Latest / Unpause Your Life / EP079: What to do if you have a Bully Boss?

Transcript

EP079: What to do if you have a Bully Boss? · Unpause Your Life

• 0:03
  You are listening to unpause your life with doctor Kelly as Says and Master Coach
• 0:10
  Jenny Fontana, founders of the Life Coach method. Each one of our uplifting
• 0:17
  and deep dive episodes is geared to help you tackle the things that hold you
• 0:22
  back from having the most magnificent life you deserved. Sit back, relax,
• 0:28
  and prepare to be coached. Okay, so what does that look like in
• 0:34
  the workplace? Men versus women? Who's more of a bully? What do
• 0:38
  you think? I would say different types of bullying I've learned I've experienced male
• 0:48
  bullying is as a boss is very different than what I've experienced as having a
• 0:54
  female boss. I would agree to that. And I think this stigma around
• 1:00
  being a female boss comes with a lot more derogatory terms than a male.
• 1:06
  Meaning, if a male is screaming in his office at a worker, it's
• 1:08
  kind of like, oh, he's exerting his dominant elf estate. But if
• 1:14
  a woman is screaming at someone in her office, it's like, oh,
• 1:17
  my goodness, she's a Karen, She's a bitch. No one likes her.
• 1:19
  But just said that's accurate. Yeah, I would say so, And
• 1:23
  I think the the two different types of bitch that I would go with as
• 1:30
  far as female bosses, would be. One that's just straight up aggressive,
• 1:34
  you know, basically in your face, this is how things are going to
• 1:38
  go. And I don't really care about what your feelings are if you know
• 1:42
  you're sitting there crying while you're taking notes, As long as you're taking notes,
• 1:46
  I could give you know, you know. The other one is passive
• 1:49
  aggressive, which will be semi rude to you and maybe go. You know,
• 1:53
  maybe it's not such a good idea for you to leave at six You
• 1:59
  should probably stay at least six thirty, you know, kind of thing every
• 2:01
  day, which I find more toxic than the aggressive bully boss because at least
• 2:08
  you know where they stand. The other one, you get aggress. If
• 2:13
  you've seen the office, you've seen the passive aggressive. I'm gonna go ahead
• 2:17
  and ask you to come in on Saturday. I'm gonna need you, yes
• 2:22
  off the space, yes, yes, yes, yes, I need you
• 2:25
  on Saturday over here, like can I have my stapler? Just give me
• 2:30
  my stapler? Exactly exactly. So neither of those are good leadership styles.
• 2:38
  Aggressive, I need what I want, I want what I want, I
• 2:40
  need it now versus passive aggressive I'm gonna make you feel bad to get what
• 2:46
  I want. Both of those don't know how to lead. A good leader
• 2:50
  knows how to lead with putting the person first, putting the worker in front
• 2:57
  of the situation, with I really need your help, can you do this?
• 3:00
  Can you come in on Saturday? Can you stay late? How can
• 3:05
  you best? You know, benefit the team and also gives them something in
• 3:08
  return. So leadership is tough because we don't learn this in high school.
• 3:14
  We don't learn this in college unless you're specifically going, you know, to
• 3:20
  college for leadership or some sort of business. This is not something we teach.
• 3:24
  We should teach it, but we don't, which then bleeds into,
• 3:30
  you know, having somebody that starts off, for example, as a therapist
• 3:32
  in addiction, and they because this is how we do it. You're a
• 3:37
  therapist who went to school, and all of a sudden, you're a program
• 3:39
  director and then you're the clinical director. You have zero leadership skill at all
• 3:44
  because you've never taken a leadership class. You've probably never had a leadership role.
• 3:47
  And then they put a do in that was a clinician and it's a
• 3:51
  disaster because they don't know how to lead. They want to therapize everybody.
• 3:55
  You know, you come into office and say something, it's like, oh,
• 3:58
  my goodness, is that how you feel. Let's sit and talk about
• 4:00
  it. That's great, but that's not gonna finance our bottom line and business
• 4:05
  right. And I think that I mean in general, regardless if it's male
• 4:11
  female bully non bly. I think the definition you know of whether it's a
• 4:15
  boss or a leader, can make or break the team. So, uh,
• 4:19
  there's a good picture. I think Mike actually has it outside of his
• 4:23
  office. I think somewhere, you know, the boss is in the wagon
• 4:28
  with all the team pulling him. The team, you know, the leader
• 4:32
  is out there grabbing the wagon with the rest of his team, you know,
• 4:36
  and everybody's heading uphill together, pulling just the way to the wagon.
