Latest / Jennifer Rothschild Show / #9: Why the Trinity Matters to Your Relationships with Liz Daye

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#9: Why the Trinity Matters to Your Relationships with Liz Daye · Jennifer Rothschild Show

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I wanted to make sure that I could ground myself in something
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that was true about God.
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So when I'm in the hospital and I'm either with a patient or I'm with one of my
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children or whatever the case is, I'm asking, what is God like here?
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Because I need to ask that so that I can know what's true.
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And so that in that moment, I can have comfort that is rooted in truth,
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that is rooted in something real.
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And that's what it looks like to promote that kind of discipleship, because that
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shouldn't be an individual thing, right?
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We should be doing that in community with each other.
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When we're going through hard stuff, we need to remind one another
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the truth about the triune God.
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Welcome to the Jennifer Rothschild Show.
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This is where thoughtful people come to grow.
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I'm so glad you are here today because we're talking about
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something so good today.
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Now, here's what it is, okay?
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In a culture shaped by individualism, chaplain and theologian, our guest today,
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Liz is going to invite us back to the relational heart of God.
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Don't we need that? And here's how she's gonna do it.
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She's gonna unpack the mystery of the Trinity to help us rediscover the beauty
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of belonging to God's family.
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Oh, listen, if you've got some theological
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questions on the Trinity, I just want you to know we've got
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some really good answers today.
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So let's grow.
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Well, hey friends, I'm glad you are back again for another amazing week here
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at the Jennifer Rothschild Show.
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And some of you have been leaving reviews and man, can I just tell you
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how much I appreciate that?
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You guys are just the kindest, most wonderful people.
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So thank you for doing that.
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We're talking today with Liz Day, first time I ever talked to her.
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And I want to tell you something interesting that you're going to hear.
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Liz is autistic and she kind of explains that, and I'm just going to I just wanna
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give you that heads up because it was super helpful to me.
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And I thought it was really special just to break down some of the mystique.
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So if that's a thing for you, you're gonna appreciate that today.
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And you know, I realized too, the last couple of weeks we've touched
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on the importance of relationships.
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So I'm gonna tell you that something happened to me because of relationship.
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All right, ready?
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Mushroom coffee.
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Yes.
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I have a couple of friends who are like, oh my gosh, you will love mushroom coffee.
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And it's so good for your brain.
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Now you may already know I am a coffee girl.
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In fact, I have a steaming cup of Verona that I made with my espresso machine.
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So even though it's coffee, it's got like this foamy crema on the top.
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Mm.
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My, my whole podcast studio smells like it.
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It makes me very happy.
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So I thought, my friends know how much I love coffee.
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So if they think I'm gonna love this mushroom coffee,
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of course I'm gonna love it. And you may love mushroom coffee.
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Like it is the thing.
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It's made with all these mushrooms. I opened the bag.
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It smelled like coffee.
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I thought, this is fantastic.
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And then I brewed it.
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Okay, can I just say, friends don't let friends drink mushroom coffee.
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I know, I know, you may be out there going,
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but you haven't tried such and such.
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And you're right, I probably haven't.
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It might just be the brand that I tried, which I will not name.
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But I just realized I've got 2 bags of mushroom coffee here and my
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brain needs the mushrooms. So here's what I'm doing.
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I'm trying to put a little scoop of mushroom coffee in my good
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coffee so that it doesn't ruin my good coffee, but that my brain
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gets a little mushrooms. Okay.
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That's what I'm doing.
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So as your friend, if you don't love mushroom coffee,
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that's the advice I'm giving you. And so far it's working.
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I can't even taste it in my Verona.
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It hasn't ruined it. Okay.
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You know what that has to do with anything?
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Nothing. All right.
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Let's just go to Liz because she's got a lot better going on, but here's the thing.
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She's going to tell you something about the Trinity that helps us understand our
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belonging to God and our relationship with the family that could be just
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startling for you and so inspiring.
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I can't wait for you to hear it.
