Latest / The Uncensored Catholic / Show 65: The dangers of the Prosperity Doctrine and suffering like Lazarus

Transcript

Show 65: The dangers of the Prosperity Doctrine and suffering like Lazarus · The Uncensored Catholic

0:47
Hey, y'all, welcome today's show. Today we are going to get into
1:04
a very well, it's an interesting topic. Well, it's the nature of
1:11
suffering, you know. I think Catholicism is probably unique, at least these
1:18
days in our understanding of suffering. Many, I U should say, many
1:26
Protestant churches seemed to wish to deny that Jesus promised us not joy in life,
1:34
but suffering. There's a prosperity doctrine, you know. I remember when
1:40
I was at a certain Southern Baptist university, a professor, his wife and
1:46
daughter had may have been more than one child actually had been killed I think
1:51
in a car accident, and well, understandably, he was devastated. I
1:57
mean, he couldn't. You know. They gave him a certain period of
2:00
time for bereavement leave, you know, the whole bit, and then they
2:05
expected him to get back to work. He was, you know, one
2:07
the heads of the I guess the theology department or the divinity department or whatever
2:14
it was, and he couldn't. He was still grieving, he was still
2:19
devastated, and people kept saying, if you were a true Christian, you
2:23
would just be happy that they're in Heaven and you have work to do here
2:28
on this earth and your joys in Christ, and a true Christians shouldn't be
2:31
sad or grieving. You should have this joy, this smile in your face
2:37
all the time. That's not only contrary to human nature, to say the
2:46
least, it's unbiblical. Jesus wept when he was told at Last Orus had
2:52
died, even though he knew he could raise him from the dead. That's
2:54
not only a natural human emotion response, but it's actually part of what makes
3:02
us. Well, it's a human but I mean, and yes, that
3:07
was Jesus is human nature, but it's part of what opens opens our heart
3:16
to God. If we didn't have that strong grief, that devastating, crippling
3:28
grief, how how much hope you know, would we have in the promises
3:36
of Christ that would be reunited with our loved ones in heaven. We're part
3:40
of the family of God, and when one part of you know, they
3:45
said, it's like the body of Christ. If one part gets cut off,
3:49
the entire body suffers. We desperately want to be reunited with our loved
3:58
ones. That that's our nature, and to deny that it's also incredibly psychologically
4:04
harmful, and you know, I won't say much about it, but you
4:13
know a lot of messages like that were given. You know, you're never
4:15
supposed to be sad, You're never supposed to be angry, You're never supposed
4:17
to be upset about anything. And a lot of the people I probably shouldn't
4:26
say much, but I would just say, you know about a certain scandal
4:30
that happened at a Southern Baptist university where the chance or the leader of the
4:38
school, who got that position just due to who his father was, was
4:44
found to be abusing drugs and having He and his wife were swingers, and
4:55
he seemed to be particularly interested in gay sex. A lot of those who
5:05
embrace that prosperity doctrine that be filled with the joy of Christ and go along
5:12
acting like everything's always great on Like think about Joel Ostein. I don't know
5:15
anything about Joel Ostein, but you know that big grin he's got on his
5:18
face and all the time. To me, he's like the poster child for
5:23
that that way of thinking, that heresy, it's actually a heresy because it's
5:30
actually denies what Christ said. Christ said, if you are a Christian You're
5:34
going to suffer. You're gonna be rejected. Pick up your cross and follow
5:38
me. People will hate you, you will be poored, you will be
5:41
struggling, you will be sick, you will be in pain. He never
5:45
once said becoming a Christian is going to make you successful and happy, not
5:50
in this world. He actually said it would be harder for a rich man
5:55
to get into heaven than a poor man. Now, let's not saying there's
5:58
anything wrong with wealth. Sometimes God gives someone you know, a little extra
6:02
money and they should use that money to provide for their families first and secondly
6:08
to help the church and the poor, you know, to share their wealth.
6:13
That's their their role actually in life. But never once just God say
6:20
the Christian life is going to be easy and avoid of suffering. I have
6:24
seen so many people, so many people who adapt, adopt or adapt to
6:30
I guess I should say that way of thinking that the Christian's supposed to be
6:35
happy and joyful and just filled with the spirit all the time. And they
6:40
think that, you know, there they deny the sufferings of life, and
6:47
they really pay for it. I've seen a lot of marriages that have failed.
