Latest / The Specific Jawns / Second Half Vibe Check
Transcript
- Pat: What's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Specific Johns podcast, where we talk Phillies baseball. ⁓ and there's a lot to talk about this week. ⁓ fewer people than we normally have to talk about it though. Two-man episode today. So we're gonna be ⁓ we're gonna be getting into some things. ⁓ our good friend Carl Bakuti, unable to join us this evening, so I am Pat Barker. This is my co-host for the night, Mike Sambuco, all-star Mike Sambuco, fresh off of All the events, not just the the All-Star game, not just the Derby. The futures game, the celebrity game, the fan fest, the whatever whatever other events there were in Philadelphia All Star Weekend. This man was there for all of them and I can't wait to hear about it. Mike, how's it going? Mike Sambuco: Great, I'm still riding that high. I mean it was when in Rome, you you gotta attend everything you can when they're in town once every thirty years, so took advantage of it with the fam and some friends and ⁓ it was a blast. Pat: What was the full itinerary, real quick, of everything that you did? Mike Sambuco: Yeah, so ⁓ we took advantage of the All-Star Village on Saturday. We spent the whole morning with the girls, wife and the kids. ⁓ g w we got there with the the early access ticket, thinking, ⁓ this is great, we'll get some time before everybody gets there and the lines are massive. Well, there was a line wrapped around the convention center two blocks long to get in before nine. So ⁓ that didn't go as planned, but ⁓ I ended up going back with a a buddy on Tuesday before the All Star game and the lines were a lot more manageable that day. ⁓ best part, I'll just go quickly on that one because the best part was the virtual reality home run derby. Not everything you could do ⁓ without like a special reservation or ticket. ⁓ talked to the lady at the front of the line, she was like, you know, reservations are kinda dying down, we'll let you in on this one. ⁓ we ended up striking a conversation with her and she's been doing these types of activations like for 30 years. She used to work for the Texas Rangers and just goes to every All-Star game w doing this. So like future me, that's the life. ⁓ retirement plan for sure. Anyway, the ⁓ next day we went to the futures game, took the girls Pat: I don't know Whoa wait wait wait wait wait wait b back it up back it up one second. Mo so you participated in a virtual home run derby? Mike Sambuco: Virtual ⁓ home run derby put the headset on, I think it's the MetaQuest, and you g give it a bat and it has a little sensor on the end of the bat, and ⁓ you get, you know, a minute and a half worth of pitches, so that home run derby was timed. ⁓ I ended up getting fourth out of the whole weekend and I that was, you know, very impressive from my standing as a ⁓ slender stature five nine ⁓ hundred and forty five pound man, winning a ho winning in my mind. Pat: Sure. All right. Mike Sambuco: Top four, ⁓ getting on the leaderboard, I'll take that. So that was pretty cool just because I did well. ⁓ there was also plenty of you know giveaways, but the best giveaway was at the home run derby. I got one of the big gloves. That thing is twice the size of my head. My girls actually have used because we got two, one ⁓ Lauren got and one I got. Pat: I see it. Mike Sambuco: Girls have been using them as chairs, ⁓ so it may not be in a next video. We'll see. jumping ahead because I did ⁓ skip over the futures game. I will say the futures game was cool to be at, just because Gage Wood started, and then after that it was just like everybody's just there for the event, not paying attention to the game. ⁓ so it was it was pretty low key, not really an exciting game either. ⁓ very much Pat: Yeah. Mike Sambuco: ⁓ like the actual all-star game. But it was only seven innings, which was like I didn't know that going into it, but ⁓ they tried to get as many of the pitchers in, I guess, and still did well. We did not stay for the ⁓ MLB X event, which is what Ryan Howard, Shane Victorino, ⁓ and Jimmy Rollins participated in. but that sounded like it was kind of like a fast paced home run derby kind of thing. So ⁓ watch some of the highlights of that it would seem pretty cool. on s on Monday, Lauren and I took ⁓ ourselves to the home run derby. We got those gloves as I mentioned, but that event was incredible. the the lead up with the intros was was really cool. Wasn't a huge fan of the Will Farrell combo introductions, but everything else was fantastic. The ⁓ I will say ⁓ trigger warning for everybody listening. It felt like 2011 leaving the stadium after the Cardinals crushed their hopes then, just as Jordan Walker did on Monday, beating the ⁓ favored Philly at the time, ⁓ Kyle Schwarber. Didn't think he was gonna hit five or six in a row at the end, and he obviously did. ⁓ that was just ⁓ Pat: ⁓ my god. Okay. Yeah. Mike Sambuco: Although some may say there's an asterisk because maybe he didn't use Magentaball for all of those at the end. I think Pat: He didn't I'm a magenta I'm a ⁓ magenta ball truther. We gotta get to the bottom of this, man. Like this Mike Sambuco: We really do. I you know, there needs to be an investigation. I think they need to take away the million dollar paycheck. And just d distribute it to the the fans. You know, y Kyle Schwarber doesn't need it. Pat: I think that's totally fair. I think it's ⁓ it's ridiculous. And then obviously you close