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So I'm going to introduce you to my new friend, Liz.
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She's a hospital chaplain and she's a teacher and she's a theologian.
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She's an author.
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And here's what she does, which is interesting.
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She integrates academic theology and biblical scholarship with
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research-based clinical interventions. Okay?
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She graduated way high from Dallas Theological Seminary
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with a degree, a master's degree in chaplaincy and ministry care.
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And she keeps serving there, right in that seminary in the
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theological studies department. Okay.
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The woman is pretty amazing.
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She's married, she's got some kids, and she's got great insight.
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So just settle in, enjoy your coffee as you listen to me and Liz Daye.
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[INTERVIEW BEGINS] All right, Liz, first off, I'm gonna share, uh,
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with our listeners what I read about you. Okay?
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This is part of your official bio.
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It says Liz Daye is an autistic hospital chaplain, teacher,
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and theologian with a passion for accessible theology and
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relationship-based discipleship. Okay.
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Now we could talk for 30 minutes just about the attributes that are in that bio.
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Okay?
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But if it's okay with you, I really want to know, are you autistic?
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And what exactly does that mean?
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Yeah, so I was diagnosed as an adult.
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And I am excited because I feel like growing up, I struggled to find language
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to explain what was going on in my brain and in my body.
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So I think even just having— knowing that this book in particular,
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this book that's really about belonging and finding new vocabulary for our faith,
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that it's coming from this perspective of somebody who's been looking for
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language for a really long time.
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And I hope that these different parts of my life and these different experiences
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that I've had can contribute meaningfully to this work.
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Well, I know it has to because it just, it deepens the message.
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And it also really gives you a platform for credibility.
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Because I think autism, that's why it was my first question.
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It is so misunderstood.
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And maybe it's because it's so nuanced that it shows up differently
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with each person.
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Yeah, I think, and everybody has a different relationship with their body.
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All of us experience the spectrum in very different ways.
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We have different support needs.
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And those are always going to look different.
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So knowing, first of all, being able to name what you
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need, and then know what you need and recognize it in that moment,
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that takes time to kind of figure out.
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And there's some trial and error involved, especially if you have limited
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support or less resources.
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There's, there's a whole lot there.
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But yeah, I'm excited to maybe surprise people with maybe a different
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way of experiencing my body and my brain.
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Yeah, I love that.
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And you're basing so much of it on something that, that I didn't expect.
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Okay, so let me put it this way.
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So like, when I read your bio, you make theology accessible,
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which I so highly regard and appreciate.
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And so I'm going to ask you a question.
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been about something that is usually not accessible, the Trinity.
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Okay, because you base a lot of what you're teaching in this book
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on the relationship of the Trinity.
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Okay, so first of all, explain to us what the Trinity
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is for someone who may not know.
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I mean, as much as we humans can.
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And then tell us what we can learn from the Trinity about relationships.
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Yeah, so I think one of the core Christian convictions that most of us share,
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you know, we fight about lots of things, but one of the things that
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we share is that God is one.
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And God is 3 persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit, right?
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We have these 2 things in tension.
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God is one, God is 3.
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But this really important part of our faith is that God is alive.
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And so I think when we're looking for language to talk about the Trinity,
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usually we get like a triangle-shaped graphic with like the Father on the top,
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and sometimes you have some like different directions pointing in different ways.
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But a lot of those graphics and a lot of those things that we, you know, rely on
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to communicate our faith, a lot of them— Hmm.
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are missing the language that God is moving and God is alive and God is at work
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in the world and in our relationships.
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So one of the reasons that I wanted to write about the Trinity and kind of bring
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some of this really academic, like gross Latin, Greek, you know, these,
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these terms that are just really inaccessible for most of us,
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and I wanted to translate them to a way that actually this doctrine is
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really important to our faith.
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It is important that we know how to communicate --
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Hmm. -- that God is alive.
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We're resurrection people, and what that looks like in our
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relationships with one another, what that looks like as the church.
