Latest / Pittsburgh Sports Memories / I'm Going to Disney World!

Transcript

I'm Going to Disney World! · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to another MVP edition of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm going to Disneyland, Tim.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to go to Disneyland?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are you more of a Disney World guy?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, sure.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: I've never been to Disneyland, so I'd love to go.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would definitely, you know, be the MVP of this podcast.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, Tim.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's been voted on by the voters.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: You have no choice in the matter.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't guessed what we're called covering today, we're going to cover the MVP awards and all the different major sports, which will be baseball, hockey, football.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Since we don't have a basketball team, we can't have an NBA, MVT, MVP, Tim.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we won't cover the NBA.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hummer.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it it's it it's an interesting award.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's very subjective.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's led to a lot of controversial outcomes.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we're kind of going to go over a couple of those at the end here.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be interesting.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll start with the uh Super Bowl MVP, which they actually won a car for, which is interesting.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um the I'm going to Disney World Disneyland tradition actually be only began in 1987.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the first early Super Bowls here, like the ones in the 70s, they actually didn't say that, Tim.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: That you didn't know that, huh?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And can you guess the first person to say I'm going to Disneyland was?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I believe it or not, I know that story.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was Phil Sims after that 86.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like you said, it 86 Super Bowl, but would have been played in like January of 87.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: 87, yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I I I saw a feature on that at one point.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think he practiced like saying that line like over and over again.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So Phil Sims.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then he probably botted it.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I'm going to Universal Warhol.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll start with the first uh MVP of the Steelers for the Super Bowl ever, and that would be Mr.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Franco Harris in Super Bowl nine.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um he has 34 carries for 156 yards, um, which was then a Super Bowl record.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I guess a pretty good uh Minnesota defense, the purple people eaters, Jim Marshall and all the other guys there.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um he carried really carried the offense that day.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Although Terry did make like a clutch throw for a touchdown at the end of the game.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: It really was more of the defense in the running game that won that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um Lin Swan was quoted as saying, You are the best effing back in the world.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, they really they really printed that in the paper, Tim.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: They really well actually they said you are the best bleeping back in the world in the whole wide world.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, he he was going through a wild group of Steeler fans at the team hotel.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um, can you guess uh what vehicle uh Franco Harris won for his efforts?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because they do give out a vehicle for the Super Bowl MVP.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 1974 uh Dodge Dart.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Jeep Wagoneer, which isn't bad.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not a bad car.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um I have no idea what the resale value on that was, but uh, it was the 70s.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess we were in the gas crisis, so that's definitely a gas guzzler.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: But um I mean, I don't know, it's a it's a diverse deserved record.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Franco is one of the most clutch performers in Steelers history, maybe outside of another guy that got MVP.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just really his playoff, I think rushing record still ranks first and second all time.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, Franco just, you know, when it counted, Franco seemed to turn it on.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Him and Terry, Terry Bradshaw was very clutch too, but he played quarterback, not running back.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, any thoughts on Franco's Super Bowl nine performance, Tib?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean that was really the offense in that game, was him running the ball.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: So um deserved MVP, and that was back in the era too, where that that running back in the in the first half of the 70s was the equivalent of a quarterback today.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Jerry Moon Mullins probably maybe should have got a little bit of credit because he made that great block on that big run.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was that that wasn't the was that the clincher when no, the pass, the pass of the tight end clinched the game, I think, didn't it?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: It it did, but it was it was 2-0 when when in the half, at the half.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: At the half, and then and then they got a turnover, and then Mullins made that block, and that put him up uh nine to nothing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was nine to six, and then and then Brad's author in that pass just like you said, clinched it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was only nine to six because the Vikings blocked a punt.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the Steelers defense actually pitched a shutout.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh but but you know, it was still they still so so the the yeah, the Bradth touchdown was just endurance points.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: So so you're right, the Franco run really was the game winner.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's Super Bowl nine, that was a long time ago.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: What was that, 1974?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, so that's been over 50 years.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there aren't a lot of a lot of guys have passed away from that team too.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Franco.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Franco's no longer with us.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Terry's still with us.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in Super Bowl 10, um, the MVP of that game was Lin Swan, Tim, and you are going to absolutely laugh when you hear what car he got.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, this is the gas crisis.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, Tim, we go from a Jeep Wagoneer to this car.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what car Lynn Swan got for his efforts of being too rolled?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: No idea.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I don't I I don't know what the resale price on this.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was a 19, what is it, 1974?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh AMC Pacer X, affectionately known as the Pregnant Roller Skate.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually have a picture of him sitting on the car.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was a pretty crappy car.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like AMC doesn't even exist anymore.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think they were bought out by Dodge, and you know, it what a horrible car.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so four receptions for 161 yards and a TD.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Cliff Harris, boy, Cliff Harris really liked to shoot off his mouth.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: He had a couple guys on the uh Dallas team that liked to shoot off their mouth, huh?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he stated before the game that they were gonna knock Lynn Swan out just like the Raiders had.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um Swan stated before the game that they had after the game, actually, they'd seen that the Cowboys were playing a lot of single coverage and they thought they would take advantage.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the Cowboys kind of like saw you know the Steelers, they thought the Steelers was a running team, and they were probably right, but um Terry Bradshaw was up to the task, and so was Lynn Swan.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um stated after the Harris comments that Harris doesn't know me or very much about the Pittsburgh Steelers.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess now he does.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um fun fact was uh you want a fun fact?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, you want a fun fact, sure you love fun facts.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Lynn Swan's backup in college was uh Major League Baseball center fielder Fred Lind, who played for the Red Sox.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the coaches would confuse Lynn Swan and Fred Lynn.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like one guy's it's his first name, one guy's last name.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So like they were like, hey, this Lynn guy is giving a hard the teacher a hard time, and the coach was like, Lynn Swan, what are you doing?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, no, it's Fred Lynn, the baseball the other guy.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So nice.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, at USC, I guess the coach that well, yeah, wouldn't that have been uh the legendary coach of the the guy who ended up coaching Tampa Bay, John uh John McKay?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh possibly I don't know John McKay.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, it doesn't say John McKay's name, so maybe it might have been asked no, because Swan graduated like 73, 74, and McKay didn't start coaching the Bucks till like 76.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Anywho, that's enough USC history for one moment.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: USC and the Boston Red Sox.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Who knew we'd cover them in this podcast, not to?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Let's never speak of them again.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm coming up to um the 1978 season with Terry Bradshaw, and um, there's another guy later on this list, and we'll kind of debate this later, Tim.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: But this this guy, he was both the NV NFL MVP and the Super Bowl MVP.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Patrick Mahomes, Kurt Warner, Steve Young, Emmett Smith, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Barts Star are the other seven people.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: But no, it's obviously a rare feat.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Tom Brady never did it, which is or Peyton Manning.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of interesting, huh?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I guess not only do you have to be the best player in the league, you have to make the Super Bowl and then be the best player of the Super Bowl.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not an easy task to do.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, his stats, his season stats are incredible.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: He had almost 3,000 passing yards, 28 touchdowns.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: He did throw 20 interceptions, but that's kind of how Terry rolled.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, then in Super Bowl 13, his he's pretty good.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 318 yards.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: His percentage, you got to remember, like his completion percentage is like 56, but like Tim said, you ran the ball a lot back then.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they weren't really throwing for complete for completions like they do now, where they dink and dunk.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: They more threw a lot of deep passes, but he did throw four touchdowns and one interceptions, and he had pass a rating of 119.