Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / A clear career progression path – Natalie Cooke

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A clear career progression path – Natalie Cooke · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Natalie Cook.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Natalie is a power planner at Iron Market.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: And today we have a fantastic chat about your career from administration into power planning.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: But more importantly, we talk about self-confidence and self-belief.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: How much of that you need to have to get ahead within the profession?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: But also how much confidence you should have in the company you're working for that they support you and your journey within your career.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: What sort of personal development plan and mentorship does your company have?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: And does that affect your confidence and how quickly you progress through the profession?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Natalie thinks so, and so do I.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: She moved from one job to another into an environment that was supportive, and lo and behold, she's happy and progressing her career.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: So today we take a deep dive into that, and I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Natalie, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: How are you?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm great.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: No problem.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for coming on.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: So, Natalie, you're a power planner at Iron Market.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: You've been working in the profession now for a few years.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely love talking to power planners.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's a profession, you know, it's an area of the profession that's growing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And we need power planners as much as we need financial planners within the profession.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I think sometimes when someone thinks about a career within financial advice or financial planning, they don't get shown the power planner route.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't get told about what a power planner is and what they do.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: So anybody coming on and shining a light about it is good for me.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: So Natalie, let's just start at the very beginning then.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just talk about how you yourself ended up getting into the financial planning profession.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was, I had my little boy and I was a single parent at the time.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically, I actually just needed a job.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And my brother-in-law was an advisor at the firm where I first started, and he said to me, Um, we basically need a receptionist at the firm where we are.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can kind of choose your hours, we're quite flexible.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was sort of jumped at the chance, yes, I need, you know, it really just needs the money at the moment.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I need a job.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that was how I kind of got into it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: How like most people, I guess, fall into the profession, don't they?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how it started.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I need a job, really, and then it kind of went from there.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I did the the reception work for a little bit, and then it was all kind of just answering phones, you know, making coffees, uh, all the kind of you know, the stuff that you start doing when you first start out, and then went into administration from there, and it it kind of went from there, really.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Fantastic.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think that's a really worthwhile point there, is that I think there's a lot of people that want to come into the profession, and a lot of people sometimes struggle to actually get in, even at grassroot level.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: But there are opportunities, even as a receptionist, and how you kind of can just fall into it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And there's plenty of people that I've spoken to that didn't struggle to get into it at all.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: They just kind of fell into it by taking up an opportunity, um, such as a supporting function, receptionist, or starting out as just um kind of low-level administration, and then having that foot in the door, and then all of a sudden it's like, whoa, this is a funny little world I'm in, financial planning.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's a bit more to it than just what I'm doing, answering a few phone calls.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you started off then as receptionist, and then you moved into administration.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Just talk to us a little bit about those administration tasks you started doing in the beginning, because lots of people wanted to come into the profession, they see the administration role, and they're not quite sure what goes on in it and what you actually have to do on a day-to-day basis.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Could you sort of tell us a little bit about what you were doing?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think it probably varies from firm to firm, to be fair, but um, I kind of started um ringing providers to see if they've got letters of authority and how long sort of timescales for information would be.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was predominantly uh pension-based where I was, so we did pension transfers.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: There was a few um investment-based stuff like ISES, but it was mainly pension transfers.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd start sort of ringing providers, um, and then it kind of came to requesting the information, so sort of typing the letters, sending a letter to authority in, um, and it it kind of built from there.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think then it was sort of putting the basic bones of a fact find on, um, you know, on Intelliflow, which is the system that we used at the time.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it just was all the kind of bare bones and stuff that you needed to initiate that process, uh, to start that process off.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the admin role started from there, and then making phone calls to clients kind of led from that, but that was probably not as regular, stage ringing providers and stuff.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's quite scary for me because I've never been in that industry.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was ringing up providers and I'd got a whole script in front of me because I was so scared I didn't know what to say.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that obviously got my confidence up as well.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was how it started, really.