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So, that's kind of the framing for my approach,
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and what I hope readers take away as, you know, this scary doctrine maybe
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becomes a little bit less scary, right?
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Right, because it shouldn't be.
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This is the foundation of our faith.
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So, let me just ask you something unexpected that I'm going to mispronounce.
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Okay, Perichoresis? Yes.
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Okay, so that's— yeah.
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Talk about that, because I think when you said movement, that helped me.
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So talk about that, please.
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Fix my word and then explain it.
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No, your word is perfect.
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So perichoresis, this is that term where we get the vocabulary for movement.
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So in, you know, with the early church fathers,
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they're looking for language to describe God.
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We have all these different councils that are, you know,
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Dudes are writing letters back and forth, trying to find the best
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ways to articulate.
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And this was one of those words that came up during that period of time
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to really give language to the fact that God is moving, God is alive, God is
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moving around, inseparable, interdependent, constantly in motion.
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That's really where we get a lot of this accessible language,
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especially when we start talking about like a Shalom-shaped communion.
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All of this language—Yeah.
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comes directly from this really scary, really weird-sounding
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thing that actually isn't that scary when we start taking a look at it.
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So, Liz, just because you are a theologian, I want us to dive
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even just a little bit deeper.
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Yeah.
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Okay, so is, in your understanding of the Trinity,
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we have God the Father, Jesus the Son, Holy Spirit.
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Is there a hierarchy?
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Because God is one, so there is equality, yet is there a hierarchy?
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So based on historic Christian teaching, there is no hierarchy in
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the Godhead, right?
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There is no— there's no, you know, ranking of importance.
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There is no, you know, one was first, second, third.
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None of that is language that is appropriate for when we're talking
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about Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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Over and over, the testimony of Scripture, when we really look at the whole
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story of it, we see this God that is power-sharing and overflowing with love.
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Hmm.
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And it's, God is much less concerned with power and
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authority and hierarchy and much more concerned with sharing love and sharing
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goodness with the world and promoting shalom.
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So I think that, yeah, even just reimagining some of the ways
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that we think about power and hierarchy, what might it look like and how might our
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faith be affected if we started reimagining that a little bit,
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maybe reevaluating where we've internalized some of those assumptions.
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Hmm. Specifically about God the Father.
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Yeah, yeah, I agree with that, Liz, too.
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And when you think about it, because the Trinity really— they're all
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out loving each other, out serving each other.
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I mean, that's really what they're doing.
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And so if you're looking at that as the template for how we relate to each other
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in what you called a shalom-shaped community, okay, break that down for me.
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What in your definition is a shalom-shaped community?
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Right, so when we're looking at the very beginning at the Hebrew Bible,
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starting in Genesis 1 and 2, when everything that God made was
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perfect and wonderful and beautiful.
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That is the best picture of shalom that we have in the Bible, right?
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It's in picture form where all of creation is living in right relationship.
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Everybody's doing what they're supposed to do.
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The trees are cooperating.
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Like, everything in nature is rightly related.
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When sin comes in and destroys that and fractures that and breaks that Then now
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our new mission, you know, as resurrection people is to be people of
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shalom because the way that it started, that's our, that's our
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destiny in Revelation.
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When it's all said and done, God is going to bring us back
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to this shalom-shaped communion.
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And so I think promoting that and living that out, like practicing now how we're
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going to be living for eternity, is again where we get just
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a consistent vocabulary for a way to be with one another in the world.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I'm loving this.
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Okay, so let's take that from the pages of the Bible to our church pews.
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Okay, so what does this look like, like this shared siblinghood?
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What, what would it look like in everyday church life?
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I think, you know, for us, we've experienced this.
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And I, you know, in other conversations we've
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talked about, you know, does your church structure need to change,
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or does the way that you have your programs, you know, organized,
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does that need to change?
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You can live this way regardless of how your church is structured, right?
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And I think part of it is just— is paying attention to suffering.
