Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 40, Season 2: Choosing Safe Support in a Saturated Coaching Market

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Episode 40, Season 2: Choosing Safe Support in a Saturated Coaching Market · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Doc podcast. I am your co
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: host Rena Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hinsley,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: the owner, founder and CEO of the love Doc relationship
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: coaching services. You can find her at the lovedoc dot
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: com or on any social media handle at doctor Sarah Hinsley.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hello, Hey, how are you?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I am very very well. How are you?
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I'm good, a little.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Discombobulated, combobulated.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: You know, we went to on vacation.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: We didn't go on vacation together.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: It was much needed.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, yes, much needed. And I got so
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: much clarity just connecting with nature and in a beautiful
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: place and just a lot of clarity, a lot of
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: direction from the Lord, which is always a really beautiful
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: thing because sometimes when life is so noisy, you can't
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: always hear the voice of God really clearly.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: You can hear the voice of God an island time, baby,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: which we were in island time. We were in the
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Virgin British Islands. And if you if anybody's never been,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a sight to behold. It's absolutely beautiful.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: And I just feel so grateful to have had an
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: opportunity to go to such a beautiful place like that. Absolutely,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and I think it was after last year. It was
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: just really really needed for us. We were just, you know,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: juggling lots of things and we needed a little bit.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: We were big balls of stress. We were for speaking
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: of stress, that's a good segue into what this episode
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: is about, yeah, which is essentially choosing safe support in
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: a world full of coaches.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: The coaching space has blown up exponentially even in the
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: last two years, and if I were a consumer, I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: wouldn't know what to do. I would be like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: my gosh, would I choose? It gets overwhelming, It's very overwhelming,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: and so you know, I want to approach this topic
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: with sensitivity and definitely with humility and say that I
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: can't handle everybody out there that's an emotional pain. There
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: are a lot of great people out there. There's plenty
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: of room for multiple people to take up space in
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: this arena. But I think it would be ignorant not
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  Speaker 2: to mention that there are some very unqualified people out there. Absolutely,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: because they've looked at coaching and they're like, Oh, you
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  Speaker 2: don't have to have a license, you don't have to
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  Speaker 2: have education. Get me in on that. And then they're
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: learning from YouTube and they're learning from maybe people like you, books,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: people like you, And then I can see that reflected
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: back in just a very basic understanding of attachment. And
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: then sometimes when I try not to look at my competitors,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I don't like to look at my competitors. You do,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: but I'm not gonna lie. Sometimes that like suggests that, right,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: So their postal pop up on my professional feed because
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  Speaker 2: they're like, well, you're interested in relationships, right, So like
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: on Facebook, and so I'll you know, get other coaches
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  Speaker 2: that pop up, and I'll just kind of go to
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  Speaker 2: the comments and some things I've noticed and some people
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  Speaker 2: it's like when really pressed for nuance or complexity, they
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: can't deliver because they don't know it right. And so,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: and I personally think that that can can step into
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: some unethical territory because we are not talking about like
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: somebody coming and fixing your toilet.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, it does matter pretty qualify. This is
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  Speaker 1: like flying a plane sort of like you don't want
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  Speaker 1: just somebody.
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  Speaker 2: Right, This is not this is not just somebody that
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  Speaker 2: like you get a YELP recommendation for. And again I'm
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: not putting down plumbers, Oh, my gosh, plumbers, you know
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  Speaker 2: we need them, right, But we're talking about people's nervous systems,
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  Speaker 2: people's relationships, people's trauma, people's trauma, and the nervous system
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: directs every system, and the nervous system directs your behavior
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: and your relationship and your relationship, especially if you're married
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: and you have children. It's one of the most sacred
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: things in your life. And so we don't just handle
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  Speaker 2: that with pop psychology and catchy phrases and do this
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  Speaker 2: and not that. It has to be handled with depth
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  Speaker 2: and with an understanding of nuance and an understanding of complexity.
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  Speaker 2: And it's so important to have someone knowledgeable. And yes,
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  Speaker 2: training and credentials do kind of reflect that. It reflects, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: you've been through a master's level or you've been through
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  Speaker 2: doctoral level training, you've been exposed. Yeah, and the degree
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  Speaker 2: there matters because it's proof that you've been exposed to
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  Speaker 2: this information and that you actually had to prove competence
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  Speaker 2: in this information in order to get that diploma. But
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  Speaker 2: that's not to say that there aren't great coaches that
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  Speaker 2: don't have doctoral degrees. There are, but I think depth matters.
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  Speaker 2: I think training matters, and I think when you're talking
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  Speaker 2: about attachment theory and trauma and the nervous system and
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  Speaker 2: all of those really important things, this just isn't light material.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: It's just not light material. You can't just breeze past
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  Speaker 2: some of these really important points. And I just want
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  Speaker 2: to give an example from my personal life, very open
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  Speaker 2: about talking about my own attachment crisis that happened in
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  Speaker 2: twenty twenty that really catapulted my whole healing journey. And again,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: as a social psychologist, our knowledge base is how to
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  Speaker 2: conduct research in human behavior, and then you get trained
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  Speaker 2: in your specific little niche within social psychology and in
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  Speaker 2: doctoral level training, a lot of what we are taught
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: is to question assumptions, to challenge what we think we
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  Speaker 2: know based on data, and what that data is really
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  Speaker 2: telling us and what we can actually conclude from that data.
