stick
22:16
Speaker 11: will hit you sooner or later later. I'm totally half
22:20
Speaker 11: to passel on to the next government at the minute,
22:22
Speaker 11: and that's got to stop.
22:23
Speaker 1: Totally. I'm sorry, but Stephen, Stephen, isn't it true? You know?
22:28
Speaker 1: The liberals, I know they said they had a good
22:31
Speaker 1: argument for it. You know, we've got to go spend
22:33
Speaker 1: a lot of money during the pandemic lockdown to keep
22:35
Speaker 1: the economy ticking and businesses open, people in jobs, and
22:39
Speaker 1: I got all that, but they put so much on
22:42
Speaker 1: the credit card that I think there's a lot of
22:45
Speaker 1: things that the lockdown's broke, and one of them is
22:47
Speaker 1: the idea that debt matters. I don't know that you
22:50
Speaker 1: can win an argument about debt without labor going on,
22:54
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're going to cut all this public service.
22:55
Speaker 1: You're going to cut all these programs. Where's the cuts.
22:59
Speaker 1: I think it's a loser the moment.
23:01
Speaker 12: Look, I agree with you. I know Michael has been
23:04
Speaker 12: consistent on this. He believes that brand equity of the
23:07
Speaker 12: Liberal Party is economic debate. But the size of debt
23:13
Speaker 12: rose enormously under the Liberal Party. They didn't make the
23:17
Speaker 12: surplus that they claim they were going to make. Yes,
23:20
Speaker 12: there were reasons for all of that, but it just
23:24
Speaker 12: showed that debt is no longer the weapon that Michael
23:30
Speaker 12: would hope it would be. I mean, he says, you've
23:32
Speaker 12: got to keep talking about it and talking about and
23:34
Speaker 12: they've been talking about energy prices going up for four
23:38
Speaker 12: years and it didn't win a vote. So people feel
23:44
Speaker 12: under pressure. They want cost of living measures to help them,
23:49
Speaker 12: and they think that it's right that the government should
23:52
Speaker 12: be providing those cost of living measures. So yes, the
23:56
Speaker 12: Liberals will be very vulnerable to an argument I've just
24:00
Speaker 12: got to lower the defict. I'm going to a huge
24:04
Speaker 12: surplus because that will be contracting the economy and more importantly,
24:10
Speaker 12: it will hit people's hip pockets. So yeah, that is
24:14
Speaker 12: I think you're dead right andrew it. That is the
24:16
Speaker 12: challenge that they've got at the moment.
24:19
Speaker 1: Now, Michael, I don't want to be too negative. Debt
24:21
Speaker 1: really does matter and the you know it's going to
24:24
Speaker 1: come and hit us right in the face. In fact,
24:26
Speaker 1: you've seen it in a sense in the inflation figures,
24:29
Speaker 1: et cetera. And now we've got possibly stagflation coming. But
24:34
Speaker 1: one the Liberals are I mean, I think they are
24:37
Speaker 1: right to hammer the power prices and Chris Bowen being
24:42
Speaker 1: made the United Nations President of Climate Negotiations, I mean
24:46
Speaker 1: even skipped the question time today in Parliament enough to
24:49
Speaker 1: getting this new job. It's not directly linked, I guess,
24:52
Speaker 1: but that's not a good look.
24:56
Speaker 11: Well, given the disaster that he's been. Bowen's been as
24:59
Speaker 11: a minute all through his career. I mean, why would
25:02
Speaker 11: he warrant a promotion. I mean a dismissal would be
25:05
Speaker 11: more warranted. I mean, Andrew two thousand dollars with the
25:08
Speaker 11: average electricity bill when they came to government, and in
25:11
Speaker 11: a few years time it's about to be four thousand
25:13
Speaker 11: dollars a year. We know what he promised. So I
25:16
Speaker 11: think the Coalition are on very solid ground on this.
25:19
Speaker 11: But just to go back to the debt argument, it's
25:22
Speaker 11: hard for the Coalition to win if you are the
25:25
Speaker 11: economically responsible party but you're not prepared to talk about debt.
25:29
Speaker 11: I mean, we abolish the debt ceiling by the way
25:30
Speaker 11: in two thirteen, which I don't think we should have done.
