Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Criminal Charges to Come in Deaths of 3 Chiefs Fans Frozen in Backyard?

Transcript

Criminal Charges to Come in Deaths of 3 Chiefs Fans Frozen in Backyard? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
0:15
Speaker 2: With three dead bodies just outside your window, how do
0:20
Speaker 2: you miss that? Of course, I'm talking about the three
0:24
Speaker 2: Kansas City Chiefs fans found dead on the back porch
0:29
Speaker 2: and in the yard of.
0:30
Speaker 1: Friend Jordan Willis.
0:32
Speaker 2: But this morning a sobering thought, did these so called
0:38
Speaker 2: friend the homeowner Jordan Willis immediately pack up, move out,
0:45
Speaker 2: lawyer up, and check into rehab as part of an
0:50
Speaker 2: elaborate legal strategy to gain public sympathy and avoid potential
0:58
Speaker 2: jail time.
1:00
Speaker 1: I mean to see, Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:03
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
1:05
Speaker 2: and on series sex sem one eleven. Of course, we
1:08
Speaker 2: are now learning that each of the victims out in
1:11
Speaker 2: the yard and on the friends back porch in plane
1:16
Speaker 2: view from inside, had lethal doses a fentanyl and more
1:24
Speaker 2: in their system. I'm talking about potentially three times a
1:29
Speaker 2: normal dosage or more. We have not seen the official
1:33
Speaker 2: toxicology report. We are getting this information from family now. Again,
1:39
Speaker 2: no one has been named a POI, person of interest
1:43
Speaker 2: or suspect in this case. All the while, the friend
1:47
Speaker 2: slash homeowner remains behind closed doors in an alleged rehab facility.
1:55
Speaker 2: First of all take a listen to this.
1:57
Speaker 3: When Jordan Willis checked into rehab, family and close friends
2:00
Speaker 3: said he decided to tackle his addiction issue head on
2:04
Speaker 3: after the wake up call he got when three friends
2:06
Speaker 3: died outside his house. Retired NYPD inspector Paul Morrow tells
2:11
Speaker 3: Fox News will As checking into rehab could be a
2:13
Speaker 3: preemptive move to get a shorter sentence if he is
2:16
Speaker 3: charged with a crime.
2:17
Speaker 4: Early toxicology results indicate all three men found dead outside
2:22
Speaker 4: Jordan Willis's rented home had cocaine and fentanyl in their systems,
2:27
Speaker 4: according to WDAF. The families confirmed police have the initial
2:32
Speaker 4: toxicology reports. According to a family member, the level of
2:36
Speaker 4: drugs in their system is high three times the amount
2:40
Speaker 4: of a lethal fentanyl dosage. And police say the case
2:43
Speaker 4: remains an ongoing death investigation and.
2:46
Speaker 2: The fact seem to be revealing that the friend slash
2:52
Speaker 2: homeowner may have had something to do with mixing the
2:58
Speaker 2: deadly drug cocktail.
3:00
Speaker 1: Is that true? What do we know? Listen?
3:03
Speaker 4: Caleb mcginney says his cousin Clayton mcguinney, was his best friend.
3:08
Speaker 4: Caleb claims Jordan Willis has been known since high school
3:11
Speaker 4: as the chemist who would make drugs for the specific
3:14
Speaker 4: needs of the individual. Mcginny also says that Ricky Johnson,
3:19
Speaker 4: Clayton mcginney, and David Harrington were all best friends. They
3:24
Speaker 4: all knew Jordan Willis from high school, but from a
3:26
Speaker 4: close knit quote friendship standpoint, Jordan Willis was kind of
3:31
Speaker 4: off to the side.
3:32
Speaker 5: The mysterious fifth man in the group on the night
3:35
Speaker 5: of the football watch party, Alex Lee, is a good man,
3:38
Speaker 5: according to Caleb. Asked if Lee might have brought drugs
3:41
Speaker 5: to the get together, Caleb mcginney tells News Media's hell no.
3:46
Speaker 5: Mcghey also says he's not happy Jordan Willis used his cousin,
3:50
Speaker 5: his best friend as a guinea pig, then effed up
3:52
Speaker 5: and made a mistake.
3:54
Speaker 2: Let me go straight out, We got an all star
3:56
Speaker 2: panel with us right now. But let me go first
3:58
Speaker 2: to Grace Smith out of Kansas City Case TV five
4:02
Speaker 2: investigative reporter, Grace, thank you for being with us. First
4:05
Speaker 2: of all, is it true that the friend and for
4:09
Speaker 2: those of you that can't see me, I'm definitely using
4:11
Speaker 2: air quotes with friends like these.
4:13
Speaker 1: Who needs enemies? The so called friend slash.
4:17
Speaker 2: Homeowner Jordan Willis is it true he's checked into rehab
4:23
Speaker 2: and if so, do you know where?
4:25
Speaker 6: According to family members, they have told me that he
4:28
Speaker 6: has checked into rehab. I do not know where. I
4:31
Speaker 6: have reached out to his attorney and he told me
4:34
Speaker 6: that he is not commenting further on anything until those
4:38
Speaker 6: full toxicology reports are in hand.
4:41
Speaker 1: Is that the same.
4:41
Speaker 2: Lawyer that won't reveal what has happened to the friend
4:44
Speaker 2: slash homeowner's cell phone, won't tell you what was on it,
4:48
Speaker 2: won't give it to you, don't know.
4:49
Speaker 1: If it's been handed over to police. Is that him
4:52
Speaker 1: same lawyer?
4:53
Speaker 6: Yes, he says he is not commenting on anything until
4:56
Speaker 6: those reports are out.
4:58
Speaker 1: Okay, so much to figure out.
5:01
Speaker 2: But first of all, we know for sure, according to
5:04
Speaker 2: family members of the victims, that.
5:08
Speaker 1: The homeowner has gone to rehab.
5:11
Speaker 2: Well, it wouldn't be the first time that a celebrity
5:16
Speaker 2: or an individual gets in hot water and thanks rehab?
5:21
Speaker 2: Is the answer? Does the name Mel Gibson ring a bell?
5:27
Speaker 1: Listen?
5:27
Speaker 7: Mel Gibson was arrested for driving under the influence the
5:30
Speaker 7: first time in nineteen eighty four. Years later, Gibson was
5:33
Speaker 7: once again arrested for drunk driving. He was conspeeding in
5:35
Speaker 7: Malibu in two thousand and six by Los Angeles County
5:38
Speaker 7: Sheriff's Department. According to the police report and arresting officer,
5:41
Speaker 7: Gibson lashed out at the police in a tirade, making
5:44
Speaker 7: anti Semitic remarks against Jewish people, which became known to
5:47
Speaker 7: millions of people worldwide, with his remarks ultimately harming his career.