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  Speaker 2: And then we're taught, you know, rigorous methodological approaches in depth,
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  Speaker 2: statistical analysis, assessment creation. There's a lot of science there,
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  Speaker 2: and it's really the science of what is it and
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  Speaker 2: what can happen, And then when you move over to
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  Speaker 2: the clinical side, it's a little bit of the how
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  Speaker 2: to fix it side? Right, So I didn't have as
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  Speaker 2: much knowledge in that how to fix it, and that
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  Speaker 2: was very very evident by my own behavior where I
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  Speaker 2: knew what my patterns were, had all that awareness.
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  Speaker 1: But you were a professor of clinical psychology.
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  Speaker 2: Right, well, I ran a clinical program, so in terms
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: of I never taught any clinical courses, gotcha. So I
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: was like an administrator in an admineral. But my teaching,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm still a professor. I taught social psychology,
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  Speaker 2: I taught research methods, I taught psychometrics, I taught statistics,
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  Speaker 2: I taught developmental psychology, and so all of those things,
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  Speaker 2: you know, really important in the area of attachment. And
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: then I supervised a lot of dissertations, so I would
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: help especially students that were doing their dissertation anywhere in
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: the field of relationships.
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  Speaker 1: You know.
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  Speaker 2: I was always sort of put as the head of
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: that committee, that dissertation committee. We try to match students
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  Speaker 2: with faculty expertise in that area. So I had a
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  Speaker 2: lot of experience translating very complex things in a way
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  Speaker 2: that hopefully people can understand. I mean, that's what you
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  Speaker 2: do as a professor or teacher, and certainly as a
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: dissertation supervisor. But it teaches you how to really understand
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: what is the science telling you. And I know I've
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: kind of been through this, but we have a lot
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: of listeners that just kind of jump in. They're not
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: going to go back and listen to past episodes. And
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: so when you look at science, we have a lot
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: of different criteria that we have to look at. We
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: have to look at replication. That's huge, and we do
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  Speaker 2: have a replication problem in science because a lot of
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  Speaker 2: replications don't get funded. They want new they want novel
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: and it's the government funding all of this, right, so
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  Speaker 2: it's hard to get funding for replication. Meaning that we
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: conducted this study, there was a finding that happened, we
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: want to see if we can replicate it. We want
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: to conduct the same study again and see if we
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  Speaker 2: get the same finding with a new sample of participants.
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  Speaker 2: That's good science. We also look at methodology and the
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: limitations to methodology, So we look at, okay, how rigorous
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: was this methodology. You know, you hear people say, well,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: correlation doesn't mean causation, but a lot of people don't
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  Speaker 2: scientifically know what that means.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna have to break that down. Me.
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  Speaker 2: Even cause and effect has to be measured in a
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  Speaker 2: very precise way, and there are certain conditions that have
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  Speaker 2: to be met before you can claim that one variable
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  Speaker 2: causes another. So X causes Y. We can't just look
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  Speaker 2: at something and say, okay, diet coke is correlated to
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  Speaker 2: high cholesterol. Do you know that it is correlated to
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  Speaker 2: high cholesterol? But is it because people drink diet coke
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  Speaker 2: and the diet coke is actually inside of your body
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  Speaker 2: causing high cholesterol. No, There's a third variable, which we
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: call the Z variable, which is people that drink diet
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  Speaker 2: coke are more likely to eat fast food and have
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: poor lifestyle and make poor lifestyle choices. Okay, And I'm
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: addicted to diet coke as I say this, okay, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm working on it. So it's actually like the fast
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  Speaker 2: food and the fatty food that is the mechanism causing
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: the high cholesterol. And so if I wanted to measure
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  Speaker 2: if diet coke caused high cholesterol, the only way that
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  Speaker 2: I can do that. There's only one methodology that can
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  Speaker 2: measure cause and effect, just one, and it is called
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: a randomized controlled experiment, which means you have something called
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: random assignment. So you take individuals and you have to
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  Speaker 2: randomly assign them to conditions.
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  Speaker 1: I remember learning a lot about it, just like in
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  Speaker 1: my cast stone in advanced.
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  Speaker 2: Right in college. So it's like chance predicts who goes
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  Speaker 2: into what group, the test group or the placebo group,
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  Speaker 2: and then the controlled part of that name is the
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  Speaker 2: control group or what we call a placebo group, right,
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  Speaker 2: that gets no intervention. So we isolate the effect of
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: what we call the independent variable, which is diet coke.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: That's what we're manipulating, So it's the independent variable, and
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: then the depennant variable is the outcome variable, which is cholesterol.
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  Speaker 2: So we would randomly assign people to drink like diet
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  Speaker 2: like two diet cokes a day for six weeks, and
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: then the other group they can only drink water. That
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: would be a plasibo true plasybo. And then at the
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: end of six weeks we measure cholesterol, and people will
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: be like, well, don't you have to measure it beforehand?
