Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 11-13) (8/27/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 11-13) (8/27/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where we left off with Tova Noel and her discussion
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with Congress. Question, okay, who found Mr. Epstein in his cell? Answer, Thomas. Question, Thomas.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Can you walk us through, step by step, the events
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: unfolding of discovering Mr. Epstein in the cell? Answer, the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: breakfast came up. It was time to feed breakfast. Thomas
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: said that he'll do it because, you know, he was
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: sleeping all night. I opened the grill. Epstein is the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: first cell. So we started there. Thomas, I'm standing out
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: on the grill. Thomas goes in the cell block, knocks
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: on the door, doesn't get an answer because he would
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: have to come to the door to receive the tray.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: He knocks again. He doesn't get an answer. He opens
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the door. When he opens the door, he yelled, pass
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: me a cutter. So I hit my body alarm and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I go back down the stairs to go look for
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: a cutter. When you hit the body alarm, the whole
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: building's coming. Everybody's coming. When I went back up to
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: the stairs, he had already ripped because you hear ripping
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: and he was doing CPR. Question, Officer Thomas was doing CPR? Answer, correct.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Question on Mr. Epstein? Answer, correct. Question, is that standard protocol? Answer, no. Question,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: why do you think he started administering CPR? Answer, the
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: standard protocol is he's not supposed to open the door. Question,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: so he decided to open the door. Answer, correct. Question,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: did he see Mr. Epstein? What did he see when
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: he looked in? Answer, oh, I don't know. We never
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: spoke about the incident or after the incident, so I
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: don't know what he's seen. And from where I'm standing,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I can't see. Question, at what point did you join him?
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: After he hit the body alarm or before then? Answer,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: after I hit the body alarm, I go downstairs to
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: look for the cutter and then I came back upstairs
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: and I could see like his feet. Because by this time,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: he has them on the floor. I could see his feet,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: but I'm still outside the grill. Foy, whose feet? Noel,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein's feet. Question, Epstein's feet on the ground? Answer, correct. Question,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: did you ever go into the cell? Answer, no. Question,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: did you stand outside and wait for help? Answer, yeah.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And help came really fast. Question, how fast would you say? Answer,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: like five minutes. Question, okay. And is Officer Thomas standing
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: in the cell at that point? Answer, he's on the
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: floor with him doing CPR. Question, the entire five minutes. Answer, correct. Question,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: did Mr. Epstein respond to the CPR at all? Answer,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question, by Mr. Grant. You said that
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: help arrived in about five minutes. Do you know who
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: came as part of the help? Noel, I don't remember
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: everybody but Lieutenant Jean and a whole bunch of other people,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: but I can't remember exactly who. Grant, approximately how many
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: people came? Noelle, maybe like five. Grant, thank you. Now
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: back to Miss Firebend. Question, at no point during those
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: events transpiring, did you see inside the cell? Answer, yeah, no. Question, okay.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: So just to be clear, you didn't see anything inside
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: that cell that could have been out of place? Answer, no. Question,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: no bedding or linens? Answer, no. Question, did you ever
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: see Mr. Epstein's body? Answer, when they were bringing him
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: out on the stretcher? Question, how soon after help arrived
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: were they bringing him out on the stretcher? Answer, maybe
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: 10 minutes. Question, you said he was doing CPR. If
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: either one of you discovers an inmate that requires medical attention,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: was there any specific procedure that you had to follow? Answer,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: as far as the shoe goes, I know that you're
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: not supposed to enter a cell alone. You're supposed to
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: like call for help and wait for help and then
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: you can start administering. But as far as that, I
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: don't know. Question, do you know why the procedure is
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: that way? Answer, no, I do not know. Question, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: you said you never spoke to Mr. Thomas. Afterward? Answer, no. Question,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: so you don't know why he would have gone in
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: by himself? Answer, correct. Question, after Mr. Epstein's body was
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: removed from the cell? Well, he was pronounced dead at 6.39 a.m.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: in the morning. Did you? What did you do after that? Answer, next,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I was in the shoe for a while because everybody
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: was gone. And I was calling to ask, where's my relief?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Because remember, by this time now, it's time for me
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: to leave. Question, sure. Answer, psychologist came upstairs and asked,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: did I need to speak to anyone? I said, no.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I went downstairs after. I don't remember who relieved me,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: to be honest. And then I went downstairs and the
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: lieutenant asked me what happened. But I spoke to my
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: union rep and they told me not to say anything.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: And I left. Question, who was your union rep? Answer,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I can't even think of his name. And I see
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: him in front of me. I can't. He works in
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: R & D. I'm having a blank. Foy, Tyrone, Noel, uh-huh. Question.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: That's okay. Was your union rep at MCC when you
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: were talking to him about this? Answer. Yes. Question. And
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: why would he say not to talk about it? Answer.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I don't, I guess, because the lieutenant was asking me.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: And that's not like protocol. If you want to question
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: me like the union rep should be there. Question, did
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: you leave your shift at the normal time at 8 a.m.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: in the morning? Answer, I think it was after 8 a.m.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: because there was a lot going on. Question, how long
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: after 8 do you think? Answer, maybe a half an hour. Question, okay.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Were you ever told anything before you were or before
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: you left? Answer, no. Question, was that your last ever
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: shift at MCC? Answer, correct. Question, how soon after your
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: last shift, so August 10th, Did you answer questions in
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: an interview by MCC about what happened that day? Mr. Foy,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: that was even after the OIG, right? Noel, I'm thinking. Foy,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: so it was more than two years. Noel, yeah, it
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: was a long time ago for sure. Firebend, about how long?