5:52
Speaker 7: After his dy in two thousand and six, Gibson entered
5:54
Speaker 7: a treatment center for his drug and alcohol addiction, and
5:57
Speaker 7: after a few more alcohol related embarrassments, God's sober after
6:00
Speaker 7: attending his last rehab in twenty ten.
6:02
Speaker 2: Del Carson joining me, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville,
6:05
Speaker 2: also former FBI and author of arrest Proof Yourself at
6:11
Speaker 2: del Carsonlaw dot com. Del Carson before I play mail
6:16
Speaker 2: Gibson calling a lady cop sugar tits before I play that.
6:22
Speaker 1: Can you explain to me the.
6:24
Speaker 2: Legal strategy of packing up all your belongings, moving out
6:29
Speaker 2: of the house, lawyering up, and shaking into rehabity.
6:34
Speaker 8: It is so easy to get people to talk about
6:37
Speaker 8: stuff they should not talk to the police about. So if
6:40
Speaker 8: you can encounter that individual somewhere, even if he's in rehab.
6:46
Speaker 8: Remember that's not protected speech and rehab. And so the
6:51
Speaker 8: result there is is said that he runs his mouth
6:53
Speaker 8: and he indicates that he was a supplier. In Florida,
6:57
Speaker 8: you'd be subject to the death penalty. And that's in Florida.
7:00
Speaker 8: But they think they're real seriously here, So any providing
7:04
Speaker 8: of narcotics or drugs to someone that results in the death,
7:09
Speaker 8: you're on the hook for not just the life filmy,
7:12
Speaker 8: but for execution.
7:14
Speaker 1: Guys. It's pr strategy, that's what it is now.
7:18
Speaker 2: As many people have pointed out, maybe this is just
7:22
Speaker 2: a scenario where a bunch of guys get together to
7:24
Speaker 2: watch a game, they do drugs, and unspknownst to them,
7:28
Speaker 2: their drugs are cut with a lethal dose of fentanyl.
7:32
Speaker 1: Maybe the friend slash home nunner is.
7:34
Speaker 2: Just lucky to be alive. But how is it that
7:37
Speaker 2: he's alive and they're all dead?
7:40
Speaker 1: Again?
7:41
Speaker 2: Back to entering rehab when you are in legal hot
7:46
Speaker 2: water and not just mel Gibson, Charlie Sheen makes a
7:52
Speaker 2: rush to rehab.
7:54
Speaker 1: Listen.
7:55
Speaker 7: Charlie Sheen was infamously fired from the CBS sitcom Two
7:58
Speaker 7: and a Half Men, in which he played the leader
8:00
Speaker 7: character for the first eight seasons back in twenty eleven,
8:03
Speaker 7: after he began displaying erretic behavior. Now, at that time,
8:06
Speaker 7: Charlie had been dealing with drug and alcohol addiction for years.
8:09
Speaker 7: He'd previously entered rehab after experiencing a near fatal overdose
8:12
Speaker 7: in ninety eight, and he'd faced allegations of physical and
8:15
Speaker 7: verbal abuse from multiple women, including his now ex wife
8:18
Speaker 7: Denise Richards, who claimed he threatened to kill her and
8:21
Speaker 7: their daughter Sammy and Lola. The actor also denied that
8:24
Speaker 7: he had any addiction to drugs or alcohol, and separately
8:27
Speaker 7: criticized alcoholics anonymous during an interview with USA Today, saying
8:31
Speaker 7: that it was for people that aren't special she and
8:34
Speaker 7: eventually did get so. Brand now claimed six years of sobriety.
8:37
Speaker 2: Okay, And of course we can't ignore Alex Murdoch, convicted
8:43
Speaker 2: of double murder when he's looking at the claims about
8:48
Speaker 2: the bodies of his wife and son found in a
8:52
Speaker 2: location where he just was according to his according to
8:56
Speaker 2: a cell phone, his answer to enter rehab listen.
9:01
Speaker 4: Three months after the murder of his wife and son,
9:05
Speaker 4: and just days after he is shot in the head
9:07
Speaker 4: during a staged roadside assassination. Alex Murdogg announces he is
9:13
Speaker 4: going into rehab to treat a twenty year addiction to opioids.
9:17
Speaker 4: In the hours leading up to his rehab announcement, Murdog
9:20
Speaker 4: is fired by his law firm, accused of stealing thousands
9:24
Speaker 4: of dollars from clients' accounts. Alex Murdog issued a statement
9:28
Speaker 4: that says, in part, the murders of my wife and
9:31
Speaker 4: son have caused an incredibly difficult time in my life.
9:35
Speaker 4: I have made a lot of decisions that I truly regret.
9:38
Speaker 4: I am resigning from my law firm and entering rehab
9:41
Speaker 4: after a long battle that has been exasperated by these murders.
9:46
Speaker 4: I am immensely sorry to everyone I've heard, including my family, friends,
9:50
Speaker 4: and colleagues. I ask for prayers as I rehabilitate myself
9:54
Speaker 4: and my relationships.
9:56
Speaker 2: Okay, well, the rehab stunt may work and CA California,
10:01
Speaker 2: it did not work in South Carolina.
10:03
Speaker 1: Murnaud goes down for double murder crime Stories, with Nancy
10:20
Speaker 1: Grace joining us.
10:22
Speaker 2: Barry Hutchinson, senior former law enforcement owner and chief investigator
10:26
Speaker 2: for Barry and Associates Investigative Services.
10:29
Speaker 1: Barry, thank you for being with us. How many times.
10:32
Speaker 2: Have you seen a defendant, a suspect, a person of interest, anyone,
10:39
Speaker 2: whether they're a suspect or not, get in hot water,
10:42
Speaker 2: get in trouble and immediately rush to re happen.
10:46
Speaker 9: Oh, it's pretty much. You know a common play, you
10:49
Speaker 9: know in a defense handbook. You know, to me, it's
10:53
Speaker 9: defense lawyer one oh one deploy and you know they
10:57
Speaker 9: have to you have to understand, you know, a lot
10:59
Speaker 9: of times the defense has to have time, just like
11:04
Speaker 9: investigators have to have time to find out what's going
11:06
Speaker 9: on and formulate the defensive plan for their client. And
11:10
Speaker 9: I think that's exactly what's going on here. I think
11:13
Speaker 9: that he thinks that if he's locked away in rehab,
11:16
Speaker 9: they're not going to have access to him. He's not
11:18
Speaker 9: going to be interrogated. Further, he's not going to have
11:21
Speaker 9: a mediate exposure to law enforcement that they can pry
11:25
Speaker 9: deeper into everything that's going on with this situation and deal.