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, that's a little bit of an extra
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: safety test to have, like a pretest. But randomization essentially
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: assures that people would say high cholesterol naturally are going
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: to be equally dispersed in both groups. That theoretically, Okay,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: that's how random assignment should work. So when you approach
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: looking at research to draw conclusions, you have to understand
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: methodology and limitations. Otherwise you can draw wrong conclusions. If
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I looked at a study that just said, hey, how
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: many diet cokes do you drink and what's your cholesterol,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: and then we ran a correlation, and then I go
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: and say, well, don't drink diet coke because it causes
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: high cholesterol. You're gonna have a heart attack, I would
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: be drawing wrong conclusions. And so when I went to
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: heal myself, Okay, I'm not gonna lie. God had a
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: latch part in it. He gave me hope, He gave
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: me stabilization, he gave me optimism, he gave me confidence.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: The word the word very powerful, very powerful.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: And I was bound and determined to go and look
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: at the credibility of different approaches to healing attachment. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: you have to be able to have discernment in looking
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: at the research to know if it's good research or
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: bad research, to know if it's methodologically sound, to know
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: if it has error or bias. There's a lot of
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: different types of biases in different research designs that all
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: came from my training. It came from my doctoral training.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And so I'm not saying that somebody can't be a
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: good coach without that. But what I am saying is
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  Speaker 2: that it's important that you choose somebody that has knowledge
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: of what is real science versus sort of pop science,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: what is efficacious versus something that has maybe a little
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: bit of evidence behind it that's not going to be
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: as efficacious but has gotten a lot of attention. I
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: think in a world where social media rewards confidence over competence,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: we have to be careful. Amen, So because somebody can
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: show up and be really confident but not know very much,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: and I think that that's dangerous when you're choosing a
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: provider to work with. And let me just go back
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: to my own personal story, So have my own attachment crisis,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: and I really got off track on that story.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: No, no, but I think that's important. That piece is
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: really important because it is what sets you apart, is
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: your training and what you had to go through, the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: rigorous training that you had.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: To go through.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, I remember how hard undergrad was. I
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: couldn't imagine master level, you know, doctor at level psychology
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: because my undergrad was challenging.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was no walk in the park. Yeah really
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: those years.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I mean I can be more candidate. I think I
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: can be more candid and just say like, there's because
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I do watch a lot of your competitors. And again,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I don't want to put anybody down. Everybody has their
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: own way of doing things. But knowing what I know
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: from you and what I've learned from you, the majority
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: of it is just from your competitors, is just fairly
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: generic advice where you really dig into the science, you
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: really dig into the how to past, just the awareness
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: because and I can't say this with certainty, of course,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: but I mean, let's be honest. You can go to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: your you can go to your sister or your best
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: friend and get generic advice.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: You know, I always tell people if you could have
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: youtubed your way out of this problem, you would have
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: done it by now, right, And that's not saying I
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: post on YouTube. So I'm not saying that we're not
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: trying to get good information out there. But what I'm
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: saying is this takes a deeper level of complexity and
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: understanding of nuance, attunement, and attune meant to get people
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: where they need to be. And so in my own
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: personal experience right after Jared died, you know, extremely traumatized.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I had very severe symptoms of central sensitization. Not one
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: provider said, yes, you have central sensitization. I had to
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: figure that out on my own. But I immediately went
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: to a somatic healing practitioner who I didn't vet in
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: terms of credentials. I just looked at a fancy website.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: He seemed very knowledge bowl, and I was like, I know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I need to do this somatic healing work because my
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: body is literally collapsing here. I was having very severe
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: temperature regulation issues and I was having very severe you know,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: skin reactions and food intolerances, which are all we're all
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: trauma based.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: All social and sound sensitivity.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Well that hadn't come in yet. Oh okay, And we
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: did tre you know kind of trauma release where you
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: know it's shaking. It's like certain you put your body
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: in certain positions and then your body shakes and releases trauma.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And after about the third session, like I was in
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: the position you know a lot of it's like laying
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: on the floor and your legs are in like a
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: butterfly position, and I was shaking so uncontrollably, and I
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: remember him being like, this is great, This is good.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: You're releasing so much of this trauma. You're going to
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: feel so much better. Not like a week later did
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: the vestibular migraine hit. What you want to talk about disabling,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: And what I really think happened was that I overloaded
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: my nervous system. Like my body was like, oh, wait,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: you want me to feel ten years of abuse, the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: last year and a half of a custody battle, your
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: mom's cancer diagnosis, and the death of the father of
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: your kids right here, right now. You want to feel
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: all the weight of that. And it just in my
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: nervous system coloaded. Yeah, completely collapsed. And so this is
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: the danger when I see and I would never call
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: anybody out by name, but there's a particular coach. I
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: went to his website. I was like, what's this dude's credentials,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: just just out of total curiosity because he talks so
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: much about somatic work, and that just honestly makes my
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: butt pucker. Yeah it does. It makes my butt pucker because, like,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I had that experience of being profoundly disabled from what
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I believe, and I don't think that it was the
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: whole contributor, but I think it was a lot, yeah,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: of just somebody not being knowledgeable about window of tolerance
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and titration and then just full fledged going at it right,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: just release, release it all right. And I looked and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I don't even think this guy has a bachelor's degree.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: He doesn't explain. There's nothing on the website about where
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: he got his training, how he got his training, how
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: why he's qualified to be able to teach you how
