Latest / Graymalkin Lane the podcast / The Trials of Rampage and Stilt-Man! With Shawn Porett, Derek Nichols, Justin Kosmic, Steve Duda, and Theodate Chase!

Transcript

The Trials of Rampage and Stilt-Man! With Shawn Porett, Derek Nichols, Justin Kosmic, Steve Duda, and Theodate Chase! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grey Morgan Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order, but today we get to record by a very favorite episode of the month, which is the monthly trial.
• 0:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now the theme in March on the show, we are doing gimmicks.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: On the main show we're talking about some of the weirdest and worst X-Men parodies throughout the month, and over on the Patreon, we're talking about some of Marvel's most nonsensical and weird and crazy villains.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: In some really heartfelt conversations, I was expecting mostly laughs, which there are plenty, but there's also a lot of like heart and seriousness.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anytime you have a give it character as well.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now we open the month this month with our newest champion script read which features the ongoing villainy of rampage the recession era villain.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to open our trial today with rampage and then we're going to delve into one of my all-time favorite Marvel super villains.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love 1960's Daredevil.
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to be jumping into the world of a stilt man in the latter half.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So please stay tuned.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I promise you're going to have a great time today.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am thrilled to be joined by a queer and diverse and wonderful jury of some of my all-time favorite people we were just catching up before the call I love all of you very much.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: In 1954, when the comics code was established, there were strict rules that had to be followed in an era of high censorship and McCarthyism you can look it up.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Among the rules that were existed, crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals, criminals shall not be presented so as to be rendered glamorous.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: or to occupy a position, which creates a desire for emulation.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, try telling that to Princess Python in the enchantress, as I'll obviously.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Police men, judges, government officials, and respected institutions shall never be presented in such a way as to create disrespect for established authority, inclusion of stories dealing with evil, shall be used, or shall be published,
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: only where the intent is to illustrate a moral issue and in no case shall evil be presented alluringly, nor so as to injure the sensibilities of the reader.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: In every instance, good shall triumph over evil if crime is depicted, it shall be as a sorted and unpleasant activity.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, we've been doing the silver age on my show since the beginning, and all of the early X-Men comics fall into this era of censorship.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Claremont comes on board, things change.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So now we're in the early 1970s and the rules are different.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Villains can suddenly be portrayed in a much more sympathetic light.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: they can be sexy, the costumes are getting skimpy or the racial diversity is expanding.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Before the code change, we meet Stilt Man and one of the earliest issues of Daredevil.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And after the code change, we meet rampage.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both men and the things they have in common, although I don't know that we've ever really seen them interact, are inventors who are willing to turn to crime for personal profit.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both men are obsessed with their own technology.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both men can get real evil real quickly, which you get outside of the gimmick, and both men have a little bit of a god complex right under the surface.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: It goes from fun villainy with tech to like, I will rule the world very quickly.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So ladies and gentlemen, let me welcome you to the trials of Stuart Clark, rampage, and Wilbur Day, the Stiltman, two tech-based inventors who are just a ton of fucking fun at the end of the day.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me welcome my wonderful and esteemed jury and my initial question for you if you have any thoughts on the comics code authority.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd love to hear it But what are your early thoughts on stiltman and or rampage?
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me welcome Justin Cosmic back to the show first.
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi Jay.
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's great to see you.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: you as well.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for having me again.
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: So my initial thoughts on Stiltman, he's just a silly little guy honestly, anytime he pops up, it's like, what is he getting into now?
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: I will admit, Rampage, I wasn't too familiar with, but his costume is definitely a choice.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, let me also welcome the day chase back to the show, hello the day, how lovely to see you.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was previously.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: the familiar both these characters.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm pretty fond of both of them.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Dilman in particular, I've always loved.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think I think the key with a still good still man story is that the story can never really treat him as a joke.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like as silly as he is, characters can like make fun of him and treat him like a joke.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: But he's actually really confident and really dangerous.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's I think the like recipe that makes of the most interesting.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: He, when you read it from a serious lens because he takes himself very serious lately.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: When I told you about the still man, you and Steve who I'll introduce next were both like, Yes, I love this guy.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: You seem very affectionate for this particular character.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I just, I love, there's no rhyme or reason to the like minor de-list characters.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I tend to get attached to and still man is just one because I just,
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I like Daredevil stories as well and that that issue with Wallywood art is like I think like the first really great Daredevil issue and so I've always had affection for him there he's just such I love the contrast of him being having such a silly gimmick but such a but actually still gives all these heroes he fights such a run for their money.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a number of early near-level villains that I'm very in love with gladiator is one of my all-time favorites.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love Mr.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Fear.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's some really fun ones.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me also welcome Steve due to the fact of the show.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Steve, I know you love Stiltman too.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, yeah, it's me, Steve.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love Stiltman and I knew for a fact because I've known see a date for quite some time on the internet that they were going to be really excited to talk about Stiltman here today.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I've been I've been actually pumped for this meeting of the mines on one of our favorite early
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also love early Daredevil.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the first times Chad and I talked.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we were discussing like my deep dive read through of like the first 200 issues of Daredevil.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love gladiator.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love all those.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of really good stuff in the Wallywood.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Wallywood run as short as it is.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stephen, we love all of the same comics.
• 5:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's so funny because you brought me back on here to talk so many times about the same specific issues like when I was reading through my homework for today, and I got to that Champions issue, I was like, oh no, we did this in the stranger trial.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, again, very, very happy to approach these comics from the different perspectives of the different villains who intersect in them.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really interesting way to read through the 60s and 70s.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I also want to, I want to second what Theodate said as well.
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite thing ever is that the comics usually treats still man as if he's like a really big deal.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: When he shows up, Daredevil's always like, look Natasha, you don't understand.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: This guy is really deadly.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: The legs are, you don't even understand.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, they're so hard.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can see us already going in this direction.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're like, still been in there.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, rampage.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I do, I want to put out there like rampage is great too.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: He just doesn't have the like, he doesn't have the like, present, stilt man does.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you didn't Steve are both stilt man super fans.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: My other three guests just in Derek and Sean are people I love to just take on journeys with weird super villains.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm really excited to have all of us here.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is going to be a fun panel today.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me welcome Derek Nichols back to the shell.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey guys, I disagree, I am so rampage.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm super excited about and then you'll get when we get to that part of the trial.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: I will I'm a big rampage advocate.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, reading over your notes going back to like the comics code.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: I had no idea that was a thing like that.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: Those were the rules and they're super interesting and when I read that the first thing I went to is like modern day like there's this.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: sector of our culture that, like, um, idolizes the Punisher, and like there's pushback against that, like the Punisher's supposed to be like this hero, but like the way that it's all taken into context with one group of our, of our, of our country is interesting.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, like just kind of check those dots as kind of spanking through my head right now.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: Still man, no.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Up, again, I will
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: weird choice of words, but I will gush over around page a little later, but still man, it's me is like an iconic Marvel villain or character in general, like I think that in a way that he's present in a lot of like background imagery and always around like I remember growing up with like a certain finds like where's wall though Spider-Man book I think it was and like still man was on every page and I know Kuhu that was but he's such a he looks so distinct like you remember who gets his characters.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: So
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's like my vibe on Stiltman.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's he's like up there with I don't know like famous like Magneto level like in for me, but like not just imagery wise.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, There's always a giraffe at the background.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, so happy you're here.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then let me also welcome Sean for that.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the show.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Sean.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Delightful is always.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I presume the light flows always.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I always love coming on your show, Mr Chad.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know this about the comics code.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's interesting to know that like rampage is basically.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: a product of the code being lessened because he's very sympathetic.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's very fighting for money just like we all are.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm convinced Chad that you hate me because you gave me like the darkest time.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know that these character lives that I get to cover today.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for that.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I made you read a, I made you read Punisher Comics for Baron Zemo too.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you did.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: RAM pages cost you I know we'll talk a lot about it, but it always gives me there's this episode of the Batman anime series where the sky is like the catch-up and mustard man.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right, it reminds me Yeah, the condiment guy or whatever.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the condiment man.
• 9:22
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, a condiment king.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, there we go.
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we're going to begin with rampage.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stay tuned for still, man, though.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both are going to be a wildly good time today.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the early 1970s, among the many changes happening in the world, the economy started to crash.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sound familiar, everybody.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, we've been talking all about on my show, like second wave feminism and black exploitation, and all these themes happening in the early 70s.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Today, we're focused on economic recession.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: A housing costs went up as wages stayed the same, this is the post Vietnam era, Nixon made some key decisions that reduced the value of the American dollar internationally and then watergate happened.
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then the tech industry began massively declining with manufacturing and particularly blue-collar jobs losing their value.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is also right after we landed on the moon, of course.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Vietnam was ending, which meant that all the military contractor jobs that had existed were now going away.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Weapons adventures were entering the game too late.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Most of the small and medium companies disappeared, and kind of a weird allegory for this.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: There was like a patch of time where you could get very successful on YouTube very quickly, and then everyone wanted to be on YouTube, and then it became very hard.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of a weird allegory here, when something new shows up and then it's oversaturated and people are struggling.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: The big companies only survived at the time by consolidating and laying off a bunch of people.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And those companies are still around today, largely, companies like Lockheed and Northrup and General Dynamics.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Their names have changed because they have consolidated.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Patents were stolen from inventors, corporate espionage was committed, inventors, inventions produced for a company which then owned their property, right?
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the purpose and who put it together was like, sorry, you worked for us, so it's ours.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: so they lost all rights to the things that they had designed.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the lawyers are profiting off of everything while the Pentagon papers and Watergate are exploding in the news.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then Jenny is a Bella as Tony at the time.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I have talked to Jenny about this.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: They are fine being called Tony when referring to their old writing, but we'll air toward Jenny mostly.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: A Jenny is a Bella gives us a new story arc in the champions.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: A story titled, The Economy is so bad that, or these days, the only way to get a dollar to go far is to toss it out of an airplane.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: We meet the every man of supervillains.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: The first men is born of the recession, ran page, and we see a man in red and yellow just tearing through a wall of machinery.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: The story opens on angel learning that he has just inherited billions of dollars from his dead parents, and then we immediately cut to Stuart Clark, who's throwing all of his bills in the air, hoping they'll just go away.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: His company's going under, he took some risks and it didn't pay off.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: and his lawyer wants Stewart to declare bankruptcy.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Declare bankruptcy, you spindless worm!
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what clock futuristic means to me?
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I put my soul into that company.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: How could I sell my soul to some corporation?
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was tough enough competing with all the big outfits before those idiots in Washington started running the economy in the ground.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: and he's decided to lash out at the world.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: They stacked the deck against me from the very beginning, even when I was first with a product, I could never supply it as economically or as rapidly as the big outfits like Stark or Rockson.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stark meaning Iron Man.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember that, because this guy fucking hates Tony Stark.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll get there later, but it turns out Clark has designed a very impressive exoskeleton.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: It couldn't have revolutionized modern police work, but when Stark's LA operation started working on a similar project, it got the fat government contracts, not me.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: He snaps the uniform on in a series of interconnecting wires that deliver the power source over his red and yellow costume.
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: lightweight and flexible alloys, magnetic sources, mechanical components.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: The narrator tells us, Stuart Clark is not an inherently evil man.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has been bent, twisted, and finally crushed by the times in which he lives.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: They are very opinionated narrator in this era.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now it's 1976, and Stuart Clark is ready to take action.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he runs right into a bank and rips the vault off the door.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a big bow with the champions, inspiring Hercules to quit.
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: All the mysteries this earth holds.
• 13:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I shall never understand how a mortal can gain such power and then do so little with it.
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Chuggie.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Clark is ends up hurt and then hospitalized.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: His lawyer finds a way to profit off of Clark's investments instead as the company is devolving.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now years later, we're going to see rampage take a job at Bane Tronix, working for Sunset Bane, the corporate Iron Man of Villainus, who we don't get enough of.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's delicious.
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then he helps form a new warm machine armor alongside Parnell Jacobs to use.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the end, Jacobs turns on Clark, Iron Man wins the fight.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark is out of a job once again.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Tinkerer once posited about Clark, being poorer than Stark made him smarter than Stark.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: He would be angry, weak and desperate.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I use that voice because the Tinkerers, like 100 years old, always.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's such an alarming, it's so alarming to a reader to see the introduction of Stuart Clark with the narrator showing such sympathy for this man who's like robbing banks and endangering civilians and maybe killing cops.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's so desperate to succeed and not have the bad consequences.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you still kind of have to feel some feelings
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: this guy so that you can get into the Clark's head too because he there's the hot bubbles and he's the first issue he is second guessing everything he's doing like he doesn't really want to harm anybody he doesn't want to cause this direction he also he's trying to steal a money from a federal bank because he knows the government will just pay the money back to the bank so he's trying to like cause the least harm in the situation so there is some sympathy
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: there.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: I also feel like even if he was fighting, if his company versus like Stark's company for creating like this armor, rampage just seems a little less clunky than Iron Man's, like I feel like it's a little more functional in a way, even though it looks terrible, like visually with the collars, but like I just think that could have been like a leg up there to be more accessible for people.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting, and I didn't spend a lot of time on this, but when we compare, Iron Man is coming out of a weapons designing era where he gets locked in a cave in an Asian country and has to build his armor out of scraps.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he's also the billionaire playboy, right?
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: The military contract idea and like rampages ideas of like what he can do with his suit but he never quite gets big, and instead kind of loses everything as talent goes to waste.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a certain amount of sympathy I have for him, but this post-meat-norm era is very different.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, Rampage, from the beginning, it's interesting, like, Derek kind of pointed out is he doesn't go out there to be a villain.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: He goes out there just to put food on his table, which makes him very sympathetic, and especially, like, I'll tell you a little bit about my hardships.
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I went to college for 2D animation, right, went 2D crashed, and then I went to college for cybersecurity, right, when that crashed.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I get this guy.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I get how tough left to be trying to make a dollar out there.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I really think he's an interesting character.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's not robbing like 20 bucks though.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: This man is like, I deserve millions.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a certain amount of white privilege with this guy where I'm like fuck you, but also I do get it.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would have so much sympathy for this character because I have sympathy for a lot of characters who are really similar, you know, guys who didn't get what they worked hard for, or were passed over by somebody richer and more connected.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: This kind of like I couldn't get in on a burgeoning industry because corporate forces clamp down and squash me out and I'm just a little guy I would have also moving the world for that, but it's really tempered by the fact that he's like I could have made an impressive exoskeleton armor for police work that would revolutionize it.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, man, you're evil.