out the weekend with the All-Star Game. We're gonna get there in a minute. I do wanna touch like a little bit more ⁓ in detail on the Derby and the All Star Game before we jump into Philly's second half kind of stuff. I thought the Derby was great. ⁓ you know, watching on TV and of course the nature of the business that I'm in and I I'm not even a really at liberty to say what, but I contributed in some small way to the derby on Monday on the T V side of things. ⁓ but I was, of course, in addition to just watching the Derby as a fan, really interested to see what people had to say about Netflix and their production and everything like that. People were very upset about the camera angles and some things like that. I didn't find it quite as jarring as everyone else. I understand why they did. ⁓ The Will Farrell thing, there's no way those lines should have been broadcast to the stadium. I couldn't believe and and the audio, I don't know if you guys could even hear it, it was hard to hear on TV. Mike Sambuco: It was it was not easy to hear, like I it's funny, I I made the same junior junior joke about junior camaradero, ⁓ to my friend the next day and and he was like, did you just make that up yourself or did you hear that last night? And I like, Nope, I didn't honestly I didn't. Pat: Yeah. The the audio the audio on that segment was terrible and and frankly that should have just been a thing where, you know, the home audience was treated to the comedic stylings of of Will Farrell and and company. Found it very weird that they did that kind of in the arena, ⁓ or the the stadium rather. But that being said Apart from maybe a couple of technical notes that Netflix could take for next time, I think there is some truth in the camera angle thing. It's not quite the disaster for me that other people seem to think. ⁓ I I thought it was the best derby we've seen in a long time. I thought that i the and the stars, the stars, by the way. Mike Sambuco: The f so go for it. Pat: Were were you and forty-three thousand of your friends who were there? The stars was that Philadelphia crowd. That was to me the best representation of what Philadelphia is. I thought they leaned into the booing everything in like a tongue-in-cheek kind of way that you can't get away with in something that actually air quotes matters. ⁓ but It's a spectacle and Philadelphia was the most Philadelphia they could possibly be in booing anything that moved and wasn't wearing a Phillies jersey. And the the passion you you're not gonna get that ever again for a home run derby. I thought it was incredible. What was it like in the building? Mike Sambuco: It truly was incredible in the building. I mean, you you got an experience being there. I'm sure it it translated through the cr through the T V as well on Netflix, but it it really I haven't felt that level of enthusiasm since twenty twenty two during like the first postseason run back at C B P. And it was I I I keep thinking back to the intros and like how well received Harper and Schwarber were. And then I it just everything built on that. Like everybody went into the the the derby knowing that our hometown guys were participating and we were gonna have their backs no matter what. I also am curious of how it would have been if there were No Phillies participating. Like, would we have been as into it? Would it have been more of like a let's pick our random guy who we really like? I also really appreciated like how Jordan Walker just like stepped up and owned it. And his family loved everything about it. Like, usually you get the opposite reaction from family members when that type of stuff happens, but he was he owned that villain role to the point where like I kinda want him on my team now. Like like that's the kind of guy I want. ⁓ speaking of right field outfield bats. I don't think that's happening, by the way. but it it was like with the like the chains and like just you know, his facial reactions to everything, he was all in that villain role. It gave me like super rocky vibes of like going after the Pat: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Sambuco: the the hometown guy and ⁓ it was fun but ⁓ Pat: Yeah. Iron ironically enough, he was Rocky in Philadelphia. Schwarber was you know, Apollo. Schwarber was favorite. And if you're Jordan Walker, you just kinda want to go the distance. He went on an insane run. The footage of his parents in the crowd was unbelievable. ⁓ they embraced it. I thought all the non-philly players did a pretty good job of embracing it. Contreras Mike Sambuco: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Pat: When they threw and I don't know if this got away from the pitcher or if this was like a bit, but when he threw the one up and in on Contreras and the crowd cheered, I thought that was incredible. you know, I I just thought it was the the best ⁓ representation of what Philadelphia is, that that fan base. And v you know, from a viewing perspective, doing away with the clock ⁓ did wonders. You got to watch every ball and and process what happened and ⁓ you know, enjoy it and take it in. I loved it without the clock. Wha what were your thoughts on that? Mike Sambuco: The format In this in stadium it was perfect. And I read something like it was like a hundred and fifty ish home runs compared to like two hundred and fifty home runs the year before or something along those lines. Like cr ⁓ dramatic decrease. Didn't matter. Like we we were on the edge of our seats