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: If you had to guess, estimate. Mr. Foy, I'd say
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: more than two years because it was after OIG. Noel,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: like about two years. Foy, more than two years. Fairbend, uh, question.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I know we discussed whether or that Officer Thomas was
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: sleeping while on midnight to 8 a.m. shift, correct? Answer, correct. Question,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: how long was he sleeping for? Answer, so it varies,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: because he had went upstairs at one point to 10 south.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: So I can't really say, like, how long he was sleeping.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Pretty much for, like, the duration of the shift. But
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: at one point, he left, and he went upstairs to
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: 10 south. And then he came back, and he went
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: back to sleep. Question, okay. And Officer Bonhami, on the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: shift before that you said, I think you said he
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: was sleeping, is that right? Answer, correct. Question, about how
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: long was he sleeping for? Answer, so he went to
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: sleep towards the last hour, or maybe the like last
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: two hours of his shift. Question, and that was around
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the time that you had done your 10 p.m. count? Answer, correct. Question,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: And then we mentioned the 1038 in the video you
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: were walking off. Was Officer Bonhami asleep at that time? Answer,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: he was. Question, okay. And the 1039. When we discussed
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: the flash of orange in the video camera, he would
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: have been asleep then as well? Answer, correct. Question, okay,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: thank you. Were you at any point sleeping on your
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: shift between 4 p.m. before, excuse me, on the night
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: of August 9th or the morning of August 10th? Answer, no. Question, no.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: I'd like to ask a few more questions about the payments.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: JP Morgan Chase had reported that you received a total
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: of 12 suspicious cash deposits beginning in April of 2018.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: These were included in the most recent release of the
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Epstein Files Transparency Act, and there's been lots of reporting
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: about them since then. JP Morgan's suspicious activity report in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the Epstein Files included the $ 5, 000 cash deposit that we
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: discussed earlier in the first hour. but it also included
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: 11 deposits from an unknown sender. Cash deposits under $ 10, 000
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: usually are not flagged as suspicious. However, they flagged all
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: of these deposits. Are you familiar with these 12 suspicious
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: deposits that they flagged? Answer, so Chase never informed me
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: of anything suspicious on my account. When you say unknown sender,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: nobody deposits money in my account. I do. So I
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: don't know who or what would have been an unknown sender. Question,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: so no one else had access to your JPMorgan account? Answer, correct. Question,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: just you? Answer, me, correct. Question, there was also bank
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: records from the DOJ that show that there were seven
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: cash deposits totaling $ 11, 880 that began in December of 2018.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Was that also from you distributing the cash deposits? Answer, correct. Question, okay,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: is your testimony today that these cash deposits that were
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: flagged by JPMorgan were sent to you by yourself within
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: your own account? Answer, not sent. I make the deposit. Question, deposited. Answer, uh-huh. Question,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and that none of these cash deposits had anything to
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: do with Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell. Answer, correct. Question,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: and we discussed that during the first hour, as far
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: that you knew about Mr. Epstein when he was incarcerated.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: It seemed at some point you learned that he was
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: a wealthy individual. Is that right? Answer, I mean, I
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: knew he was high profile. Question, would it be safe
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: to assume that your co-workers at MCC would have known
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: that he was a wealthy individual? Answer, I don't know. Question,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: so my question is, are you aware of Mr. Epstein
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: paying anyone else that was employed by MCC? Answer, no,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not aware of that. Foy, anyone else? Emmer, paying
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: any employee at MCC for anything? Noel, no. Emmer, you
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that there was medication that Mr. Epstein had
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: in his cell that you didn't know or that how
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: he would have had access to it. Is that correct?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Is it possible that an employee at MCC May have
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: been working with Mr. Epstein to bring medication to him. Answer,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know who that would be. Question, okay. I
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: know we've mentioned this before, but for the record, were
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: there any security cameras in the shoe? Answer, yes. Question,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: how many security cameras? Answer, that I don't know how many. Question, okay.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Where do you know there would be? Answer, on the tiers. Question,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: on the upper or lower tiers? Answer, there's one on
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the upper, and I'm not sure. If there's one on
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: every tier... but on the tier center. Question, when you
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: were working at your station, were you able to see
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: the camera footage from that station? Answer, like, see where
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the camera is? Question, typically, well, maybe not typically, but
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: were you able to see a screen that showed video surveillance? Answer, no. Question,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: would you ever see the security camera footage? Answer, never. Question,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: was that handled by other people? Answer, I don't know
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: who handled it. Question, MCC staff? I don't know. Question.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: So you don't know whether MCC hired outside parties to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: install or manage? Answer. Yeah, I don't know how that works. Question. Okay.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Do you know how often the MCC upgraded their security
