Latest / Monero Talk / Strengthening Monero Amid Attacks – With Xenu of Anti Moonboy News | EPI 359

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Strengthening Monero Amid Attacks – With Xenu of Anti Moonboy News | EPI 359 · Monero Talk

• Doug Alrighty, Zeno, what's up, man? Hey, Doug, what's going on? Just enjoying the shit show, you know, I said it on Monerotopia, I can't, I don't know if it's just Major Cope, but I enjoy these moments, these days, you know, even though they are real threats, I don't know, I enjoy the fight, I enjoy the hard times. Xenu Yeah, man, I'm excited. I'm pumped up. It sucks. Don't get me wrong. But it's something, you know, it's something to wake up to something that gives me life, you know. Doug So, I mean, how serious do you think we should be taking this cubic fiasco, this cubic attack, these reorgs? Xenu Oh, it's definitely serious now and they clearly do have a decent amount of hash rate For what they were able to accomplish last night. It was actually quite serious so basically in the media you're hearing a lot of Things about how cubic had a successful 51% attack to be clear They they probably do not have 51% of the hash rate because the attack would have been way worse if they did Nonetheless, though, they were successfully selfish mining last night and in doing so they were able to complete a seven block reorg as well as two six block reorgs Which basically means they were able to mine selfishly on their own their own string of blocks and The other blocks that were mined during that period were neglected and they took over as the dominant chain So it is definitely a serious thing as they are able to do that And the only way they would be able to accomplish something like that is if they were to have enough hash rate However, the good news is we can still fight back on this, you know, it's not like this is the end of the world or anything and You know looking forward next Thursday. We have their next 24-hour marathon So when that comes up, it'll be really really crucial for the community to step up turn on the miners maybe even rent hash rate and you know put up a fight because you know having another episode like this would not be good and frankly If it gets worse, we'd be losing so we don't want that to happen Doug Why are they so, I don't understand that part. They're doing it in like marathons and announcing them beforehand, I guess just to show so they can prove that it's them and whatnot, or at least alleged that it's them. Xenu they're trying to build speculative hype. It's working because everyone's talking about it, but it's kind of like this feedback loop where essentially they are announcing what they're doing, and if they don't do it, they lie and make up some excuse. And if they do do it, they exaggerate it. And unfortunately, we do have to give it attention now, before we were kind of just hand waving it away and downplaying it. But now that they're actually selfish mining and being successful, it's actually quite concerning because if they are able to repeatedly increase the extent of what they're accomplishing, it does prove their point that they are gaining hash rate. And that is the problem here. Doug And what's your prediction? I mean, do you think they've kind of peaked or now? I mean, they've obviously had like a new wave now of, you know, realization promotion, right? Like, or adoption, you could even call it like because of what happened today, they were claiming that they successfully 51% attacked, media outlets picked it up, you know, all these big accounts on Twitter, we're, you know, retweeting it, making comments, Bitcoin maxis were chiming in. So it feels like they achieved what they wanted to achieve in terms of getting publicity. So do you think that leads to a stronger wave of attack for this next round? Xenu Well, if anything, I think it leads to a stronger counter attack by us. I mean, I think everyone's kind of aware of this issue now. And, you know, myself included, like I've been downplaying this because it's it's really been a nothing burger so far, but now they actually are doing reorgs. Um, and also earlier this week, they are printing empty blocks, which is not good. So, you know, they're, they're definitely doing a lot of things, um, against Monero right now, and, um, again, like the reorg is serious mostly because it opens up the opportunity for somebody to double spend. Now, I don't think they're going to double spend because we would know who's doing it, right? And they are a public entity. So like, they wouldn't be able to like steal Monero from an exchange, right? But it's still like negative for the greater purpose of like decentralization. And frankly, if, if, you know, we're not able to, you know, fight back, it shows that random X has failed, which is really unfortunate, but this kind of just the reality of the situation. So, you know, in the time being, like we have to make the best of the situation and, you know, really rally the troops. Um, you know, cubics attack relies completely on marketing, right? So, um, you know, like, why aren't they showing us their actual hash rate? You know, they're, they're hiding everything. They're like being like mysterious with their stealth mining. You know, they, they, they're broadcasting the net hash as if that's the actual current hash rate, but the net hash is actually just the average of the hash rate over the past 24 hours. And because they're mining half the time, the, the actual hash rate's probably 20 or 30% higher than what the net hash is. It's all very weird. And like they're, they're not telling the truth half the time. So they're unreliable, but what we can see though, is these reorgs, we can see them printing, um, empty blocks and that in and of itself is serious. Um, however, if we are able again to, you know, push back, have a strong community counter reaction, we can actually, you know, flip this in the other way and say like, Hey, you, you woke up, you, you know, you, you hit the hornet's nest, we're here. Right. And, uh, we're not going to go down, you know, that easily. And, uh, you know, having a counter reaction here would be, um, would be fantastic. So I don't really think it's over yet. I'm definitely not doom and gloom on anything. Um, however, if we like go into the next couple of marathon days and we don't have a good showing, then yeah, it's not looking good. I'll be completely honest with you. I mean, we. Doug We should highlight the fact that this has happened on other cryptos. We've seen reorgs. I feel like with this, though, they've just done a good job of publicizing it and making it seem like it's a really bad thing. I remember my first spook with crypto when I was first getting into Bitcoin, not really understanding it, be like, oh my God, this thing is decentralized, hearing about 51% attacks for the first time. And then Peter Todd, I remember putting on Reddit up a post because I forget the name of the pool that had gotten over like 51% of the of the hashing power at the time. This isn't like 2015 or something. And I was like, oh my God, the experiment is over. Like I'm out. And I like, you know, I, you know, I listened to Peter Todd, I came back, but like I was spooked out. I was like, holy, you know, the whole thing is going to fail. It's a dead. You know, if you could 51% attack, it's over. The pool didn't end up, you know, utilizing their power in any malicious way. They actually just tried to like work with the community and like they they basically force people off their pool. So we didn't see anything. But my point is, we've seen examples of this. Obviously, that one ended up not being a bad one. But I mean, we've seen examples of reorgs, cryptos, even getting like fully 51% attacked. And yeah, as much as it's it's something that we wouldn't want to happen, and we should have a network that doesn't doesn't allow it to happen. It does. And it doesn't necessarily mean like the story's over exactly what you agree to that. Xenu 100% like it's not like this is the end of Monero and the silver lining here is like if we're not able to survive a Attack from some, you know Ponzi-nomics deflationary AI cash graph or whatever cubic is and we probably aren't ready for the for the you know The this the state actors or whatever coming after us. You know what I mean? like it's this is like kind of like a really