25:33
Speaker 11: I mean, just to sort of pretend debt doesn't exist,
25:37
Speaker 11: just put having on the credit card. The Coalition can't
25:39
Speaker 11: win an argument if it doesn't fight for the argument.
25:43
Speaker 11: And of course Stephen's right, Labor great at secret cuts
25:46
Speaker 11: the littles in a slash and burn whatever. What's the
25:48
Speaker 11: alternative to that? The alternative to that is you'll be
25:50
Speaker 11: outspent by Labor at every election. And there's no penalty
25:54
Speaker 11: on labor. They keep a five billion for student debt. Well,
25:57
Speaker 11: anyone could spend five billion on student debt and and
26:00
Speaker 11: it just goes on the credit card, right, they just
26:02
Speaker 11: it was even an off balance sheet. It was an
26:04
Speaker 11: off balance sheet measure because it's effectively a capital expense
26:08
Speaker 11: and investment in the future. But Philip Victoria's bankrupts, I
26:11
Speaker 11: mean Victoria. The gross dad in Victoria is going to
26:13
Speaker 11: be three hundred billion in a couple of years. If
26:15
Speaker 11: the Liberal Party can't win an argument on economic management
26:18
Speaker 11: and debt, then it's very hard to win an election.
26:21
Speaker 11: And you've got to have people who are arguing this
26:23
Speaker 11: case very strongly because you know, if we don't, if
26:27
Speaker 11: we don't talk about it, well, our kids will pay
26:29
Speaker 11: for it down the track, you know, Oh well they
26:33
Speaker 11: and their kids will pay for it.
26:35
Speaker 1: So true. And don't forget that labor always every election.
26:39
Speaker 1: Whatever you say is Liberals runs a thing. What about
26:43
Speaker 1: your secret cuts every single election? So you might as
26:46
Speaker 1: well try to hit back. But Stephen, can you explain
26:50
Speaker 1: to me because you've worked with Chris barn he helped
26:53
Speaker 1: to destroy the rud and Gillard governments with this as
26:57
Speaker 1: immigration minister letting in. I don't know how many, so
27:00
Speaker 1: it's just enormous. Keep saying I'm in charge, I can
27:03
Speaker 1: fix it. Boats kept coming in. He helped destroy the
27:07
Speaker 1: Bill Shorten's opposition as Shadow Treasurer, but promising all sorts
27:12
Speaker 1: of radical big tax hits and saying if you don't
27:16
Speaker 1: like it, you can vote against this and now this,
27:19
Speaker 1: But what it's doing to energy policy, and yet it's
27:23
Speaker 1: being treated by the government as its secret weapon unleashed.
27:26
Speaker 1: And question time when he bothers to turn up, why
27:29
Speaker 1: is it with this guy? Why is Labor of so
27:31
Speaker 1: much faith in a guy there's been a rolled gold disaster.
27:36
Speaker 12: Look, I'm not going to accept a characterization of Chris
27:39
Speaker 12: at all. I served in that cabinet with you, and
27:42
Speaker 12: I'm really going to strongly push back on this.
27:44
Speaker 1: Andrew.
27:46
Speaker 12: We had a High court ruling which utterly, utterly shocked
27:51
Speaker 12: the government at the time because it overturned the previous
27:55
Speaker 12: practice and interpretation completely out of the ball. Okay, and
28:01
Speaker 12: then when Labor put forward measures that would have absolutely
28:05
Speaker 12: stopped the boats coming dead. That was the trade off
28:09
Speaker 12: with Malayjo and we'll take two of yours off the
28:11
Speaker 12: proper process and you take one back that was going
28:16
Speaker 12: to end the boat invasion dead. We know that because
28:22
Speaker 12: we listened to every word these Sorry, well you're wrong.
28:29
Speaker 12: Then now that you no cynically because they wanted the
28:35
Speaker 12: boats to keep coming, andrew cynically because they wanted the
28:40
Speaker 12: boats to keep coming to increase their political argument.
28:45
Speaker 1: But then move on to.
28:47
Speaker 12: Whether you agree or whether you agree or disagree with
28:50
Speaker 12: Chris on this. He is passionately driving a fundamental restructure
28:54
Speaker 12: of the economy. We are moving down the transition path
28:57
Speaker 12: to renewable energy. And where Michael makes you the cheap
29:01
Speaker 12: points eyes two thousands and going to be four thousand
29:04
Speaker 12: sometime in the future.
