Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #209: Hormones in Your Milk Are BACK - And Small Farmers Are Under Fire

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Episode #209: Hormones in Your Milk Are BACK - And Small Farmers Are Under Fire · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody, to another Beyond Labels podcast with yours truly, Joel Salatin, the farmer, and our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Today we're gonna we've got a got a kind of two-part, uh, maybe even a three-part um episode for you.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, Cena's been working on updating her uh first book, Hands Off My Food, uh, which is now several years old.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and as part of the research to update it and get it current, she's been delving into some new shenanigans going on with recombinant bovine growth hormone.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe you remember when RBGH was the big topic in the dairy industry uh back several years ago.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's uh it's actually making a little bit of a comeback.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna look at that.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Next, we're gonna finish up some of our discussion about the Maha Commission report, uh, the HHS uh report that that what can be done in the food system.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have a couple little updates of some uh some things going on at the state level.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, just in you know, in the in the abattoir, also known as a slaughterhouse um segment of agriculture that is quite disturbing.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that's how we'll end.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know, we don't want to end disturbance, but I guess anyway, uh here we go.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Cena, what have you got here with the uh RBGH update?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Joel.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I am not thrilled to share this story with you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So for any of us who thought hormones in our milk were just a 1990s relic, like frosted tips and dial-up internet, surprise, recombinant bovine growth hormone is making a comeback.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was the first ever genetically engineered hormone that was added to our food supply.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And now it is under new ownership and it's being remarketed to the U.S.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: dairies.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it never really fully went away.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: About 1% of dairies still use it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But as I'm going to outline for you today, we thought this fight was done and over, and it's not.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: The FDA still allows RBGH, and labeling that identifies milk treated or milk from cows treated with RBGH remains voluntary.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is actually the story that is near and dear to my heart because it is the story that lifted my veil of unearned trust in our food supply.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel, it started with the simple act of reading a milk label.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So hence the title Beyond Labels.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that and I'm sure if you and if anybody's ever read their milk label, it's usually on the front of that label, they'll see a statement that says something like according to the FDA, there's no significant difference in milk from RBGH treated cows and non-RBGH treated cows.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: FDA has determined that food products from cows treated with RBGH are safe for human consumption.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll say something along that lines.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's a disclaimer on the label.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I encourage all of you.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Does that does that normally mean that that milk probably does have RBGH in it?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So even so the when I first found that label, it was on organic milk.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they have to put that disclaimer on there.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um if let's say a company wants to say there's no um no um synthetic RBGH added to our milk or there's no synthetic hormones in our milk, they have to legally um put that disclaimer on there.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's supposed to be a voluntary disclaimer, and as we're gonna see, it turned out to be uh non-voluntary.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It turned out to be mandatory, in fact, due to lawsuits.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: But so I encourage you if you have milk uh that you get from the grocery store in particular, um, look at your label now and see if you can find that disclaimer on there.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joel, when I first read that disclaimer, a red flag raised in my head, even though at that time I thought there was no politics in food.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Could you imagine?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to explain it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: What a naive child.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: How far I've come, right?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: If I can do it, anyone can.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, indeed.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, a red flag raised in my hand.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, huh, if these two things are the same, if the milk from treated cows and non-treated cows are the same, why are they to tell me that they're the same, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Someone must be hiding something.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I went down a rabbit hole, and we're gonna talk about some of the things I found today.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I want to point this out is because, as I mentioned off the top of the program, we thought this issue was dead.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Food activists don't even really talk about RBGH anymore because they think it's a relic of the past, but it is making a comeback.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a direct quote I'm gonna share soon from the company who's manufacturing it now.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: So RBGH is this genetically engineered home hormone given to dairy cows.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is not given to them to improve their health.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is for an economic purpose.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is to increase the amount of milk that they actually produce.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: We now have numerous studies that are supporting a connection between RBGH and different cancers, like colon cancer, breast cancer, childhood cancers, and prostate cancer.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, a connection doesn't prove causality, okay?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I have read enough of the studies where we do not consume any dairy or dairy products.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking cheese, yogurt, butter, um, any processed foods that might have milk powders that have been added to them.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And think of how many those are going to be, Joel, right?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: If like just around 60% of the typical adult diet comes from processed foods.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And up around upwards of 70% of the child's diet comes from processed food.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Think of all of the foods that are processed that have uh powdered milks or milk components added to them.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: We don't consume any of those products that um I think might contain milk that came from RBGH treated cows.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one reason why is because the US is actually one of the only modernized countries that still allows RBGH in their dairy cows.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, the European Union, which is now made up of 27 countries, they all banned it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think about that, other countries won't allow their citizens to drink our milk if it came from cows treated with RBGH.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: But according to the FDA, it's good enough for Americans.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So the good news is that as consumer pushback occurred, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: This was like in the 90s and and such.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as this pushback occurred, the usage of RBGH in America sharply declined, right?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because we rejected it.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: At its peak, about a third of all dairy cows in the U.S.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: were treated with RBGH.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And by 2014, it declined to 15% by 2021.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And today it's only about 1% of U.S.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: milk sales come from farms using that hormone.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: The bad news is, as I said, it is making a comeback since 2018.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: This started, the manufacturer, the new manufacturer, has been on a mission to actually resurrect um RBGH.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: They've been firing up their US production.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And sadly, to say, that is here in Georgia.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like so um it's actually in the city where my in-laws live.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that new company has announced on their website, um, and the company is Union Agener, um, A-G-E-N-E-R.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: They have announced on their website, quote, now we are in full control of operations, and we will begin production of new Posilac batches.