for every home run the entire time I was in in flight, because you could let it soak in. You could let the stadium breathe a bit. ⁓ Pat: Cares. Mike Sambuco: You could take a pitch and everybody was taking those magenta ball pitches, because like it was hard to see. Clearly, nobody was getting a good read on it. Fallon balls off at the in a home run derby just doesn't happen. But ⁓ the format to me was perfect, except ⁓ I will gripe the semifinals should not be bracketed one v four and two v three. You should just have the top two and the semifinals advance. Like that to me just doesn't make sense. That could get to a situation where like Pat: Yeah. Mike Sambuco: One and four hit two and one and then th two and three hit fifteen and sixteen and you're like, why didn't those two guys just advance? That's gonna happen one year. Pat: Yeah, I think that I think that's I think that's valid and I think there are tweaks that could be made, but I I would take the hundred and fifty home runs that you could appreciate over two hundred and fifty that you instantly forget about. I I've said before I was at the twenty twenty two derby in LA. I don't remember a single home run that was hit. Not one home run stands out to me. I can't I couldn't even tell you who was in it. I just remember Schwarber underperformed and Soto won. Mike Sambuco: Absolutely. Abso friggin' lutely. Pat: And I think Julio Rodriguez put on a shy other than that, it all just blended together. It was all just like rapid fire. ⁓ another home r okay, home run. Home run. ⁓ I thought this was way better. I thought that was the highlight of the weekend. The actual all star Mike Sambuco: Yeah. Ab absolutely. On the field, that was the winner. Jack Kaggs getting into the third deck. Contreras hitting bombs to parts of the second deck in left field that you never saw before. Like making it look easy to get to the last row in the second deck, making it even feasible that like, ⁓ he might actually hit the scoreboard. And then there were I think I think Harper hit one onto Ashburn Alley, so we s we got some like big bombs from the Phills. ⁓ Pat: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. But I I'll I'll tell you this, I love that unintentionally, they have preserved the sanctity of the third deck in right field. A spot that only Ryan Howard twice has ever gone. And we came into this derby and I expected Schwarber to hit four or five up there. I thought Harper would hit a couple up there. Mike Sambuco: Yeah. Thought Murakami was going to he actually hit one in batting practice at before the All Star game, into the third deck. Yeah. And not not like down the line, he did it like in section three ⁓ one, three ⁓ two. Yeah. Pat: Diddy? Yeah. Jesus. That's I I remember the one Bonds hit off of at the time it was he hit it off of John Lieber. It was like a McDonald's billboard like right on the facing of the third deck and he hit that, but it was in right center. And I was like, that's the that's the most impressive thing I've ever seen. But yeah, the righties were were teeing off back towards ⁓ the Harry the K Ghost energy deck ⁓ and and making it look easy. Mike Sambuco: Yeah. That was where Murakami hit it. It was a an batting practice, but like still. Pat: The derby was the highlight of the weekend to me. The actual All Star game, I stand by, you know, the stance I was taking kind of leading up to it. ⁓ if you're there, I think it's a cool thing. ⁓ and just to, you know, say you were there, but the actual game minus the first inning, which as a Phillies fan was hard to enjoy because it was Sanchez getting lit up, what what a what a snooze fest ⁓ you know. Mike Sambuco: I said to Carl, coincidentally, 'cause I was sitting with Carl and two of my other friends, I've seen this game fifty times and the Phillies have always lost that game. You know, I'm leaving Citizens Bank Park thinking, man, they got what, three hits? That's no fun. I don't want is it it was it was everything else was fun though. Like getting there three hours before first pitch, just watching batting practice, having fun. Pat: Yeah. Sure. Mike Sambuco: getting to see the introductions, the Star Spangled Banner, the Flyover, the ⁓ four paratroopers that that jumped out of the plane to deliver the first pitch. ⁓ seeing Steve Carlton throw to Cole Hamill, seeing Mike Schmidt underhand it to Scott Rowland. I mean it was it was everything about it was the pomp and circumstance of just being there for this event that happens once every thirty years. And I would have kicked myself for decades, literally, had I not gone. And that's a shot at Carl if he ever thinks that he regrets going. ⁓ Pat: ⁓ listen, you got you gotta do it just to check it off. If I got word tomorrow, ⁓ you know, that I could go to the Field of Dreams game and they said, but just so you know, we know we looked into the future, the Phillies are gonna lose ten nothing and get two hit. I'm there. I'm there. You just gotta do the thing. And ⁓ you left out the sandlot recreation, which was ⁓ incredible. ⁓ Mike Sambuco: Mm-hmm. Remarkable. Yeah. So being in center field, you get the good shot of them entering in the right field corner on the bikes and you're like, is this what I think it is? And then it it kinda clicks i in a couple seconds later and you're like, ⁓ my god, they're doing it. This is awesome. ⁓ you sa you see Freddie Freeman having a catch with the kid, you see everybody just t all the other kids talking to their the