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Great stuff.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: So a couple of things you sort of mentioned there, these letters of authorities and phoning the providers, just give a give us a bit of an explanation.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: So if someone's listening to this right now and they're looking at the administrative role and they heard the term letters of authority, what does that mean?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's basically if you've you know a client might approach you and say, Look, I've got this um pension with Royal London, and I want I would like to review it to see if I'm getting the best out of that pension.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we would then get the client to sign a letter of authority, and all that's got on there is um all the information that we believe we would need to review that that those documents and the pension that they're invested in, and you know, the growth rates, projections.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm getting a bit technical now, so I'll start.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But all that legible authority does is allows us as the advisor to get the information of the clients and obviously their data then come to us and they allow that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, you know, you're phoning up these providers to access that information.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I I mean, providers will turn that around within 24 hours, you know, they'll they'll happily get that information to you as quickly as they can, surely.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're not uh experience, uh tells that some providers are great, and then you know, it it they usually give you a five-day working sort of working day turnaround time, and then you don't usually send everything that you ask for, so you have to call them and say, We need this, can you send it, please?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's another five working days.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I say, some in my experience, a handful of providers have been amazing and everything has come.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: But usually it's a case of actually we're missing stuff here, or they take a lot longer.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I have to keep ringing and chasing them.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the stuff?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the stuff?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's the it's a bit of a longer process than that, really.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: What's nice about that though, I think, in that early stage of the administration uh process is that A, it takes off the stress for a financial planner to be chasing all those letters of authority, uh, looking for the summaries and projections that are coming from the providers.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the purpose of that administration role, isn't it?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: To make sure all those multiple documents that the client has to sign and the providers have to send and all those typical types of things are taken care of by the administrator.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: That frees up the time, doesn't it, for the financial advisor to really do the work that they need to do and the power planner to do the work that they need to do.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the important function of an administrator.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: So without that administrator, you know, in place doing that, it would be really detrimental to a firm to be able to grow, to progress, to offer the higher level of service the clients are actually looking for.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: So an important role within financial planning.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: And often people turn their nose up at it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's a kind of entry-level route.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: But do you feel that do you feel?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, you've worked within, you know, um iron market now for some time.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: You're now a power planner, so you have progressed up through the ranks.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel that it was a really important part of your learning and of your career development starting out as that administrator?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it certainly gave me the kind of the basis of what I needed to then progress and learn for power planning.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So um the information that you're actually requesting, I didn't initially know what I was requesting at first.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just would send the letteral authority out.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: But then as time goes on, you you get this information in and you start, and I I personally start to take an interest in it, but but you get to to understand why you're why you need that information, and and you've got the advisor to hand to sort of say, well, why do we need projections?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: What are they for?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and it goes from there, and you your knowledge gets a little bit better as you go along, but also the questions that you perhaps need to ask sometimes.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, you you need to find out sort of why you're asking those questions.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all right calling for projections or you know, um what whatever else, but you need to know kind of why you need those things.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it does form that base absolutely of that progression.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And get you you sort of learn about what the financial industry is like, um, sort of from a provider perspective, so that you you want you start to learn how providers behave and how they you know, how you talk to them and the language that you use and stuff like that.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, absolutely, yeah, it's the basis for me.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: So a fantastic bit of exposure also in the early stages to, as you said, learn the language, you learn the lingo, how to communicate with providers.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: And as naturally you you start off in that field, usually in an administration role.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's when you start to then talk to people, as you talk to the providers, first of all.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you tend to see.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then gradually as your confidence um goes up and you've got that sort of level of, I suppose, technical understanding, knowledge of um of what a pension is, what you're actually asking for, then you tend to step over, don't you, into more client interaction.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: So clients are the clients that have of the financial planning firm that are getting the financial advice.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Would that be correct?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Is that what sort of happened with you?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I like I say, I I started with with doing that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I think the client, the client interaction was more kind of based around um I hope I say instruction from an advisor.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it would perhaps be a case of um just give the client a courtesy call to say, we're sending you this letteral authority out, this is what it's for.