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Advice For People Struggling To Recruit Within Specialisms · The Electrical Show

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The Electrical Show with Thomas Naji sponsored by Boss Professional, Powerful power Tools,
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talk for measuring tools and experts accessories. Right, Welcome to the Electrical Show
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with Boss Professional here on Fixed Radio. I'm your host as always, Thomas
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Naji, and we're mixing it up in the studio today. We've got Paul
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on the right hand side as always, and I always say, you know,
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he's the fountain of knowledge, but as it happens to my left,
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we also have another fountain of knowledge, sort of nervous laugh here, Dan
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Jackson, who's a fire we're talking about Isam's for the last few weeks and
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he's a fire specialism. On today's show, we're going to be joined as
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well by David mckehon, who got in touch with the show after hearing some
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of our episodes on specialisms. Now, David operates a company called Absolute Protection
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Group. Now they specialize in fire and security systems. But he's finding the
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hiring process as always nightmare, so nothing new there. David asked for advice
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on how to hire within the sector of the trade, so we've invited him
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to join us on the phone later so we can give him between the three
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of us, hopefully some nuggets of advice. Now music throughout the course of
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the show, We've got Fleetwood, Mac Happy Mondays, Dexys, Midnight Runners,
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and a few more. Now we do always start with Queen, but
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I'm gonna interjectics. I have two questions. The first one is to our
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producer Mark Mark, is there a reason that you didn't go the whole hog
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and get Tony Hennessy in here as well, just to put the pressure on
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a smidge more, because I find both of these very intimidating on either side.
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So just to mix it up, I'm just surprised you didn't do that
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and go the whole hog next week. Yeah, I was going to say,
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we like to segment the misery for you, Thomas, So yeah,
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yeah, And just before we get to Radio Gaga, just I'm going to
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rattle through this very quickly. Karma. Now, I'm a big believer in
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karma. Now, the rule is, as I, you don't know if
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you do something bad. The theory is is that Karma's going to come back
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and bite you on the ass next week, next month, next year,
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and the world stays in a nice harmonious equilibrium. About ten years ago,
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I bought I bought Amitz Bushy Shogun and it was a beautiful V six and
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it was puffing blue smoke. I bought it out of an auction house and
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I got it back to the garage, and I garage it was a shed,
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stripped it down, took the cylinder heads off, and I thought,
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lovely, jubbly cup of new gaskets. Jobs are good, and I put
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these new gaskets on, put it all back together, still puffing smoke.
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Bugger, So I took it all back. I thought heads are warped,
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so I took them back off, took the heads to be skimmed. It
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needed a new pair of heads, put some new heads on, still puffing
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smoke as I bugger. So I had to strip it all down yet again.
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It was like the third time I had to strip it down. And
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eventually I've got to the root of the problem and needed new stem seals,
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and I put these stem seals in and I put this whole engine back together.
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It's a bit of warriors, but with me on this and I put
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it all back together, and I had cured this smoking issue. It had
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absolutely cured. But by curing it, I had caused another problem. There
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was a rattle in this engine, and I swear to you I'm not lying.
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It was like the engine was going to fall out. It was so
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bad. It was absolutely horrific. But I cured the blue smoke issue,
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and over the course of this evening it was like a Saturday night or saying.
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I'd got so angry trying to get to the bottom of this rattle because
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I couldn't find it. It was just this deep, throbbing rattle and I
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couldn't get to the bottom of it. And as you get more and more
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stressed, I figured, you know what, I'm just going to drive it
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until it breaks. I'm just going to literally just drive it like I stole
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it. And I must have driven it for five miles around the Exeter and
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it didn't let up, and eventually I clued into the fat I'm just gonna
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have to strip it down and work out I've gone wrong cataclysmically somewhere, and
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I couldn't work it out, and I stripped it down. As I took
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off the right hand cylinder head, I found the air of my ways.
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When I had reassembled it, I'd accidentally dropped a bolt in the cylinder and
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this bolt when I'd started the engine. The piston had come up and obviously
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there's no room, so this bolt had just basically compressed itself into the top
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of the piston and I now could not remove this bolt from the engine.
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It was now it was forged into the top of the piston. I could
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not remove it, so I only had one option. I had to literally
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get a grinder and just grind this bolt. So by the time i'd finished,
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there was this hat this perfectly shaped bolt, nice and smooth, but
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there was you could see that there was a half moon bolt in the engine.