29:05
Speaker 1: Well, what what are you doing?
29:07
Speaker 12: What are you doing about it? What is the Liberal
29:09
Speaker 12: Party's policy after last week that says they're going to
29:12
Speaker 12: reduce power prices. Susan Lay was asked directly and would
29:16
Speaker 12: not answer that question. She has no proposal to love it.
29:19
Speaker 1: I got that the Liberal policy, mate, I've got it.
29:23
Speaker 1: But Labour's policy is causing all this mayhem. It said
29:28
Speaker 1: the policy would lower prices, they've gone up. And this
29:32
Speaker 1: is the thing. I don't think Chris Bowe understands. What
29:34
Speaker 1: the hell? But about Green Hudge and what the hell
29:37
Speaker 1: happened there? I don't know. I don't get it. Look exactly,
29:41
Speaker 1: Michael Krougis and.
29:43
Speaker 11: Chris Chris Chris Bond spend seventy five billion and the
29:46
Speaker 11: missions haven't reduced. They're still twenty eight percent on twenty
29:50
Speaker 11: five levels and we're seventy five billion down the drain.
29:55
Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much to you both. You're talking
30:00
Speaker 1: about waste of money. Redid its website. That change was
30:05
Speaker 1: so hated the bureer had to reverse itself. Now we
30:07
Speaker 1: learned that a web that this redesign of the web
30:12
Speaker 1: that we were told would cost a really steep four
30:14
Speaker 1: million dollars. How does it cost four million bucks? In
30:17
Speaker 1: fact cost ninety six million dollars including costs of testing,
30:22
Speaker 1: et cetera. Such to the Environment Minister. As the Marning answers.
30:28
Speaker 2: The initial figure that the bomb provided in the range
30:31
Speaker 2: of four million dollars was for one aspect of the
30:34
Speaker 2: website development. It's a matter for them why they chose
30:37
Speaker 2: to provide that figure rather than a broader figure. But
30:40
Speaker 2: there's no doubt that there have been increases in the
30:42
Speaker 2: cost of this website as it's been developed and One
30:44
Speaker 2: of the things that I've asked the new CEO of
30:47
Speaker 2: the bomb to get on top of is what happened here.
30:51
Speaker 1: And your watch, minister, But what's one hundred million dollars
30:55
Speaker 1: right after the break Donald Trump's controversial peace plan for Ukraine?
31:00
Speaker 1: Did Russia dictate it? US President Donald Trump has sprung
31:07
Speaker 1: a surprise peace plan on Ukraine that looks like, well,
31:11
Speaker 1: it was dictated by Russia. Ukraine must surrender. They must
31:15
Speaker 1: hand over the quarter of the Dombas province in the
31:18
Speaker 1: east that Russia still has had conquered. It has to
31:21
Speaker 1: cut its army down to six hundred thousand men. It
31:24
Speaker 1: can't have any long range missiles or join NATO to
31:28
Speaker 1: protect itself from a third Russian invasion. It's even well,
31:32
Speaker 1: it even has to pay Donald Trump protection money, would
31:35
Speaker 1: you believe it? And the US would also get control
31:38
Speaker 1: of one hundred billion US of frozen Russian assets to
31:42
Speaker 1: invest in the Ukraine. But with the US getting half
31:45
Speaker 1: the profits, all sanctions against Russia would be dropped and
31:49
Speaker 1: so on. Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenski warned Ukrainians the choices
31:53
Speaker 1: here were grim.
31:56
Speaker 13: Ukraine may be facing an extremely difficult decision either a
31:59
Speaker 13: loss of digging all the risk of losing a key partner.
32:04
Speaker 1: Now, this deal was so pro Putin that US Republicans
32:08
Speaker 1: said the U S Secretary of State Marker Rubio privately
32:11
Speaker 1: told them in a phone call it wasn't an American
32:13
Speaker 1: plan at all, it was a Russian one. When they
32:17
Speaker 1: went public, Rubio publicly said that wasn't true, although in
32:22
Speaker 1: talks with Ukraine and European leaders yesterday, Rubio did say
32:26
Speaker 1: changes were being negotiated.