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's pretty good.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: He had a long pass of 75 yards.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had 253 yards in the first half alone.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: He set a new record.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: He'd actually uh the this the uh paper was like it was a performance worthy of the Immortals, the Sammy Boss, the Norm Van Bronklins, the Johnny Unitis.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, this is way back when, huh, Tim?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um he had earned him the MVP award.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the Steelers at that point were the first team to win three Super Bowls.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um Steel uh Bradshaw had actually passed uh uh Roger Staubach's passing record, which I guess he had from another Super Bowl, he had been in by halftime.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, he had uh he had that the the first half they had that long pass to Stalworth.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was like an 80-yard pass or 75-yard pass.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously that helped, but still that's a lot, even even today that would be a lot of yards by halftime, much less in 1978, so uh of course we have a cool picture with him and Jojo Starbuck, the uh ice skater.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is he an ice?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was an ice skater, that was his first wife.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um there was a there's also like Lynn Swan stumbled over a defender, Bendy Barnes.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's like considered a controversial pass interference.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the Cowboys crying.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we really need to do we we have not covered that Super Bowl like in a proper episode, and it's really one that we have to do at some point.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh some some great thoughts by a guy, an up-and-coming young writer in 1979.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh some guy named John Clayton.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I hear he writes his ESPN segments in his mom's house.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, let me know.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Mom, my segments are that's such a great sports center commercial.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I miss, I miss John Clayton.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: He was a good one.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, he has definitely passed away.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh Hollywood Henders, Hollywood, this is from John Clayton.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hot Hollywood Henderson feels that Terry Bradshaw would have trouble spelling cat if he was spotted a C and a T.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bradshaw, a seven-point uh spot Bradshaw, a seven-point deficit in the Super Bowl, and he'll spell out MBP and goodbye, Cowboys.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, John Clayton talking some trash.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So and uh he said uh he wrapped Dallas's defense in a terrible towel and hurled it in the perfect spiral to Texas.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love John.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Jack Clayton was great.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are back in the days when you could talk some trash in the paper.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, can you guess what car um Terry got in 1979?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it it's the most appropriate car for this era.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh an Oldsmobile cutless.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Even better.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now remember, he was in Smoking the Bandit 2, Tim.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So he definitely got a 1979 Pontiac Transam.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a Transam.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's that is perfect.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was if you remember, he did make a cameo in uh or did he have a big uh he had a part in smoking the bandit too for sure.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So he was kind of like he was playing like that caricature of himself where he was like the southern hick.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, ooh, doggy, woohoo, ha ha.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like okay, Terry.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: But Terry, that that might be the best Super Bowl performance by Steeler and the best season by Steeler.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'll at least go that far.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be one of the greatest combo like performances in Pittsburgh sports history, quite honestly.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: That that could be the greatest season.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not hyperbole to say that.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I I totally agree.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's not hyperbole at all.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you when you think about the matchup in the Super Bowl, too.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that was literally He played a tough team.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like he played like a team that was like the next year where they play the Rams, which was kind of a surprising team.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it was like this it was literally the two teams of the decade, you know.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: They had each other.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in a remote.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: But they had both been to like multiple Super Bowls, they both won multiple Super Bowls.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it was it was I I don't even know that you'd have anything really comparable to it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe like the Manning Brady stuff later is probably the closest.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, weren't in a Super Bowl, yeah.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was maybe like Washington and San Francisco, but once again, they weren't really in a Super Bowl.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so it's it's fine, it's tough to find anything comparable to that because um, you know, you just you had these these back and forth, we won some Super Bowls, you won some Super Bowls.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: So so I think the just the the the season he had and then the magnitude of that game and the matchup and facing Starbuck and outplaying Starbuck, that yeah, I I you're right, it's not hyperbole to say that that might have been the greatest performance.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Although Starbuck kind of had like a little bit of a reputation of not winning the big one, too.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: The Cowboys did for a while, like you know, next year's champion and stuff, like back in the early 70s, you know?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that leads us to the next year, Super Bowl 14, and once again it's Terry Bradshaw.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um only six players have won the Super Bowl MVP more than once.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Any guesses on who they are?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: One is still a current player.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean Mahomes, Brady, Montana are definitely three of them.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Correct?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Bradshaw is one of them.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Bart Star is one of them.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's the list, I think.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I got Brady, Montana.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Brady actually has five.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Has the most.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Montana with three.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think I have Mahomes with three and Bart Starr with two.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and Brad and Bradshaw with two, obviously.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's that's kind of a rare feat to win two.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean Brady, five alone.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean Brady does have seven Super Bowl rings, so yeah.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's it's funny, the ones like where he didn't I think he did not get the MVP in the 28-3 game.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but but then he brought them back from 28-3.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So did he get the one in the uh game where um the guy made the interception against Seattle?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he got that.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Dexter Jackson.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I would hope he didn't get that.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think he did.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I th I think the only thing that's bull crap because Dexter uh, you know, come on.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it wasn't Dexter Jackson, it was um not Dexter Jackson, it was um yeah, Malcolm Butler.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Malcolm Butler, yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Jackson's.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: That was the Steelers' bad memory.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or no, that was the Raiders' Raiders' bad memory memory, yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: But but the uh the the the uh they they weren't gonna give him MVP because of one play.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's usually not the way those awards were like James Harrison didn't get the MVP in.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: Super Bowl in Super Bowl 43, even though he made that big play, so yeah.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I think the I think the other one where he didn't get MVP, don't quote me on this, but I think it was the the first Eagle Super Bowl.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think that they got to Dion branch.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Branch.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sounds right.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the and the Falcon Super Bowl, I think they gave it to um the running back, maybe no, no, no, the receiver uh Edelman.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think they gave it to Edelman.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for that catch where he dives over the well, and just just the stats.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like he just had a big game, I think, in that Super Bowl.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, you talked about the um the seven guys that were MVP and Super Bowl MVP in the same season.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: That really should have Matt Ryan should have been the eighth guy on that list, but again, 28-3.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um anywho, uh so we're at Super Bowl 14.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of like the end of the Steelers dynasty.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he he goes 14 for 21.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: He has a better passing percentage, and he does have 309 yards.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: He throws for two touchdowns, but this is kind of shows like he doesn't have that great of a game.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: He has three interceptions, and you know, I I don't know what to tell you.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we did we did an episode about that game, and and and the one interception especially was like they were down at like the ten-yard line.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we're gonna take the lead, and it and then it looked for a while like they were gonna lose, but then he makes that throw to Stalworth.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: After that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it remember too, back then like interceptions were much more common.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just wasn't like you said about dinking and dunking and being safe.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Throwing the ball was much that's why that's why they didn't throw the ball.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't throw the ball that much because it was just a high risk play back then.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and and honestly, like if you throw three interceptions, but then you come back and win the game on a on a a 70 plus part yard touchdown pass at the end, then you you probably still deserve MVP even if that was today.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So well, I mean, even Gus Farragama, who probably would have been the Super Bowl MVP if Bradshaw he didn't throw any touchdowns and he threw one interception.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And he was 19 for 34, so his his passer rating wasn't that great either.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Bradshaw said, and this kind of like is interesting, like all I could think about was losing, Bradshaw said.