Latest / Reframe / 22: Benjamin Maze - Full Spectrum vision & the outdoors

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22: Benjamin Maze - Full Spectrum vision & the outdoors · Reframe

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what truly fuels a creative mind?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: What ignites their passions and drives their creativity?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: G'day, I'm Dean McGuire, an Australian fine art photographer.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: From the moment I stepped into the world of photography, I have been captivated by the community and the stories behind the lens.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Join me as we delve into humble beginnings, explore artistic visions, and discover how we as a collective reframe our minds through the power of creativity.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Before we dive into this episode, I'd like to give a quick shout out to the incredible team at Easy Filters Australia.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Easy offer world-class products like high-quality filters with minimal colour cards, an impressive range of cinematic lenses, and various other accessories to fuel your creative endeavors.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Easy Australia actively supports the greatest photography community through workshops, educational events, and live streaming webinars on YouTube and other social media channels.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: As a special tree, Easy Australia are offering all reframe listeners.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can even combine this with our promotions for the discount by using the code reframe.com at checkout.com.au today.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you and welcome to reframe.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Today I had the chance to sit down with Sydney-based landscape photographer Ben Mays.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Join in the conversation as Ben happily takes us on a journey from where his passion started, who influences him, and the next steps in his rising career.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Ben is a student of his craft and is continually learning from every shoot.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not only do his spectacular landscapes speak to the soul of a scene, but Ben's intimate landscape collection also truly capture the details, curves, and lines found in our natural world.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ben is a true testament to the next generation of photographers here in Australia, and I hope you enjoy listening to his evolving story.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Ben.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing today, buddy?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good thanks, Dean.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Good to be here.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh thanks for joining me, mate.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was a struggle getting you on due to technology.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: How good.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, got there eventually.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Got there eventually.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, can't live with it, can't live without it.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um before we get into the uh photography talk and obviously the real estate work you do as well, I'd love to know a little bit about your background and how you got into photography and the the process that you've been along the way.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, so yeah, I kind of grew up always drawing, painting.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, that was always my sort of thing as a kid.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, like I just remember growing up my whole life wanting to be an artist of some sort.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, when I was a kid, I would like remember in primary school I wanted to be like a book illustrator or something like that.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, like I'd spend my weekends doing little, like learning watching YouTube videos and on how to do like draw different things and going back and copying it and um you know, painting it out in the back deck with um, yeah, little cheap acrylics and stuff and making a mess and having a good time.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think I went through like a graffiti phase or something like that in year seven.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um public property was damaged in the process, but yeah, it was just um, yeah, just like it really explored with all that creative stuff a lot when I was young and yeah, right through high school as well.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think my dad had like a really old, like I think it was a Nikon D70, like six megapixel sort of DSLR.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Just a standard kit lens with it that he'd just used for family stuff every now and then.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think like it was late year seven or early year eight that I sort of picked it up and started playing around with it and take photos of the dog in the backyard and you know, take photos of the Christmas lights in the city if we'd go in around that like late December.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just all that kind of stuff.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I just very quickly fell in love with the medium.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just had a lot of fun with it right from the get-go.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so yeah, like I go up the street and take long exposures of the cars driving by and thought that was the coolest thing ever to discover long exposure.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just all that kind of classic stuff.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Discovered the clarity slider and made a lot of bad looking photos.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't we all mate?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and then sort of my so my grandparents live up in the Blue Mountains.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we I'd already already spent a fair bit of time up there and we'd go on bushwalks, and then you know, when I got into photography, we'd start um bringing the camera along, like down Lura cascades and all that kind of stuff.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then uh 2015, my family took a couple of trips that I think really solidified uh the passion for landscapes, which was um, so we did Tassie in autumn and then New Zealand in spring.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that was like New Zealand was my first overseas experience.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think in between those two trips, I got my first wide angle lens, which was uh Tekina 11 to 16, the classic sort of uh crop sensor um yeah, wide angle lens.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, without breaking bank either.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was a few hundred bucks, which was I thought it was a lot of money at the time.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um I got got my own like sort of camera that I split with my parents, the Nikon D5200, I think.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been a Nikon boy right from the start.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, those two trips really like, especially seeing, you know, proper mountains in New Zealand and um some of the waterfalls and like the Catlands area.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: We did a very typical sort of itinerary.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, I couldn't do much photography because I was, you know, been trying to like dragging my family of six behind and be like, guys, stop.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, I want to, you know, take a photo here.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they'd be like, oh come on, Ben, we've stopped like 10 times already today.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is that enough for this?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think, yeah, yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that really, I think, solidified the passion for landscapes.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um my parents still have a like a 36-inch print of uh shot that I got of the Church of the Good Shepherd from that trip, which I begged them multiple times for me to swap over for something more updated because I'd like just nitpick everything in the photo because it's so old now and I didn't know what I was doing.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, that was yeah, that year I think really sort of solidified that.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, yeah, just re like through social media, started taking lots of influences from a lot of the American guys, like Ryan Dyer and Ted Gore was a massive influence for me in the earlier days as well, like 2016 through 2019, I'd say.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I really loved his work.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, Eric Bennett, Alex Noriega, all those sort of guys.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then yeah, finished high school at the end of 2018.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then just, you know, 2019, I just kind of went mad because I finally, you know, didn't have to go home and study, or like I I had my license, I could go out and you know, shoot sunrise if the conditions looked good.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, go to all these places that I've been seeing on Instagram for years.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if I had 50 bucks to my name, I'd spent 25 on petrol to drive down to Kayama for a half decent sunrise forecast.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, um, I just really exploded with it and just had so much fun.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, got to meet up with a bunch of other Sydney photographers and develop some friendships there that I still have today, which is really awesome.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, guys like Maddie Hopkins and uh Ryan McCarthy and Ray Chow, a few of those guys.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, it was a really good year.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, big time.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and then just and then sort of halfway through 2019, I uh really started exploring the more intimate landscapes as well, just sort of started integrating those.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh whereas previously I'd pretty much solely just been doing those sort of big dramatic wide angle stuff.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um leaning towards the more heavy processing because that was what my influences were doing more.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, just sort of slowly started falling in love with also integrating those like smaller scenes, those more abstract or textural sort of scenes.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um because yeah, I just found it really fascinating how you could, you know, you go out and get your wide angle shop, but then you could still keep shooting for another two hours if you wanted to, looking into those little details.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I found it to be a really awesome creative challenge to start with.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: It tickled my brain in the right way.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that's just continued to expand.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'll still shoot 14 mil grand wide angle stuff today and love it just as much as I did five years ago.