good stress test for us and and What's really great too is we're starting to get you know, the Monero research lab, you know Investigating some ways to strengthen this, you know part of Monero, you know to be honest with you minor decentralization has been Probably the second biggest weak point of Monero like really over the past like five or so years Ring signatures, you know, obviously are the worst but like we've had this issue with mine XMR They were at 50% or whatever We had a support XMR. They've been frequently over 40% But you know the community has kind of been lulled into this like they're not going to do anything kind of attitude But now we have a pool that hasn't even gotten that high based on the data that we have They're probably only around 30 35 percent But because they're actively doing selfish mining they are able to actually accomplish like negative things So, you know again silver lining we're gonna use this to improve Short-term, there's probably gonna be some pain We've actually kind of already experienced it with the price dump, you know, like I mean that doesn't even faze me Maybe that's just me. But like I said, all right. Well Doug Well, I mean, you know, in the Bitcoin story, when that happened in 2015 or number one, I mean, that was that was a great opportunity to scoop up. I mean, a lot of people got scared in that moment. Oh, yeah. It's actually this actually feels similar. And do you think maybe that's part of what's happening here? You know, a lot of people trying to figure that out. What's really good? Is this just like cubic? They just figured out how to run a scam or is there something more nefarious and deeper? It's like truly is an attack on Monero. They want to hurt Monero and maybe it's state actors. Maybe it's in concert with some of the other stuff we're seeing out there. Trade over went down, you know, yes, the usual, right? There's a lot a lot. It's seemingly like a lot of things that are happening to Monero all at once. Is this something that just like naturally arose? Somebody saw an opportunity here. They came up with some scam. They're like, oh, and if I do it on Monero, get media. I mean, it's very well thought out, right? Like, oh, yeah, it's a pretty simple thing. What they're doing at the end of the day, it really is just for marketing. And it's a way to kind of pump pump their coin, bring attention to it. And then they can self fund it by by through the pumping of their coin. But is it is it just some dude who came up with some like way to like some scam or is it like somebody who's like coming up with a way to hurt Monero? Xenu Yeah, I just think it's like a weaponized moon boy attack, like you're taking you're taking a pumping, pumping garbage, but you're applying mining to it. And you just throw it over a project that has legitimacy like Monero. And it actually has really highlighted a problem with Monero that honestly, I wasn't even really considering. But that's the profitability of the mining. I think, you know, we've kind of just taken it for granted that people just mine Monero just to mine it. And that's why we're still in this, like people are, you know, just mining Monero for their own, you know, like beliefs and ideals. But it does make sense though, like if you've been mining Monero for a while, like you're not really seeing much profit, like it's very hard to make a profit off of it. So that's like one of the main, like short term things that we can do to help the mining network is to boost transaction fees. This is what I'm seeing on GitHub. I think it's pretty likely that this is going to be the way that we're Doug We're going to one of the solutions boost transaction. Xenu I think that is the easiest way to kind of put a band-aid on this for now, because yeah, the mining profitability just is not good, and it's been that way for a while, and so essentially what you're doing is you're taking that, but then you're putting in this kind of pumponomics coin over it, and it has been very successful. So the attack is actually very well thought out. It's worked pretty well. Gotta give them credit. Doug And just boosting transaction fees, does that really solve the problem? Because they'll be benefiting from that as well, because their mining pool is going to be making more money off of the blocks that they mined in Monero. Xenu the idea is that it will overall make Monero more profitable to mine, so therefore there will be just more people who want to mine Monero. That's kind of like... Doug The problem is when they go then to mine it, it's like, all right, I can mine it, or I could all mine it and get cubic at the same time. I feel like. Xenu You're not wrong, Doug. I'm just saying, like, in general, though, this is the idea where, like, we're trying to just make it more profitable. Doug And no, which I think is the thing, but I feel like that's not the solution to this particular problem. I mean, I feel like if Cubic was framed differently, if they were doing everything they're doing, but it wasn't, ah, we're evil, then we're trying to 51% attack you. If it was just like, hey, we're this thing, we have this cool, useful proof of work, we're into doing AI stuff, and we also love Monero, and it was framed that way, and there was no talk of them trying to figure out anything, and they were just a pool that was growing and growing. We would be like cheering them on right now. We'd be like, yeah, we need more money, and then maybe at some point they'd be like, oh, we're getting too large, so we're gonna work with you guys to make sure we don't reach 51% of the hat, whatever we need to do. So it's, is that the solution, that we need a non-malicious version of them? In my mind, that's what I thought Tari was essentially kind of supposed to be, right? They're merged mine with Monero, you can mine Monero plus get Tari at the same time. We're rooting that on, but at the same time we're fearing Cubic when really they're effectively the same thing, no? Xenu No, yeah, I mean it's at the end of the day, we just need more hash rate and we need more hash rate That's like going to p2 pool And this is something that we don't really like to talk about but p2 pool adoption is just terrible Like it like it's really like one of the more disappointing things in monero right now if you think about like Why aren't more people using p2 pool? You know, I mean like it should be like the what people want to use because it's decentralized There's no there's no fee. But right now it's only like 2% of of the hash rate if not even less so it's like Another solution being pushed is to like try to have that be You know promoted harder basically and there's like different ways that they're going about it I can't really speak too much on the specifics. I did listen to you know, luke parker on monero topia recently where there's that Tevador has that solution with you have to run at your own node There are like things that we can do to like, you know help promote P2 pool to increase that adoption and that could help also as well Um, i've also read things about you know, maybe having different Mining algorithms in addition to proof of work. There's even people talking about proof of stake Which I don't I don't think is going to happen. But you know, I was getting I was Doug getting murdered on on X like I'm like guys I'm just like telling you what others are like I'm not you know I'm not the decision-maker here guys yeah but I am open-minded to these things and I like I brought up the xano thing because that's what they're all about you know and it's like all right maybe we should consider it and essentially that's what Luke right I mean that's kind of his top choice he was talking about a finality layer that's going to use proof of stake so you'd essentially a hybrid proof-of-work proof of stake you still have your proof-of-work system but then this finality layer would be using some proof-of-stake system is that like a no-go with most of the community you'd say just because it has the word proof-of-stake in it or it's yeah probably actually open yeah Xenu I would say probably I would have to look more into it. I can't really speak too much on it But when I was hearing Luke talk about I was like yeah, but I'm like I am like open to hearing the Doug discussion, but what is your biggest concern? Why are you so opposed to it? Xenu Well, because proof