11:28
Speaker 2: Carson brought it up regarding attorney client confidentiality, physician patient confidentiality.
11:37
Speaker 1: Whatever you say to a psyche or a counselor.
11:40
Speaker 2: In rehab would be protected, but if you're saying it
11:44
Speaker 2: in a group, or you say it to your roommate
11:47
Speaker 2: or your bunkie that is not protected under the Constitution.
11:52
Speaker 2: Joining me now, renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, and opioid
11:58
Speaker 2: treatment expert.
12:00
Speaker 1: He is literally the.
12:03
Speaker 2: One who wrote the book, the author of American Narcan,
12:08
Speaker 2: Nolac Sown and Heroin Fentanyl Associated Mortality. And that's what
12:13
Speaker 2: we've got here, according to what we think will soon
12:17
Speaker 2: be revealed in the toxicology reports in the autopsies of
12:21
Speaker 2: these three dead friends, Doctor William Moroney Joining us, Doctor Moroney,
12:27
Speaker 2: could you analyze for us and please dumb me down
12:30
Speaker 2: for me?
12:30
Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. You're the MD.
12:34
Speaker 2: What you think of the levels that are circulating within
12:39
Speaker 2: these three deceased victims' bodies. I mean, fentanyl doesn't come
12:44
Speaker 2: laced with cocaine and vice versa.
12:48
Speaker 1: What happened in your mind, doctor Moroney?
12:51
Speaker 10: Well, we have an enormous drug problem all over large cities,
12:58
Speaker 10: rural areas, urban centers, and fentanyl, as I indicated in
13:05
Speaker 10: my book in twenty seventeen and eighteen, is huge. People.
13:11
Speaker 10: Government's universities focused on prescription medicines and that was like
13:16
Speaker 10: going bull hunting and shooting rabbits. Everybody has been off target.
13:22
Speaker 10: Fentanyl has creeped into fake pills.
13:26
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, what do you mean by a
13:27
Speaker 1: fake peel?
13:28
Speaker 10: If a drug dealer has people that are afraid of
13:33
Speaker 10: his powders, he says, hey, I got some purposets, Hey
13:37
Speaker 10: I got some oxyconin thirties. Those aren't available anymore. They're fake.
13:42
Speaker 10: They're made in somebody's garage. They've got a pill press.
13:46
Speaker 10: They mix this stuff up in bowls, just like brownies,
13:50
Speaker 10: and they wear masks and they put the powder in
13:53
Speaker 10: the press and they make fake pills that kind of
13:56
Speaker 10: look like pills that you'd get, but real pharmacists and
14:01
Speaker 10: real doctors know the difference. And they're putting sentinel in
14:06
Speaker 10: fake pills. And somebody say, hey have a Viking, and hey,
14:09
Speaker 10: but the Viking is not available, so they're making fake pills.
14:13
Speaker 10: So you have two choices. How did they get cocaine
14:17
Speaker 10: and fentanyl? The first choice is they took them separately,
14:22
Speaker 10: with fake pills and cocaine. The second choice is they
14:27
Speaker 10: did cocaine, knowing that they'd say, hey, you know, we
14:31
Speaker 10: had some beer celebrate, got a little cocaine, And then
14:35
Speaker 10: there was fentanyl in the cocaine, because that's what drug
14:39
Speaker 10: dealers are saying. This is special stuff, man, it's really
14:42
Speaker 10: going to help you out here. But the truth is,
14:44
Speaker 10: and we have an example in Kalamazoo, Michigan, there were
14:48
Speaker 10: eighteen overdoses in one weekend, ten deaths, and everybody died
14:53
Speaker 10: a fentanyl but they went out looking to buy cocaine.
14:58
Speaker 10: And this is a nationwide problem of unintended sentinal overdose
15:04
Speaker 10: deaths for people who've always just done stimulants, they think
15:10
Speaker 10: stilent at the end of the bar at two o'clock
15:13
Speaker 10: in the morning, people do cocaine and they go to
15:16
Speaker 10: private after hours clubs and they dance all night.
15:21
Speaker 8: We have this problem of.
15:22
Speaker 10: Drug consumption and there is no end in sight.
15:28
Speaker 2: Weld On, just a second, Doctor William Roney is telling
15:32
Speaker 2: us about the fentinyl epidemic across our country. But as
15:37
Speaker 2: it relates to this case, Doctor Moroney, according to family members,
15:43
Speaker 2: the victims had a fatal amount of fentel in their
15:48
Speaker 2: systems three times the amount of a lethal fentanyl dose.
15:54
Speaker 1: Again, I'm not asking you to.
15:57
Speaker 2: Address the wider issue fentanyl ODS and the epidemic in
16:02
Speaker 2: our country. I'm talking about this case. What would be
16:08
Speaker 2: a lethal od overdose a fentanyl?
16:12
Speaker 1: What would that look like physically to.
16:15
Speaker 2: Our listeners and viewers if they were to see it,
16:18
Speaker 2: and what would that do to your body? Let's start
16:22
Speaker 2: at the beginning, Okay, starting with a what is a
16:27
Speaker 2: lethal dose a fentanyl for an average size mail, I'm going.
16:33
Speaker 10: To tell you that if you look at grains of
16:36
Speaker 10: salt in an empty t spoon, three or four crystals,
16:42
Speaker 10: three or four grains of salt, we'll knock a seventy
16:50
Speaker 10: kilogram or one hundred and twenty pound man dead in
16:54
Speaker 10: six minutes.
16:55
Speaker 2: Wait, that's almost too much to believe. Let me understand
17:00
Speaker 2: what you just said. Yeah, guys, stay with me please,
17:05
Speaker 2: I've got one of the world's foremost experts on opioid
17:10
Speaker 2: crises and fentanyl, doctor William Roney. I understand that you
17:16
Speaker 2: just said three specs three crystals, like three salt crystals
17:22
Speaker 2: would knock a grown man.
17:24
Speaker 8: Flat in six minutes dead.
17:26
Speaker 2: Why do we even make fentanyl? Why is there even fentanyl?
17:31
Speaker 2: Why is it here? If it only takes three salt
17:35
Speaker 2: crystals worth to kill a grown man, why does it
17:38
Speaker 2: even exist?