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't thinking about winning.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's unusual.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: The score 28 to 7 kept coming into the mind.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I thought someone would win by that score.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he said he had not slept all week at the team's hotel.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: So or he just hadn't slept.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So um at the after the game, he says, Can we keep up this pace?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Bradshaw side.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly don't know.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm drained to repeat next year is going to be very difficult, the most difficult thing we've ever done.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if theme but if a team can ever win three in a row, it will be this one.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, if you cut out that last little like thing, you know, I I think he realizes that they're probably not gonna win next year, that that's probably it for them.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, and and it I get that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like it is hard to keep up that pace.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's no teams ever won three in a row.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh it's kind of an asterisk that the the Packers have done it, but not really.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it wasn't the Super Bowl, it wasn't three Super Bowls in a row.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I mean it's still champ impressive.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: A championship and then two Super Bowls is not an easy task.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And even they had to win the uh Ice Bowl that one, which you know, they played a pretty tough Dallas team.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just it's just when you when you start growing the league and then you start when you merge the two leagues together, then it became much, much harder to do something like that.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: When you had 13 teams, your percentages are in your favor to win more than one in a row.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: When you have 28, 30, 32 teams, percentages are not in your favor.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, Steve, not to back up to to Brady again.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um the the two of the Super Bowls Eli.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: We forgot somebody on the multiple MVP list.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Two of the Super Bowls that Brady lost was to Eli.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Eli, yeah, that's right.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot to add Eli.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, we forgot Eli.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Eli.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: We love you, Eli.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I do love Eli.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: I do too.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I I love that guy.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: There was a post, there was a post on on X um recently from some Falcons report or somebody that said, uh, you know, ponder this.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Matt Ryan deserves to be in the Hall of Fame more than Eli Manning.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And Eli Manning replied to it, he's like, I'm gonna play with my rings as I ponder that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: So he just he always has good comebacks for everything.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's just he's a hilarious dude.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, he beat Tom Brady twice.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And who yeah, who else can say that?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, his brother can't really say that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: No, hardly anybody can say that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody can say that.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's one of the most cut clutch players in NFL history.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like I said, if if my life defended depended on it and I needed a like Super Bowl winning drive or a game, a game winning drive at the end of the game.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I he's very Terry Bradshaw like, like he might throw a bunch of interceptions, but if the game's within a score at the end of the game, give me give me Eli.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like for whatever reason, he Just like it does the moment doesn't get to him.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Super Bowl 40 um was won Heinz Ward.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So uh he had a great Super Bowl, and he's probably I would say, like outside of Franco or Terry, he's probably the mod most modern clutch player the Steelers have had of the last you know 15 to 20 years.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like even like even his stats with Cordell like in that AFC championship game in 2001 were really good.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like Belichick came to him after the game and said, I tried to stop you.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like he he had a Ty Law's lunch that game.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like he really and he didn't have the greatest quarterback in the world throwing him the ball.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um he had five receptions, 123 yards, um, a receiving touchdown.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was the pass, the 43-yard pass from Antoine Randle.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he actually had a carry for 18 yards, which I remember that kind of got them going because they were kind of stagnant a little bit on offense early in that game.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: 141 all-purpose yards.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, of course, the big catch from Randall to put the uh game away.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um nice quote from uh Ward.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's no question I couldn't do this without my teammates.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank my offensive coordinator, Ken Wizenut, my receivers coach, Bruce Arians.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, Bruce Arians and Antoine, he threw a hell of a ball.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is truly a dream come true as a kid watching Jerry Rice and Joe Montana, all those guys playing the Super Bowl.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is a big honor.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: I forget what what car did he win?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was like an escalade or something, wasn't it?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um anyway, uh I mean biggest play in Steelers history of the last couple years.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of the Troy Paul Malo.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's up there.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the next Super Bowl MVP had it had a pretty big play, too.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm looking up the Super Bowl MVP 40 car was a 2007 Cadillac Escalade.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was black, it was pretty sweet looking.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how about Super Bowl 43, Tim?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's the tippy-toe catch of Santonio Holmes.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he was another guy, it was pretty clutch.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: He he he had some if he just would have stayed on the straight and arrow, what could have been with him, huh?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: He had nine receptions in the game for 131 yards, one touchdown, his longest reception was 40 yards, and at that time he was the sixth wide receiver to be MVP.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think that's the third, the third stealer wide receiver to win the award.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So 50% of the time a wide receiver wins MVP, it's a Steeler.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if any won since that's 20 years ago.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Edelman.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um Rothelsberger said, Oh, thought it would be picked when he threw that game-winning, you know, pass.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: He said it was a heck of a catch, which it was.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Holmes also thought, and I've heard that about both him and Ben say that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Remember the play before where Ben kind of had to throw it high?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe Ben could have thrown a little loader.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Ben was being careful with the ball, and Holmes jumps up, but it was a really, really tough catch, and it kind of goes between his hands and he as he falls to the uh end zone.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe should have made that catch.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I never I never thought that was a blatant drop.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I didn't think so either.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think it was more just it it it it would have been an easier, quote unquote, easier catch than the one he actually made the play after war.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because it would have been like a well he was more open, but he wasn't like Ben had I think Ben was trying to throw it where only Holmes could get it.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been like Dwight Clark, it would have been that kind of a play, like back of the end zone, like leaping up in the air or so.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: It you're right.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: It it was possible, but like you're right, it wasn't like it hit him in the chest.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um it wasn't, yeah, he wouldn't have been the sickest man in America.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right going back to the other Super Bowl there.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's of course reference to was that Jackie Smith, yeah, dropped famously dropped a catch in the end zone of Super Bowl 13.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Which totally lost the Cowboys the game, even though it actually didn't.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: But that's a story for another day.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So so Steve, I I think one thing for Holmes is uh one play that that doesn't get enough credit is the play he made to get them down to the five-yard line.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a huge catch.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Was that on third down?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it was third down, but it was like it was like a short pass.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like a deep pass.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And he kind of just like zips through the entire defense.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: I remember at the time, like I just was watching him run through the defense.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: You couldn't really tell where he was on the field because there's a lot of guys around.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I couldn't believe because like Gal Mike was like, and he's down at the five.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, whoa, he took that all the way to the five-yard line.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you knew at that point they were at least in field goal range, and Jeff Reed wasn't missing that.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's what I'm saying.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: That was that was a monster play because now they had first and goal at the five, and they had a chance to take shots at the end zone.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas before that, they they weren't even in field goal range, and that was just an innocent looking little Well, it was like 10 yards.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: He like kind of came back to the ball, and like I the pass went like 10 or 15 yards, but like you said, it wasn't a super long pass.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then he just zipped through everybody.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they started that drive first and 20 on a holding call from the 12-yard line, and and that was a pass to Holmes that got them out of that too.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: So he was he was clutching and on the uh safety, that was a pass to Holmes too.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they don't call that holding, that's the game.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like yeah, that's a good call.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: That would have iced the game there.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that and that wasn't and that was a Super Bowl.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Go back to the championship game, that the huge touchdown he had against the Ravens in the championship game.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: He had a punt return for the turn against San Diego, yeah.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, in the playoffs.