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I also continue to just try to push myself with more creative, or not normal creative, but just different ways of interpreting the landscape, um, whether that be yeah, focusing in on little patterns or uh silhouette or more symbolic compositions, like you know, trying to show something that is maybe more than exactly its literal subject matter, um, all that kind of stuff.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I think just having a very wide range of inspiration means I'm always finding new ways to try and push myself and finding admiration for many of the amazing photographers out there.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, what that does as well is that also you utilizing that time um throughout the entire day instead of going out shooting sunrise or sunset with all the about 12 hours in the day just left behind.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in regards to the difference between your landscape work and your um intimate scenes, do you do you find that you're bringing in a different type of viewer across the board or is it kind of the same?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Are they mixed or are they um I I think there's definitely I mean the intimates are almost a trend now.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they they they are a trend pretty objectively, um, and have been for the last couple of years.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think yeah, there's definitely a much wider appreciation for it in today's day and age than there was maybe five years ago.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I mean, when I started doing it, I like yeah, in 2019, I noticed a few other people were starting to sort of explore with that as well.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: They were seeing how, yeah, how it was such a cool way that some of these other guys in the US and the like the UK and stuff were interpreting the landscape in a more intimate way.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think you definitely do get um people that appreciate it both across the board.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but then there are more people, there's definitely people that will more appreciate the intimate side and people that will more appreciate the grand side because um yeah, people have different connections to the landscape.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, it's I I I naturally gravitate towards both for whatever reason, but uh there are people that just naturally, you know, love the the way their heart, their like the the grand scene gets their heart racing and the adrenaline and the um the climax sort of of how epic that is, and that's just as legitimate as you know, what liking both, and it's just as legitimate as people who enjoy just purely the small scenes and just get tired of the landscape or the wide angle stuff.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, yeah, there's there's a full spectrum for sure.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of printing, which do you print more of?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, either for yourself or the landscape with someone purchasing your work?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I can't say I get many prints, to be honest.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: If anyone wants to go grab one, um, but yeah, I I think um it's a mix, really.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think the intimates actually lean themselves a little bit more towards it, just the more simplistic textual stuff.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think different markets appreciate different styles of prints.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I feel like the American market really loves the bombastic grand scenes.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think the Australian market's a little more chill.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um although you still get, you know, your people like your Mark Gray sells his very grand, colorful work very well, all that kind of stuff.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I probably just don't get enough prints or orders in a year to see much of a trend.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's pretty, yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty evenly split, but with a slight trend towards intimates, I'd say.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of good though, because you then open yourself up to multiple sales when they do come in.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh exactly.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, the current uh financial climate doesn't allow many people to be able to spend money on on our work, which is crap.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've also noticed uh on your website here, you've got a lot of this uh kind of abstract um kind of wave sort of ocean sort of work as well.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um take me through the process of that and and where that came from.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's a that's a particular gallery that was actually all captured in one morning.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um really so yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that was just um, yeah, I think it was May, early May last year, uh so 2023.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was May 8th was the date.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um the Sydney coastline just got hit with like just record-breaking swell.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was more than a record, but yeah, but it was just enormous.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like there was a seven meter, eight meter swell in some places.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I saw that coming maybe five days out on the sort of uh I think it was on Windy that I saw that wave prediction.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I kept an eye on it and just kept getting stronger and stronger.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was initially hoping to maybe go down to um Kayama or shoot the bombing or something like that, but I ended up just going to uh Kernell or the Kamehotany Bay National Park, which is what's the closest thing that I could consider my local.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's still a 40-minute drive from me, but um yeah, so went out to the cliffs there and it was just monstrous.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um just yeah, just mammoth waves just lurching up in the ocean and pounding into the cliffs.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I just spent like three and a half hours shooting those waves in this beautiful light as well.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's this big dark bank of clouds on the horizon, but then the sun rose up above it, and so it just created this beautiful golden highlights in the waves while also providing this really moody, dark, dramatic backdrop behind them.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just an absolute play, like yeah, a playground.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I had a blast, shot like over a 64 gigabyte worth of cards um in one like in that one session.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I had a car, like a mechanic appointment that I pushed back like three hours so I could keep shooting.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, it was awesome.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I just um yeah, shot a couple thousand frames and held it down to my favorite 50-ish, I think, whatever it was.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um still a few photos that I didn't end up publishing that I'd like to publish elsewhere, just maybe in my intimates gallery, um, that I just felt like didn't fit uh that collection as well.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, like I haven't done much surf photography before.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not like my thing necessarily, but um yeah, I I just it was one of the most adrenaline, like heavy experiences, and just like I just had this massive grin plastered across my face the entire morning because it was just yeah, just overwhelming the senses in every sense of the word.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, yeah, it was awesome.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm I'm going through it here now.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the good thing about it is um it doesn't really look like you've shot it all on the one day because you got you got different um tones here from when it was the sun was obviously rising or low in the sky there.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then you got some nice blues coming through, but I actually really like the black and white, no surprise there.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: But these black and whites that you got, um that they actually translate very well.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, my favorite from the gallery would be um one of the black and white ones called Canuslopus, which it looked has the resemblance of a wolf's head in the wave.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um which, yeah, it was just insane for me to when I finally noticed that I was blown away.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I initially processed that image in a very different way.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: I cropped it differently.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was in full color, it has softer contrast to it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think I actually, when I was processing it, went to to select or create a luminosity mask, which when you're doing that, previews it in black and white.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And when it switched to black and white, I just noticed the head right away.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't see it in color, but in black and white, it popped out to me right away.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh my goodness, that's the comp.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I need to focus on that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is now a black and white shot, no question about it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I haven't done much black and white work traditionally.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think um, I think before that gallery was it released, I think I maybe had one or two at the most black and white shots in my portfolio.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I just felt that the raw power of those waves really lent themselves um to black and white, especially when I liked the shape of the waves, maybe the colors weren't as good in those shots, or I just wanted to mix it up a bit.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, no, it was it was really cool.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, like you said, I got some like before the sun broke the um cloud bank.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So there's more of those bluish tones before the sun broke the horizon.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I think what I enjoyed most was finding like the sort of the similarities, like the shapes, like visual similes in the composite compositions.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I've got one called the polar bear, uh, one called the huntress, uh one called uh some other sort of ocean spirit sort of style one where you can just see these figures and heads and shapes and all these sort of things in the waves that um just happened in a split second.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously you don't have the your mind can't see interpret that stuff fast enough to actually, you know, capture it at the time deliberately, but you just look back through the photos and you just notice this stuff, and it's like, oh man, that's yeah, um just such a split second thing, and it makes you wonder how many you might have missed.