6:51
I've seen a lot of people who are very active in their church.
6:58
Some even ministers who who are drug addicts secretly, you know, I mean,
7:03
and they're just eaten up with guilt. Even worse, a lot of
7:08
them who have who are real you know. I knew one in particular who
7:15
was a very prominent religious and political leader who had extreme sexual addictions and basically
7:25
every money he every bit of money he made was being spent on prostitutes and
7:31
major psychological issues, major guilt issues. He had some upbringing issues. I
7:43
would venture to say that he didn't think black people were quite as on the
7:49
same level as white people. You know, there's another good reason to be
7:55
Catholic, where the you know, universal church. But yeah, when you
8:00
in the South and black people go to their church and white people go to
8:01
their church and the two never mix. That's that's really the way Protestantism is,
8:05
especially in the South. You have your am Zion church where the black
8:09
folks go, and you have your Southern Baptist church where the white folks go.
8:13
You're not going to see a black person really in a Presbyterian or a
8:16
Methodist church unless it's a you know, African Methodist church. It's it's it's
8:22
a thing, right, And they're Black Baptist churches too, but they very
8:26
much do separate along racial lines. Well, I think he was an older
8:30
man, and I think he had some racial issues, and for some reason
8:35
he would only hire really unattractive black prostitutes and a lot of them are crack
8:46
addicts. And he seemed to have some serious guilt issues that caused him to,
8:54
we would say, degrade himself in that way in his view. Obviously
9:01
not in the eyes of God. He was degrading himself. Certainly in the
9:03
eyes of God. But his choice of you know, black prostitutes was not
9:09
it would not be an issue for anyone but him or perhaps his family and
9:13
his friends and those who thought like he did. So he would choose like
9:18
kind of the worst thing he could pick up, and they he got caught
9:28
in due to the prostitute's drug addiction and exposed and well to talk, you
9:39
talk about what they call fall from grace. And if the man had just
9:46
been willing to look in the mirror and admit to himself, I don't have
9:50
to keep putting on this smiling mask. Everything's not okay. Maybe I have
9:56
some problems and I need some help. And he did. He needs and
10:00
some you know, I won't say psychological help, because if he had gone
10:03
to a modern psychologist psychiatrist, they would have just said, there's nothing wrong
10:07
with you, everything's okay, go sleep with as many prostitutes as you want.
10:11
You know, that was basically what Freud was teaching. That's kind of
10:13
what psychology is based on. Your sexual desires are the main thing, the
10:20
biggest motive and driver in life, and if you're not satisfied, everything else
10:24
is wrong. Right, so any perversion is acceptable. I'm sorry. That
10:28
actually was kind of what psychology was founded on as a medical discipline, and
10:35
it's what it's evolved into. It's been absolutely taken over by homosexuals and pedophiles.
10:43
So but if he could have and he wouldn't as a Protestant, if
10:46
he could have gone to a sensible and devout an Orthodox Catholic priest for confession,
10:54
you know, he might have had a really good life and his family
10:58
wouldn't have suffered that disgrace, and those associated with him wouldn't have suffered that
11:03
disgrace because he was one of this very big in the pro life movement.
11:09
And yeah, it took his organizations he took a big hit. Anyway,
11:15
we're gonna get into that, but let's start with radio replies. Look,
11:20
let me tell you want to find some nasty stuff looking in North Carolina politics.