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Posilac is the the brand name for RBGH.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we will begin production of new Posilac batches to fully satisfy the demands of the American market.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's on their website, presumably from when they started this back up.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, by October of 2023, we can already see the return of what I call the machine, right?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: To push this um genetically engineered hormone out into our food supply.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: So by October 2023, the marketing part of the machine was alive and humming.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Half page, four-color ads for RBGH resurfaced in trade staples like the Hordes Dairyman, Progressive Dairymen, and the Dairy Star.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And these publications largely aimed squarely at commercial dairy producers, some of the same producers that are going to supply grocery stores.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And just like they did before, they're using science to try to promote this product as safe and effective and get this, Joel.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the new angle is it's going to help combat climate change.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So in July of 2025, so just last month, there was a science review article assuring the world that we got it wrong, and RBGH is actually harmless to cows, harmless to humans.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And as a bonus, it will increase the farmer's revenue while minimizing the carbon footprint of dairy production.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: They make it sound like a wonder drug.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then you realize that all three of the authors of that scientific review have ties to companies that made and sold RBGH.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: The first one was uh Robert uh Colliert, he was a former Monsanto employee, later a consultant for Elanco, who bought RBGH from Monsanto.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's Dale Bauman, he was a former Monsanto consultant, and Lance Baumgard, who, quote, periodically consults for Elanco, and he even sat on its dairy advisory board.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure there's no bias whatsoever in that 2025 scientific review.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: They've all they've all drunk the same Kool-Aid, you can be assured of that.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And as I mentioned, this is the same tactics that were used in the 1990s by Monsanto, who was the original manufacturer of RBGH.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: They controlled the narrative by controlling the messaging of the media, both print and TV, by squashing news stories, even that spoke negatively about RBGH.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was an example of how Fox News squashed the story because of pressure from them.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they also used reputable journals and scientists to back their cause.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, in 1990, in um JAMA, which is a the journal of American Medical Association, they um JAMA in this article encouraged health professionals to engage in the controversy over RBGH by, quote, assuring the public that RBGH is safe.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: The authors in this um article said the following health professionals can play an important role in reassuring the public about the safety of milk and refuting misstatements or misconceptions about BST, which is another abbreviation for RBGH.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, who wrote that article?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Two scientists, Dr.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um Dagade and Dr.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Barbano, they were not affiliated with the FDA, but they were reported to be Monsanto consultants.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So again, we're seeing a repeat of the 1990s playbook as this new company, it's a Brazilian-owned company now.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: How as they are fighting to put RBG RBGH back into our food supply.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I actually contacted the manufacturer and asked specific questions.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they said to me directly, quote, Posilak never left the US market.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: We are currently selling approximately 1.5 million doses per year in the USA alone.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hazelak is here to stay.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's they're determined, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: They already got the machine working, you know, pumping out this information, uh, what I would call propaganda here.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So by my calculations, the current dosage they have is roughly one cow in every hundred.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: But remember, those cows are high-yielding cows that can produce more than another uh cow who's not treated.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they can produce more milk.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, my question for you, Joel, is when when farmers like these large industrial farmers, when they are milking their cows, and then I'm assuming it's now going to be shipped to some kind of processing facility, um, I'm assuming the milk gets bulked together, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: It gets put together into like a bulk tank.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Does the milk from different farms get mixed together and then put into the products that we see on the grocery store shelves?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it what we see on the shelf, does that literally come from one farm?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like that jug of milk came from one farm.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's completely mixed together.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a McDonald's hamburger that has pieces of 600 animals in the average McDonald's hamburger.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: It all gets mixed together.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that makes it a little worse because to this day now now to that point, it is it is normally segregated, uh, especially a big dairy that would use something like this.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was normally be segregated until it got to the processor.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: They would pull a sample, they would run a couple little lab tests at you know for uh antibiotics or extra water or you know, uh uh somatic cell count, uh, which is basically uh infection.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they'd run they run a little sample there quick uh at the processing plant before the tractor trailer dumps.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: But once those tests are negative and that takes just a few minutes, then that tractor trailer dumps that milk in a in a a silo, a silo of milk, and it's you know, it's a it's a refrigerated silo and it's all mixed together.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so to your point there, there is no approved assay still to detect RBGH in milk.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, in other words, what they're saying is that the the your point is well well taken.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just to want to make sure our people are following us here, even though it's only used in one percent of the milk, it is mixed with perhaps 80% of the milk.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so and the problem is so two twofold.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is there is no uh, I would say, rigorous regulation of RBGH at this point.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is still based on a farmer signing a piece of paper saying that he's not using the R um RBGH on his cows.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a paper trail, and you have to trust that the farmer is um if they sign that piece of paper, you have to trust that they're telling the truth.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's step number one.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: To me, um, I don't trust it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's no enforcement there.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: They're not my local farmer.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't trust the big um industrial complex.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, number two, there is still no legally approved um residue tests.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it this was a big deal when this RBGH issue first came out um in the 90s, and we had people going in front of Congress and fighting this.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: We had people requesting Freedom of Information Acts to fight this.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of the things they learned is that legally the FDA was supposed to approve a residue test so that independent third-party labs had the option to test to see if there were RBGH uh residuals in the milk.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: The FDA just said that they didn't have to um approve it because Monsanto said that there was no toxicity.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get into that in a minute, what came out in court.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: But because of the manufacturer's assurance that it was safe, the FDA said there's no no need for a residue test.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, to your point, as the milk is mixed together and they they test it first, they are not testing for residues of RBGH.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so who knows what's actually in there?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's the whole point here.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's go into and and the the the point the the the the whatever the sleight of hand, the clever speak here is when they say, well, only one percent of the cows are are are are getting it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that sounds like, well, it's so small, why would it even think about it?