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um because yeah, it's just changing every every millisecond.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, that was a very memorable morning.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, had a really good time shooting that.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the um the I'm gonna talk about the black and white stuff a little bit more here though as well.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I kind of find that the the light that you've the way you've exposed these shots, they land perfectly to it because you've got a good um amount of black in there, which a lot of people don't seem to do because they're scared of the deep blacks.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then you've got the white and these mid-grays.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've you've you've kind of nailed those.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, thanks, bate.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, it's it's it's not usually by expertise.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've I'd like I'm not I don't get into the science of black and white.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think some people are very technical with their black and white processing, which is you know good and probably the right way to do it.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think um I was just vibing it, just playing it, just going purely based on whether I liked it or not.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And if I wanted it to be a bit more harsh and not not crunchy, but um, yeah, just just a bit more visually intense with more contrast.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then if I felt like it was clipping too much, I'd raise the shadows in one area or something like that to soften it out.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, I had a lot of fun playing with that because you can you you got a little bit more license uh with the with stuff like the contrast that you don't really have as much in colour.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um like if I had the same level of contrast in the black and white shots, in the colour shots, the colour shots would just look ridiculous.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: So um it is fun playing with that.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's a different way of approaching a shot for sure.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's definitely nothing wrong with uh not having that technical mindset with it.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you that.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you do need that creative eye because you'll get distracted.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um onto your workshops, mate.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how how long have you been running those for?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what enjoyment do you get out of teaching other people?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think my first one was probably 2021.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like a Kayama sort of weekend workshop.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I just I think 2022 I did a few more like sort of five-day ones, and I've been sort of slowly increasing it from there.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I I really get a lot of satisfaction and joy from helping people sort of connect the dots in their photography.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and sort of yeah, helping them accelerate their sort of process of saying, okay, this is like just a rock or a branch, but also how does it work visually?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like um, yeah, helping people see the world like in lines and shapes and colors and contrasts and textures rather than their literal elements.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: I find is what I uh illustration I often use to help people sort of interpret the world in a compositional manner rather than a literal manner.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's like that's how I how I shoot personally.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like I if I'm shooting a tree or if I'm shooting whatever, I'm looking at it in terms of visual balance and not necessarily the actual elements of the shot.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um because it helps you to be objective.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, if you look back and squint at the shot, it works perfectly, even if you don't know exactly what's in the shot.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, helping people with that sort of balance is something that I find a lot of joy from.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, like I I think a highlight that I had in a Tarkime workshop that I ran with Paul Holand last year uh was we had a young guy who um he spent a lot of time up in Norway as like an Aurora guide.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And his his thing was sort of like just shooting skyscapes of the Aurora and all that kind of thing at like 14 mil or even wider.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so and then by the end of the workshop, his favorite shoot was shooting like textural patterns of like foam on a river or like on a on a on the water.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like so, um, I was like, that's just so different to the other stuff that he's used to shooting, and he could have easily just been like, ah, no, I'm only interested in like the wide angle stuff.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, helping people to see the the beauty and the interest and the fascination in those maybe more overlooked things and be like, actually, this is really cool and fun and interesting to shoot and see the world in this way.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: It means that I don't know, it just yeah, to get that appreciation for every part of nature rather than just like the the most single grandiose thing you could ever witness.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that's something I find like really good as well.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, because it just it's it's uh a holistic appreciation of nature and its beauty is something I really, really love to advocate for.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because there is yeah, amazing stuff everywhere.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: You just gotta have the open mind to look for it, I think.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think I look um through your website here again.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a good place for a reference right now.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you do a couple in Tasmania.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the challenges um trying to run a workshop in places that are quite temperamental in terms of landscape and trying to leave no trace there?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are some of the big um issues you have there trying to get those over the over the line?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so I mean, yeah, Tazzy's very um protective of you know things running in their national parks, rightfully so.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um so there's lots of lots of paperwork to go through for uh putting those together, um, which you hope that people are doing when they're running stuff down there.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh and so yeah, there's like just there are some workshop formats that are almost sort of Like, not really much of a possibility because uh there's just so much involved to make it happen.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, it's it's good.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: It means you know, these beautiful places aren't downtrodden with irresponsible groups and everything like that as much as they would be otherwise.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in terms of like the weather, it's very changeable weather in Tassie.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um so for the most of the ones we've done so far, I've just pretty much been playing it by ear, depending on the weather.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so having a lot of possibilities and then changing, like deciding what we do within a couple of days rather than a fully outlined itinerary months beforehand, um, which just means that we're making the most of the weather that we're given.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we get a day that's bucketing, well, that's you know, rainy and just completely gray gray skies, we're not gonna go, okay, well, we scheduled a seascape shoot, so we're going to go to a seascape shoot.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be, no, we'll go into the rainforest and make the most of these conditions.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then conversely, if you've got this beautiful blue with sky with high clouds and everything, then you know, going into the rainforest rather than going to the coast would just be a bit of a waste.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, so yeah, trying to trying to have lots of options and uh tailoring it to the actual prevailing weather conditions to help people make the most of it, um, I found to be really good.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that does mean it lends itself to a certain type of workshop.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: So um there's probably, yeah, there's ones in the future that I'm working on that will be a bit more fixed because it's just the nature of um maybe a bit more all-inclusive sort of style workshop.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: But uh yeah, for those more adventurous sort of ones where people are like enjoy being flexible and uh making the most of those conditions, then um, yeah, that's the format I tend to enjoy.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of the risk you play with uh joining a landscape photography workshop.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: You've kind of got to roll with the punches.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's and I think it's also a good lesson to learn for you guests as well.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um to be able to pivot and move to another location as you're coming along because that's what we do in the real world.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I like we can't go in and be like, okay, we're gonna guarantee that you're gonna get a beautiful banging sunset.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: That may not happen.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like it might you get completely completely clouded out.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: So going into it without, yeah, trying to not set people up for failure in terms of tunnel vision and all that kind of stuff, um, is something I like to avoid, like or I like to do.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's something that I sort of like personally do with my own landscape photography.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, there's been many times where I've gone to a shoot or like to shoot something, and it's just the conditions have meant that that doesn't work.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so I end up pivoting to something else and being like learning to be content with that um and learning to be okay with like, all right, well, what I was hoping for didn't work out.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna go back to my car all bummed uh and just disappointed because that's just that's crap, that sucks.