11:22
I'm just telling you, North Carolina has long been known to be about
11:30
the most I mean, it's like, right up there was Chicago and Louisiana
11:33
as being like the most corrupt, nasty politics of any state in the United
11:41
States. So I got to live that way for a while. And I
11:43
could tell you a whole lot of stories about a whole lot of people,
11:46
but I won't. Won't. It's a sin to spread scandal, And by
11:54
no means would I even hint or indicate the person I'm talking about. But
12:00
that person's example, and you know the chancellor at that Baptist university, and
12:05
oh gosh, Jimmy Swagger and many many televangelists, you know, Jim Baker
12:13
North Carolina. Again, how many can we look at? But then again,
12:16
we can look at our own church. You know, thanks to the
12:20
influences of psychologists and psychiatrists, we turn the church into a closet, and
12:24
we talk about pedophile priests. Well, is anyone noticed that they're always praying
12:28
on little boys. They're actually homosexual priests. But we are not allowed to
12:35
say there's anything wrong with homosexuality anymore without offending people. Well, the Bible
12:41
says that homosexual won't go to heaven. The Bible says at homosexual sex is
12:46
an abomination before God. But we, thanks to the influences of psychiatry and
12:52
psychologies, to quit saying that, and we welcomed in a couple of generations,
12:58
three four generations of homosexuals into a big closet called the seminary, and
13:05
surprise, surprise, they started molesting little boys. Who was the last time
13:11
you heard about one of these pedophile priests who actually molested a little girl.
13:16
See, a pedophile is attracted to, you know, children, But somehow
13:22
in the Catholic Church, they always seem to go after little boys. Now
13:26
why might that be? M I've got an inkling, I have an idea,
13:33
And you know, maybe maybe we should stop normalizing effeminacy. We should
13:41
say, you know, that's a psychological disorder and you're going to struggle with
13:46
it, but this is still our morals and we're not just going to assume
13:52
that you, as a psychologically damaged person, can become a priest and uphold
13:58
devous of chastity, because experience has shown otherwise. But anyway, the question
14:07
or in radio replies picking up on the book radio replies from yesterday, who
14:11
was obviously a communist says, will religion get us our bread and butter?
14:18
The priest's answers or the priest's answer, I might just as well ask you
14:24
whether we can get milk out of a locomotive. However, her religion does
14:28
inspire the supplying of bread and butter to innumerable people through thousands of charitable societies.
14:35
Person says, I don't miss much by not having a religion. They
14:39
answer, religion is the virtue of justice, which renders to God the honor
14:43
and worship due to him. You're a Marcus like saying I don't miss much
14:48
in refusing to acknowledge my debts. However, you do miss more than you
14:52
think. Person says, I am well known and respected, and they answer,
14:58
you may be well known and respected by fellow men, but though you
15:03
are well known by God, he does not respect you for you neglect your
15:05
obvious religious duties. And I was just speaking of few men who are remarkably
15:15
respected by their fellow men until their fall, because they were not following the
15:22
truth, the truth of the true religion, or the truth of acknowledging their
15:26
sins and repenting and reforming their lives. They covered everything up. They went
15:33
around with a smile, They went around slapping people on the back. They
15:35
were the most affable, charismatic people you can imagine to all the world,
15:41
the absolute picture of happiness and prosperity, and someone absolutely blessed and favored by
15:48
God. And then came the fall. All we can do is pray that
15:58
we can see our own faults and that never happens to us, because it
16:03
will. God will humble you. God will absolutely if there's one thing you
16:07
can count on, whether in this life or in the next, God will
16:15
humble you. So a few months ago I wrote an article from Mizzio Day,
16:22
you know Missio Days, the website I write for Gospel reflections at least
16:26
once a week. Right now I'm doing two a week, believe it or
16:29
not. It's Missio Day, Catholic dot org. And this was back in
16:34
March, you know, it was Lent, and it was you know,
16:37
a very good time to think about suffering. Obviously, all our mass readings
16:41
are very oriented toward that. During Lent and the reading for the day was
16:49
the story of Lazarus and the rich Man. Everybody, every Christian at least
16:53
knows this story, right. It's you know, a story of Lazarus is
17:00
the poor man who's a beggar, and the rich man doesn't even really give
17:07
him the crumbs from his table, and they both die and they have to
17:11
sort things out in the afterlife. Right. Well. The interestingly, you
17:17
know, all of our master readings the Gospel is always in context of readings
17:21
from the Old Testament and sometimes a second you know, reading from the New
17:25
Testament on a Sunday or you know, a Holy Day or whatever. But
17:30
this one was preceded by Jeremiah seventeen five through ten and Psalms one one through
17:37
two, three, four, and six, so that would be one through
17:41
six. I don't know why they have to make it so complicated, but
17:45
on the surface these passages would seem to convey a very different message in the
17:51
Gospel. And really this passage from Jeremiah and this Psalm are among my favorites.
