Latest / Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU / Disrupting Disability Norms: Cait Russell on Empowering Autism-Focused Tech Startups & Inclusive Work Opportunities

Transcript

Disrupting Disability Norms: Cait Russell on Empowering Autism-Focused Tech Startups & Inclusive Work Opportunities · Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU

• 0:00
  Antonayah Ellis: Welcome to the Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU, where innovation meets inclusion in education. I'm your co host, Antonayah Ellis.
• 0:08
  Matt Giovanniello: And I'm Matt Giovanniello, the CEO and co founder of Frenalytics. At Frenalytics, we put special education and English language learners front and center. Our award winning FrenalyticsEDU platform helps streamline progress monitoring, improve communication and compliance, and offers truly personalized learning to your students of all abilities.
• 0:26
  Antonayah Ellis: Each episode of our podcast features candid conversations with district and school leaders, classroom change makers, ed tech founders, and industry executives, all dedicated to transforming learning for each student, especially our learners with unique. With a focus on extraordinary educators and the exceptional students they serve, we explore the latest in special education, accessible technology, and inclusive leadership. In this episode, Exceptional Educators is exceptionally thrilled to welcome Kate Russell, the Chief Operating Officer at Multiple, the leading nonprofit accelerator for autism focused tech startups. Kate is a forward thinking leader dedicated to building inclusive systems for the neurodivergent and disability community. With a background in occupational therapy and business strategy, Kate brings a rare blend of clinical expertise and organizational insight.
• 1:18
  Her work centers on building empathy into technology, connecting sectors, and transforming how we support neurodivergent individuals across education, employment, and community spaces. Welcome to the podcast, Kate. We're so happy to have you.
• 1:32
  Cait Russell: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and share this conversation with you today.
• 1:36
  Antonayah Ellis: I am so excited to hear about all the niche things that you do, but I would like to start first by asking what is your why and what brought you to this education space? What keeps you here?
• 1:48
  Cait Russell: That is a great question. So, you know, a lot of people in this space have a deeply personal story, and that's really not how I came to this space. It's a lot more nuanced than that. You know, I I first got involved in the disability community in in middle school just through friends and family and schoolmates. And over my life, I like to think of it as like building momentum where I just became more and more aware at every level of my life at the level of inequity that exists for people with disabilities in our country and around the world.
• 2:17
  So particularly got really interested in employment and a lot of the inequities that exist there in the autism community and the neuro divergent community, both in terms of gaining employment and maintaining employment. So I looked into that from the business perspective and a research perspective and was so impassioned by it. I went on to occupational therapy school to get my doctorate, to look into what we can do better in these systems. So it's not a single moment in time, but I think just over time, the more I learned, the more people I met who were part of this community, the more passionate I became about becoming a part of the change to make things a little bit better, whether that's education, whether that's work, whether that's leisure, for the disability community.
• 2:59
  Matt Giovanniello: Kate, your chapters and your layers are so fascinating to me because you started outside of this realm entirely, and then went you to become an occupational therapist. Then you have led nonprofit organizations across sectors, and now here you are creating this community, this ecosystem of supporting the autism community, which is incredibly niche and requires a real drive to want to do well and also do good. I think you're humble. I think that there is always such an impactful and powerful why that keeps people in this space, because it's not easy. It is absolutely worth it.
• 3:32
  But when the going gets hard, you need something that draws you back to why I'm staying in this space and why it's so necessary and how it's going to help the next generation. So let's take a step back a little bit, back to your OT days. Reflect for me a little bit on your time in school working with students and how you think that led to those next chapters that you just outlined for us.
• 3:49
  Cait Russell: Yeah, absolutely. So my time in occupational therapy, I spent time across a variety of settings, but the most meaningful to me were my experiences that that centered around autism and the intellectual developmental disability, population. So I worked in a transition program in schools for students aged 14 to 21. We're looking for their next steps going on to the workplace or perhaps continuing education. And really enjoyed my time there as an occupational therapist, but I think it's so wonderful about occupational therapy is we get to be really person centered and we get to be really creative and have the opportunity to do things that are meaningful to each individual student.
• 4:27
  So, you know, in that was able to identify opportunities for people who had, you know, everything from wanting to be a software engineer to working in retail, to figuring out if they were going to community college or a four year as their next step. So I think that insight into each individual getting to really make an impact on that individual level led me to think, you know, bigger, right? How can we make sure that this change isn't only happening when you have a really passionate person pouring themselves into the work? What can we do to expand the impact of all these amazing people working at these schools in these community settings. So as you mentioned, it took me to nonprofit.