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, having that mental flexibility and creative flexibility um in in order to take those punches, keep rolling, find something else to shoot, because there is always something to shoot.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um like there's no such thing as bad light, as TJ Thorne put it in his ebook, which is a great e-book that anyone should read.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and was actually really helpful for me a few years ago.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, there's always something to shoot.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's that there's only bad light for certain shots.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, harsh midday light isn't going to work for a wide angle seascape shot.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it might work great for shooting backlit foliage, or it might work great for shooting, you know, ripples in the water, or it might work great for something else.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and then you know, a flat overcast sky might be terrible for something else, but really good for say the rainforest or a waterfall or something like that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, there's always things that you can do.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you just gotta have that open mindset towards it.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so we try to foster that through the workshops.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're definitely spot on with the there is no bad light.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I actually enjoy shooting midday, full sun.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it's not ideal for a lot of people, but it works for me.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Same, same with flat light is the best.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, no, I I agree.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it also strengthens your skills as a photographer and a creative or even a videographer.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're actually shooting um out in those, because then you know if you get a job or a a commission job or something, then they want it at that time, then you teach yourself how to do it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I mean it just means that you learn how to let your composing and your actual skills as a photographer do the heavy lifting rather than the light and the conditions.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because if you if the light and the conditions is a crutch at all times, then you know, um, I think it's easy to become lazy and just rely on that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's you know not working out, then you can always just blame these external factors.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, it's up to you to come away with a good shot.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's plenty of photographers who are absolute masters who actually choose to not work with those glorious moments of light.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's a couple of podcasts with uh Hans Strand, who's just an absolute master.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, anyone who's not familiar with his work should look it up.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, it took me a while to appreciate his work because it's a bit more flat, it's a bit more gray in terms of his processing and the light he chooses to shoot in.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: But uh when you look a little closer, they're often often very complex compositions, but the way he uses complexity and still has order within it is actually mind-blowing.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like it'll like, yeah, if you if you sort of do it a quick scroll past an Instagram, it might look messy, but you look at it, it's like, oh my gosh, this all flows perfectly.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: All these little lines coming in from the corners.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: So stuff like that's really good to study and see, okay, why does this work?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: How has he made this more flat light okay and um work really well in his favor?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Have you done any workshops yourself?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I remember seeing your stuff pretty much right out of the gate when you joined Instagram and it's like, oh, this is pretty damn good.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I'm just looking at your work and I've just gone, you've just come along so far.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just wondering if you went did any workshops along the way, or if you've just all self-taught by trial and error and and using like things like YouTube and stuff like that.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um thanks for that, mate.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I've never done an in-person workshop, no.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I did like have I get a few like editing tutorials from people that I admired.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, your Ted Gores and your Alex Noriegas, and um I think I got TJ Thorne's.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, um, I think what I got one of Eric Bennett's back in the day.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um just yeah, that which sort of helps with my processing and stuff.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um then from there I just kind of yeah, uh blended what I and what I appreciated from those and developed a few things of my own.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but yeah, really the in terms of the actual photography stuff, it's um I've never had in-person intuition with that.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's just been um I just absorb a lot of photography.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I consume a lot of other people's work, um, whether that's on Instagram or in uh books that I've bought over the years.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um I find that just having I find that that just sort of builds up this mental library of how I can interpret a scene.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um that yeah, I I think yeah, it's just accumulated into my own sort of style somehow over the years.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I I can sort of like go through my photos and actually pick out different influences on each individual photo, and it there'll be hugely varied.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I might I was looking to my New Zealand gallery the other day, um, or not the other day, when I was working on it, and I could pick out, be like, okay, that's um that's a Lizzie Shepherd influence.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's an uh maybe Ryan Dyer influence from way back in the day.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's a Sarah Marino influence right there.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's a like, you know, just huge range of people that I really, really look, look up to and love their work and I'm always blown away by their creativity.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's just sort of slowly morphed into my own thing um that I've been told is cohesive.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I can make the claim myself, but I'm I'm hoping that it does come across that way.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, so yeah, I I think when I was learning, I was, you know, I was a high school student, I couldn't afford workshops.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: I just it was just not even an option.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so in that during that really sort of learning key pivotal phase for me, I was developing myself.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just it since it wasn't an option, I just sort of had to figure things out uh for myself, which I think, you know, meant I was probably slower with becoming as proficient as other people would be that, you know, do take those workshops.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what it did do has been that I became my own photographer rather than a junior of someone else.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um which, you know, uh like I try to, like on my own in saying that being a workshop leader, um, I try to make not make people be like a junior of myself.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I try to encourage people's own individual creativity and recognize like what's their natural direction that they want to take their photography in and encourage that and help them to get there rather than be like, this is exactly how I shoot it, you should do the same thing.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I don't think that's helpful.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it is actually quite interesting to hear you say that because a bit of advice I was given to when I first started was find those photographers or creatives that you want to aspire to be and then copy them until you don't have to.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of it's very similar to what you've done.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: You've just um taken your influences and moved them and and used it to to grow you into your own work.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, um, I think it's a it's a great thing to do.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's a difference between influencing and copying.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for sure.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to find that fine line.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, big time.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, for someone who's in like one or two years in and like they're still trying to learn the rope.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: So like even stuff like comms not being for someone like that could actually be good as long as they're you know attributing it to be like, hey, I I like I copied this person to see how they did it and all this kind of stuff, like and not trying to claim it as their own composition.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: But um learning, like finding, finding that, figuring out, okay, what steps do I need to take to actually get to this place that this person did?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: How did they do that?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, both with in shoot in field shooting and you know post-processing later on, um, I think is a really awesome learning experience for anyone.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you just the key part is actually moving past that phase.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can't stay in that phase or else, you know, you'll always just be behind um and never developing your own style or anything like that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, using that to get yourself to proficiency and as well as you know, trying to seek out your own stuff.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: But there does have to come that point where you are actively seeking your own work and individuality and originality and quality all in one.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's where you grow fastest for sure.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I couldn't agree more.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um just quick question about um like in regards to COVID, because you were really hitting your strides and then COVID hit.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: How did how would how did you navigate that?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as long as everyone else was struggling with it too.