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if that 1% is mixing with 80%, then suddenly 80% of the milk is tainted.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of clever speak and word speak that these you know sharp industry people use.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they get they get the best of the best, you know, and and how they frame it uh has everything to do with public perception of risks.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why this story is so important to bring to our viewers now, so to make them aware so they can start telling like their CSAs, you know, their dairy farmers, whoever they get their milk from, they can start telling them, Look, there's a big push for it again that it's recently started, and we need to push back now before it gains any more momentum.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's tell them.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you this that you know, having friends in the in the industry that are you know uh small, grass-based, whatever, um the the amount of of animal um uh breakdown uh of all sorts of things, uh reproductive, um uh skeletal uh bones, um immunological function.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: There the there again, we we've talked about the clear data pattern.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It it was so overwhelming that RBGH broke down the cows.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you you can't you you can't run, I mean, even even a even an automobile, even a machine, and cows not a machine, but even a machine, you shorten the lifespan of it if you keep the pedal to the floorboard all the time.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Your car is gonna run half as many miles if you run it wide open with the floor, with the engine running full board.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and and that's what this does with the cows, it it burns them out.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and so those reactions were so profound that that you know, organic, grass-based, anybody that's that's kind of a a smaller, you know, that that's not in the in the big industry, I don't know anybody that uses this stuff because it it caused some so many uh vet bills.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: The vet bills just go through the roof.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think for it's uh correct me if I'm wrong, Joel, but I would think for big the big industry, there's less at stake when they wear out a cow versus a small family farm.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: If their cow wears out, it's a bigger deal for them to have to replace that cow versus big industry replacing cows, you know, because they get a lot more milk production out of those cows.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a it may be worth the trade-off for them.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well the number uh again, scale, you know, so they so they can afford a million-dollar robotic milker, which replaces people.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now your cost of your cost of milking goes down because you've got this robot automatic, but you can only afford it if you have if you're milking a thousand cows.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and and so, so again, it all plays to the you know to the scale of um to the efficiencies of scale, which the system does not account for on an expense side, the expense of corn and soybean subsidies, the expense of uh the expense of depreciation, the expense of unemployment, the expense of you know, all uh I mean uh all these things, uh the the just the care, the the human care that a cow requires, um you know, that expense, all of that gets pushed aside in the you know, when you scale up and you view the cow as a machine and you view the th the whole program as an industry, as a factory, and it's an input, output.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's not it's not a cycle, it's not a biological cycle, it it's it's just a mechanical thing.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, it gives the semblance of of um being whatever profitable, but it's a it's a false, it it's a charade of profitability because so many things aren't being accounted for.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you have to kind of view the cows as a machine if you're willing to stand by and Watch these medical conditions develop, you know, upon giving this synthetic hormone.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's over 20 medical conditions that have been documented in the cows treated with RBGH, including reproductive issues, increased mastitis, digestive issues, orthopedic problems, where sometimes they've got hoof problems so severe the cow can't walk, um, shortened lifespan, and so forth.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um in essence, the the sick cows produce sick milk.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: So as you said, there's um there's reportedly there's been a 33% increase, greater chance of developing mastitis compared to non-treated cows, uh, you know, like in inflammation of the mammary gland.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's um the increased risk of infection has even been reported to be as high as 80%.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And regardless of the exact value, it's a big deal because when there's infections like mastitis, as you said, it can lead to pus and bacteria and even blood getting into the milk that we drink.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um even even back in the day, so in 94, 1994, when this is a huge issue, there's an article in Nature that reported significantly more pus cells in the milk.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the government knows this.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they said that they've handled it because they set a limit that only allows about 178 million somatic cells per cup of milk.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So don't worry about it because there's a cap on the amount of these somatic cells that could be in your milk, you know.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure we all trust the government to create a healthy cap on that level, right?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: So don't worry.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, the European Union, yeah, that that count of 178 uh million, that's a somatic called a somatic cell count, which measures the pus in milk.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the EU, I think it's about a third of that.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like 50.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: So our ours is like three times three times more uh allowable, which is one reason why the US has trouble exporting uh powdered milk, uh, because the EU won't take it because it's so full of pus.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it's fine for us.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and you know, this we're seeing this pattern, at least I hope we're uh prevent presenting this pattern on this show, that our governing bodies tend to change the regulations to suit the needs of industry.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of establishing regulations to protect our health.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that regulation dictates that or is an example of that.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have the one about antibiotic residues.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, in order to treat the mastitis, more antibiotics were used, which means antibiotics or their byproducts can be passed down into the milk.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, in these cows treated with RBGH, the level, the use of antibiotics increased so much that the antibiotic level in that milk climbed to levels that were not allowed by the FDA.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a big deal because of the creation of superbugs, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: That some of these animal products that we're eating have been shown through the scientific literature to be contaminated with bacteria that we can't kill with common antibiotics.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is a translational genomics research institute, and they tested 80 brands of chicken, beef, pork, and turkey from five cities.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this was back when 2011.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to emphasize these were meats from the grocery store.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: These were not from a local farm.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So meats from the grocery store, 47% of the meat was contaminated with Staphylococcus areas.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a bacteria that can cause pneumonia and sepsis.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And 52% of the bacteria found on the meat were resistant to three or more whole classes of uh classes of antibiotics.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the study concluded that you had roughly a 25% chance of consuming potentially fatal bacteria that's antibiotic resistant when you bought meat from one of those 80 brands that were tested.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a big deal.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why the FDA sets an allowable level of antibiotics and their residues in our milk supply.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Part of that is to try to help curb this rise in superbugs.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what they did was the in the response to the rising levels of antibiotics, the FDA didn't tell Monsanto that they had to stop using growth hormone and they didn't place the moratorium on the sale of this milk until that problem was resolved.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, they just changed the allowable level.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: They changed the regulation just like they did with glyphosate, just like they did with GMOs.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: They changed it from one part per 100 million to one part per per million.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: So 100 times more antibiotics in your milk from that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: All right, crazy, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and this will be no surprise to you and our listeners, but the individual responsible for changing that regulation was a scientist working for the FDA named Dr.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Margaret Miller.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And before she worked for the FDA, she worked for, can you guess?