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: He had a great playoff, yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I said, he was one of the more clutch players outside of Heinz Ward.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like Steve, the touchdown in Baltimore to win them the division.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Back regular season on the line, yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he really had a great season.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a shame he couldn't like have stayed like out of trouble.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: It really is a shame.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: And and you're right, that that's one of the that you talked about like Bradshaw having like the the greatest season.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I I also don't think it would be hyperbole to put Holmes somewhere in the top five or ten for that, just because of how many clutch plays he made that year.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, now why why wasn't Ben the MVP of this game, Tim?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I if if of all the Super Bowl, the three Super Bowls, obviously the one was a loss, like Ben, yeah, he had a touchdown and interception, 256 yards, 21 of 30, which is you know, a pass the rating of 93-2.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: He actually had better stats probably than Bradshaw had in some of his Super Bowl MVPs, but why do you think they gave it to Holmes over Bradshaw?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think so so that's that's tough when you give um the MVP award to a wide receiver because well, who threw them the ball?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right as the quarterback.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and the the the Super Bowl that Gary Rice was the MVP of was the one against the Bengals where Montana drove them down.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: That was the John Candy Montana drove him down the field, but Gary Rice was the MVP.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And does again deservedly so he made a bunch of clutch plays, um, but so did Montana, obviously.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: That that's a tough call.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean again.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, didn't Taylor Taylor catch the game-winning touchdown?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I do think that if Heath Miller or Pines Ward or Nate Washington catches that pass to like say it wasn't a tippy toe, it was just you know, back of the end zone touchdown.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I think maybe then Ben's the MVP.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I think Holmes making all those big plays and then making that catch in the manner he did too.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like the the like getting his toes down, I think it was just you know, but but I think again, every are you know, I think um wasn't Cooper Cup the MVP when the Rams won the Super Bowl?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why not staff?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard, yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: So so it's it's I you probably make that argument for every receiver quarterback, you know.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: MVP.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I forgot, yeah.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I always forget about Cooper Cup.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's really good.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, he was.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it's tough because you know, do you quarterback like it's like a chicken or the egg?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, is it because the guy's throwing over the ball, or is it because this guy's getting really wide open?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the interception Ben threw in that game really wasn't his fault.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was on the tipped pass.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So there is something to be said for, you know, like you said at the beginning of this episode, it's these are subjective awards.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: People didn't like Ben.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, really, like, you know, I'm really gonna blow up this whole episode at the end here, but we'll save that for the end.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: The Heart Trophy, which in hockey, they for some reason name every award after a person.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's like there's actually a cult Kalaramov award, like given to the best Russian player.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's an official NHL award or just I like that tradition in hockey.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you and I have talked before.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: We missed the when they even name the divisions after people.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Norris and Patrick and Smythe.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they should do that in football.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: It should have like the Bradshaw division, fist the Ravens and Browns off good, huh?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they could name it the um the Paul Brown division.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which would make it even more ironic that the Browns would never win in.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: It would make more sense if Paul Brown founded two of the teams in the division.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Go for it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, three of the teams in the division, Tim.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's true.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a good point.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Paul Brown found the Ravens, Browns, and it really should be the Paul Brown division.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, we'll save that for another day.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the Hart Trophy, which I don't know who Mr.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hart is.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any idea who Hart is?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it wasn't that 80 show that Hart with uh Stephanie Zimbalist and uh Robert Wagner.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, was that no sign of the uh chick who drowned off his boat, huh?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let's see, who is the Hart trophy named after?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's named after Dr.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: David A.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hart, a Montreal physician who donated the original trophy to the NHL in 1923.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: He was the father of Cecil Hart, a former coach and general manager of the Montreal Canadiens.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, that's interesting.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't know that.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's your there's another fun fact.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're just chock full of fun facts today, Tim.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Mario, he's uh won the Hart Trophy three times.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the first time was 1987 to 1998 and 1988.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Good gravy.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um season uh Lemieux won his first heart and first art rush trophy.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: The Art Ross trophy is you know for painting the best picture.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's the Bob Ross trophy.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Art Ross uh is the leading scorer, so that's not subjective.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: You either score the most points or you don't.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's probably you know a more well, Mario says it himself later that he only cares about that trophy because you can't vote on it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um he led the league with 168 points, which this is gonna be crazy when we go through the points and you see some of the other guys that won this uh heart trophy, and you see the points they have, like you're gonna see a difference between Mario's point totals and theirs, which I mean maybe there's a lot of reasons or not, but um here's an article.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is by um uh staggerald by our friend Paul Stagerwald, who's who's you know, our our local curmudgeon, you know, for many years.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't exactly no, it's John Staggerwald, not Paul.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was gotta get your staggerwall.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Paul's the penguin guy, John.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Guy just a curmudgeon, yes.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the lovable, lovable curmudgeon.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: He's a curmudgeon in all the right ways.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, MVP or MVP, statistics or not, M.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Mario is the best play hockey player in the world.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: He received the heart in Toronto.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Wayne Gretzky still will be surrounded by Stanley Cup champions next season.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Lemo Lemieux will be surrounded mostly by players who have never been to the playoffs, which is true in 1988.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Chances are pretty good that if Gretzky stays healthy next season, he'll win the Art Ross and Hart trophies.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: That won't make him better than Lemieux any more than Lemieux's two trophy make him better than Gretzky this week.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: They are both great players.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Lemieux is a little better, little bit greater.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: He has been for a while.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: That was a bold take in Thanksgiving.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Lemieux speaking, and here Mario talks some trash, which is kind of like very uncanadian of him.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: He was at a banquet at Bethel Park for, I guess, high school hockey or something, and was asked by one of the players to name the toughest NHL defenseman to skate around.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Lemieux paused, looked down for about 10 seconds, and then said, uh, there aren't any.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then he went on and politely named two or three of the league's top defenses.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and you know how like we always hear how like, oh, Gretzky's such a crap, classy guy, and what a great guy he is, Tim.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you've heard that that bunch of crap, right?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you would think, you know, being a classy person, you would go to the award since you're like the biggest draw in hockey at that point, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Gretzky skipped out on this because he wasn't gonna win the award.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Petty, petty, he's he went and uh where did he go?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh on vacation somewhere, right?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he went, um, oh geez.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Did not attend choosing to go on vacation.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where he went on vacation, but somewhere that wasn't Toronto.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, in my opinion, he's still the best player in the world, LeBieu said diplomatically.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: He had an injury this year and I took advantage of it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So Mary was not talking trash on Wayne at that point.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: So but you couldn't because Wayne Gretzky was like this, he was like the babe Ruth of hockey at that time.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and those two guys had a pretty good relationship, too.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like No, it wasn't like they hated each other or anything.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're Canadians.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Come on.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like Canadians don't hate anybody.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: They pretend to hate Americans right now, but they really don't.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, 92 to 93, um, age 27, he had 60 games, played 69 goals, 91 assists, 160 points.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is an interesting season.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you could definitely put this one in the top five since he only played 60 games and still won the I think he still won the scoring trophy this this year, yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was Palafante.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: He was chasing him.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of the more like I don't he was diagnosed January 12th, 1993, missed 23 games, came back for the final game of the season, and still won the scoring final.