• 4:42
  So I agree. I think. I think sometimes bullying from a boss comes
• 4:46
  because they don't know how to work in a leadership role. They go from
• 4:53
  having peers to having employees, staff or a team underneath them have to provide.
• 5:03
  Yeah, I totally agree. And I think a big part of that
• 5:06
  too, especially in my industry, it starts off with recovering addict to take
• 5:12
  a recovering addict with the high school education, and next thing you know,
• 5:15
  they're running a team of people they don't have the skill set, and then
• 5:19
  you know, stuff goes wrong and they fire them and just hire a new
• 5:24
  one. It's like people are expendable. So you see that in restaurant,
• 5:27
  you see that in retail, you see that in my industry, especially mental
• 5:31
  health and addiction. They don't train anybody. They don't want to train.
• 5:34
  They expect you to show up, do a job, and then they promote
• 5:38
  from within and act like it's a big gift with no new training. So
• 5:42
  yeah, you end up having a bully as a boss. Case in point,
• 5:46
  when I worked for a treatment center down here in Fort Lauderdale. The
• 5:50
  owner was a complete asshole and he had a high school education. His wife
• 5:56
  was a finance person. So he pulled up in his Bugatti and she pulled
• 6:00
  up in her Mercedes, and the running joke was how many pairs of red
• 6:03
  bottomed shoes did she have? He was sleeping with one of the staffs.
• 6:08
  She was running around making money, and here I was, with a master's
• 6:11
  degree, working on a PhD, making forty two thousand dollars a year,
• 6:15
  barely paying my rent, and he would have meltdowns, he would have outbursts,
• 6:19
  and one outburst came at me and he called me in his office and
• 6:24
  I had sent somebody to a halfway house that apparently wasn't approved and he said,
• 6:28
  did you get the email? And I don't have an email. No,
• 6:30
  he said, you should know who we don't send to. Okay,
• 6:33
  I've referred a client that I thought was a clinically appropriate to a clinically appropriate
• 6:38
  facility, which is what I'm supposed to do legally. And he said,
• 6:42
  we don't do business with them. And he picked a notebook up and heaved
• 6:45
  it at my head and I looked at him and I said, I don't
• 6:47
  have your email, and you're screaming at me, screaming like space is beat
• 6:51
  red, screaming at me, and that's not appropriate. And I was very
• 6:56
  calm about it. And he said, the only reason you can live in
• 6:59
  Miami, which is expensive, is because I give you a job, I
• 7:03
  pay your rent, I allow you to work for me. The first thought
• 7:08
  in my head he was, we're going to fix that. So I looked
• 7:13
  at him and I said, I have two words for you, and he
• 7:15
  goes, what fuck me? I said no, no, I quit,
• 7:18
  and he goes, you can't quit. I said I can quit, and
• 7:20
  I just did. He goes, you can't. I need you. I
• 7:24
  said, oh who a minute ago, you didn't need me. And the
• 7:28
  only reason I was here is basically because you felt sorry for me because I
• 7:31
  had to pay my rent in Miami. So good luck with your company.
• 7:34
  And I packed my stuff and he sent his wife in. I said,
• 7:38
  I have nothing to say to you. Nothing. And then he said in
• 7:41
  the clinical director, I'm nothing to say to you either. And I packed
• 7:44
  my stuff and I left, and on my way out, I poked my
• 7:47
  head and I said to him, I can make more money than you.
• 7:50
  I have the ability to make more money than you and scale a company.
• 7:55
  I don't need you, you need me, remember that. And I left.