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'll bet she worked for the local uh animal health shelter.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, of course, she worked for Monsanto, where she conducted research on none other than RBGH.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can't make this stuff up.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's it's so it's so blatant.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's why that's why the backlash against RFK Jr.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: and what he's trying to bring to HHS, that's why the backlash is so it's so outrageous.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that this stuff has been done just blatantly, and uh they own Washington, you know, they just do.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: And and so uh any look, do I agree with everything he's doing?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do I no no no no no, but but um the fact that he's facing such a backlash of no, you can't make these changes, you can't do this, you can't do that, uh, in light of what we know has been going on is is outrageous.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's yeah, when you know the backstory behind it, you're just it it's just appalling to me that people are pushing back so hard.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, I don't want to think that they're actually thinking this way, but sometimes it almost feels like they just don't even care that all these people are getting sick, you know, and all these children are getting sick.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, I know a lot of it's chasing the dollar, right?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but just think about that.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this this I was waiting for your shoe to drop there with the response that that I I knew it was coming.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: The FDA changed the allowable level, but think about that.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: That they didn't change it five percent or ten percent or even a hundred percent, they changed it at a hundred times.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it that's that's just that's in that's insanity.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, they definitely aren't serving us, uh you know, the the the the people who are paying for their salaries, we're not serving us.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so one thing I want I do want to bring up is that uh in 1985, in 1985, that was the year that the FDA approved the unrestricted sale of milk and meat from RBGH treated cows.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, at that time, so Monsanto had conducted experiments on cows across the United States, and in a 1992 report by the government accountability office, they actually told us that the FDA allowed Monsanto to sell that experimental meat and experimental milk to humans while the drug was still in the experimental phase.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: They said that they disagree with that FDA policy, but in essence, the FDA thinks that that's fine.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, what it means is that we unknowingly drank experimental milk and ate experimental meat for eight years, or at least some of us did.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And clearly the FDA didn't know, didn't think we had the right to know that we were drinking that.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and again, it was it was not approved.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was experiment in the experimental phase at this point.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: So the question is, how many other foods are we unknowingly consuming today that are coming from these types of experimental drug trials?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't know because the FDA says we don't have the right to know.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, and and and that's the big loophole.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we saw this with we saw this now with um uh you know with antibiotics in in uh with I'm sorry, mRNA.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: MRNA, we've we're seeing this in chicken, pork, and beef with the mRNA industry says, no, no, well, it's not it's not licensed, it's not licensed for use.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And again, clever speak, uh, not licensed for use as if, you know, go away, don't ask me more about this.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: It can't be in there because it's not licensed.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it's in an experimental stage, and all sorts of things can happen.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's what happened with COVID.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: The COVID MR MR Um jab, you know, didn't have to go through, you know, um uh all the rigorous testing because it was all experimental.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so experimental has now become uh used as a loophole.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, who isn't against experimenting?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: We all want to allow experimenting.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Experimenting's good.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you innovate, that's how you create, that's how you solve problems.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a there there's a wonderful positive messaging narrative around the idea of you gotta allow experimenting, but uh suddenly you have people eating all this stuff that um that that that there's material in it that they don't want and don't know about because it's all experimental.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now I'm gonna tell you one more thing about RBGH that might get people upset.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: You probably already know it.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um, okay, so I I mentioned that there's a connection between RBGH um uh milk from cows treated with RBGH and different cancers, for example, in in humans.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that connection is through IGF one, insulin like broke factor one.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this was a huge, huge back and forth debate um about between you know the FDA and consumer activists and scientific literature about are the IGF one levels in this milk even elevated?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and you know, and then also does RBGH break down when it's pasteurized in the milk?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, do organ weights actually change when the cow, you know, in the cow that's receiving this hormone, and then in the rat studies where um they were testing out this RBGH, you know, genetically engineered hormone.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because again, they use rats, you know, they use these rat studies to say that it was safe for us to consume.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: So just set that stage, all this back and forth, and the FDA would not admit in the reports that like the IGF one levels were even elevated in the milk.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, there's a science article written by FDA scientists that said IgF one is elevated in the milk.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then they said, oh, it's not orally active because um the organ weights of these rats didn't actually change.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we can't confirm that conclusion because we don't know the organ weights.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that was the big thing back in the 90s and such when they when this whole thing was coming out in the open and consumers are pushing it back.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the whole thing.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: What were the organ weights, right?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, files were allegedly stolen from the FDA and they were sent to Dr.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Samuel Epstein.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was the head of the Cancer Prevention Coalition at that time.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: He published those stolen files in the milkweed.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: The milkweed is run by Pete Hardin.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was in 1990.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: In those confidential files was the data that Monsanto submitted to the FDA to get approval of RBGH.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Those company files reveal that cows receiving RBGH did have enlarged organs, including the ovaries, the hearts, the livers, kidneys, and the adrenal glands.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, here's a quote: Ovary sizes in treated cows were obstensibly larger than ovaries in control cows.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very clear they get they were treated with this genetically engineered hormone, and their organ sizes increased.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: The files also confirmed there was reproductive problems.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for example, uh, here's a quote: 95% of control cows open at the start of the trial became pregnant.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: 52% of BGH or RBGH treated cows open at the start of the trial became pregnant.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: They also document in these company files the use of illegal drugs.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if drugs aren't working to help treat these cows, they go to these kind of illegal drugs.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: These were used by Monsanto employees on the test cows, and actually, one cow, it's documented in these files, received over 120 drug treatments in a single lactation.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Nearly half of those treatments were with illegal drugs.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: The file also said that there is up to a 1200-fold increase in the blood levels of RBGH following drug treatment during the experiments.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this was known by the FDA.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can't even make this up.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is like the worst soap opera ever.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: So this was known by the FDA.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you know what they did?