32:29
Speaker 12: I think this is a very very meaningful I would say,
32:33
Speaker 12: probably best.
32:34
Speaker 1: Meeting and day we've had so far in this.
32:36
Speaker 12: Entire process, going back to when we first came into
32:38
Speaker 12: office in January.
32:41
Speaker 1: And Europe's counter offer now is very different. Ukraine would
32:45
Speaker 1: not have to simply give up the don Bass. Ukraine
32:48
Speaker 1: could also keep more troops. The US wouldn't control all
32:51
Speaker 1: that Russian money and half the profits Russian said would
32:55
Speaker 1: compensate Ukraine, and NATO would not be banned from having
33:00
Speaker 1: troops in Ukraine, although it wouldn't be there permanently. But
33:04
Speaker 1: then again, is Putin Is Trump going to accept that?
33:07
Speaker 1: Joining us? The country's top foreign affairs writer, Greg Sheridan
33:11
Speaker 1: of the Australian Greg. Great to see any peace deal
33:14
Speaker 1: obviously is going to make both sides unhappy in a way,
33:20
Speaker 1: not going to like it, so that's natural. And Ukraine
33:24
Speaker 1: was always going to have to give up something for peace.
33:26
Speaker 1: But is this Trump, do you'll struck that balance?
33:30
Speaker 11: Well?
33:30
Speaker 10: Andrew, great to be with you and with your indulgence.
33:33
Speaker 10: Just one second, just one second on your earlier debate.
33:36
Speaker 10: I have the greatest admiration and affection for Michael Kroger,
33:39
Speaker 10: but I think he's dead wrong. The Liberals have to
33:42
Speaker 10: fight and win on net zero. If they don't change
33:44
Speaker 10: people's minds about net zero, they won't win. They can't
33:48
Speaker 10: say the public are against us on that, so we're
33:50
Speaker 10: not going to talk about it. That's their recipe for defeat. Now,
33:54
Speaker 10: look on Ukraine. This is a terrible deal that Trump
33:57
Speaker 10: has proposed, and it shows how really pathetic the West
34:03
Speaker 10: has been in its support of Ukraine. The Biden administration,
34:06
Speaker 10: then the Trump administration, and the Europeans have never given
34:09
Speaker 10: the Ukrainians the weapons and the money they need to
34:13
Speaker 10: get a decisive advantage which would make Putin negotiate. The
34:18
Speaker 10: Trump has never seriously put pressure on China about buying
34:22
Speaker 10: Russian oil. The sanctions have been half hearted. God alone
34:26
Speaker 10: knows why Trump wouldn't give Tomahawk missiles to Ukraine. It
34:31
Speaker 10: seems to me that Putin has been successful in threatening
34:34
Speaker 10: the West, the escalation threat, whereas the West has been
34:38
Speaker 10: totally unsuccessful in threatening Putin. And the final point I'd
34:42
Speaker 10: make to you, this is a very dangerous moment for
34:44
Speaker 10: Marco Rubio. Rubio is the best person in the Trump administration.
34:48
Speaker 10: This deal that Trump has proposed shocking, scandalous deal rightly
34:52
Speaker 10: condemned by Tony Abbott in The Australian Today, shocking, self seeking, greedy, foolish,
35:00
Speaker 10: surrendering deal which guarantees long term the Putin will invaded
35:04
Speaker 10: Ukraine again. Rubio would hate this with every fiber of
35:08
Speaker 10: his being. And now he's at the moment of contradiction
35:11
Speaker 10: which good men who work for Trump always come to. Eventually,
35:15
Speaker 10: Trump has got a seedy, grubby, semi corrupt deal on
35:19
Speaker 10: the table and he wants a good man like Rubio
35:21
Speaker 10: to sell the deal. The only sliver of hope I
35:24
Speaker 10: have is that Trump is so unreliable and so inconstant
35:29
Speaker 10: that now that he sees there's so much pushback against
35:32
Speaker 10: the deal, and he's weaker than he was even six
35:34
Speaker 10: months ago. He could change again and go back to
35:38
Speaker 10: supporting Ukraine. But this is a really appalling way to
35:43
Speaker 10: treat Ukraine and to try to get peace.