• 37:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Palo Fain finished second.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even like close, 148.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: He still won by like 12 points.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was insane.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was it it's it's hard to believe all these years later that that actually happened.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's he played he only played two-thirds of a season, roughly.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and it's not just that like he played two-thirds of the season because he like had a knee injury or something, it's like he literally had cancer and was getting like radiation treatments the night he came back.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: So uh if he if they don't if it weren't for stupid David Vullock and the stupid Islanders, then then that would be the greatest season of not just Pittsburgh, like that would be I'm I'm not even kidding.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that would be and that's you know, again, like we've talked about that before.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's the shame of that Islander series is they they would have they would have won if they would have won that, they would have he would have played Gretzky in the finals.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that would have just been the absolute capper to his career.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but didn't happen.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: 1995, 1996.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: He actually takes the whole season uh out due to the illness, you know, the whole back and cancer thing.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what a slacker, huh?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh he returns and wins his third heart trophy and fifth score.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: He wins the scoring title again, Tim.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is he really is one of the greatest hockey players of all time.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can go back and forth on him and you know who um the guy from the Bruins and you know Avechkin obviously now is in the conversation, and you know, Gretzky, of course, and Ken Dryden probably.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: And Crosby's in the Crosby's in the well, we'll go over like yeah, Crosby's unbelievable, too.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean uh there are articles in a paper that he won't be back, and this will be his last season, and the Pens actually lose to the Panthers in the Eastern Conference final.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's never coming back after 1995-96 team.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Never that he comes back and plays like a bunch more.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and that would be a good season.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's another season we've never covered in depth, but that was stupid rats.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: I know, and that was another season where like, man, that that that felt like destiny that year again, and yeah, another bad playoff laws.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um next up is the aforementioned Sidney Crosby, and he has won it twice 2006 and 2007, and 2013 and 2014.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: For the 2006, 2007, um, the heart trophy, he won.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: He won, he played 79 games, he had 36 goals, 84 assists, and 120 points, which in other seasons would have finished him like in the Mario seasons, like what he would have finished like fifth or fourth, you know, in scoring.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um he he actually is the youngest player to win a scoring championship at 19, and that's for all of North American sports.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like and that's the that's the uh the other trophy, not the art cards.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, not the heart trophy.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, and and Sid's very like, I don't know, Sid's very reserved with the media.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he's very like I don't know, he doesn't talk a lot of trash or say anything.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if that's just because like he's been in the spotlight since he's been like 12.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: So he's become very media savvy and he's very like closed off.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't you know say much to the media.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um he was gracious, thank the NHL for inviting him back to Ottawa, because I think that was after they had made the they made no, they had not made the 2007.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they did make the Ottawa, yeah.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um 2013-2014, and this is um I I gotta put this up there with one of the great seasons of all time.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um he played 80 games, 36 goals, 68 points, 100 68 assists, 148, 104 points, a plus minus of 18 if you put any stock in that.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: He scored over a point a game.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had the uh Art Ross and the Heart trophy again, and he got a gold medal.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: He he had the he actually missed the award ceremony because he had to go pick up his gold medal.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and guess what?
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: In 2013, Tristan Jari is uh working out in the uh minor league, so we got that to look forward to.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh good, can't wait.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna be awesome.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's like there's like a picture of him with like all his freaking awards, like Sidney Crosby has like three different trophies.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's like good gravy.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have his gold medal on, though.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: I guess he has two gold medals now.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Which another another great season, like one of the greatest seasons, probably you know, in the history of sports.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, unbelievable.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, once again, would have been would have would have really been capped off had they not blown a three to nothing, three to one lead to the Rangers in the playoffs that year, but still a really great season.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they would have you know if he if he wins the Stanley Cup, he's probably gets a con Smythe, you know.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So anywho, um, which the Conn Smythe is the MVP of the playoffs.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why the I guess the NFL kind of does that too with the Super Bowl MVP, but they kind of have two different you know, MVP awards.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, yeah, the Super Bowl MVP is just for that game.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Conn Smythe is really for the whole entire playoff.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: But they normally give it to whoever's on the winning team.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, they don't usually give it to people that aren't on the Stanley Cup winning team.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Usually McDavid got it a couple years ago, even though he lost.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: But he always was so he had to give it to him sometime.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Yevgeny Malkin has won it one time.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Does anybody remember this at all?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: In 2011, 2012.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: He had 109 points, 50 goals, which was second in the NHL.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he he had a lot of power play points, 34.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: He had nine game winning goals.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: He actually beat out Steven Stamkos and Henry Lundquist, Henrik Lundquist.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a he had a way more point, way more first place votes in points.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they do like a point.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I guess if you get like first place votes, you get more points than the other people that don't get first place.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I I don't know.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's you know, he was also named the top Russian player, and that's that Kollomov a little.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can't say Valley Kollomov's name, I guess, today.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's the award given to the best Russian player, so which Ovechkin has won.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like a million times.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um, the great season by Gino, but kind of forgotten and under the radar, huh?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what I remember about that was when he won the Heart Trophy that year.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: There was some quote he made at the award ceremony that people were not happy about.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: It was something like this is the greatest moment of my life or greatest achievement of my career.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: I something to that effect, which was very benign, but that was the year that they lost to Philadelphia in the first round.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was a really ugly series.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: People had a bad taste in their mouth about that.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, yeah, that year.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and people, and people felt like they they used that quote to say, like, oh, the winning chair went more to him than than winning a championship.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it that was BS.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was just he was just happy to win the award.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think people were just and being polite to your hosts, you know, like that's such like a hockey player thing to do.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you should be should be polite to your hosts.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was one of those like manufactured sports talk radio controversies.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: But that's honestly, Steve, if it weren't for that, I don't know why I remember that part of it, but you're right.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember much else about him winning the MVP because I think because that season ended so disastrously.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of us just like.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Flurry kind of fell apart in that that series.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first time.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the whole team fell apart.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: They were like that that was they were was there was that when they were fighting Philadelphia the whole right.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's when that Game Steal and all that.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was it was but we did a whole episode about that.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, I I I won't try to delete it from my memory.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: So probably probably fair enough.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So uh moving on to baseball.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: So this will be the last of our sports here.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Since once again, I mean, if you want to talk about LeBron James and all his MVP awards, you'll have to tune into the Cleveland Sports Memories podcast.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's voted on by the 30 active memories of active members of the baseball writers.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um two writers from U City, submit ballots, ranking their top ten, the appointment awarded on a blah blah blah basis.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, who cares?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the highest total points after the postseason begins.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this is only for the regular season, or at least that's what it's supposed to be.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's normally uh announced after the conclusion of the World Series, and historically, pitchers rarely win the MVP because they get their own Cy Young award.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like how in hockey where like you know, like Lenquist probably wasn't gonna win the you know heart trophy because he has his Vesna.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: So although I mean he could like you know, you do win a scoring trophy and uh, you know, heart trophy.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of could be considered kind of the same thing, but and and it's happened before, and I think pitchers, like you said, pitchers have won the MVP before, but it's it has to be like a superhuman feat by the goaltender or the pitcher to win both.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think um the only guy like I can think of in like hockey history would be the the uh goalie from the Canadians and Patrick Waugh, maybe.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I I think I want to say that Hosek might have won the hard.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Hawkeye, he did win.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think he won it one year in like 96, 97 or a year after Mario won it.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think I think you're right.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think he won it in the in the 90s, so but like I said, you have to be like superhuman to be able to do that.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so going back in time to 1927, Tim, do you remember 1927?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: The Yankees were really good that year.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: They were.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this actually predates the modern award, but they did give out like a version of it, and uh Paul Wayner won the award in 1927 and he played in 155 games.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: He said, gee, Steve, that seems seven games short of 162, and that would be correct because they only played 155 back then, gosh darn it.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he did play in the World Series against the uh Yankees, the Fear 27 Yankees, in which the pirates got swept.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um his batting average, can you get guess his batting average, Tim?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's well without 350, 380.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, nobody hits like for average anymore.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like nobody's ever gonna hit 400 again, like Ted Williams.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um he had 131 runs batted in.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: 42 doubles, 18 triples.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty impressive.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nine he only had nine home runs, but 1927.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess they were hitting more home runs because Babe Ruth probably had like a bunch of home runs.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, but Forbesfield was very at that point, it was very cavernous, right?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's probably why he had so many triples.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, he was hitting yeah, balls really deep.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: They got caught up in the uh netting of the uh backstop, which they left in center field during the game.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh he he beat out two two guys that I I just love to say Frankie Fish and Rogers Hornsby.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um just for just for a fun fact, uh Lloyd Wayner, his younger brother, finished sixth in the voting tim.
• 49:16
  unknown: Woo!