17:59
You don't I'm an outdoorsman. I'm a woodsman. I make my living
18:03
in herbal medicine and wood carving. I'm a gardener of a forager or a
18:07
hunt and fish. I love when things are put in like the analogy of
18:14
nature in the Bible, and it's often to me these are the most beautiful
18:18
passages. You know, it's in nature that I find my purpose, my
18:23
joy, my serenity. I mean, this is where I belong. One
18:27
place I do not belong is in an office or in a classroom or anything
18:33
in a structured environment. I you know, my entire childhood growing up,
18:41
I was a bad student. I was rebellious. I only wanted to be
18:44
out in the woods. I wanted to go fishing. There was a classroom
18:48
with a window. I was staring out the window. That's the way I've
18:49
always been, and that's the way I'm always going to be. But from
18:56
Jeremiah, it says, blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
19:00
whose hope is in the Lord. He is like a tree planted beside the
19:03
waters that stretches out its roots into the stream. It fears not the heat
19:07
when it comes. It's leaves stay green. In the year of drought.
19:11
It shows no distress, but it still bears fruit and the psalm says,
19:17
bless her they who hope in the Lord. He is like a tree planting
19:21
near running water, that yields fruit in due season, and whose leaves never
19:26
fade. Whatever he does prospers. I mean, in my world, it's
19:30
not just symbolism. I mean, this is this is real. I mean
19:33
I see trees, you know, growing by a pond or a creek all
19:37
the time. I mean, you know, but imagine, you know,
19:41
people who lived in the desert. I mean, this is written for the
19:44
Hebrews, and you know they lived in a place where trees weren't that common,
19:48
and in a very dry environment, so it would have been even more
19:51
vivid for them. So what does this have to do with Lazarus and the
19:55
rich man? Well, also in these same passages says, more tortuous than
20:00
all else is the human heart beyond remedy. Who can understand it? I
20:06
the Lord alone probe the mind and tests the heart to reward everyone according to
20:10
his ways and to the merit of his deeds. And not so the wicked.
20:18
Not so they're like chaff which the wind drives away. For the Lord
20:22
watches over the way of the just. But the way of the wicked vanishes
20:27
again. You can hide your private sins and failings from everybody, but God,
20:36
it's going to catch up with you. Pray that it catches up with
20:41
you in this life so you have a chance to amend your life and do
20:44
a penance. I have to go us for all of us. As the
20:49
Bible said, all have sinned, all have sinned. I'm not picking on
20:53
anyone person in particular. My own life is nothing to be proud of.
21:00
In the story of Lazarus or the rich Man, you know, Lazarus was
21:04
a poor, starving, perhaps wounded or ill beggar. The rich man lived
21:10
in comfort. The rich man is not described as a particularly bad man.
21:12
Actually, he seems to have just had all he needed in terms of earthly
21:17
good and comfort. We don't know if he refused to share his excess goods,
21:22
his excess food, money, whatever, with the poor, or if
21:25
he was just so consumed by enjoying all that God had so lavishly blessed him
21:29
with and probably a lot of responsibility that came with it, I mean,
21:32
obviously and his family that he didn't even notice Lazarus. Both men were apparently
21:40
religious Jews. Let me know this because Lazarus is seen in the Bosom of
21:44
Abraham. The rich man is in purgatory. I mean backup, that is,
21:51
and that Lazarus was in the Bosom of Abraham is well known that now
21:53
that was where religious Jews were before Jesus opened the doors to happen the gates
22:00
of Heaven. No one entered Heaven until the crucifixion resurrection of Jesus Christ.
22:04
But obviously the Jews were not in Hell. They were in what they called
22:10
the Bosom of Abraham. Our Protestant friends who say there's only heaven in Hell
22:15
and no purgatory, nothing in between, have a very hard time with that
22:18
passage, because obviously there was a place that was not Hell and not Heaven.
22:23
I mean Moses and Noah and Abraham and Elijah and all them would not
22:30
have been damned to Hell. I mean they did what God asked, they
22:33
were faithful, they would have been in a place. But we know Heaven
22:37
wasn't open yet. So that shows a third place. We might call Limbo,
22:45
another potential realm. Even though the Church teachings on Limbo are very unclear
22:52
and have evolved over time. The Bosom of Abraham may have even been limbo.