35:47
Speaker 1: But I think we should underland a point you just
35:49
Speaker 1: touched on briefly there Europe. This is Europe's shame that
35:55
Speaker 1: so many countries, so powerful, so rich, don't have the
35:58
Speaker 1: military or the wherewith all to help save Ukraine itself,
36:02
Speaker 1: a European country without Donald Trump. That is just disgraceful.
36:06
Speaker 1: Or can they now? I don't know.
36:09
Speaker 10: Well, I agree with you absolutely, this is Europe's failure.
36:13
Speaker 1: That's absolutely right.
36:14
Speaker 10: So an immense element of truth in what Trump says,
36:17
Speaker 10: because Trump is good and bad. He says and does
36:19
Speaker 10: good things, and he says and does bad things. When
36:22
Speaker 10: he says to the Europeans, you people have been slack
36:25
Speaker 10: security free writers writing on the American effort in military matters.
36:30
Speaker 10: He's absolutely right. Australia is in exactly the same class.
36:33
Speaker 10: We make no effort, We make less of an effort
36:36
Speaker 10: than some of the Europeans. We make no serious effort
36:38
Speaker 10: to defend ourselves. We rely absolutely on the Americans. But Still,
36:43
Speaker 10: it would have been better if Trump had said to
36:45
Speaker 10: the Europeans, now, look, here are here's what I'm going
36:49
Speaker 10: to do, and this is reliable. You can take it
36:51
Speaker 10: to the bank. Now it's up to you guys to
36:53
Speaker 10: provide this amount of support to Ukraine. He's badgered the
36:59
Speaker 10: Europeans that they have increased their defense effort. But I
37:02
Speaker 10: also agree with you, Andrew, if Trump does pull out
37:04
Speaker 10: of Ukraine altogether, these rich European nations have the resources
37:09
Speaker 10: to bankroll Ukraine themselves. But of course they're all the
37:12
Speaker 10: same as the Albanese government. They'll be saying, look, we've
37:15
Speaker 10: got a finance full paid maternity leave, or transgender education
37:22
Speaker 10: or net zero fantasies or some other mad thing. We're
37:26
Speaker 10: not going to spend any money on preserving freedom in Europe.
37:32
Speaker 1: Great amount of time, but just very quickly, I'd like
37:36
Speaker 1: to hear from you on this. Chris Bowen agreeing to
37:40
Speaker 1: be the United Nations President of Climate negotiations up to
37:44
Speaker 1: next year's big climate conference. Is this a good move
37:47
Speaker 1: for Australia or a distraction from what Bowe should be
37:49
Speaker 1: trying to fix back at home. It's suttenly ludicrous.
37:53
Speaker 10: Here we are in a cost of living crisis per
37:57
Speaker 10: capita standard of living going backwards most of the last
38:00
Speaker 10: four years, energy prices soaring through the roof, much higher
38:04
Speaker 10: than they are in comparable countries like Canada or the
38:06
Speaker 10: United States or anyone in Asia, a collapsing energy grid,
38:11
Speaker 10: and we can't even manage to have a full time
38:13
Speaker 10: energy minister in the cabinet. So the Coalition was one
38:17
Speaker 10: hundred percent right to home in on this Today.
38:20
Speaker 1: Now you might.
38:21
Speaker 10: Argue it's better to have old Chris Bowen out of
38:23
Speaker 10: the country than in the country. But the Albanese government
38:25
Speaker 10: cannot sustain the idea that Australia doesn't need a full
38:29
Speaker 10: time energy minister.
38:30
Speaker 1: That is just ludicrous, particularly when his job will be
38:35
Speaker 1: talking up the need to give lots of money to
38:38
Speaker 1: Pacific Island countries that aren't quite in the danger that
38:41
Speaker 1: he claims they are. And guess which country we'll have
38:44
Speaker 1: to show lead by example by coughing up more of
38:47
Speaker 1: our cash. Greg Sheridan, thank you so much for your time,
38:50
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. After the break, you know that the
38:55
Speaker 1: way Pauline Hanson was shut down today, what is the
38:59
Speaker 1: establishment so scared of? I talked earlier in the show
39:07
Speaker 1: to My Nation leader paul In Hanson about why she
39:10
Speaker 1: wore a burker into the Senate yet again, Let's now
39:14
Speaker 1: talk about that with a panel sconews regular Joe Hildebrand
39:17
Speaker 1: another sconews regular Louise Roberts, Joe rude, crude and kick
39:25
Speaker 1: around or did you see the irony of the Senate
39:28
Speaker 1: kicking out Pauline Hanson for wearing the burker after refusing
39:33
Speaker 1: to even talk about a bill to ban the burker
39:36
Speaker 1: in public spaces.