17:39
Speaker 10: Because in the drug pipeline, the changeover for profits eliminated
17:46
Speaker 10: heroin because fentanyl is so much more profitable.
17:51
Speaker 1: Fentanyl is cheaper to make than heroin, Is that what
17:54
Speaker 1: you're saying?
17:55
Speaker 10: A thousand times cheaper?
17:57
Speaker 1: Why why is fentanyl so cheap to make? And our
18:00
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical company is still making it?
18:02
Speaker 10: Well, they make it for patches for hospice patients. But
18:07
Speaker 10: the reason why heroin has to be grown in a
18:11
Speaker 10: third world country.
18:13
Speaker 9: Heroin has to.
18:14
Speaker 10: Be cultivated you mean poppies, Yes, then it's sent to
18:18
Speaker 10: France or Mexico and it's processed.
18:22
Speaker 8: This is labor.
18:24
Speaker 2: This is transportation as opposed to like I'm breaking bad
18:29
Speaker 2: out in the desert and a mobile home.
18:32
Speaker 1: You can cook up fentanyl.
18:34
Speaker 10: It's done. We don't make it in America. They make
18:37
Speaker 10: it cheaper somewhere else and then it comes across the border.
18:40
Speaker 2: You're making me realize how easily these guys could have
18:46
Speaker 2: owe deed. Now a lot has been made of the
18:50
Speaker 2: way they were positioned where they were in the backyard.
18:55
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, take a listen to what
18:58
Speaker 2: we've learned from one of the victims, brothers. Take a
19:02
Speaker 2: listen to our cut twenty eight Dave Matt Crime Online.
19:05
Speaker 7: The mystery surrounding the deaths of three men who died
19:08
Speaker 7: outside in the cold while a fourth friend slept for
19:10
Speaker 7: two days in the house just took another odd turn.
19:13
Speaker 7: The brother of one of the deceased men, Ricky Johnson,
19:16
Speaker 7: says the way the men were found has him wondering
19:19
Speaker 7: what happened. One body was discovered on the back porch
19:22
Speaker 7: by police, while the two other deceased men were found
19:25
Speaker 7: in the backyard. According to Jonathan Price, David Harrington was
19:29
Speaker 7: found on a lawn chair on the back porch rather
19:31
Speaker 7: than all three men laying flat. Paints a picture they
19:35
Speaker 7: didn't have from the beginning.
19:36
Speaker 2: You know, renown psychologist joining me from Manhattan, Karen Stark
19:41
Speaker 2: TV radio trauma expert and consultant at Karenstark dot com.
19:46
Speaker 2: That's Karen with a C in case you're trying to
19:48
Speaker 2: get in touch with her. Karen, I learned this really
19:53
Speaker 2: the hard way in court. I managed to save the case,
19:58
Speaker 2: but every detail matters.
20:03
Speaker 1: At first, we heard.
20:04
Speaker 2: That one victim was lying prone on the back porch
20:08
Speaker 2: and the other two were out in the garden. In
20:09
Speaker 2: the backyard. Now, the brother of one of the victims
20:13
Speaker 2: has pointed out that the back porch. Victim was sitting
20:17
Speaker 2: in a lounge chair. Now does it make a difference.
20:21
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I do know this, Karen Stark,
20:24
Speaker 2: Every single detail is important because there were reports the
20:30
Speaker 2: three have been dragged to the backyard and to the
20:33
Speaker 2: back porch. But who would drag a two hundred plus
20:36
Speaker 2: pound man and then prop him up in a lounge chair.
20:40
Speaker 2: I mean, every fact matters, Karen Stark, And right now
20:44
Speaker 2: these families are grappling with the facts.
20:47
Speaker 1: Is this the case of four, possibly five guys.
20:51
Speaker 2: Celebrating, partying, drinking, doing some cocaine it's laced with fentanyl?
20:56
Speaker 1: Can Maroney explain?
20:58
Speaker 2: Cant cocaine lace withyl have that much ventel that it
21:01
Speaker 2: kills you?
21:03
Speaker 1: Was it the reverse?
21:04
Speaker 2: But about the details, Karen, why are they so important
21:08
Speaker 2: when we're grappling with who's telling the truth? What happened
21:11
Speaker 2: to these guys? Was it an accident? Was it more nefarious?
21:16
Speaker 2: Why did this guy rush off? Get a lawyer and
21:18
Speaker 2: check into rehab? Details matter, Karen, start.
21:22
Speaker 11: They certainly do. Nancy, do you remember when we used
21:24
Speaker 11: to sit and listen to people who were in front
21:29
Speaker 11: of the police and they were trying to let them
21:33
Speaker 11: know their stories and giving all kinds of explanations, and
21:37
Speaker 11: we would look for ways that they were saying the
21:40
Speaker 11: smallest thing that didn't jibe with everything else that they said.
21:45
Speaker 8: When people are even talking.
21:47
Speaker 11: To therapists like me, you really want to note every
21:51
Speaker 11: single specific fact so you can help them figure out
21:56
Speaker 11: their lives, make sense of things that have happened to them.
22:00
Speaker 11: And in this case, it's just such a strange story.
22:04
Speaker 11: We all have to be detected trying to put together
22:07
Speaker 11: how could this possibly have happened. Now there's stentanel.
22:11
Speaker 9: In the cocaine.
22:12
Speaker 11: We know that many people have died from that. That
22:15
Speaker 11: makes a huge difference. So yes, the details really do
22:19
Speaker 11: mat or we've known that for years.
22:22
Speaker 2: Doctor William Moroney jumping off what Karen Stark has just said,
22:25
Speaker 2: and remember to the rest of the panel, jump in
22:27
Speaker 2: if you have any thought on this. You're you're a
22:31
Speaker 2: think tank, you're the brain Trust, so please jump in,
22:34
Speaker 2: doctor Moroney.
22:35
Speaker 1: Would it be sentinel.
22:37
Speaker 2: Mixed in with cocaine or cocaine mixed in with ventanyl
22:40
Speaker 2: And do they.
22:40
Speaker 1: Look the same.
22:41
Speaker 10: You can't tell the difference as far as the size
22:44
Speaker 10: of the powder or the color, but it would always
22:47
Speaker 10: be sentinel mixed in the cocaine, because cocaine by itself
22:54
Speaker 10: is not fatal, the majority of it being cocaine, it's
23:01
Speaker 10: the vehicle now, it's what's used to deliver it. And
23:06
Speaker 10: putting cocaine in fentanyl would mean that the volume of
23:12
Speaker 10: fentanyl would have to be like cut. Nobody's going to
23:17
Speaker 10: do that. They sneak this stuff in and tell you
23:19
Speaker 10: it's really good cocaine. There's no drug dealer that's going
23:24
Speaker 10: to say I've got some really good fentanyl for you,
23:27
Speaker 10: because everybody scared popeless of it.
