Latest / Bro-ing Pains / I Thought I Had More Time | Mortality, Aging, and Grief

Transcript

I Thought I Had More Time | Mortality, Aging, and Grief · Bro-ing Pains

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of your life, what kind of life do you want to have had?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of life do you want it to have lived?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: What's up, world?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Browing Pains, where we have the conversations that live somewhere between your therapist's office and the group chat.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Chad, a licensed marriage and family therapist, but my friends like to call me Papa Chad.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Carlos, theater kid turned self-proclaimed corporate puppy.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: And quick reminder: this podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health care.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you're struggling or know someone who is, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional in your area.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back, everybody.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is season three, episode five.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Last episode, we talked about friendship and identity, the versions of ourselves that come out around different people, why vulnerability can sometimes feel easier with strangers than it does with friends, and what it takes to build friendships where we feel seen and heard.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're zooming out a little bit and we're getting existential.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we are.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: So get ready.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about accepting our own mortality and the limitations that come with being human.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because so much of identity is built around possibility.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who could I become?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: What I should accomplish, how much time I think I have left to figure everything out.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: But eventually, we have to confront the fact that we can't control everything that happens to us.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Our bodies change, people leave, opportunities pass, and eventually our time runs out.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Which sounds depressing as fuck, but I've actually found it weirdly motivating.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: A few months ago, I was talking to one of my besties, Camilla.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out to you, I know you're listening, and she said something that's been stuck in my head ever since.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what happens at the end of this?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: We die.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, what happens to our identity when we stop fighting that reality?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: More importantly, if we truly accepted that our time here is finite, what would we do differently with the time we have?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: And with that, we present to you vignette number twelve.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I had more time.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: David had always assumed he had plenty of time.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: He was 48, he had a wife, two kids, nice house, a job he's been doing for almost 20 years.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't unhappy.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: He just always seemed to be waiting for the next thing.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: He'd worked a little longer now so he could take more time off later.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: He'd put off the trip until the kids were older.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: He'd tell his wife they'd have more time together once things settled down a bit.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then, during a routine doctor's appointment, his doctor noticed something that needed to be checked.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: A few tests later, David heard the words prostate cancer.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: The doctors caught it early.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: It hadn't spread significantly, and they were confident they could treat it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone around him was relieved.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: David was too, but something had changed.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: For the first time, he couldn't convince himself that death was something that happened to other people or down the road.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: He started noticing things he'd spent years ignoring, how often he checked his phone instead of listening when his daughter talked to him, how many dinners he'd missed because of work, how long it had been since he'd done something just because he enjoyed it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: He started taking his wife out more, calling his kids during the day, taking weekends off without feeling guilty.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the strange thing was, even as he became more intentional about living, the thought of dying wouldn't leave him alone.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes he'd lie awake at night thinking about it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not just what if the cancer comes back, but what happens when there isn't a next year?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: He knew he had been given a second chance.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: What he couldn't figure out was what to do with the knowledge that eventually there wouldn't be another one.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And for the first time in his life, David realized that becoming an adult wasn't just about building a life.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was also about eventually having to accept that the life he'd built would end.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is an important conversation because we hear about people getting diagnosed with cancer at a younger age and on a more frequent basis.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's scary.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's scary.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's also the the realization that like as you and I get older, we're not all gonna make it.