their players that they're they're with and it's just You find out later that they're all just like normal kids. They're not actors. They're just like p kids that played baseball growing up and somehow got selected for this and it's that's what you want. Like you make these kids lives like that. That would as a kid, that would've I would have been on cloud nine for the rest of my childhood. Pat: Yeah, dude. ⁓ I I I thought that was ⁓ I thought it was all great. I thought it was all great. The actual game is always destined to be bad, I feel like, just because the 30th best pitcher is so much better than the 30th best hitter. ⁓ that you look at these you know, the All-Star game every year, I feel like is three to one, two to one, you know, four to two. It's like Mike Sambuco: And and this year you had unfortunately you had a roster of players that didn't play in the All Star game better than the actual rosters. Pat: I it's you know, and this is part of a bigger discussion that I I do wanna have. We're a little bit pressed for time today and we do have to talk some Phillies baseball at some point, but ⁓ they have to find a way to incentivize and maybe this is part of the next collective bargaining agreement. ⁓ obviously if you're a Phillies fan, a lot of the talk was about Zack Wheeler going in. But even beyond the Zack Wheeler thing, you're at a game now where judges hurt. Otani opts out. Yamamoto goes but is unavailable to pitch. Paul Skeens drops out. and I I know there were more, but there was a lot of star power. either not in the building or there and just kind of watching from the sidelines. ⁓ which is which is tough. ⁓ you know, say what you want. People shit on the NBA All-Star game because nobody plays defense. At least they get out on the field. Or ⁓ you know, the court. ⁓ I think baseball needs to figure out something to ⁓ 'cause I think that's an even bigger problem than ⁓ yeah, the fans voted in ⁓ a guy based off a name value and he's not actually playing. It's like the fans voted for him because they wanna see him there and for the guys that the fans really want there the most to not play, ⁓ it sucks and it's a slippery slope. I think baseball needs to figure that out. Mike Sambuco: Yeah, and y you have people like Buster Olney saying the All Star game's in a precarious spot and I'm like, I that might be a bit much, but I understand where he's coming from. ⁓ the the concern around h you know y you have the most marketable names not playing in the All-Star game, whether it was injury related or just rest related or pitching on Sunday and Yeah, you you wanna be able to market the All Star game so that it's it's got the biggest names in it, but at the same time you have a hundred and sixty-two game season where everybody is just pressed to win the World Series. And you look at the legacies of the players long term, they're focused on winning the World Series and This is just kind of blip on the radar. They can check a box saying that they were an all star, but do they really care if the game is won or lost? No. Pat: And that being said, and I'm glad we didn't record an episode last week, because I had thoughts on the Zack Wheeler situation that I'm totally fine with not really getting into. ⁓ but I I will say, regardless of how I felt about anything that hit he or Major League Baseball or anything did, after watching him pitch on Sunday, boy was I glad he was not out there on Tuesday throwing again. ⁓ I I think we kinda got the best case scenario out of that situation. He feels disrespected, whether it's warranted or not, does not matter. In his head it it is, and he feels like he needs to take it out on the rest of the league, and he ⁓ got to take a few days off as well. So I think that all kind of worked out. ⁓ so i if you're Mike Sambuco: I am firmly on the Zack Wheeler for Cy Young boat yet again. Let's see it happen. He's pissed off. He's feels slighted. I want him to use that as motivation for the rest of the year. And obviously into October as well, which I you know never have concerns about. But he's the type of guy clearly after the first start when he got snubbed, he he threw what, fourteen K performance against Yeah, I mean that's that's what you want to see. Pat: Mm-hmm. Mike Sambuco: But I I I love that guy, I will go to to war for that guy metaphorically, and ⁓ I support him in his decision to not go to the All Star game, but I obviously was disappointed that he said he didn't want to do it because he felt like it was a slight, it was too late. Pat: Yeah. Thank you for adding metaphorically. I'm gonna be very clear. I would go to war for Zach Wheeler literally. If he wanted me to bomb another country, I would do it tomorrow. That's how much I love that man and everything he's given to the Philadelphia Phillies. ⁓ so that's the all-star recap. Let's get into where the Phillies are at now, a few days after the All-Star game. As we record this, and look, my first question could the whole vibe of the question could change ⁓ based on the outcome of tonight's game. They're up four to one on the Dodgers, top of the sixth inning. Dodgers have two on with one out. Orion Kirkering is on in relief, so Sanchez did not give them a bunch of length today. Held the Dodgers at bay, but ⁓ Kerkering is pitching to Max Muncie, ⁓ according to my game cast, and the Phillies are up four to one. ⁓ I wrote this question today before the game started, and you know, look, a win over the Dodgers can change things. But