23:30
Speaker 8: Nobody you're saying that even if you tasted it could
23:36
Speaker 8: kill you, which is the traditional way of besting cocaine.
23:40
Speaker 10: Yes, yes, but.
23:44
Speaker 8: Snorted and and that.
23:48
Speaker 10: These people, I would bet they're not regular.
23:54
Speaker 11: And I'm pretty sure that you could shoot a cocaine.
23:57
Speaker 11: You don't just snort it and crack is off a
24:01
Speaker 11: cocaine and that's lit up.
24:03
Speaker 1: So how would it appear, doctor William Moroney.
24:05
Speaker 10: It's going to look like powder sugar, and it's in
24:09
Speaker 10: small plastic square packets that fold over, and people will
24:15
Speaker 10: put it in spoons and put it in their nose.
24:19
Speaker 10: People that want to get high with cocaine. We've been
24:22
Speaker 10: injecting cocaine for decades, but traditionally, good old boys football fans,
24:30
Speaker 10: big tough guys, they snort this stuff while they're drinking.
24:34
Speaker 10: It would be interesting to see what's the blood alcohol
24:37
Speaker 10: level with this, because then it'll tell you that it's
24:40
Speaker 10: a casual timeline, a chronological drug delivery that begins with alcohol,
24:47
Speaker 10: goes to cocaine. And surprisingly, there's fentanyl in the cocaine.
24:52
Speaker 10: But we've seen this all across America. We've seen fentyl
24:56
Speaker 10: in cocaine for almost a decade in New York, Boston, Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago,
25:04
Speaker 10: and people are afraid of it. That's why they make
25:07
Speaker 10: fake pills.
25:08
Speaker 2: It would also be very interesting Barry Hutchiness, your former
25:12
Speaker 2: l and owner of Buried Associates Investigative Services. It would
25:17
Speaker 2: also be interesting to find out if cops went into
25:20
Speaker 2: the home and processed it with drug dogs a K
25:23
Speaker 2: nine that could actually smell. Hey, is there are were
25:27
Speaker 2: there lines of coke on the dining room table, or
25:31
Speaker 2: on the coffee table, or on a plate or on
25:33
Speaker 2: any surface in that home?
25:35
Speaker 9: Right nature that's correct. You know one thing that the
25:38
Speaker 9: public needs to understand. I'm sure you understand this being
25:42
Speaker 9: a former prosecutor. In regards to a crime scene, there's
25:46
Speaker 9: a rule that's very prevalent, and that is that something
25:49
Speaker 9: is always left at a crime scene and something that's
25:52
Speaker 9: always taken away from a crime scene. Now that could
25:55
Speaker 9: be trace evidence, it could be physical evidence. So I
25:59
Speaker 9: think certain that a drug dog could have been used.
26:03
Speaker 9: I haven't heard that a drug dog.
26:05
Speaker 8: Could have been used.
26:07
Speaker 9: And I don't know what kind of search even took
26:09
Speaker 9: place at the house because that hasn't been made public
26:12
Speaker 9: here that I know was. But certainly I think that
26:17
Speaker 9: the Kansas City Police Department in the Platt County Prosecutor's
26:21
Speaker 9: office are looking at every angle as far as searching everything.
26:24
Speaker 9: And you touched on something earlier. I think it's really
26:26
Speaker 9: important as well. Getting back to the defense lawyer and
26:30
Speaker 9: this subject moving out of the house as the homeowner
26:33
Speaker 9: right away, My personal belief is is that that's done
26:38
Speaker 9: deliberately so that they can come back later and say
26:41
Speaker 9: that if something is recovered in the house after the fact,
26:44
Speaker 9: from like this state forward, that they can the fact
26:49
Speaker 9: of this guy moving out, and they can you know,
26:53
Speaker 9: that can be argued to a jury to where they
26:55
Speaker 9: could say, you know, they only need one person to
26:58
Speaker 9: not believe the prosecution story, you know, as to what happened.
27:03
Speaker 9: And so I think that they're deliberately putting things in
27:06
Speaker 9: place here that could stumble a jury, you know, later on,
27:11
Speaker 9: in anticipation of prosecution of this case.
27:15
Speaker 2: And moving out so quickly Lockstock and Barrel gets rid
27:19
Speaker 2: of who knows how much evidence. And of course, doctor Moroney,
27:23
Speaker 2: when you put dishes in the dishwasher and turn it on,
27:25
Speaker 2: there goes all the evidence off those plates or whatever
27:29
Speaker 2: surface was being used, whatever you tinsle a bowl, a plate,
27:32
Speaker 2: a saucer.
27:33
Speaker 8: Why or a three guys outside? Is something all do
27:37
Speaker 8: something with thermogenesis in the body making those want to
27:42
Speaker 8: be cooler. I don't know the answer to that question,
27:45
Speaker 8: but there's a reason they were all outside when they died.
27:48
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Del Carson, you're exactly correct.
27:52
Speaker 1: What does the temperature have to do with it? Well,
27:54
Speaker 1: it was not freezing, listen.
27:56
Speaker 4: David Harrington's father is also challenging the idea that the
28:00
Speaker 4: men froze to death. Daily Mail reports John Harrington saying,
28:04
Speaker 4: I don't think it's very likely they froze to death,
28:07
Speaker 4: like some people are saying it just wasn't cold enough.
28:10
Speaker 4: The temperature for Kansas City late in the night of Sunday,
28:14
Speaker 4: January seven was around thirty six degrees and the temp
28:18
Speaker 4: remained above freezing all day Monday, January eighth. Tuesday January
28:23
Speaker 4: nine was the coldest day, when it was twenty six
28:26
Speaker 4: degrees by two pm and twenty at ten pm. The
28:30
Speaker 4: first thirty six hours of the mystery, the temp is
28:33
Speaker 4: at or above freezing, and it is only the last
28:36
Speaker 4: twelve hours where it gets really cold.
28:39
Speaker 2: But that is a common misconception that the temp has
28:43
Speaker 2: to be freezing for a person to freeze to death.
28:47
Speaker 2: You don't freeze to death. It's not like putting a
28:49
Speaker 2: popsigle in the freezer. You get hypothermia and you die
28:54
Speaker 2: basically from exposure to cold temps. But what were you saying,
28:57
Speaker 2: Mary Hudginson, following up on what deal Carson brought one of.