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I just look at it because yeah, you're really coming into the scene then and you're making heaps of waves, and then COVID hit.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I wonder how that really affected your progress and and your ability to get into the market.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: There was, I mean, early on, like for the first year it wasn't too bad because yeah, while I was shooting so much in like 2019, I'd built up a bit of a backlog.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I had some like editing that I could work through.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did reach a point where trawling through the archives wasn't you know yielding any more results.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: So um I did sort of use that time to try and develop myself like a website and a little bit of an online sort of like um business, all that kind of stuff.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it I think it did help me with yeah, those two things, getting through the backlog and then working on my website, working on online services, all that kind of stuff.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think those are important things.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad I actually had that time to make to develop those.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, like you know, two years down the line, I was pretty ready to get back out there.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I think I I was actually grateful for some of the forced time that I had to work on that stuff and think about it and all that kind of thing.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think I put out my first video editing tutorial during the pandemic um and started offering online tuition and all that kind of thing.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was good practice and a good reason and yeah, to force me into that, that sort of pinch of not being able to go out and shoot.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then sort of yeah, having those foundations once I got back out into being able to shoot post-pandemic, post-lockdowns.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that was that was a positive thing for me.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um I yeah, I I don't really, I haven't really spent much time dwelling on what might have been.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I don't think that's healthy.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: I just sort of, yeah, just try to take um take the positives from what I did get out of it, which um, yeah, I did find to be helpful in the end.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I just got right back into it once it opened up, went to Tassie, I think 2022.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was in Tassie four times that year.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, just yeah, just got right back out into it.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was like the same, it's like it felt like getting back into 2019, like just um yeah, went hiking in the southwest of Tassie and up in the northeast.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, put together a few gallery releases around that time.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, yeah.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: So no, I I I didn't find it, I think there definitely would have been other people that were doing a lot harder than I was.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: I did like I was on I was on government financial support.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was uh at the time I was doing real estate photography for my work, and obviously that got completely shut down with um with the with the pandemic.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: So but you know, I was a 21-year-old living at home.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing all right.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, I I'm I can't really complain compared to many other people's situations that they would have had.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, did you find you came out of lockdown with uh fresh eyes?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did you see things a little bit differently when you came back out?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um not necessarily.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was just super stoked to be back.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think I think I did come out and like being a slightly better photographer than I was coming in just because lots of time indoors.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think I just spent a lot of time enjoying other people's work and just again, it was just that sort of a couple of years or a year and a half or whatever it was of just um again building up more of that mental library um of appreciating more people's work.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was slowly maturing in uh my personal tastes and how I liked to shoot and interpret a scene.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, like I had lost a couple of Fazzy trips uh that to the pandemic that fell through a couple of times, um, and then yeah, got down to the southwest in early 2022 with um Lyle Cuspert and Michael Kenny, which was a great time.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, I think I just got into that year, just yeah, like I said, just super stoked to be back and with a slightly more mature taste in how I wanted to interpret the scene.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, how how do you go jumping into real estate photography after having this like deep passion for your landscape work?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh so yeah, out of school, I was just like getting like doing like cafe retail stuff.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um 2020, I was working at Georgia's cameras and the CBD in Sydney.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just doing like stock take and all that kind of stuff.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: I probably would have crossed paths with you many, many times.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: We probably did, yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: I probably sent you an order at one point.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, probably.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and then I went like during one of the times where it opened up, I went to Wallamai National Park with Jose Luis Cantabrana Garcia, who's another Sydney photographer.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry if I butchered your name, mate.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh he he's a real estate photographer and um a very good landscape photographer as well, loves his astro work.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I was just basically clean to get any work in photography at it like at all.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, so he uh gave a reference to uh the company that he worked for.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if he still works for them.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he might.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so and then yeah, 2021 I started doing real estate photography as my um my full-time work, uh, which was just on like a bookings basis um for a company called Dear Crit.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they're an international company, actually.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, they just offer real estate photography services.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing that in the floor planning and all that kind of stuff.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, so obviously it's very different to landscapes and less not that landscapes is glamorous, but uh less nice uh shooting a lot of the time.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and part of it was not photography at all with the floor plans, but um, I was just grateful to have any to be able to do photography as my work.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um and some of it translated pretty well, like working with wide angles and um, you know, lines and vectors and all that kind of stuff, and um even you know, multiple exposures, all that kind of thing, uh, or bracketing.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, and then I slowly kind of I'm I'm with some different guys now uh that live locally around the Shire sort of area, Sutherland Shire sort of area in South Sydney, and they do stuff all over.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'm I just do stuff with them Tuesday through Thursday.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then Monday and Friday I use for sort of my own bookings, um, which is less real estate work and more um yeah, stuff for like construction and styling companies and all that kind of stuff.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so more for like, yeah, website branding and social media, that kind of stuff, which is often a lot nicer.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: I can get I've got more creative license.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about showcasing the space as like to be as wide as possible and all that kind of thing.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's more about, you know, form and um finishes and detail and all that.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, it's just yeah, they're all prepped and looking beautiful when I get there.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: So um I really, I really quite enjoy it really these days.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'd be pretty satisfied if landscapes doesn't become a full-time thing and it just become kind of becomes stays a full like a split uh between the property and the landscapes because it just means that I have less pressure on the landscapes um for that to perform and be my sole source of income.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think yeah, it's just nice to have that safety net with something with an industry that's always going.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's work that I enjoy for the most part and find to be pretty safe and comfortable.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I'd like I'd I'd like to break into the higher end of the market as when I can, but for now at the end, it's it works pretty well for me.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing like making an income doing your passion anyway.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So why not?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um exactly.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you had to choose a location anywhere in the world to only shoot for the rest of your life, which one would it be?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got a fair few here.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it'd have to be either Tassie or New Zealand.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I absolutely love Tasmania.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's really my special place.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I think I I I say either that or New Zealand because I think New Zealand has more untapped potential simply because of such a massive, like it's a much bigger country than New Zealand than Tasmania.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, Tasmania being a state, not a country, but I think there's just more of those wilderness areas that no one's ever touched or you know, photographed or anything like that, which will Will Patina shows us every every single year.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I which I got to experience briefly um in October last year.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I think what what Tassie lacks in scale compared to New Zealand, it makes up for in character.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something I've I've said a few times before.