• 5:04
  So it's just a little bit easier for folks when they get there. They have an understanding manager. They have a hiring manager who doesn't fault them for neurodivergent traits. Right. And then eventually into this space at multiple, where we're really looking at how can we support entrepreneurs who are building technology that really scales impact.
• 5:21
  So we're not only impacting one student, you will always need the incredible people to do that, but can we equip people with the tools to really multiply what they're doing, multiply that impact, make their lives easier, and ultimately make lives better for people in the autism community?
• 5:37
  Matt Giovanniello: Again, the dual experience, Kate, that led to where you are now is just so fascinating to me. I think let's take a step back even further. This might seem like a silly question, but I'd love to unpack the neurodivergent, the disability community definition that you personally hold, because I think even for people who are very closely connected to this work, it's often misunderstood. For those who are not in this space as frequently as we all are, it's just a little bit of like, I don't quite get what this represents or what it doesn't represent. For some context, my father is one of the co founders of Frenalytics.
• 6:08
  About seven years ago, almost eight years ago at this point, he had a stroke spontaneously, and it wasn't caused by anything in particular. He had a fully occluded carotid artery dissection, and all of sudden he just had a stroke and became disabled. And it wasn't until a few years later when we joined the Together International Accelerator, where Kevin O'Rourke runs it as he now runs multiple, where I was like, Hey, dad, we'll qualify not only on my basis, but yours as well. He was like, I'm not disabled. I'm like, You literally are underemployed receiving a disability check because you cannot work full time as a doctor anymore due to your stroke, which is in fact a disability.
• 6:41
  So I think for someone who is so educated, literally is the personified version of someone who has a disability, he didn't even buy into it. Just didn't understand it. So unpack that for us from your perspective, what this disability definition represents and why it's not necessarily a negative thing. It's how do we better understand this so could support the community that is within it?
• 7:00
  Cait Russell: Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure, as you're aware, the disability community is like one in four in The US, right? It's a huge number of people when you look at most definitions, but many people, as your your dad may not have, don't consider themselves part of that community or might not recognize, right? Especially when we think of mental health conditions or we think of something like a stroke, many people don't particularly think I'm part of the disability community right away. So, you know, your original question centered around like, how do we define these groups?
• 7:27
  And I have these conversations often, particularly around neurodivergence. Some people who do identify as neurodivergent won't identify as part of the disability community and others will. So it's really this ongoing conversation. When I think about neurodivergence, I think about anybody whose brain might function outside of what society deems the norm. And I could go into a whole rabbit hole of if there is a norm and if we should have a norm, all of this.
• 7:50
  Right. But that's really how I think of it. We're always going to need specific diagnostic labels to access support and access the things we need. But I think when I think about what does disability mean and what does neurodivergence mean, it really comes down to what are the needs that people have in common and how can we support them? We get less information from a word like neurodivergence or disability than we get from just speaking to individuals and knowing what they need to succeed.
• 8:17
  I do think it's very helpful to have these different categories, but from my perspective, I really come from understanding what people's needs are and how we can build systems, supports to really enable them to thrive.
• 8:29
  Matt Giovanniello: So with that definition now just out in the open, Kate, tell us a little bit more about the workforce inclusion kind of lessons that you learn from being in that position over time, and little bit of hot take, maybe not so much between friends here, but for those listening overall, how can we do better in the transition from your perspective at least? How can we do better in the transition from students graduating from high school who fall into these categories? They're neurodivergent. They have a label disability. They went through special education.
• 8:55
  How do we support them as they enter adulthood? And those scaffolds and those supports that are guaranteed under federal law in the school setting are suddenly no longer present when they become a part of what's meant to be the working world. How can we do better to make sure that they are gainfully employed, in your opinion?
• 9:09
  Cait Russell: Gosh. Oh gosh. That's a huge question. I will do my best to dive into some of it. Ray, as you know, students are guaranteed access to transition services, students with disabilities as young as 14 in the schools.
• 9:23
  Fortunately, you know, funding and systems, it's not always possible to really do that the best we can. And I think students still have a lot of areas in which they're they're being underserved, particularly as it relates to work. As you might imagine, one piece of the answer I do think is technology. Right? I'm at multiple because I really believe that technology can play a huge piece in allowing people to one, identify career paths that are meaningful to them.