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they had Big Poison because uh Paul Wayner was very he was like 6'3, 6'4, which in 1927 times was like, oh my god, he's huge.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and Lloyd Wayner was not so they had Big Poison and Little Poison.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: But Paul Wayner was a really great like pirate.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think people don't remember him as well, but used to, but yeah, that's because like you said, it was so long ago, but you're right, he's if you it's gonna be a hundred years next year since he won.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think he ever won a World Series with the Pirates, uh no.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was not on the 1925 team, I do believe.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, that's a shame then.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um in 1960, the Pirates have another NL MVP because they do an NL and an AL MVP, so you know it's a little easier because obviously, like if it was combined, like then, you know, Babe Ruth be like Babe Ruth every year back then, or Mickey Manil or one of the Yankees.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Dick Groat, the immortal Dick Groat.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: In before he was broadcasting Pit basketball games, he was playing baseball for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: More uh specifically, he was playing shortstop.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: He batted uh 325, which that's a respectable batting average.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Had 186 hits, uh 50, only 50 RBIs.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting the feeling he was more of a get-on bass guy.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean his slugging and OBP, he had 573 bats, 85 runs, 26 doubles, four triples, and two home runs.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um he led the National League with that batting average.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: He helped the Pirates win the 1960 World Series again the Yankees, and um he was named to the all-star team that year.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he did beat out two pretty good guys, Willie Mays and Don Hoke.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty stiff competition.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, even in 1960, Willie Mays was pretty good.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he was kind of younger, younger season.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um 1966, some guy named Roberto Clemeni.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: He played in a hundred yeah, I know, 150 154 games played, 317 for his batting average, um, 29 home runs.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was his career high, Tim.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: But he was more of a hits and RBI guy, 119 RBIs.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had an OBS of uh 896, um gold glove.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: He got a won a gold glove in right field.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a got his 2000th career hit in 1966, and he barely beat out and this is like like people really respected him because he beat out Sandy Koufax and Willie Mays.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, good gravy.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a tough choice between him, Koufax, and Mays.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Koufax was really good.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Koufax had a 1.73 ERA that season in 27 wins and didn't pitch on Saturday.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, hey, what are you gonna do?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: 27 wins, my goodness.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: And a 1.73 ERA.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for comparison, Mays had a batting average of 278, which oh boy, really slacking off, but he had 37 home runs.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: And Willie Mays was really good in the field, too.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Good old basket catch.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but um yeah, I mean that that's that's pretty stiff competition, huh, Tim?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we we go another 12 years, 1978.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some guy named Dave Parker, the Cobra.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: He paid played in 148 games.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: He had a batting average.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: Look at this, this guy hit for average, but Dave Parker was really good.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: A 334 average.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: He had um 30 home runs, 117 RBIs.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: He had 20 stolen bases, too, Tim.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: He went, geez.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh on base percentage, uh, yeah, his OPS was 979.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, really good.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: NL MVP, his batting champion.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: He had got a gold glove.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he ran he won his MVP award over in a landslide over Steve Garvey and Larry Boa.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Steve Garvey was more of a defensive player, if I remember correctly.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't he wasn't the greatest hitter in the world.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: And Larry Boa, the only thing I remember Larry Boa doing was coaching the Phillies.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say he was a manager later.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I remember him as.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that leads us to 1979, which is an odd year for the MVP.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: I get the feeling this was more of a lifetime achievement award than I don't know.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes to Willie Stargell, and um in 126 games, he had a batting average at 281, which is pretty good for Willie because he struck out a lot.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: He did have 32 home runs, 82 RBIs, 119 hits, 60 runs.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it really his postseason performance was clutch.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: 455 to win the MVP of the postseason.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, his World Series, he batted 400, three homers, four doubles, and seven RBIs.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: He set a World Series record with 25 total bases, and this is the only time there's been a tie.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the Keith Hernandez had a 311 average and 105 RBIs, but he only had 11 home runs.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he played for the Cardinals, not the Mets at that point.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the only time there was co-MVPs.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess Hernandez.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he's still getting um, you know, I'm hey, I'm Keith Hernandez.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you see?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Think he is.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm Keith Hernandez.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: I hear he needs a lot of help moving heavy furniture.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: He you know, he he still gets royalties from that episode, apparently.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: What's next, Steve?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: You can give him a ride to the airport?
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I won't do that.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's too far, Tim.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's interesting that with those stats that you just reeled off that those two guys were co-MVPs.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think Starjil, so so number one, it might have just been that that if you look across the board, there wasn't that much competition.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: But then I think also like Starjoil, um that not only, you know, and I know they vote before the playoffs, but but he was like the heart and soul of that team.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other thing to remember is he was at the very end of his career, and he had had a couple of down seasons before that.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: He had been injured a lot, and there was talk of like him being done completely.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so for him to come back and win the MVP at that stage of his career is a pretty remarkable performance.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, more importantly, lead the pirates to a World Series championship.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it goes back to like, like I said, it's such a subjective award.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what what what do you base your criteria on?
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just straight stats?
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Was he the best stats person, or was he if you take him off that like you always hear that argument?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you took Willie Starjaw off the 1979 Pirates, what do they do?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so you you get like like what what means more to you, I guess, in that season, and I guess that's what makes it like such great fodder for you know, this is really like more of a big sports talk radio talking point, you know, than anything.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we go another 11 years without an uh MVP there and some guy named Barry Bonds.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: And boy, Barry, uh Barry was pretty good, Tim.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um he played in 151 games, 301 average, 33 home runs, 140 RBIs, and 50 stolen bases, 52 stolen bases.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: He had 30 33 home runs and 52 stolen bases, Tim.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's insane.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: And 100 RBIs.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is like like you said, you know, if you're gonna rank the top five, like this has got to make the top five, right?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, it's an unbelievable.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I think so.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: That that 1990 again would have been a lot better if they would have made the World Series much less one.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: The Reds were really good that they were.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just saying it would have like it would have been an easier argument for top five had they had they done that.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he had he not like flamed out in the playoffs, too.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like had he like you know hit four home runs in the NLCS, but the Reds pitching just you know dominated too much.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's a different story, but he didn't do well.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't take away from the season he had.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that 90 season that 1990 season is I've said it before, like like that was my peak of baseball fandom.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I I probably watched you know every game, every highlight that summer of every team.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just I loved baseball, and he was he was the best player in baseball that year.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you want another fun fact?
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of fun facts in this episode, too.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: He uh he finished the head of Barry, Barry, uh Bobby Bonia, who's still getting paid by the Mets, and the uh and Daryl Strawberry.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: Daryl, Daryl.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, they're professionals.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: They can they can take it too.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a Simpsons episode.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like Daryl like cries, yeah.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but Bobby Bonia had an amazing season that year, too.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Bobby was a second place, not by much, 212.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see, he had 112 runs, 175 hits, 30, he had 32 home runs also, and 120 RPIs.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: He just had only he was slacking off.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: He only had four stolen bases.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Barry walked.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: Barry Bonds walked 93 times, too.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's like you you forget that too about Barry Bonds.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: Barry Bonds had really good plate discipline.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: He did not swing, swing at garbage.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, they were they were batting him.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: That was the year that they, I think they did he lead off?
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, they were batting him fifth that year.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't remember if that was the year that they moved him from lead off to fifth.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember he used to lead off, yeah.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was such a good base dealer.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like they used to, yeah.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but but that's why that's why.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: But he's hit so many home runs, like like you almost won him in fifth to drive-in runs, you know.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's why he had 114 RBIs that year because he was batting behind Vance Lake and Bonilla.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that really that really that's where Well, you figure Bone, too, they're gonna start pitching to Bonea because they don't wanna they don't wanna, you know, they don't want to put a guy on base with Barry Bonds up the bat.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um 92.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh boy, he really slacks off, Tim.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: He only has 34 home runs, a batting.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: He wins the MVP in 92, also.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um 311 average, um, 39 stolen bases.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, really slacking off, Tim.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: He makes the 30-30 club again.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Good gravy, an OBS of 1.080.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's like that's unreal.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um National League MVP wins his third consecutive gold slug and gold glove and silver slugger.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a great fielding percentage.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we always like he was a really good fielder, too.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he recorded 127 walks, including 32 intentional.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: So people just like stop pitching to him, basically, in this season.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he wins the award in a landslide over Terry Pendleton and Gary Sheffield, who they were both had probably really good seasons.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't look up their stats.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Andy Van Slick finished fourth.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yay!