22:56
Who knows right now, Many throughout time have said that Lazarus was in
23:02
Hell, and many you know Catholic writers, father Sparrago often referenced, I
23:07
mean not Lazarus, but the rich man and being in Hell. And I'm
23:14
not alone in this. I'm the only one to say this. I differ,
23:17
okay, because you know, especially there was a priest that used to
23:25
be on e wt in Maybe his name will come to me. He died
23:29
in a few years ago, most several years ago. Now. He was
23:32
actually a psychiatrist. He was really good. He had been in a car
23:36
accident and in his time and he basically died and came back to life.
23:45
He had interacted with you know, angels, and he had seen heaven and
23:48
he had seen Hell. And his teachings on how are very interesting basically and
23:56
many I mean he go Dante's Inferno. We can go back all throughout Catholic
24:00
history. Hell is not a place of purgation, okay. Hell is a
24:08
place where souls who have rejected God and love are completely turned in on himself.
24:15
Remember, like the depths of Hell are are ice, not fire.
24:21
I mean, you know, going back to Dante, they're so full of
24:25
hatred and loathing and selfishness. They don't care for anybody else there. Hell
24:32
is the absence of God, the absence of goodness, and the absence of
24:34
love. Okay, So in this it's completely cut off, Like the people
24:45
in hell cannot see Heaven. Okay, that would actually unless it, I
24:49
guess, unless it actually made them feel worse. Maybe they could envision it.
24:53
I don't know, But there's no hope for them, right, there's
24:57
no comfort because they've entirely rejected God and goodness and love. Right, So
25:07
the rich man of this story does not seem to be in that place.
25:12
He seems to be in a hot place, a place of fires. And
25:18
because he asked for water, Okay, well, Jesus said that we would
25:22
be persed as if by fire, and that's really the definition of purgatory,
25:30
the place of purgation. He can also see and talk with Abraham, and
25:34
he can see Lazarus, so he's not cut off from from God, from
25:44
from from seeing that vision of you know, where he would like to be,
25:49
and he's communicating with them, so there's no barrier that's preventing prayer.
25:56
Essentially, the souls in hell do not, right, to God because they
26:00
rejected God and goodness. They don't communicate with the saints. They are full
26:07
of hate and pity, self pity, self pity, They're completely turned inward.
26:15
Also, he has concern for his family on earth. Again, the
26:21
souls in hell have concern for knowing but themselves. So my supposition and many
26:29
other Catholic writers throughout time have said that the rich Man is not in hell
26:33
at all. He's in purgatory. He can see heaven, and he knows
26:37
his goal. He wants to be there, and he still cares for the
26:41
people on earth, and he's actually communicating with Abraham, which is, you
26:45
know, the great Jewish saint, the father of all the Jews. So
26:51
we're going to start with that as a I'll call a supposition a proposition.
26:56
You have to accept that to accept the rest of what I'm going to say.
26:59
Okay, if you say that you know the rich Man is in health,
27:00
then what I'm going to say doesn't make sense. So I know I
27:03
would have, you know, debates with other Catholic scholars, but this is
27:08
I think, logically the most sensible way to understand this story. My opinion,
27:17
my opinion only. Okay, So Lazarus is not in heaven yet because
27:27
Jesus has not come, nor was Abraham. You know, generations of souls
27:34
who love God and live righteous lives and merited the rewards of God's promises were
27:41
waiting for Christ to reconcile God and man. They were existing a state of
27:45
comfort and pleasure due to their trust and faith in the Lord and the love
27:48
of God and neighbor. The rich man, I believe was in purgatory,
27:53
and I think it's okay. I believe that be the truth. To me,
28:00
that's undeniable. Other people may disagree. But anyway, like I said,
28:07
he's not in hell. He could see Lazarus and talk with Abraham.