• 9:50
  I think if you think back to when you were 14 years old, I don't think you are doing what you probably thought you were gonna be doing back then. Many of us don't even know what the opportunities are that are out there. And particularly students with disabilities, I think don't even get the exposure to all the variety of careers that are out there. So I think it it starts simply with getting that exposure to career paths that are possible, presuming competence and not setting limitations on what we think someone might be professionally capable of or interested in, and really allowing them to explore their interests and lean it to them. Right?
• 10:23
  Me at 14, oh my gosh, me at 18, I thought I was gonna be a biomedical engineer. Right? That didn't come true. I thought I was gonna be a veterinarian at one point, but people always encouraged me to look into the things that I was interested in, to experience them and get to see them in real time. So I think a lot more of that experiential education would be fantastic.
• 10:41
  We supported a company really focused on mentorship for students with disabilities in the school system to look through, right? Like what is possible and what do I really want to do? The things I like to do, the things that can make money, what that level of education takes, right? More of that person centered planning and opportunities in the schools. So that's part one.
• 11:00
  But as as much as we're focusing on students and preparing them well, we have to be focusing on preparing the world to be an inclusive space. And that's really where I spent a lot of my time understanding that, you know, neurodivergent communication styles, maybe somebody is a bit more blunt with their feedback. That's not a negative, right? Really in many ways, that's a positive, but many of our systems, especially in the workplace, aren't set up to be understanding of that communication style, or perhaps somebody will be better at showing a portfolio or doing a written interview than they would live speaking interview. That should be just as valid as somebody doing a synchronous speaking interview like this.
• 11:41
  So a lot of it is just changing the way we think about what competence in work looks like. We don't always need people to be looking the same way to be successful in work. We can be successful in a lot of different ways. So as much as we're preparing students, we're preparing the employers and not just to be inclusive, right? To really access top talent.
• 12:03
  It's not that you're doing this for the sake of doing it. It's that we're missing out on talent because we have these systems that are really biased and really aren't set up to be inclusive from the beginning. So you're excluding people who are really qualified from the workforce, who who want to work or able to work just because we have systems that are they're outdated.
• 12:21
  Antonayah Ellis: I am just overthinking about work jobs. Always heard my husband used to work, in with HCAHPS students. So he would always come home and tell me about the work jobs that he had his students working on. And it just would bother him that the work jobs that the students were working on, he didn't feel like we're preparing them for much. I mean, they were 18, some of them were maybe 16, but they were doing things like maybe sorting cubes, in different colors, just things that maybe aren't so beneficial for adults who are getting ready to transition or older kids who are getting ready to transition to adulthood.
• 12:58
  What would some beneficial work jobs look like in schools? What are some just other things that older kids could be doing in schools that could actually benefit them during this transition period that is not just busy work?
• 13:11
  Cait Russell: Absolutely. I think, you know, the answer to that for me is always a school is like a mini corporation. Right? There's any level of opportunities within a school for people to do meaningful work if we can build the infrastructure around it. So some examples, right, social media work.
• 13:29
  Schools have social media folks, right? If that's something you're interested in, can we teach you how to use social media tools and copyright and use some of these AI tools? Maybe somebody's really interested in a retail type of position, right? Many schools have school stores, right? That's a, that's a simple one, right?
• 13:46
  Like, can you have a more managerial perspective within their teachers? I'm sure have so many things that they need to get done. Right? Is there a way to talk with teachers and create a role around supporting teachers for someone who might be interested in education? I know in my role, we had a couple of people interested in early education.
• 14:03
  They were able to support the preschool program. Right? So there's so many different things. I think with a little creativity and capacity and support for the people who are supporting students that we can really tailor roles to, I think that's where we can go wrong when it comes to preparation. And again, because the systems aren't set up to allow this and the people who support students often have limited time and capacity and all of that, but we don't get the opportunity to tailor to a student's needs and interests.
• 14:33
  And that's where it starts, right? For someone, maybe sorting is great. I absolutely love doing some hands on work for like 20% of my day. Right? If I can sit there and like right now wrapping a lot of presents.
• 14:45
  Right? But like doing some manual work, that's a great part of of my day for some students, but it's not going to be for every student. And that's where I think we go wrong, we try to check all the boxes for all the students, and it's never going to work that way because everyone has their individual interests.