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That's a really big part of the work that I do as a chaplain.
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But it's also something that my church is just very good at,
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making space to pay attention and slow down enough to say, okay,
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I see that something's happening here.
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How can I enter in and be with this person?
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And that creates space for a lot of really interesting things to happen,
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but it creates space for the Holy Spirit to, to be a part of that moment.
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So I think that we're looking at how do we live this way and how do we enact it?
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It's not a checklist of things that we need to do.
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It's really just an approach of how can I make sure that I am,
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I'm really experiencing the people that I'm with, that I'm slowing
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down enough to pay attention.
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And yeah, I think, I don't know about you, but we, I tend, I have 4 kids.
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We live busy lives.
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You know, we're always, you know, bopping around all over the
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place and slowing down can be very challenging.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And a little unsettling because it's easier.
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Yeah.
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It's easier just to speed through, you know, as you're describing it,
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I'm thinking it's like the difference between Liz, a formula and family.
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You know, we come in with our church life, our life in Christ.
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Here's the formula.
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I do my devotionals, I do this, I go serve the poor, I come home, I read my Bible.
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Yeah.
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That's so different than just, I'm part of the family.
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Yeah.
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And I'm gonna be a sister today, and I'm gonna be available to love and to
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serve and to do nothing if I need to do nothing.
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And it's so different.
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But it— I can see how, let's be honest, there's a little insecurity there because
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it's easier to have a formula and be in the fast lane.
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Yep. Whew, okay, this is really good.
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Yeah.
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All right, so you're talking a lot about discipleship, obviously,
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though that's just a word, you know, that I try to
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not avoid, but I try not to overuse it because I think it sounds formulaic again.
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And you're really talking about relationships that spur us on to shalom
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and deeper life in Christ.
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So I'm curious how your work, because it's so interesting what you've
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done as a hospital chaplain, you've seen a lot,
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you've dealt with a lot of trauma care, I'm curious how that's changed your
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understanding of what I just called discipleship.
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Yeah, I think, you know, even just based on
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my own family's experience shuttling kids back and forth to the
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children's hospital and things like that, I came to experience this dissonance where
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I couldn't check the boxes the way that I really want.
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I wanted to be a good faithful Christian, right?
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I wanted to check the boxes and be a reliable volunteer
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and show up when I was supposed to show up and, you know, contribute what
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I was supposed to contribute.
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And especially when we were in this several-year season of just being back and
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forth in the hospital, I couldn't do that.
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And I realized that in part I couldn't do it because we're not supposed to
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approach our faith that way.
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So in that season, I learned how to receive as a sister,
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and that was really meaningful to me.
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But it also helped me make space to say, you know what, even if I'm not productive,
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I'm still a part of this family.
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And even if I, you know, need to say, I'm a person, I need space right now.
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I need to rest. My soul needs rest.
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You know, my family's going to want that for me because they love me.
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And so I think even just remembering that the family of God is special,
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and it's supposed to be something that promotes safety and promotes healing
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and wholeness for all of us, especially those of us
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that are suffering or that are going through a hard diagnosis or a trauma or an
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accident or something beyond our control.
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Those, those boxes, you'll find they limit us very quickly and they
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marginalize people very quickly.
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And because when you're in the hospital, you can't even think straight
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enough to check a box. Right.
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Yeah.
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So I think even especially in those weeks where I just,
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I wasn't sleeping, I was caregiving, I was very tired.
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I wanted to make sure that I could ground myself in something
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that was true about God.
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So when I'm in the hospital and I'm either with a patient or I'm with one of my
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children or whatever the case is, I'm asking, what is God like here?
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Because I need to ask that so that I can know what's true.
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And so that in that moment, I can have comfort that is rooted in truth,
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that is rooted in something real.
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And that's what it looks like to promote that kind of discipleship, because that
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shouldn't be an individual thing, right?
18:29
We should be doing that in community with each other.
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When we're going through hard stuff, we need to remind one another the truth
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about the Triune God, that God is with us, that the incarnation is a big
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deal because God is with us.