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: They said that there needed to be a withdrawal time for the meat and the milk of these cows that were treated with this hormone.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this was in the early 1980s.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: They said you have to withdraw it.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: They required the FDA required a five-day withdrawal period following the last injection of a treated dairy cow.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: For meat from those treated cows, they couldn't be slaughtered until 15 days after the last shot.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: They acknowledged the elevated blood hormone levels and they said that it could lead to elevated milk and meat labels.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: The mandatory withdrawal period was removed in 1985.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: And why?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because Monsanto wanted it removed.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they conducted a 28-day feeding study on rats, and they said, Oh, well, there's no oral activity, right?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: So when they consume it orally like we would, it's not active in the body.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the FDA said, Oh, okay, now there's a zero withdrawal period.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to um, you can inject them and then get the milk and then give it to our citizens.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: So now um it's with you look through what they did to determine that it was um that it was not orally active, they have a quote saying from the FDA scientists that at least 90% of RBGH activity is destroyed when it's pasteurized.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the RBGH residues don't present a human food safety concern.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: They got that number from a study that was conducted by Paul, I'm gonna totally butcher their name, um, Grona Wigan.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: That can't be right, but but that's how it's it's spelled out to me.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Grona Wigan.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: He was an undergraduate at the time.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Three of the co-authors had close ties to Monsanto, and they either conducted research for Monsanto or previously published with other Monsanto scientists.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is what they did.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: They heated the milk to around 157 degrees Fahrenheit for 25 to 30 minutes.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Joel, is that is that the standard US pasteurization protocol?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: 25 to 30 minutes at 158 degrees Fahrenheit.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's uh it's it's called um VAT pasteurization.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there's two kinds of pasteurizations that are that are acceptable.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: One is high temperature for 30 seconds, like for like 190, for which is which is what 95% or 98% of all pasteurization offers.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Vat pasteurization, because it's clunky and slow, is um is not used uh very much.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean you proved you're proving my point.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually about 30 seconds that they're pasteurizing this.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: They did 25 to 30 minutes, so they hated it um many times longer than what we would be consuming uh to try to intentionally destroy it.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the thing it didn't even work.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: It actually only destroyed 19% of the RBHT residues.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: So then what did they do?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: They added 146 times the level of naturally occurring RBGH, and they did it through a powdered form.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: They added this powdered form of RBGH to the milk, and then they heated it, and that powdered form was destroyed.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, look, it's destroyed upon heat treatment.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the FDA said, well, because you destroyed it when it's pasteurized, you do not have to do any further toxicology studies.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's a zero-day withdrawal period.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: So in the end, the FDA declared milk from RBGH treated cows to be safe based in part on unpublished industry data, partially disclosed organ weights, no long-term safety studies, and a pasteurization study where the milk was cooked somewhere around 120 times longer than normal, and then it was spiked with a powdered uh recombinant bovine growth hormone.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: That is your scientific research.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tax dollars hard at work, too.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and of the people, by the people, and for the people.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Here you are.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's amazing.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we got to wrap this RBGH up.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is that any more?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: What what um anything else?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: The point is that it's it's being manufactured.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: The company is aggressive.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the company that owns it isn't even an American company.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even an American company.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they are they are pushing it within the industry to um to bring it in.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and actually the company on their website, it says they are one of the uh it's it is it was acquired by Fernando de Castro Marquez, a majority shareholder of this company, Union um uh Againair, and it's one of the largest groups in the pharmaceutical industry in Brazil.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, so beware and read your labels.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's there's bound to be new dairy um producers that have come um into the market since we fought this issue previously.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: So some of them may not even be aware of all of this that's happening.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's great if we can start if we can try to push this out and educate people um on this topic to stop it in its tracks.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, lots of lots of stuff there.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of stuff.