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So then you kind of explain to the client, like we've just said, about what the letteral authority does, and it allows us to get the information on their behalf.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you you kind of have those conversations and you then talk to the client about why we need that information.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So although it it might seem quite basic to the client, actually, it's it's quite valued because they're getting these documents and actually they they don't really know what they're signing, some of them.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's important to know that, and then you get that client interaction and you potentially then form a bit of a relationship with the client as well, as an administrator, not just an advisor.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really nice to do as well.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the client can always come to you if they need to.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really important, I think, for anybody listening to this that's starting out on their career journey in an administration role within a financial planning firm, is that the admin role then does progress you, although they may not might not name it within their career progression schedule or uh their career career career progression guide, but you do eventually evolve into like a client relationship manager.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they and some of the firms now name it as actually.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: You come in as an administrator, and then you progress into this client relationship manager.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think where the profession has let themselves down in the past is they don't sort of segment the different types of roles from an administrator entry level, I would say all the way up to being like a power planning manager.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there are so many progressive steps that you go through to becoming like a power planning manager, or during that career journey, the progressive steps which then lead you off, perhaps if you want to go down the financial planning route or you want to go down off the compliance route.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the firms that really do break down that career structure have a far better level of retention and far more infused staff because those staff aren't stuck in a position that perhaps isn't meeting their expectations of their career development for a start, but also isn't very goal setting because people see administration as well, where's what's my goals?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, where am I progressing?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Where am I going?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think having those clear career structure in place sets really kind of positive intentions and goals for people.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's one of the things that we're gonna have to struggle with in the profession, is that if people are gonna come in and start on this career trajectory where they start at the very beginning, they need to know where they're gonna go and they need to know the time scales of how long it's gonna take, what level of experience they're gonna have at each step of the way.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Did you find when you went into that admin role, without a mindset of like, I want to be a financial advisor or I want to be a power planner, did you sit within the admin role perhaps longer than you should have?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: My experience was um I kind of I think I lacked confidence a little bit when I was when I was in the admin role, and and I kind of needed a bit more of an advocate behind me to kind of tell me that I was certainly going to be able to achieve what I wanted to achieve.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But also in that kind of limbo of not really knowing if this was the career for me.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a stage of I was in the administration role.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: I did my level three paraplanning and administration because I was kind of hungry for something further to kind of learn more about the industry.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it kind of stopped.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I I found then that I actually wanted to do more with that qualification and actually obviously move on to do a level four potentially.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think it it you unless you've got kind of big advocates behind you, almost not pushing you, but really encouraging you to do what you feel you want to do with your career, it's hard because you get stuck in a rut and you kind of need a job, you need the money.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I did get to a point where I kind of lack confidence and I thought I I'm not, I don't think this is for me anymore.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you've got that clear pathway, like here at Iron Market, they've got a very clear pathway for everybody here, and they are huge advocates of support for what you want to do with your career.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that is that has literally made me completely decide that this is what I want to do, this is the career I want.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I came here initially, I wasn't actually sure if financial services were still for me.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a bit kind of a risky sort of decision, but it was the best decision ever.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: I like it, you know, and I think you hit the nail on the head there because it I think it's very easy to lose confidence within a profession that's so technical and you know, there's so much legislation in place, you have to be so careful with what you actually do.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and financial planning, especially in maybe some of the small to medium-sized firms, where they're trying to grow and perhaps they don't have the internal training and coaching and mentoring that some of the larger firms can invest their money into, it can be incredibly difficult.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: And for the what I've always learned over the 13 years of recruiting into that space, is that people can stay within these administration roles far too long.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: And for the very reason that you just described, that there is a certain level, a limit to the amount of confidence and self-propulsion that we have.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: We also need to be guided and coached and developed.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's those firms that are guiding and coaching and developing.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it goes back to that career progression plan we just talked about then, that really outshine everybody else because everybody knows where they are there.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody knows what their level of expectation is.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you could have all the confidence and the bounding confidence of a puppy, but if you don't know where you're going, or if someone's not put a pathway in front of you or checks in with you or talks about your progression, you're going to burn out sooner or later.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then we can kind of, you said it's lack of confidence.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Perhaps it was just lack of direction or guidance, you know?