• 14:59
  Matt Giovanniello: I think you're exactly right. One size does not fit all, and I love the analogy that you created and you just shared, Kate, where a school is like a mini corporation. I think if we just think outside the box, literally and figuratively, we'll be able to look within a school system and be like, Oh my God, there are so many ways that we could do better. And Tanaya, it's a really interesting question that you posed, Kate. Also, some of the more unique roles that I've heard of schools that I visited recently, Kate, that you might find interesting as well, given your OT background and this workforce inclusion style approach that you have.
• 15:30
  I visited a life skills, autism focused public school in Brooklyn here in New York, and they have a printing press, so they do all the printing for their nearby schools. And those schools will pay the school and their students to be a paid employee and run all the print jobs instead of outsourcing it to Staples or otherwise. They're like, Let's use the supplies we already have, and we're going to start taking orders from nearby schools, which I thought was fascinating. They have a connected cafeteria, so these students are now learning how to package up catering, and they will then go on a bus or a van and go deliver the catering order to that other school as if they're treating them as a customer. They'll take in purchase orders.
• 16:05
  They'll run all the procurement. They'll do the back office stuff. They'll do inventory for purchasing supplies for that cafeteria, for that printing press. So I thought that was fascinating. The students run the library.
• 16:15
  The librarians are checking out and checking in books. They're sorting books. They're doing all of these things that like, Hey, I have these rooms in this existing building that I spent eight plus hours a day in. How can I get real exposure to see if this is the type of job or career that I might want to do once I graduate? They run podcasts on behalf of their superintendents or their district leaders.
• 16:34
  They're doing social media, just like you mentioned. They're teachers teaching their own students and their own staff about new AI tools. It's so cool to see that when opportunity is prioritized and this student becomes a teacher approach is what is status quo. Really cool to see students run the show, and they get all this exposure that they never otherwise would. So I'm really glad you brought up the question.
• 16:53
  I just wanted to build on top of those great examples you shared, Teach. I just think it's so different than when I was in school and what students saw back then.
• 17:00
  Cait Russell: I I was at a school recently similar with the the printing, but they were making t shirts and merch for the school. And I was like, this is so cool. Right? Like, everybody loves good merch. They got to do it from the design, like you said, through a fulfillment.
• 17:12
  It's a really awesome opportunity to expose students to real industries that are happening close by.
• 17:19
  Matt Giovanniello: And doubling down on a funding issue and saying, Okay, we can now bring in another source of revenue to support these programs, these efforts that schools would otherwise never be able to budget. Let's do work for the local for profit communities. They'll be able to send money our way, and we do their tissue orders, we do their lunch orders, we do whatever, and it's like, Oh, now we're able to support the equipment needed for this new after school program, or whatever it might be. So I think that innovative approach to solving these very long standing problems is one of many ways through, but a really important one. So I'm glad we're shedding some light on it here.
• 17:52
  Kate, speak of, I want to start talking a little bit more about multiple. So I think first things first, getting a definition on what an accelerator is in the capacity of the nonprofit one that you run, because accelerators, for those listening in, can take many forms or fashions. So I want to get a little bit into that, and then also start to tell us a little bit about the multiple community that you now run, how it brings together entrepreneurs, funders, educators, families, and adults and students themselves who identify as autistic. How are we supporting them through the work that you and your companies in the multiple accelerator are all striving to help? Tell us a little bit more.
• 18:28
  Cait Russell: You hit the nail on the head. We are a nonprofit accelerator for autism focused technology, so we distinctly support entrepreneurs who are building technology for the autism community that might look like for therapists, for educators, for autistic individuals themselves, whatever it might be. Now we run two cohorts per year. So we support eight to 10 companies in each cohort. And what we specifically focus on is getting these companies to be what we call investment ready.
• 18:55
  So that typically looks like ways to build their revenue, sales, marketing, fundraising, all of those things, that can help a company raise money from investors and continue to grow. What we realize at multiple, right, is there's a lot of really incredible technology out there that can be scalable, but it's going to take investment to grow and reach its potential. So that's why we focus on getting companies investment ready. Now we are completely founder focused. That is the core of what we do is that accelerator program.
• 19:25
  But we recognize, right, autism innovation does not happen in a vacuum. It's not just founders building companies and that's the end, right? No single startup is going to solve all of the problems that are out there. So this has to happen in the ecosystem. And that includes schools, includes families, that includes advocates, that includes the government.