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: camera systems? Answer. I don't know. Question. Do you know
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: whether the cameras would often fail or malfunction? Answer. That
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question. During your time in the SHU,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the SHU, did you ever have problems with the security
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: cameras not working? Answer. No. Question, did you ever know
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: about the security camera that's not working? No conversations, other
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: people that you would have had? Answer, no. Question, have
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: you ever handled anything relating to security camera footage? Answer, no. Question, okay.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up right here.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of of the Epstein Chronicles.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to pick up where we
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: left off with Tova Noel and her chat with Congress. Question.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I'm going to reference the DOJ OIG report once more.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: It said that the MCC security cameras in the shoe
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: failed to record any live footage starting on July 29th, 2019,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: and that this malfunction was not discovered by MCC staff
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: until August 8th, 2019. MCC staff, however, then failed to
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: take any action to fix this malfunction. Therefore, the security
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: cameras did not record anything on August 9th or August 10th,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the day of Mr. Epstein's death. It did, however, continue
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: to broadcast live feed. It also says, the report, that
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: MCC staff obtained the replacement hard drives necessary to repair
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the security camera on August 9th, but did not complete
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the repairs to restore recording functionality. I know that you
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: mentioned this, but did you know that the security cameras
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: were not working? Answer, no. Question, and you don't know
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: who was in charge of making sure that the security
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: camera system was repaired? Answer, no. Question, did you ever
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: speak with anyone about this failure on August 9th or
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: August 10th? Answer, no. Because I wasn't aware that it
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't working. Question, okay. Do you have any reason to
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: believe MCC staff purposefully or intentionally did not repair the
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: cameras prior to or at the time of Epstein's death? Answer,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I don't have any reason to believe, but I don't know. Question,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: are you aware that the FBI conducted interviews on August
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: 28th and 2019 of inmates that were present the night
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of Epstein's death? Answer, no. Question, are you aware of
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: any allegations that were made by any shoe inmates around
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that night? Answer, no. Question, did you ever hear that
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: one inmate that was in the shoe, he recounted a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: series of remarks, that he heard the morning of Mr.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Epstein's death? Answer, no. Question, this inmate recalls hearing the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: officer shout, breathe, breathe, and then he allegedly heard an
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: officer say, dude, you killed that dude. Have you ever
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: heard anything like that? Answer, no. Question, there's also a quote,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: that he said he heard the female guard reply with, quote,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: if he's dead, we're going to cover it up, and
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: he's going to have an alibi, my officers. The inmate
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: also said that the entire wing of the prison overheard
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: these remarks, and after learning that Mr. Epstein had died,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the inmates were saying, Miss Noel, kill Jeffrey. Answer, never
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: heard any of that. Question, did you ever hear any
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: inmates make any accusation about Mr. Epstein's death? Answer, no. Question,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: What's your response? What do you think of these allegations?
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Answer of that? Question? Yes. Answer? I mean, I'm not
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: aware of anything like that being said, but they may
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: say anything. Question? Thank you. Answer? You're welcome. Question? We
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: discussed earlier that you altered the counts and rounds on
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the reports. Were you ever criminally charged with falsifying those
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: prison records? Answer? No. Foy? Altered accounts? What do you
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: mean altered? Firebrand? Firebend, excuse me, that you signed off,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: that you had completed them, when in fact you had
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: not completed them. Foy, okay. Noel, yeah, no. Question, saying
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: that more counts and rounds were done than were actually done. Noel, no. Question,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: were you ever, I'm sorry, I'm going to back up,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: were you ever criminally charged with falsifying BOP records? Answer, Noel, no. Mr. Foy,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: yes you were. You were criminally charged. Noel, okay. Foy, right,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: I mean... Question, were charges brought against you? Answer, yes. Question,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: that's what she's asking. Noel, okay, yes. So how can
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: you believe that Tova Noel is telling the truth when
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: she can't even get the basics right? And this is
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the same thing we've seen time and time again with
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: people that have come before Congress to talk about the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: night Epstein died. So if you want to believe the narrative,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: go for it. My goal is to provide you with
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: enough information from these official sources so that you can
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: come to your decision with as much information available to
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: you as possible. Question. Charges were brought against you for? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: How many counts? Foy. We don't remember. Question. Okay. And
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: what was the result of those charges being brought against you? Answer. Noel. Foy. Dismissed. Noel. Dismissed. Question,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: how come it was dismissed? Foy asked the government. They're
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: the ones who dismissed it. Noel, I read in the report.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Discussion off record. Noel comes back. So there was a
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Noel prosecution agreement to dismiss it. And as a result
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: of that, it got dismissed. Question, so just to be
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: clear for the record, you were criminally charged with falsifying