of work is just tried and true, like, you know, capitalism. You have to invest in in mining and then you get rewards in return. Because like, for example, if we would. Doug It would still be hybrid. We'd still have that going. Yeah. We'd still fail the mission. Xenu Well, what I'm just saying is if someone just holds a lot of Monero, though, by them just having a lot of Monero, they would get more returns. So you look at someone like the Michael Saylor situation, where by them just having a lot of that one cryptocurrency, they just get more by just sitting on it. And that's just kind of, it leads to centralization. And for me, that's just concerning. Another solution, and I saw this in the comments, but I was going to get to it, is the number going up. This is actually also the other thing that can really help the hash rate. I know I'm the anti-moon boy here, but this is something that the moon boy and the anti-moon boy can shake on. Doug We will improve a proof-of-stake system I think we potentially or a hybrid proof-of-stake system could potentially help that because now you have people how it costs Xenu Yes, but yeah, for me, it's just proof of stake has too many centralization issues. What does help Monero though with proof of stake is we've had a better mining distribution and more- Right. Doug We've already gone through that stage where all our coins have been issued except for the tail emission now. So it's like the coins have been out there for a long time. It's only been proof of work. And if it's hybrid, you're still continuing the proof of work and you still have that tail emission. So you still have a way for people to always obtain crypto permissionlessly by running a CPU, right? I don't know. I'm not, first of all, like I said, I'm not smart enough to decide either way, but I'm not like instinctively opposed to it on a level for me, maybe like the ASIC thing, maybe I would even be more opposed to that if we were like, hey, we're going to go switch to ASICs. Yeah, it's subtle to be more opposed to that than, you know, keeping random random X. So we're always CPU preferred mineable. We're very decentralized in that regard. And then there's some like proof of stake aspect. I think that finality layer thing sounds interesting, but. Xenu It does sound interesting, I've never heard of that before. Doug Yeah, yeah, I was and then and then you do get some of that number go up thing going on because you have people staking They're staking their coins and Xenu Yeah, I guess just for me like proof of work has always been the number one for me and proof of sake is just a no-go But you know what I will say though like my faith in random acts has taken a hit and that that hurts cuz I really Doug push you on that too because you mentioned that but why I mean my understanding is like so like this Cubic could have could have could in some fashion perhaps do something this to Bitcoin No I mean if you're if you have mining pools and you can mine Bitcoin over here in this pool or you can mine it In this pool where you're also getting this extra payout. It's the same dynamic whether they're mining with CPUs or ASICs That incentive still exists to pool together. Well, it's not mining over here I mean, I guess the argument is because there's less incentive for those people that want to hurt the network because they own Oh, yes, so Xenu know the reasoning well no it would be game theory because that that's kind of the other issue that's happening right now with Monero is that the game theory isn't sticking because you would imagine that people would switch pools and not mind cubic if Monero is failing but we're not actually saying that we're just seeing we're just seeing cubic kind of take over like with Bitcoin it the game theory I think would easily win out in that situation where people would just be like what is this project we're gonna we want to mine Bitcoin and that is just because Bitcoin has just more reputability Doug Is that because of ASICS, or is that just because there's more people that are, you know, diet- Well, it is- ... wanting to hurt Bitcoin. Xenu Yeah, that does have an impact because you have to actually invest in the specialized hardware because like cubic They would have to like literally go out of the way and buy these specialized miners To mine bitcoin whereas with cpus. It's just everyone has computers Um, or they can just go to like server farms and you know, or they could use a botnet, you know, it's it's it's a little different Whereas with a6 you do have that specialized hardware. So it's actually one of the better arguments for a6 um Unfortunately, because I don't like a6 but like it I have to I have to like I have to be honest like you know What I mean? It's yeah. No Doug either. I got you, but I'm not totally convinced that this can't be done in an ASIC network because you're really all you're doing is creating a pool and you're pulling people into that pool with this added reward. That's, that's offset. Like I don't, I, I think there'd be more reluctance, but if the reward was really there, I mean, you know, even these Bitcoin miners, obviously a lot of them are, yeah, super maxis, but I would imagine a lot of them are just, you know, looking to turn electricity into, into, into money, right? Whether it's Bitcoin or something else, and they want as much of it as they can get. Xenu Well, I think it also falls back, though, on that problem I mentioned earlier, where Monero is just not profitable, whereas mining Bitcoin would be much more profitable. Because with Monero, you're like, I forget what it is. I think it's per dollar you get like 67 cents back or it's like the rate of return is like not good when you're mining Monero, especially if you're like just starting off. So it's kind of like with with Bitcoin, the rate of return is definitely much better. So they're more inspired to do that. And just because Bitcoin does have that number go up mentality as well, people are more invested in it in that way. Whereas with Monero, it's definitely more based on idealism. But that's being challenged right now, for sure. Like I want I want random X to succeed. So I don't think this is over yet, but it's definitely kind of kind of a shake in the community because it requires us to all like contribute in mind. You know, so I would I would really tell people that are listening who aren't mining to like add hashrate because like adding hashrate, any sort of amount of hashrate makes this harder for them. Or you can even rent hashrate if you want to. Doug Uh, Apollo Robe is saying if you do security budgets, dwindling, making such an attack even more like, yeah, that's, that's what I'm kind of seeing too, right? Like the attack, I think could theoretically happen on Bitcoin, especially once it gets closer to its cap and it's literally just based on transaction. Xenu Yeah, maybe. I mean, it would they are going to have issues for sure going forward. I'm not saying like Bitcoin has a perfect model or anything, especially with their their issue with like block sizes as well. You know, people aren't going to be like, well, you have the situation if there's a lot of transactions being spent, it's hard to send transactions. But on the flip side, if nobody's really sending transactions, then you don't get less fees. And then the miners will have to just raise fees overall. It turns into this like really this model that's like not really sustainable in the long term unless the price continues to go up. Right. So, yeah, I'm not really sure it is possible that this attack could work on Bitcoin. But I think it's a lot more doubtful just because there's there's a lot more people invested in Bitcoin. It's just much more universal. They have talked about Dogecoin. Maybe that would work. Doug I see people coming out saying all sorts of things to it would like when they're like, oh you should team up with pirate chain And murder like you know like yeah, sure Five pirate chain wants to figure out how to add merge mining with Monero go for it Sure, I'm loving the chats guys, but please consider using XMR chat comm slash Monero talk to send your Monero based super chats That's what we need to do guys. We need to use Monero You don't have to send a lot just settle you know send whatever but let's use that if you can Tari's proof of work is complex But smart currently split between