29:00
Speaker 9: The big things. I think that's going to be one
29:04
Speaker 9: of the key turning points of the investigation. It's going
29:06
Speaker 9: to be the toxicology report, and you know, with everything
29:10
Speaker 9: included in it, a question that I would have is,
29:13
Speaker 9: you know, why were these guys outside in the very
29:17
Speaker 9: early morning hours when this happened. And to me, one
29:22
Speaker 9: thing stands out. They would be outside because they were
29:26
Speaker 9: out there smoking either cigarettes or marijuana, because this was
29:30
Speaker 9: a rented home and probably on the lease it says
29:34
Speaker 9: that they're not allowed to smoke in the house, so
29:37
Speaker 9: that would explain why they were outside at that point. Now,
29:39
Speaker 9: whether the drugs were ingested through marijuana or the cocaine
29:43
Speaker 9: or both is yet to be seen, but I think
29:47
Speaker 9: that's going to play a key part in the discovery
29:50
Speaker 9: process of all the evidence involved. That's going to help
29:53
Speaker 9: narrow down and shake through the funnel, if you will,
29:57
Speaker 9: the key elements of the case coupled back with you
30:00
Speaker 9: spoke of earlier this week, Nancy, with the phone records
30:03
Speaker 9: of every single person that were involved in being there
30:07
Speaker 9: that night, I think that's going to be a key element.
30:10
Speaker 9: And you know, addressing the aspect of somebody being drug
30:15
Speaker 9: you know, or dragged rather to the outside area, I
30:21
Speaker 9: don't see that happening because one of the guys, at
30:24
Speaker 9: least not by one person anyway, because it's my understanding
30:26
Speaker 9: that one of the one of the victims involved was
30:29
Speaker 9: an approximation of three hundred pounds and that is a
30:33
Speaker 9: lot of weight that's not assisting you to be dragged anywhere.
30:38
Speaker 9: I mean, if you go to the police academy, you know,
30:41
Speaker 9: one of the tests you have to take in the
30:42
Speaker 9: police academy to even get into the police academy is
30:44
Speaker 9: the dummy drag. And that dummy drag is one hundred
30:47
Speaker 9: and sixty pound dummy, but it's dead weight and it
30:50
Speaker 9: feels like it weighs five hundred pounds when you grab
30:53
Speaker 9: a hold of it. So I don't think that one
30:55
Speaker 9: person could have drugged that individual, any individual that was
30:59
Speaker 9: a victim at night outside without the help of somebody else.
31:03
Speaker 9: So I think that's going to be a key element
31:04
Speaker 9: also that's going to be investigating.
31:20
Speaker 2: Time stories with Nancy Grace to you, doctor William Moroney,
31:25
Speaker 2: expert in not only fentanyl but all sorts of opioid
31:31
Speaker 2: related deaths and studies of it. Doctor Moroney, what do
31:35
Speaker 2: you make of what we're saying regarding del Carson's question,
31:40
Speaker 2: is there's something about fentanyl that makes you hot?
31:44
Speaker 1: Would they want to go outside in those.
31:46
Speaker 2: Kind of temperatures and also address the issue of freezing.
31:50
Speaker 10: Well, I agree that there's no way anybody froze there.
31:53
Speaker 10: I lived in Kansas City for twelve years. It gets
31:56
Speaker 10: cold a little bit, but it's warmer during the day
31:58
Speaker 10: and it's not as cold as that's off the table.
32:02
Speaker 10: But everybody that gets real close to a fentinel overdose,
32:06
Speaker 10: and I see non fatal overdoses, they come in, they
32:10
Speaker 10: talk to me, and they enter into treatment in my clinic.
32:13
Speaker 10: So they're non fatal overdoses. And then I see the
32:16
Speaker 10: fatal overdoses when we go to autopsy and we work
32:19
Speaker 10: with the pathologists and the police try to reconstruct it.
32:24
Speaker 10: Everybody that's around a fatal overdose tries to get them
32:29
Speaker 10: cold air. And if you feel yourself falling out, you
32:35
Speaker 10: look for cold.
32:36
Speaker 9: Fresh air.
32:38
Speaker 10: So they could have been in the house, and it
32:41
Speaker 10: sounds good that they would have went out to smoke,
32:43
Speaker 10: but if they would have felt the fentinel kicking in,
32:46
Speaker 10: they would have said, you know, I need some fresh air.
32:49
Speaker 10: Kind of like when you're in that bar all night
32:51
Speaker 10: long and it's smoky and it's hot and you had
32:54
Speaker 10: a little too much of drink. You step outside that
32:56
Speaker 10: cold air, it straightens you up right away. When you're
33:00
Speaker 10: drinking alcohol, it does not straighten you up. With a fentanyl,
33:04
Speaker 10: but you seek something cold, and if you think you're
33:08
Speaker 10: going to fall out, you sit down, you look for
33:11
Speaker 10: a chair, you lean up against the car. And sometimes
33:16
Speaker 10: on death scenes and crime scenes, the people around the
33:20
Speaker 10: person that's overdosing throw them in a cold shower.
33:25
Speaker 8: So that's what people seek.
33:27
Speaker 10: That is the other reason why they would have been outside.
33:30
Speaker 10: They felt they were going to fall out. They started
33:34
Speaker 10: feeling sleepy, they couldn't think they were drooling. There it
33:39
Speaker 10: was difficult to breathe, So you step outside to get
33:43
Speaker 10: something to straighten up before you fall out.
33:47
Speaker 2: I mean, doctor Maroney, you and I have talked about
33:49
Speaker 2: this one hundred times before, but it's elementary. It was
33:53
Speaker 2: even in The Wizard of Oz. Remember when Dorothy fell
33:57
Speaker 2: asleep right in the poppy field.
34:02
Speaker 10: Snow he made herself comfortable, snow.
34:04
Speaker 1: Had to wake her up. The cold woke her up.
34:08
Speaker 1: That's not just a kid's story.
34:09
Speaker 10: They see the gold, the straighten up.
34:12
Speaker 2: So was the culprit is the guilty culprit in the
34:16
Speaker 2: deaths of three Kansas City chiefs, fans, all three best friends,
34:21
Speaker 2: all too common a fentanyl O D dig here, Doctor
34:26
Speaker 2: William Maroney, trust me if he says it about fentanyl
34:30
Speaker 2: or opioids.
34:31
Speaker 1: It's right that.