• 8:00
  And I had two friends that still had still worked there, and one
• 8:03
  called me and said, every therapist quit that he hired within a week because
• 8:07
  nobody would put up with the screaming, the yelling, and the meltdowns that
• 8:11
  this guy was having with staff. It's not appropriate. But he thought,
• 8:16
  I own the company, I'll do what I want. Mm hmm. But
• 8:18
  he couldn't get good help because of the bully box. But yet he needed
• 8:26
  the good help because he did not have all the skill set to do all
• 8:31
  the pieces of his own company. He needed done correct and he thought that
• 8:35
  he could just do what he wanted whenever he wanted, and people would accept
• 8:39
  that, because what else are you going to do? You know, you
• 8:43
  can't tell the owner of the company, I don't like the way you're treating
• 8:46
  me. Yeah, it's really that's really hard. He thinks that he has
• 8:54
  the ability to treat, talk, act anyway just because his name's on the
• 8:58
  company exactly. And he thinks that because he's in recovery and all these other
• 9:05
  people are in recovery, he's giving them a service by giving them a job
• 9:09
  when other people won't hire them. Yeah. And I had the opposite experience
• 9:18
  with male bullying of a different nature, where you would be bombed with compliments,
• 9:26
  thinking that you are more valued or more needed than maybe the next staff
• 9:33
  person, only to have it turn into then they think they have the right
• 9:37
  to sexually harass you. And that's that's where it was taken on my end,
• 9:45
  where it was emotional manipulation and kind of bullying of the sort. Well
• 9:52
  you know, we you know you do such a good job, you know,
• 9:56
  manipulating you into thinking that your need did more than someone else, only
• 10:03
  for that to become the narrative. And that's interesting, that's a narcissistic love
• 10:09
  bottom tree. So usually bosses that do that, they're usually men. They're
• 10:15
  usually there the highest level. That was the general manager of the restaurant,
• 10:20
  that thought he had the power and the look and all the things that go
• 10:26
  with it to manipulate staff. Let me guess he was married. Yes,
• 10:33
  yep, So that that's my target market, by the way, in addiction,
• 10:37
  So these guys have everything. They have a wife, they have kids.
• 10:41
  He probably had kids, a dog, a house, all those things.
• 10:45
  He's attained them. He doesn't look at that as a partner and his
• 10:50
  kids is his kids. He looks at that as objects. My wife is
• 10:54
  a thing, my kids are a thing, my job is a thing.
• 10:56
  And he looks at people as vendable objects. You are nothing but an object,
• 11:03
  and if you're not interested, he's going to hit on the next ten
• 11:05
  other women his odds are two out of ten will take him up on his
• 11:09
  offer, maybe three out of ten if he's really cute. So he looks
• 11:13
  at it like they owe they owe me, they want me. I'm king
• 11:20
  of the kingdom. And if you say no to him, your life at
• 11:22
  work becomes miserable. You'll get the crappy shipped, you'll get not on the
• 11:28
  schedule, you'll get all the things against you because you didn't do what was
• 11:31
  required by the narcissistic boss. So the best recourse of action when you have
• 11:37
  one of those is to get all the workers together to go to HR.
• 11:43
  That's exactly what we did, because if it's one, then it's he said,
• 11:50
  she said. But if he has offended multiple people in that office environmental
• 11:56
  work environment, then it's like, well, there's no way three women for
• 12:00
  women, five women have had the same experience with this guy independently of each
• 12:05
  other. That's not possible, right, So what can you do with a
• 12:11
  bully boss? Oh boy? One of the things. The first thing you
• 12:16
  can do is start your sentences with I feel because nobody can tell you your
• 12:22
  feelings are wrong. They can tell you did a shitty job, but they
• 12:26
  can't tell you your feeling is wrong. So you say I feel X when
• 12:31
  you y I feel uncomfortable when you talk about sex at work, Simple,
• 12:39
  I feel uncomfortable. That's not something he can tell you to feel or take
• 12:43
  away. Now that's the first step, so use I feel sentences. The
• 12:48
  second step is document the behavior. Every time it happens. You write it
• 12:54
  down where you are exactly what was said. You can even record it on
• 12:58
  your phone. Most dates have a one party record. Now legally some states
• 13:03
  have a two party record, so like in Florida, I have to ask
• 13:07
  somebody, can I record you? But I can record it and show it
• 13:11
  to HR because it's confidential. So those are things you can do. In
• 13:15
  New York it's one person. You only have to have one person consent,
• 13:18
  so it just depends by the state. But you want to jot it down,
• 13:22
  write it down, record it, and of course number three, go
• 13:24
  to HR with evidence. It's very difficult to go to HR and say,
• 13:28
  well he called me a this or did this, then it's a slap on
• 13:33
  the wrist. But if you have evidence that something happened, or that you
• 13:37
  were approached or what have you, HR has a duty to investigate it by
• 13:43
  law. Because they're impartial. They don't care if you're there, they don't
• 13:46
  care if he's there. Their job is independent of you and him. Their
• 13:50
  job is to vote yes that is your hope, Yes, that's your hope.