• 4:41
  unknown: Nope.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say every day is a blessing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus called, he wants his Bible back.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's true.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like we like tomorrow is not guaranteed, right?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: So like it's both um like scary and terrifying, but also just like very YOLO of me.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, we're all gonna fucking die.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: So like why not make the most of it?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Or at least try to, you know?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like life is too short to not enjoy your life, you know, and and to and to share it with the people that matter most to you.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have people that matter to you, then you should get some.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do something about that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: At least try.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is a yeah, this is a really tough topic.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people having to realize that they're gonna die one day, and it's not something that people want to think about.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the vignette talked about like being more intentional, you know, like taking your your wife on dates and calling more and putting your phone down.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And these are all the things that like as a therapist, and just like as a person, like I try to tell people, even myself, to like do.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: But it's hard to remember.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you remember for a little bit, but then you just quickly get sucked back in.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And next thing you know, you're not you're not remembering to be intentional and slowing things down, and that's that's the brewing pain.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make sure that that is top of mind?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because it feels like when it is, you do become happier.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, how do you how do you maintain that?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, it's all part of the human condition, right?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't I don't think it's I feel like it's impossible to be happy all of the time.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's impossible to it's impossible to well, uh maybe not impossible to be sad all the time, but you're like, um, trust me, I I'll give it a run for its money.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, otherwise you would not be in business.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Putting this into perspective, right, and and like using that to be really intentional.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't think you can be.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think you can be every single day of your life because that's it's it's unrealistic.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that it goes, it comes back to balance, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: To figure out like what are the things, what are your values and like what are what are the things that are necessary to to you to continue living a well-balanced life?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it's true, like being balanced.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay that sometimes you forget that, you know, the intentionality piece, but it's like, you know, how do you get back on the horse?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do you and you keep it forefront of mind?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask, do you remember when you were a kid, like when you found out what death was?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: The first time that it like really had an impact on me was watching my mom grieve her father who passed away when I was 10, maybe.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: And man, it was really hard.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember I remember waking up to my mom's sobs in the other room, and like I had no idea what was happening, but like just um just even like hearing her pain through the other room, I started crying, you know what I mean?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like just um I it was just like really confusing.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean Yeah, I don't know, it's just it's it's hard.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I like I don't know how you how you're supposed to explain to a child about death, you know what I mean?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and like Yeah, how do you go through that?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: The first time that I like understood what death was, I I flipped out.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was inconsolable.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was at nighttime, and I just kind of like figured it out.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, wait, what like no one knows?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like no one knows what happens and what like where do you go and you can't remember anything and you can't speak to anyone, and I was just inconsolable.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember both my parents woke up and they were out in the living room with me, and to both of their credit, I mean they did the best they could.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: They were trying to console me as much as they could.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: They were both really patient with me.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: They I think they did the best they could, but yeah, basically I ended up crying myself to sleep, and I never have gotten over that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I'm still so like I get so worked up when I think about the idea of what's gonna happen.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a part of my work that I definitely have not worked through, for sure.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think was a a part of you figuring that out?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because I it it it feels like a kind of a jump for a five, six-year-old to for their mind to go to that place.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: I like I don't know.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing I can think of is my parents would always say I was an extremely qu inquisitive kid.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they would call me Curious George, and I just was asking a lot of questions, and I kind of just I don't know, I probably like watching like a movie or something, and someone died or something, and just you know, it just kind of comes up.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I just was like, well, what happens?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think my parents were like, I mean, we we don't know.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just went crazy.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the fear of the unknown, the the lack of ability to find like comfort in that, you know, and being already, already so like anxiously attached and wanting like that like security all the time and that like reassurance, and basically them being like, I mean, there's no reassurance here.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that that resonates with me too.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Our being just ceases to exist and and like it's as it's as if we're we were never here type of thing, you know what I mean?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it's just there there's so many like unanswered questions and what was your first like real experience with with death?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the first time I experienced grief, and it was also the first time that I'd seen my dad cry was when my dog died.