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the stuff you you're complaining about your lucky bomb not getting sold.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's what you're telling the world doesn't mean weapons anymore.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, really hard to be able to have the right kind of sympathy for him in much the same way that it's hard for me to have some busy for early Iron Man, although obviously he becomes a character who is way more compelling over time.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then stops for a bit.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So things never get much better for Stuart Clark after that.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's kind of a flop villain in a lot of ways.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're doing the script read this month if you heard it.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're he teams up with all the Russians and Dark Stars shows up and he gets blown up in the end.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: He ends up hospitalized and then homeless.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a wild story with Ice Man that we'll talk about in a little while.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's really crazy.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: He tries to make a big comeback with a company called PackTech and they try to franchise his rampage suit into armed response Which is like the police wearing this is a very robo cop like we're gonna like weaponize and have a private militarized police Source, but they all get their asses kicked as well.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a wonderman story
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a stint where he's in the raft before escaping and then he obsesses over Ironman and he's trying to build new suits and then he becomes the tech guy for the Punisher.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember Punisher's little friend microchip?
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like Stuart Clark becomes that guy for a while.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's the guy behind the scenes but then the Punisher murders his girlfriend, Tatiana Arojka, while under the influence of the hate manga, but Ram Page doesn't necessarily know that.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: So then Clark once revenge, he becomes a cop killer.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: He gets some fingers shot off.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: He fights some scrolls as a rampage, but then he gets nearly killed and thrown through a window by the Punisher before coming back as the new Jigsaw.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jigsaw is that guy that the plate glass like carved his face all up, and now he's a crazy Batman villain with a gun.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's some really wild stories.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna get into it in the trial more specifically, but Clark does some really dark things in the Jigsaw era, particularly.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: this is not the life that this man was planning.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I like the idea of rampage kind of going anti-establishment with Punisher.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: It kind of seems like a step in the right direction for at least this particular character just because he's somebody who wanted so badly to be a part of the system that kind of screwed him over.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: So kind of moving in that direction seemed like the most logical step at least from what I've seen.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: As for everything after that, it's just kind of downhill and chaos
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: he's made.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like I said, there's a part of me that wants to sympathize with him just because he's somebody who I see as a victim of capitalism, but at the same time it's like, I could have been this.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: I could have been that.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: I could have worked with the police when it's the result of a man who fell victim to the system and I do stress some early on in history.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: It is interesting how timely the story is in modern times.
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: It is something I do find myself saying whenever we do cover these older issues here like looking at the 70s and all that It's like, wow, the more things changed or more things really do stay the same Steve's sound bite in my brain of like this man's goal was to make millions by making cops more deadly It's just gonna play over I had me quite thought of it in that light
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, when you put it that way, I agree very much with Steve's you on this it was he's he's somebody who was so it's him he's sympathetic because he's somebody who was so screwed over by capitalism by that But he's so very much that like temporarily embarrassed billionaire like personality he he wants to arm cop You want to be part of the system and he's mad that he missed his opportunity, but rather than
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: see why he, the problems that led him to that position.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: He just wants, he's just mad that he didn't get his slice of the pie.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I just, it's always hard to sympathize with somebody who sides with the Punisher.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I, um, I've read this, I've read Punisher Ward Journal so many times for various characters, including our episode on the given and this episode on stealth man.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've read it previously for Clark and other characters.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I just, that, that run is, is the bait of my existence, so that I've read it so many times.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Clark is just being part of it.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just like Clark Clark.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I just can't stand you sometimes.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's worth it just to see Princess Python and her short green dress show up at the funeral was still met and say the widow days here and I'm all wet like I let.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Run of the Punisher is so funny because it comes up in like 40% of the trials I'm on here.
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, let's talk about his costume for a minute.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean there's one age I think the end of the first issue he's in with the champions where he's holding like angels hair And they're both wearing red and yellow and I just so much red and yellow on one page But it's actually it looks super cool like the two of them together
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you've cosplays that angel red and yellow, but it doesn't have real with Clark.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it the head covering?
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Is it the goggles?
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, it's that.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then like just the middle are all around it too.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: It just looks just not cohesive.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now that's crazy.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's crazy.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So let's talk about Stuart Clark's powers and abilities.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's pretty talented as an inventor.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a very narrowly focused mind and a very strong connection to his inventions.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's that guy that like invented that thing that one time and then that's like he peaked in high school.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like really stuck on that one thing.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: He comes back to it over and over again.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has a lot of narcissism about his own importance and about like who he should have been.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's also very bad with money.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: He fucking hates lawyers and you don't blame it away.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: His suit is built out of lightweight polymers and the rampage armor connects together over the body extending through fibers to his fists so we're going to go a little handbook powers you know entry here for a moment.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: He uses a jet pack to fly up to 200 miles per hour later bottles can go even faster.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: and he's strong enough to throw a bulldozer or punch a demigod, like Hercules.
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: The armor is resistant to gunfire, electricity and concussive attacks.
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: He later designed a bunch of mini Iron Man robots and a suit of frog armor in his Punisher era.
• 22:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: He also builds a gun that fires knives just for fun, which is a great invention, I think.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he helped put together a new suit of war machine armor once he
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: But most crazy of all, he helped build a massive suit of Captain America battle armor for the Punisher.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is Punisher in his, I'm an American era, it's crazy.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stuart Clark definitely is narcissistic.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't have the usual.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to rule the world, delusions of grandeur most of the time, but he is obsessed with being rich and famous, kind of at all costs.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Despite his burns and injuries and imprisonments,
• 23:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: He seems to really find stride during his time when he's working with the Punisher.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's got a girl friend and he's building things and he's needed.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's also the only time we've ever seen him featured consistently.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like a little...
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: He'd draw him as like this little skinny kind of nerdy guy with like a blonde crew cut and glasses.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a... it's a... a little error for him.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then his soul focus goes into hating the Punisher and wanting to kill the man at all costs.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's some truly wild moments with Jigsaw that we'll get to.
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: It descends up in all of the facial scarring.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's always had a very single, you'll at singular hatred of anyone who succeeds when he doesn't.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's Angel, there's Iron Man, there's Wonder Man, but in my opinion at least he's a pretty wildly fun supervillain.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: The thing I find I like about his costume is how it is.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: He compares his Iron Man costume all the time, but whenever he takes it off, it's like fabric.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like you see, I'm pulling off his helmet, which can deflect like her Achilles' punches and it just like fold, it just becomes like a cloth mask.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I always,
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: I always think that's a neat like detail about like the color coordination is not exactly there, but the nature of his the nature of what he made is still pretty neat.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, with that, let us commence with the trial of Stuart Clark rampage.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has two trial points as all and some of our characters get five, but he gets two still man gets three.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Each jury member's been signed a assigned a specific section of history to read.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll provide a summary and then we will hear that person.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give us a prosecution and a defense in that era before we all vote.
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: completely innocent five meaning completely evil and you're allowed to apply that scale however you see fit.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Trial point one we are calling blame the economy are a sign jury member here as Derek Nichols.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: The key issues here are champions five through eight.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man number 17 and 18 which again is a really wildly crazy expensory that you've probably never read.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then we're going to go to Wonderman five and six 17 and 18 and 20 and 21.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: When his company clerked futuristic, plummeted toward bankruptcy, Stuart Clark used the exoskeleton he'd once designed for the police and launched a new career as the villain rampage.
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: While threatening lives, he tried robbing a bank but ended up fighting with the champions and holding his own while calling Black Widow a mere woman.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: During the fight, he'd threatened to kill the angel, harmed civilian Ivan Petrovich, and set fire to the building to cover his escape, but Clark's fired attorney, Emerson Bale, who Clark had grown violent with previously.
• 25:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Recognized Clark's picture on the news, and then called the police.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: The news program, by the way, is the one that gave him the name, Rampage.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: So rampage is suddenly fighting the police, and then while shaking off gunfire and wondering why the world won't just leave him alone to rob banks and live his life, then all the superheroes come, and this time rampage is soundly defeated.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Incarcerated, he refuses legal aid from Emerson Bale, because he's already allied himself with some new villains who reached out.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Griffin, who I adore, and who is adoreably voiced by my husband in the episode earlier this month,
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dark Star, Titanium Man, and the former Crimson Dynamo.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Black Widow was kidnapped and back in uniform, rampage attacks the champions, taunting them with Black Widow's whereabouts.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when rampage pushes a button to activate a communication device, he realizes that the Russians have betrayed him.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: A bomb goes off and he is badly burned and wounded.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the American economy of failed economy of failed him, he tried to ally with the Russians and didn't go well.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: The champions of Mao disbanded, and Stuart Clark is in a wheelchair, wrapped in bandages, and he refers to himself, quote, as a helpless cripple.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: While in the hospital, Iceman visits Stuart Clark, kind of
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: feeling bad and checking up on him.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Clark ends up hitting iceman with a hypnotic gas, and then makes him dress up like him in like all the bandages in the chair, and then forces him to fight Spider-Man in the angel before he gets defeated.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a really wildly fun story of sure Derek will tell us more about it.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark ends up getting taken back to the hospital.
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: We then learn early on.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you remember Simon Williams also was like a Neppo baby who owned a company with his brother who turns out to be the grim reaper anyway.
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Simon Williams company went over because Simon Williams in bezel the bunch of money, Clark Futuristics was set to be the next big thing in government tech, high tech contracts.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Williams has always seen Clark as a victim.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: In time, Clark's company was bought out and became pack tech.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So Clark, who has now ended up homeless, here's that they are copying his rampage armor since they now own the tech and the patent.
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he's found a way to control a rampage suit from far away.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he ends up stealing a bunch of the suits and then giving them to six of his homeless friends.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: No joke, ready for revenge.
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: He calls the group who are all dressed the same rampage and his recession raiders,
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: While tearing down Pactec, they end up fighting Wonder Man and the Beast, so again, another X-Men story.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Beast gets hurt, Wonder Man makes some threats.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you do, Wonder Man, what can you do to me and the others like me that the world hasn't done already?
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: The world destroyed my business, drove me to crime, threw me in jail and then to the streets.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've got nothing left to fear, and his tactic to hurt Wonder Man who can't really be hurt because of all the ionic energy that Nazi transformed him with that one time wound.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hit him where he's weakest, right in his friendship, he says.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he starts tossing the beast's body around them.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're like playing keep away with the beast.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Until a Wonder Man can catch him and then Wonder Man gets beast to the hospital and Clark Gathers all the recession raiders together.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And ever the entrepreneur, Clark sees the opportunity to franchise.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know countries that will give us refuge if I promise to develop American technology for them.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: then we'll make millions on the international black market off the high tech we're liberating from packed tech here.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: The same countries who have given America its lousy balance of trade and its recession will pay me for American inventions inventions they gobble up through corporate piracy.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Beautiful and he wants to turn his men into a super army.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll make us national heroes.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: It'll open the door to the dream I've nursed all these years.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: The dream of technocracy, power to the fittest, wealth, to the natural rulers of the modern world.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: The great inventors, but the recession Raiders are no match for the military helicopters, not certainly not for an enraged Wonder Man, who is like just kicking their asses.
• 29:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they either have to get beat or run.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark fights with Wonder Man with an American flag.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: and then the flag takes out his jets and boy is the poetry there.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark collapses on the grounds of city hall while screaming for sympathy and in turn wonderman just rips his suit apart and dumps it in a fountain.
• 29:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well we're back in the wonderman series a little later.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark has been hired by local crime boss Lotus.
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's a problematic character we can talk about another time.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: To redesign his rampage armor in new colors, and she equips security agents to wear the armor, calling them armed response, and then sends them out on various missions.
• 30:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we don't have a corporate tech force.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: They cross paths with wonderman a few times.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark continues operating his rampage and is working alongside the mercenary splice to fight wonderman.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Even as the city of Los Angeles has considering hired hiring our response as their own public agents of private security force for us American city, what could go wrong upgrading his suit to include anti ionic abilities rampage continues working for Lotus and fights alongside splice as they fat that all the team crazy eight who are a group of wonderman side cast who all get a little bit of ion
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: gradiation and a little bit of superpowers.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a crazy group.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Their names are off tour, attractive lad, buff, dreamer, glamour girl, hand, snap, stat, and visionary.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Go look them up.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're trying to use least lethal force against the group.
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rampage gets frustrated realizing he could study the kids and build weapons from their ionic powers, but he turns to fight Wonderman yelling, no one in Hollywood respects technical people.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sure, you'll use us as hired hands, but you're afraid to give us power because
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: my dampers of beaten your ions.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now watch my electronics cream your muscles.
• 31:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that is a phrase.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wonderman hits rampage with a truck and then gives into his ionic powers and just knocks him out with one punch.
• 31:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, armed response is also defeated.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me turn it over to Derek Nichols for a wildly fun series of comics.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you had a blast reading these.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I sure did, and before I get into it, um, when you first assigned me a rampage, I thought I did not know who this character was, but I actually, so I started cosplaying as Wonderman, so I started buying a bunch of back issues, and I got the what the last issue that you assigned me to read with no context of who this character was, and it was seen that he seemed like such a throwaway character, because I had no context, because it just seemed like it's just a normal 90s villain, which is the soup duck deer situation, but that's why I appreciated getting his whole backstory.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, with that, and the crazy eight, that's a patron patron, you should dive into that, and I want no part of that, because it seems super problematic with all those characters.
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, I'm gonna start with the defense, actually.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: Stuart Clark is not an inherently evil man.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: He has been bent, twisted, and finally crushed by the times in which he lives.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Stuart Clark is just another countless example of the failure of many American institutions.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: The belief in capitalism and the free market are lack of mental health care and a false optimism in the American ideal.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: He is a brilliant inventor and was a patriotic American.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: He had great ideas on keeping his country safe, but it turned its back on him.
• 32:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: The recession caused him to lose everything.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Could you imagine your life's work gone, do the forces outside of your control?
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: Could you imagine the mental strain caused by the weight of a failed government that results in economic, political, and social chaos all around you?
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: How would any of us react?
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Even the champions themselves felt pity for Stewart.
• 32:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Stewart always had good intentions.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: He stole from banks knowing that the fellow government would pay them back.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: There was an opportunity to rehabilitate him and no one stepped up to provide that care he needed.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: If he got the help he needed, who knows, he could have moved away from weapons and work on inventions that to save the world, just like Tony Stark.
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Burned by his country had no choice but to turn to the Soviets for help.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: Help, and sadly he was used by the communists that almost led to death.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was alone, scared, and angry.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: He needed somebody.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Brainwashing Bobby Drake so that warm Warthington would hang out with him was a result of this.
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: He needed a friend.
• 33:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: The male willingness epidemic is real and Stuart was just a victim.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then, after all of this, this intelligent, thoughtful man becomes unhoused.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: As we look at his tragic life, my dear jury, we have to hold the scales and justice in mind.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Stewart provided jobs for his unhoused friends.
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: He made when he hit Rothbottom.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: He had toned for his sins, abandonals, and property destruction by utilizing his intellect by providing armed response to equipment they needed to keep LA safe during a time of intense gang violence.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Think about all the lives lost in property damage he prevented.
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: I also ask of you, Dijuri, as you look at Stuart's life, under these same circumstances, could this be you?