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And those are the things I think I always say to people if you're stuck in those administration roles, if you're in that position, have a conversation with your manager.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Understand well, where am I going?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: What's my objective?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: I need some help, I need some guidance.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for a long, long time I spoke to so many good quality people.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: And get this mainly women who sit within administration roles way too long because they're just not progressed.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: They're not sort of shown that there is a path to becoming a financial planner.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: And lo and behold, we have a distinct rack of females within the profession that are actually in any kind of leadership position or any kind of financial planning position.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I put an article out, and I mean there's a big discussion about it.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, well, you need to look from within.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's plenty of women in administration roles that are well capable of becoming financial planners.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Invest in them, train them and develop them and get them up there.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can do things like outsourcing the training now, outsourcing the development.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: You can bring people on on an apprenticeship.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to call it an apprenticeship.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: All the training and development's taken care of and the study leave, et cetera.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: There's even grants for it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of no excuse.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think homegrown talent is where it is.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really, really good to hear iron market then, investing in that because you started out as an investment administrator by PSP wealth management for a fair few years.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: I can see that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Then you've progressed into iron market.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: So tell us a little bit about why you like iron market so much.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: What are they doing at the moment that's really making you feel confident that you're in the right place?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I think uh going back to kind of like the skippy side of things, everybody that works here currently is on it is on a qualification path.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever that may be, that iron market is 100% support the staff, whatever they want to do.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we've got um we don't actually call them administrators here, we call them client associates because they have quite a lot of client contact as well.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so so I think when I first came here, because there was quite an emphasis on, you know, if you want to progress your career and do qualifications, we will support you.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: That was one of the first things that kind of stood out for me.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I came for the interview, and that was the conversation I had was I am looking to do more with my qualifications because I'm stuck in a bit of a rut.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, obviously I need the support, I need the backing from a company, and it was 100% there.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that massively appealed to me.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I came into Iron Market kind of as the only paraplanic at the time, so it gave me a lot of um kind of space to put my ideas forward, and and I was actually being listened to, and it was lovely because they were so open to these ideas, and and everybody had ideas, and and the thing with them is they are so open to new ideas, and they listen to you and they take it on board and they feed back to you, and it was just the communication was there, like that's what I needed was the communication from from the director, not just from the manager, but from the director, you know, that kind of support, that level is just second to none to me.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And because my confidence levels were particularly low at the time, or at least, like say maybe my my brain was just needed more.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of didn't know what to expect, but then what I did sort of gain was amazing from the from just from day one, really, of being here.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Being a bit more free to kind of do what I wanted to do with say the suitability reports and see what everybody thought of that rather than kind of being dictated to and criticized.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if if I got feedback that may be considered negative, it was always constructively given to me, and always there was always a reason why it needed to be a certain way, if that makes sense.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it it was just a totally different experience.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's the team are quite young, you know.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Where's who's the director, his he's quite young as well.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think also knowing his vision for the for the future of Iron Market helped me to think, well, can I fit into this?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to mould into this kind of, you know, and and it just worked.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: It just worked from day one.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think having a vision and having a plan and having somebody within the business who's in a leadership position who actually leads is so powerful.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I've gone through this myself with my own recruitment company.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: I can have all the ideas in my head and I'll know where I'm going.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: But if I don't articulate that down to or across to the staff who work for me, why would they get excited about the future of my business?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Why would they get excited about wanting to progress within it?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's so, so important that we articulate it as leaders and that we we bring everybody into the process.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: And feedback is so imperative as well.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you just said there a second ago that you felt like you were in a position when you joined Iron Market where you were listened to.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like is that such a big I mean, listened, being listened to.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're the one doing the job on a daily basis of administration.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: You're the one that's supporting those functions.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Anybody else who's feeding into it is just seeing it from a completely different perspective and usually from quite a selfish perspective that they want something done quickly.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: And there's always a process, isn't there?