• 19:42
  Right? There's all of these different pieces that have to come together. This innovation does not happen in isolation. We need the whole ecosystem, one, to build good products, right? You're not going to build a good product if you're building it in a silo, but two, to be successful, it has to be a product that people love, that they can access, that's easy to use.
• 19:59
  So we try to build this, bring this whole ecosystem together. Some ways we do that. We host events that are really just conversations, right? We recently held one on non speaking individuals and technology, talking about where should technology play a part and where should it absolutely not play a part. So we brought in a researcher, brought in someone who is non speaking and his dad who happens to be a multiple mentor that supports companies within our cohort.
• 20:23
  And then we brought together a practitioner who's in the day to day teaching communication, to kids and adults. So conversations like that, or putting a showcase on focused around a topic. So say education, can families come to this showcase that we're hosting this webinar and see, oh my gosh, I didn't even know that tool existed or that I could access it. There's such an information gap between people who are driving innovation and people who need that innovation. And we're trying to be one of the forces that can bring that together.
• 20:50
  So those are our two key parts. And then we have our database. We are tracking autism technology over 900 products in our database right now, looking at what's going on in different sectors. And what we're doing to bridge that gap right now is we're putting out industry specific reports. So we did our first one on employment, a market map of what's out there specifically supporting autism and employment.
• 21:14
  Next, we'll look at access to communication, as you just heard, what's out there to support people who are non speaking, whether that's an AAC device, whether that might be a tool that helps educators build lessons for non speakers, whatever it might be. We want to spread awareness around what's out there, both for people who need the tools now and for innovators who are looking at this space saying, wanna make a difference. Where's there a gap? Right? We're identifying some of the gaps that are out there that people can fill.
• 21:38
  Matt Giovanniello: So it's the classic founder accelerator There's, which is a little bit adjacent, the mentor community that you created, and the community wants founders graduate from the multiple community and are more investor ready than maybe they were before, keeping that ecosystem alive. And then there's this database of, there is a very segmented space that we find ourselves in, innovating within what we call social impact, whether we think about it as autism tech, whether we think about it as disability tech, empathy tech, whatever we want to label it. But we're all working towards solving a similar set of problems, and it's really cool to know that Multiple continues to power that database. Tell us a couple of maybe more recent examples, some of the success stories that some of your Multiple companies have been achieving now that they went through your mentorship program.
• 22:20
  Cait Russell: Yeah. Oh my gosh. And it happens on so many different levels. Right? And I think that's what's pretty neat about our work is we do tend to get founders who are at different stages, because we're so focused on autism and innovation.
• 22:33
  We can take some bets on some who might be a little bit later stage or earlier stage. Typically, our sweet spot is people who have like some early revenue and are looking to build that into a scalable repeatable process. Right? As we all say. So our recent cohort, I'll I'll think of an early example.
• 22:49
  We had a company called Read AI. They're actually based out of Philly, which is where I am. And they were probably the earliest in our cohort. But through the program, they got their first paid users, right, and brand their first paid beta. So that was a really incredible milestone for them to go from free revenue to revenue, and they're getting some really promising early feedback.
• 23:07
  One of the neat parts about working in this space is you see those company milestones, but then you also see the impact of that. So in their, their recent pitch, they shared a text from a parent that said, my child just spoke their first full sentence because of your product. Right? So it's like to see that the human impact is really where it's incredible. We just had a company in our last cohort help pediatric therapists launch their private practices in home that called Origin.
• 23:34
  They just closed their fundraising round and are hiring two new people. So that was an incredible success. It just, there's so many different ways to be successful in this space, whether that's the human impact, that's the business impact, even just, you know, connecting people to solutions that they need. Right? Like that's a real win is just having 200 people attend our demo day.
• 23:55
  We have a product called Percy in this recent cohort that is a sleep behavioral sleep tracker. You can find out why you're not sleeping at night. And in the autism community, eighty percent of autistic people have clinically significant sleep problems. So the chat was really blowing up as people were like, oh my gosh, finally something for sleep. Right?
• 24:13
  Just seeing the impact you can have in a two hour period where people are discovering these cutting edge innovative people who are creating these products that I'm sure many in your community have dreamed about, For years saying like, we just want the new cutting edge stuff to be in the disability community, to be in the education community. Unfortunately, we're pretty far behind in that often. So to be a part of bringing that really innovative, really cutting edge technology to people has been incredible.