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: Prosecution.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: This case is open in a shot.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: We have seen this story so many times.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: And he could physical man doesn't get his way, then goes on a little rampage, and doesn't care who gets hurt along the way.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: The defense has told you that his actions were not his fault, but we all know he is the one who is accountable, he is dangerous, he's severely injured and almost killed armed officers and civilians.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it sad that he was unhoused?
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: But the fact that he created his own gang out of unhoused people for Retribution is not the way our country works.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: They all could have pulled themselves up from their boots straps and worked in many great jobs this country has to offer.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: Ultimately, we see what happens when Stewart is allowed to lean into his billions.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: He attacks old ladies and teenagers and brainwashes super powerful mutants and just a sheer amount of property damage he caused in his temper tantrums alone warrants punishment to the fullest extent.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: The defense is set up the story and asks, you can't thighs if it's a villain, but you would never break the law on so many levels like Stewart did because your law abiding citizens.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: And because you are, you know it's just civic duty to hold him accountable for his action.
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are some of your thoughts on the fun moments of these stories versus where it goes a little too far for this guy?
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, that's the good point because I said that I would like gush over this character and I gushed over like his beginnings.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like he does go a little too far or creating that like the
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: armed response in an American city that whole scenario, like that's super connected today's world.
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I thought the stories of being the iceman story was super fun because he creates this have not a gas out of like just gas that's in the hospital to like while iceman just coming to check on him as like a good person and he puts
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's the mind control I'm putting them up and dressing them up like himself like that was just a whole like can't be like fun story, but otherwise like yeah, the armed armed like police forces get send it very depressing territory.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I I have so many thoughts first of all, Derek for you personally, this is your third trial.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: You've done a whirlwind barren's emo and now this guy and out of those three, this guy is great.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's maybe so excited.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I promise it's not intentional.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not inviting you on to defend horrible men repeatedly.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not my goal.
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is interesting to me for rampage to watch.
• 36:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's fallen pretty far.
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Tony Stark, who's made all kinds of mistakes, always gets a second chance.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wonder man imbezzled and went to prison.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now he's a movie star and a superhero.
• 36:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I kind of sympathize with him to a certain degree.
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm impressed when writers take a character and then give him more to his story, right?
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: Looking at the character, I do want to note something I was going to mention earlier.
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: This guy is very driven by almost vengeance and his anger gets the best of him.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: I do think as a jury member, a little therapy would have done him good and maybe not sent him down this path granted, you know, the affordability of that with his financial situation.
• 36:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a whole other story.
• 36:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just know what's your vote.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: So my vote.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm leaning somewhere between two and a three.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whenever I hear leaning, I always go hide the high one.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're three.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: I am.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's go three three.
• 37:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know in the later punishers, she's they mentioned he mentions that he's on a lot of steroids at this point.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do we think that effect?
• 37:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do we think that's affecting his decision making here in this area?
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's pretty horny for lotus.
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, three definite three on the one hand on the homeless do it recession Raiders great idea that that that that rips that rips so good that gets me so hard But on the other hand using them to declare a technology look around you We can see what that's done for America.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can see that's what that's still gonna do you know look up the network state What we're worried about this kind of stuff.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's got nothing but ill intentions And I think he's using the most exploited members decided to do it even if he finds himself among them He's like he's like a reverse Eugene dab.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: He finds himself among the criminal element.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: He finds himself among the underclass and he says
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: How can I make this about me getting rich and powerful?
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: How can I use this to exploit other under-privileged people, other members of the under-class, marginalized people?
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: How can I like ruin their day and get a buck off it?
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm giving them a four.
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I wrestled with this little two, because I think like we've all said, he's got the right intentions, but he does it the wrong way.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: But the thing that finally swayed my hand is the fact that he's so easily like to go over and to make a level meeting, nice man.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I gave him a three also.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a two for me for hijinks.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he's a lot of fun and we're like, what harm did he cause at the end of the day?
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: At least so far.
• 38:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna get into the worst section next.
• 38:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: By the way, everybody in the chat.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've all like claimed an identity from the crazy eight for ourselves.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm glamour girl, of course, but each of us have claimed, you know, attractive lad and off tour.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, we'll take a nap.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll give him a two like he's again, you will for maybe because you may be talk about baron's email last time, but he's definitely a two.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think I didn't seem as exploiting anybody in this part of the run.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he not yet at least.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think I don't think those motives were unveiled, but you didn't get to see that in this.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So besides ice man just being hypnotized, like, that's just for fun.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's so fun.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: 17 out of 30 in that first section, I'm going to double check my map here.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I believe he am.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, 17 out of 30, and we will go to trial point two, which we're calling jigsawd.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: The key issues here punish her war journal by Rickremendor issues 1, 10, 17, 22, 24, and 25.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then the follow-up series punish her in the blood 1 through 4.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then weirdly moonlight volume 9, number 4.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: The assigned jury member here is Sean Perret.
• 39:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: After escaping from the raft in a mass breakout, Clark dies his hair and changes his appearance to avoid recapture, and then he takes a job altering technology for supervillains.
• 39:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's doing the tinker or thing.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: When an amped up stilt man hits the streets, it puts Punisher on Clark's
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: and he finds Clark wearing a super-powered battle suit with tea-tiny Iron Man out androids to serve him.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, there's our one meeting by the way between rampage and still bad.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark, however, sees an opportunity to convince the Punisher to go after supervillains that might have stark technology.
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So double way, me, in an unstable era related to the superhuman civil war.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he gives Punisher technology to track down supervillain tech and
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the first thing Punisher does is slaughter one of the Jaco lanterns and one of the gestures.
• 40:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: For a time, Clark begins working for the Punisher, providing tech for Frank to use in combat, liquid armor, and guns that shoot knives, and Clark joins the Punisher on a trip to the border, where Clark's girlfriend, reporter Tatiana Arrocha, is investigating a hate group at the border.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Tatiana ends up kidnapped by the National Thief.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Force, who are anti-immigrant white supremacists being led by a new version of the hate manga, and Clark soon finds his girlfriend dead.
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's a Hispanic woman.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: It turns out she was killed by the Punisher who was under the influence of these like hate rays at the tide.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he doesn't know it.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Vowling revenge on the person who may have killed him.
• 40:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark then goes on a killing spree, planning to kill anyone who was involved in her death.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: He kills his first victim with a single gunshot to the head.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: We get one issue where Clark is the narrator of the story, and he thinks about the past and how things failed, and he recalls loving the jet-setting life but not the failures.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: On a bashed hedonism cannot go unchecked by greater cosmic forces, and unbridled genius cannot go unchecked by the mediocre status quo.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was an American success story, I'll have you know, shattered spine, Tony Stark's enemies list, and economic recession be damned.
• 41:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: A real, up by the bootstraps case, me, Clark's old boss, Sunset Main, seduces him, and fucks him, and while sending him after her old friend, Parnell Jacobs, who by the way, is a black man, while trying to get the stolen war machine armor that Clark helped design with Jacobs.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark murders Jacobs in cold blood with the gun, fucks sunset one more time, and then gets betrayed by her once again.
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Extremely loyal to the Punisher, who he also believes at the time is loyal to him.
• 41:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark makes weapons to free castle from prison, while also shacking up with a woman named Dima Nell, but it turns out she's really Lynn Michaels, who's also sometimes a Punisher.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry about it, look into Punisher a little or if you would like.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: As Clark is preparing to leave Diamond L, she reveals that the Punisher is the one who killed Tatiana, and then she shoots Clark in the back multiple times, knowing that he is a cop killer, so she's doing the Punisher routine, except she fucks the guy first.
• 42:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's just crazy, crazy journey.
• 42:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Most of the damage blocked by his bulletproof vest, Clark ends up losing two fingers in the attack, as well, and soon builds himself across that account.
• 42:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: He then gets video evidence that Frank did kill Tatiana.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he puts his rampage suit back on, kills some scrolls because the secret invasion is here, and then goes after the Punisher.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: But again, the secret invasion is here.
• 42:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the battle gets chaotic.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rampage ends up turns on a sniper as Punisher turns on rampage, learning that he had once killed a cop.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: This scrolls attack again.
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Rampage gets knocked through a window, and this is where his face gets cut into shreds.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now his face is all cut up and all scarred and stitched together, so he begins teeming up with the original jigsaw, Billy Russo, so now we have double jigsaws, their faces look the same, and jigsaw's son Henry Russo is now the new tech guy for the Punisher, so it's a new era and where we have Clark as a double super villain with jigsaw.
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: They become drug-dealing crime lords, they capture microchip, punishers original tech guy, and Henry and use them in their revenge plot on the Punisher who's going through all his crazy shit because the hood used Dormamu to resurrect all the villains who were killed in the bar by the scourge and that one Captain America issue.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: But they've also maybe revived Punisher's Dead Wife, who has turned into a leatherclad supervillainous.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It turns out it's not really her anyway.
• 43:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: They monitor Frank for a time, leaving him clues that Maria F. Passel is fucking Billy Russo.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the Punisher's Dead Wife is fucking his archnemesis is what he thinks.
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Frank investigates, they capture him, and then they make him watch on a camera while they both fuck his wife, again, not his wife.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then they played the video on a loop for him while he's locked up in their room.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: truly barrenzymo level craziness at this point.
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Punisher gets locked up with the microchip and then he kills his former aide and then he learns that Maria's actually one of his old foes, Tanya Adrian and then Punisher kills her too and then Clark turns on Henry cutting him up and planning to kill him but then Billy Russo jerksaw turns on Stuart Clark Jigsaw and stabs him in the back.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's where it all kind of wraps up.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Clark's face is badly scarred still, but he ends up opening his own criminal empire, tasked by the evil Zodiac.
• 44:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: He focuses his sights on Moon Knight for a bit.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Seizing control of the millionaire Stephen Grant's funds and threatening to delete them all, unless Moon Knight takes Jigsaw and his men out.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is a more modern, modern, jedmic case story.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love Jed.
• 44:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Moon Knight does so, he goes after Clark anyway, not caring about the loss of all of his money,
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that brings us up to date.
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's basically all of rampage appearances.
• 44:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me turn it over to Sean Perett.
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So first off, I feel like Punisher Warger and all this section should have been called rampage Warger and all because Punisher was like a guest star and rampage story right here.
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was amazing.
• 44:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't a big fan of Punisher in the blood.
• 44:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't like seeing rampage turn until jigsaw was kind of weird for me.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Moon Knight was fun.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I like the way the whole thing ended up with Moon Knight being, I don't care about money.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to save people so that like the warded rampage just all planned, which is great.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that was funny.
• 45:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: But let's talk about why this man is innocent.
• 45:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this man is a victim of the economy.
• 45:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: All he wants to do is make a buck.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's selling tech to villains, but you know, are we going to go after KitchenAid for Jason Voor?
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's going on another killing spree.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Also, he doesn't really ever hurt anyone.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: He works with the Punisher who's hurting people.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: He works with Jigsaw who's hurting people.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, he kills a few people here and there, but they're evil.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So is he evil?
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's actually doing us a favor kind of like the Punisher.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But we can also say he's guilty because he is working with Jigsaw.
• 45:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: He does kill people.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: He does give weapons to evil people.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Basically everything that was just said by the other guy for the innocence, but in reverse, let's blame him for his evil doings here.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have a strong guilty one.
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a, this is a really, this is a real tough one.
• 46:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think working with the Punisher is already like a real bad moral sign, working with Jake saw somehow even worse.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of this guy, I give him a stick.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's a five for you, clearly.
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting because you can kind of see him trying to reinvent himself.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like if I've got to be a villain, sure, I'll get a girlfriend and all design tech.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's great.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then he gets to kind of become the aide to somebody and like belong to something.
• 46:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the punishers also kind of represents what the threat of his rampage armor might have always been anyway, if it falls into the wrong hands, suddenly it's used for assassinations and killings, and then he goes full drug lord super villain murder or crazy, you're like, he literally is rampaging now.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a it's a four for me.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a five.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a bad dude in the section.
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: I got to give him a five as well.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of this can't really excuse all that much versus the last trial point.
• 46:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: There was at least some justification there not to excuse crime or anything, but
• 46:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a fight for me.
• 46:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna give him a four.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's worse out there.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think he's kind of anept.
• 47:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like he never quite hits his plan to go through all the way.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's not, I don't know, he's killing people, but he's not killing innocence.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just put it that way.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was originally planning on giving him a five just for like working with the Punisher, but I'm gonna bring it down to a four after hearing Sean's defense and your rundown of his history because like he does some evil shit, but it's really just to like white supremacists and then the Punisher.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: Mind all that much.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with a four with him.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: First of all, I just want to say like this the back half of his comic career is so much more adult than this front.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: So that was just really jarring and I think you're all insane like I'm I'm not a three like I don't think I'm going to be careful what I'm saying because this is a public this would be up public but like give me one reason to snap in this world like into like take justice like you know what I mean like won't.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: But that can see where it's coming from and maybe no.
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sounding like those people that I was talking about that, idolize the Punisher.
• 48:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I don't.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't walk this back.
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I'm still getting me in my three.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't see him in this.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to leave from my social media directly.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, maybe you should.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that gives us a 26 in that second section out of 30, which gives us a final score, a 72% on the evil scale for this guy.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's hijing his fun.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: It would be almost fascinating for someone to take this character and try to do something redemptive with them, really interesting journey with all of you on this.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for joining me as always.
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now we're going to delve into the trial of Wilbur Day, Stiltman, a guarantee you've read a Wilbur Day comic somewhere.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: This guy's all over the place.
• 48:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I had to be a little selective with our appearances, but God was at fun to read him front to back from his perspective.
• 48:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Daredevil number eight, we're back in the early 60s at this point.
• 48:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: The cover, Daredevil, Daredevil has attached his Billy Club to the high stilt of the Stilt Man who towers over the tallest buildings of New York.
• 48:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: The caption tells us, soaring to still greater heights of glory, a still man stands in sleet-colored armor, looking almost like a periscope of a submarine, there's bulletproof metal covering his entire body, there's a huge hat shield that's kind of up around his head.
• 49:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And a high neck collar over his face and the stilts are kind of like doctor octopuses arms or I had a hemantoy called mechinect growing up if you remember you like twisted his waist and his neck would go on and it's like the little metal legs they're extending up and down via hydraulics, but they're not twisty like doctor octopuses arms, at least until later, but we got to talk about the still ban action figure, of course, I see a few of you brought
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: character here, inside we learn about the origins of Wilder Day, after robbing a helicopter and yelling things like, no ordinary human can cope with the power of stilt man, and so long as I'm the master of my stilt, I'm unbeatable and completely invincible.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wilder Day puts on a front piece suit in a pair of glasses and he's giving his best suddenly see more impression while going to Matt Murdoch for legal help.