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was my dog um Buck, and he was this huge husky malleute part wolf thing, and it was he was just so big.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: He was the coolest dog.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: He was a really good dog, but um, it was the Tracy summer heat, and my dad went out to barbecue around the side of the house, and he came back in the house and the dog, you know, he started he was crying and the dog was laying there dead.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was like uh 11.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and then he was also like, you know, he was too big, he was overweight, you know, not exercising enough.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was a multiple, multiple factors, but I think the heat definitely didn't help, you know what I mean?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um uh Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was wild.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Another topic that I want to bring up, having like near-death experiences of your own and how that can how all that plays into how you experience or how you uh understand death and mortality and all these things, because the topic of near-death experiences is not new, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Have I I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast that I had a I had a near-death experience of my own.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I said it excitingly, like, no, like tell me more.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just saying, like, no.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me more.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was a freshman in college.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was driving my friends and I to the gay club in San Francisco because that's what you do at 19.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, basically, like I lost control of the car, and we were on a freeway ramp in San Francisco, and the car flipped over several times.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And because we were on a freeway, freeway ramp, we almost flipped over the ramp and like very easily could have fucking died.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And wow.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was very traumatizing.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Jeez.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: But but luckily, luckily I was the only one that was damaged.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had two friends in the car with me.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was the only one that was um hurt.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: That probably explains all the fucking back pain that I have.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but yeah, no, I I was uh shooketh to say the least.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I think that like both like my cousin passing and and that experience has informed the way that I live my life moving forward and and just like um yeah, I I mean I think it's just definitely like put that into perspective of like every day is a fucking blessing.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I genuinely it feels very corny to say, but I think it's true.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're not you could very easily not wake up tomorrow.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like there for for a variety of different reasons, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, very easily.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: I try to keep that type of mind, but like you said, you know, it's it's not always it's not always gonna happen.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I try to give myself grace around that too, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Of like, it's all part of the human condition.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're all dealing with our own shit.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: I equate my approach to death and dying similarly to how I approach confidence.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like a roller coaster, like it'll be up one day and down the next.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think like I could be there, I think there are times where I'm much more accepting of it or or or just like maybe tolerate is is the right word.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like more comfortable with just like the fact that we are, you know, mortal beings.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then there are other times when I'm on an eddy and I'm just like, bitch, we're gonna die.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: This shit fucking ends.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's made me ask a lot of different questions about like my faith, you know what I mean, or and and like what what I believe what happens after.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and like I I don't know if we want to go into all of that, but I think like I want to like have some peace for myself and helping be more comfortable with all of that because it's well, spoiler it, it our next episode is about spiritual slash religious identity.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So well, stay tuned for that one.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious about how you make sense of all of that as a therapist, because you know, as you've said, from a young age, you've been very sort of anxious about death and dying.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, as as a therapist, like you're you're the professional in the room.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're that you have to um that's a topic that's gonna come up.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, never.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I tell people, please don't bring it up.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Please leave that at the door.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Leave that at the door.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or just leave.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or just yeah, don't even come, actually.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, it definitely does.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I remember in my early training, I had an elderly gentleman that had a lot of health problems.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was in his like late 70s.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I've had like, you know, several different, you know, ages or things that have happened to clients and things like that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I mean, one thing I always say is you can't not bring yourself into the room.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, just like knowing that that's a part of me and uh that I I have a hard time, you know, with that.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just uh I feel the anxiousness and the worry and the fear with them.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm able to like reflect that back.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people think that they're coming to therapy, like you said, like you're the professional in the room, you know, because like they're looking for answers.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, like I just don't see that as my job.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my job's not to give answers.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: My job is to reflect back to you, and then I'm of the belief that you're the expert of your life and you get to decide what you want to do with it.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's very postmodern of me.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I try to like, you know, remove myself from this idea that, you know, I'm the expert and I'm gonna tell you what to do.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it's I can feel the uncomfortableness and I can feel the lack of acceptance in the room, and um, you know, having to work through acceptance is kind of what I try to work on.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and acceptance doesn't have to be like um a constant state where like, okay, I've accepted now and now it's over.