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: BOP records. And that case, those charges were dismissed, correct? Answer, correct. Question,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: thank you. I think we're wrapping up one hour's worth
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: of questions, but I have just one final question for you.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that we have not covered or touched
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: on today that you would like to provide the committee
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: in the furtherance of its investigation into the crimes of
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell? Answer, no. Fair bend. I think we
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: can go off the record. Back on. Question, Ms. Noel,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: just a few more questions for you, and then we'll
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: get you on your way. Answer, thank you. Question, when
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: we left off, we were working through a timeline of
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the night of the 9th. The morning of the 10th.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: It sounds, I think, pretty clear, but just confirming for us,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: when we talk about counts from 12 a.m. to 3 a.m.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and 5 a.m. counts, those did not occur, is that right? Answer, correct. Question,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: and it sounded from the IG report, like maybe around
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: the time of 12 a.m. count or somewhere in that window,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: there was communication with control about adjusting the numbers. You
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: kind of mentioned this earlier, 73 or 72. What's your
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: recollection of that mix-up? Answer, to the best of my recollection,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: the count couldn't clear because the number was off, and
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I think it had something to do with that inmate
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that was not returning. So control basically told me what
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the number was supposed to be. Question, got it. Were
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: you the one that talked to control? Answer, I honestly
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: don't remember. Could have been. Question, all right, great. Noel,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: so there was no count conducted in the shoe, but
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: upstairs on 10 south, I did count with Adams. Question,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I've got that as well, and I'll get to that
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: in the timeline, thank you. As far as rounds, maybe
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: just between your arrival at 4 p.m. and your 10 p.m. count,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: did any rounds occur in that period? Answer, a few
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: of them. As far as I can remember, I don't know. Question,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: any recollection of around what time or around how many
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: of your just not sure? Answer, not sure. Question, okay.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: And then after 10 or 10.30, whenever that counting occurred, through,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: let's say, delivering breakfast. Were the rounds that occurred then?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Answer no. Question, there was a sign, a physical sign
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: described in the IG report. It sounds like it was
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: posted to the SHU officer, one of these SHU officer computers.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: And the sign said, I'll just read it. It's one sentence,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: mandatory rounds must be conducted every 30 minutes on Epstein,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: as per God. And it sounded like at least a day,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and an evening watch officer agreed that the sign was
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: on the computer on that day and night do you
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: have any recollection of ever seeing that answer i don't
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: recall the sign question even if it wasn't that night
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: ever seeing that sign answer sign no question it would
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: be tough to answer but do you have any sense
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: on what the as per god could be referenced to Answer, no. Question,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you talked earlier about the MCC way. Could I just
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: ask your opinion? It sounds like a lot of the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: issues we described today were widespread. Lack of training, understaffed, overtime.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: What's your perspective? Do you think that the MCC was
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: well run from a management point of view? Answer, no. Question,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: what's your perspective on the extent to which it was
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: either facing challenges or was poorly run or needed to
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: be fixed in certain ways? Answer, I later learned a
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: lot of things that wasn't working. Like for example, the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: camera system that would have been like an upper management thing.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: But as far as the shortages, it kind of makes
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: it hard because sometimes management have less to work with.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: And when you have less to work with, you're doing
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: things that's not supposed to be done because sometimes you
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: have one staff member work in two units. You can't
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: be in two places at one time, but there's just
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: no manpower. And as far as what I learned also
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: is this has been an ongoing issue And the union
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: has asked for help or asked for more staff, but
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: they don't get it. So I don't know that it
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: was poorly ran because they just didn't have the people
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: that to do the job. Question. Thank you. I think
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: you said in your statement with the IG, and I
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: think a moment ago that you went up to 10
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: South to help the guard do his or her account.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Question counts. Maybe both three and five. Is that correct? Answer. Correct. Question.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Was that ordinary in your experience? Answer. Yes. Question, and
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: why would that be? Answer, because shortages again, there's one
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: officer up there. So usually because there is two in
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the shoe, somebody will cross count with the 10 South officer. Question,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: would it have been normal for there to be one
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: officer up in 10 South? Or was that an understaffing
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: problem as well? Was that supposed to be two officers
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: in 10 South? Answer, I know it's supposed to be
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: two in 10 South. Question, but it was one that night. Answer,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: it was one all the time. Question, got it. Did
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that officer in 10 South come ask you for help
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: doing his or her? I don't know counts. Answer, no. Question,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: how did you end up doing it that you were