• 24:40
  Antonayah Ellis: This kind of reminds me of like Shark Tank, how we'll come and present their like super cool ideas and you never knew you needed it until you hear it. Literally Shark Tank, but time's 10. Yeah. I'm wondering, do you have like, I don't wanna use the word favorite, but maybe favorite or, most memorable tech startup or idea that somebody proposed to you guys and they just needed some help getting it off the ground a little more. Is there one specific or two or three that you can think of that was like, oh yeah, this will definitely fill some gaps.
• 25:15
  We really need to pour into this group specifically because we have hope we have faith that this will really, really change some things. Do you have any in mind?
• 25:24
  Cait Russell: So we don't have favorites, of course. We love all of our companies equally. But it was really exciting for me personally. Our cohort before this cohort was all focused on employment. So I loved the opportunity to work with a thematic cohort around employment, really get to use my network and my knowledge in that area to push forward some of those solutions.
• 25:41
  In this recent cohort, we had a few companies that worked on visual creation. So social stories, supporting visuals for teachers and therapists. And, you know, as an OT, I was like, oh my gosh, I could have used this. Right? Like I used to spend hours writing social stories and now there's tech that can do it in thirty seconds and be personalized to my particular student or need.
• 26:01
  So that was really exciting. I would say one of our more unique ones in this cohort, I really adored working with Lise of Goblins. They're a company that helps people make friends or build relationships through voice chatting in video games. So extremely niche, really filling a gap. I think we all know largely there's a big loneliness problem in our generation, but particularly among autistic, neurodivergent, or introverted folks, it can be really hard to to make friends and to find relationships and really build that part of your life.
• 26:34
  So she was definitely one of the more unique ones in our cohort, and it was really fun to support her as she grows that business.
• 26:41
  Matt Giovanniello: That's awesome, Kate. This reminded me of some preconceived notions that I believe even myself, and I've heard extensively up until at least the past couple of years where we're thinking about supporting a community and feeling good about it, and it's certainly heartening, right? But while Multiple is a nonprofit, a lot of the companies, or maybe nearly all of the companies you support, are for profits. They're not not for profits. And I think that goes against the grain of people who think that you can either do well or do good and somehow they're mutually exclusive and you can't do both.
• 27:09
  That's not the case. We know that firsthand, right? And so thinking about this double bottom line that I like to speak about to my team and to those in my community a lot, we can do both. We can serve a community that is really underserved while also financially doing really well along the way. As a little bit of a segue, we explored that topic at a conference we were both at recently, the Empathy Tech twenty twenty five conference in Philadelphia, and I think it can sometimes be for early stage founders something that you get caught up in.
• 27:36
  It's like, I have this amazing idea. I want to solve it. I've identified this gap that we've been speaking about even here today. I have this solution, but one of the beautiful things that accelerators and communities like Multiple offers is, Okay, now how do we bring this to market? How do we productize this?
• 27:50
  How do we generate revenue from this? And how do you build an enduring company from it? That's a lot harder than just simply creating a solution, which is hard in and of itself. So my question for you is I'd love for you to reflect a little bit, Kate, on pushing beyond that notion of like, Okay, we have a problem, we have a solution, I just want to do good. Now we need to do well for ourselves as a company and succeed financially.
• 28:11
  They do go hand in hand, and it's extremely important that we're building enduring company along the way. What role do you see multiple having in that conversation, and what do you make of conferences like Empathy Tech that are giving credence and giving voice to like, Hey, we're all doing great work, but now how do we also build enduring businesses along the way from it?
• 28:27
  Cait Russell: Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's long been this push and pull between, like you said, doing good and doing well for a long time. Was either you're all profit driven or you're all right. Impact driven. And now we're seeing that truly there's, there's a huge space for impact focused for profit companies.
• 28:44
  And yes, all the, the companies we support are for profit companies. When we're working with our founders, right, there's a a few things we talk about. I think their default is often the impact. Right? We have seen a little bit a shift where we're getting really seasoned entrepreneurs coming into this space, and I think that's an exciting shift.
• 29:02
  So that might not always be the default. Efficiency might be more of the default there, and now they're looking to apply that impact lens. So it's about just like we're talking about students. Right? Meeting founders where they are, knowing that if you are a really impact focused founder, that's fantastic.
• 29:17
  And let's lean into that and make that part of your story. But what are the other parts that we really need to shore up to ensure that the business is there because you can't make the impact you want to make if you don't make the revenue and you no longer exist. Right? So they're equal parts that have to push and pull. And the model is going to look different for every founder, depending on what their business is, where they want to get to.