• 13:56
  Certain companies tend to have their big executives kind of be the ones that
• 14:01
  the HR is more willing to save over the tiny office clerk. You know
• 14:05
  that runs in and out of the office. Correct. But if you have
• 14:09
  enough people or have enough evidence for example, not you know, d're judging
• 14:18
  stuff up. But if you remember mister Wiener and his Wiener, yeah,
• 14:20
  sending pictures of his Wiener that ruined him, and it was evidence. If
• 14:26
  she would have said, well he sent me a dick pic. Okay,
• 14:28
  great, where's the evidence. Well, I don't have it, that's what
• 14:31
  he said, she said. But she was able to say, he's sending
• 14:35
  me inappropriate photos, requesting inappropriate action, and I'm uncomfortable, and I told
• 14:41
  him I was uncomfortable, and he did it. Anyway, Now you have
• 14:45
  evidence. So now with compelling evidence, if HR isn't going to do anything,
• 14:50
  you have another step. You can go to the police. You can
• 14:54
  go to the media. You know, if you have a big, big
• 14:58
  boss, they don't want that in the press, right. So if you're
• 15:01
  not getting to help you need, you can escalate it. Now I'm not
• 15:05
  saying try to trap your boss into, you know, pretending to bully you
• 15:11
  or sexually harass you so you could make money. I'm not saying that by
• 15:13
  any means, but I'm saying if you are offended and bothered by something and
• 15:20
  you have said, hey, I feel uncomfortable because sometimes people don't know that
• 15:24
  their off color comments are offensive. They don't realize it sometimes, so if
• 15:28
  you bring it to their attention, that may end it. That might be
• 15:33
  the end of it right there, as soon as they realize. Yeah.
• 15:35
  Correct, Because some of the older men I've noticed, you know, back
• 15:39
  in the sixties and seventies, it was a different work environment for women.
• 15:43
  You know, a woman would walk by the guy's desk because she was a
• 15:48
  secretary, she wasn't a CEO back then, and he would smack her on
• 15:52
  the ass and say nice outfit in between smoking a pall mall. That was
• 15:56
  acceptable. Now it's not so much. But some of those men have been
• 16:00
  acceptable back then, but it was. It would let it was allowed.
• 16:03
  I should say it shouldn't have been. It was culturally appropriate in that time
• 16:08
  period, but now it's not. So some of those men didn't get the
• 16:15
  memo of hey, we're not going to do this or their fathers did that
• 16:21
  and they grew up seeing that and that's who they became. And on the
• 16:26
  flip side, I think that, like you started at the beginning saying,
• 16:30
  I think that female bosses often automatically get a bad rap as tending to be
• 16:40
  too aggressive or a bitch just because they're being assertive and they may have a
• 16:45
  male team that is, you know, not performing at their level. So
• 16:49
  they're the lead, they're the boss, they're the supervisor, they're the owner
• 16:53
  of a company, and they are trying to rally the respect act that they
• 17:00
  deserve. And the only way to do that comes across as you know,
• 17:07
  aggressive, when it's just them asserting what needs to be done, or they
• 17:11
  won't have their team. They'll they'll lose the team. Well, that happens
• 17:15
  in general everyday stuff. I mean, if you see, for example,
• 17:19
  I mean, every woman complaining is now Karen. Every video is oh my
• 17:25
  god, she's such a Karen, even if it's warrant it. You know,
• 17:26
  I saw a video of a woman who went in to a fast food
• 17:30
  restaurant, ordered a burger and got a chicken sandwich, and she set the
• 17:33
  counter going I ordered a burger, I got a chicken sandwich. Can you
• 17:37
  you know, change this out? And the person videoing it wanted likes and
• 17:41
  views, and she's back there calling her a Karen and a bitch you know
• 17:45
  this and a that. That's kind of what our culture has gotten into is
• 17:48
  that every woman who says a word or stands up for herself, even if
• 17:52
  it's assertive and not aggressive, is now a Karen, right, And that's
• 17:57
  a problem because that's not act it. And then you look at men,
• 18:02
  you know, if it's a guy going in complaining about the burger, it's
• 18:03
  like, yeah, yeah, get them, get them, tell them,
• 18:06
  you know, you paid for that, you deserve what you what you ordered.