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So yeah, I mean, I think that that just gives us space to practice
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compassion and to really live out this faith.
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I think practicing compassion is a much better word than,
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or a much better phrase than discipleship. Yeah.
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Right.
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Because it encompasses all of the different things that we can do.
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Right? Right.
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And even just the way that we can just exist without doing anything!
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Right, right. Yeah.
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Just being and being together.
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And you know, I love that you kind of reframed the situation where,
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what is God like right now?
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Because often we think of, okay, what is my situation like right now?
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Or how do I feel right now?
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And you're saying in the midst of these difficult situations, you're looking,
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okay, what is God like right now?
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Who is He right now?
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Because that is the grounding reality.
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That's really beautiful.
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And so you mentioned And Liz, compassion.
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And so let's go another place that could be somewhat controversial, okay?
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Because some Christians, I think because of a misunderstanding or
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because of the political charge of certain phrases, they get all freaked out when
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they hear the words social justice, okay?
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Yeah.
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All right, so let's talk about that.
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What role should justice socially and compassion play in our everyday
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family life as the family of God?
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Yeah, I think when I look at Scripture, again, I'm always going
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to turn to Scripture.
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That's my primary lens through which I want to view the world
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and encounter God, right?
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So when I'm thinking about Scripture, and when I'm thinking about the concept of
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justice specifically, you know, justice and righteousness
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aren't something that the Bible separates.
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They're two sides of the same coin.
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So really, it's the way that we're living as righteous believers,
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That is going to translate to just living and living justly in right relationship.
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And I think when we let those 2 kind of sets of vocabulary talk to each other,
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like the language of righteousness and holiness and the language of justice,
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we realize that we have to do these things in community.
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And we can't— we— the Christian faith, the testimony of Scripture doesn't let us
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live faith alone, isolated by ourselves.
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And so much of the teaching of Scripture is now that we are resurrection people
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representing a God that is alive in the world, what does that look like?
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How do we shine brightly?
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We do that through our relationships.
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So think about the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
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Every single one of those things, they're not, again, they're not
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things that you check off on a box. Yeah.
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They are, they're, they describe the way that relationships should be lived.
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There should be goodness.
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In relationships, if you go down that list, it shouldn't feel like a list.
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It should just feel like, oh yeah, this is what I want to promote
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in these different ways of you know being a parent, being a friend,
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being a minister, being a neighbor, being a person.
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And then I think that we can, forgetting all the hot button buzzwords
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and all of the politically charged language,
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I think that just scripture and just looking at it through that lens gives us
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enough of a framework to remember that we have a responsibility
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to our communities and to the people that are around us,
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especially to the vulnerable.
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And we need to take our Christian responsibility seriously
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to live as compassionate people, to represent a compassionate God in
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the world, and to promote goodness.
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I think that that's really important.
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And again, there's not room in the New Testament,
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there's not room in scripture to live a private faith by yourself,
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disconnected from everybody else.
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We don't get that luxury. Yeah.
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So yeah, I hope that we can invite one another into relationship, into communion,
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into community with God, not just as our template, but God
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is inviting us into the life of God. It's—
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yeah.
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Yeah.
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Liz, this is a good conversation for us all to
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have together because I think sometimes we, I mean, we,
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we are, our hearts are so confused sometimes and we become so self-centered.
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My faith, my Jesus, my personal Savior, my this, my that.
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And we're in the family and, and The nature of Christianity and
23:03
being Christlike is deeply relational.
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And so what a good reminder.
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Yeah, we don't have the fruits of the Spirit so we can feed ourselves.
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So that's a beautiful thing.
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And so as we're talking about this community, you write about
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cultivating communities of inclusion, reciprocity, and mutual care.
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Okay.
23:25
Those are 3 very interesting words that I want us to kind of hit: inclusion,
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reciprocity, and mutual care.
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Okay, so first of all, how do we do this?