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And I literally just bolted it all back together, put it straight in
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the auction house and sold it. And I feel very bad because the next
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person had a world of pain with that truck. But as karma goes,
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because I made a profit on that, and it was even worse. I'd
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probably got atonement if i'd given it to charity or something. But as it
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happens, one of my employees last week, about two weeks ago, crashed
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one of my vans, and ironically the bill for that was twenty nine hundred
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quid. I paid it today. That was actually the amount that I got
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for that truck when I sold it, so Yeah, karma worked in funny
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ways. So yeah, anyway, Queen Radio Gaga, Fix Radio Time to
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crack on. I'm Thomas Naji with Paul Meenan on the Electrical Show, and
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we've also got Dan Jackson here on the show as well as fire safety engineering
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consultant just to join us today. It's your first time on the show,
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isn't it, Dan. Yes, I'm sort of nervous here. Let that
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I know what you do for a job. But the humble listener bring them
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up to speed. What is it that you actually do? I'm Dan Jackson
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and I protect people from fire. Tom Well, there's a little bit more
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than that. So Dan is a beloved fire guy in E five, but
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the world needs to know his secret, and I'm here to throw my friend
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under that bus. Everybody in E five knows him as sexy Jesus. If
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you want to know why, please go on his Instagram and look at him
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with his hair down and you'll see why. But he will always be sexy
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Jesus. A few weeks ago, David mckewan is it Mikael, and I
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hope it is. I do apologize if I spelt that set, if I
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said that wrong. From Absolute Protection Group, and he emailed in because he
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specializes in fire and security systems, much like Dan, but he is struggling
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to find staff for his business, probably much like most of us, to
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be honest, and David is on the line now. So David, thank
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you very much for joining us. Can you add a little bit of context
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for us and just explain sort of the challenges that you've found when you're trying
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to bring people into your business. The biggest issue I've found, and it's
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been ongoing since I started the business, is you've got an area where people
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just don't seem to want to do the work, but they are quite happy
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to take the pay. It shouldn't be laughing for yes, And there's a
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lot of when you're when you're out seeking for people, there's a lot of
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people that say, oh, won't get out of bread for sixty seventy K,
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like less than sixty or seventy K, and the dopes going around that
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it's like, oh, I want a Ferrari and seventy K just to get
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out of bed in the morning. It's the world can't run or sustain that
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forever, Like no one can give you that as a contractor It's almost like
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the people that need to be trained have left and there isn't anyone else,
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or they're just not interested in me in training. They just know what they
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know and they don't want to do anything else. Yeah, the demand for
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the services massively outweighs the current skill set for sure. In the industry.
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I'll tell you now, they're playing seventy eighty grand a year for tradesmen.
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I'll get my tools back out and jack my job in less stress. I'm
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with you, it'd be far less stress. That's yeah. How are you
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going about finding leads for employees? How is it that you're currently doing it.
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I've got bad experience with agencies, and so I try my best not
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to use agency. Is what I try and do is use LinkedIn Facebook.
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I try and use read indeed all of your jobs sort of posting site,
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and do it that way the old if you like the old passion way,
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try and grab cvs, Try and grab someone's attention to give me a CV.
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All to just avoid the extortion at costs that agencies are. How about
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the actual staff where if you bought more reliable staff in let's say you found
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them and you brought them in what will that allow you to do? What
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sort of the goal behind it? So so I should say I've got two
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fantastic members of staff at the moment, and in case they are listening,
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I definitely want to make sure that then they're clear that they are fantastic that
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when you spoke to the producer earlier. I'm joking. I'm just so the
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company is expanding at ever a growing rate and I need to firefight because we
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haven't got an staff as it is. But also the plan is to grow
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into other industries. So one of my lads he really wants to do so,
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bless him. So I've done the course so I can now do so,
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and PV just so I understood it so I knew what I was actually
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going to quote. Why you know, just have a general understanding more so
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than I did before, so that I can start adding that to our repertoire.
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But genuinely, right now, with the staff levels I've got, I
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could not and should not start taking on extra jumps because I just can't get
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the staff to then manage what I've got and I'll need to have a period
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of time to train those staff when they do come on. But I'm just
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at this point. Now I'm at this crossroads. Okay, David, there's
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a lot to digest it. I'm going to try and give you my thoughts
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before Tom and danders a couple of bits. I would say, take stock,
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take a breath. Just because someone's done a solar course doesn't mean them
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make them competent to installer. It makes them want to do it, and
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I fully encourage when you've got member of staff who's super keen and just done
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a course to want to go out and do it. But as a business,
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in the minute you start putting solar systems up, your entire insurance profile
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and risk profile as a business changes. You need to engage with roofers.