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: to quote rewire your nervous system and to do somatic work.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: And that makes my butt bucker.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, gosh, would you go to this like.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Because of my personal experience knowing how like what can happen,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: how delicately you have to approach nervous system work.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like if you had a broken leg.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: You know, you're not gonna just go to Joshmo down
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the street to you know, set my mind back, put
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: your pins in it, but ext broken leg, you know.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: I mean I think that that we are creating more
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: awareness around like the nervous system should be treated in
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: the same respect.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And I think it's just so crucial
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: that when you decide to work with someone that you
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: do your own vetting. I'm not going to get on
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: here and be like, you have to come to me,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: all right, of course, there's plenty of room. There's so
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: many broken, hard people out there. I couldn't even handle
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: them all. There's no way, right And two years ago
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I was one of the only voices in this space.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And then it started trending and it exploded. It exploded.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Everybody and their brother is talking about attachment right now
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: because they saw it that people were interested in it. Yeah,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: it's very solid psychological science.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, it makes the light bulbs go off.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: It makes the light bulbs go off, and it makes
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: like your whole romantic history makes sense. And then you're like,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, how did I not know this? I
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: totally get that. But you can't just run to someone
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: that sounds confident and that has good catchphrases. So when
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: you're vetting somebody, I would ask a particular, you know,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: set of questions. I would ask, how do you approach
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: nervous system work? What's your methodology, what are your credentials?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: What are your credentials? And again, credentials aren't everything, but
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: they are some proof, the proof of exposure.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I ain't going and nobody that doesn't have doctor in
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: front of their name for my broken leg.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I mean it is what it is, yeah, and so there,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I mean that is one thing. Doctoral level training gives
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: you the ability to continue to seek more knowledge and
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: to know where to look good, where to look, and
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: what to look for. So it gives you the ability
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: to be this real, beautiful, lifelong learner because you can separate,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: like the crap findings from the robust findings. So that's
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: why when I went to the science and I'm doing
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: my literature searches and I'm reading papers, and I might
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: read a study and I'm like, you couldn't conclude anything
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: from that, you know, I want to see this replicated
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: five times over with with these tweaks of this methodology,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: or I'm not putting my weight in that. I'm not.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: And so yes, did I have to sort of self
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: teach my own healing. I did, but I felt capable
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: of doing it. Whereas if I hadn't ever had that training,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I think I would have been in the weeds. I
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: would have just been reading books and youtubing like everybody else,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: even not everybody else, but you know a lot of people. Yeah,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: and in the in the end, just feeling like you've
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: over consumed and what actually works and what doesn't, because.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Over consumption can even disrupt the nervous system even more.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Even more because it goes oh my gosh, analysis paralysis,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: like what do I believe? Who do I trust? What
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: do I do? How do I fix this? And I
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: think the majority of people that come to me are
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: very dysregulated from so much pain and relational trauma. So
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I don't want to go and just put a bunch
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: of complex interventions in their lap and be like, Okay,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: you got to do all the stuff and make them
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: feel more overwhelmed.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's the worst thing. It's the worst.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Working with the nervous system requires a regulated counterpart. And
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: so in my self paced program, I really emphasize here
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: is how maybe we should approach this, depending upon your
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: attachment style. But I can't guarantee the best results unless
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I can attune to your nervous system in real time.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: That's how I can guarantee better results. And so I
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: don't want my self paced program. I think is a
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: beautiful place to start and to get really foundational sort
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: of understanding. That's why I do suggest the group because
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: it's a place where I can look at you, I
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: can see you, I can hear you, I can and
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: you can still participate anonymously. And it gives you the
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: ability to borrow my nervous system so that it sinks in.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: It's real time attonment, real time attonment.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And I just I think when you approach who you
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: want to work with, ask them that how do you
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: approach somebody, Like what is your approach in working with
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: somebody who is extremely dysregulated or has a lot of
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: relational trauma? What are your methods and approaches based in
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Like who's whose theories are you working from? I mean,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of really great people. There's Shaver, There's Frasier,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: There's lots of big names and attachment, and some of
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: them have a little bit more complexity to their approaches
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, healing, And so I would
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: just want you to be confident that you have someone
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: that really knows their stuff that you can be confident
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: in trusting them with your nervous system, especially if you've
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: had a lot of trauma. Somebody that isn't gonna say
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: you're definitely going to be healed after this. You know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: you're definitely going to get this. You're going to get that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: If people are promising you the world like that's saying,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: if it's too good to be true, it probably is
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: kind of comes into play healing. It is never linear,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: and it's not linear to see and it's it's and
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: it's hard, it's hard work.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about one of my favorite things in the world,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: which is sleep. And because you know, most of the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: time I'm tired.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like part of middle age. Now good, we
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: have to get good rest. Absolutely, it's in a requirement
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: after this age.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yes. Absolutely. It proves your mood, your patience, and honestly
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: it improves your relationship. And that's why we love Cozy Earth.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: We do. Cozy Earth makes insanely soft bedding and loungewear
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: that is designed to help you sleep cooler and more comfortably.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Their viscous of bamboo sheets are breathable, temperature controlled, and
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: somehow they get even softer the more that you wash them.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Very true, which that feels like a personal gift to
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: your nervous system.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Yep. And if you share bed with someone who like
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: runs hot, these sheets will save Seriously, I know it
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: sounds out there, but it'll save your relationship. Yeah, and
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Cozy Earth is known for their premium quality and they
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: even offer a generous trial period a sixty a sixty
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: day sleep guarantee where you can sleep on them for