• 29:38
  Right? Some people want to go venture scale, others that might not be what they're trying to do. So they have to make different decisions. They can pull different levers. And then what I'm really excited about with multiple and what try to figure out as a whole is we have this ecosystem that includes nonprofits.
• 29:54
  It includes for profits. It includes governments. How can we build one that functions better together so that everyone can win and achieve their goals? Right? No single player is better than the other, but they all play a distinct role.
• 30:06
  And I think when we start to see those pieces come together, we'll have a lot better system and a lot better outcomes. So that's where, you know, we encourage our founders to partner with schools, to look into government programs. Can you get into the waivers for assistive technology? Right? There's all of these different ways to do well and generate revenue for your business, but you're also helping reach more students, more people, and do good with the products that you've built.
• 30:30
  So, you know, Empathy Tech was fantastic. I think it was so awesome to see a lot of people in that room, from my I'm Philadelphia based. So there's a lot of my disability community folks and then see these innovators, right, who are really bringing a different lens to it. And I know you're just reflecting on that. What feels really exciting is I think, you know, you've been in this quite a few years.
• 30:50
  I'm sure many times you felt like you're fighting this uphill battle to prove that impact entrepreneurship, like, has a seat at the table. And I think we're getting to that point where the tide is turning a little bit. It's it feels like we're we're at that critical mass where social impact entrepreneurship is becoming mainstream. Right? Like it's, oh yeah, of course you can do good and do well.
• 31:11
  It's getting there. We're not there yet, but I think there's this this societal turn where we're understanding that the two don't need to be mutually exclusive.
• 31:19
  Matt Giovanniello: Absolutely not, and I totally agree with you, where that philosophy seems more obvious now, but it was not always that way. To some, it's extremely obvious and always has been, but for the majority of people it has not, and it's more recently an awakening. There is this epiphany that social impact is an investable space, and I think when venture capitalists at large look at the size of the disability community, as you mentioned, one in four. There are over one point five billion people worldwide living with a disability. They hold the largest spend of disposable income.
• 31:49
  They are look left, right, and center, and you're going to find one in your community whether you realize it or not. And I think that the more that that's understood, I think, whether you're looking at it from a pure economic lens, as you were speaking about, Kate, and like, Okay, how do I drive bottom line? If you're looking at it from an impact basis, how do I impact the largest population all at once? Or somewhere in between, you're going to get that positive answer in a way that I think it just wasn't understood quite well even up until a few years ago, and I'm so glad that more people are now.
• 32:17
  Cait Russell: I think there's this growing understanding of opportunity, whether it's in disability, whether it's an impact education, that yes, there's, there's a market here and there's also a great opportunity to do good. So for those who are impact investors, there's a double reason to invest, but also for investors who might not even be in that category, they're starting to see the opportunity that's here.
• 32:37
  Matt Giovanniello: I'm so glad you feel the same way. We are reaching the end of our time, Kate, which I'm very disappointed in because I really, really, really enjoyed this conversation. I'm gonna wrap up with one more question. I'm going take this a little bit of a different spin than how we ask this normally of our guests, given your role in the disability community and ecosystem. What does leading a community of exceptional educators, of exceptional students, of exceptional adults mean to you?
• 32:59
  Cait Russell: That's a great question. I think truly there's no better way to explain what we do than supporting exceptional people. I think it's such an honor to get to support people who are bold enough to do something different, to leave their careers and start a company specifically to support all of the exceptional folks in the autism community, in the education community out there. So to us, it's really an honor to get to work with founders every day who are putting it all on the line to make a difference and to build really incredible companies. So that would be my answer.
• 33:32
  I know as someone who's not a founder, it's just amazing to me to see the passion and the grit and just people putting their whole lives behind making a difference in this community.
• 33:43
  Matt Giovanniello: You don't need to be a founder to inspire great ones. Thank you for doing Thank you. Most founders are on the receiving end. And I know that many generations, both the founders, but also the communities they serve will benefit from your position here in multiple times you spent supporting exceptional learners and adults everywhere. So thank you for coming onto our podcast again, Kate.
• 34:00
  And Tanaya, thank you for leading today's conversation. It was truly a special one. For everybody listening to today's episode of the Exceptional Educators Podcast, thank you for joining us, and we look forward to catching you on our next episode.