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: There's always there's always a level of process and detail that needs to go into it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: And more often than not, you see it before they anybody else within the business sees it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: And therefore, your feedback and your in influence and your inclusion in any discussion around process improvement isn't it's so important.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think some of the best processes that we've created isn't from what I want, uh, but from what people in my business want to make their lives easier.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: And when it's as soon as I shut it up my head thinking what I think everybody else wants and started listening to what they want, it made total sense.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: We had a meeting last week actually with the team.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And again, we're we're kind of growing, iron market is growing.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've got massive growth plans in place.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: We've got new offices being built currently.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we're expanding the team or all aspects of the team.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: But they were also talking about this kind of this vision that they've got for the next step for iron marketing.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody was included.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Customer service, what we think we offer, could we do more?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just the inclusion does make you feel excited.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you're not left out of anything and you're so in the loop that you do, you feel that excitement, you're so ready for you know for it to expand and grow.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really good.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because also, as well, not everybody wants to be a business owner, not everybody wants to run their own business.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: They just want to feel part of something and have influence upon something and be an integral part of the growth of that business.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And um I I totally agree.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Bringing people into it, having those discussions, asking what people want from the business, how they view the business is incredibly important.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, that's great to hear that you found that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting how your confidence has then gone up, right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't sit and say there's never been any bumps in the road because that wouldn't be sort of realistic at all.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not based on life.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But any bumps that have been in the road have been very quickly smoothed out by the support of the team and the directors.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like just it's sort of something again that I've perhaps never experienced is being able to sit with a team of people and actually have them explain.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sort of when you as a human, emotions can sometimes get in the way, and maybe you're thinking a little bit irrationally.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of so nice to just have an all and sort of be brought back to normality by a team of people that will just sort of put it into perspective for you.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: If because I'm quite hard on myself, I can be self-doubt can be quite high sometimes, even now.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I get to that point now, actually, I've found a lot of just a lot of the time having a conversation with my manager will just sort that out.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't get that everywhere.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of people that will take the time to do that for you.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another kind of aspect of it as well.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: And again, just an area where businesses do need to invest more on the well-being of their staff to understand what people are going through on a daily basis.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you're not alone there, you know.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh people who run their businesses have a lot of self-doubt.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it doesn't matter what position people are in within that company, everybody suffers from self-doubt.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we do.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: We always doubt ourselves and are we as good as we think we are, and that fear of what other people think, that imposter syndrome creeps in, you know, is this really what I should be doing?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And and we all feel that way.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um, as a business, we we invest quite heavily in in our mental health and mental well-being program to ensure that people feel confident to be able to ask for an evaluation.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because if if I feel a bit anxious about something or I'm not feeling great about the direction of the business, and I'm thinking, what's going on over there?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: I ask for advice.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'll go to somebody with I know I can turn to my managers that are in here, I know I can turn to my business partner, and I can just express what it is that I'm feeling without judgment.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's what you want to have, isn't it?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm I'm not feeling great, I'm a bit worried about that, but I don't want to make a deal out of it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to ask your opinion and look for an evaluation of my thoughts and then bring it all out.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: And usually when you do that, you feel so much better.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: You think, oh, actually, okay, it's not it's not that bad, or it's not the doubt that I've got isn't actually so bad that I I shouldn't, I feel like I shouldn't be having that doubt.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a stickler for kind of trying to do things on my own first and working it out by myself before asking for help.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes it's just easier to ask for help.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could be working on something for 25 minutes, and I'll just tune in to my colleague and ask a question and she'll say, feel off the answer.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just say, I don't know why I didn't ask you 25 minutes ago.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want to be seen as being unknowledgeable and non-knowing.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's about letting letting go of the ego and the pride and just sort of saying, like, because you're absolutely spot on.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: There's a really good thing that came up, Catherine Morgan on uh her podcast in her financial shoes.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Very, very good if you've not heard it.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: She's a financial advisor.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, focuses on well-being.