34:33
Speaker 2: Three grains like salt, grains of salt are enough to
34:40
Speaker 2: kill a grown man.
34:43
Speaker 1: Is that the.
34:45
Speaker 2: Culprit, the all too common culprit the killer in America
34:50
Speaker 2: and in this case, but we've got another problem. Take
34:54
Speaker 2: a listen to Nicole parton Crime Online, Cut three two.
34:57
Speaker 4: Caleb mcginney says his cousin Clayton mcginney was his best friend.
35:01
Speaker 4: Caleb claims Jordan Willis has been known since high school
35:05
Speaker 4: as the chemist who would make drugs for the specific
35:08
Speaker 4: needs of the individual. Mcginny also says that Ricky Johnson,
35:13
Speaker 4: Clayton mcginney, and David Harrington were all best friends. They
35:17
Speaker 4: all knew Jordan Willis from high school, but from a
35:20
Speaker 4: close knit, quote friendship standpoint, Jordan Willis was kind of
35:25
Speaker 4: off to the side.
35:26
Speaker 2: Does anybody remember the incredibly popular weekly program All in
35:32
Speaker 2: the Family. The star was Archie Bunker in real life
35:36
Speaker 2: Carol O'Connor. He went head to head in court with
35:41
Speaker 2: his son's drug supplier. His son died of an overdose.
35:46
Speaker 1: And Carol O'Connor won.
35:49
Speaker 2: So, based on what we're hearing from Nicole partner at
35:51
Speaker 2: crime online dot Com. Is their culpability on behalf of
35:57
Speaker 2: the friend slash co owner? Did he personally mix the
36:03
Speaker 2: drugs for his friends?
36:05
Speaker 1: Did he know or not know fentanyl was involved?
36:09
Speaker 2: The fact that all three of them outside had fentanyl
36:14
Speaker 2: in their system is no coincidence. What about the friend
36:18
Speaker 2: slash homeowner? Did he have fentanyl or cocaine in his system?
36:22
Speaker 2: Was he even tested? Those are answers we don't know.
36:27
Speaker 2: But to high profile lawyer joining us out of Jacksonville,
36:31
Speaker 2: Dale Carson, would he be responsible if he personally mixed
36:36
Speaker 2: the drugs?
36:37
Speaker 8: There's no question. If they find the chemical sceilarity between
36:41
Speaker 8: the drugs that are laying around in that house somewhere
36:45
Speaker 8: and the drugs that are on the clothing or the
36:48
Speaker 8: face of these individuals who died, he's definitely chargeable. And
36:52
Speaker 8: as I said in Florida which now deafinality charged. So
36:56
Speaker 8: if they find the supplier anywhere, that individual's likely retarded
37:01
Speaker 8: whose manslaught on other states, possibly second degree murder.
37:05
Speaker 2: Many family members of the three victims are hearing.
37:10
Speaker 1: None of it.
37:11
Speaker 7: Listen Harrington's girlfriend of seventeen years flat out says David
37:16
Speaker 7: was murdered. Those three guys were murdered. The Kansas City
37:19
Speaker 7: Police said from the very beginning the deaths are not
37:22
Speaker 7: being investigated as a homicide, but Lori Cruz says her
37:26
Speaker 7: boyfriend of seventeen years did not use drugs and that
37:29
Speaker 7: he was murdered.
37:30
Speaker 5: Since early in the investigation, police have said the case
37:33
Speaker 5: is not being investigative's foul play, but some of the
37:36
Speaker 5: loved ones of the deceased believe Willis played a role
37:39
Speaker 5: in their deaths. John Harrington, father of David Harrington, whose
37:43
Speaker 5: body was found on the open porch, said that he
37:46
Speaker 5: and David's mother both are convinced that Jordan Willis played
37:49
Speaker 5: a part in the deaths.
37:50
Speaker 2: With conflicting reports about what really happened that night. To you,
37:55
Speaker 2: doctor William Roney, can you assume that if there was
38:02
Speaker 2: a report indicating three times the level of a deadly
38:07
Speaker 2: dos to fentanyl, which really wouldn't be that much according
38:10
Speaker 2: to you, it'd be like nine grams of sault would
38:14
Speaker 2: that be considered the coeod cause of death one hundred percent?
38:18
Speaker 10: When we look at toxicology, we look at the references
38:23
Speaker 10: and unless we have any other history to contradict that,
38:29
Speaker 10: like corneraertor disease or asthma sentinels At the top of
38:33
Speaker 10: the list. Fentinyl is the number one killer between the
38:37
Speaker 10: age of nineteen and fifty in Americans with drug toxicity deaths.
38:45
Speaker 10: And the other thing is when we look at the ratio.
38:47
Speaker 10: I know I'm going to talk science here, it's a
38:49
Speaker 10: little bit of medicine.
38:50
Speaker 9: Forgive me.
38:51
Speaker 10: When you look at the ratio of fentinyl versus nor fentinyl,
38:56
Speaker 10: the first metabolite. If the fentanyl is out there in
39:00
Speaker 10: a ten to one ratio, then these guys got the
39:04
Speaker 10: drug and died within minutes.
39:08
Speaker 1: But why not the homeowner? Why not the friends?
39:11
Speaker 10: Drug dealers don't like doing their own drugs, They don't
39:14
Speaker 10: make money doing that. Then this is all about the
39:18
Speaker 10: economies of scale. The more he has to sell, we
39:23
Speaker 10: not only have to look at the house, look at
39:25
Speaker 10: the garbage, look at what he's had out there, Look
39:28
Speaker 10: at the garage, look at the basement. And other people
39:31
Speaker 10: will come out and talk about this person either selling
39:35
Speaker 10: cocaine and they've had fentanyl but they didn't die, or
39:39
Speaker 10: he's pressing fraudulent tablets that are to look like OxyContin,
39:45
Speaker 10: but they're really fentanyl. If you look back at that ratio,
39:50
Speaker 10: the ratio or the parent compound to the metaboli will
39:53
Speaker 10: tell you how fast they died. It's going to be
39:58
Speaker 10: critical to the other problem to you.
40:00
Speaker 2: Barry Hutchinson Senior, Karen Stark and Del Carson or all
40:04
Speaker 2: the let me just say euphemistically, conflicting statements inconsistent statements,
40:11
Speaker 2: also known as lies. That the homeowner slash friend has
40:15
Speaker 2: told that there wasn't a fifth person there, and then
40:18
Speaker 2: the fifth person emerges that his dogs were at his
40:22
Speaker 2: dad's house. That's important because in almost three days, when
40:25
Speaker 2: you have to take dogs outside, the fifth friend says, no,
40:29
Speaker 2: they were there at midnight the night of the death.