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean Barry Bonds was really good.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's is he in the Hall of Fame yet?
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: Barry Bonds now.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: They're keeping him out of the house.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because of the I I he wasn't doing steroids back then, and when he did steroids, they weren't against the rules.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: So then you better not vote for, you know, like I said, Pooh's because Booh's used an illegal bat for half his career.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: We we we could do a whole episode that's similar to this, Steve, on just Hall of Fame and who's in and who's out, because it's it's also subjective.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: Subjective.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just like I don't get it.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're gonna if you're gonna not let Barry Bonds in because you think he cheated or he cheated the game, even though it was against the rules, then okay, kick out our pool halls can't be in.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, all the guys that threw spitballs back in the 20s, kick those guys out.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, give me a break.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's it's uh I I don't I'm not even gonna give it go down that rabbit hole because I I will go off on a 10-minute rant on the the sanctimonious baseball media people.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it they're getting just as bad in the NFL, you know.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, yeah, with Belichick and all that.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: So sanctimonious media people in general, like I said, I could go on an easy rant, but but you mentioning Terry Pendleton reminded me that you know Barry Bonds very easily could have won the MVP in between those two seasons, too, 91.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_02: They gave it to Pendleton that year.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: Bonds Terry Pendleton was really good.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: He he was, and I think honestly, he won it that year because the Braves were a last place team, this garbage team for like a decade.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and then they finished in first, and he was like the leader of that team.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think so so it wasn't it wasn't like a farce.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: He definitely like deserved it, but I I I really think Bonds could have easily won it three years in a row.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I that could he's such a he's not a lovable character.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's exactly right, and I'm sure that played into it.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I know people, no, no, no, it didn't, but I'm sure, I'm sure that it did.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: So speaking of people that are kind of very lovable, that would be 2013 Mr.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew McCutcheon.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um 157 games played, 317 batting average, 185 hits, 21 home runs, 84 RBIs, 27 stolen bases.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's see, his on base was okay.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it not not, you know, it's a solid MVP season.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but then you look at like what Barry Bonds did, and you're like, oh my goodness, this like kind of pales in comparison.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, his third consecutive All-Star team, um uh uh recorded uh 80, 982 fielding percentage.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: He had 10 outfield assists, um, started all 157 games, leading the pirates the first postseason.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's more of it too.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: He led the pirates to the first postseason appearance in 21 years.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: He was there to break the streak.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't know, Tim.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's a solid award, but it's kind of like boy, that Barry Bonds, that that one where he hit in 1990, where he hit 33 home runs and had 50 stolen bases and 114 RBIs.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: That that's gotta be up there with the Sid and Terry Bradshaw years, right?
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I agree.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: The the the um McCutlen MVP is like more comparable to like what you said about Dick Road.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was like it was a good team and he had a solid season on a good team that was around him and definitely deserving of the award.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not something that's gonna stick out as like one of the all-time greatest seasons ever.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I kind of like what's the greatest MVP season in Pittsburgh sports history.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is it Terry Bradshaw 1978?
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the Sidney Crosby the Olympic gold medal 2013-2014 season?
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is it that Barry Bond season and good gravy?
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: 33 home runs and 50 52 stolen bases in 1990.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's really impressive.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I I maybe Terry just because he won a championship.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's the only one of those people.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: And Mario's, don't forget Mario's season, only playing 60 games and scoring all those points.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess a lot of all of them really, the only guy to win a championship and win the MVP in the same season is Terry, right?
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Starjil.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: Starjil, yeah, but I don't I mean, I think Terry's stats were better than Starjil's in the regular season.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I'd say Bradshaw because of what you said winning the the championship.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I mean, Crosby, nobody remembers the 2014 Penguins as a great team.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, and and and Bonds, like we said, you know, did not do well in the postseason.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I you have to give it to Bradshaw because it was the regular season MVP and the postseason MVP.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he played well in both.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: And he played well in both.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_02: Stargle, I would put I honestly I'd put Stargle second just because Because he did so well in the postseason, yeah.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: And but like you said, in the regular season, he it wasn't like he was co MVP.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like Keith Hernandez quite probably should have won it, but don't tell Keith Hernandez that it'll help me move.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm going to this is kind of like You know, the what if.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we've done like alternate history on this podcast before.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the lost MVPs, Tim.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: The lost MVPs.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: These will be Super Bowl losers and you know, people that maybe should have gotten MVP.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: The last guy definitely got ripped off.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: The other two, you know, deservably so.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um Super Bowl 30, Tim.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I think the MVP of this game would have been Neil O'Donnell if he does not throw to Larry Brown, which the only problem with him completing classes to Larry Brown was he played for the Cowboys.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: If he doesn't throw those two interceptions and he even if he doesn't, if he let's say he just only throws one touchdown and they drive down the the field and kick field goals or like Ben Morris rushes in for like one yard rushing, I think Neil wins the Super Bowl MVP.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_00: He was 28 for 49 at 239 passing yards, the one touchdown, the three interceptions.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't throw two of those interceptions.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: He probably is Super Bowl MVP, and the Jets pay him even more money.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's a good point.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: And he would have he would have not had 239 yards passing.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: He would have had like closer to 300 because if he would have driven him down the field for the game-winning touchdown, I I agree.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was a because that's what kind of happened in the championship game.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: He drives him down there and then they hand off to like Bam Morris and jumps in the end zone.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that would have been the kind of the culmination of his career where he just kind of was like getting progressively better and better and then gets him into the Super Bowl and then wins the Super Bowl.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if he stays in Pittsburgh if he wins the Super Bowl.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was kind of tired of Pittsburgh, like after that AFC championship game.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: That that'd be another good what-if conversation.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think you could make an argument that he stays, but maybe not.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he he he definitely wanted to make sure he got paid, and the Steelers were not going to pay him top dollar.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and honestly, after losing the Super Bowl, I don't know that.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: He could have stayed, yeah.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it so you you're right.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: Winning winning that game would have made a difference.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or or Steve, even losing but not like being the problem, yeah.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like losing, but like it's like an incomplete pass.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: Another guy that I feel like kind of gets like ripped off, and once again, I think this is off the field.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the Barry Bonds syndrome.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like people don't like him because of how he acted off the field.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: Although he's not he's changed his ways, and that would be Ben Rothelsberger.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think in Super Bowl 45, if he doesn't throw that interception to um who's it, Nick Collins early in the game, and it kind of really wasn't completely his fault.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you watch the replay, his hand gets hit.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if he doesn't do that, and then he at the end, he's like like they have a chance to drive down the field, but he kind of throws a high pass on fourth down to Mike Wallace, who's like double covered.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ben was 25 of 40, 263 yards.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: He had two touchdowns passing, but two interceptions and a passer rating 77.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he had a better game than um Neil for sure.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he wasn't the reason they lost per se.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was that obviously the fumble.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody always blames Rashad Benderhall for the fumble.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but that was a forced era.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_00: The Green Bay played better defense than the Steelers did that game, and that that's really what made the difference.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think he wins the if if he drives, let's say Ben pulls another Super Bowl 43, drives him down, they score the game-winning touchdown, even on a rushing touchdown.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think Ben wins finally wins his MVP, or maybe not because this was after all the scandal, wasn't it?