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: helping the officer do the counts? Question, because that's just,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I know that somebody from 9 South goes up to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: 10 South to count. Question, presumably, ordinarily, somebody in the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: shoe is also that midnight count and these other officers
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: around the same time. Answer, correct. Question, yes. What ended
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: up being the difference as to why one was happening
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: and why the other was not? Answer, so clearly I
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: wanted to count because I went to 10 South, but
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Thomas was sleeping. So I didn't count 9 South, but
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I went to 10 South to count his unit because
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: he wanted to count. He was, so I counted up
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: there and I came back down to my unit. Question,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: got it. He was awake as far as you could tell. Answer, exactly. Question,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: a lieutenant visited the shoe around 4 a.m. to perform
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: a round or what do you call it when a
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: lieutenant is that a counter around? Answer, to be honest,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just know she comes around and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: supposed to do a walkthrough, but I don't know as
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: far as for the lieutenant what they classify it as. Question,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: do you recall, was that around 4 a.m.? Answer, around
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: that time. question, and is it right that the lieutenant
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: went up and did it count, or around in 10 south,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: but not actually in the shoe, is that correct? Answer,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: to be honest, I know she didn't do it in
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the shoe, but I can't recall if she did 10 south.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Alright folks, we're going to wrap up right here, and
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: in the next episode, we're going to pick up where
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to pick up where we left
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: off with the Tova Noel interview with Congress. Question. And
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: is it right behind that lieutenant went up and did
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a count or around that 10 South, but not actually
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: in the shoe? Is that correct? Answer. To be honest,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I know she didn't do it in the shoe, but
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I can't recall if she did 10 South. Question. Around
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: 530 that morning, there was some kind of switch where Mr.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Thomas went to relieve the 10 South guard and that
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: guard went to get food. Is that right? Answer, correct. Question, okay.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Is a, right that there was some kind of confusion
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: about whether or not control had given permission for all
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that to happen? Answer, it was the lieutenant. So 10
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: South called and I answered. And he said that the
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: lieutenant said to relieve him to go get food. So
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't believe him. So I called the lieutenant's office
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and asked, did she say that? But by the time
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I called the lieutenant's office, the lieutenant that was on
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: staff didn't answer or wasn't there. So when I asked
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Jean, he said he doesn't know anything about that
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: because he would have been just coming on and Thomas
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: said he will go. Question. I understand. If you remember.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: What was it that caused you not to believe that
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: 10 South Guard in the first place? Answer. Because it's not.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: You're not supposed to go outside to get food. Question.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: A couple of questions on those Google searches that were
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: being discussed last round. The timestamp on those was around
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: 542 a.m. and 552 a.m. You described a little bit
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: about clicking a pop-up. The records that were in these
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: DOJ files seem to indicate an actual Google search for
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: latest on Epstein in jail. But they also had a
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Google search for latest on Omar Amanat, who is some
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: kind of famous person who was at MCC at the time.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Is it possible that you Googled both of those searches
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: just out of curiosity because these are high profile people? Answer,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: so for Aminat, she actually asked me, like, this is
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: in general population, like, oh, do you know who I am?
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no. And he's like, he's like, oh,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: like the producer, a filmmaker or whoever. So him, I
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: remember that I Googled him because he was telling me
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: who he was. Question got it. I actually never heard
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: of him until I was getting ready for this, but
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: apparently he's famous. So if you recall running the Aminat
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Google search and then those records also show the furniture searches.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: that you were talking about? Answer, uh-huh. Question, and then
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: sandwiched in between there, is Google search latest on Epstein
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: in jail? Is it possible that you also ran that
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Google search? Answer, possibly. But to the best of my recollection,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I don't ever remember. I know what Aminat because we
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: had a conversation. Like he actually was like, do you
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: know who I am? But as far as Epstein, I
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: don't remember actually physically because every time the news page loads,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: he's on there. So you click it and you read. Question,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: but is it right that after the July 23rd incident, maybe,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: like you and others, kind of knew at that point
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: who Jeffrey Epstein was, and that he was high profile
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: in some way, is that right? Answer, correct. Question, so
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: by the night of the 9th, you were aware that
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Epstein was a famous person? Answer, correct. Question, okay. As
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: far as the timeline, before we come into discovery of Mr.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Epstein's body, which you've done previously, but I'll just ask
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: a few more. But before we get to that part...