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of talk about how acceptance is like this thing that you do over time, you know, and um sometimes like you said, like sometimes you're really good on the acceptance and sometimes you are freaking out.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's different milestones, right?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like when life hits you in the face or when death hits you in the face, like obviously it's gonna come up again, just like any other emotion, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this is another thing, this this fear of death, this fear of what's gonna happen here.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm curious, what is uh what is a near-death experience?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's like a definition of a near-death experience.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever you think is is near death, but yeah, I would say the only one that I've had was when I had pneumonia when I was seven.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I told you I had that big fear, like scared when I was like five or six, about the concept of death.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Then when I was seven, you know, I remember going to the doctor basically because I couldn't keep anything down.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was like throwing up water, like it was it was crazy.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I remember my mom crying, being like, What's wrong with you?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, very worried.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: It took me to the doctor, and my pediatrician was like, We just did a scan and half of his lung is filled with fluid, and we need to get to the hospital like now.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I remember my dad actually um sitting me down and just being like calmly just telling me, like, hey, this is what's gonna happen.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna go into an ambulance, you know, we're gonna be with you every step of the way.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, either your mother or I will be by your side the entire time.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I was in the hospital for seven days.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was scary to the point where I didn't really feel like the near-death part because I was so young.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really understand what was happening.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of going with the flow.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the ambulance ride and thinking it was fun.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um I I know the one thing that I remembered was at the first hospital that I went to, there were no doctors that were willing to operate on me because of my size.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I was, you know, so obese that they were very concerned and they had never worked on a kid, you know, with this kind of surgery at that, you know, BMI or whatever.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to go we then we had to get into another ambulance and go to another hospital um for a doctor that would be willing to do it.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember that vividly because I remember like it felt I felt shame about that and that I was a problem or definitely an inconvenience.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: They'd um put me under and put a tube in, and then I still have a scar like right here on the side, and just I remember coming home and there was a sign on my garage door from my neighbors says, Welcome home, welcome back.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was from our neighbors and our really good childhood friends.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I got like a bunch of get well soon letters from my class.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, my teacher like did that and stuff because I was out of school for a while.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um But yeah, I remember just like reading those and being like, oh shit, I guess I guess I something was really wrong with it, you know.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think I felt like the near-death experience that like you did, because it wasn't as real.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, but as you get older, like you you start to put together perspective and things start really hitting.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then for me, I would say this whole death thing really starts is coming to the forefront with especially with having a son.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just can't stop thinking about that quote with John Q with uh the movie John, I think it's John Q.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: His son needs like a transplant or something, and they were on a donor list and they weren't gonna make it.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Denzel Washington says, I am not going to bury my son.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: My son is going to bury me.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like that's a pretty good Denzel.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it was that good, but um but yeah, I just I I that right now right now is on repeat in my head.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I just I you know it's true.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to make sure that that happens, you know, and um the sad part is there's nothing I could do to guarantee that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just there's nothing I can do to you know, guarantee.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think becoming a parent, you you know, never let that go.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh it's something that you have the face head off you know, my wife talks about how it's like a it feels like a piece of her heart that's just walking around in the world You know, like I take the night shift and you know, I'm like I'm hoping I don't mess up that like I don't, you know, hear like a cough or a drowning or you know, be coughing on his own throw up or something and um or just or walk in and he's cold.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh there's nothing you can do to you know you just do the best you can and um you know you live your life and that's why you know I tell people it is so important to um you know slow down and enjoy um these experiences because nothing's guaranteed.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And as a therapist, you know it just feels like I'm obviously uniquely positioned to hear you know tragic stories on a potentially weekly daily basis.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I have heard um that many.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so maybe that's why I'm also more sensitive to it.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it feels more real or just Yeah you know you you keep thinking like oh like you know you hear about stories but they're very distant, you know and but when when you're a therapist like it's hap like you're hearing about the pain right in front of your face.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know it comes in many different forms.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it makes you it makes you appreciate life a little bit more.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's probably the main reason why I like my job so much is because it feels like it makes me a better human.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's selfish basically the idea of of a a parent bearing their child is probably the most tragic thing that I can think of.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is a memory that I will never forget.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: When my cousin died we were all at my my cousin's house and I will never forget watching that little red minivan pull up to the house.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Her parents it felt like a straight up scene out of a movie and she like she gets out of the car and just drops to her knees and just like starts sobbing, crying and it's just like the the most fucking like painful thing that I had ever experienced.