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And if we do, what does it look like?
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It's gonna look a lot of different ways because again, when we talk about
23:40
inclusion, there's not just one way.
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That's the whole point is we want to make space for more than just one experience to
23:47
feel like they belong and that they matter.
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So that means we're going to pay attention to who's around us,
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who's in our community, and we're gonna get uncomfortable really
23:58
fast because You know, if you have, for example, a friend that's going through
24:02
a really tricky divorce, and she's trying to decide,
24:06
is it safe for me to go to church?
24:07
Am I going to belong there?
24:08
Is she really going to belong there?
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Like, do we nod and smile and have our slogans that say you belong here?
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Or are we actually going to say, you know what,
24:17
I recognize that this situation needs something even more specific, right?
24:23
And that specificity is really where we show love for one another.
24:26
Yeah.
24:27
It's really easy to do things generally, but when we get specific,
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when we get personal, when we know names and faces
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and what their hands feel like, that, that makes everything a little bit different.
24:40
Um, so that's the inclusion part is, that's kind of where I would start there.
24:44
What was the next one?
24:46
Reciprocity. Reciprocity.
24:47
Okay.
24:48
This is, this is huge for especially those of us in evangelicalism, right?
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Because We're told a lot of times that it's,
24:57
you know, you're more blessed to give than to receive.
24:59
We have all these messages about being generous, and this is good, right?
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Generosity is a good Christian virtue.
25:06
And also, the gospel is something we receive, and we receive it freely.
25:12
So even just making space to say, yes, I'm going to be a generous person,
25:17
and there are going to be times where I need to receive,
25:21
and I need to be willing to receive.
25:23
And having that mindset of, yes, there's going to be giving, and yes,
25:28
there's going to be receiving.
25:29
Otherwise, if we're only giving, giving, giving, giving, giving,
25:34
it creates subtle hierarchy between people who feel really, really good that they're
25:38
the givers all the time, um, and, and people who can't give as
25:44
much or can't be recognized.
25:45
And that's, that's not how God's family is supposed to work, right?
25:49
We have this Romans 16 picture of God's family, you know, living in reciprocity,
25:55
giving and sharing with the poor, sharing with one another,
25:58
living in vibrant community, communion, living not just on
26:02
Sunday, but every single day.
26:05
So it's just a different kind of picture of living that— I don't know, like,
26:11
I remember there was one time I was volunteering for Vacation Bible School
26:14
several years ago.
26:15
They're doing this big fundraising situation,
26:19
and all of the parents were in the back with their checkbooks because they wanted
26:23
to win the fundraising competition. I love that.
26:26
And I'm just thinking, like, these are 4th and 5th graders.
26:30
This is— this doesn't feel like it matches, right?
26:34
Yeah, right.
26:36
And like little things like that.
26:37
But those are— they're theological choices that we're making, right?
26:41
We need to have vocabulary to say, this is really what God's family is
26:46
supposed to look like and live like and act like.
26:49
And we have to have the language so that we can have healthier communities
26:53
and healthier attitudes.
26:54
Especially towards, I know it is frustrating to say I need something.
26:59
It is humbling and it is, yeah, all the things.
27:03
I mean, it's sad to feel like you have a need that's not going to be met.
27:09
And I think the more that we can be with one another in those unmet needs,
27:15
beautiful things happen there. They really do.
27:17
Well, when you think about it, Liz, that is the mutual care.
27:20
Yeah. -- you're describing.
27:22
And for us to be prideful and say, nope, I'm the giver, I don't have needs.
27:26
Yeah.
27:27
It's truly robbing your sister or brother from their mandate to meet your needs
27:32
and to receive the blessing for helping.
27:34
And it doesn't esteem them.
27:36
So one of the things I, I don't know if you know this about me,
27:38
but my friends that listen do, is that I'm blind.
27:42
And one of the hardest things for me is always asking for help.
27:45
And I remember one time I was talking to Joni Eareckson Tada, Yeah.