• 49:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a mild man, sir, and I don't like to cause trouble, but my boss at Caxton Laboratory stole my patent on a new type of hydraulic lift.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I invented it at home on my own time.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: My boss had no right to it.
• 50:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to sue him, and Carl Caxton refuses to settle out of court and calls Wilbur Day a sniveling worm, and a spineless milk-sop, and a second-raised stew, and claims he invented the hydraulics not Wilbur Day.
• 50:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: that's actually kind of true, but Dave really takes this invention on as his own.
• 50:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk more about the specifics of this story as we go, but let's talk about the visual and the initial appearance of Stilt Man.
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love that issue of Daredevil.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's drawn by Wallywood.
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was like one of the all-time grades.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: They they give Wilbur and still man like so much personality and he's just like he's got such a fun look right off the bat with they they do all of these fun thoughts of perspective where you like have like a down look and you see is like stretching way over like buildings.
• 50:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's great the action figure they've got the Marvel Legends action still man figure which.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: came in pieces with other figures.
• 51:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: I had to track them all down.
• 51:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: But the hand figure came with extensions to legs.
• 51:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: You could keep like, click it as many.
• 51:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you bought a bunch of like the hand ninjas, you could just make stilt man as tall as you wanted.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: You could just keep building dead to it.
• 51:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's it's what is the most fun action figures I've ever owned in my entire life.
• 51:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's something very fun about the visuals of this and I sent you guys daily images of this character for a while like the way artists gets to play with perspective as they draw him from different angles and like, are we looking from underneath or over the side as he's taller than the buildings, there's really fun visuals with him very consistently.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Before we get to the visual, the action figure.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: It is one of the few that stand taller than everybody else.
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: The only one that maybe stands taller than it.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: By the way, me getting to talk about a figurine, like yay.
• 51:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: But the only two that stand above my stilt man is the Haslab Sentinel and Galactus.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is one I could stack as high as I want to, but I do have them fitted on my Daredevil shell.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Perfectly, it's a 12 inch shelf, but, you know,
• 52:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Can't complain about that.
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Looking at not just talking about 12 inches.
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a good start.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, the figurine, like, it's a lot of fun.
• 52:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: This was kind of one of my introduction to the character outside of his appearance in Spider-Man, just because I did do a redo of Spider-Man from the beginning.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: I did kind of stop in the 90s when we got to maximum carnage.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's when it was kind of like,
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: kind of over this, getting back to Stiltman more.
• 52:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: So the theme of company is stealing kind of continues here, which is where I see the parallels on why he and Rampage are on the same trail together.
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Outside of their brief interaction, Stiltman is someone I've come across more frequently than Rampage and he like Derek head mentioned, he somebody I always saw on the background and he just really stands out and has a really distinct
• 52:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: appearance and seeing the different images of him have me scratch my head at how he in a suit function like the real life applications of a suit example stepping over a bridge accounting for the depth of the river he walked in the stability the fact that like the still turn like the same thickness of his legs but he's still like stretching to lengths of tall buildings it's like how you know and this is interesting because it's
• 53:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: play this game for yourself.
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you've ever been to New York City, imagine there's a guy that's like 14 stories up in the air, and every time he takes a step, the still has to like retract like a hydraulic, then he moves his leg forward and puts the still down somewhere else.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: When it's a character like giant man, it's just big old massive legs and feet, right?
• 53:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like this guy, how does he position the feet, how does he keep the ballads, taking a step must take a while.
• 53:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the higher you are, the more the leg has to retract, and then move over, like his mobility is
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: insane, but the visual of him like you're unlike the 40th floor and there's a man with a gun in your window because he's still to himself all the way up.
• 53:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, there's something wildly fun, but you know, most superheroes just figure out how to knock him over pretty quickly.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, the thing is with giant man, at least he has proportions like his whole body is growing where still man is just his legs.
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well Chad, he can retract his still faster than the I can move.
• 54:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So check me.
• 54:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he has a specific system of gyromotors, gyromotors that keep him in balance.
• 54:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a problem.
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, no.
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: All I have to say about him is it's an excellent design.
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: While he would really popped off with this one, it's incredible.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's incredible and I all I will say is that it is not down to the pencils, but under Jean Collins era, I think he achieves his perfect look because he's colored blue and when he starts being colored in entirely monochrome blue, there's something that's really ominous and terrifying about him.
• 54:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not joking.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Despite his silliness as a character, there's something about the like Mr.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Freeze Mars attacks sort of at-cup thing.
• 54:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got around him.
• 54:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: The completely impassive, faceless metallic mask with the bright white eyes and the Mr. Sinister-style flat-top slash widows-be combination that he has in the metal mask.
• 54:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of it being like one exact color of like midnight blue is like it is somehow kind of scary.
• 55:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's strange.
• 55:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's absurd.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's uncanny.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sean doesn't like it though because it's not painted red and yellow.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Accurate if it doesn't freak of like squirting mustard and ketchup.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in, there's a surprising number of panels where artists make still man look genuinely like intimidating and like like make him really have like terrifying presence in a way that you just don't expect.
• 55:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, an amazing Spider-Man number 237, Wilbur Day is ranting.
• 55:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not the man I intended to be.
• 55:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a failure, a fraud.
• 55:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: No one takes the still man seriously anymore.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't the way things were supposed to be.
• 55:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't how I planned them.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was going to be rich and famous.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wilbur Day was going to be the mouse that roared.
• 55:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: My life became a succeeding series of defeats.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: The cash from my last heist is running out.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Not that I care about the money.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just want the name of Stilt Man to be respected and feared.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And don't believe him because this man absolutely cares about the money.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's been a member of the emissaries of evil more than once.
• 56:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: The gang of four, which is a bunch of his buddies that he met in prison and they decided to keep hanging out.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And once I'm enjoying the fist under the leadership of Daredevil.
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: It a really crazy modern Stilt Man story.
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: He also married Princess Python once, completely off panel.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they had a kid, which we only learned about recently, created by Anthony Olivera in Avengers Academy.
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: His name is Lexington Dubois, so he took his mother's last name, and his name is Kid Stiltman.
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's also other Stiltman characters, Turk Barrett is a Stiltman for a while.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's Lady Stiltman, who gets an episode on my Patreon this month, and believe it or not, there's even a Stiltman gang.
• 56:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: But none of them have been really affiliated with Willber outside of the name itself.
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still, man was once diagnosed with a Napoleon complex.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Again, he calls himself the mouse that roars, right?
• 56:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is basically a small man, afraid of being irrelevant, who approaches the world with a ton of like narcissism and rage.
• 57:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: He ranges from committing basic crimes and running away to staying and hiding for long periods of time.
• 57:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: to joining up with gangs of criminals in intense revenge schemes, to suing superheroes and trying to get out of the villain game, to killing people on an alien planet in order to maintain his own importance, to hanging out with the bar with at the bar with no name, to teaming up with Daredevil, to ranting about how he deserves to rule the entire world, and to getting blown apart by rocket launchers fired by the Punisher.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He can be intense, he can be silly, but he's always wildly entertaining.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: What are your thoughts on the range of stillt man's stories over the years?
• 57:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: I just love that there's a whole stillt man like universe.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, character for everybody, didn't like relate to.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think that's pretty impressive.
• 57:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: That they chose like this one hilarious character.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: Has visually hilarious character and like expanded it.
• 57:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, staying power.
• 57:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it rocks that in his initial appearance, his whole thing is that he's kind of a dumb stooge.
• 58:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like his initial conception is that he is not the inventor of the stilts or the molecular condenser.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kexton invented both and he stole them because he was just like a lab aid who wanted to be smarter than he was, wanted to be more famous or more powerful or more wealthy than he was.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's not like he's not a super genius, he's a guy who stole somebody else's genius ideas.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But almost immediately later story start kind of retconning in that actually he's like a really smart guy.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: He just like wanted to take a shortcut and I think that rules like I think that's really good.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's he's not stupid.
• 58:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's really brilliant, but it would it would always be easier to take and modify somebody else is already created brilliant invention.
• 58:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why people criminals right in the Marvel universe anyway instead of like real life is because they want a quicker past to money than they could do on their own.
• 58:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's really interesting if you contrast this with the Lady Stiltman episode that Ruth and I did, she, that character is laughed at constantly.
• 58:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: She fights deadpool all the time and he's like, wow, Lady Stiltman and she's like, take me fucking seriously fucking asshole and like, Stiltman does get taken seriously.
• 59:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when she takes over the name, it's almost like a joke on the page every time, which is a really interesting parallel to this character.
• 59:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still man, despite the crazy gimmick of the characters, pretty consistently rat a lot of most across most of his appearances.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a supervillain of singularly obsessed with Stilt's and what's not to love.
• 59:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of writers focus on the gimmick of that, but others make him pretty scary.
• 59:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's constantly updating his Stilt's.
• 59:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's battle armor on extending legs.
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: He shoots himself up to several stories high.
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know why it doesn't get a jetpack because that would make a lot of sense.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the problem with shooting yourself up to hundreds of feet in the air is that your feet are always on the ground below.
• 59:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a lot of creative ways to defeat this man, which is sometimes very entertaining.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the armor is almost as much as impressive as the hydraulic stilt.
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: It gives him super strength, electric charges.
• 59:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes he puts silicone on the stilt to make them slippery and there's a weird lube on a penis joke waiting to happen for that story.
• 59:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: They run at hydraulic speeds.
• 59:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: The stills can go 30 to 60 miles per hour.
• 1:00:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has a built-in air purifier to protect himself from gas attacks.
• 1:00:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has a tear gas emitter.
• 1:00:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes he uses extending stilt fingers, which is just a bet Prince's Python really like that.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has super fast,
• 1:00:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: distilled extensions to hit with force grenades, boot jets, suction cups, molecular condensers, ray guns, and one time he even helped design a Z-ray, which sends foes to an alien world for a period of time when you're hit with it.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he's a brilliant inventor once again.
• 1:00:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's also used paint bombs.
• 1:00:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's had Adam Antium armor.
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltz that shoot out the sides of the armor, and after Lady Stiltman stole his gimmick, he also has Stiltz that get all turny-werny.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: They literally like, Dr. Octopus Arms.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, every time he's been defeated, he comes back with a new invention and a new plan to kick ass.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and one time he created a vacuum on his Stiltz, so he could suck up all the money in jewels, he was trying to still steal.
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: But again, about Prince's five-on love that, too.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love them together by the way, but we've legit never seen them interact on the page together.
• 1:01:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, the revelation of their marriage is after his death, and then she marries the given.
• 1:01:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it's, it's a whole journey.
• 1:01:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, ways Stiltman has been defeated, include shrinking him away to microscopic size when his gun gets turned back on him.
• 1:01:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still, it's getting tied up in Billy Clubwire.
• 1:01:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Getting electrocuted, while his stills are in a puddle, but also he's been electrocuted a bunch of times.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: toppled over by a cable wrapped around his legs, slashed in the face by the Falcon's bird red wing, beat with his own stilt that was ripped away, a slipping in grease and falling down, having his stilt tied together with a rope, a falling in grease again, but this time landing in a nest of cockroaches that infest his entire armor, and this man is very disturbed by those cockroaches in the appearance.
• 1:01:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's been stabbed, he's had broken bones, and one time his legs were severed from his body by a rocket launcher, and at his funeral, in the bar with no name, they laid him out in full armor across several pool tables, because the stilts were fully extended still.
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was dead dead, at least once, and then got reunited in that clone conspiracy event.
• 1:02:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: in the new U story.
• 1:02:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he is legit alive in a cloned body at this point.
• 1:02:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: I do respect his resourcefulness like he gets defeated one time.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, this is what I'll do different puts on the silicone on his stilt.
• 1:02:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Just makes all these changes, but still kind of gets stored in the end, but just every time he has something new and you gimmick while still going with his original gimmick and can't help it admire that.
• 1:02:30
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 1:02:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like every it's like every superhero fight he gets and is like a beta test for a new armor like he's always upgrading He's always like seeing what works and what doesn't and then like because like he's can do things like electrocute electrocute is suit to prevent people from holding on to it Like uses and people forget to those legs are like hydraulic rams He can he we've seen him like stomped she hooks through like multiple layers of pavement with them like they're
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: it's his suit is really impressive.
• 1:02:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just really a silly gimmick.
• 1:03:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's hard to, but he's always upgrading it.
• 1:03:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like you said, it's just, it's really, you really got to admire his willingness to just constantly try and grow and be better.
• 1:03:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's go Derek and then Steve.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I just, it's a piggyback off of that.
• 1:03:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like the, the new gimmicks, but like the, the way he's taking down visually, he's such a
• 1:03:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: funny characters, so of course it's comedic to happen like slip and grease or do something that um it just as an artist must be fun to draw.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I think it's fun to put in those situations.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know I just called him like a semi genius who always improves on stuff but I do want to call attention while we're talking about his powers to some of his boneheaded mistakes that lead to his defeats because it's just kind of it's just kind of wild after a bit like he has two problems in my opinion as a villain.
• 1:03:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of them is electrical grounding he gets
• 1:03:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: defeated in one occasion because his gun runs on electricity and he's standing in a river and Electro wades into that river to pull him out and save his life.
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you can figure out what I want to talk about, look, I work in electronics.
• 1:03:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand that entire that situation.
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: The other one is that he is constantly inventing really cool weapons that do something other than he intended.
• 1:04:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's his real problem.
• 1:04:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He invented the Z-Ray, which can send somebody to another planet across the universe.
• 1:04:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was supposed to just kill people, you know?
• 1:04:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: The molecular condenser is supposed to shrink people.
• 1:04:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It shrinks people into another dimension, not his fault.
• 1:04:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get it.
• 1:04:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he also thought that that was going to work.
• 1:04:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then additionally, not his fault, though.
• 1:04:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: The mass marauders shows up in one of these stories and also has a force field that instead of killing people teleport to them.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is going on?
• 1:04:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's awesome.
• 1:04:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just realizing now, there's another thing that Rampage and Steltman have in common.
• 1:04:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a, there's like a sub genre of villains who were like big nerds in high school and got named the most nerdy thing and then they become a super villain.
• 1:04:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like auto as Dr. Octopus and Mortimer becomes the toad, but we've got Stuart and Wilbur here.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what really makes me happy.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's begin the trial of Wilbur Day, Stilt Man.
• 1:04:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: We do not cover all of his appearances, but I did work for many years on the Marvel Handbooks.
• 1:05:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I did write the Stilt Man profile.
• 1:05:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I also put that profile up in extreme detail on the Marvel appendix, which is still updated by B.
• 1:05:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you'd like to go see the Chad Man profile on Stilt Man, you can look it up.
• 1:05:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has a pretty comprehensive history.
• 1:05:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: We are not covering it all here.
• 1:05:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Trial point one, we're calling molecular condensers in Z-rays.
• 1:05:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: The assigned jury member here is Steve Duda.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: The key issues are Daredevil Volume 1, numbers eight, 26 and 27, and 48, 67, and 102.