four algorithms with the fourth algorithm to be added in the future and attacker would have to gain hash Of course cross three or four algorithms Yeah, that I don't know my I don't know I kind of don't know the details of Tari too well but why is it like Tari working better in terms of providing the competing hash or the additional hash power we need any any thoughts there like Xenu Well, I think they're splitting up their hash rate, right? So they have a portion dedicated to an ASIC, SHA-X, I think. I forget. It was in an Aerocom. They had a presentation on it. They have one for GPU, a percentage. And then they have another percentage that is for RandomX. So I think initially, when they launched, they had more dedicated towards RandomX. And then they changed it and then lowered it. So it's a lower percentage. I also think, too, that because of their launch, it was just exciting. So everyone wanted to mine it early. And then after the hype of the launch, now it kind of goes down. Now they're back to down the floor. This is what happens, right? So I wasn't expecting that kind of bump to last. The other thing, too, was there was a price pump happening around the same time, right? So everything was going up. The hash was going up and everything. And now everything's kind of come back down. You know, actually, this attack would have been much more successful before the bull run. Because before the bull runner, our hash rate was only like 2 gigahash. So yeah, right now, cubic, they have, I think, more than 2 gigahash. So we have improved. It's not like RandomX hasn't gone better over time. Doug Are we breaking all-time highs right now in terms of hash power? I mean, we should be, right? They're attacking us for telling everybody to turn on your miners. I mean, we should be at all-time highs right now. Otherwise, what the hell is going on? That doesn't really matter. Xenu Again, I think they're lying about their hash rate, and they're doing things to make it so it's hard to track the hash rate. I forgot if I mentioned this, but with the net hash, it's the average of the past 24 hours. And because cubic is not projecting their hash rate all the time, they're screwing around with what that number actually is. So it's kind of hard to estimate where they actually are at. But we can look at what they've been able to accomplish in the blocks they found, and kind of like get like an estimate based on like probabilities. And it seems like they're in the 30, 35% range right now, I would say. They're definitely aren't at 50, because if they were at 50, they could pretty much successfully mine every block if they wanted to, with selfish mining. I actually have some percentages here if you wanna get some, get some math here. So Ruchnium actually, he did this whole report. And by the way, Ruchnium, he has a CCS proposal. So I highly recommend, if you want the long-term improvement of Monero with mining, look up his latest research proposal. Cause Ruchnium has actually been sounding the alarm on this for like the past year, and no one listened to him. Okay. It's like that scene in South Park with Randy go, we didn't listen, we didn't listen. This is like, remind me of that. Doug because he's been talking about this for a while. I presented it at Manero Topia, I thought you were realizing. Xenu yeah well anyway he has this um he has this chart okay so this is this is the scary thing so let's say cubic has 40 of the hash rate if they have 40 of the hash rate and they mine if they want a seven block reorg it would take them less than an hour to get that just just by them trying to get a reorg it would take them less than an hour to get a seven block reorg with with 40 of the hash rate that's not even 50 percent and with with 30 percent of the hash rate if they're just trying to get a seven block reorg over and over again they would have a 50 chance within 3.5 hours so that that's actually like pretty alarming like they're already able to do that even with only 30 percent of the hash rate so it's it's actually like statistic like i i didn't actually didn't even realize this but like the probabilities of it are actually like in the favor of whoever wants a selfish mine and we've had this issue of minor decentralization for so long so i mean this is something that they can realistically do especially if they get over like 40 percent um so that's why like by adding hash rate as much hash rate as we can on these upcoming marathon days we can push back against this attack because if we don't you know if they're in this 35 to 40 percent range we're going to see more chaos like we did on monday Doug Sheldon tip the dollar great to listen to Doug and Zeno. I appreciate you both taking the time to have a chat to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No place I'd rather be right now. And if they as French as Zeno here as as we tell Xenu Yeah, we are like a foxhole right now Doug Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hmm. What was that? I had a thought here. Yeah, I was trying to get like, well, but why isn't why isn't Tari or something like Tari more successful in like being able to also, well, I guess you kind of covered that pretty well. And maybe maybe we'll see other cryptos pop up that will be merged mine with Monero. I mean, do you think that's that's a potential solution there too? Just seeing more of these merge mineable projects. Maybe something sticks takes and it catches fire. Xenu Yeah, I mean, I know Darkfie they're going to at some point and they're probably the thing is they haven't released their tokenomics as far as I know, but like that should have like some speculation and them endorsing random X is a pretty big deal. I would I would argue. Yeah, I I know I'm being doomerish. I don't think random X is over, but like we definitely do need to kind of like harden this this portion clearly because these the minor decentralization has been an issue and you know, there's just a lot of options on the table. So it's overwhelming for me as well, but we're kind of just taking them all in like once that one step at a time, you know, so. Doug Mr. James, $2, you have a chance to continue Monero's historic victory and secure the most decentralized monetary network by mining. Call 10 people every day and teach them to mine. Yeah. I mean, seriously, it's got any grassroots. I think Nick Fuentes could be our solution here. I mean, if he is telling people to use Goopaks, the guy is really obviously very intelligent. He understands crypto well enough to understand why Monero is important and right. He's been talking about it. He's experienced why you would need a Monero. He's lived it. And he's also the type of guy who understands that things aren't always what they're seeing, that there's powers behind the curtain. I think he would kind of really pick up fast on understanding how Bitcoin has been co-opted and that we need something like a Monero. That's the kind of issue we have. We don't have so much of a technical issue, right? Obviously, we have the ring signatures thing, but we got full chain members for proofs coming. But we're pretty good on the tech. Now we need the adoption. We have the tool. We're here. If we use it, we win. But we need more people to use it. A guy like that, if he gets his fan base using Monero, is that a potential solution? I see that as could be something a breakthrough, like reaching a new level of adoption and awareness among a larger audience. Xenu Well, I think, yeah, long-term, like you're seeing more censorship. So censorship resistant peer-to-peer networks are going to become more and more popular. So yeah, absolutely. Like long-term, like, um, the Nick Fuentes, like, I don't know if it was an endorsement. It was more like he was, he was talking about censorship and financial transactions. And to say something smart, his brain said, mention Monero. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if it's just him having experience using Monero or just like reading about articles with Monero, but he knew that that was like the smart thing to say in that situation because he's a smart guy. Doug I think it was even deeper than that, right? He's had his Bitcoin tracked and traced when he received that donation from that French dude who was on his deathbed He's been de-banked He's been de-platformed. I think he it wasn't just I heard this Monero thing I think it's dude. There's there's one thing that can do this and that's Monero. I mean that that's what I heard That's what I heard him saying Xenu Yeah, it definitely could be. I'm just kind of saying it's more like he, he's a reflection, he's a reflection of like, I think the greater audience of like, people in politics who are like aware that things are being censored. And they're being like, they're learning over time that, oh, yeah, Monero's, that's the privacy one, like, they're, that's kind of like the reaction that they're having, like, you know, like, there's been other streamers as well recently, like, I'm seeing that more and more. And I think it would be great if he adopted like, XMR chat. I do. Yeah, I mean, I know that his donation streams are popular, I'm surprised they haven't taken those down yet. So actually, like, if they take down, if they take down his methodology, like XMR chat is right there. So, you know, Doug That could be that could be the 100 percent the thing that opens his eyes What if we increase the block confirmation from 10 blocks to 20 blocks and reduce the time to one minute per block? so just Obviously, so we you to be a lot more confirmations that they'd have to achieve Xenu I honestly have no idea. There's probably a technical reason why that one really works out to me. Doug being the same thing. Yeah. Xenu No in all seriousness that's usually how it works to kind of let them out it kind of levels out at the end So I think it would probably just be the same situation But they would be able to like they would mathematically be able to solve more blocks in that period guys Doug can share. We have 300 live viewers in here. A lot of people have their eye on Manero right now, have their eye on this attack that's happening. So get the word out. I think a lot of people want to find out what's really going on. Not that we, we know what's really going on. But I think, I think we have some pretty good takes here. Definitely as you know. What do you think? Did do you see the, like the press release that cubic put out the announcement that they put out? Yeah. Because it was interesting because they're like, well, we achieved, well, first of all, I think we should make it clear, right? Like they didn't, they didn't, they did not double spend. They didn't do a 51% attack on, on Manero. Yes. Xenu And actually, I do have a note here of ruckium confirmed that no double spends were made, because if there was a double spend, it would show up when you input current pool stats in the Monerod console. So you could actually go to your node right now and show that. And you would see that come up if there was a double spend. So we know that there wasn't. But we do know that transactions that were made during that time, if they were not included in the reorg blocks, they would then get reverted back to the mempool. So it's like not the end of the world if your transaction gets reverted back. But obviously, we don't want that happening. And of course, as you mentioned, the cubic could double spend if they had wanted to, which obviously is really, really bad. Doug Right. And in their write up, they're basically saying, oh, you know, we don't want to hurt Monero. So, I mean, let's think that's all about. The way they're talking about, you know, like, we just wanted to prove that useful proof of work works. That's why we're gaining all this hashing power. And, you know, now we're kind of politely taking over the Monero network. No intention of hurting it. We need the price to be high. Xenu That does help them actually. Yeah, so If they really cared about the Monero network, they would be diverting their hash rate to P2 pool That's what I would say to that. I think they're full of it Okay, because what they're gonna start doing next week. They're gonna start orphaning blocks And they're gonna they're gonna like keep attacking. I don't see why they wouldn't Like I think we're gonna basically have a repeat of Monday essentially where they're gonna be trying to orphan blocks all day That would be my best guess because of what they're trying to do is they're trying to get people to just join their pool and Selfish mining is actually profitable when you're over 33% So if they are at that hash rate, then they're actually making a profit by doing this anyway So so I mean it's it's essential that whatever we do We just need to increase the hash rate that is like by far the most effective thing that we can do in this situation Doug Turn on your miners, turn on your miners. Um, what do you think of this? So let you, should we talk more about, maybe more about the solutions, the proposed solutions, right? So we talked about this, uh, finality layer. We talked about, uh, Tevador, something with the, the node where the nodes would have to sign it. Right. Um, what are your thoughts on maybe some other potential solutions other than just trying to get more people to mine, you know, full speed ahead. Just hope that, you know, if the game theory works out, more people just start mining, uh, what are your thoughts on other things that could be done on a protocol level or, you know, uh, the consensus level to, to the worth this. Xenu Yeah, I mean, again, I guess spitballing here, like, I would be supportive of other mining algorithms that aren't just CPUs, but I really would be against just ASICs. The problem with GPUs is, like, there's a lot of, like, GPU farming going on because of, like, AI, right? I think AIs are mostly trained by GPU. So I don't know, because I think we'd run into the same issue there. My read on the GitHub so far is that the most supported option is just raising transaction fees. That also, by the way, helps with spam attacks, which is kind of another issue that Monero has. So it would actually help kill two birds with one stone. But it would suck, though, because, like, we pride ourselves on, like, our very low fees, you know? And we might have to take a hit on that until we- I'm not a big fan of the- No. Doug I'm all about the edits, you know, yeah, that's that's my whole pitch. We're out there using it, right? It's like oh, yeah for sure an attraction of a set to send I show well ten dollars or ten million dollars. I Xenu random X all the time so I I got some egg on my face but like I we have Doug Don't give up on random X, I don't think it's a random X issue. I mean, obviously it would help if we had, I don't think it's a critical, I don't think it's critical. Yeah. But hey, you're smarter than I am. I just had another thought to, I don't know, keep going, keep going on the thread you're talking about. Xenu Um, I I yeah, I don't really have much more to add here like because I was reading through it earlier And it does seem interesting to have like multiple proof of work algorithms kind of at the same time I find that to be an interesting idea um and um Oh there was um, you know, I know there was experimentation with solo mining only that doesn't seem like it would work I've heard that that is um, something that's really easy to get around um I think incentivizing p2 pool and getting more people to use p2 pool is definitely How we should go forward with with this and yeah, but I mean that really Doug requires more than a, hey, a campaign of let's use PewDiePie, there needs to be like a monetary incentive, right? Because that's what you're up against. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What could that potentially look like? I mean, it's got to be something kind of like what cubic is doing, right? So there's a coin involved, and there's a reason, right? You're getting this, yeah, I added bonus. Xenu I'll make a zenubux, we'll call it zenubux, we'll mine Monero. Doug I was saying of an aerotopia coin, join the bleritigia pool. Xenu Yeah, we could maybe weaponize mining ourselves, I guess. Yeah. Doug Because otherwise, what are you referring to when you say incentives? How do we get people to start using P2pool if it's not something? Xenu It would be making it harder not to just use P2 pool. So like having P2 pool be the easy option would incentivize people to use P2 pool. But it's pretty easy. Doug Now right using goo packs like yeah Xenu Yeah, I was actually kind of confused by that when I was listening where because you don't need a node to run You don't need to run a note to run goop acts. You can just connect the Ramona Doug Point to a remote node. Yeah. Xenu I don't know if Tevador's proposal would change that. I don't really know the specifics. Maybe someone in the chat can clarify, but yeah. I don't really know. But yeah, you would have to, I don't know. You can't just like make more block reward. You know, we can't screw around with the economics because that would be really disastrous in my opinion because we have to just stick to them. Exactly, yeah. That was actually proposed in the GitHub. It kind of very much changed. Doug No, I was like, what? Yeah, I saw that get shut down. Xenu I was like dude no they're like you can't screw with the economics. Yeah, they're so quick like oh, let's just raise it to the Telemission yeah, absolutely not Doug Then you're killing the number go up. Like, this is the, like somebody's trying to attack, that's like cubic in there. How about you? Xenu I know, right? His username is like cubic something like, that's hilarious. Yeah, no, because like that would just like completely ruin like the reputation of a narrow like, oh, they're switching their, you know, their, their economic model, like, yeah, absolutely not. Which is why again, like transaction fees, we could switch that and no one would really blink in terms of it being like, uh, it's not bad for the long-term scaling of it. Cause if the, the, um, the fees would come from the user, you know, so it's kind of like a tax on us to make mining more profitable, I guess, which at the end of the day, isn't that bad. Doug Yeah, Edward's saying, I don't think raising fees will work. It just improves cubic's profitability. I don't think cubic can really keep the show up, to be honest, unless they play for attention where it's drawn to. Xenu So that's actually a good point. So Cubic, they have a halving in the week, and that's going to make it harder for them to be profitable. I wouldn't bank on that, though, because of like, clown world, pumponomics kind of stuff. Like, they can still, they can be pumping next week, and like, the halving would be irrelevant, right? But it is something to keep in mind, though, because if they're giving out half of their emissions to miners, that makes it half as profitable. So I was always of the opinion that that is going to be like, what's going to start slowing it down. But we need to get to there first. So we have three more marathon days before that. So we got to like weather the storm, kind of band down the hatches. Doug show I've taught you yeah we use the goo packs it's easy to do if I could do it literally if I could do it anybody can dog was able to use it come on like all thumbs on the freakin like I'm not a kid I'm not a computer guy I'm really not that's why I love Monero cuz it's so easy at work yes and you know you don't have to worry about shit but yeah get it going every every little bit helps Xenu Well, because every every hash rate you put for it. So if you put a thousand hash for it, cubic will have to match that thousand hash and also put in more hash to come to make up for that because you're like expanding the amount of hash rate. Right. Yeah. So it's you're making it much harder for them. The worst thing that could happen is if a minor defects. So if you have like a big minor and like support XMR, go over to a cubic. Then that is drawing hash rate away from us and just giving them something they're doubling in size, basically, or they're doubling their hash rate for that portion. So it's yeah, the best thing we can do is just add hash rate and focus on these days that are upcoming because they're announcing them for the hype. And if we just squash that hype, then it will help help things a lot. You know what I mean? So tell everybody this is like that scene in Lord of the Rings where you're there's the torches, you know, I'm talking about the return of the king. Whether they're running around laying the stuff on fire is, oh, yeah, we're calling for aid right now is what we're doing. You know what I mean? Doug For sure. Yeah, exciting times. Scary times, but exciting. Yeah, let this be our moment, you know, where we show that Monero is grassroots, that the hashing power is there, that random X will prevail, to turn on their miners. Everybody's got CPUs laying around. Turn them on. Turn them on. And when you turn them on, don't go mine cubic at the same time, please. Please. Please. Xenu But it is profitable, though. But it is, I mean... I mean, what are people doing with the Cuban, too? Because, like... Doug Oh, yeah, I don't want to ask you do you think this trade over going down as part of this whole scam scheme? Cuz like now you can't even go dump your cute I don't know. I guess you could go dump on another but it's not on that many exchanges Xenu yeah and as far as I know their wallets weren't even working for a while they might even still be down good they were getting DDoSed and I guess their entire network was down like last week I'm not sure if it's down now though but yeah I haven't seen anything but the the timing of trade ogre going down was is very peculiar especially also with majestic bank going down I mean they didn't majestic bank didn't like go dark they but they did put out just a statement hey we're shutting down and they're they dipped you know what I mean which is very it reminds me actually a lot of the local Monero drop off where I mean they were a pillar of the Monero community for years and they just put out hey guys we're leaving we never got a story about that you we can only let out yeah we never had Doug of Monero talk on that one. Al, yo, yo, yo, what happened, Monero? Thank you. Xenu Sorry, I think he's yeah, he's got like a gag order or something like something. It's very very peculiar And so majestic big same thing and then like literally the next week Cubic down we had samurai wallet put in plea deals tornado cash Relatively negative ruling like it's basically a total storm of poo right now and Yeah, now we also have this cubic situation So there does seem to be an element of coordination or it's just a really bad coincidence But yeah, I I look a good conspiracy theory. It's it's plausible that there's some there's there's some people who are upset about Monero looking to Capitalize on dumping the price. Maybe they want to collect more, you know It's it's also possible by the way that cubic has a lot more hash rate that they're letting on and that they're hiding their hash rate That's another thing. I was kind of hearing about I don't know if you know of vern XMR He one of the Monero devs and he was telling me actually on Like what was it Saturday? I think that he thought he was he thought that cubic was like hiding their hash rate because he thought it was very odd that They were being able to get reorg blocks on Saturday like they were they were consistently getting them and then all of a sudden on Monday They were just boom him like left and right and then they're getting big ones, too They could have just rented hash rate at that time. I mean, we don't really know It was just but it was very much like all of a sudden everything ramped up and we were like kind of like Watching that like oh crap. Okay. This is actually really serious Doug Is there anything else in your mind that that we could be doing right now other than everybody turning on their goopax miners telling others to mine What else can immediately be done because even these solutions that we're talking about all of them are gonna take time Obviously, I guess the fee the changing the fee is something that can be done fast. Personally. I don't know I don't really see that it was it as working but you guys you guys know better than I do. I mean In my mind I see that as all right like ed bird McLean is saying like, you know That just helps them too because they're just gonna get more I don't see that hurting them but any any other thoughts like of what in the very Xenu In the immediate term, you can rent hash rate at mining rig rentals. So that was actually probably the most effective thing you can do. The only thing though is you're going to be losing on it. You're not really getting much Monero back at all. It's very not profitable, but you would be boosting the hash rate. And there's like 800 mega hash available to purchase. But again, you're not going to make a profit. I don't want people like getting mad at me for like, oh, I just lost all this money. Like it's