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There's warranties involved, so there's a lot to think about while while not dampening
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the fire of the chap who wants to do it. Also, with agencies,
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I've found from all the agencies, you're right they some of them are
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Charlatan's, I've actually found the best agencies are the ones who actually were formed
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by tradesmen because they can understand whether or not the guys on their books are
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blaggers or not. That is definitely one thing that I would recommend going out
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and see if you can find someone who's a former tradesman who can provide you
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decent quality labor. And more importantly, I don't think everyone around this table
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hasn't ever same issues I do as well. The one thing and I've realized
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in mypply chain is you have to build your own You have to look internally
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and go right. I'm going to have to make a serious investment to grow
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people to meet my expectations, basically finding apprentices on people who are just keen
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to learn and will do a day's work. I mean that's half the bat
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was you rightly said this whole seventy eighty grand a year just get out of
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bed. What a load of rubbish. I know a lot of people say
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society and COVID niffing has put us in a position, and there are employers
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who probably will do that because they're desperate. And there was a stat a
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while ago. I think it was a Construction Leadership Council. I think I
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heard it on the Clive Show where they said that seven hundred thousand people have
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left the construction industry in the last ten years, and like seven hundred have
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replaced it. The people just not joining. We've got too many short course
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people joining in positions of management who don't understand and don't know. And for
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me, it's I desperately want from my supply chain to invest in the youth
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and make sure they're giving people proper four or five year apprenticeships. And that's
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not to say they've got to do long apprenticeships for the sake of it.
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It's experience. Got to have at least four to five years experience. But
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the Electrical Show on fixed radio. You're listening to The Electrical Show with Bosh
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Professional and Thomas Najie with Paul Meenan and we've also been joined by Dan Jackson
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this afternoon. Now still on the line is David from Absolute Protection Group,
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who specializes in fire and security systems, but like many of us, have
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struggled to find competent and reliable stuff. Dan, this question is for you,
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if you were in David's shoes, what would be your move here?
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Do you think because you've been in a similar position, I guess yeah.
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So it depends on the type of work that you do and what you're trying,
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what you're aiming to achieve within your business. But the first thing that
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comes to me is you've got an employee who you recognize the skill set.
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But I don't think you should direct your company based on what that particular person
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wants to do at all. It's your company and you should focus on the
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foundations of your business, but really having your niche and understanding how you sell
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your specific services because that will naturally attract particular type of people. Anyway,
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it's really it is really difficult to retain staff in today's environment where of course
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everybody wants as much money as they possibly can, and in some respects it's
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quite short sighted to think that I'm a subby I'm going to get you know,
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fifty percent more now. But the industry at the minute the money's there
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is really you want to nurture the people that you do have in the direction
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that you want to go, and you really have to find incentives to keep
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those people. But you need reliability like consistency. You need people who turn
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up every single day and you know you can rely on and trust full stop,
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end of and if you lose that trust, you lose that reliability gone.
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And although you might be thinking yourself as a business business owner, but
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I need that person to complete the work. You're better off without them end
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off because you need as a business, you need you need, you need
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to hammer in your message and what you're trying to create, and your customers
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need to come to you because they know you deliver this every time on time,
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to whatever standard it is that you've chosen for your business. So I
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know it doesn't you know, directly answer your question about you know, get
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getting the employees through the door. But I think, I think David,
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there's there's a lot you need to work on with within your business and about
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how you market it to track the right type of employee. So for example,
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if you're a company that you're saying you do fire, electrical, solar,
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you're going to attract people that are a bit of do a bit of
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everything and don't really specialize in anything. I mean that works for cyber organizations.
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It's good thought think. But if you if you want to me,
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fire and security are can two completely different trades Personally, I've never I mean
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I come from an electrical background and I moved into fire, but I would
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I've never well, I've dabbled with security, but I've never done it in
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detail, and I wouldn'tness fire and solar is excellent because fire and solar.
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It's always good to have a fire interface on the solar systems in case there
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is a fire on the solar system. Yeah, in the day, we
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rig all of our solar systems. By the way, David, just if
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there is a fire alarm, it shuts off the solar inverter. So we
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do a little link between the two. From the business point of view,
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David. To me, to like, within a business, you need you
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need profit right and you need the money in the business so you can reinvest.