coming out of the All-Star game, you have kind of the the weird black cloud of the wheeler thing, but i it felt like it was a really good weekend for Philadelphia and for the Phillies, even though they didn't win anything. And then you come out and you lose two out of three to the Mets. And now you look ahead and you're like, well, we got three against the Dodgers and three against the Yankees before we kind of go on the road and face one of the teams hot on our heels, the the Marlins, who are playing out of their minds recently. The trade deadline is coming up. I think it's become more apparent than ever that the Phillies need help in the bullpen. ⁓ in the rotation at this point and certainly they could stand to get another right-handed bat in the lineup. ⁓ this has been a season of vibes. The vibes were so negative the first few weeks of the season with Rob Thompson, then the vibes were so positive when Mattingley took over, and I felt like we rode those positive vibes into the all-star break. Now, ⁓ one and two against the Mets with six coming up against the Dodgers and Yankees. I feel like we are in real danger of a vibe shift. What what are your what are your thoughts on this? Wh where do you think that they're at coming out of the break? Mike Sambuco: Generally speaking, every time they don't hit, it feels like the vibes are off. And and and that's just how baseball works sometimes because like you you look at crowd reactions, especially when in the playoffs, the Phillies have struggled when they're not hitting because the f crowd can't get animated, they can't get into the game. It's harder to do so when you're in a pitchers duel. ⁓ and and it kinda is the same way in the in the dugout as well. When things aren't going well offensively, there's not as much to cheer for. ⁓ because there's and there's not that raw rah mentality of sorts ⁓ in in when you're in the field and you're cheering on your pitcher go you know, pitching who's pitching well, because you're not together. You're all isolated in your positions. So hitting's contagious in that sense that it's not only good for you know the the team and the offensive performance. It's good for that like team vibe as well. And when this offense struggles, it just looks so down and in the in in like everybody's just like f looking like they're I don't know think of a good metaphor for me. Pat: It's a tough team to watch when they're not when they're not playing well. It is a brutally unfun team to watch when things are not, you know, going well. And I I understand that vibe and performance are a chicken and the egg kind of thing, and I I I get it. But I I I feel like we are reaching the point where it's like, okay, the Mattingly thing was an injection of life into the team. I feel like with the deadline coming up, this is their chance to Mike Sambuco: I mean Pat: To perform a similar type of injection by bringing in some new talent, because I don't think it's coming up from Triple A. Mike Sambuco: I I agree with you there. I I do think that it would provide like a big move would provide the spark that this team needs, especially if it's on the offensive side. And I I I just don't know how they're gonna do it. Are they gonna massively inflate their payroll and just take on a big contract and give back little to nothing in terms of prospect capital because they don't have much to give? Or are they actually gonna go all in and trade some of their big pieces? And really like f for me, the the pieces that they have to trade are Gage Wood, like that are like high, high value, are Gage Wood and Francisco Rentaria. I do not want to trade Francisco Renteria. He's that good in my mind of like he could be the next star player that we need in the outfield. But he's just so far away that you have to at least consider it, depending on what you're getting back. Gage is the guy that I'd rather just call up. Like we need we have a clear need in the rotation and a clear need in the bullpen. If he can fill one of those holes, whether it's for the rest of the regular season and he's just running out of innings, great. Like I'd rather him utilize those innings so that we can get some some good you know, fist starter spots as opposed to having a complete dead hole in in our rotation. I just don't see a better alternative. Pat: Let me give you a couple names. You tell me if you recognize these names, if you know who these guys are. Henry Mendez and Jeremy Villaria. Those are the guys we traded for Harrison Bader at the deadline last year. when I talk about an injection of life, I don't necessarily mean a bat that's gonna transform the lineup. I would love that, but I know that they are that's gonna be really hard to pull off for all the reasons you just listed. I think the pitching right now, the bullpen with Brad Keller definitively being out for the year, which is a terrible break. Very consistent with Philly's history in terms of bringing in setup men, it never works. We talked about this a little bit via text today. We were just you and I were spitballing off the top of our head a list of everybody from Tim Warrell to you know, you said Mike Adams, who I had completely forgotten about. ⁓ just historically, the everybody they signed to be like, This is our eighth inning guy. It never, ever, ever works out, seemingly. ⁓ David Robertson, who ended up having a really nice like second act ⁓ when they traded for him, but when they brought Brought him in initially to be the eighth