28:11
Hell is completely caught cut off from God in neighbor. So assuming that purgatory,
28:18
that he's in purgatory, you know he's there being purified. Jesus said
28:23
nothing impure can enter heaven, and he speaks of purification by fire. Lazarus
28:30
suffered in this life, presumably presumably coming to rely totally on God. The
28:37
rich man relied on worldly goods and ignored his religious duties to his neighbor.
28:42
Whether he intentionally neglected Lazarus or not, he was not acting in charity and
28:49
helping the poor, as was demanded by God. Purgatory in this story is
28:56
apparently having its intended effect on the rich man. He can see Abraham and
29:00
Lazarus in a place of comfort, and he desires to be with him.
29:03
See, the souls in hell do not desire to be in heaven. They
29:07
hate everything that's good. He begins to express concern for his family that's still
29:14
living. You know, if he goes on this way, he'll eventually become
29:18
the saint that purgatory will create. That's what we do. We will suffer
29:22
in purgatory to it pure, and then we will become saints. He'll be
29:26
purified from disordered passions, consumed with the love of God and mankind, and
29:33
his prayers, his prayers for not only his genetic family, but the family
29:38
of God will continue for eternity and help many, in precise contrast to his
29:45
lack of help toward the poor and suffering in his earthly life. Suddenly,
29:49
the rich man is expressing compassion and piety, but it's not complete. How
29:56
do we know this well? He's will seems to view Lazarus as lesser than
30:02
himself. If Lazarus were the servant or an underling, as if Lazarus were
30:07
a servant or an underling. He asked Abraham to send Lazarus to tend to
30:11
his needs. He hasn't yet realized that he's the one in the lower position,
30:17
and he's not given up his love of self. He doesn't beg Abraham
30:19
to allow him to come and serve. He has to be served. So
30:25
he's making progress, but he's not there yet. And Abraham replies, my
30:30
child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime, while Lazarus
30:34
receive. While Lazarus likewise receive what was bad. But now he's comforted here,
30:40
whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us, between us and you,
30:45
a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to
30:49
go from our side to yours, or from your side to ours. In
30:53
human terms, this is surprising, probably, I mean, so many today
30:57
dismiss sin is not me all be imported at all. I mean, especially
31:02
when issues such as sexual sin or politics that are opposed to Christian teachings,
31:07
like marriage and homosexuality and abortion and all that people are contraception. Even most
31:15
Catholics practice contraception, which is prohibited by church teaching. People say those our
31:22
old fashioned ideas. God understands, he's the God of love, He won't
31:26
punish people. God is not legalistic. My gosh, how many times did
31:30
I hear that when I was a Protestant. But you know, to deny
31:33
the reality of purgatory, that's really convenient. If you deny the reality of
31:40
purgatory, and like Protestants say, what saved, always saved, you can
31:44
get away with a lot. But to believe that faith is all that is
31:49
necessary does much to us. And to believe that faith is always necessary gives
31:56
a lot of people, guilty people, a conscience that doesn't bother them so
32:02
much. But it's not true. Our Lord likened purgatory to a debtor's prison,
32:07
in which one would be punished and would not get out until they had
32:10
paid every penny. And that brings us. You know, there's nothing,
32:17
as I said, nothing wrong with wealth, power and fame and all the
32:24
good things in life, but they have to be used for God's purposes.
32:32
If we suffer in life just a little bit like Lazarus, hopefully we won't
32:38
suffer like the rich man. God blesses those who love him with many good
32:44
things. So rich man was surely loved by God and greatly blessed in his
32:49
life, but only in spiritual poverty. Realizing and appreciating our reliance on God
32:53
for all our needs, just like the tree planted by the water, we
32:58
can find eternal happiness. See, y'all, life's not easy. And if
33:06
anybody tells you that Jesus ever promised it was going to be easy, they're
33:10
lying. They're lying, and you need to find another church. I hope
33:16
you'll come join us in the Catholic Church, where the teachings of Jesus have
33:21
been preserved and passed on in sacred tradition for about two thousand years. The
33:27
Catholic Church says, you're going to suffer, and we're actually grateful for that,
33:36
so that we have heaven as our reward and not temporal happiness in this
33:39
blink of an eye that is our lives. So anyway, y'all, in
33:43
the words of Saint Padre Pio, pray, hope, and don't worry.
33:45
I'll talk to you next time.