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think just it's you know, the sheer array of unique foliage and flora and uh even the local wildlife, even though it's not something I shoot, it's just so cool.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um being in New Zealand without like any native mammals and all that kind of stuff, um, it felt a little stark uh in comparison with you know Tasszy, you'll be driving along and you might see you know a spotted qual, a Tassie Devil, um, wild birds.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's just so much like patty melons and wombats everywhere.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's just so much awesome wildlife down there.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um whereas, yeah, in New Zealand, I think that we might have encountered a native bush pigeon and then like some invasive geese.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know, it's just a different world.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's I think just because uh Tassie's a lot more ancient and has had that time to develop those unique um characteristics, I just find it to be so endearing and something I'm so fascinated by.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just got this unique, rugged character that I think is not matched by anywhere, or not matched, but just so different to everywhere else in the world.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and so yeah, I really love it down there, but I would not complain if I also had New Zealand for the rest of my life too.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um Tassie also has a wild luke, uh, a wild Luke and Paul Holland down there.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I've got some good mates down in Tassie too.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, no, I I love it.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm quite passionate about uh showcasing Australia and Oceania um as a photographer rather than being an international photographer.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think I feel like that's become increasingly rare, is that people are patriotic when it comes to their own country's landscapes, and especially in Australia.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think you I feel like Australia, more than other countries, has people jetting off to Patagonia and Iceland and the States to shoot before they cover their own country.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um because we don't have those, you know, three, four thousand meter peaks.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have, you know, the black sand beaches and stuff.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I think yeah, I think Australia's got so much unique, um, incredible work and sorry, landscapes and places to showcase that.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd really like to be an Australian based photographer and not this, you know, not someone that follows the international hotspots.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's something I feel quite passionately about.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're spot on there.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Australia has so much untapped buddy locations, you just got to go and find them.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, we all live on the coast, so you're in between these.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mountain like Blue Mountains, you got Southern Highlands and stuff like that that kind of bury like a barrier from you to the coast.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, there's so much.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you actually get out and have a look, follow maps, look at uh terrain and all that sort of stuff, you'll find something.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just depends on the time you have, the money, because it can get expensive to continually drive to these places.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I can understand why people jet off because sometimes it could be cheaper, but um, especially going to New Zealand, like it's it's cheaper to go to New Zealand than it is to go to I mean Melbourne or something like that sometimes.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, like, I know, uh, like I'd love to shoot the desert a lot in the future.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's not something I can really do because I don't have a car that's appropriate for it.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, like it, you know, 10, even 20 years down the line, I'd like to have a really strong desert portfolio um from all over Australia.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, even covering like some of the like great Australian bite, there's some awesome dunes along there, um, getting up to the Dane tree and all that kind of thing.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um the the gorges and stuff over in Western Australia and in the central like um Northern Territory, um, like Chewings Range, all that kind of thing.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, there's just there's just so much.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much in it.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like Australia's a massive, massive country.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, swathes of it are yeah, just desert and outback, but within those desert and outback areas are some really incredible, like that just that that red desert stuff is so unique.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you like you need to go to the right place so you're not just in the middle of nowhere, but there are some really special stuff.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Tom Putts got some awesome stuff from up north as well.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like if there's um, I can't remember what the foundations are.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, it's there's just some amazing work up north.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so yeah, no, I I've got lots of long-term plans, not like nothing super solid, but um just things that I'd love to showcase further down the line.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um Tassie's very much the current focus, but I can see that shifting to some of that other like more desert-based stuff in the future.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, because you know, I feel like yeah, Ken Duncan was like, you know, covered the Australian desert like such an iconic thing that he did.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then it just kind of stopped being as much of a thing for some reason, uh, for people to shoot.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's a couple people like Christian Christian Fletcher shoots us of shoots it a fair bit out there.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um for sure.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so does uh Scott Lego does as well.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, they're fit the work that they get is fantastic.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, big time.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: So there's definitely people that still do it for sure.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um just not as many.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's massive, yeah, just not as not as many.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um just considering how influential Ken Duncan's work was originally.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, you got those.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like the sort of Christian Fletcher, Tony Hewitt, um, those sort of guys, like that sort of aerial style is a very iconically Australian thing these days.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like the and even what like um Tim Wright and that sort of aerial thing, uh, I feel like is a very if we were to attribute a s a mainland Australian style, I feel like those desert aerials are actually one of our biggest exports in terms of landscape photography.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and rightfully so, because it's pretty awesome.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think more like ground-based work is something I don't see quite as much.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Would you ever jump go down the route of um aerials?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would you ever jump in a plane and and and try hand at it?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, not at this point.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um like I I'm sure I will at some point.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's not something I've got a massive interest in doing personally right now, uh, for a couple of reasons.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a very saturated genre in Australia right now.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a lot of people that have done it very, very well for many years.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, we've got Paul Holland, we've got you know uh Christian Fletcher, Tony Hewitt, um, even Peter Eastway, all those sort of guys um who've done some stellar aerial work for years over in that Shark Bay and all those sort of areas.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I don't know.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's a very expensive, very expensive form of uh photography, especially since I'm not actually living in the states where those sort of things are.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd have to fly to a different state and then book a very expensive flight to be able to shoot it.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll just be competing with these guys who know these areas off by heart and have created stellar work there for years.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think in terms of return on investment, um, I'd prefer to do a bit more ground-based stuff in areas that are photographed less.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um that's where, you know, that's where I've developed my style and I'd like to continue down that route rather than um trying to maybe, I don't know, cash is not the right word because it sounds cheap, but um yeah.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'll like I feel like I'll leave that to these guys who have dedicated um so much of their mastery of the craft to it already, um, rather than try to jump in on it.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good answer at this point.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good answer.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and I can totally get what you're saying, because that's kind of why I do what I do, because it's like anyone can go out and you know, take these photographs, or not anyone, but we can go out and take these photographs at any time because we've been doing it for a long time.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like if you find your niche, you know, why not stick to it and let the other guys do it and admire it from afar and go to their exhibitions, buy their books, and do all that sort of stuff.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, speaking of locations and trying to find something that you find unique that I haven't seen before, like what is your process in terms of finding something unique?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I like I had like I'm I'll be to be perfectly honest, I haven't done like heaps of like topographic map sort of stuff.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's something I'd like to do more of in the future.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um because I think yeah, most like so many things have already been shot at least once these days.