• 18:08
  It's like men get a hall pass. You get a hall pass for
• 18:11
  saying this is what I paid for and this is what I got. And
• 18:15
  the same in business men that you know throw their weight around and say what
• 18:18
  this done? I need it done. Now, here's what I need.
• 18:19
  It's like, okay, he's goal oriented. Yeah yeah, and then a
• 18:25
  handshake. Women it's like, oh, she's bitchy? Is she you know?
• 18:27
  Is it her time of the month. Instantly, So it's such a
• 18:32
  double standard when it comes to women in business and empowered women it's like,
• 18:37
  oh, you know, she's just she's bitchy because she expects us to do
• 18:41
  this. And it's not necessarily men who say it. It's women who say
• 18:45
  it to other women because they're not used to that level of authority. Well,
• 18:52
  and I think women in the in the employee environment may want to feel
• 18:59
  like they can connect to their boss and may want to feel a friendship or
• 19:03
  you know, like just to be liked, and that isn't necessarily That doesn't
• 19:08
  mean that your boss is being a bully. Just because you guys don't go
• 19:12
  for coffee every Friday. You know that it's you're there to do a job.
• 19:18
  You're not there to necessarily make friends. Yes, it is I think
• 19:22
  appropriate to always be respectful back and forth, but I don't think you necessarily
• 19:27
  have to end up with a best friend, you know, in your work
• 19:32
  environment. I was always the person at work that went to work and came
• 19:36
  home and no one really knew anything about me because I was like, work
• 19:41
  is for workplays for play. I don't want to be friends with the people
• 19:44
  from work because I really don't want them in my life. It's a job,
• 19:47
  you know. And my husband's the opposite. He'd be like, oh
• 19:49
  my god, we're going out with so and so, like who is so
• 19:52
  and so? Oh he's such and such on this, and he's such and
• 19:55
  such on that, and we're going out with the band. It's exhausting because
• 19:57
  I'm like, who are these people? And he works with all of them.
• 20:00
  And I was never like that. I was always like, I'm going
• 20:03
  to work. I don't want to talk to you outside of work. I
• 20:06
  don't care about your kids. I don't care about your family. I'm here
• 20:07
  to do a job. And we left alone. And I was always like
• 20:11
  the outsider. And then I got promoted to director and everyone was like,
• 20:15
  oh boy, you know now I have to know about their lives. I
• 20:18
  have to know about your kids and your issues and your whatnot, because here
• 20:22
  I am, I'm supposed to care. But the problem is in business,
• 20:26
  I don't care. I have a bottom line and I'm tasked with meeting a
• 20:30
  bottom line and meeting quota and getting all this stuff done. And you're having
• 20:33
  a meltdown because your kid is sick. I've got to, you know,
• 20:37
  be able to handle all of that, peruse all of that and still come
• 20:40
  across as gentle and caring while I'm meeting my BottomLine and my superior m hm.
• 20:45
  And I'm on the other end of the spectrum where i would be like,
• 20:49
  uh, let's you know, let let everybody stay home because they all
• 20:52
  have sick kids and nobody shows up to work because you want to take you
• 20:56
  know, you want to feel, you feel for their person, you know,
• 21:00
  as a mom, as a as a white, as a woman.
• 21:04
  You know that you feel like, I want to help meet your needs to
• 21:07
  make your life easier. And then it could be at the detriment of the
• 21:11
  company's day, you know, And that's a whole nother conversation. It was
• 21:17
  so interesting. So there was a post on one of the fourums I'm in
• 21:19
  on Facebook and the woman wrote, I hate my job because I have a
• 21:25
  sick kid. I need to stay home today and they expect me to work
• 21:27
  from home. They don't understand I'm a mom first, and I chimed in
• 21:32
  and I said, well, I'm a company owner. If you worked for
• 21:34
  me and you expect to be paid, I expect you to work. And
• 21:38
  I got slammed from all these moms. It work is not everything, and
• 21:41
  there's kids, And I said, okay, well, if mom is your
• 21:45
  primary duty, then that needs to be your focus. If work is your
• 21:51
  secondary duty, I will fire you because work is my primary duty. And
• 21:56
  it was kind of like this, Well, you're a bitch because you don't
• 22:00
  believe in family first as a company owner. No, my family is my
• 22:04
  company. That's my baby. And people don't see that. They don't see
• 22:10
  that. They say, well, I just work for you, it's just
• 22:11
  a job. Okay. Well if you think it's just a job, I
• 22:14
  don't want you working for me. Would you let me babysit your kids?