27:49
Who's, you know, been in a wheelchair her whole life.
27:51
I was talking to her about my frustration that I always feel like a burden.
27:54
I hate asking people for help.
27:57
And she said she had to make that shift, that she realizes when she asks someone
28:02
like to open a door for her at a restaurant, she's giving them
28:05
an opportunity to feel esteemed.
28:09
And it changed my view of recognizing I still don't love needing,
28:14
you know, I would rather be able to do things myself.
28:15
Yeah. Of course.
28:17
But humility is never a bad thing.
28:20
And oh, what our own personal humility grants someone else can be so life-giving.
28:25
And that's part of being in a family.
28:27
So I think that's kind of what you're describing.
28:28
Yes? No?
28:29
Yeah, absolutely.
28:30
I mean, I think, in a sense, we do get to model that for
28:34
our, our brothers and sisters in the family, right?
28:37
We may feel it and experience it a different way.
28:40
But yeah, and even just recognizing we do all have needs, some of them are more
28:45
physical, and they— we notice them more.
28:49
But yeah, we all have needs and we should all delight in receiving
28:53
care and offering care.
28:54
There's so much goodness there.
28:56
There really is. So much goodness.
28:58
This is such a good conversation, Liz.
29:00
I, I'm so grateful you've written a book.
29:02
I think it's going to be a great book to dive deep into.
29:05
We're going to get to our last question though on this conversation,
29:09
because you know, this is the place where thoughtful people come to grow.
29:13
And boy, have you given us a lot to think about.
29:16
But my last question for you is this.
29:18
Give me something that's really helped you.
29:20
What is something you'd recommend that over the years perhaps
29:23
has helped you grow?
29:25
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things that I
29:28
had to learn, especially as a chaplain, I needed to walk much slower.
29:33
Or as my friend who is in a wheelchair reminds me, I need to move
29:36
through the world much slower.
29:38
Typically, when we get a code at the hospital, I have to
29:41
respond to every situation.
29:43
If I am out of breath and having an asthma attack by the time I get there,
29:47
I'm not going to be an effective minister.
29:49
Right.
29:49
So I have learned that while there is urgency, I am also not
29:54
the one doing CPR, right? Nobody wants that.
29:57
I need to remember that for me to do good work, I have to move slower.
30:02
For me to check in with my body so that I can care for everybody else in the room,
30:07
I need to slow down enough to make space for myself as a person,
30:14
myself as a minister, not because I'm being selfish,
30:16
but because I really want to make sure that I'm doing my best work and caring
30:20
for people in a way that's meaningful.
30:23
If I'm so busy and I'm so distracted, I'm not even in my body,
30:27
I'm not going to represent God well in that situation, right?
30:30
Especially if it's a life and death moment.
30:33
So I think just really— And obviously not every situation is a
30:37
life and death moment, but sometimes they are.
30:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Moving slower makes a big difference.
30:44
It really does. [INTERVIEW ENDS]
30:53
Good stuff, Liz.
30:55
Good stuff.
30:56
Did you hear, my friends, that she said that if you want to grow,
31:00
walk much slower?
31:03
Walk much slower.
31:06
Move through the world a little more slowly.
31:09
And did you hear her say that if you If you can't breathe, you can't minister.
31:13
Yeah.
31:14
If you're running so fast that you're hyperventilating,
31:16
how can you serve others?
31:18
I just love it.
31:19
So her book, by the way, it's a great reminder of who you are in the family.
31:26
So, so let's love each other well, my friends, and let's focus more on
31:30
being family than following formulas.
31:34
All you heard today, you can find, of course, at the show notes
31:37
by reading the transcript.
31:38
Again, it's easy for you to share the podcast from there.
31:42
You can get her book.
31:43
I just want you to get what you need to keep growing and to keep thinking.
31:48
And let us just be who God's called us to be for him and for each other.
31:54
All right. Have a great week.
31:56
I can't wait till you join me again next week at the Jennifer Rothschild Show.