inning guy. He pitched seven games in two years. Brad Keller looks like he's gonna be the same same type of story, right? So they obviously need help in the bullpen. I feel like that's gonna be a little bit more gettable. The fifth starter we're gonna talk about in a minute. I don't know what they're gonna do for offense, but I went back and looked at that Bader deal because I'm like, that's what they need. They need somebody in the same way that frankly. Mike Sambuco: Could have the same type of story. Pat: Derrick Hill was an injection of life into this team. I never expected it, but I they don't have to go out and trade for Aaron Judge or, you know, a a big superstar, but they gotta get somebody in there that can can help. And just kinda like I'm a firm believer that Mike Sambuco: Yeah, I I think rentals are gonna be their friend this year in terms of minimizing the prospect cost. And and I I I think they just have to suck up some of the money or all of the money in these deals so that they can minimize that cost. ⁓ y you look at I mean it's the pirates, so take it for what it is, but th th there was a report out there saying they they wanna, you know, add pieces, but they don't want to add salary. Like like like they're afraid of paying anything else. Pat: Yeah. Mike Sambuco: ⁓ but it's it's that's our competitive advantage as a big spending team. We need to maximize that while we can. ⁓ who knows what's gonna happen after the CBA expires. But I mean, if there's one good thing to come out of the caller injury, it's that you definitively know, as opposed to not knowing if he's gonna come back well or Pat: Yes. Mike Sambuco: Not like I you know, before the injury I was thinking or the second injury, I was thinking he's gonna come back at least as a serviceable seventh eighth inning guy. Like serviceable. Maybe he's good to great. Now we can't even say that. And you know, you needed one to two bullpen arms before that, and now you need even more potentially. Pat: Yeah. I I listen, I I hear you, man. I would prefer choice number one is don't blow out your UCL, but if the options are doing it in the middle of July or the middle of August, I will take the middle of July every time. You know what you need to do now. You gotta replace him. I frankly was not surprised because I was there in Milwaukee for what ended up being his next to last game. The last one before he went on the IL the first time. And that guy ⁓ he had no business being on a major league mound. Something was Yeah. Yeah. Mike Sambuco: He had no command. I remember that game vividly. He had no command. We he we were lucky to get out of the inning he got out of and you could tell he just wasn't right and him going on the IL right after or shortly thereafter was not too surprising. I am a little surprised I went down this road, but y then then again, I shouldn't have been. Pat: Yeah. Yeah. Hey, listen, w w whatever the case may be, they gotta go out and they gotta, you know, bulk up the bullpen now because it's it's a it's a big loss. It's a big loss almost more in theoretical value than literal value, because I don't think Keller certainly over the last month when he wasn't playing, he wasn't contributing anything, but I don't even feel like he had a very good year leading up to that. It felt like there was always traffic on the basis. I never trusted him in high leverage situations. he wasn't a disaster, but i he certainly wasn't what I would want out of an elite eighth inning guy. Mike Sambuco: He had his good moments in bad, but y you just felt more comfortable with him than pretty much everybody else in the bullpen after Duran. I mean, like even Kirking maybe, but Pat: Well there in there in li ⁓ that lies that therein lies the problem. And we were talking about Kirkering and when I started when I brought him up it was because ⁓ I was giving you a live update. The Phillies were up four to one. He was on the mound. It's now four to three in the bottom of the sixth. So ⁓ I don't like the bullpen. I think they need to do some major overhauling. I would also be fine with calling up Gage Wood and giving him some innings in the bullpen. Throw something at the w you gotta try you gotta try something. And ⁓ you know, I would rather have those ⁓ five to three on a Brandon Marsh Homer. So we're we're back a little bit. If Brandon Marsh if he can have a second half eighty percent as good as his first half Mike Sambuco: Starting to get out of his slump, I hope. Pat: will be in good shape because Trey Turner, by my math, is four hundred percent better than he was a month ago. So Mike Sambuco: Three out of four games with a home run for Turner I'll after the All Star break, I'll take that, ⁓ at the very least. Not not a I mean, it it's shaping up to be like a a twenty twenty three all over again, just without the standing no. Pat: Yeah, yeah. he ⁓ he gave himself a standing O, I guess. He's he's figuring it out. He did make a brutal error in the first inning tonight. His fielding is still really, really tough to watch, but Mike Sambuco: Yeah. It's part of the reason why Sanchez couldn't get into the sixth, I guess. Or but Pat: I know. It's a it's a killer. Hey, listen, wh wh while I have you here, because you know, you're our prospects guy. The Phillies called up Alex McFarland today. ⁓ I believe it's his second ⁓ call up of the year, but he didn't get any games the first time. So if he gets in a game, it will be his major league debut. ⁓ he he's just kind of