39:38
Speaker 13: Yeah, look, it's replete with a lot of ironies, I think,
39:42
Speaker 13: But the principal question I have is sort of what's
39:45
Speaker 13: the point. I'm not outraged by Pauline Hanson Hanson's actions,
39:50
Speaker 13: and she's clearly got the attention she was looking for,
39:52
Speaker 13: so good honor, well played, But nor do I think
39:55
Speaker 13: that this is a particularly important subject that is needs
40:00
Speaker 13: to deal with right now. We have far more pressing concerns.
40:04
Speaker 13: Cost of living is obviously number one. But even if
40:06
Speaker 13: you want to talk about things like social cohesion and
40:08
Speaker 13: community cohesion, you know, if you're talking about things like,
40:12
Speaker 13: you know, anti semitism in our community, I'm not sure
40:15
Speaker 13: how banning the burker fixes that, or how talking about
40:19
Speaker 13: banning the burker fixes it. And I think it also, ironically,
40:23
Speaker 13: I think plays into a narrative among some Muslims that
40:27
Speaker 13: they perpetuate that they're the ones being oppressed, that you know,
40:30
Speaker 13: the evil West is trying to oppress them and not
40:35
Speaker 13: let them express themselves. And when you have sort of silly,
40:38
Speaker 13: sideshowed debates like this, I think it feeds into that
40:41
Speaker 13: victimhood narrative which is often used to excuse terrible, terrible actions. So,
40:46
Speaker 13: you know, fine stunts happen in politics all the time,
40:49
Speaker 13: but I don't really see how it will do anything
40:51
Speaker 13: particularly good and may end up just backfiring.
40:56
Speaker 1: Luis. There's something in what Joe says. I mean that
40:59
Speaker 1: I don't know whether we should always limit ourselves to
41:01
Speaker 1: the one or two hot topics and ignore the rest.
41:04
Speaker 1: But that said, this idea that Portly Hanson was told
41:10
Speaker 1: by the President of the Senate, Look, it's a religious garment,
41:13
Speaker 1: so you must promise not to wear it, which you
41:14
Speaker 1: didn't give that promise. You wouldn't. But it's not a
41:17
Speaker 1: religiously mandated garment. It is a customary one is a
41:22
Speaker 1: one dictator by culture, not the faith. According to a
41:26
Speaker 1: lot of interpretations I've seen from Muslim scholars, the burkers
41:29
Speaker 1: in fact banned in twenty four countries is Hansen, including
41:33
Speaker 1: Islamic ones. I haven't seen figures quite that high, but
41:36
Speaker 1: ones that have include not just Austria, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark,
41:43
Speaker 1: but even Muslim countries such as Tunisia and Tajikistan. Why
41:47
Speaker 1: not in Australia. Why won't our Senate even debate it?
41:51
Speaker 1: What's the fear here?
41:53
Speaker 14: Well, I think the fear is they're worried that it
41:56
Speaker 14: will be under constitutional and that will open up a
41:59
Speaker 14: legal mind for if this garment is banned, and I
42:02
Speaker 14: mean cross party and cross benches and Greens and Labor
42:05
Speaker 14: and so forth are already worried about inflaming a situation.
42:08
Speaker 14: I can see that point here. But at the same time,
42:11
Speaker 14: if they do ever decide to debate it, and I
42:13
Speaker 14: agree with Joe, there's no urgency in my view to
42:15
Speaker 14: debate this topic at the moment. There's plenty more things
42:17
Speaker 14: we should be worried about. When if they do debate it,
42:20
Speaker 14: then get the facts out there. If it's a bad
42:23
Speaker 14: idea to ban the burker get the information from the
42:26
Speaker 14: security forces who say it's not an id issue. You know,
42:30
Speaker 14: it's not a national emergency to ban the burker. And
42:32
Speaker 14: you know, to Joe's point as well, that if we
42:35
Speaker 14: do inflame this situation, there are going to be some
42:37
Speaker 14: vulnerable people who perhaps are going to be, you know,
42:39
Speaker 14: in a very difficult situation. But I don't think Parliament
42:42
Speaker 14: should be scared of debating topics either. To that point,
42:45
Speaker 14: I think in a democracy we should be able to
42:48
Speaker 14: have a proper discussion, respectful and debating it doesn't mean
42:52
Speaker 14: you actually want to ban it. So I do think
42:54
Speaker 14: those politicians who are being a bit sort of wooly
42:56
Speaker 14: about it perhaps really should have a look at why
42:58
Speaker 14: they're elected to Parliament all of a sudden in the first place.