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: sixty days and if you are not one hundred percentatisfied,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: you can send them back.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: You'll be satisfied, you will, Yes.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: And better sleep again means better energy, better connection, and
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: honestly better everything. You can go to cozyearth dot com
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: and use code lovedoc for twenty percent off, and if
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you fill out their post purchase servey a survey, you'll
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: also get a free pair of socks. So go visit
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: cozieerth dot com and mention love doc. Thank you, Cozy Earth.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I can even attest to this just in the short
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: period of time that I coached there simply was not
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: enough knowledge that I had for some of the people
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: that would come in. And of course I would always
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: refer them to you or Elizabeth, I.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Would you know, we would kind of supplement.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I have a bachelor's in psychology, I did
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: social work for a little while, but I've never you know,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I was directly trained under you, and of course we
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: had been friends for a long time, but there were
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: still people that came in that I simply did not
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: have the knowledge or the robustness in my own nervous
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: system to hold in space.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so when we were testing that with you,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: because you know, you were like, I think, I think
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: I kind of want to do this, and you know,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: it was like, okay, well, we're going to put you,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: you know, in this position, and I will support you,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: you know, and I will collaborate with you on client cases,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: and we'll see how it feels to you, and we'll
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: see if you want to continue to pursue more training
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: in this area. And we marketed you that way. You know,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: you're not getting me, you know. And so but then
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you were like, I
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: don't have this in my nervous system to do this,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: and so it was very short lived.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: It was trip.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: But that's okay. Not everybody does have it in their
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: nervous system to handle other people's trauma.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: But that's that's why it's so important. It's so important
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: to know the nervous system so well, how it operates,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: how to build capacity for it. And you know, I
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: can attest to this just from being around you as
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: much as I am, Like, you do have this very
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: calming even like watching the episodes I'm over here, like
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty animated, Like you are very calm. Your voice
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: is very calm. And this is in no way sake or.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Is it just fatigue. I'm just kidding, JK, I'm pretty calm. Yeah.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just think that that added level of
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: training and knowledge, it does make a difference. It makes
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a difference for the ability to hold space for people.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: And let them know that, hey, we got to slow
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: this down really quick. Hey we got to take a
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: breath right here. Let's stop right here, and let's go
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: back to what you just said, and let's pull that
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: apart a little bit. And you have the ability to
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: be direct and compassionate. And that's a gift. It's such
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: a fine line. Yeah, And I think a lot of
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: people are really good at one or the other. And
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: sometimes I doubt myself, like a am I two direct
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: or I too compassionate? But I just try to approach
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: it with I am doing you a disservice if I
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: don't tell you the truth right, because then there's no
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: healing in that because the first step is awareness, but
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: then we build capacity. But if I'm bypassing something that
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: you really need to know about yourself or you're not
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: going to make any progress moving forward, then I have
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: done you a disservice. And at the end of the day,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I can't control how you take that feedback. All I
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: can control is if I've delivered it with respect and
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: with compassion. It's all I can control.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which, you are very good at you are. I've
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: seen it. I've seen it.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I don't want this episode to just be about like
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Fluffy say that, but I.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Feel like I can say that because I have the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: hours invested in being around you as much as I'm
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: around you, seeing how you've coached being in group. So
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: this isn't about you fluffing yourself up. I think it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: you know, I have validity in the fact that I
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: can say this, just like Donald could sit here and
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: say this. We're around you more than anybody. Yeah, I've
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: seen it.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I think the when I decided to do this episode,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: it was like my biggest fear that I was just
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: gonna be here's why you should pick me and not
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: anybody else, because that's just not. That's not realistic, that's
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: not who I am, that's not my goal here, and.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: It's not what you're saying.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: No, But ma'am, when I looked at that guy's website
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and I was like, and you're talking about somatic work
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: just because I had that experience of how badly it
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: can go and how much more harm you can do. Yeah,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: if you don't know what you're.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Doing, well, and that's what I want to you know,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: make clear here you're not just protecting the integrity of
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: your years and years of work. You're protecting people.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: That's my goal here. Yes, that's my whole goal here.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I want to protect people. And so I'm going to say, really,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: ask a lot of questions before you book. I welcome
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: questions everybody that sends us a DM unless we're doing
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: some kind of like live event and it's like sign
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: up to get your DM, me to get your link,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: and it's like an automation, which we don't do that frequently,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: but sometimes we do. You are going to talk to
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: a real live person on the Love Doc team who
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: has been through all of my coursework, who you know
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: they're not going to be they can't really coach you
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: over social media messages. I don't think that that's ethical,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: but they can hold space for you and they can
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: guide you to the right product or service for you
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and your situation and what you're experiencing. And so we
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: don't try to overseell. We don't promise you the world.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: We look at your situation and we're like, here's where
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: you would probably be a good fit. And of course
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: your level of ability to invest in certain products and
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: services is going to influence that. But really it's about
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: what's going on with your nervous system and your relationship situation.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people will say, what's the difference
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: between you and Elizabeth. Elizabeth is great if you are
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: looking for a foundational walkthrough, if your relationship isn't like
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: on the edge of divorce, if you are looking for
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: someone who is like a warm, fuzzy blanket. But if
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: you are someone that is in a relationship and there
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: needs to be hard truths told and you are willing
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: to go deep, you need to go deeper, like there