going to be like, you're going to get like 25% back of what you put into it. But you would be able to increase the hash rate on a pool that is in cubics. So that's one thing you can do. And that would have an immediate impact. So if you are feeling like, uh, feeling generous that, that would be an immediate boost as well. Doug Yeah. So either run your own miners or pay to, pay to mind. Yeah. Um, and yeah, not, not get a huge return, but I mean, it's a good time, good time to get in, right? Price is low. You know, maybe you're not getting a ton of Monero out of it. Uh, but if, if everything works out and Monero carries on, that's what I don't be worth a lot more. Xenu Honestly, I think the Monero bulls can feast on this opportunity to be honest with you Like I mean if if cubic is successfully able to like become the largest pool like it would the price would go down more But I mean, I'm not going anywhere. I know you're not going in well I go we were really committed to this project. So it's like a short-term pain, but we'll be stronger because of it But yeah, it's a dogfight right now. So we just got to fight back. It's put us out of it Doug You just speak just be cubic talk instead of Monero talk anywhere, man Xenu We're gonna have to rebrand that's that's a difficult part of Doug What if we add a random transaction finder alongside random acts so as you're mining you have to also find a specific pass transaction on that to prove that you have downloaded the full blockchain. I don't know. I don't know. You want. You wouldn't have to. You could add that to the GitHub, bro. I don't know. Xenu Yeah, I think you would you would be able to do that with a remote node I think so I don't I don't think that would prove of running a full node cubic talk. Yeah Cubic topia that doesn't really run off. Well, you may be like cubic Palooza would maybe some I know Doug How do you think this idea of like, like forking cubic and making like a non-nefarious version? I had not heard that one. That's a good one. But this is my idea. I threw this out there on the show the other day. This is like, right? Because in theory, it's, like I said, if things were framed a little differently, if they were the friendly version of what they are, we'd be cheering them on right now. Yeah. All this? We're getting more hashing power? Xenu You know, it is true that like, if there was like, this is actually like kind of an interesting, like, attack model, I don't think it's ever really been done before like using this as with like with with cubic their whole thing is like they're building this like AI thing I don't it's very confusing and like it doesn't make any sense. So if you if but if your sole purpose was just to mine in a very fair way and you're not you're not trying to cause the harm and you pay out people and whatever token. Yeah, maybe that would work. But like, I don't know how the economics would hold up in the long run. For like, because it would be kind of like a pump and dump, right? Because that's what's gonna happen with cubic. It's just gonna pump and dump like it's not gonna like stay. Doug at least it would take the oxygen out of the room for them, right? Because now you'd have competition. And ultimately, if they both if they both go down, who cares at that point, you know, I don't know, I think we just need more like more competition against them others to kind of running the same. We need more people running the same scam that they're running and take advantage. Xenu Maybe we could divert more transaction fees specifically to p2 pool like just siphon more fees Doug I don't know. How would that work? I'm just spitballing. Xenu I'm just saying, I'm like, I'm trying to increase the, uh, the profitability though. Uh, I don't know. Like basically the fees, like you would burn the amount if it's not going to P two pool, but if P two pool solves a block, they would get the entire thing. I don't know. Maybe. Doug And I guess then that would be concern, what were the concerns? Xenu Well, you would be burning Monero though, because you would be the transaction. The transaction fee is taking Monero from people. So you would have to, I don't think this would work, but I'm just saying, I'm trying to figure out ways to like make P2 pool like more like, Oh, we got to get on this to, to like, you know, so something like that, but I don't know how that would work. Doug What do you think of what I like maybe that could come out of this with some of the solutions we're talking about that it could potentially get rid of the 10 block clock? That's what I kind of liked about the finality layer that Luke was talking about. My understanding is it would also get rid of the 10 block clock, which would be great. Xenu Well, I mean, from a UX perspective, yeah, that would be awesome. That's a good one. Yeah, for sure, for sure. It definitely, that's really hard and annoying to explain to people. It's like, I've given you this, you can't use it for 20 minutes though. And when you use it in the future, you also have to wait 20 minutes is like really hard to explain why that works. Yeah, it would be preferable if whatever solution we have does have something like that. I can't really speak too much on this finality layer though. I have to read up the whole write up and I have not done that. Doug anything else you want to bring up other than this cubic fiasco I mean there's a lot going on obviously we had the tornado cash rulings that we had the the set this samurai ruling yeah we could we can Xenu You can go into that if you want. Doug Yeah. I mean, what do you, what do you think of all that that's going on there? I mean, that's once again, timing is crazy, right? Happening at the same time. Cause it's also arguably, uh, could be spun as bad for Monero, right? Because it's, it's, it's kind of could cause a chilling effect among devs, right? If they're seeing what these guys granted, what they were working on is an analogous to what Monero is, right? It was different types of tools. They were for profit tools, but at the end of the day, it was open source software that developers were building. And is that going to potentially scare, scare away some of those that would otherwise be contributing to Monero, things like that. Xenu Well, speaking of chilling effects, you just had an Ethereum developer arrested in Turkey. Doug So it's because he worked on tornado tech because he yeah, yeah, yeah Xenu Because basically what happens is the United States makes a rule and then everyone else follows it You know, so like it's very like these cases might are like they might seem like very small But this was like a huge deal the tornado cash thing Yeah, so I'll do same right well first. So that happened Two weeks ago. They actually pled guilty which was like actually very shocking no one really saw that coming because If you you knew the the guys behind that project they were very passionate about yeah, you know like me I've oh yeah Doug Obviously, I wish the best for them given what's going on, but I also found that suspicious that they were so like against me. I didn't really get that, but we don't even go down that threat. Yeah. Xenu Yeah, and the thing is so they pled guilty right and I was really shocked I kind of got to thinking about though and you know so I I did a whole breakdown of the tornado cache trial on my podcast anti moon boy news every Monday and You know, I did a full breakdown of it And one of the things that was really a thorn in Roman storm side was at an ethereum conference in Boston He wore a shirt that had the tornado cache logo on a washing machine. Yes And that was like they kept bringing that up like in the write-ups Like that was clearly a very negative spin and the prosecution was just using that and the thing about samurai wallet is they were assholes Doug Should I remove this hat from my studio? You're not a developer. This is just a statement. I don't necessarily take action because of this, but I think we all agree that it is a form of theft. Yeah. Xenu Do agree Yeah, so the thing the thing with samurai wallet is they were they were dicks right there They were just like not nice people and they were very opinionated so like I think like all of their tweets who have just been brought up in court and like they were just saying very aggressive things about the state and how they were supportive of like