• 42:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Have I overwhelmed you?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh all right, we've got about 15 minutes.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um you wanna you wanna uh go to the Maha Commission report and uh finish up the kind of the pesticide issue that we didn't get on?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so so hopefully this will be a little bit quick.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the pesticide issue in this um leaked Maha strategy report.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is the leaked version, the finalized one should come out in a few weeks, and then we'll reassess if there's been any changes.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the pesticide issue is making waves among you know defenders of um clean food and clean water, clean health.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's two quotes here I want to read to you.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the first one is it says under pesticides, EPA partnering with food and agricultural stakeholders.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they're gonna partner with food and agricultural stakeholders.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: They will work to ensure that the public has awareness and confidence in EPA's robust pesticide review procedures and how that relates to the limiting of risk for users and the general public.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: So everything's fine over here in our review process.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're just not aware of it, and right?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: So We're gonna educate you on what our review process really is so that you're more confident in the chemicals that are on your food.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's how I read that.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I agree with you.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's the that's the same take.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're just you're you're just an uninformed.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're just uninformed.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you just don't get it.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: We will inform you about our efficacy and all will be well.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh piggybacking on that, under EPA process improvements, what they say is they're going to work to reform the approval process for the full range of products to protect against weeds, pests, and disease, to increase the timely availability of more innovative growing solutions for farmers.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: So now they want to increase the timely availability by reforming the approval process for the full range of products against weeds, pests, and disease.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I read that as they're trying to get the products to market faster.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and and notice again, I mean, the the clever, the clever speak is so um is so amazing to watch to increase the timely availability of things that help farmers grow, help farmers grow things.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what sounds what sounds better than that?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who who doesn't want farmers to grow things?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's what far we all want farmers to grow things.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so to couch this as a you know, as a a tech as a as a schedule or a tech or a policy to help farmers grow things is um it's uh it's incredible.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if you if you're opposed to this, you're opposed to the farmer.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: No one wants to be opposed to the farmer.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I mean what they're trying to do is improve the process to help farmers kill things, but but in our in our twisted, you know, in our our twisted mentality, uh, we we say that in order to farmers that that the stuff that farmers put on to kill things is what actually enables farmers to grow things.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that a a crazy uh, you know, uh uh twist?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so so this to me it's more of the same.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of the same.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: And now they're going to make it faster to get these things approved.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, that means, okay, so what happened to looking at long-term health effects on these compounds?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what happened to over here in this report under Kennedy's department, they're saying they're gonna look at the cumulative exposure of the chemicals.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you're now approving things even faster, how are you gonna now assure us that there's long-term safety taken into account?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: And how are you gonna have time to look at the cumulative exposure uh to all these different chemicals?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like so to me, I'm thinking, hmm, I don't really know.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see how this is gonna work out.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, Zen, our friend Zen Honeycutt at Monts Across America, uh this really enraged her.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she wrote a blog about it and highlighted uh highlighted some points about the EPA themselves.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: She I just wanted to briefly read these uh so our listeners can better get a better under idea uh of how the EPA is working.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: So she said that Montecross America has met with the EPA five different times and also communicated with renowned uh scientists and lawyers about the process of the EPA, right?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, she's fighting back saying, um uh this isn't uh you know, like an issue of consumers don't understand, right?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, kind of don't belittle us.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: We understand.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And let me tell you what your process is in case you don't understand.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um this is what she says.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh just I'll just bullet point these quickly.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the EPA does not review the final formulation of any pesticide product.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've discussed that extensively.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, they do not review the synergistic effects of the multitude of chemicals in a formulation.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: We've discussed that.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Number three, the EPA pesticide review process does not require any long-term animal studies with blood analysis on the chemicals that they do review.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: She said the pesticide review board director admitted to them in person, they do not have a single long-term animal study with blood analysis on any formulation of Roundup.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: They only require short-term studies.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now they want to shorten the process even more.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, number four, according to another meeting they had with the EPA, they are not allowed to review studies on pesticides that show multi-generational effects.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, like there's been fourth generation effects of rats whose mothers consume Roundup.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: These were um effects of infertility.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but apparently they're not allowed to review them.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was new to me.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know they can't review multi-generational effect studies.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, number five, there's a French scientist, a Sarrelini, who has shown that heavy metals are present in Roundup formulations like arsenic that come from the petroleum sewage uh sludge ingredients.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know how they have the sludge that they often use as the fertilizer?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the arsenic's coming from that.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a known poison.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're saying those that that actually needs to be addressed, and they're not saying any of that here.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Number six, um, 100%, they they're claiming this.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: 100% of the new pesticides approved by this administration contain forever chemicals.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the chemicals that can cause cancer and hormone disruption, liver problems, thyroid problems, reproductive problems.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, number seven, the allowable levels of pesticides that the EPA allows are not based on health or independent science.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've covered that a lot.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Number eight, the allowable levels of pesticides, particularly glyphosate, do not take into account that the crop uptakes glyphosate and higher concentrations are found in the fruit or the seeds of the plant.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the allowable daily intake is thereby faulty.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good point.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, number nine, the EPA determination of allowable levels of pesticide residue fails to take into account that many of us, and they give percentages, have this MTHFR gene variant, which impairs ability to detox chemicals and heavy metals.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Number 10, there's two 10 and 11, then we're done.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Number 10, according to the government accountability office, and and this data is actually 10 years old, so who knows what it is now?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: The EPA has allowed over 4,000 pesticides for use under emergency use authorization, meaning they have no safety testing at all.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Many of these pesticides have been allowed for use for 12 years with zero safety studies.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is not a quote robust review process.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that little jab in there.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the final point she makes 1,157 approved pesticide ingredients are used in 57,331 pesticide-branded products for use in our food supply.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: At least 86 of those chemicals are banned in other countries because they cause serious health effects like infertility, birth defects, and sterility and other things, nervous system damages, autism symptoms, cancer.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Our research shows that 78% of those 86 chemicals cause reproductive damage.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: The other 22% may cause reproductive harm.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: So she's calling for them to at least ban those 86 pesticides that other countries have banned.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And she's saying farmers would still have over a thousand pesticide chemicals left in their toolbox to choose from, right?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's crazy when you put the numbers like that.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you see the numbers, that that's the cocktail of chemicals that you and I are talking about that's on the food that's not been tested.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think of that large number and trying to say, okay, now we're gonna test for cumulative effects, right?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: But now we're gonna shorten the process of how long it takes to get these chemicals on the market.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna do both?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and and and biology, you know, living things have their own timetable.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it took 30 years.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: It took 30 years to peg eagle eggs that wouldn't hatch and three-legged salamanders and infertile frogs to DDT.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: That took 30 years.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you can't, and and you know, that that's why that's why I'd like to just take every single thing we apply to the soil and everything we have in our food, and um, we need to have a an earthworm farm and uh have a hundred uh uh earthworm beds, and we'll we'll subject all this to earthworms and what they like we use, what they don't like we don't, and we just let the earthworms be the judge, and we can do it for a couple million dollars and be done with it.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we can walk out the you know, we don't have to do study, we don't have to do research, let's let the earthworms vote.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: Earthworms don't watch TV, they don't get uh they don't get uh uh uh money from K Street.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, they're the they're the ideal.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we can just say, I mean, like like, you know, this I'm thinking of um, for example, you know, in the in the in slaughterhouses, in um processing plants, um, you know, chlorine is used a lot as a disinfectant.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, even the the industry, you know, has used dredges of chlorine, up to 40 chlorine baths, you know, to to uh sanitize things.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and there's a new product called hypochloris, and it is an antimicrobial.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can drink it.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: You can drink it.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and it is now the darling.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, in the last two years, my understanding is I might be wrong on this, but my understanding is that the use of chlorine has dropped to the point where a lot of the even the big plants aren't even using chlorine anymore.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're using the hypochloris because it is so benign, it's worker-friendly, you know, it doesn't have to go behind a skull and crossbones, and it's just as effective as chlorine.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know all the chemical analysis of hypochloris, but um it's it's been it's been shown to be efficacious in eliminating bird flu.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: You put it in the water of the birds and and and they don't get bird flu.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but in all the organic and small um you know processing plants now we're using it.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, at our farm, we're um you know, last year we offered um freeze-dried eggs for the first time.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'd never offered them to try to to try to have a market for our extra spring flush of eggs.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, chickens lay a lot of extra eggs in the springtime, and you you know, you always have all these extra eggs.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so we actually started freeze-drying eggs last year and uh thinking, well, you know, we'll stockpile these and then you know, Christmas baking and stuff when we're short of eggs, you know, people can use the freeze uh powdered eggs, freeze-dried eggs.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they're there, I mean, when Teresa made the first batch of scrambled eggs for me for breakfast, I'm sitting there eating, I'm halfway through, and she, of course, she couldn't stand.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: She says, Well, you know anything different?