• 1:05:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: As well as Daredevil Special Number One.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Daredevil Volume 3, number 17.
• 1:05:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Captain America, 191, Black Goliath 4, and Champions Number 12.
• 1:05:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a long list here.
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So still, man, we'll be showing up in our Champions Reeds eventually.
• 1:05:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: After planting a bomb in a driverless car as a distraction, still man extended up to sky height to rob a helicopter.
• 1:05:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: He used a grenade to cover the windshield with ink and then threatened an explosive grenade next.
• 1:05:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: He later robbed a rooftop party.
• 1:06:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: First tossing a sleep desk grenade, then using a huge vacuum to suck up all the money in jewelry.
• 1:06:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Daredevil attacked,
• 1:06:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman kicked the hero into the wall with a stilt kick and walked away.
• 1:06:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: During a third robbery, Stiltman was immune to police gunfire.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when Daredevil tried climbing his stilt, the villain greased it up to slide the hero loose and then walked away across the river to escape.
• 1:06:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, posing as the mild mannered Wilbur Day, still men manipulated attorney Matt Murdoch into forming a lawsuit against Carl Caxton, so that he could steal the molecular condenser, a gun that can shrink anything away into seeming non-existence, but at a key moment, their double-made stilt man dropped the gun and he faded away into nothing.
• 1:06:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Honey, I shrugged the supervillain, what an entrance, that's just the first appearance.
• 1:06:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman later returns to normal size, he's thrilled he still has stiltes.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: After modifying his armor to double his strength, he reached up to the criminal leap frog, who I love, to form a partnership, but leap frog broke his leg while escaping from the authorities, and so now Stiltman is suddenly battling Daredevil again.
• 1:07:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Despite his laser blaster, Stiltman ended up with his legs tied together, sending him crashing to the ground.
• 1:07:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Luckily, the masked Marauder picked him up.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: After demonstrating how fast his stills worked, Stiltman kidnapped Matt Murdoch, Foggy Nelson, and Karen Page in order to set a trap for Daredevil, who had put it out there that his real identity was actually Matt Murdoch's fake twin brother Mike Murdoch.
• 1:07:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry about it.
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a big stilt battle across the city, and day gets defeated, and the marauders seemingly blows up.
• 1:07:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still man next joined the emissaries of evil, the poor man's version of the sinister six.
• 1:07:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Alongside villains, Gladiator, leapfrog, the Matador, and Electro, and they decide to attack Daredevil one at a time.
• 1:07:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stilled man shrinks out of Billy Club cables, Daredevil's fist hurts after he punches the metal armor, and then Daredevil triggered the stilt's to activate, which sent day crashing into a wall.
• 1:07:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: want, want, still man, then took a job from the mob to kill the potential district attorney Foggy Nelson.
• 1:08:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he ended up fighting Daredevil instead.
• 1:08:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in one key moment in the fight, he still stood Daredevil out of a window and then retracted hoping to drop the hero 15 stories to his death.
• 1:08:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this time, he gets away.
• 1:08:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stutman was hired once again to kill Foggy Nelson, and to steal some evidence that he had for some criminals, Daredevil fought back once again, and Stutman nearly drowned him by pinning him to the bottom of the river before he ended up defeated.
• 1:08:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: In a revenge plot on Daredevil, Stutman knocked out the stunt master, and then did stage make up to make himself look like the stunt master.
• 1:08:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's literally two full pages of him putting on makeup in this story, which is wild.
• 1:08:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then he disguised his stilts to look like exhaust tubes on stunt master's motorcycle.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then showed up on the set of the stunt master TV show and at a random moment during the crash, he's like, ah, it's really me, stilt man.
• 1:08:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And attack Daredevil in the water they fight.
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: He crushed a boat, he endangered some civilians, and then Daredevil knocked him over.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Guys, wildly fun, every one of these.
• 1:08:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Months later in San Francisco, Stuttman and his new partner, Jill Andros, kidnapped Barbara Caxton, the daughter of Carl Caxton.
• 1:09:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: and tied and gagged her on a bed while forcing Caxton to modify the molecular condenser into a super weapon, and then David can bragging about how he would kill Daredevil and become a billionaire and be treated as a god, so we're seeing the god complex.
• 1:09:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: While trying to get all the parts needed for this super weapon, again using stage makeup and to cover identity, still man fell a foul of Daredevil and the black widow, and after a fight he ended up temporarily blinded and then toppled through a window, defeated once again.
• 1:09:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He then was hired to kill the Falcon, who had a court appearance based on the false history of him being snap Wilson, fuck the red skull for that story for another time.
• 1:09:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman first stole technology from the trapster, and then let the other villain fall to his seaming death, and then he broke into a courtroom, courtroom throwing paste bombs at Captain America, and firing shots at heroes and civilians, Redwing diverted Stiltman, who then tried stopping on the heroes,
• 1:09:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Falcon got his helmet off, juggernaut style, leaving his face open for redwing to slash.
• 1:10:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you got this guy, he's got to be like, ah, what the f- fucking Falcon's scratching my face.
• 1:10:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Punched out, still man toppled over after standing seven tour stories tall.
• 1:10:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Finally in this section, after developing the powerful Z-ray, which could teleport someone to an alien planet.
• 1:10:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman escaped from jail and planned to announce himself as the new kingpin of Los Angeles.
• 1:10:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: He fought the hero Black Goliath repeatedly, in dangering civilians with gas bombs, and taking the woman's celiacs and hostage before a briefly before he hit Black Goliath with the Z-Ray.
• 1:10:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman got the Z-Ray, goes after Black Goliath, who teams up with the champions, Stiltman holds his own against the entire team of superheroes, including the Greek Demigod, and demonstrated two new capabilities.
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stilt's heat up now, and number two, he can jettison himself out of the bottom of the Stilt's on smaller Stilt's that are within.
• 1:10:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: In this issue, Black Goliath rips off a Stilt and then beats day unconscious with it.
• 1:11:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Great job.
• 1:11:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me turn it over to Steve Duda.
• 1:11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 1:11:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
• 1:11:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to talk today about the defendant still man.
• 1:11:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: First I would like to lead off with a what will essentially read off as a litany of crimes.
• 1:11:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Still man over the course of his early career.
• 1:11:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: His motive seemingly is always either robbery, personal power, or to become a god.
• 1:11:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: God like delusions a grandeur is often willing to hire himself out to assassinate.
• 1:11:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Super heroes and even petty figures as small as the New York Potential DA, Foggy Nelson.
• 1:11:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Berglery, Larsonie, General Mayhem, Causing Chaos, attempted assassination.
• 1:11:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what we have to look at, and in fact, probable assassination or probable murder.
• 1:11:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: He famously loves to lob bombs, whether they are grenades, timed bombs in the case of a car or obscurance to cause General Chaos.
• 1:11:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: The runaway car that he unleashes nearly kills the woman and then further blows up and luckily Daredevil was able to submerge the car before the explosion who knows how many city blocks it could have taken out.
• 1:12:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this was all just for distraction.
• 1:12:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: All he wanted to do was robability on the other side of town.
• 1:12:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Robo helicopter really.
• 1:12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: but he has no confunctions whatsoever about threats of murder, reckless endangerment.
• 1:12:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: His favorite kind of robbery is an armed robbery.
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's always packing a weapon.
• 1:12:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: A weapon's which, despite being able to shrink or teleport people to other planets, he loudly and publicly has claimed he thought would result in the deaths of the superheroes involved.
• 1:12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: He thought that he had killed Black Elias after teleporting him to another planet, and he definitely didn't think he would be coming back from being molecularly condensed by accident by the hero Daredevil in the attempt of kidnapping him.
• 1:12:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: He kidnapped most Dr. Carl Caxton, a man a poor man who he has been victimizing for his entire career as a super group.
• 1:12:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Kenneth's daughter Barbara, leaving her in the quote unquote, the tender mercies of his goon and rose.
• 1:12:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: The implication here is sexual violence, making no mistake.
• 1:13:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: His attempts to hook up with Electro for a second attempt at a Senator's six in the form of the emissaries of evil reveals a mind that is accepting of any level of chaos and murder in order to get his revenge on his fixated our enemy Daredevil.
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: He never turns away from any chance to commit a smallest assassination or burglary when asked by characters even when he has nothing to do with the mob on his own.
• 1:13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, at one point in L.A. he tries to
• 1:13:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: of L.A.'s underworld crime, something even the police think of as a joke, perhaps because they are unfamiliar with his deadly arsenal and his track record.
• 1:13:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: He tries to kill Foggy Nelson, the D.A.
• 1:13:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: by throwing him out of high window, a favorite past time of his.
• 1:13:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: He also attempts to, he does throw Bill Foster Goliath 300 feet down into a building with the attempt to kill him.
• 1:13:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Between all of his shootings, his attempted assassinations of Sam Wilson and Foggy Nelson and Daredevil, throwing many people down seven stories, 300 feet, however much it needs to be.
• 1:14:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: He can go as high as he wants.
• 1:14:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a man with a murderous and a ravenous intent for personal power for wealth and self-aggrandizement.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: What more can be said about his evil motives, and additionally, I think you have to hold him responsible for his property damage and the fact that at one point, he does, in fact, swing a police helicopter headfirst into a building, presumably killing all police officers inside.
• 1:14:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if I can switch to defense for a second here, my client will today allegedly the stilt man has never successfully committed a crime.
• 1:14:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And all of these instances of intended crime and intended assassinations and intended burglaries never once has actually managed to commit the crime with.
• 1:14:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sorry to say this because this will be a brief defense in light of the defendant's behavior.
• 1:14:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: The exception of having probably killed the police officers in that copter.
• 1:14:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whether or not that constitutes a crime, I will leave to the jury, my case rests.
• 1:15:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't see any bodies, that's all I'm saying.
• 1:15:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: to this crime, who can even say whether that would have been a crime or whether he intended it.
• 1:15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, I have to ask for leniency because he is not a successful criminal, your honors.
• 1:15:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: He is delightfully fun across these appearances, such a good time, and God does he get his ass kicked over and over again.
• 1:15:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've always wondered, because a lot of times the stills are drawn very thin, how does his feet work inside the stills?
• 1:15:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Are they just pointed down the whole time?
• 1:15:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It appears that he's just standing, you know, inside of a large container, but it is interesting how it's shown to be able to expand his feeds or as Chad said in his one of his later appearances in this run, detach and form into like Dr. Octopus, Dr. Puss style claws to walk on.
• 1:15:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It seems very awkward.
• 1:15:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's got very small feet.
• 1:15:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: That answers that.
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: The NT toes and a couple pages of stage makeup and nothing makes this man happier.
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know he's a cosplayer.
• 1:16:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome.
• 1:16:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: The wife holds in for him.
• 1:16:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: He cannot stand on his feet.
• 1:16:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why he had to create the stilts.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not as bold.
• 1:16:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love this.
• 1:16:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love this guy so much.
• 1:16:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's so much fun.
• 1:16:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to go with a three.
• 1:16:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: He does he does some crimes, but like this is this is mostly hijinks.
• 1:16:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I was I was going to go to and then he brought up the policemen, but you know what, accident happened.
• 1:16:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I landed on a three though.
• 1:16:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: In this section of his history, I'm probably going to give him a three.
• 1:16:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of it's just Tom Fuller-E, Shenanigans, but to quote
• 1:16:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it's a one for me.
• 1:16:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: This man has done nothing but bring me joy thus far.
• 1:16:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I'm going for a three on this one.
• 1:16:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems a little more malicious than my guy ran to age.
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm going to lower my dinner to by the way.
• 1:16:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm, I've just just thinking about it here.
• 1:16:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess for me, I'm going to, I'm going to give him a two.
• 1:16:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't really do anything that's that bad, even though he, there's really no defense for it.
• 1:16:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's against us in the section.
• 1:16:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a 14th of a 30 in that section, which takes us to trial point two, which we are calling gyroscopic stabilizers and adamantium alloys.
• 1:17:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: The messenger I remember here is Jay Cosmic, the key issues, for I had you jump on all over the place here, buddy.
• 1:17:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thor 269, Daredevil 186, amazing spider-man 237, Ironman 225, sensational She-Hulk 4, fantastic 4336, Daredevil 317 and 18, and Avengers Unpluged Number 4.
• 1:17:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman has been liberated from jail by some mysterious benefactors, and weirdly it turns out it was Blastar at a weird group named Faust, and they give them a new set of armor with adamantium alloys, and a new gyroscopic stabilizers, meaning the Stilt's can bend now.
• 1:17:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman uses gas on some men to steal a box from a helicopter, and then Thor attacks and Stiltman's armor gets taken over by remote control by Blastar, and then he gets his ass kicked.
• 1:17:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stillman is then hired to kidnap attorney Maxine Lavender, who's a really fun Daredevil villain from the 80s.
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he ends up getting hit over the head by Turk Barrett, who then steals his stiltman identity for a time until Wilbur Day himself helps stop him.
• 1:17:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Desperate to feel relevant again, Wilbur Day breaks into a stark facility to rebuild himself a new armored suit.
• 1:18:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: But before it was finished, he had to battle Spider-Man wearing only the stilt.
• 1:18:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not the battle armor.
• 1:18:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: But luckily, he has created the Silt's in silicone, so the spiderwebbing will no longer stick to the Stilt's.
• 1:18:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Day weaponizes Stark's entire weapon's facility against Spider-Man while his new armor is being finished.
• 1:18:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then he gets the upper hand on Spider-Man, but doesn't want to kill him because no one would be able to see.
• 1:18:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, why kill him when no one's watching?
• 1:18:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's no point.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still, man, then carries the unconscious superhero to the police, leaves him there and walks away saying, we are now even.
• 1:18:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Brilliant, brilliant.
• 1:18:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Soon after Stilt Man tries to steal some documents, but Iron Man arrives, topples him over, kicks him at, kicks his ass and then renders the technology useless, revenge for Stark, tech being stolen.
• 1:18:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is part of the armor wars.
• 1:18:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now back in operation, Stilt Man walks down the street, giving very little thoughts to anything beneath him, and he ends up stomping on
• 1:18:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's pissed.
• 1:19:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: So she attacks him and he insults her and tosses her in the trash and he ends up getting defeated because the blonde Phantom is here and she spreads some lard underneath his stilts.
• 1:19:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then she, she hope like wish bones is stilt.
• 1:19:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like pulls him like a wish boated, he falls over.
• 1:19:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still man attacks the fantastic four in a courthouse, alongside many other supervillains who had been manipulated by some doctor-dum and motion technology, and he gets defeated, and has a very hot cop arrest him.
• 1:19:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: The cop goes, you know, pal?
• 1:19:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: You got the best look on legs, I've seen since Cindy Crawford.
• 1:19:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: You shouldn't be had in the manner of those stillts and stillt man goes.