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else that happened, stands out in your mind,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that night, that we have not already talked about? Answer, no. Question,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: you described discovering, along with Mr. Thomas, Mr. Epstein in
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: his cell. Is it around 6.30 a.m., more or less,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: for delivering breakfast? Is that right? Answer, correct. Question, and
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Thomas is the one up at the cell door, and
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: you're back at the grill? Answer, correct. Question, Thomas gets
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: no response from Epstein, so he goes into the cell,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: and that's how it starts. Is that right? Answer, correct. Question,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: did Thomas call for a cutter? Answer, yes. Question, did
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: you then run back to get a cutter? Answer, yes. Question,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: and is that when you also press the medical button? Answer, yeah.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I hit the body alarm first and then went to
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: go find the cutter. Question, did you hear Thomas cutting
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: the fabric at all? You never saw that happen, right? Answer, no. Question,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: did you hear a ripping? Answer, I heard a ripping. Question,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: you did. Is that after? Did you return with the cutter?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: hand it to Thomas, and then there was a rip?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Or did he cut it with something that he already had? Answer, no,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I returned to ask him where's the cutter because I
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: can't find it, and that's when I heard the rip. Question,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: got it. So he had already some kind. Do you
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: know what he had? Answer, I don't know if he
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: had anything because I can't see. Question, did you see
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Thomas lower Epstein to the floor and start CPR? Answer,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: so I can't see all the way in like it is.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I can't see the lowering, but I imagined he lowered
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: him because you see his legs coming like this way.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So I could only see like his legs. Question, were
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you able to see whether Epstein looked blue or had
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: any signs of a fight or any other scratches or
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: things like that? Answer, not from the door. When he
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: was coming out on the stretcher, then I could see
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: him fully. Question, do you have a recollection of when
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: you saw him come out on the stretcher? Did he
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: look discolored? Answer, his face. Question, what color approximately? Answer, blue. Question, blue.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Did you see anything reflecting wounds or scratches? I guess
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: other than on his neck. Answer, no, I didn't even
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: see his neck. He just looked blue. Question, as far
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: as you remember, did Thomas ever say, we're going to
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: be in so much trouble? Answer, yes. Question, what's your
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: opinion of why he said that? I mean, it sort
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of speaks for itself. But what was your, what was
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: going through your mind at that moment? Answer, at that moment,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: when he said that, I didn't understand what he was
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: referring to, because in my mind, I was like, how
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: are we going to be in so much trouble if
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: we didn't do anything to him? Question, do you remember
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: responding to Thomas? Answer, I didn't respond to him. Question,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: were you aware in this moment that Epstein had been
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: found hanging? Or were you not sure what was going on? Answer, yeah, no.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know he found him. Question, did you ever
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: actually go into Epstein's cell? Answer, no. Question, and you
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: may have said this. I'm sorry if you did. Approximately
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: how quickly did medical and support staff arrive after Thomas
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: first discovered Epstein? Answer, oh, they arrived like five minutes. Question,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: the morning watch operations lieutenant told the IG that when
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: he arrived... You told him, quote, Epstein hung himself. Do
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: you recall that happening? Answer, no. Question, what were you
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: doing once all the medical personnel arrived to start working
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: on Epstein? Answer, standing at the bottom of the tier. Question,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: do you recall inmates saying anything to you as this
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: was all unfolding? Answer, they wasn't saying anything to me.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: They were just chanting because it's like everybody in the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: cell blocks always echoes. They were chanting, but not speaking
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to me. Question. Do you remember what they were chanting? Answer. Oh,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: y'all in so much trouble. Question. Did an inmate, or
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the inmates, or any individual inmate say that you killed them? Answer. No, never. Question.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: At least one inmate said they heard an MCC staff
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: member say that if Epstein was dead, it would be
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: covered up. Did you say or hear anything like that? Answer.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: They did not say, and I never heard anything like that. Question.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: and you left the MCC once Epstein had been removed,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: and that was your last shift. Answer, correct. Question, a
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: couple of miscellaneous MCC-related questions. Were guards required to search
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: inmates' cells in the shoe? Answer, yes. Question, how often
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: would that typically happen? Answer, as far as how often
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: it happened, I just don't remember. Question, was it pretty,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: you know, every shift that you were on? Did you
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: see that happen at least once? Or was it once,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: maybe once every couple days? Somebody would do a cell search. Answer,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: it didn't happen on my shift. Question, that day or
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: at all when you worked in the shoe? Question, at all,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I can remember. On the 4 to 12, I don't
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: remember any cell searches. Question, do you recall ever conducting
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: a search on Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer, never. Question, do
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: you recall any of your colleagues ever conducting a search
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: on Mr. Epstein's cell? Answer, no. Question, do you recall
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: either knowing or hearing colleagues discussing Epstein having extra linens
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: in his cell? Answer, no. Question, would it have been
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: typical for inmates to provide or be provided with extra linens?