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: That was the year of all that.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a knowledgeable year.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he probably doesn't win the MVP that year, even then.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I don't know who else they would have given it to because there wasn't anybody else on the stage.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_02: There wasn't a Heinz Ward or San Antonio Holmes or Linzwan kind of performance in that game.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a bunch of different guys.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think Antoine Randall even had a well, the two touchdowns was one to Heinz Ward, one was to Mike Wallace.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they give it to Mike Wallace and he sits down and interviews, you know, I don't know, Brezhnev or something.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think Randall had like a two-point conversion or something.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Point just being that it was it was it that was a lot more spread around in that game.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right, I think if he drives down the field, he he potentially wins MVP.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um but but like you said, it was it was too many mistakes, the men in hall fumble, the the the pick six, like you said, even though his hand got hit.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and then the um just Aaron Rodgers was the we we did an episode about that season and we talked about how the the secondary that year, every time they played and they were the number one defense in the league, but when they they played Drew Brees that year, they got they got smoked.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_02: They played Brady that year, they got smoked.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_02: And they played Aaron Rodgers in the Super Bowl and they got smoked.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: They they they had the luxury of facing Flacco, who was not quite super elite at that point, and um uh Sanchez in the championship game.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they didn't have to play Peyton Manning or Tom Brady in the playoffs, and and they almost were one game away from playing Jay Cutler in the Super Bowl.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, they they they that was the weakness that year was a secondary, and they couldn't they couldn't handle elite quarterbacks, and so um anyway, you're right.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think that that's a shame.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And Ben did have a chance to to after even after as bad as that game went, Ben actually did have a chance at the end to to put together another Super Bowl 43 like drive, and he like you said, he didn't do it.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So what year was that?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: 2010.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_00: 2010.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that year, yeah.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: All right, moving on to the guy that really probably has the biggest what if of all time, and this is like really kind of like puts an exclamation point on the whole MVP thing.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: In 1988, 89, Mary Lemieux has 85 goals and 199 points.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: 199 points.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Tim, a hundred and ninety.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what the record all time for points is in a season?
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is 215 by Wayne Gretzky in 1985-86.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those and he wins the scoring total over Wayne Gretzky and all 31 points were goals by 31 points that he won over.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_00: 199 points just for his fifth all-time in NHL history, by the way.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And Mario loses to Mr.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wayne Gretzky, who had gotten traded.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've ever watched, like, you know, I don't know if you I used to get NHL network, but you have like a whole sad story on oh, Wayne Gretzky got traded to LA and everybody was so sad about it.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: But like Gretzky didn't have to leave, he could have signed a hometown discount like Sidney Crosby and stayed in Edmonton if it really was that important to him.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: But Wayne made sure he got paid.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he went to LA, made a bunch of money.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_00: They never won a Stanley Cup.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think Gretzky won another Stanley Cup after he left Edmonton, did he?
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, they they were in the finals that one year against Montreal, but they lost.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh Mario doesn't understand the NHL, neither do I, and is worried that it will cost him money.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like he literally says, uh nothing in this league makes sense, Lemieux said.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have no comment.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: The facts are there.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great quote.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing in this league makes sense, and it's still true to this day.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: He got 40 out of the 63 first plate votes.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Lemieux received 18, Iserman five.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Gretzky had won eight MVP awards, I think.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_00: In was that no, the that was in a row at that point.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Was that in a row or no?
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, because Lemieux had won that, had broken it up, but then yeah, they gave it back to him.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So so the the argument at times, Steve, was was he he went to LA, brought hockey to the West Coast, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Increased the popular like it it's the MVP award just isn't about um who the best player was.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's about who did the most for the sport and and who really like what was the best story and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and the ironic thing about that line of logic is that if you fast forward to the year 2001, when Mario literally came back from retirement halfway through the season, he didn't even play the first two months of the season, and then like by far led the league in scoring after he came back, right?
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, which like Sports Illustrated never put hockey on the cover back then, and that was when that mattered.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like the cover of Sports Illustrated was a big deal.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and so wasn't that the best thing for the league that year?
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't that grow the sport more than anything?
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_02: But they gave the MVP award that year to Joe Sakick, who who, by the way, really deserved it.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_02: But you you see what I'm saying?
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like you use the use the logic to say Mario doesn't Mario can't win MVP because of this, but then when the logic favors Mario, you you say, well, no, we gotta give it to the best player.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing in the league makes sense.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's inconsistent, and that's what happens when you have subjective awards.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: You you you lend yourself to inconsistent decisions.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I put absolutely no stock in MVP awards, and I just spent an hour of my life talking about them.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't care.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I I I really don't give a crap.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just really just media talk show fodder.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it is.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh my god, it's the the season's over, we have nothing to talk about.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, let's make a controversial.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm surprised like they don't make more controversial decisions just to so they can have hot takes or or make the right decision, but somebody like decides to be a contrarian and just like bring up somebody, you know, well, this person I think should be MVP, and I I I I I just like I just don't care.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I so don't care about these awards that you know, I just yeah it's meaningless.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's getting to be that way with the Hall of Fame because like when you don't let people in just because we think they spied on people or you know, we just don't like the fact that they were mean to me when I was a writer and now it's payback time, then then I I I don't like what credibility, like your award has no meaning, no credibility.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_00: If it just becomes like a participation trophy, what what really value in it is, and you've devalued your award, and you know that that's the worst thing that can happen in sports is people stop caring.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I I I 99.9% agree with you.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't think it's totally meaningless, because I think it does denote that somebody had a great season, and I think that that it means something.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It does if it's if there's credibility, but when you pull stuff like this, right, Tim, there's no credibility to it.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're just giving it to I like Wayne Gretzky and Mario will be here longer and Wayne, yo, you know, I don't know.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_00: We just like Wayne and he didn't win it last year.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_02: That story should be told for the rest of the time because the people that voted on that the it's it's embarrassing.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's beyond embarrassing.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's not even it's not even embarrassing.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's corrupt.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's a farce.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Forty, forty of sixty-three first place votes to the guy who trailed Mario by 31 points and 31 goals.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you could say, well, that's why they have the you know the Art Ross.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's for the goal scorer, not the MVP.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that's yes, yes, Steve.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_02: If if it was if it was four goals, that makes sense.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like if Kretsky's behind by four goals, okay, I get it.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, then then you have an argument.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_02: 31.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and and the penguins were really good that year.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_02: They made the second round of the playoffs.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't like you can use the argument, well, he was on a bad team, and and it's it's you're giving it to the guy that you know is is is the the most valuable on his team.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_02: The penguins would have been nowhere without Mario that year.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the quote Lil Mew said, failing to win the heart will cost him quite a bit of money.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So so it costs Mario money.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know why.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about it.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a good player, you're gonna get what you're gonna get.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I guess they could use it as leverage.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, whatever.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, but if you voted us as an MVP podcast, I would definitely accept it because it would be totally legit.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_00: It would mean something.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ratings, ratings on the podcast service, those do mean something, folks.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_02: So please give us a five-star rating if you feel so inclined to do so.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like as always, we appreciate you uh tuning in and um yeah, check us out on Facebook.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Tim has a lot of great stuff.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_00: He puts up there all the time.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: What's the wow I can choose?
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I appreciate everything uh Tim does too.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll appreciate everybody looking in all these years.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I podcast.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm going to Disney Last.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_03: I just crashed my car again, now I'm going to Disneyland I just robbed a grocery store, I'm going to display.