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do you I said, what am I supposed to notice different?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: What would you do?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I said, No, I mean that that's that's how that's how you know real they are.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're very, very um uh easy to constitute, reconstitute.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, what we didn't realize was the market for these things for hikers and backpackers.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that it's so light, you know.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: You you you can put half a dozen eggs and it weighs um you know two ounces you know in a little baggie.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so you've got really good food, good high protein.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: You just get to your campsite, you add water, you have your fry pan, and boom, you've got great, you know, great uh high protein scrambled eggs for breakfast that didn't you know that didn't take much room and didn't take um anything to come in.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um we were so amazed by the outpouring of uh by the market for this, but we just I mean it was the biggest surprise we've ever had.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, because I mean I'm not a backpacker, I'm not a hiker.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: I hike all the time every day.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: We live out here in the sticks and the toads and the rocks and the spiders, so I don't need to go camping.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh, you know, that's not our world, but it is for a lot of our our patrons.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so but the thing is cracking those eggs, you know, by hand, you know, one at a time, to do, you know, 5,000 eggs, that's a lot of it's a lot of cracking.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, in the industry, in the industry, they just soak them in, you know, chlorine and and and and dump the eggs in a great big uh vat with a plunger in it and just squeeze all the uh the the whites and the yolks, you know, through a through a screen and and and the shells are on one side, spits out the shells one side, spit and and the liquid eggs come out the other end.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you know that's how they get them separated, so they can put them in, they can pasteurize them into you know liquid eggs or or whatever.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so uh so we found a um a small commercial um machine that does this, and but then we thought, well, no way, we don't use chlorine, you know, what are we gonna?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're today, as we speak, Sina, um, we have we have our first batch of liquid eggs um that got sprayed with hypochloris on the shell before going into the machine to make sure that we don't have any bacteria or any you know any problem in those liquid eggs because we're not going to pasteurize them.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to pasteurize them.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the question is can we get them clean enough on the shell with an antimicrobial hypochloris to be able to be satisfied that we can liquefy them in order to freeze-dry them to do our powder?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I hope everybody followed that, but but this, you know, um the this hypochloris is a is a is a great thing.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so you know, it it it the key here is is transparency and information and and and giving people options so that they can make their choice to buy from someone and and patronize an outfit that that that that isn't just depending on the government to tell them that what they can use is okay or not.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think I think we have established certainly in this podcast that if you're trusting the government to uh verify the safety of your food, forget the nutritional quality, just just the the the safety of your food, um you know, you're living with your head in the sand.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that's obviously that's a theme that we've done over and over again, but today's um I think today's specifics really uh really fortified that position.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: That should be our tagline.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: We'll help you take your head out of the sand.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: Take your head out of the sand.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I are we out of time?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know you had a couple updates, but are we?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: I I can do I can do this real fast so that we can squeeze it in here.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there is an effort going on right now.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is I don't want to I don't want to belabor this into um uh unnecessarily uh arduous, but public law 90-492, that's PL 90-492, is a producer-grower exemption that was put in in about 1968 uh to allow 20, it's a federal exemption from inspection to allow a producer-grower to process up to 20,000 chickens a year on their farm, on their site, and sell them to end users.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that'd be consumers, hotels, restaurants, institutions, any end user.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it is absolutely the exception, the the exemption that has allowed us and our farm to be successful with the pastured broiler, because it allows you to get in without a whole bunch of uh paperwork and different things.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but did you say did you say it allows 20,000 chickens?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: 20,000.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: So so it's a per year?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Per year.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a numerical, it's a numerical limit.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: It says you know if you if you keep down to 20,000 birds per year, you can do this without inspection.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a numerical exemption.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you're able, you're allowed, like I've seen videos of you doing open-air um.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: That absolutely is why we're in business.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: It enabled us to be in business, and I that's how powerful it is.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because 20,000 chickens is it's just a lot of chickens.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not, you know, it's not a hundred, it's it's it's enough you can actually make a living at it, which is what we've done.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, Kentucky has just put in a rule to require HACCP plans and other things.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Kentucky actually has a mobile processing unit uh that they paid for with a big government grant, but nobody uses it because the stipulations are so uh um onerous that nobody can use it, especially the wastewater issue.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have a health department approved health water system in order to park the truck at your the mobile processing unit at your place.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the the the approved water system is a you know is a is a$200,000 thing.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so here you're trying to do a thousand chickens, it it the economics just don't work.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: So so it becomes, Cena, it becomes a de facto uh prohibit workaround uh of the of the federal uh of the federal exemption.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um it becomes a workaround at the state level to actually thumb their nose at the state, at the federal exemption and say, we're gonna be way more restrictive and essentially shut this down.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: Shut down the option and the freedom of the PL 9492 exemption.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna shut it down in our state.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing's happening in Florida, of all places.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: Florida has just put in that in order to sell a chicken under PL 9492, you have to sell it with the head on, the feet on, and the guts in it.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can only pluck it.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can only take the feathers off, you can't do anything else.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why would they do that?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: To in to eliminate contamination liability on the farmer and put all that onus on the consumer.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, if you want this chicken, that's fine, but you're gonna have to gut it yourself and take all that responsibility.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now they left the guts in there, so doesn't that make it yeah?