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And obviously you've got to put food on the table for everybody else.
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But to me, I think especially for small businesses. You know, if
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you in your team, the aim is to get as much money in the
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bank as possible. And that may sound really obvious, but so you can
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reinvest. And to me, if you were banging out a solar system after
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solar system after solar system, and that's all you did, that's great because
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you're doing it timing tire and you can fine tune how efficient you can do
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your installations. It's the same with fire. The reason I got into fire
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more so after coming from electrical, it's because there's less variables. It's just
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cable, a few detectors. And I found the business model of selling systems
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was far more profitable than electrical systems and that's why I've done it, And
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it was to create that revenue in the business. And then it allowed me
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to invest in people. And I brought electricians in and who had a bit
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of a keen eye for you know, let's learn a bit about fire alarm
16:42
regulations or whatever. And then it was like, right, that person,
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this has shown a bit of an interest in this, let's train him up.
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Like so you're shown an interest because you can't force people to do stuff.
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But what you can do is you can plant seeds and recognize it.
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I mean you, as the business owner, you're here to direct, here
17:00
to tell people what to do, and essentially your team are here to carry
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out the work and the services. The market is so competitive, but if
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you showed your vision or what you're trying to achieve with your team naturally,
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after time it will be very painful. You will start attracting the right people
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to your staff, to your organization, your company. And if you were
17:23
consistent, consistent, consistent, you'll get people who like that consistency I mean
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the reason we started as the electrical buy and securities because I have a passion
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for all and couldn't make a decision. But it's actually I did it mostly
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because there were so when I was employed, we had this issue where you
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would have a customer, one customer, and when all of this work done,
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it'd be a bit of electrical, bit of fire, a bit of
17:52
security, and they'd have all different teams or companies coming in and no one
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would communicate with each other and get it on the level. Whereas if you've
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got one team coming in, the customer only has one place to look at
18:08
and talk to, and then each one of the teams, so that the
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whole point is the electricians would be electricians, the fire would be the fire,
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and the security would be the security. So it is split. But
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because I can't get the staff at this moment, we're all just all pitching
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and doing it all. We've tried apprentices. We've had four this year,
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and out of four, one is still with us. They've all just mucked
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about, being off sick more times than I've had holiday in the last six
18:40
years, and I just you know, each they have to go. So
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this is where like there's this lacking in wanting to be at work and doing
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the work. It's almost like the YouTube culture of I don't think that's by
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the way, one in ten electricians that most people employ will stay. The
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rest will go. If not one, Okay, it's not It's not an
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unusual thing there finding good people. I think you've got to kiss a lot
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of frogs. Yeah, yeah, okay, for one way of saying it
19:08
fixed radio. This is the Electrical Show. I'm Thomas Najie with Paul Meenan,
19:12
and we've also had a very handsome Dan Jackson here joining us today,
19:19
trying to throw some subtle conflidence in. We're here joined with David mckea.
19:27
I can't pronounce his name, so certain Miquet Apple's got it right, and
19:30
he's going to give us some advice on how to staff his business. Now,
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David, what are what are some of the skills that you're looking for,
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particularly in the employees that you're trying to hunt down, dedication, time
19:45
served, and just a real eye for detail and understanding that the customer needs
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a clean and tidy side. You know. Just I'm not looking for rocket
20:00
science. I'm looking for someone that has a good attitude doesn't f and blind
20:06
everywhere. Be honest, we don't know everything. I can't pursue possibly know
20:11
everything. So I'm not looking for someone that is an all knowing genius,
20:15
because I'm probably going to afford them anyway, but just someone who's just got
20:18
a little bit of get up and go and can think outside the box and
20:22
go I've got a solution for that, and well and go right? What
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about a question to the table, what about just if? Because I know,
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Paul, you've you believe in this bringing on lesser trained stuff and you
20:34
chip and mold them the way that you want them to do things. I
20:38
was always taught your expectations is not other people's realities, and that hit home
20:42
quite a lot for me because I had very high expectations time served. Then
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I realized there was no such thing as time served anymore. And it took
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me a few years and I was like, Okay, I need to I
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need to put the fire in the pot and start molding what I want to
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see and hopefully some people will stay, some people won't. And the only
21:02
way I could do that was by helping molder supply chain. It is ridiculously
21:04
hard for me when I see my suppliers and us taking on staff, it's
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yes, you're right. Will they not spend time on their phone? Will
21:14
they have a little bit of customer savvy? Will they're not f and Jeff
21:17
in front of the wrong people? And do they have an eye for wanting
21:21
to improve and learn and hopefully go on a journey where if they improve,
21:26
that means they're helping you. And if they help you, you help them.