• 22:17
  If I said it's just a job and I'm playing on Facebook? No?
• 22:21
  Right, So I switched that question around. Would you hire a nanny that's
• 22:25
  just there to collect the money and doesn't care about your kids? Answers No,
• 22:30
  So why would I hire you when you don't care about my baby,
• 22:33
  my company, and you're more concerned about your sick child than my baby,
• 22:37
  which you're supposed to be here doing. And when I pitched it that way,
• 22:41
  people went, well, I never thought about that, And that's exactly
• 22:45
  what it is. You view other people's babies, which is their company,
• 22:48
  as a job like you have to do to support your family. So again,
• 22:53
  if your mentality is that I don't want you in my company. You're
• 22:57
  not putting my baby first. So everyone I have hired, and this will
• 23:02
  probably get my listeners in an uproar. I make them all watch Devilwar's product
• 23:07
  because that is her baby, you know. And it's twenty four to seven
• 23:12
  and there are people with issues, and she says, not my problem,
• 23:15
  because it's not my problem, it's you your problem. Because if your family
• 23:19
  is primary and your job is secondary, why are you working for me?
• 23:22
  That's my question? So that makes me a bitchy boss, doesn't it?
• 23:27
  That makes me a bully boss because I'm not giving you what you want.
• 23:33
  But the reality is that's not a bully question. That's not a bully boss.
• 23:37
  And people misinterpret that because they don't put their priority when they're at work
• 23:42
  with work. Their priority is still with their kids, right. You know,
• 23:51
  if you're working and we're working and we're doing stuff and you get a
• 23:53
  you know, you're teaching nutrition for the Addictions Academy and it's one o'clock and
• 23:57
  you get a call that one of your kids as an emergency, You're not
• 24:02
  going to finish that class. You're gonna stop take care of the kid.
• 24:07
  I would assume well, it depends. It depends on how the emergency you
• 24:11
  know, how uh, how big of an emergency that is. But yeah,
• 24:15
  I mean I think I think in anything, there's also a fine line
• 24:19
  of balance of that needs to be reached. Of course, you know,
• 24:23
  because you have you know, people with families and you have mothers and you
• 24:30
  have you know people, it's a different situation where where everybody's trying to do
• 24:36
  all the things. I think this is fact to burnout, you know,
• 24:40
  So you're trying to be all things to all people all the time, and
• 24:44
  then you have to figure out when you're in one one hat, when you're
• 24:47
  in a role wearing a hat, what's that priority, what's that focus and
• 24:52
  stick with that in that real time. But that you do have a boss
• 24:56
  that's caring enough that when those emerging which are few and far between, come
• 25:02
  up, and that's the key. It can't be oh my kid has a
• 25:04
  running nose, I got to go run and you know, get a tissue
• 25:07
  for them. It's when the few and far between true emergencies come that you
• 25:11
  feel you can depend on your boss to say, I've got you handle it,
• 25:15
  and I'll see you when you get back here. Exactly so you have
• 25:21
  to find the right job that you fit into right, and you always will
• 25:26
  think you have a bully boss if your priorities are different than their priorities.
• 25:30
  Because when you're at work and you're getting paid, you're supposed to be here.
• 25:33
  You know your mind is to be here. So if you're dealing with
• 25:36
  crap at home, your mind's not here. It's just not And that is
• 25:41
  key to being able to work together and not have a bully boss. And
• 25:45
  there still are bully bosses out there that even though your present year, they're
• 25:48
  still not happy. Right, They're never gonna be happy. Their issue not
• 25:52
  yours, of course, exactly. So there you go, another great episode
• 25:59
  it Unplause your life and how to deal with bully bosses. We gave you
• 26:03
  some tips and tricks on what to do on your drive home or sitting at
• 26:08
  the tub or riding the peloton, whatever it is you're doing while you're listening.
• 26:11
  Because we know you're listening, we can see it. Come back again
• 26:17
  for some more fun on our next topic. Sounds good. Thank you for
• 26:25
  listening to Unpause your life. Have a great day, Hie. Thank you
• 26:33
  for listening to Unpause your Life with doctor Kelli Estez and Master coach Jenny Fontana.
• 26:40
  Head over to www dot the Life coachmathic dot com to learn more about
• 26:45
  coaching yourself and how to become a master coach.