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I plucked your chicken, come and get it before the guts get hot, you know, or or or you know, turn to turn to E.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: coli.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it's it's absurd.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolutely absurd.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a very interesting kind of in the last month, a kind of interesting thing that's developed here.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh and and I I I don't know what's going on with it, but you know, if there is a here's the thing, you and I know.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: These things don't happen in a vacuum.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's nobody sitting in a room by by himself or herself tapping their head.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: How can I cause a problem with PL 9492?
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, these guys go to their conferences, they get together, and they they talk about these things before this kind of stuff gets implemented.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know what it's a reaction to.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what, I don't know if it's a if it's actually a an agenda to try to circumvent the federal, the the freedom that the federal law offers.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we have two states now that are clearly attacking, going after the PL 9492 exemption.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's actually quite you know quite disheartening.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so that that's that's one thing that's happening uh at at the state level.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is that legal?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, is this one of those things where where federal trumps the state?
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a situation where the federal law, PL 9492, allows states to be more restrictive, but but the law seems to be very clear, and again, I'm not an attorney, but it does seem to be very clear that a state cannot reduce the freedom to do a thousand birds per year.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: So between between 1,001 and 20,000, a state can be more restrictive, but between zero and a thousand, a state cannot be more restrictive.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what the state seemed to be penetrating into that zero to one thousand level uh that has always been.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, here's the thing.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can do a thousand, your wife can do a thousand, your kid can do a thousand, a friend can do a thousand, okay?
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so there there, again, there have been workarounds in the extremely in the extremely restrictive states, there have been workarounds uh uh to it.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, interestingly, in Florida, Florida has probably the best pet food, pet food loophole in the country.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm encouraging the folks there in Florida.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: To just go under the pet food exemption and sell and sell your chicken as pet food.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: They have one of the friendliest pet food options available.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we just the other side never gets done trying to figure out how to shut down alternatives.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we just have to smile and be be persistent.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when they put up a gate over here, we go over, we open and give us an open gate, we we go to the open gate.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't, if they try to close us in, we we push the gate down.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that's um that's uh uh happened, um, got an email from a lady in um Kansas that's had a custom slaughterhouse for a long time.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: A custom would be where you do uh beef and pork and lamb and goat and things for individuals, you know, and the packages are stamped not for sale.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she decided eight months ago to go uh federal inspection, and um so she did.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: And for for apparently some time, she's had cameras in her slaughterhouse to so that so that people so that customers can see how she's cutting their meat.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she's been a custom slaughterhouse.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, hey, you want to see you know your um your beef that you brought in Thursday, we're gonna cut it up tomorrow.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you you can live stream it.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: So she's she's she has been so transparent in her plant, and she owns this plant.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a a woman-owned you know slaughterhouse, which is very, very unusual.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: And she has she has put in live streaming transparency in her plant so everybody can see what's going on.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very cool.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very cool.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she went on a federal inspection, and now she's losing her inspection because they won't allow a camera to be used.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because under federal inspector, they they don't want they don't want anybody to be able to see an inspector on site or see what an inspector does or see the face of an inspector.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so so now there's this this battle.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's losing if she she either has to her whole brand has been transparency, you know, so you build up this business over we are the most transparent you know abattoir in the nation, maybe.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now suddenly the government is telling her we're gonna close you down if you continue with your cameras.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so she's in a real world quandary.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, her whole point is, well, what do they have to hide?
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: What what's what's wrong about showing inspectors going about their business and looking at stuff?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what could possibly be wrong with that?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh what is she gonna do?
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: She reached out to me and I'm trying to put some publicity on it.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I blogged about it today, and um, and and we'll see, we'll see where it goes.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a this is a real battle, and it and it really shows, I think it it really shows deep down the the secrecy and the opaqueness of the of the whole inspection program.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: These guys, uh, these guys don't want the light of truth being shown on on what they're doing.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so yeah, we'll see where it goes.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: Those those those are my two things.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: Those are my two things.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and I guess I guess uh we could we could close with a with our our question could be um uh do you have an RBGH free source of milk?
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and if you do, how did you find it?
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: What what was the what was the procedure you went through to to get your RBGH free?
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because we have a lot of listeners, I'm sure, that don't or aren't sure how to find it or get it.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you do have it, uh tell us tell us how you found an RBGH free source that that you can trust, and it'll be helpful for all the folks that feel feel whatever uh you know confined to um to an RBGH dairy product.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're looking for a quick way to find something that doesn't have RBGH um from those cows treated with that genetically engineered hormone, it is not supposed to be allowed in organics.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct, that's correct.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: So so if it has, you know, 100% organic label on it, then if you trust the label Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: But that then that would be a good an easy way to find that.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, everybody, thank you for joining us on another episode of Beyond Labels, and we just appreciate your continued patronage and look forward to visiting with you next week.