21:29
There's got to be synergy in modern relationships, not just I am your
21:32
boss. You'll do what I've told your work till seven o'clock. I'm going
21:34
to ignore your family and your personal needs. That stuff doesn't work anymore.
21:38
It just doesn't. People just jack and go somewhere else. And we've seen
21:41
it for the last twenty years of blokes on jobs. They just jack and
21:45
move on. They don't care. You need to find people who do care.
21:48
Any other advice, Dan, before we let Ah good Man David go.
21:53
I mean, David, you said the type of person you're looking for.
21:59
I mean, I agree. I'd rather find somebody with good customer skills
22:06
than that's really technically minded who doesn't have people skills, because in honesty from
22:14
experience that easier to manage people who have personal skills, and of course they're
22:19
representing your company. And I mean I've had you know, guys work for
22:22
me in the past who you know, technically brilliant, but they rough people
22:27
up the wrong way, you know. So you've got you've got to find
22:32
the right and an interesting way of looking at it actually out. Yeah,
22:34
and we've got to appreciate everyone different, right. So, and when you've
22:40
got a team, it can be quite hard to price. When you've got
22:42
somebody who might be great with a customer but takes twice as long as the
22:47
next person, it really is a challenge. But I think I think to
22:51
me, I mean we're speaking offline Tom about you know calmer law of attraction.
22:57
You've got to set your vision as a business owner and really give that
23:00
message out, like if you if you want to tell people that your customer,
23:06
you're reliable, we're clean, we tidy. That needs to be in
23:08
your mission statement, within within on your website, you know, and what
23:12
you give out on social media. This is what we do. This is
23:15
us as a business because naturally you'll you'll get the type of you know,
23:18
potential employees. You go Oh, I like that, you know, I
23:22
like to look at that, and that's what I'm going to go speak to
23:25
this person they're offering a job. M hmm Okay, I think that's a
23:29
perfect place to leave it. David, thank you very much for listening and
23:30
the best of luck with your business is absolute. Best of luck to you.
23:33
You're listening to Fixed Radio, The Builder Station, The Electrical Show Thursday
23:38
from three and catch up anytime at Fix Radio dot co dot uk The Builders
23:44
Station, Fix Radio. That's it for today's Electrical Show where we gave some
23:48
advice to David was his last NAT J mckail and David McCallan struggling to make
23:53
hires for his business. It's not an unusual problem. But is David doing
23:59
a highest barks with specific skill sets or is this just an industry wide I
24:03
think it's an industry wide struggle, not just in fire, I think I
24:07
think everywhere. Industry wide, Yeah for sure, but yeah, maybe specific
24:12
to his business too. Any other thoughts, aob that's the word, any
24:18
other business. Hiring is a problem that isn't going to go away anytime soon.
24:22
I know there are silly jobs out there. I mean, I know
24:26
electricians that have been employed on sixty five grand plus with vehicles and all sorts.
24:30
There are them jobs out there nowadays, and there is a big problem
24:33
in the clients who don't know that, they don't know stuff, who will
24:37
have contracts with government and need bums in seats. They'll need to achieve a
24:41
big contract with the government for doing fibers or telecoms whatever, and they will
24:45
pay whatever it needs to be. And this is where the agencies take over
24:48
and they get in and they then really create that inequality because they could be
24:53
some very highly paid direct labor forces, but unfortunately with a lot of the
24:56
agency people, they'll go for the quicken dirty sometimes and of course because they
25:02
don't. It's not about the specific characteristics of an individual wh it's the skill
25:07
set for field the bums on seats. You know what you're gonna get.
25:10
That what you're gonna get as an agency going Have you got a gold card?
25:11
Great? It means you're competence exactly. And that guy could be two
25:14
pence short of a pound, not have a clue what he's doing, But
25:15
as long as he's got a gold card, it doesn't matter which which he
25:19
got On Instagram or Facebook or any of the other places, so it doesn't
25:23
guarantee anything anymore, and this is why I think it really is bandit country
25:26
at the moment out there as far as the state of recruitment and labor.
25:32
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25:38
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25:44
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25:45
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