an extra arm right now, ⁓ after the bullpen got a little bit taxed ⁓ you know, over the weekend. But I wanna know what is your what are your thoughts on McFarlane, but also just that fifth starter spot in general. Is there any hope that the solution can be found internally or do they have to go out and get somebody on the the trade market? Mike Sambuco: I'll I'll start with McFarlane because I'm ⁓ I I'm excited that they called him up. I don't know if it's gonna be a long term call up or something just to fill the gap until they need a fifth starter again. But this is a guy who's hitting triple digits consistently and is a type of arm in the bullpen that could easily fill those late inning roles that we desperately need, which is why I don't understand why he hasn't been called up to triple A or even the majors before now. Like we needed his arm. It's not like we had to DFA anybody to get him up here. He already was on the 40 man roster. Like something doesn't make sense to me. whether they're they were trying to protect him as like prospect capital for the trade deadline and at that point why not just call him up like I like and and see what he has in the big leagues because he was just mowing down double A hitters as their as their running ⁓ closer. So I'm excited to see that because I mean I'll take any arm with a heartbeat at this point. but On the fifth starter side, it like it sounds like they're just trying to get through using off days ⁓ into a four man rotation, and quite honestly, that's what they need to do until they trade for somebody, because whether it's just a ⁓ a bullpen piece or a sorry, a swing man that could go into the bullpen in the playoffs, which is like the ideal type of guy, ⁓ serve that long man role or like a two inning, three inning guy in the in the playoffs if needed. Like that's what they need so that they can get the f the fifth spot in the rotation covered for the rest of the regular season and then actually be a useful piece potentially in the postseason. Because what they've done his in the past couple years is their fifth starter hasn't touched a ball in the playoffs. And Pat: Yeah, or shitty. Mike Sambuco: They're just sitting in the back of the bullpen waiting for like an eighteen inning game. And it just like find somebody that could be useful in both the regular season and the postseason. Because they don't need one guy that does just the fifth starter for the rest of the regular season. Pat: Especially when your fourth starter is Aaron Nola. If you had four good starters if you had four good starters. Right. But I you know, they needed to use Aaron Nola, and they used him essentially as an opener last year in LA. He pitched two innings and then Ranger Suarez came in and pitched five in relief and it actually worked out. But the idea that Mike Sambuco: Yeah. Piggyback the two in the playoffs, 'cause you'll need a four starter in the DS. Pat: you know, ⁓ the fifth starter once we get to the playoffs. A the playoffs is not guaranteed, so we should not be saying when we get to the playoffs. We should not be doing that. ⁓ And if you by the way, the the fifth starters, I believe, this year ⁓ in that spot, the Phillies are five and twenty in games that they have started, whether it's Taiwan Walker, Andrew Painter, or insert whoever else here, ⁓ you keep running out ⁓ one and four in every five games in that spot, y you might not make the playoffs. But if you do, by the way, and that fifth starter, let's say he's good. Guess who's the new fifth starter? Aaron Nola. Get in the bullpen, buddy. Wait for an eighteen inning game. That's I I would be way more comfortable if they brought in somebody to be the quote unquote number five and then he was really good or at least serviceable because Aaronola has not been serviceable. ERA of six last year, it's five sixty eight so far this year. ⁓ he's been terrible so to me. Mike Sambuco: You definitely don't trust him in the postseason and and so you can get I I would say the fifth starter woes have definitely taken the heat off of Nola a little bit, which is kinda remarkable. ⁓ but i it doesn't it doesn't take away from the fact that you actually are concerned if he has to start a postseason game. Pat: Let me ask you this. Let me let me let me go through this, because I I have the I have the the stats for the year pulled up. And there's guys I'm looking at like Orion Kirkering, who has a two thirty seven ERA coming into tonight, and yet I don't feel good when he's on the mound. I'm gonna give you a name, you tell me, do you trust this person in the playoffs at all? At all. Okay? Johan Duran, obviously, yes. Tim Meza, you feel good with him on the mound in the playoffs? Mike Sambuco: Yes. Pat: Orion Kirkering. Mike Sambuco: Maybe like fifty percent of the time. It's like a let's let's just do a range because I'm just gonna say no for just about everybody, ⁓ if not everybody. ⁓ on a scale of one to ten my trust of O'Rion Kirkring is about a five. Pat: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay, that might be the high water mark for the non Duran part of this bullpen. Jose Alvarado. Mike Sambuco: It might be. It might be. I I'll go back and say Mesa is in that like four range. Pat: Maze is in the four range. Jose Alvarado, who by the way I give you a lot of credit for, earlier in the season we had an episode where I like, Give me your level of concern on various players, and you were sounding all the alarms on Jose Alvarado, and