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: And she says, like, if something's coming up, don't ask how I am going to do this, ask who can help me.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I loved that because I'm I'm in exactly the same place as you.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: I've I'll try, I'll go, I'll try and reinvent the wheel for a month.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: All I need to do is pick up the telephone and ask an expert.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: Why am I spending all my time trying to work out Instagram ads when you know Dave round the corner does it for a living?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's really good to hear.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm I'm always pleased to hear that firms are investing in that way.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you're absolutely spot on because it's had a direct effect on your career progression.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's had a direct effect on your well-being within the workplace.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: You feel um part of the business, you have some sense of worth and why and reasons why you're doing the job that you actually do.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really, really um good to hear.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: So that administration role, we've sort of touched on the fact that if anybody's listening here, you can all of a sudden sit in that for far too long.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that's when you can stagnate and you might get a bit resentful, you might, you know, oh, you know.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: So perhaps some of the advice you might give people is speak to your manager.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, take a little look around.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: What other what what's what's the bigger picture of financial planning?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is this what it's like?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: Am I talking to other administrators?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: Can I connect with someone on LinkedIn?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: Perhaps can I join some um some groups where other administrators are in those groups?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: I know there's like the PowerPlanner Club and all that kind of stuff.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Great ways, just evaluate, see, am I in the right place, am I doing the right thing, or do I need to move on?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: Are my staff, are my employers really investing in me and my future?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can hold a lot of things back because you don't feel like you can say things to say your manager.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't mean sort of anything out of turn, I just mean that you, you know, you might want to approach them and say, I'm I'm a little bit, you know, I'm stagnant in this role, I'm a bit bored, I can't, is there anything I can do?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you're only going to get one answer, aren't you?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to get a yes or a no.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then you kind of know from that point, well, actually, what do I do from here?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: If it's a no, we're not gonna, we're not gonna support that, then you know, you sort of start looking elsewhere.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: If they're going to, then that's brilliant.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think absolutely conversations with with your manager, even if it makes you a bit nervous, you know, just just kind of go for it.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: It can only go one way or the other, can't it?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I would definitely advise that because I think I sat for a good few years, not kind of daring to say anything, and I wish I had.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great bit of advice.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: And as you mentioned earlier, the fact that you absolutely love constructive feedback and and and and anything like that, it goes the other way as well.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: Most people like to hear some constructive feedback.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I always say to people, look, if you're unhappy, make a list of the things you're unhappy about.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: What can you do to resolve those problems?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do they lie within you?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and then look at the other areas, then sit down, but don't go in there with a loaded weapon.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a really good advice.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, don't go in there with a loaded weapon, go in there in in like a constructive way, because you know, otherwise you can put yourself into a position of getting angry, yeah, resentful, stressful.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've thought about it for a long time as well.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I sort of did it, I would speak to like, you know, my parents or my husband and say, Well, what do you think I should do?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and they would 100% back go and speak to your manager, but then like you like you say, it sort of makes sure that you kind of have got the written down or at least in your head the right things that you want to say and be constructive about the way that you do it.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, it goes both ways.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so yeah, I can kind of go in all guns blazing, sort of thing.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: So brilliant then.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: So at Iron Market, then you're now as a you're now a power planner.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: You've got your down as power planner on your on your LinkedIn profile.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: So you've you have you have gradually progressed up through the ranks then from administration into a power planning role.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: And and and how are you finding that power planning role?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I absolutely love this.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it's such a keynote.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think to go from not really knowing where I want to go to then actually thinking, right, I I want to establish this career as a power planner.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me it was massive because I I had got that sort of low confidence level.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it still creeps in now and again, it's still cuts, you know, and then I kind of have to have a word with myself and it's you know, but I um again just because of the support that I've got here at Iron Market as well.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm still studying, I'm I'm currently on my R03, and then I'm going to do my J09 this year as well.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll do my level four power planner qualification, but hopefully carry on and do the level four financial advisor.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the just the the whole support level.