43:02
Speaker 1: John picking up something there when Luisa's inflame it. And
43:06
Speaker 1: there's two ways one could say it'd be inflamed. One
43:09
Speaker 1: is that it incites anti Muslim feeling against women and
43:13
Speaker 1: burkers in the street, and I think that would be awful.
43:15
Speaker 1: That's what cowards would do, you know, I would hate that.
43:20
Speaker 1: But too often I see I feel when a lot
43:23
Speaker 1: of these debates are screamed down that there's an idea
43:28
Speaker 1: that Australia is now a tinder box ready to explode
43:32
Speaker 1: if you offend certain groups, and that I'm thinking, is
43:36
Speaker 1: that why we have so many restrictions and free speech? Now?
43:40
Speaker 1: Have we really created an explosive mix in this country?
43:44
Speaker 1: And what's the real issue? Who's really at fault for that? Yeah?
43:50
Speaker 13: Look, I certainly I don't think that pretty much anything
43:52
Speaker 13: as long as it's done respectfully and there's no incitement
43:55
Speaker 13: to hatred or violence, I don't think there should be
43:57
Speaker 13: any real restrictions on what we can and can't debate
43:59
Speaker 13: in this country. And again that becomes counterproductive too because
44:03
Speaker 13: people start to think, well, well that you know, those
44:05
Speaker 13: people over there there are protective species, but I'm not,
44:08
Speaker 13: and that actually creates more divisions. And I think it's
44:11
Speaker 13: fair to say that in France, for example, which is
44:14
Speaker 13: the largest country I think to have banned the burker,
44:16
Speaker 13: certainly in the west, you know, has that stopped tensions
44:19
Speaker 13: in the community, Has that prevented them being resentments in
44:23
Speaker 13: the large Muslim community in France? Well, of course not.
44:25
Speaker 13: In fact, you know, some of the incidents over there
44:27
Speaker 13: are among the most infamous and certainly far worse than
44:30
Speaker 13: anything we're dealing with here. My position is, just like
44:34
Speaker 13: freedom of speech and freedom of expression to talk about
44:36
Speaker 13: these things, that you should have that freedom of expression
44:39
Speaker 13: to wear whatever you want to wear, as long as
44:42
Speaker 13: you know you're not walking into a bank to rob
44:44
Speaker 13: it and trying to disguise yourself. And I think there
44:46
Speaker 13: should have to be obviously sensible exemption so that people
44:50
Speaker 13: can be identified. But failing that, you know, if I
44:53
Speaker 13: want to wear a Batman mask, or someone wants to
44:55
Speaker 13: wear a burker, they should be able to. And I
44:58
Speaker 13: mean it's not unprecedented that though to be fair, that
45:01
Speaker 13: that governments have banned other items of clothing or dress.
45:05
Speaker 13: Peter the Great, the Czar of Russia, famously banned beards
45:08
Speaker 13: and forced everyone who kept a beard to pay a
45:11
Speaker 13: beard cat, and the great father of modern Turkey and Mustaffer,
45:15
Speaker 13: Kamil Allis, banned the fears. And in both cases this
45:19
Speaker 13: was because these were leaders who felt embarrassed by these
45:24
Speaker 13: articles of clothing or styles of dress as being seen
45:27
Speaker 13: to be backwards and not modern. And I suppose you
45:30
Speaker 13: could apply that same argument to the burker, and clearly
45:33
Speaker 13: some countries have and equally, you know that freedom also
45:38
Speaker 13: means that women shouldn't be forced to wear the burker
45:40
Speaker 13: if they don't want to, and I've got no doubt
45:42
Speaker 13: that a bit of that goes on behind closed doors.