• 1:19:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Police brutality, police brutality, I demand to speak to my lawyer.
• 1:19:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: You haven't got the right to arrest me.
• 1:19:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Look at the damage to my armor.
• 1:19:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Somebody will pay for this.
• 1:19:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm suing.
• 1:19:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: After hearing about the wealthy slick Jimmy dying, and slick Jimmy has left behind a half million dollars in stashed restaurant grease.
• 1:19:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry about it.
• 1:19:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's barrels of grease for the bunch of money.
• 1:19:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a weird story.
• 1:19:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still man decides to go after the grease.
• 1:19:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: He retrieves his stills from a storage facility, assaulting a guard in order to get in.
• 1:20:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then he ends up in a fight with Daredevil at the same time as the heroes punching out other super villains.
• 1:20:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Including, I love this guy, Tattered Demalian,
• 1:20:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: hacker and the wild boys.
• 1:20:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: During the fight a nest of cockroaches gets awakened inside of the stilts from the storage unit.
• 1:20:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Crawl through his armor and he's freaking out and ends up causing a car accident.
• 1:20:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: He narrowly avoids getting killed by the taskmaster.
• 1:20:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: He gets sprayed in the eyes by a woman wielding bug spray and then he slips into stolen grease and falls to the ground, begging for mercy and also no more cockroaches.
• 1:20:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later while attending the wedding of Titania and the absorbing man, Stiltman fights the attacking Avengers who later withdrew after they realized that they had crashed a supervillain wedding, and Stiltman who's upgraded his armor with gyroscopic stabilizers and more flexibility, and the extending Stiltfingers has some very awkward moments with giant man all tangled up in his legs in weird 90s art and then the fight ends.
• 1:21:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me turn it over to Jane Cosmic.
• 1:21:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you had a blast with these buddy.
• 1:21:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: It was a lot of fun.
• 1:21:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of funny because before we're going into this, I have this cockroach necklace.
• 1:21:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: I almost wore, but I thought it wouldn't have been professional to wear the court, so that I couldn't find it.
• 1:21:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: So you're honored and esteemed jury.
• 1:21:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: Can we hold Stiltman accountable for a job he was hired to do, especially when he was threatened with his life?
• 1:21:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, he endangered those piloting the helicopter, which invariably endangered the people below, but Wilbur showed he was willing to do what he needed to get the job done for Blastar at the threat of his life.
• 1:21:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: On the other hand, his carelessness makes him a liability, and he still could have caused more harm than he actually did.
• 1:21:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Had Thornaut arrived, who knows how many lives could have been taken.
• 1:21:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wilbur was careless and his attempt to cannot Maxine Lavender, not only losing his glove, but having his suit stolen.
• 1:21:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: In this instant, he was a victim and cannot be held accountable for someone else's crimes, and relating to the glove.
• 1:21:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: If it does not fit, he cannot equip.
• 1:22:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: What if this still doesn't fit?
• 1:22:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: In his interactions with Spider-Man, he was delusional enough to break into start enterprises to make himself another suit, but still showed mercy to Spider-Man after getting what he wanted.
• 1:22:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: Although, he did not last long when he was stored by Iron Man.
• 1:22:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: In the stretch of events, all we can accuse Willbrough is theft and break-in-enter, but has harmed
• 1:22:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: To those around him was minimal, in his encounters as she hoped, he was nothing more than a menace to those around him, showing a complete disregard for what he stepped on, including blonde phantom and she holed herself.
• 1:22:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: This will include multiple charges of property damage to the city of New York.
• 1:22:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: public transit system, infrastructure, and the cafe table, Jen and Blond Phantom were having coffee at.
• 1:22:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: In his encounter with Daredevil, Stiltman showed reckless endangerment to those around him after causing a car accident, and assaulting the guard of the storage facility his suit was located at.
• 1:22:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: While his uniform was improperly stored, resulting in roaches, infesting his suit while it was being worn, the storage company cannot be held accountable for a roach nest forming in his suit.
• 1:23:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wilbur should have had that properly sealed, inspected and disinfected.
• 1:23:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: He was also a public nuisance and wrongfully entered the private residents of a woman who did not want to be burdened with roaches and
• 1:23:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: was just trying to live her life.
• 1:23:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: He was a nuisance to the fantastic four and the Avengers.
• 1:23:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: His only crime in the fantastic four issue was having killer legs.
• 1:23:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: If that's something to be arrested for, lock me up.
• 1:23:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: His arrest simulator breakouts show the ineffective use of the American tax dollar and his obsession with Tony Stark.
• 1:23:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Only furtherers, only further shows the lack of focus on rehabilitation and care for mental health.
• 1:23:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wilbur has shown he has
• 1:23:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: reckless with his own technology.
• 1:23:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: If a car needs a license to be operated safely, why not still?
• 1:23:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: While the harm he caused to others was minimal, he shows a complete disregard to those around him and the property of others and is better off behind bars.
• 1:23:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: While only one of these cases were for higher, the rest are for the selfish interests of Wilbur and his ego and community service is something that would benefit him.
• 1:24:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: On a scale of 1 to 5, the severity of his crimes are a 3 out of 5 for me.
• 1:24:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: He has not killed anyone, but he could get someone killed and he's unwilling to take responsibility of the risk of at the risk of damaging his ego.
• 1:24:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's self aware enough to know he's a flop, take away his stilt and get him into another hobby, whether that be crocheting, something like that.
• 1:24:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: He needs a new hobby and once validation.
• 1:24:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's plenty of outlet outlets to fulfill those needs.
• 1:24:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: Crime is not paying his bills and who he surrounds himself with.
• 1:24:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: is not helping.
• 1:24:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was delicious, really, really fun.
• 1:24:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: What was your experience reading these this section of Stylman's history?
• 1:24:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then what did you toss your vote, are we?
• 1:24:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I just thought it was a lot of fun, just especially the roaches that was sending me just the carelessness, the way
• 1:24:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: He puts it all this thought to like, what if I do this to be successful next time?
• 1:24:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: But then still somehow always misses something.
• 1:24:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just like, you're not quite there at being successful.
• 1:25:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: For me, it's a three out of five.
• 1:25:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, he has not killed anyone, but he could get someone killed.
• 1:25:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: And
• 1:25:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: He is unwilling to take responsibility at the risk of damaging his ego.
• 1:25:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like he's somewhere enough to know like he's not the best at what he does.
• 1:25:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, you know, he's causing damage and is just being a general menace to society.
• 1:25:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a one for me again.
• 1:25:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I enjoyed every story.
• 1:25:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: What harm did he do at the end of the day?
• 1:25:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wild hijinks.
• 1:25:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love this guy.
• 1:25:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: Also one for me, too.
• 1:25:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is all just fun.
• 1:25:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like didn't kill anybody.
• 1:25:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Didn't.
• 1:25:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, great.
• 1:25:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Good guy.
• 1:25:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean bad guy.
• 1:25:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: But fun.
• 1:25:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's also one for me.
• 1:25:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was at a wedding man.
• 1:25:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: One.
• 1:25:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: He literally got defeated by cockroaches.
• 1:25:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going one on this one.
• 1:25:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: You got me second guessing my thoughts now.
• 1:25:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's just like having to harsh.
• 1:25:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no rating scale.
• 1:25:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the thing with these juries.
• 1:25:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that gives us an
• 1:25:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: out of 30 of the ice, like should which is wild.
• 1:25:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then our final one, trial 0.3, which we're calling, swirly stilt legs and telescopic stilt arms.
• 1:26:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: The assigned jury member here is theater.
• 1:26:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Chase, the key issues here are Daredevil Spider-Man, 1 through 4, Daredevil Volume 2, 41, Punisher War Journal, Volume 2, Number 1, Daredevil Volume 6, 18 through 20,
• 1:26:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Deadpool, nerdy 30, number one, that's a series, and then finally Iron Man Volume 6 10 and 11, which is his most recent appearance at his most serious crimes.
• 1:26:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll get there in a moment.
• 1:26:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: While in jail, Stiltman spent some time in therapy, dealing with his Napoleon complex, but ended up befriending the owl and the gladiator, this one Wiley Lemic, not the one that we love, whose Melvin Potter.
• 1:26:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh Melvin, it's another nerdy,
• 1:26:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: The three of them pretended to do group therapy, but secretly they were planning heists.
• 1:26:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they called themselves the gang of three.
• 1:26:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Aw, buddies.
• 1:26:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then when they all broke out of jail together, they joined up with the creepy Copperhead and changed their name to the gang of four.
• 1:26:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they had big plans, these friends, and they all had each other's back.
• 1:27:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then Spider-Man, excuse me, still man pushed the group to go after the kingpin directly.
• 1:27:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: They attacked
• 1:27:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: and killed all of the kingpins guards, and then at his home, and then fired missiles at the penthouse, trying to kill anyone within, but the kingpins doesn't die, and suddenly Spider-Man and Daredevil are battling the evil buddies gang, and while they're holding the heroes at gunpoint stillman, monologues about how they all met in therapy, and then he's firing his gun and yelling, I'm not short, and
• 1:27:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: of course he gets defeated.
• 1:27:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is a Paul Jenkins series.
• 1:27:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I talked to Paul very briefly about this and our typeface episode also out on the Patreon for gimmick villain month.
• 1:27:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uber Day showed up at the offices later of Matt Murdoch and Foggy Nelson in Brian Michael Bendus' brilliant run on Daredevil.
• 1:27:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: This whole run is excellent if you haven't read it highly, highly recommended front-to-back.
• 1:27:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is furious Matt Murdoch has revealed his identity to the public and when he shows up still man is like so pissed off because Daredevil is like I don't know Matt Murdoch's like I don't know who you are.
• 1:28:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like yes, you do I'm one of your archenemesis God damn it.
• 1:28:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know you're Daredevil You're gonna sit there and pretend you don't know me.
• 1:28:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Wilbur Day.
• 1:28:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm still man.
• 1:28:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: We met four hundred times
• 1:28:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: and Matt Murruck goes, oh, you mean that burglar guy?
• 1:28:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman, who wears the Stiltz and Rob's things?
• 1:28:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I came to tell you that you've won.
• 1:28:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I quit.
• 1:28:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: In this case is my Stiltman armor.
• 1:28:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm giving it to you.
• 1:28:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am leaving town.
• 1:28:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am never coming back.
• 1:28:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: You've won.
• 1:28:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you wonder why someone hasn't killed you since you came out with your identity?
• 1:28:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because they're scared to death of you.
• 1:28:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't admit to you now because I'm done on out.
• 1:28:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am sick of waking up in the middle of the night, covered in cold sweat, scared of you.
• 1:28:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it turns out he recently put all of his money into buying a piece of the Kingpins territory from Vanessa Fisk, like you put his whole life savings into it.
• 1:28:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: But now the owl has declared a full gang war.
• 1:28:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I am out my money.
• 1:28:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a girlfriend in the hospital with a broken back.
• 1:28:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a fucking broken arm.
• 1:29:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I am leaving the owl, the kingpin, you and your stupid, you're all insane and I am leaving.
• 1:29:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then he learns that Murdoch's enforcer at the law office is now Melvin Potter, the gladiator that we referenced before.
• 1:29:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Stuttman's like, oh, I get it.
• 1:29:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's been kingpin this entire time.
• 1:29:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like you've always been the kingpin, ever since my first appearance.
• 1:29:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a really delightful appearance, you guys.
• 1:29:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, in an updated suit of armor, Stiltman tried collecting a bounty on an escaped criminal that the Punisher intervened fire at a rocket launcher and severed Stiltman's legs before shooting him dead.
• 1:29:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now again, he comes back to life in the clone conspiracy, but he should have, he tried to walk away and it ends up dying shortly after.
• 1:29:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: After his resurrection, now he has new swirly stilt legs, and he's been hired alongside rhino, crossbones, and bullseye by billionaire's Quinn and Unastromwyn.
• 1:29:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: To raise Hell's Kitchen in their war gets Daredevil.
• 1:29:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he's out here now dropping bombs on cars and buildings, and Daredevil beats the shit out of him and stabs him in the arm and blows his stilt's off.
• 1:30:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Later, he's back again with now telescoping stilt arms, and he attacks
• 1:30:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember the Caxton Great, he attacks Karl Caxton's laboratories because they've stolen his life work, but Deadpool, Agent X, Domino, and Diamondback to feed him.
• 1:30:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And fun fact, we learned that he's commando under that armor in the appearance of Deadpool stories you guys.
• 1:30:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Finally, in his most recent appearance,
• 1:30:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Iron Man who has to keep his armor on because he has a broken neck, but also he's taking pain meds that he's become addicted to.
• 1:30:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is the Christopher Cantwell brilliant Iron Man Ron very recently.
• 1:30:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay Iron Man ends up stranded on an alien planet known as Megito, where many alien refugees have formed a successful civilization while isolated from their various planets.
• 1:30:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stiltman has ended up here and he's kind of taken on the Wizard of Oz role as the man behind the curtain who's keeping this entire society running and he's like oh I'm your leader he's got this big white bushy beard here.
• 1:31:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm keeping everyone safe and well and everything is great.
• 1:31:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Look how great I am.
• 1:31:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a bunch of ultimose, which are basically like Iron Man Sentinels attacking the society and killing people repeatedly, and everyone has to keep hiding in caves, and Iron Man helps turn the tide on the ultimose, but soon we get the big revelation, still man is behind it all.
• 1:31:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was bored on Earth, so he took himself to the planet that designs ultimose, and then uses technology to like start pulling people from everywhere to live there.
• 1:31:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Remember that gun he fired the one time to send people to an alien planet?
• 1:31:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is that.
• 1:31:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: but out of really weird, amplified level.
• 1:31:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he's been using ultimose to keep people scared and loyal to him, which means he's regularly murdering people.
• 1:31:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he wants to feel like he's important in part of something.
• 1:31:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: One of the characters pulled there as a very obscure character named Colin Richard or Avro X.
• 1:31:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he and Ironman turned on Stiltman after realizing that he's behind it.
• 1:31:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: He ends up overrun by all of the civilians who turn on him and they send him back to Earth.
• 1:31:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: where he ends up in jail.
• 1:31:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is a little more serious concept.
• 1:32:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me turn it over to Theodate for this section.
• 1:32:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Folks of the jury, I'm here to today to both prosecute and represent my client Wilbur Day in his latest arrest.
• 1:32:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: This trial at Gray Malkenland be Wilbur Day.
• 1:32:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: To start with the prosecution, I need only to list the crimes committed by Mr. Day and the pursuit of power, money, and control.
• 1:32:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: This man broke out of prison, committed countless murders, attempted murders, theft, arm robbery, mass destruction,
• 1:32:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: of public and private property, kidnapping, and not once has been shown to use a crosswalk.
• 1:32:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: His actions alone on the planet Megito, kidnapping thousands of, sorry, not thousands, countless individuals from the planet, across the planet, across the galaxy, and remote control of giant murderous robots create fear resulting in numerous innocent deaths.