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like when you touched upon earlier about saying about um you you feel like you don't want to ask questions because you think you feel like people should know, like they should think that you know everything about what you're doing.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really important because as a team here, we always share knowledge.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: So there'll be something that I think I should know.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I don't feel bad saying I'm not actually sure about that one.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it I don't know, it's just it it's I love the role in itself, I love the the behind the scenes stuff, but I have started to talk to clients on the phone a little bit more.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think initially it was very much I want to be a power planner, that's it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And now I was kind of like, maybe I could go into actually guys, but I do certainly enjoy that power planning role like 100%.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if I could do like a hybrid role, that'd be that'd be great.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they're out, you know, that that's what most firms do now.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's what your firm will inevitably, if they're not doing it anyway, it it will inevitably go that way because A, it's a great way to progress your career and get exposure on both sides, but also it's a great use of the power planner's time because I suppose you've got some people that are quite introvert and perhaps don't particularly want to be talking to clients, and maybe because they don't feel confident enough to, right?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: They just feel like they don't have the knowledge or they don't feel comfortable enough.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: And some people just aren't interested in speaking to people.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: They'd rather do the research, do the numbers and get into the nitty-gritty in there and then articulate that to the advisor, don't they?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then the advisor goes and does that part.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that skill set again.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: We've got to kind of we've got to evaluate our sometimes and look at the pot, you know.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Am I am I naturally more suited to the researchy type, which you could call the geeky one, the geeky role?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is it more am I suited to that?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that makes me feel more comfortable, or is it I want to talk to clients and I love the idea of going out and winning that business?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think what financial planning people forget is that it is a business development role, and there is a huge amount of extrovert type approach to get up and go to finding clients.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a it's an outward, it's an outbound type type role.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas power planning can often be quite inbound.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're dealing with the relationship after or a bit before it, but there is something has been created and you're coming in to fill that gap.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what you said there, and probably why you're enjoying it so much, is because of the comfort zone it provides you and the fact that the client the client has already had something wrapped around them and you're almost being wheeled out as an expert.
• 33:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's quite nice, isn't it?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think in that power planning role, that's a lovely way for somebody that wants to have that client interaction and remain power planning.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: But again, how the hell do you know whether or not financial advice isn't for you until you actually start to uh step outside your box, step outside your comfort zone and talk to those clients?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, nobody's life's written imperfectly, is it?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, two years' time, you might be might be a financial planner.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I've come across plenty of people like that that have just said, you know, now's the time for me to do it.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: I had somebody on the podcast quite recently, and she was um always a career in um in um uh power planning and administration and compliance, and then hooked up with another friend of hers who was a compliance manager, and they've just set up a financial planning firm.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then they're hiring financial planners, and neither of them are financial advisors.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I and it's interesting because there's, and and people need to understand this as well when they come into the financial planning profession, is that you can progress down an administration route all the way up to power planning management.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: You could run your own power planning company, you could be an outsourced power planning company, you could be an you could be on the board of directors, in the investment committee, hugely influential positions.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're a natural on entrepreneur, you can progress and run your own business and be an outsourced outsourced company on the supporting power planning side.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, you can have that there.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: There is some glitz and there is some glamour and there is some risk and stuff, as well as on the financial planning side, isn't it?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: Have you got a long-term goal?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: Do you set goals?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like as I've touched on earlier, with the with iron market, you do offer kind of a pathway.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: So so um they really help kind of in that with the uh they give you the tools for your career move, basically, for moving that forward.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so initially I started I'm gonna be a paraplanner, that's it.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, and then once I've done that level four paraplanning qualification, I'm not gonna do any more.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, that's when it started a couple of years ago.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but now it's kind of moved to well, I think I'll probably do my level four diploma.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll get just even if I don't use that as a financial advisor, client-facing role, I've still got that knowledge behind me.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've got I've got those qualifications there.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: But but for me, kind of if you want to say maybe a three to five year plan would be um get qualified and then move into a more senior role here at Iron Market, so potentially a sort of power planning manager, a power planning team leader, um, because we are looking to grow that team of power planners as well.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully I will be leading that.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'd like to be, yeah, in three to five years.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then who knows?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: So when you were sitting there lacking confidence as an administrator, I bet you never thought you you'd be going working towards those goals, would you?