Darknet and stuff and that she said man if you have put that front of a jury like that's really tough So I think like their lawyers were like we gotta just take this plea here. The prosecution was trying to save face It was kind of just like a an unfortunate deal that they didn't like admit that Like they didn't As far as I understand it the plea looks bad But it doesn't set precedent is how I heard it and they and they're they're not gonna serve a lot of time But they will be sentenced. So it's kind of like it's a loss. It could have been a lot worse. They probably took it Just again for the reasons I said their lawyers were probably advising of it because if they lost it would be a lot worse But it did kind of put us like a bad mark on this tornado cash case the jurors I don't think we're aware of the samurai wallet stuff. I think they were closed off from that So it's not like it had an impact on the trial, but it definitely had an impact on the vibe And then with tornado cash, I mean, I thought the defense did really well You know, unfortunately the the counts came back. There are three counts. The first count was money laundering Jury was hung on that The second count was unlicensed money transmission, which he was found guilty for which was in violation of section I was like US code something section 1960 And okay back to that and then the third count was sanctions evasion. He was found Well, it was a hung jury for that as well The two counts that are hung jury though can those can be retried and they probably will be retried I would be surprised if they're not because the prosecution has been on them for that But for the second count that can be appealed and we actually have pretty good chances of appealing that law Because the whole thing with the unlicensed money transmission thing is of course It's transmitting money without a license and knowing that the money was being transferred without That the money that was being used was part of a crime is what that what that's for But the thing is like applying that standard is it's bad because you're you're saying that Roman was actually the money Transmitter and that he was in control of the funds, which he wasn't but the the definition that was put forward in this section 1960 is very broad and it can't be applied that way. So I don't really blame the jury. It should have been dismissed a while ago Because the thing was tornado cash they were following FinCEN guidelines in which the FinCEN guidelines they followed like to a T So it's it's kind of like the prosecution ignored FinCEN, but only took 1960. Doug They didn't even allow Fincen like to be considered like the right they didn't even allow to be considered by the like yeah Jury and whatnot. Yep Xenu So it's the good news is after the case who was after the verdict was read, you know, he got guilty So then the prosecution was like, okay We want him to go to jail and they actually the defense was able was able to say no And the judge ruled in the defense's favor and the judge actually did indicate like yeah, this is good grounds Well, like they can they can continue there's a lot of fight left with this and she kind of implied that there was like An appeal that was forthcoming which is which is good because there should be an appeal on this So that's actually something that I fingers crossed. I do think roman can win Unfortunately, though the other two charges probably will be retried. So I I do have a feeling we will be seeing them in court again Doug Yeah, I mean, that would be very bad precedent if the ruling stays as is, right? Because now, like what you're saying is operating without a license or you're considered a money transmitter, even if you didn't have control of the funds potentially. Xenu Yeah. Like I said, I already had an impact on that one developer and a turkey and I would imagine other businesses would be affected as well. So I mean, yeah. Doug I mean even XMR bizarre right like it's just like it gets a little iffy then right if you're saying yeah that becomes more it becomes more gray yeah Xenu they may require you or they may require users to provide an ID for like any type of internet usage in the future like that's really where we're heading and which is crazy because like these data leaks with KYC are like horrible but like the the the interim solution is for these like third parties to like hold your KYC information and they just get like hacked all the time and you know what I mean uh more like we had coin days where they they're the information was sold to like the highest bidder from some guy working in India you know it's just it's really KYC is just really dangerous from a privacy perspective um but this is apparently supposed to protect us yeah I don't know Doug Walls are closing in, guys. The walls are closing in, but they can't contain us. They can't contain us. Xenu Hey, I told you I was negative on the tornado cache ruling last time we talked. I remember that. Doug Yes. Xenu And I was like, listen, I don't want to be the bear of bad news, but this is probably what's going to happen. Doug Yeah, I know, I know. Xenu So, I mean, it is what it is, but we're fine back. Doug What do you think, anything else we should cover? I mean, I think. Xenu I think that's, that's a lot. Doug Yeah, basically, in summary, Monero, Monero is under attack, Monero is under attack. Fire up the miners, guys. That's really all we could do at this point, is grow adoption, get the word out there, people realizing how important a tool like Monero is, and that now is the moment. If they ever wanted to help in some way, now is the time to help and be part of the grassroots effort to ensure Monero's success. Like I said, I don't really foresee a doomsday scenario. It would just be a falter. It already is stumbling, right? It's having the effect, the negative press, people getting scared out of Monero, but it's not really a doomsday thing. Even if they were able to do something with their hashing power other than re-org, it doesn't kill the network. Exactly. It's not going anywhere. Monero isn't going to disappear from your wallet. You'll still be able to transact on the network, and the game theory will just play out. More people will come and buy it out. It's growing pains. It's growing pains. Xenu Yeah, we can use this as a positive for sure. And it is a short term negative. And plus, Monero has just been winning a lot lately. So a lot of people are piling in because they want to punch down at us. Fair enough. We were winning kind of a lot. So it's fine. They're correct that we're dealing with this. But it's OK. We'll get through it. Doug All right. I think everybody that watches me knows you, but why don't you go ahead and shill anything you want to shill so people know where to find you. Xenu Yeah, you can find me on twitter at Zeno Monero and on or you can just look up anti moon boy calm For all my content. I'm on youtube odyssey and rumble Got a weekly podcast every monday called anti moon boy news where I talk about Pretty much everything in digital cash and i've also been making a lot of user friendly videos about monero So I have a video about goop acts and mining rig rentals, which we were talking about earlier So you can check out those videos and learn how to help out the network and that's pretty much it Doug Yeah, I highly recommend people that you're hearing a story around the word, Goopaks, mining. Best way to get started is to go watch Zeno's video on Goopaks. How long is it? It's like Xenu Smell it, it's super simple. Like you literally, you download the program, you click two buttons and you're mining on P2pool. Super easy and effective. Doug Yeah. So go ahead and watch that tutorial. And yeah, you're doing a great job, man. I've said it before on your podcast. I love that you're using the XMR chats. I love the way you've kind of used it. You take your questions every week. People take it very seriously. They're asking you good questions using XMR chat and just everything you're covering. So thank you for all that. You've been a great voice in the community, soothing us when times get tough with your base takes. So I appreciate everything you're doing, man. Xenu Yeah. Thanks for the comments, man. I appreciate it. Doug course all right I'm gonna go ahead and play the outro and later guys turn on those miners adios yeah see you Xenu Thank you.