• 1:32:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Make him a wanted man on a galactic scale.
• 1:32:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: For this, I recommend that Mr. Day should not be allowed to set one telescoping hydraulic foot outside of a cell for the rest of his natural life,
• 1:32:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now for the defense.
• 1:32:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: First of all, the court must throw out any and all criminal activity before the events of Punisher Ward Journal number one.
• 1:32:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Not only was Mr. Day under the mental influence of the demon copperhead for the entirety of his involvement of the gang of four, but Mr. Day's enlistment through the Registration Act requires the expunging of Mr. Day's previous record.
• 1:33:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Furthermore, I would like to talk about criminal rehabilitation.
• 1:33:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: My client is, by all means, a prime candidate for proper reintegration in society, and yet has been denied this opportunity, every turn had every turn.
• 1:33:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Mr. Day has repeatedly attempted to put his criminal pass behind him, including giving us still man suit to fellow counselor Matt Fumeurdock.
• 1:33:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: as well as on listing government programs to put his talent to construct a view.
• 1:33:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: He hasn't said, been targeted by violent vigilantes such as the mass murder or frank castle, mercenaries and criminals alike.
• 1:33:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: His attempts at receiving mental health care have been interrupted and his means of legally earned income have been denied.
• 1:33:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Is it any wonder that Mr. Day felt the only way he could live a peaceful life was in a society he created from scratch?
• 1:33:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: The roadmap to re-entry found on the U.S. Department of Justice website says that the key to reducing an individual's chances of recidivism is to ensure that they have the means to have opportunities outside of prison to function in society, including mental health care, housing and employment.
• 1:34:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: These are opportunities that have been denied yesterday and preventing him from being the law-abiding citizen he clearly wishes to be.
• 1:34:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: For this, I request leniency for my client.
• 1:34:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
• 1:34:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: What was it like for you to revisit the darker times of stilt man these are these are more rough stories We got like mass murder still man after Daredevil blew him up that one time I almost wonder if like the clone factory brought him back wrong
• 1:34:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know because after um I mean he's definitely I do feel like we have more or apparent mental health issues going on in this section like throughout he seems he seems to be really struggling with like understanding his like the world around him and what people are expecting or needing from him even his even his like time kidnapping people across like planets he seems to just kind of
• 1:34:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: he's controlling the ultimos to kill people, but like he really thinks the way he describes it, he really seems to think he's like that's the only thing that's going to keep this like society from like falling apart.
• 1:35:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he really thinks that that's this is for the best for people.
• 1:35:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: And the Spider-Man Daredevil mini is he's just like unhinged in that.
• 1:35:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: he is completely, he's pretty much completely under the control of the demon of the demon, now demonic copperhead and it's just like a cackling maniac that whole time.
• 1:35:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Also in the worse looking suit he's ever had.
• 1:35:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: It has like, it has like handlebars around his head.
• 1:35:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's pretty bad.
• 1:35:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, he's he's just he seems to be having a rough time at this in this period.
• 1:35:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:35:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I almost wonder like what's going on off screen, right?
• 1:35:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like he has a kid, princess Python married somebody else.
• 1:35:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's coming back all the time.
• 1:35:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's so many things going on.
• 1:35:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm assuming for most of the jury, it's gonna be a five for this.
• 1:35:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it
• 1:36:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think there's mitigating factors here.
• 1:36:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think he, I think he does some pretty heinous stuff, but I think there's parts of it where he's just not in, he's not receiving the support he's supposed to be, and it wouldn't have happened, had it like played out just slightly different.
• 1:36:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: That he, I'm going for because he's definitely, he definitely does some pretty terrible stuff, but I, but I, I just feel like there's too much other stuff going on for us to really go full, full evil on this.
• 1:36:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've been very generous with my votes, but mass murder, yeah, it's five for me.
• 1:36:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I hear you, I do, it's not on Steve.
• 1:36:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he literally got shot in the dick by a rocket launcher.
• 1:36:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is a crotch rocket at this point.
• 1:36:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I gave him some grace.
• 1:36:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, the mass murder stuff is bad, but it's not as bad as like, because you also put me on the Baron Zemo and the, uh, we're just being throwing into one.
• 1:36:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So compared to those, I'm giving him a four.
• 1:36:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not the worst.
• 1:36:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what to say about my clients got shot in the very funny.
• 1:36:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to say this other than that like
• 1:36:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make almond on this in a long time in these trials, but I'm going to do this again.
• 1:37:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make an appeal to regular Marvel comics bullshit when it comes to villain because it is mass murder, but I'm with the on this one that like I read this ironman run when it was coming out and it is very is very interesting is very nuanced the portrayal of Wilbur Day in it and I think that yes, the impact of his actions in this section is greater and far worse than any previous section.
• 1:37:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he is far less in command of himself and aware of like he's he's far more disconnected from the ethics and the reality of his actions and this run in this arc I think then he is in the other two seconds and I'd rather give him a four just for that as much as the things he does are definitely worse than ever for sure.
• 1:37:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that gives us a 27 out of 30 in that last section, which when we add it to the previously accrued 22 points, which gives us a 54% on the ASL school, which is much lower than still been probably deserved, but got us here a good time.
• 1:37:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would love to check him with the YouTube view about how we're feeling about our recession era villain inventors for Marvel gimmick month.
• 1:38:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Enjoy both of these characters.
• 1:38:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is kind of a genre or space of like tech-based villain that are wildly fun.
• 1:38:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we have some really impressive runs of comics that we've dubbed into, particularly with some of the Daredevil stuff.
• 1:38:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like, that Christopher Kentwell Ironman run is...
• 1:38:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: incredible writing reading and ascentee on Daredevil or or Brian Michael Bend is like there's some really delicious comics in the midst of all this so I hope we have all had a great time exploring these particular super villains now at the end of these trials I always announced the next three so follow the show game on the underscore lane in may you can watch for the trial of Janet van Dyne the was one of my all time favorite characters
• 1:38:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've had so much fun putting that one together and we have an all-female jury, of course, Janet deserves no less.
• 1:38:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I skipped April.
• 1:38:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
• 1:38:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: In April, we're doing the trial.
• 1:38:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: The raw hide kid.
• 1:38:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to jump into the world of gay cowboys.
• 1:39:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody watched broke back mountain beforehand.
• 1:39:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I covered me.
• 1:39:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then in June for Pride Month, we're going to do the trial of Black Tom Cassidy.
• 1:39:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jaggernaut's husband is getting the future.
• 1:39:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to have a really fun
• 1:39:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, final thoughts like I think about the world today and like these two villains kind of offer escape isn't in a way like just the zany antics that they're both doing it in the first half of rampages comic history and then everything still man has done besides that Iron Man story like the escape again, this escape to that zany realm of how still man is so like.
• 1:39:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: I appreciate these types of characters so much because they just add so much color to like the Marbley universe in general and it could just be like Thanos coming white me everybody away these just hijinks and shandans so I again appreciate the opportunity dive into this.
• 1:39:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: There is a more modern still man's story that I didn't include in the trial after he goes to jail after the Ironman run he goes to a jail called them remitten where Daredevil has taken on kind of a kingpin role as the leader of the fist and he brings together a group of villains that he's trying to rehab and it's it's a kind of a fun arc for still man who gets a little bit more context in that more redemptive arc which is crazy because just a few months before that like he was blowing up hell's kitchen for those billionaires.
• 1:40:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so just an hour you can find me on Instagram, there are Jane Nichols, and then blue sky, there are dark, dark, dark hearts, BFLO, and I think this will be I'll be in Chicago for C2E2, so I will be dressed up as Wonder Man at that time, so yeah, the connection to rampage I guess maybe there will be a secret rampage reveal everyone.
• 1:40:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see that's Steve rampage of the character that I had nothing for going into this so coming out of it I wouldn't say I like rampage but given given the disastrous calamitous turn that the United States has taken with technology and with bootstrapers and with this kind of like war profiteering upper class that feels itself to be victimized at every turn by somebody who got more than them.
• 1:41:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so inclined to be incredibly negative on a character who might have been just like a fun little fantasy, maybe when I was younger.
• 1:41:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But at least now I have a reason to think about this character.
• 1:41:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the character that I never would have thought about beforehand, but definitely the relevance to modern day topics has me thinking a lot about him.
• 1:41:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wilbur, I haven't really changed my opinion of Wilbur who's just like one of my favorite fun little villains.
• 1:41:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking myself that I probably should have been harsher to him.
• 1:41:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Try it out, but I also, I just can't help loving this guy and it was a blast getting to reread some of my favorite appearances and talk with you all about him.
• 1:41:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can find me the listeners.
• 1:41:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can find me online at HowdyDuda.
• 1:41:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's H-O-W-D-Y-D-U-D-A.
• 1:41:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can look, you can search my name in the registers of various X-Men and Marvel-related podcasts or Deep Space Nine podcasts.
• 1:41:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you would like to find more work that I've done, you can search for me
• 1:41:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm so thrilled I got to be here for this.
• 1:41:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: This was so much fun.
• 1:41:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: When you first mentioned that you were doing a trial for a still man in rampage, I knew it was good.
• 1:42:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: I knew it was gonna be great.
• 1:42:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't really changed my opinion on them.
• 1:42:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love rampage and the champion's books, not so much and is later and is later stuff and still man, I just have, I just have so much fun with still man every time.
• 1:42:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I was gonna mention that if no one else said I was gonna mention that Daredevil run that takes place after this too.
• 1:42:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: he finally gets the kind of redemption he seemed to be looking for for some years and gets to fight a dragon.
• 1:42:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's pretty great.
• 1:42:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Mostly can just be found popping up on your podcast occasionally.
• 1:42:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have social medias under either rock throwing, rock throwing butch or Theodate Chase.
• 1:42:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I can't keep track of which one's where.
• 1:42:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't, I'm trying to use, I'm trying to use them all less anyways.
• 1:42:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
• 1:42:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm excited to keep, keep reading comics.
• 1:42:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: So my initial thoughts on rampage.
• 1:42:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't really have an opinion on him before this trial at the beginning I did sympathize with him a little bit, but as his story went on part of me kind of leaned away from that I do think there is room for redemption and there is potential with this character what direction you take him in That's open to interpretation, but I do have a little bit more of an appreciation for this character after the trial
• 1:43:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: As for Stiltman, he's a lot of fun.
• 1:43:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Just no matter what he appears in, he just makes me smile and He's a good time and the fact that he has a not quite multiverse, but like just I guess Immitators you can't you can't you can't replicate perfection So yes, Stiltman, he's somebody I've always enjoyed whenever I come across him and Ram page I'd like to get to know more and I'm glad I got to be familiarized with him a little bit
• 1:43:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I badly want to write like a short story where it's just the princess Python still man's story that we've needed the whole time.
• 1:43:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, God, do I want to write that?
• 1:43:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, just even their marriage, like, that was a gag for me, like, random, but okay.
• 1:44:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I can be found on Instagram, YouTube, Patreon,
• 1:44:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: and sometimes TikTok at j underscore cosmic with the k i am also on blue sky as well however they do not like underscore so that one is just j cosmic without the underscore as for when this episode is coming out um i do have three cons coming up um i do post a lot of cosplay content and end of march will be my second kind of the year so concessions for me starts
• 1:44:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: in March April and ends around Halloween.
• 1:44:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I have three cons coming up, one into March, two in April, the big one being end of April.
• 1:44:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: So check that out.
• 1:44:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have plenty of cosplays lined up.
• 1:44:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: At least planned for end of April.
• 1:44:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Stay tuned for what I'll say I have.
• 1:44:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm glad to be back on the channel.
• 1:44:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
• 1:44:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to see you.
• 1:44:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Trump, thank you.
• 1:44:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: This was a lot of fun.
• 1:44:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't know a lot about either of these characters, but it really kind of touches a nerve to see these two down and out smart men use technology to try to just make money and just kind of funny because I feel like if they use that tech to like do something good, they make that money anyway with each show is crime instead, but it also really hit me while we were talking that
• 1:45:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: their lives are so bad that even when they tried going good, like, Stiltman got killed and Ram Page got thrown through glass.
• 1:45:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So like, yeah, their life just kind of sucks.
• 1:45:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: But definitely like Stiltman more than coming into this, definitely like, Ram Page a little less.
• 1:45:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: with the whole jigsaw stuff that happened, really did not like that.
• 1:45:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you could find me on Shani Havik.
• 1:45:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can also find me on solving for x.exbin.tas or even just go to solvingforexbin.com.
• 1:45:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: For anything with our merch, we wrote two x-traumas working on a third one.
• 1:45:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also just started Wolverine in the X-Men with the biggest Wolverine stand that I know, Dean Demonic, who also lives in
• 1:45:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: living with ice and watching Wolverine in the X-Men, which came out like 20 years ago in the similarities, so thank you for having me, this was fine.
• 1:46:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Derek, very quickly as we're wrapping up, Fuck Mary Kill whirlwind Stiltman rampage.
• 1:46:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, fuck whirlwind, Mary Stiltman, Kill rampage.
• 1:46:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sean, very quick, Fuck Mary Kill, Baron Zemo, Jigface ramp, Jigsaw rampage, or the other Jigsaw.
• 1:46:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God, you mean, Fudge, Jigsaw's okay.
• 1:46:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just kidding, no.
• 1:46:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just gonna fuck a jig face.
• 1:46:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna kill jigsaw.
• 1:46:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Who is last in Veren Zima?
• 1:46:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna marry Veren Zima.
• 1:46:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, hey, I could be my own mother someday, you know, knowing how he goes.
• 1:46:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you everybody for your support.
• 1:46:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Interacting with peers and groups like this and preparing content like this is like a saving grace for me at this world.
• 1:46:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like time with friends in my community recording this episode on this Sunday is just a lifeblood.
• 1:46:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: back from spending three weeks in New Zealand where everybody was happy and like things felt calm and joyful and loving and nice and none of the newspapers had Trump's name anywhere and like everyone was just like if you're a good person whether it's a small town or a big town like we're just happy you're here.
• 1:47:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: truly just wildly re-entering with like a reset and then like I'm recording this basically like the next day.
• 1:47:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm so joyfully grateful for the community that is fostered here.
• 1:47:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you to all of you that are present.
• 1:47:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: It means a lot.
• 1:47:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you all back here next week where we get to jump back into the Avengers in the old West and we're gonna go gay cowboys next month.
• 1:47:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: See you back here.
• 1:47:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Next time everybody on Grey Malkin Lane.
• 1:47:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: and now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest tonight talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
• 1:47:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Within the Nazi extermination camps, the Sondor Commando were special work units composed almost entirely of Jewish prisoners who were forced to assist in the operation of the killing process.
• 1:47:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, this is a really sobering beginning, but it's a big part of Magneto's story.