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not, never.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Never again.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: Things always change, and it's the experience that we have, but it's about you know, stepping outside of this comfort zone, leaning into any kind of uncomfortable feeling.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the one thing I can definitely take from talking to you today is that having those open discussions and expressing how you actually feel, you wish you'd done it sooner because that's the biggest regret for you.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: But that's okay because today you're sharing your story and you're sharing and hopefully inspiring anybody else, and they might just go away from this podcast and make that contact with the manager and it changes their career.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the beautiful thing about it.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: And stepping into that role of power planner manager allows you then to draw back on your personal experiences and know how important those things actually are in an individual's development.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: And therefore, I'd say you're probably perfect for the market.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: So if you listen in Iron Market, get her employed, get get her get her promoted.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's a distinct lack of females within the financial planning profession.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: You're a female.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh what you know, we're not gonna go into the why you think it is or anything like that, because I think as you know, multiple theories, male-dominated, quite a, you know, male-dominated older profession, financial services, bit boys club, you know, you hear all these types of things.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: But let's just talk about what you think would be something that firms can do to attract more females into their financial planning firms at any kind of level.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's important to um, you know, if you were a if you're kind of a firm that's looking for more for more staff or more advisors, I think the initial kind of advert for that job should should be sort of, I'm not saying that adverts are directed at males, so to speak, but I think there needs to be something in there about your your culture and your ethos as a team and as a as a place to work of again pushing the the qualifications.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm not saying sort of directly say, oh, it's great for females too, but in some way, shape or form, kind of put that out there as you know, it we're up to date with.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, sort of promoting financial advice as predominantly male is so old fashioned now, and it's still still the stigma's still there.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's very much like sort of to me, it it reads as, oh well, well, males are more intelligent than women and they can can deal with people better.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so, so outdated.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that there just needs to be something somewhere within your kind of ethos as a team that it doesn't matter.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like anybody can do this, males, females, anybody can do this this job.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but yeah, it's it's quite a tricky, they're trying quite a tricky one, really, without sort of directly saying that females can do this too.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but yeah, I think that needs to be part of your your culture and your team.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think doing, I think more women in positions of influence within the financial planning profession need to step up and promote the profession.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because lots of young girls, you know, women, women in general, doesn't matter if they're young or what, because the profession doesn't lend itself to just younger people now.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: We need people of all different ages to come into the profession.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I think women who are in positions of influence need to stand up and talk.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I I love seeing the more, and the thing is, there's so many female financial planners that I know that are bringing their own podcasts out, and they are uh using Instagram far more than males do, you know.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think anybody that's in, especially in a leadership position, I think they need to step up and talk about their career progression, how they got into that leadership position.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because things like one in 26 are female in leadership positions or something stupid like that.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's really, it's really low.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think the more we see more women, and the same as we we see more people from different ethnic backgrounds as well, that's really important because there's a distinct lack of black people within financial planning, for instance, you know?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the more it's promoted by the people that are in the profession, the more attraction will come and the more diversity that we will see.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I remember I did a podcast episode around um LGBTQ, and there was nothing, you know, I did a bit of research and there was no firms that were kind of promoting LGBTQ.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I saw I brought a couple of, I brought a guy on called Taylor Beavis, who's a uh gay guy, and he he said, I said, is there a need for different financial advice for anybody from you know the LGBTQ plus community?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um and he said, yeah, you know, and he started reading off all these reasons why, you know, they have very different, different sort of lifestyle requirements and goals, you know, far more disposable income, very much less likely to have families and stuff like that.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I found that really super interesting.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's about promotion, isn't it?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's about getting people like yourself talking today about what it is you've done, the journey that you've been on, because I know that inspires people.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, listen, thank you so much for your time today.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a real pleasure talking to you and learning about your career progression.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it's certainly inspiring.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the main thing, the takeaway today is when you're with a firm that really does value you, has a good, strong career progression in place, and that you have the confidence to articulate to them how you're feeling, you make your own luck, right?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in your hands, it's all up to you, really, isn't it?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, exactly.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Brilliant.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much, Natalie, for your time today.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Really, really appreciate it, and um, and good luck with your career.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for having me.