40:32
Speaker 2: It just goes on and on. Did the guys leave
40:35
Speaker 2: and come back? Were they there the whole time? Were
40:37
Speaker 2: they dragged outside? The doors were locked, the doors were unlocked.
40:40
Speaker 2: I mean, those are just some of the inconsistent reports
40:47
Speaker 2: given by the friend slash homeowner.
40:50
Speaker 1: That doesn't look good, Barry.
40:51
Speaker 2: Hutchinson Senior, Because if this is just a horrible accident
40:56
Speaker 2: and the only culprit is fifth andel, then.
41:00
Speaker 8: Why why Well, I think that.
41:04
Speaker 9: This individual that was the homeowner there, I think that
41:07
Speaker 9: he realizes that the accusatory finger is going to be
41:11
Speaker 9: pointed to him. I think that he's smart enough to
41:14
Speaker 9: understand that. I think he's trying to come up with
41:17
Speaker 9: some kind of, you know, plausible deniability of being involved.
41:21
Speaker 9: I think that he's trying to make up a story that, hey,
41:24
Speaker 9: it wasn't me, it wasn't this, it wasn't that. But
41:27
Speaker 9: there's so much there's so many statements and so many
41:31
Speaker 9: things that are really starting to point the finger towards him.
41:34
Speaker 9: It's becoming insurmountable.
41:36
Speaker 2: And you know, hold on, hold on, I was just
41:40
Speaker 2: going to go to you, Dell and care and start
41:42
Speaker 2: del Carson. That's what I love about trying multiple defends
41:46
Speaker 2: at the same time. They all start doing this at trial,
41:49
Speaker 2: pointing at each other. You got that fifth friend who
41:53
Speaker 2: many of speculator. Oh he's the dope dealer.
41:55
Speaker 1: We don't know that.
41:56
Speaker 2: I don't know where that came from, but it's out
41:58
Speaker 2: there and you got him. And then you have the
42:01
Speaker 2: friends slash homeowner. One of them knows what happened, and
42:05
Speaker 2: pretty soon, I put it, they're going to start blaming
42:07
Speaker 2: each other.
42:08
Speaker 8: Well, of course, but it's in a rural area which
42:11
Speaker 8: manufacturers of narcotics like to be in the rural areas.
42:16
Speaker 8: So if it was manufacturing in the house, they're gonna
42:18
Speaker 8: find the residue.
42:20
Speaker 2: Are you calling Kansas City, Missouri a rural area.
42:23
Speaker 8: I'm calling where that house is a rural area.
42:26
Speaker 1: Is that true, Gray Smith?
42:28
Speaker 12: I wouldn't call it a rural area. It is probably
42:32
Speaker 12: twenty five minutes from downtown, but it's still very populated.
42:36
Speaker 12: It's one of the area is very nice. Truthfully, there's
42:40
Speaker 12: a huge shopping center just near.
42:43
Speaker 1: It, so so it's more suburban.
42:44
Speaker 12: It is out on the outskirts of town, but it's
42:47
Speaker 12: not I wouldn't call it rule nacy.
42:50
Speaker 9: That area is what's commonly known to people in the
42:53
Speaker 9: Kansas City area as the north Land, and it's an
42:57
Speaker 9: area that's heavily populated with law yards, neighborhoods. You know.
43:03
Speaker 9: The street that is directly to the backyard of this
43:06
Speaker 9: of this residence where this occurred is a four lane
43:09
Speaker 9: highway called Barry Road. It's a very very populated area,
43:14
Speaker 9: a lot of heavy traffic area right there. So it's
43:18
Speaker 9: not a rural setting per se. But I do understand
43:21
Speaker 9: what he's trying to get to is that, you know,
43:23
Speaker 9: in the real areas. A lot of that goes on
43:26
Speaker 9: because it's easily undetected.
43:29
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I agree with you, Barry Hudg juston
43:31
Speaker 2: every time we hear about a mobile home blowing up
43:34
Speaker 2: or a house in the rural area just blowing up,
43:36
Speaker 2: well they're cooking up some myth.
43:38
Speaker 1: So deal, Carson, you got that rural part all wrong.
43:41
Speaker 1: But you want to just step back in punt.
43:43
Speaker 8: No, no, when they rent housers, this is the homeowner
43:47
Speaker 8: doesn't own this house. He's not the suspect. He's not
43:50
Speaker 8: the one who's in rehab.
43:52
Speaker 2: Del Carson, You're right, we're calling him the home owner,
43:55
Speaker 2: but he was a home renter.
43:57
Speaker 1: And how does that factor into your analysis.
43:59
Speaker 8: Well, people who are doing criminal things that are not
44:03
Speaker 8: likely to do it in their own backyard, meeting their
44:06
Speaker 8: own home, and so they read these houses. I mean,
44:09
Speaker 8: we frequently call them trap houses. I don't know whether
44:13
Speaker 8: this is a trap house because I haven't been out there,
44:16
Speaker 8: but certainly that's how narcotics are managed, so that the
44:20
Speaker 8: individual who owns the house typically is non involved, doesn't
44:24
Speaker 8: know anything about it.
44:25
Speaker 2: So Karen Starr Psychologists joining us out of Manhattan way
44:29
Speaker 2: in on.
44:29
Speaker 11: This well, Nancy. What I was going to talk about
44:32
Speaker 11: was the fact that the person who was renting, who's
44:35
Speaker 11: now in rehab, was there for days and was not
44:39
Speaker 11: answering any calls when these three guys disappeared. I also
44:45
Speaker 11: want to say something about the condition they were in,
44:48
Speaker 11: because if they were that high and really starting to
44:52
Speaker 11: get fit, they're not making sense what they're doing, so
44:56
Speaker 11: they'd go outside, they wouldn't realize to come back inside
44:59
Speaker 11: the it was freezing coal. But the whole idea that
45:03
Speaker 11: he wasn't responding this person who was renting, that he
45:07
Speaker 11: was ignoring the fact that there were bodies out there,
45:11
Speaker 11: that he was ignoring the family is so suspicious that
45:15
Speaker 11: I haven't heard anything like that.
45:17
Speaker 8: That's just crazy.
45:19
Speaker 1: Who is the culprit?
45:21
Speaker 2: And every tragic In every tragedy, there's not always a
45:26
Speaker 2: criminal charge?
45:29
Speaker 1: Is there one? Here? We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,