you have been proven to be a thousand percent correct. ⁓ negative zero point six war, six sixty two ERA. You want him on the mound in October? Mike Sambuco: Not in the slightest. Pat: How about Jonathan Bolin? Mike Sambuco: So I actually I do ⁓ think Bolin is turning into their eighth inning guy. ⁓ I f I would much rather him not be the eighth inning guy and be like the sixth seventh inning guy. So they need that somebody in between Bolin and Duran. But of the non Duran players, he's the highest. I'll give him like a a seven. Pat: Which is crazy that we've gotten to this point where Jonathan Bolin is the most trusted member. You don't even have to give me numbers for the rest of these guys. I'm just gonna throw ⁓ out there just a as an illustration of how fucked we are. Chase Sugart, four sixty-five ERA, Tanner Banks at seven fourteen, ⁓ Kyle Backis, five eighty seven, Seth Johnson six fourteen, Max Lazar, five sixty three, Zach Pop, three sixty eight, which is basically, you know, Mariana Rivera in this bullpen. ⁓ Mike Sambuco: I mean ju just about all of those have been up and down multiple times this year. to the point y I mean, th th th there's they're just on the forty man and they can be optioned, so they are optioned and they're back up and down when somebody's hot and somebody's cold. Pat: Yeah. Last activity, I'm gonna give you ⁓ I'm gonna give you five bullpen pieces. You have to guess who has the lowest ERA this season. You ready? Jose Alvarado, Tanner Banks, ⁓ Kyle Backus, Seth Johnson, and Garrett Stubbs. Stubbs. Mike Sambuco: Stubs. Pat: Garrett Stubbs at 540. We are in a lot of trouble. ⁓ that being said, you know, like I say, vibes could be really, really good if they take ⁓ you know, four out of the next six against the Dodgers and Yankees. Give me a prediction for the last six games of this homestand and ⁓ it y you don't have to even tell me who, but when we meet again next week, will the Phillies have made a deal? Will there be something for us to talk about? Will there have been a trade? ⁓ Gimme those two things, next six games and will they make a deal in the next week? Mike Sambuco: Next six games highly dependent on if they truly skip the fifth starter, which would be the Saturday game, we would we would find out ⁓ if Sanchez is pitching or if again. ⁓ I think they will go ⁓ ooh, I think they're gonna go three and three, I just haven't decided in which format. ⁓ which which team they ⁓ take two or three and which team they don't. ⁓ but I will say I do not think they will make a move. ⁓ prior to the end of this week. I think it's all gonna come down to the wire. The last three ish days is when things will start getting ⁓ heating up and ⁓ I I there's no doubt in my mind that they'll make moves. It's just a matter of how many and how significant. I'm worried that they're not gonna go significant enough to get most of the fan base excited, but sometimes the smaller pieces are all you need. Pat: That's very true. Winning cures all, and this whole thing could have been avoided if they had put a little more urgency into the rotation in the offseason. We talked ad nauseum about how the plan to go into the season with Andrew Painter to be your fifth starter with not even thinking about an innings limitation or anything like that. It it seemed short sighted. Now those chickens are coming home to roost. Dave Dombrowski has to make a move, he's got to do something here. ⁓ because yeah. ⁓ it not that it should just be about getting the fan base excited. You should make your team better, and if they win, the fan base will get excited. But boy do I feel that momentum from earlier in the season starting to slip. I hope that I'm wrong. I hope that they ⁓ they take two out of three in each of these next couple series, and we have ⁓ something really positive to talk about next week. I just think the next ⁓ 10 to 12 days are gonna be really, really big for the Phillies, and ⁓ I'm a little bit concerned to be honest with you. Mike Sambuco: I agree with you on that. I think I mean this this season will be made or broken based on how they treat the trade deadline. I'll leave you with this. ⁓ one last all star game tidbit. The last time the all star game losing pitcher was a Philly was two thousand eight. We won the World Series. Pat: No kidding, who was that, Hammels? Mike Sambuco: That was a Brad Lidge ⁓ on that walk-off sack fly at Yankee Stadium. Let's hope that Chris Sanchez's ⁓ inning with three runs allowed does not go for null. Pat: That's right. He was Mr. Perfect, except for the All-Star game. All right. Well, from your lips to God's ears, the Phillies just went up eight to three. So the vibes are already changing from the beginning of this podcast to the end. ⁓ big home run for Trey Turner, his second of the game. I I take back everything I said a few minutes ago. I'm now very excited about this team. Only bright skies, ⁓ and sunshine ahead. ⁓ hopefully. If not, we will ⁓ we'll be back here to discuss it next week. ⁓ Mike Sambuco: Well, you're in LA, so that makes sense. Pat: Exactly. ⁓ thanks as always for for watching. If you're listening to this on Spotify, make sure you ⁓ drop us a review on there. We should be on Apple Podcasts very soon. I gotta figure out what's going on there. They they're they're weird. But we're on Spotify now, we're on YouTube. ⁓ like, comment, subscribe, all that kind of stuff. ⁓ and then we will see you next time on the specific Johns podcast. Go fills. Mike Sambuco: Fails.