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Is that something they could ask for? Answer in the shoe, no. Question,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: do you recall anybody ever, or I guess I should
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: say this, do you recall ever noticing as you look
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: through the windows into Epstein's cell, noticing more than usual
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: amounts of sheets or clothes? Answer, no. Question, I think
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: you had given a quote at some point about the
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: CPAP machine, that other inmates would not have been given
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: something like that, but Epstein was getting special treatment, quote,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: because it's Epstein. Is that still your point of view
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: on his treatment as you sit here today? Answer, I mean,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I've never seen any other inmate with a CPAP machine. Question,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: do you have any theory? Or did you have a
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: belief at the time as to why Epstein was getting
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: what seemed like special treatment? Answer, no. Question, there was
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: some discussion about a note that was found in Epstein's
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: cell after he died, and it read, redacted name, Left
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: me in a locked shower for one hour. Noelle sent
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: me burnt food. Giant bugs crawling over my hands. No fun.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Do you have any? Before you read about it in
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the newspapers, but back at the time. Do you have
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: any knowledge of that note existing? Answer no. I actually
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: saw that on 60 Minutes. I never even saw that
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: in the paper. Question. Do you recall Epstein ever complaining
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to you about the food that you brought him? Answer no. Question.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Did Epstein ever complain to you... about being left alone
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: and locked in a shower for an hour? Answer, no. Question,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: did you ever hear Epstein complaining about bugs in the shoe? Answer, no. Question,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: you were asked, I think, earlier about the possibility of
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein having a pen in his cell to write a
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: note like that. Would inmates in the shoe be allowed
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to have pens in their cells? Answer, so out of
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: the allowed part, I'm not sure if they're allowed, to
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: be honest, I don't know. Question. Would it have been
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: surprising or unusual if you looked through somebody's cell door
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and saw them using a pen in the cell? Answer.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Probably not. Question. It would not have seemed unusual or strange? Answer. No. Question.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: There's a suggestion that on August 9th and 10th, Epstein
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: was not in the cell, which he was technically assigned.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: He was assigned in the shoe, but some other cell
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and some other tier. Do you recall ever even knowing
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: that or hearing that? Answer. I never heard that. Question.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Do inmates or did inmates in the SHU have ID
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: cards on the door of their cell? Answer, no. Question,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: how would you all as guards typically have the knowledge
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: of who's supposed to be in which cell when you're
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: doing your rounds? Answer, a roster. Question, and the roster
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: has cell assignments? Answer, correct. Question, but you have no
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: recollection of ever looking at the roster and saying, oh, Epstein,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I think is actually supposed to be in that one? Answer, no. Question,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: with respect to the cameras in the SHU, It's been
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: discussed only one of them was recording in a way
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: that it should have been, but the others were, it
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: sounds like, live streaming footage. Would you, let's start with,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: would you personally have been watching the live streams of
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the other cameras in the shoe? Answer, no. Question, do
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: you know who ordinarily would have been watching those live streams? Answer, no. Question,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: would you have any way of knowing whether anybody was
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: monitoring those live streams throughout the night? Answer, I don't know. Question,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: after Epstein's death, a Bureau of Prisons after-action team was
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: set up to look into the death. Have you ever
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: heard of an after-action team, either in this case or generally? Answer, no,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: never heard of it. Question, so that team never contacted you? Answer, no. Question,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: it sounds like at least one inmate reported that he
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: thought was an unusual amount of document shedding or shredding
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: going on by that after-action team. Do you have any
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: knowledge of bureau staff shredding documents in the weeks following
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Epstein's death? Answer, I don't know. Question, meaning you've never
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: heard of that or you don't remember whether or not? Answer, no,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: so I don't know if that took place because my
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: last day was the 10th, so I don't know. Question,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: did anybody ever mention anything like that to you? Answer, no. Question,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: would that have been, to your knowledge, would that have
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: been a typical practice in MCC? Shredding the documents? Is
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: that something that you would see every week? Answer, I
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: never saw it at all. Question, there was an email
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: in the DOJ file release. It was addressed to Jeffrey
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Epstein's brother, and it was from somebody with an address
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: of ESKADRAD1 at gmail.com. And this person claims that you
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: and Michael Thomas were paid $ 6, 500 so you would not
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: visit prisoners, and therefore a man named Michael Rose entered
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's prison cell and strangled him. Have you ever
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: met or heard of anybody named Michael Rose? Answer, no. Question,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: as far as you know, is the allegation I just
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: mentioned true or untrue? Answer, as far as I know, untrue. Question,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: and have you ever heard of the sender with an
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: email address, escadrad1 at gmail.com? Answer, never heard of it. Question,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: all right, so nobody to your knowledge paid you Or Mr. Thomas,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: to your knowledge, money not to do your rounds? Answer
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: for me, nobody paid me anything in reference to Mr.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Epstein or anything surrounding him at all. Question, just a
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: few miscellaneous ones left. You mentioned injury leave early in 2019.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: What was the approximate date range for that? Answer, March
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: 2019 and I came back in June of 2019. Question,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I think that was reflected in the DOJ release that
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: somewhere during that interval, you traveled to China. Is that correct? Answer,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: I did go to China, but I don't remember when
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: I went to China. I think it was April. Question,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: and I think that's what the record suggested as well.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I would assume, but I'm just asking. That was a
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: personal trip, personal tourism? Answer, I actually was going to Thailand.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I just had to connect in China. Question, got it.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Did that trip or any conversation that you had on
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: that trip relate in any way to your official duties
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: at MCC? Answer, no. Question, did that trip or any
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: conversations you had on that trip relate in any way
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell? Answer, no. Question, I
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: think we have a member who would also like a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: few questions. I'm going to turn it over. Ms. Stansbury,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here today. I know
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: it's been a long day and I want to just
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: follow up on a few of the questions that folks
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: were asked about just for a little more detail for
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: the record. So I know you've already answered a lot
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: of questions about the night of, and you've answered the
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: questions about things that were out of protocol, special treatment,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: and you mentioned the CPAP. And one of the questions
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: that's been raised in commentary about the case is whether
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: or not somebody wished harm on Jeffrey Epstein. Is there
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: anything that you witnessed inside of the jail that would
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: indicate that somebody wished him harm? Answer no. Question. Anything
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: from jail management? Anything from the people who worked there? Noelle, no. Question. Anyone?