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you even begin to like make sense of all of that?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I've I've I unfortunately I've had to see parents bury their children several times throughout my life and it just feels so unnatural.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah ideally it works out, you know, but uh like we talked about it that that's what it's like to become a human is is to understand that we are mortal beings and we're nothing but a blimp on this earth.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: On a a bit of a a lighter note moving to to the physical limitations as as we you know age and and get older I mean you know we we joke about that all the time to start getting all these random aches and pains uh as soon as you turn 30.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it's very real like you're we're we're dying every day.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the Lewis C.K.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: joke and I I know I'm canceled even for bringing up his name but um uh he has this joke where he's like going to the doctor and he has this like ache or pain and you know the doctor's just like well you could stretch and he was like oh okay great like you know how long should I do that for and the doctor was like no you just like you just do that now like that's just that's just what you do.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like what do you mean?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's like athletes you know they could like reconstruct your shoulder and like do all these things and the doctor looks at him is like you're not an athlete me and my wife say that a lot and she's like yeah you just do that now that's just you just take supplements and you you take glucosamine or whatever it is because of joint pain or it's just you know I think it's really interesting because it feels very it feels separate right or I I mean I guess it is like being able to open up about how you're feeling mentally versus how you're how you're feeling health wise.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like those are two separate issues.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that for whatever reason it's not always easy to to open up about both right like somebody can be can fully be in therapy and share all about their feelings and things like that.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Then when it comes to oh I have have this like random pain that is not going away and I'm too scared to go to the doctor and too scared to talk to anybody about it.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I do have people that have come to me with those fears though.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know like some people are it's just a lot more difficult to manage the anxiety of health potential or actual health concerns.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean that I would say that's fairly common.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah it's a good point that you're noticing that like maybe people think about the emotional side of what's you know wrong with me or how am I dealing with the emotional part of my identity and they're not necessarily thinking about the emotional part of their physical selves and their aging limitations and things like that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it in in a in a perfect world we we should feel free to talk about all of it, right?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we kind of just we kind of just laugh it off like oh that's aging now you know where um I remember my father-in-law Charles you know he has this like weekly coffee clutch he calls it or something and they all meet up it's a bunch of old guys that just meet up for coffee once a week basically and it the he jokes that it's basically just every week just giving updates about their most recent health issues.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know it's funny you know I mean it's funny to talk about but I'm wondering how much they're talking about you know the emotion behind having to feel like the only thing that we talk about is our next problem with our health, you know, and like that becomes such a part of your identity is managing your ailments.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know the grief in that that like oh now my my physical being is not something is is getting in the way of my ability to experience things that are outside of that is interesting.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of beautiful I think it's like an aging support group.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah kind of yeah but I'm just wondering how much there I'm sure there's you know obviously some emotional sharing and stuff too but hopefully there is I think I talked about like having to keep this feeling and this like level of appreciation of life at the forefront of mind at the forefront of your mind on a daily basis and that's why I like I like to do a lot of appreciation work with people um you know just like slowing down and appreciating what you have and it kind of gets you in that mode of like appreciating what your life is like right now because you don't know when it's going to be gone.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's really really hard I think especially for you know men when they're thinking about wanting to like leave a legacy or you know focusing on other things about financial security or providing for their families and you know they don't want to sit and think about the present moment and the appreciation of what they have that's tough.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: My brewing pain would be I mean I I I keep thinking about if you're fortunate enough to to reach old age like the way that you see it in movies, right?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're on your deathbed and you have your family around you and all these things at the end of of your life, what kind of life do you want to have had?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of life do you want to have lived?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that I approach that is very much the way that I approach my life now.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I know that I at the end of my life I don't want to live with any regrets.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: I know that I want to love unapologetically and and to to live unapologetically and and to go for the things that make me happy today.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because as we've discussed on this episode, tomorrow isn't always guaranteed.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so like going back to the vignette oh I'll do that tomorrow or when this happens I'll finally do this.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like no we you that's not guaranteed.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: So why not?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I be I think a big one is that I think about too is like saving up for retirement, right?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like yes that is incredibly important, especially in this economy but also enjoy your life now when you still can.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah find that find that balance.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a tricky balance but I think that I think that we are all better for it if we try to find that at least so with that we leave you with this closing question.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is a version of yourself that you need to grieve thank you again for joining us on another episode we'll be continuing the identity development kind of segueing from here and talking about spiritual slash religious development and identity and how that impacts our identity and how we see ourselves in the world thanks for hanging with us for another episode of Growing Pains.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: If this episode shifted your perspective at all don't just keep it to yourself pass it on follow us on TikTok and Instagram at growing pains to stay tapped in with the community and if you've got a story question or a hot take you want us to unpack, slide into our inbox at growing paintspod at gmail.com.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear from you.