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: are very serious problems in this relationship, Like it's if
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: this doesn't work, it's divorce time. I would choose me. Yeah,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: and I'm not again Elizabeth is great, a master's degree
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: in counseling. She is very trauma informed. She studied attachment
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: far before she came on with me, or I wouldn't
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: have hired her. She's been trained under my curriculum. But
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: she stays in her lane very much. So she stays
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: in her lane. You have to stay in your lane.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to refer somebody who's like on
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the edge of collapse to Elizabeth, because I have told Elizabeth,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I don't want you entering this lane because at the
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: end of the day, my name is on this brand,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: and if somebody has that level of relational trauma or issue,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I want to go to bed at night knowing that
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: I handled it. And maybe that's maybe that's too controlling.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think that's controlling. I think that maybe
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: it's too controlling. I think that's acknowledging.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: And we're trying to make that more clear on the
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: website too, which maybe we haven't done as good of
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: a job making that as clear on the website as and.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: We're I don't think we have. We're fixing lots of things, guys,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: lots of things. I don't think that's controlling. I think
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: that's again protecting people and acknowledging who is the best
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: fit for what they're going through. And Elizabeth gets great reviews,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: wonderful reviewe Amy.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Amy does too, coach Amy does too. And Amy doesn't
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: do groups, she just does individuals. But she's been heavily trained.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: She's in the process of getting her master's degree. But
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: we're upfront about that, right, there's a reason why Amy's
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: prices or Amy's prices and my prices or my prices.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: You're not just paying for that hour for four weeks.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: You're paying for my twenty years of experience. You're paying
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: You're paying for my doctoral education. You're paying for my
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: own trauma that I had to navigate and figure out.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And when I hear story after story after story that
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: sounds like what I've been through, I'm just like, Okay,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: you're in the right place. Yeah, And that's a good
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: feel at the end of the day, to know that
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I can serve people and help them feel better and
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: help them have better relationships. But more all of the story,
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I don't don't just go to anybody. Guys, do your
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: due diligence, Do your due diligence, Ask questions, ask what
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: their training is, Ask what their credentials are. Ask them
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: how they approach a nervous system that has a lot
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: of relational trauma. Ask them, you know, what would their
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: approach be if a client started to feel destabilized in
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: the work. Ask the questions.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I think this is a very, very very important episode because,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: like you said, in a world where where we are
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: just infiltrated with so much information when it comes to
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: our health. I mean we even talked about this with
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: doctor Rothman last week about when it comes to your health,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: and then you become so infiltrated with all this information,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: you get decision fatigue and then you just sort of
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: like throw your hands up in the air and you're like, well,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: you know, And that's where you have to ask yourself,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: what is the cost of not doing this versus the
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: cost of doing it?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I think the same thing can be applied
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: to trying to navigate a chronic illness where you're going
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: to get online and someone's gonna say, oh, NAD is
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a miracle supplement. Oh, you need to detalk, you need
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: to do a heavy metal detalk, you need to do
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: a parasite cleanse. Oh my gosh, you need to go
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: gluten free, you need to do all of these things.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: But is that relevant to your unique biology? Is that
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: relevant to your genetics? Is that relevant to your symptoms.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: It's never a real one size fits all journey. Even
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: though the tools that I teach are conceptually the same
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: for everyone, the way in which you use them has
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: to be adapted to your attachment and to your nervous
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: system stability. And I try to make that like abundantly clear.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: So I always say she's the triple threat, guys, because
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: she's got the education, she's got the real life experience,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: but above all that, she's a teacher. And you know,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: teaching is a gift that not many people have. So
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: to be able to take really complex information and break
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: it down to make it make sense to where the
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: light bulbs start to go off and perspective shifts, well,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: that's when you can start building capacity and you can
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: start changing behavior.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Because defenses have to come down. Yeah, defenses have to
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: come down before you do this work. And that is
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: why I am so adamant that if you have dismissive
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: avoidant attachment, or you are the partner of someone with
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: dismissive avoidant attachment, don't do one on one work. Don't
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: do it. I've heard enough about how it's they quit.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it makes it worse, It makes it worse.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: They get so triggered. I was reading some comments just
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: this morning about so many comments because I just happened
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to watch one of your older videos about the dismissive
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: avoidant and how sometimes they do worse in one on
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: one settings, and like the comments that were coming through
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: on that video were just like, oh my gosh, I
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: just had the biggest all hal moment. This exact thing
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: happened to my partner and me where we started marriage counseling,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: and it just got worse from there, and it just
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: got worse, and it just got worse. I mean, all
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: these comments there was like an underlying theme it just
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: got worse.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Just got worse. There was a post in our Facebook
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: group about how she's on This woman was on the
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: brink of divorce after a year of marriage counseling with
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: her DA and I'm just like, gosh, I wish I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: could have told you a year ago. Don't do it. Yeah,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: don't do it. Their defenses are too high. It's going
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: to cause more dysregulation, their nervous system is going to
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: be more frozen. You're just looking to push that person
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: right off the cliff.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's really something that sets your program apart.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Got to bring defenses down before learning can really start,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: in capacity building can truly start, and so well.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: In the environment that the DA can be in in
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: group is well one, it's microdos information micro DOST. So
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: it's not like this influx of just tons and tons
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: of information where they're just like, oh my gosh. Then
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: they go into freeze even more.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Right, because we're talking about information that inherently makes them unk. Right,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: So you've got a micro doos you have to.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: And then they have, you know, this opportunity to just
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: be a fly on the wall and observe and an observation.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, they feel very safe in observation mode. They don't