• 1:47:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: At Auschwitz Birkenau and several other camps, they were compelled to guide victims from the gas chambers, remove bodies after the killings, cut hair, extract gold teeth, and transport corpses to crematoria or burning pits.
• 1:48:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you've read the Magneto Testament origin series, it features his time in the sound of Commando pretty prominently.
• 1:48:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: The SS selected these prisoners precisely because the work was so horrific and secretive.
• 1:48:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: To prevent witnesses from surviving too long,
• 1:48:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sonder Commando units were regularly executed and replaced with new prisoners every few months.
• 1:48:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Members of these units lived under constant surveillance and with the knowledge that their own deaths were inevitable.
• 1:48:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: By 1944, the Sonder Commando at Auschwitzburg now had begun organizing a revolt, aware that their unit would soon be killed in replace.
• 1:48:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're gonna die, what do you have to lose?
• 1:48:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: A crucial part of the plan relied on smuggling network inside the camp.
• 1:48:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: female prisoners assigned to a nearby munitions factory, secretly passed small amounts of gunpowder out of the facility over many months.
• 1:48:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Women including Rosa Robata, Alagurchner, Estuzia Washblum, Regina Saffar's Dishin, helped transfer the material to members of the Sonder Commando who hit it and prepared improvised explosives while waiting for the moment to act.
• 1:49:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: On October 7, 1944, the prisoners launched their uprising.
• 1:49:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Using this smuggled gunpowder, they detonated explosives that crematorium force, severely damaging the structure and setting parts of it on fire.
• 1:49:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: During the chaos, members of the Sunder-Commando attacked SS guards with hammers, stones, and makeshift weapons.
• 1:49:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Several guards were killed, and some prisoners attempted to break through the camp perimeter and escape toward the nearby forests.
• 1:49:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And again, you see this reference in Magnet of Testament for those that may have read it.
• 1:49:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: The revolt was suppressed with an hours by heavily armed SS units, roughly 450 Sunder-Commando prisoners were killed during the fighting or executed afterward.
• 1:49:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: The four women who had helped supply the gunpowder were later arrested, tortured, and publicly hanged in January 1945.
• 1:49:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Although the uprising did not lead to a mass escape, it destroyed one of the crematorium and remains one of the most significant acts of organized resistance inside the Nazi extermination camp system.
• 1:49:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's impact on morale, and hope in other prisoners can never quite be estimated.
• 1:50:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Jumping to Magneto, volume 3, numbers 9 through 12, this is the series by Colin Bun from just a few years back.
• 1:50:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: The red skull in the axis event with the brain of Charles Xavier, leading toward the red onslaught, has built a concentration camp in genosa and he keeps the populist there under control with telepathic threats of what will happen to them if they rebel.
• 1:50:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the S-S-Men are there to enforce his law.
• 1:50:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Magneto attacks Redskull is amused and delighted.
• 1:50:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Magneto is strong up in the Redskull approaches.
• 1:50:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello Magnus, how busy sweet to see you like this so weak, so powerless and without your hand, it's so vulnerable to mental intrusions.
• 1:50:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's this I hear about an attempt to assassinate, hmm, troubling my friend, also troubling you must have realized, to kill me would also mean killing the last remnants of Charles Xavier, is that why you failed so completely to the kinship for the grey matter fused to my brain to my own brain stay your hand?
• 1:50:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel your loneliness magnet, that's why I dredged through that brain of yours and conjured up in all the acquaintance to keep you company.
• 1:50:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Megidu has been tortured for several issues by one of the old cancer concentration camp guards from when he was a kid, air, air hits him.
• 1:51:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've peered inside your mind, that could return your powers to the former glory, as easily as flipping a light switch, would you think me so viral then?
• 1:51:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I leave you in the care of MZ, that's the turtle man, and your old colleague hits him, I give it less than 15 minutes before you break, perhaps I'll return to save her that delicate little tickle of pith.
• 1:51:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: from Xavier's brain as you mule from Mercy, and then Maggie who is tortured by unending visions of his greatest failures.
• 1:51:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then we get the inversion, which in altered the heroes and the villain's statuses of many characters, and the red skull becomes the red onslaught because Magneto kills him, and it releases like the rage baby that Xavier and Magneto once had, but now it's the red skull infused worse through some ever.
• 1:51:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a giant towering psychic evil monster with new red-faced Sentinel serving him and in response Magneto forms a group of the pervillants to fight back and they all end up inverted.
• 1:51:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is the era where like carnage and hobgoblin in the enchantress and others end up becoming members of the Avengers because of the inversion spell.
• 1:52:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: As the giant red onslaught tries to take over the minds of all those present, the heroes triumph against it and the Scarlet Witch working with Dr. Doom and the inverted red skull who is the white skull, providing the necessary fuel to reverse everything.
• 1:52:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was a lot of continuity.
• 1:52:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me welcome my friend Andrew.
• 1:52:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: We live back to the show to talk to me about this crazy story.
• 1:52:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Andrew, hello, are you a red skull fan, my friend?
• 1:52:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know.
• 1:52:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, who is?
• 1:52:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: A red skull fan.
• 1:52:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a fan of your cabaret MC version of the red skull.
• 1:52:33
  [SPEAKER_07]: I, uh, that was my watch.
• 1:52:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:52:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:52:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, that was the like, um, I'm giving you my arms and arms.
• 1:52:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've also been told that's the three little pigs from Shrek.
• 1:52:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, that's true, that's true, but yeah, no, I am a magneto fan, so therefore I despise the red skull.
• 1:52:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, as a fictional character, he's a very effective villain, but also he's just too close to the surface right now, you know?
• 1:52:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, there's a reason he doesn't come back in the MCU, really.
• 1:53:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he does come back, but he comes back as like a ghost on an alien planet.
• 1:53:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's ridiculous.
• 1:53:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think I would want to write a Red Skull story unless he's just maybe you can act right, but there's yeah, effective ways.
• 1:53:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have been talking on the show in these conversations with days of future past is basically the threat of fascism against mutants, right?
• 1:53:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when you attach that to like a character like William striker, we're Donald Pierce, it's kind of fun and can't be, but when you put it with the Red Skull, it's just like, oh, so this is that story.
• 1:53:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is Red Skull with Xavier's brain, doing days of future past on genosho, which makes it easier for
• 1:53:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've been rough with it, and you're a series by Colin Munn before.
• 1:53:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had read the first arc of it.
• 1:53:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've peeled off at some point.
• 1:53:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Around access is where I actually stopped reading a lot of super aerocomics.
• 1:53:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't even remember if I finished reading the main thread of that story.
• 1:53:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I enjoy Gabriele Walter's art tremendously.
• 1:53:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Colin's a great writer.
• 1:53:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I was more than happy to dive back in and see how this story progressed.
• 1:54:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: So tell me some of your thoughts on Magneto 9 through 12.
• 1:54:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's well written, very mental focused, but it's hard to write Magneto without taking us back to his very tragic backstory.
• 1:54:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was wondering about that because yeah, if you're doing a Magneto mini series.
• 1:54:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I guess this was an ongoing time.
• 1:54:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like what do you focus on what do you what you confront and yeah, you kind of you can't ignore You know, it's the crux of who he is is being this survivor of the camp and being determined never to see that happen again You know, it's a great complex character origin.
• 1:54:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It makes him one of the most interesting villains around
• 1:54:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And but at the same time, there's always something slightly, you know, it's hard not to make it feel a little trivialized when you're comparing a real horror that happened with then a fake one that has like a turtle guy and a genie guy and, you know, it's a little bit uncomfortable.
• 1:54:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the whole of axis, the very idea of these sort of binary polls of good and evil, I don't never, that never stuck for me, that never made sense for me.
• 1:55:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to have that butt right up against death camps in World War II is like, it sort of makes an excuse of evil in a way to say, well, some people are evil.
• 1:55:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, some people allow themselves to do evil things.
• 1:55:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's different.
• 1:55:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yes, and some people, you know, there's that old adage if you've got two dogs inside, which one wins the one that you feel.
• 1:55:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 1:55:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you know that that analogy, some people become the worst versions of themselves when given the right kind of power.
• 1:55:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Colin Runwriting Magneto is very smart.
• 1:55:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: He writes Magneto as a very lonely man, taking stock of this man's history is always interesting, but there's multiple issues of him really horribly torturing and killing people in the name of
• 1:55:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: up against.
• 1:55:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Were you a fan of onslaught?
• 1:55:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I always thought that was a sort of garrish misstep.
• 1:55:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It never fully, I never fully understood how it existed, you know, this sort of gushed-o-t baby, as you say.
• 1:56:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: The evil of Xavier combined with the rage of Magneto, giving birth yeah, psychic entity.
• 1:56:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then here we have that in the red onslaught, which is woof.
• 1:56:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: there's some like stories around onslaught but and also himself is so abstracted from anything real that yeah I have trouble with him as well.
• 1:56:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So did you have moments from this Magneto arc that stood out to you?
• 1:56:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the flashback sequence is all the sort of the reliving your past sequences I thought were very effective you know we do have he's a tragic anti-hero and so that's a
• 1:56:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I always like to see the sort of the hints of compassion that you get with Magnita when he's talking to the young woman with the illusion powers, like moments like that, I think are quite effective.
• 1:56:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you one of those readers who can read queerness into the Eric and Charles relationship, Magnito and Xavier?
• 1:56:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks.
• 1:57:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you talk to me?
• 1:57:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because you're recognized the last remnants of your lover's brain, like the
• 1:57:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think at this point we are sort of through the looking glass on that, like people right with the awareness of that coding existing and so you can't deny it really, like Colin Bunn knows exactly what we're going to breathe into these stories.
• 1:57:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So while I don't think it was necessarily always there, I think it's there now for sure.
• 1:57:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, reading the whole, the scene where they're talking to Gabrielle Hallow and it's like, oh Gabrielle, you don't know what you're getting involved with it.
• 1:57:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's something so deeply, I don't know, there's it's so deeply woven into pop culture where you have like those two men who are just like the truest friends and we'll do anything for each other, but yeah, no homo, right, like, and so they give very that last.
• 1:57:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Reed Richards and Dr. Doom seemed to have that like there's this we're obsessed with each other and we can never let each other go Wolverine and saber to have it, but you know across movies and books, it's it's always fascinating to be I don't know.
• 1:58:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I opened with the thoughts on the idea of the Sonder Commando, which is a really interesting thing that the rebellion specifically rather than focusing on the atrocities we want to listen to messages of hope and in 2026 things are feeling crazy here in the states and you're hearing a lot.
• 1:58:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: who kind of bend almost toward Anarchy and Rebellion and fighting the power and, you know, phrases like, you know, wins it okay to punch an odds a year, like our pop and around.
• 1:58:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's crazy.
• 1:58:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: When you see people who are living in abject horror, choosing to fight back, even though it didn't end well, there's something so inspiring about their willingness to fight.
• 1:58:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Which is the X-Men story in its own way as well, like the days of future past is very that it's the the mutants who are choosing to to fight back in these these very rough ways with one giant Hail Mary, but in this case, it's you know, let's send Kate Pred to the past.
• 1:58:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did you have thoughts on those parallels?
• 1:58:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we are seeing now the we're living in an age where you have to think about what your capable of and what is justified and it's a very heavy conversation, but you put it very very well up front.
• 1:59:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you know you're going to die anyway, better to die doing something, you know, dying service to an idea rather than.
• 1:59:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let the villain take you out, so to speak.
• 1:59:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: There was a lot of controversy earlier on in the wars as well.
• 1:59:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the Jews who were fighting back, those who were submitting and getting on the trains, you know, like that's a message as well for all.
• 1:59:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it did think back to, you know, it's very fortunate to work with the great Czech Republic community who passed very recently as we record this, who illustrated my story for the old god, anthology tells through time.
• 1:59:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was a story about,
• 1:59:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You've said just before the Second World War, the rise of narcissism and a little and big act of rebellion, where two men dancing is an act of rebellion.
• 1:59:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: In a public space, Jacobo was an incredible collaborator to work with, really, captured the emotion beautifully.
• 1:59:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did a lot of research around that era, both for that story.
• 2:00:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And generally, I've sort of always been fascinated by rebellion and the ways in which people fought back against fascism, big and small.
• 2:00:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the movie bent is another great example of that where these queer prisoners in a way to play originally, queer prisoners in a concentration camp who enact making love to each other just through their words.
• 2:00:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: as an act of rebellion.
• 2:00:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it can be for you to say if you're on soul, an act of rebellion can be important.
• 2:00:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Dying that way is better than living without it.
• 2:00:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It seems to be the message.
• 2:00:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you are a brick living in Canada.
• 2:00:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: How is 2026 going for you?
• 2:00:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a crazy time of the world.
• 2:00:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Watching the house next door burn to the ground and saying, oh, oh, yeah, yes.
• 2:00:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could be the the gleeful little girl in the meme just you know turning the camera and not healing but no there is no joy to be had from from watching what's going on and also it's not just America but I mean I think the US is the architect of well no Russia is the architect and the US is the willing henchmen we're certain we're certainly complicit if not responsible absolutely
• 2:01:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a terrifying time and being in Canada doesn't feel safe, you know, if you're safer, but not safe, we are, I think, lucky to have even though, you know, all the most successful politicians are centrist right down the line, they are still at least resilient and resistant to, to the far right and the voters given that choice at the last election did choose to turn away from the Conservatives and it looks like based on that Connie's kind of approval waiting.
• 2:01:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's not going to be any disruption there.
• 2:01:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: anytime soon so i am grateful for uh i'm not caught even though he is a bit milk toast and uh definitely too much to the center for my personal politics.
• 2:01:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: yeah now uh you first came on my show when we released the episode on the power pack he derbs and even if yeah even in that if you recall the clarineto is like trying to play Nazi tunes and the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the
• 2:02:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: that elephants had to stop, it's been fascinating for me doing deep academic research into all of this and realizing how much World War II and the threat of Nazis in place in my comics that I've been reading my entire life.
• 2:02:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 2:02:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: In direct ways, like in this story in Maggito, and then very indirect ways, like with Clareneto.
• 2:02:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which is a magnetite of analog and also an Nazi.
• 2:02:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 2:02:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I will be there in it, baffles me now.
• 2:02:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well it's a joy to have you on the show even for the silly and the serious conversations.
• 2:02:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm great to be here today.
• 2:02:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody make sure you take care yourselves out there.
• 2:02:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Living joyfully is an active defense in this crazy world.
• 2:02:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a safe and we're recording this in mid-March who knows what has happened in the next month but I hope we are all safe.
• 2:02:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you for joining me today Andrew.
• 2:02:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks everyone for watching.
• 2:02:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you back here next time on.
• 2:02:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I'm going to say.
• 2:02:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 2:02:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 2:02:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah, with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 2:03:05
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• 2:03:11
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• 2:03:17
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• 2:03:19
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• 2:03:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.