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um obviously, very, you know, there's there's still a bunch of places out there um that haven't, but most of the time I'll just see like one sort of like shot from a place that looks really promising, even if it's just like a crappy YouTube video um from someone who's hiked it.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh damn, that looks sick.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to get in there.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Or if it's um, yeah, like my most recent hike into the West Coast Mountains of Tassie um was very much inspired by a single image captured by Rob Blake's a while ago now, um, of this yeah, amazing lake scene, which I ended up getting this sort of aurora over.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh so yeah, like I might just see like a single image from an area that's like I'm really fascinated by.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll go in and do a do a big hike and explore that for a while.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so not not with the goal of copying anything, but just it might be like a single image that inspires me, and then I'll check out a lot more than beyond what that photo that originally inspired me did.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, it's it's often I'll I'll just find something that'll be like that will really get me going and uh just makes me want to check it out and for myself.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and because yeah, because I'm still not full-time and I'm not living in Tasmania or anything like that.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do need to make sure that I'm making the most of any trips that I do.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um so um, but yeah, because like the way that I shoot these days with yeah, more creative interpretations of scenes and like less iconic shots.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I'm pretty confident like that I'll be able to come away with stuff that isn't just um an iconic shot that someone's already got before.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it just means that if I I if I know that it's already good, then um I can just sort of go in and make the most of it.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is moving to Tassie something that you would consider in the future?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um if I was the only factor in my life, I'd probably be living there already.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's uh yeah, just stuff like family, my girlfriends here.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um even just like my property work and my I'm currently doing doing weddings as well, but I'm facing them out currently.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh yeah, just all like all my all my sort of bookings-based work is based in Sydney.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: So um, as much as moving to Tassie would be great, um, I then need to spend probably a couple of years building up a local reputation once more, um, and probably working some sort of part-time job while I'm doing that.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, and yeah, my girlfriend would has a very sort of CBD-based um occupation.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: She's in an architecture firm, so that obviously um yeah, tends to lend itself to being more closer towards that sort of um area.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm pretty, pretty content with Sydney.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's not necessarily like super local to anything that I shoot, but it's in between everything.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's very easily accessible.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, like I said, like Kernell's probably my closest location, about 40 minutes from me, but um I've got maybe between an hour and an hour and a half to Kayama, the northern beaches and the Blue Mountains.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm like a 20-minute drive from the airport if I need to fly.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I can just, you know, I don't have to stay at a hotel or anything the night before an early flight or anything like that.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm pretty, I'm honestly, I'm pretty content with where I am because I I tend to condense most of my shooting into these couple of week-long trips these days rather than going out every weekend.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I kind of, yeah, or just put myself in a place that really inspires me and then just get into the zone for those two weeks and really just have all that built-up creative energy just spill out for like two weeks in this epic place, and then I'll come back with five, 10,000 photos to work through and um just make that my project until the next two-week trip.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, I'm I'm pretty okay with um with that setup at the moment.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, if things start working out down the line, that it makes sense to move to Tazier, but definitely be keen for that as well.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'll bet you're young enough to go anywhere, so you're fine.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you start throwing kids down the line and then yeah, yeah, you're not going anywhere.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what what's next for you um in terms apart from like your workshops and things like that?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got anything um that you're working on, any projects that you've got in the works?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um the only like sort of long-term thing is a trip that I can't really say anything about because it's in a rather um undiscovered spot at the moment.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it is international, uh, one of the rare international trips that I'd like to take.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's with a couple of other guys.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um that I'm yeah, so I'm quite excited about that, doing a bit of training uh for some altitude hiking at the moment.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, keen for that.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: That'll be yeah, a couple of years down the line because it's a bit expensive and logistically heavy.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh but besides that, no, I'm just uh like wanting to get a few more sort of tutorials out, a few more digital products for people.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, try and expand the workshop's offerings, um, which um yeah, hoping to announce a couple more uh coming up.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I'm working with uh an international company for a TASI workshop at the moment, which I'm excited for.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: So that'll be late next year, hopefully if that goes ahead.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um couple more TASI ones and just local ones as well.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, I think I I I'm a bit of an easygoing guy.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: I tend to take things as they come.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not great at the whole planning years ahead kind of stuff.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm not really, you know, got these five, 10-year goals of anything.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think like I I have got vague sort of directions.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'd like to make a put out a book one day of uh like Australian or Oceania rainforests.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like rainforests have become a little bit of my thing over the last few years.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh and so yeah, I'd like they're they're environments that I just really, really love and enjoy shooting and connect with on a quite a deep way.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so yeah, like a rainforest photography, like fine art book is something I'd really love to do.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's it's not really feasible at the moment, and I'd like to expand my sort of portfolio of those before I even think about it and do it properly.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so yeah, just some some general ones and like one or two specific ones that I'm actively working towards.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, yeah, like I said, I'm I'm not much of a future planner and tend to just be like, oh we'll see what happens and um have a couple of things that I know I want to do and just take everything else as it comes.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: You just said that and um that you when you do the rainforest, you kind of come away with this um connection on a deeper level.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of um how does how does your creativity reframe your mindset for everyday, everyday life?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think yeah, I think the the rainforest, I think, is just such a like it's an environment that is just so clearly teeming with life and important, like they're just such an important ecosystem for our planet.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think it's really yeah, connecting with the rainforest has really uh shifted me towards being much more passionate about conservation.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, preservation of these places that are just irreplaceable, or at least irreplaceable for several lifetimes.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, so I think yeah, what I think it was really 2022, um, actually, no, earlier than that, 2020, I went up to New England National Park, um, certainly like sort of inland from Coffs Harbor.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there's sort of the uh yeah, temperate rainforest in there and Dorigo in there.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I just really, really connected with those sort of mossy trees.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and but it was also like quite worryingly dry when I went in.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I was like, oh man, it'd just be devastating if this thing, you know, went up in flames.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you hear stories about the Columbia River Gorge back in the day when that whole fire happened, and um, there was the 2020 Australia bushfires, and you hear about like some of the some of Australia's tallest trees being under threat, like the Mountain Ash trees um from dry lightning strikes and all this kind of stuff, and just how dry the landscape was, um, just putting these incredible ancient ecosystems under threat.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then the the human threat as well, like as Tazie's government, I won't get into too much into politics, but oh my gosh.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just the way that they handle their natural resources by converting hundreds of year old rainforests into wood ships and sending them overseas.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, they acted like in in areas where there's heavily endangered species.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's just it blows my mind.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I I don't understand the mind frame where you can see these ancient rainforests and endangered animal species and think that it's a the best way to utilize them is to chop them down.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, and it's like especially for an industry that operates at a loss.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I won't get into too many, uh yeah, too much politics.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, uh that kind of stuff just just makes me like realize the power that photography can have.