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Any of the other cellmates or people who were in
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: the area he was being kept? Answer, no. Stansbury? Okay.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned that your last day was on the 10th,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: and that was the day of the incident. I'm sorry
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I had to step out for part of the questions
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: but my understanding is that you relayed that your firing
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: was directly directly related to the night check and how
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: it was completed is that right noelle to everything that
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: took place question do you feel that your firing was
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: standard for something like that occurring Or do you feel
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: like you're being retaliated against? Or was there anything unusual
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: about your firing? Noel, well, I don't know if I'd
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: use those terms. I feel like. Foy jumps in, before
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: you do, let me talk to you about that. So
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: they come back on the record. Noel, so because it
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: was Jeffrey Epstein, that's the sole reason why I got fired.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Because all these other names and people that have been
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: investigated have done the exact same thing, and they still
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: work for the Bureau, and they are promoted in the Bureau.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: but because I happened to work that day and it
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: was Mr. Epstein, that's why I got fired. So the
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: term I would use is unfair. Ms. Stansbury, and just
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: to kind of follow up a little bit on that,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: do you feel like you were being targeted because of
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: that or that they were trying to silence you? Or
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: do you feel like you were singled out because you
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: knew something? I hear you say it was unfair, but
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: tell us your perception of why the fired you and
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: not others. Noelle, because I was the one, me and Thomas,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: was the specific ones working the shift. but typically for
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: not conducting rounds and counts, everybody else gets suspended. And
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that is the punishment for that. Stansberry, and did the
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: person or persons who told you that you were fired
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: or that this was happening provide any explanation to you
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: at the time of why you're being fired? And if so,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: what did they say? No, well, they did. It was
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: in a report, but I can't remember verbatim, like what
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: exactly was said, but like failure to follow policy and
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: rules of the Federal Bureau of Prisons that lieutenants and
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: everybody else They don't follow. Stansberry, do you feel like
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: the unfairness was unusual in the sense of like they
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: fired you right away that day you were singled out? Foy,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: that's not what happened. She wasn't fired right away that day. Stansberry, oh,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Noel, I was placed on administrative
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: leave right away after that for a while. And after
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: November 19th, 2019, once I got indicted... then I was
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: no longer on administrative leave. But then it was following
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: two years after, more than two years, that I actually
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: got terminated. Stansbury, I see, okay. I'm sorry if I
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: had that sequencing incorrect. That's my bad. But going back
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: to the question of not, of now knowing that's your timeline,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: you said just now it was unfair. But do you
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: also think it was unusual, like something about your termination
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: was different than how it was normally handled inside the jail?
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Someone being terminated for a report, not reporting, And the conduct? Noelle, well,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: us because it was Epstein. Stansberry, okay. Noelle, but if
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: it was not Epstein and it was another inmate, we
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: would have still been working for the Bureau of Prisons. Stansberry,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: do you have a feeling or thought about why aside
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: from the fact that it was just a famous person? Noelle, yeah, no. Stansberry, no, okay.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: I know that you talked a little bit about the
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: financial transfers that people have raised, the deposits that happened,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: and I understand that you answered some questions earlier. And
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: just to go back over them, as I understand that
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you stated earlier that they were deposits that you made yourself. Noelle, correct. Question,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit about those? What
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: was the source of the money for those deposits? Foy, wait, wait, wait. Okay,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: they go off record. They come back on. Noelle, the
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: source of the money was that I mentioned earlier has
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with Epstein. Anyone related to Epstein involved
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: with Epstein. No one has ever approached, offered, or asked.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Anything that's concerning my money has nothing to go with
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Epstein at all. It's solely me and my personal savings.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Stansbury got it. And I understand that you're not disclosing
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: the source here, but I would like to offer you,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: if you would like, if you would like to put
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: anything on the record, the official record that helps explain
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: where the funding came from, to help clarify that for
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: the public. We want to make sure you have that opportunity.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: And if you don't choose, that's okay too. We're just
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: letting you know that that's an option. Foy, it's clear enough,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: so you're good. Stansberry, okay. That trip that you took
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: afterwards was personal nature. You went to Thailand. Was that
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: a trip you financed yourself? Noelle, correct. Stansberry, and it
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: was just a vacation? Noelle, correct. Stansberry, and I think
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that my final question is, other than the things you've
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: already shared in the room and have been specifically asked about,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: is there anything weird about the night that stands out
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: in your brain that you have otherwise shared that you
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: feel is important to be on the record? Noelle, no.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Stan's very okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you for
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: being here. Noel, you're welcome. Redacted, is there anything else
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: you'd like to share with the committee about the circumstances
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: of Mr. Epstein's death? Noel, no. Question, and I think
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: you said earlier, it's your personal belief that Mr. Epstein
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: took his own life. Is that right? Noel, correct. Redacted,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: with that, thank you for your time today. We can
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: go off the record. All right, folks, that's going to
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: do it for the Tova Noel interview with Congress. The
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: next one we're diving into is Bill Gates. All the
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: the description box.