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: feel good in integration mode. But they You wouldn't believe
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: the change in a DA participant from class one to
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: class four. In class four, their their hands are up.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: That's amazing, you know they are because they're ready for integration,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: they're ready for application. In class one they're like, I
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: don't I don't think I want to be here. I
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: don't think I need to be here. Yeah, I don't
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: want to do this. And then I think it's being
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: able to explain their own internal experience and reflect it
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: back to them. I know that this is how you feel.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: You feel like you're just going through the world trying
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: to be a good person, trying to work hard, and
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: your partner is always mad at you, and you sort
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: of subconsciously and deep down feel like a giant failure.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: And it makes you feel picked on, and it makes
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: you feel judged, and it makes you feel like you're
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: in a relationship where you can't get anything right, and
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: that's painful. And you know how many of them go.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I have spent so long feeling like this in my relationship,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: but I didn't have the vocabulary to explain it this way,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: because again, the connection between their emotion and their verbalization
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: of that emotion, they're weak. There's not much connection there
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: because they were denied emotional attunant, there weren't emotional conversations.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Those connections aren't there.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And then their partner looks at them and they're like,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I am so sorry, Like I didn't realize that this
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: was your experience to me on the outside it just
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: looked like you didn't care.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Life changing? How life changing for both partners to have
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: that realization is maybe like the more anxious one to
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: be like wow, to know your internal experience, to have
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: that realization, that wake up call, I mean, and then
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: to be able to lead in with more compassion and curiosity.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It removes shame, Yes, it removes the biggest barrier the
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: dismissive awarant has. His shame. Deffectiveness is a shame wound,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and it's a powerful shame wound. And so if you're
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: going to approach a dismissive avoidance, you can't go in
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: there guns a blazing, like, you can't do this anymore,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: you can't be this way anymore. And sometimes when I
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: hear the tone of stuff out there, I'm like, it
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: villainizes them, and that's just going to bring up more
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: shame and more of their defenses. And then you're you're
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: shooting yourself on the foot.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So to wrap all this up, we just want
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to reinuterrate to all of our listeners that again, I
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: think the message here is safety safety. Yeah, safety safety safety,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: and do like I mean, think about if you were
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know, buying a new couch, like you're going
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: to do due diligence, you're going to do any deal.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're buying a new car, don't you
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: want to know if it's a safe car?
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, do you want to.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Know how much gas? Malogy?
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: It gets better? Analogy? It's an count. She's really good
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: at the analogies too. Guys.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: You know why analogies work in teaching, because it, I mean,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: it just makes it makes sense. Yeah, well, Jesus taught
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: in parables, which are essentially analogies. Yeah, it's because it
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: lowers people's defenses. It's because you're putting it in a
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: different context that doesn't necessarily directly apply to their exact situation. Right,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, the underlying message applies to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: their situation, so it gets through to them without raising
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: their defenses.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Right, and it doesn't make them feel wrong. It's just
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: a different way to look at it.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that makes sense. See you, guys, I just
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: learned something new here. So please, guys again, we just
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: we can't say, yeah, just be safe.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: You don't have to work with me, that's okay, keep
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: tuning in for all the.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I can say about you. Guys, there's nobody better to
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: work to work with. I mean, I can say it
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: openly and honestly, and I have done tons and tons.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Ray it looks at my competitors, all of data, and
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: I don't do it just because I just don't want
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: that to be my focus. And I don't want social
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: comparison to be my focus.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: My job.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I want it is her job. I want to focus
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: on what I know and doing what I know really well,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: and then everybody else is going to be everybody else. Yep.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: But I just I try not to look unless they
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: like pop up in it again, like it's obvious, like
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: this one, this one guy that popped up and he's
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: I went on his website and I was like, where's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: what we do? You just talk about somatic training and
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: nervous system rewiring and healing and he was talking about
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: trauma healing and all the things. And I'm like, okay, cool,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: who are you? Let me go check you out, like what,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Let's go to Reddit. Let's see what is Reddit say
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: and then there's no credentials anyway. Oh okay, okay, but anyway,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: so please go check out one way to do your
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: due diligence. I mean, doctor Hinsley, you're all over the internet.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, there's I mean, obviously go to our website,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: the lovedoc dot com. But I mean you've published papers.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: You're out there in the world, d am and not
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: under the name Hinsley though.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Flynn. Yeah, you'd have to go to Flynn Flynn f
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: l n N if you really want to.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: And there are several Sarah Flynn's in the academic world.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: So it does make it a little bit harder. But
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I'm excited because I want to publish my and it's
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: going to take like years. My attachment assessment.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: That's because one quizzes are ruining people. They are oh
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: my gosh, because they get it wrong nine times out
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: of ten, nine times out of tens wrong. It's because
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: a true psychological assessment is going to measure for malingering
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: and self report bias and sealing effects and floor effects
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: and all that's a bunch of research stuff. Quizzes can't
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: capture the construct of attachment. It is a construct, meaning
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: that it has elements that make it up, but has
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: building blocks, and you have to measure the building blocks.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: You can't just put a question out there because it
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: sounds good, like, oh, do you overtext? That might just
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: be like texting anxiety, Like it just blows my mind.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: And it blows my mind that are people that there
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: are people out there that should know that that's not okay,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: and they're doing it anyway.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And we still get that question a lot, and
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: you know, so it's always worth you know, bringing up
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: again why you don't advocate for it, because it because.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: They don't measure anything. I might as well ask you what's.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Your favorite pet?