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, because beautiful photos of the rainforest is what got me to appreciate them, and then actually being amongst them and um shooting them myself and seeing what's done to them has made me in turn much more passionate about it.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if my photos can help just one more person um, you know, think more about what we're doing with these irreplaceable um ecosystems, like you know, a tree, like every tree is not necessarily equal in value.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like chucking up a an actual eucalypt in a you know in a pine plantation uh is not the same as a 400-year-old myrtle that's part of a rich ancient ecosystem.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not the same.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: And saying that you're just planting a tree for everyone that you chop down is not uh doesn't mean that you're you're gives you the right 100% sustainable.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, it's um I think the and the rainforests, yeah, they're just such a clear, like there's obviously much more um going on elsewhere besides rainforests as well, in terms of the ecosystem and um, you know, mismanagement and uh unsustainable practices.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's just such a clear one for people to uh be able to advocate for as protection.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, not put stuff like tailing stams in the middle of the Tarkine and stuff like that.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's been one of the biggest things for my daily sort of reframing of this stuff is just that uh yeah, experiencing it for myself and then seeing what we have to lose.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if you uh had any tips for someone coming into the world of footlandscape photography and they really idolize your work, what what's something that you would give them to get them on their way, not just in the photography world, but also in conservation and leave no trace?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um in terms of just photography, uh just do it for the love for love, like for the love of it.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think, yeah, I don't I'd I wouldn't I'd be careful to uh prescribe anything besides that.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because if you're doing it for attention or likes or growth on Instagram or whatever it is, you are gonna burn out because landscape photography sucks if you don't actually enjoy it.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um getting up early and driving and spending your money on travel and spending hours in the dark room and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not fun if you don't actually do this for the love of it and for wanting to creatively push yourself.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do it for likes and engagement, then you know, the state of Instagram these days means you're not gonna get that unless you're doing dances on reels.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so uh yeah, it's just um you got to do it for the love of it.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do it for the love of it, then you will organically grow in your skills and you will because you want to, because you like doing it, and um aspire to be your own photographer, um, which will set you apart in the long run.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it might mean that you get there slower.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm as of 2024, like I've been shooting for probably 10 years now.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, I'm I'm hitting my stride now, but it took me uh it was probably till 2019 that I started creating photos that I would act well, I'm still actually happier to keep in my portfolio.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what, five years down the line.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so have patience.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, be like trust the process, do it for the love of it.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you'll you'll get there eventually.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just be happ, like be okay with it taking a while.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and just be and always just be wanting to push yourself as well.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like don't stagnate, um, don't settle into a crutch.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just try to yeah, engage with other photographers' work and see what makes it work.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you see other people showing appreciation for another photographer, but you don't get it, think okay, well, why don't I get it?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or why why do I not appreciate it?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is it valid that I don't like this or am I missing something?
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think just that sort of studying of other people's work can be really helpful too.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um in terms of um conservation and leaving no trace, um yeah, not seeing the landscape as something to be um, I don't know, used for your benefit, like not seeing landscape photography as something for you to just always draw on.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's it's just there for you to, you know, gain attention for.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: It should be something that you're a receptacle of.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: You are um yeah, it was there before you and it should be there after you if we if we do things right.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, there's a reason there was a natural order to our world.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, I think I think photography in all forms should be uh nature photography in all forms should be appreciation and preservation.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like the goal should be appreciation and preservation um of these natural places because if you think it's beautiful, then you should want it to stay.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh yeah, and that that's not to you know bring in other genres where people are making maybe making beauty out of ugly things.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are people that will incorporate like um into like you know, people they shoot like the mine, the mining, tailings, dams, and stuff like that with all their crazy colors.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's sort of like a meant to be a bit of an oxymoron and it's beauty versus what it actually does to the landscape.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but in terms of these actual, you know, natural landscapes, um, yeah, if we think they're incredible and important, then we should be, you know, um even if you're not outspoken about it, even if you're not using your platform to be like, hey guys, you know, donate to these causes or whatever.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh just in your own practices, you know, not scraping moss off um your trunks and yeah uh, you know, um leaving rubbish everywhere.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, just go in and leave things as you found it and show love and appreciation for these places that you're that you're capturing.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: The landscape is a gift, it's not a right.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: And on that note, mate, um, I really want to thank you for joining me on the show.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're you're battling through a little cold there.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: So sorry if I've sounded a little congested.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right, mate.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably gonna go to sleep now anyway.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um enjoy the rest of your day, and I hope you get out and um and get shooting soon.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get going, um, where can people find your work and check out your workshops?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, so just head to www.benmaysfinart.com.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that's b-n-m-a-z-e finart.com.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can find all my links on there.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that even links to my socials as well.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I sell yeah, fine art prints, uh, which I'm I put a lot of effort into when I do, when I do get an order.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can see some back, like sort of example photos on there.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I release yeah, galleries on my website, so you can you know browse my work there.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um I offer online tuition and tutorials, so as well as you know, some start to finish edits that I've got available for purchase.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can also um get one one-to-one, you know, live online sessions with me where we can tackle whatever you want to grow with in your photography, whether it's editing or technique or you know, whatever it is that you think would you get most out of those sessions, those are available.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we can yeah, work on your your actual work rather than an example of mine.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, there's workshops.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I I'm diversifying my workshop offerings at the moment, trying to get some more weekend local ones as well as some five-day uh more in-depth on location uh ones interstate uh as well.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so, and I've got a page on my workshop philosophy there too, if you're ever interested in sort of how I approach these things.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I very much my my goal is for you to come away as a better photographer, not necessarily with a list of hero shots.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because even though that's an easier product to sell, um, we can't guarantee it because we don't know what weather we're gonna get.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think long term, the yeah, a win is if you come away feeling more confident to tackle these scenes on your own.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um I don't want you to feel reliant on other people.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to grow as a photographer in your own creativity um on these workshops.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, if you're interested, feel free to shoot me an email if you've got any questions.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: And if you'd like to see a workshop anywhere um that I don't currently have a listing as well, let me know.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and then Instagram's just Benjamin.maze, Facebook's Ben Maze Finite.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, if anyone's on Facebook anymore, anyway.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah um but yeah, yeah, awesome.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: And for any of those have missed those um those links, I'll put those in the show notes for you as well.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: But um thanks again, mate, and I hope you keep kicking goals for the rest of this year and into the future.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, cheers, mate.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me on, Dean.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: No worries, thank you, and we'll catch you on our next episode.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: See ya.