45:45
Speaker 13: But I also think there'd be a lot of Muslim
45:46
Speaker 13: women who simply don't feel comfortable not wearing it, and
45:49
Speaker 13: I think it's unfair to them to force them must.
45:51
Speaker 1: Have it to ban the fez also because he wanted
45:54
Speaker 1: to break the power of the clerics of the people.
45:57
Speaker 1: So he also said, if you're going to give a sermon,
45:59
Speaker 1: no more in Narra, you do it in Turkish, So
46:01
Speaker 1: people cann't understand it. Was a great man, but his legacy,
46:04
Speaker 1: of course has been rowed back. But on the attentions,
46:09
Speaker 1: Louise Joe mentioned resentment, So I think there is a
46:14
Speaker 1: lot of resentment out there, some of it not justifying,
46:16
Speaker 1: some are surely justified. I mentioned this because already in
46:21
Speaker 1: Victoria right two big public hospitals have ruled that all
46:26
Speaker 1: aboriginal patients in emergency get Priority three urgency three out
46:30
Speaker 1: of that stage three out of five to get faster
46:34
Speaker 1: treatment than on average than people who are not aboriginal
46:37
Speaker 1: or don't identify as such. Now, I learned this week
46:40
Speaker 1: the my local public health network, Peninsular Health has a
46:43
Speaker 1: policy of also hiring more people claiming to be Aboriginal
46:46
Speaker 1: two percent of its staff at once. You know, the
46:48
Speaker 1: doctors and nurses administrators should be Aboriginal two percent, even
46:52
Speaker 1: though Aborigines only make up one percent of the population.
46:55
Speaker 1: And the Victorian Public Service goes in whether it is
46:58
Speaker 1: three percent of public servants should be Aboriginal, so Aboriginies
47:02
Speaker 1: would get three times more chance of being hired. I mean,
47:04
Speaker 1: does any of this sound sane or fair or likely
47:08
Speaker 1: lead to a diminution of resentments.
47:12
Speaker 14: I think it will lead to a lot of resentment.
47:14
Speaker 14: As you say, Andrew, I think anything any situation we've
47:17
Speaker 14: got a priority triage or priority job applications and people
47:21
Speaker 14: getting pushed at the top of the list based on
47:24
Speaker 14: category rather than need, people get very resentful. And Australians
47:28
Speaker 14: are a fair minded people. We like people to be
47:30
Speaker 14: treated based on merit, not because of their race or
47:33
Speaker 14: gender or category or whatever you'd like to call it.
47:36
Speaker 14: So it will definitely cause an issue. And the fairness thing,
47:41
Speaker 14: as you say, is absolutely paramount. We want people to
47:43
Speaker 14: be treated fairly. We don't want people being discriminated for
47:46
Speaker 14: or against for anything like that job's health, whatever, housing.
47:52
Speaker 1: Joe Hildebrand, you've got thirty seconds. What do you make
47:55
Speaker 1: of all that?
47:56
Speaker 13: Well, look, in terms of prioritizing aboriginal patients, the fact
47:59
Speaker 13: of the matter is being Aboriginal does make you more
48:02
Speaker 13: likely to suffer from poor health, including living ten years
48:06
Speaker 13: fewer on this planet than the rest of us. In
48:09
Speaker 13: terms of the job quotas, though, I think they'll find that,
48:12
Speaker 13: in fact, there probably aren't enough Aboriginal doctors to fill them.
48:15
Speaker 13: So we need to look at the education system, making
48:18
Speaker 13: sure we're getting Aboriginal kids through schools right to year twelve,
48:22
Speaker 13: getting them into UNI, and making sure that we've got
48:25
Speaker 13: the workforce there instead of just saying, oh, we're just
48:27
Speaker 13: going to put a target over here and suddenly they'll
48:29
Speaker 13: just materialize. It's much more complex than that.
48:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'd rather doctors or even employers treat the
48:37
Speaker 1: individual that's standing in front of them rather than the
48:39
Speaker 1: category of people and ascribe to them tribal sort of characteristics.
48:43
Speaker 1: So I think that's racist. Joe Hildebrand, Lewis Roberts, thank
48:46
Speaker 1: you to you both. That's it from me now, Sherry
48:50
Speaker 1: Marks and good note