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and be like, okay, you have anxious preoccupied attachment. Yeah,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: it's the same thing.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, A question that sounds good doesn't mean it measures anything. Yeah,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: And there's a science to that. There's a science of measurement,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: especially when they're non tangible things like thoughts and feelings.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: There's a science to it to make sure you do
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: it right.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: And she's the only one that knows it.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: No, I'll say it, that's not true.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: That's sure.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I say I didn't invent psychometrics.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Well, you know it really well, and I still chi
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: do you think.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: That there's one graduate student on the face of the
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: earth that ever wanted to take psychometrics?
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: No? No, Warren class. The history pretty interesting.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I tried to make it interesting.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Well, what did you tell me that one day when
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: we were in Nashville and we were walking out of
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: the doctor's office and we were talking about just I
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: can't remember what we were talking about, how well versed
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: you were in, you know, in this topic and all
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: these topics. And you said something about when you're learning something,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: teaching it is the last step. Teachings the last step.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Teaching it shows that you know it.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, teaching it is the demonstration of the knowledge. Yeah.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: And when I think about you, so you taught and statistics, well,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: statistics is the foundation of psychology. I loved my statistics.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: The foundation of all psychological research is statistics.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I loved the puzzle pieces that statistics.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: It's a different kind of math, and it's not like calculus.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Calculus is like there's a right answer and a wrong answer,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: and statistics are is best answers based on your data.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of assumptions that have to be made,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: and you have to check assumptions, and you have to
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: make best judgments and best guesses, and then there's arbitrary
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: cutoff points and they're freaking arbitrary. Like, there's a paper
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: written by I want to say it was. It was
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: either Cohen or Rosenthal, Robert Rosenthal from Harvard or Jacob Cohen,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: and it was entitled God loves p of point oh
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: six as much as he loves P of point oh five.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: So what is P of point oh five? It's a
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: probability value. So it's basically saying, we are willing to
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: accept five percent error rate, five percent chance that this
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: result is of luke. That's the most error we're willing
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: to accept in this statistical analysis. But what about six percent?
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: Somebody I think it was Cohen, and I don't know
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: again if it was Rosenthal that wrote the paper, but
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I was Cohen that made the decision that as five
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: percent are as arbitrary as it comes. But you know
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: what if you're if you get a P of point
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: oh six, you probably can't publish that paper.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: That's the one point that one point higher, right, Is
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: that what that means? Yeah?
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: Point yeah, I mean essentially, yeah, one percentage point interesting.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: And so again that is we're looking at science. Takes
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: a trained eye. It takes a trained eye to be
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: able to take something published from the science and put
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: it out there into the world and know what it
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: really means and what it can.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Really do, and that does set you apart. I mean,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: it definitely does from a lot of the competitors out there,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: and again we're not knocking any of those people. But
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about doctor Hensley and
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: all of her services, you can check her out at
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: the lovedoc dot com and of course on any of
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: her social media handles at doctor Sarah Hensley. Guys, please
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: continue to tune in, like, follow, leave us a comment.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: We love to hear from you.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: We love hearing from you.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to say it again, if you've gone
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: through the Hybrid Group program program and you've made it
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: this far, we are looking for video testimonies and if
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: you are willing to allow us to use your testimony
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: and listen, even if it has constructive feedback, we're willing
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: to take it.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: We want to learn about accountability, yes, and we always.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Are trying to improve and be better, So please give
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: us your feedback. We honor it, we love it as
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: long as it's kind, like don't be an asshole, but kind.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Constructive feedback we are willing to take. So you can
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: reach out to me personally at right at thelovedot dot
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: com if you are willing to do that for us,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: so please, guys continue to tune in. We love each
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: and every one of you, and until next time, peace,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: love and perspective.