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What The Heck is A Divorce Coach? · I Do, Part 2

0:13
Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two.
0:15
Speaker 2: I'm one of your hosts, Jenny Garth, and today I
0:18
Speaker 2: wanted to bring in a guest to talk about something
0:21
Speaker 2: that I've never even heard of before.
0:23
Speaker 1: You guys.
0:24
Speaker 2: She is a divorce coach and a certified divorce mediator.
0:28
Speaker 2: She has been at this for over ten years. I
0:31
Speaker 2: love her TikTok, and she is the co host of
0:34
Speaker 2: her own podcast, Divorce with Sam and Leah. I can't
0:37
Speaker 2: wait to talk with Samantha Boss Samantha. What the heck
0:42
Speaker 2: is a divorce coach?
0:44
Speaker 3: A game changer, a lifesaver, a financial saver? Well, okay,
0:50
Speaker 3: I mean it's a little bit of like we're the
0:51
Speaker 3: catchup all trades. It just kind of depends on what
0:54
Speaker 3: your case needs and what I'm finding my clients need.
0:59
Speaker 3: They're typically a high conflict divorce, meaning it's not going well,
1:02
Speaker 3: court is dragging out, co parenting's not starting off on
1:06
Speaker 3: the right foot. And they're usually women that have been
1:09
Speaker 3: in some type of toxic, abusive relationship and they don't
1:12
Speaker 3: know themselves yet because they were not happy in the marriage,
1:16
Speaker 3: and then they're going divorce, but there's this trial period
1:18
Speaker 3: where they're like segueing from the abuse to independence, and
1:22
Speaker 3: that's when all the decisions happen.
1:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if you're not abused per se, like you've
1:28
Speaker 2: just been in this situation that wasn't serving.
1:31
Speaker 1: You and you come out and you don't even know
1:34
Speaker 1: which ways up.
1:35
Speaker 2: So my only question really for this entire interview is
1:39
Speaker 2: why weren't you there when I needed you?
1:42
Speaker 3: Why wasn't I round when I was going? I mean,
1:44
Speaker 3: my divorce lasted forever. That's what everybody says when they
1:47
Speaker 3: meet me and they catch the vibe and they know
1:49
Speaker 3: what services I can offer, and it's like, where were you?
1:51
Speaker 3: Where were you? You know I found you too late?
1:53
Speaker 3: Where were you two years ago? You know I wasn't
1:55
Speaker 3: on your feed yet.
1:55
Speaker 2: Now I want to know what is it specifically that
1:59
Speaker 2: you do here?
2:00
Speaker 3: Well, my specialty and my bread and butter, which I
2:04
Speaker 3: just I could sit on stage and talk for hours about,
2:06
Speaker 3: is parenting plans, because that's where mine went wrong. Parenting plan,
2:11
Speaker 3: you know, customizing them, making sure they're detailed, making sure
2:14
Speaker 3: they're protecting you and not you know, leaving a bunch
2:17
Speaker 3: of gray area for a high conflict personality to take
2:19
Speaker 3: over you. Getting your parenting plan all the way from
2:22
Speaker 3: diapers to diploma. So I customize parenting plans for people
2:26
Speaker 3: because when you again, you're in that middle phase. You
2:27
Speaker 3: were married and you want to be single parent, but
2:30
Speaker 3: you're in this phase of decision making and you just
2:32
Speaker 3: don't know. You know, if you're divorcing with kids that
2:34
Speaker 3: are two, three, five, seven years old, you're raising kids
2:38
Speaker 3: for the first time. You don't know what's ahead even
2:40
Speaker 3: in a good situation, let alone you know a situation
2:44
Speaker 3: where you're not getting along with your co parent now.
2:46
Speaker 3: So I customize those parenting plans. I get you wherever
2:48
Speaker 3: you're at with your kids, whatever age the youngest is,
2:51
Speaker 3: and I get you all the way to high school,
2:52
Speaker 3: and I cover everything that you can think of from education, extracurricular, religion,
2:57
Speaker 3: and medical and everything in between. And we covered all.
3:00
Speaker 2: You sound like an expert. I to really love this conversation.
3:03
Speaker 2: I want to know, though, about your journey, because you know,
3:07
Speaker 2: there's yeah, there's nothing I love more than when you
3:12
Speaker 2: work with someone who has actually walked the same path
3:15
Speaker 2: that you've walked. And you were in a high conflict
3:19
Speaker 2: divorce situation and ended up being taking a lot of
3:23
Speaker 2: years probably off of your life and a lot of
3:25
Speaker 2: money out of your account.
3:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so as I was going through that, I
3:29
Speaker 3: was highly educated. I came from a good family. I
3:32
Speaker 3: was the first person to get divorced, and so there
3:34
Speaker 3: was a lot of shame and guilt of like, why
3:36
Speaker 3: couldn't I make this work? So I went into it
3:39
Speaker 3: acting like I was fine. So I hired a really
3:41
Speaker 3: good attorney. I was fine. I had a good, good attorney,
3:44
Speaker 3: so I thought, you know, and as I was going
3:46
Speaker 3: through this process, because it was taking so long, people
3:49
Speaker 3: friends and family started asking me questions as they went
3:51
Speaker 3: through a divorce, and I kept on teaching because I
3:54
Speaker 3: was an educator at the time. And I went through
3:55
Speaker 3: My divorce took about four years, and we were in
3:57
Speaker 3: court another four years after that over petty stuff that
3:59
Speaker 3: we just you know, couldn't help ourselves. We love the courtroom.
4:02
Speaker 3: And as I was going through that and helping friends
4:04
Speaker 3: and family, I realized like my true passion was correcting
4:07
Speaker 3: my mistake. I felt joy when I helped people. I
4:11
Speaker 3: felt like, Okay, don't do that because that's what I did.
4:14
Speaker 3: You know, don't answer it that way, because that's what
4:16
Speaker 3: I did. And it was a lot of healing in
4:18
Speaker 3: that and then when I met my now husband, Jared,
4:20
Speaker 3: he was like, why don't you quit teaching kids and
4:23
Speaker 3: teach adults about divorce? And at first I was like,
4:26
Speaker 3: you are absolutely insane, Like who would pay me to
4:30
Speaker 3: help them? You know? And he's like, people call you
4:31
Speaker 3: every day like people, and you're doing it for free.
4:35
Speaker 3: And there it went, and he just said, hey, why
4:37
Speaker 3: don't you become a mediator? So I did that at first,
4:39
Speaker 3: and I was getting couples all the time and that
4:41
Speaker 3: was great, but it wasn't my story. My story. We
4:44
Speaker 3: didn't work out a mediation, we did not get along.
4:47
Speaker 3: So I wanted to help me, the former me. So
4:50
Speaker 3: then I just started helping one client at a time
4:53
Speaker 3: and that's when it just it clicked. It felt right,
4:56
Speaker 3: and education is my number one objective. I just want
4:59
Speaker 3: people to know what's ahead and to know what their
5:03
Speaker 3: options are. I just don't think you get told because
5:06
Speaker 3: you're talking to a high priced attorney what your options are.
5:08
Speaker 3: So then that's how my business just evolved. I kind
5:11
Speaker 3: of I say that I've pivoted no less than nine
5:13
Speaker 3: times in my business because I'm trying to fit exactly
5:15
Speaker 3: what the former me needed and I needed support, and
5:19
Speaker 3: I needed an education and I needed somebody to say
5:22
Speaker 3: do this instead of just winging it and hoping that
5:26
Speaker 3: it was going to work.
5:28
Speaker 2: If you're getting me all fired up over here, I'm
5:30
Speaker 2: getting a little angry because I didn't have anybody like you,
5:34
Speaker 2: and I was winging it.
5:35
Speaker 1: Nobody told me anything.
5:37
Speaker 2: I didn't have any kind of knowledge of what anybody
5:40
Speaker 2: was talking about, sort as like legal terms and yes.
5:44
Speaker 2: And I committed to things that I would not have
5:47
Speaker 2: committed to if I had known what I was committing to.
5:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think people have a good heart. There's
5:53
Speaker 3: always one person in the divorce that has a good heart,
5:55
Speaker 3: has good intentions and once to co parent and once
5:58
Speaker 3: to work with the other and will put the kids first.
6:00
Speaker 3: But when you're met with resistance and bitterness and angry
6:04
Speaker 3: and just hatred the stuff that you agree to, you're like, Okay,
6:09
Speaker 3: well it'll get better and they'll come around and it'll
6:12
Speaker 3: work out right now. And that's what your lawyer sometimes
6:15
Speaker 3: tells you is, hey, don't worry about it, Jenny Wine,
6:16
Speaker 3: the ink dries, it's going to go smoother. Eighteen years
6:20
Speaker 3: Mine was a bumpy, twisty, windy road that never got smooth,
6:24
Speaker 3: and so I think that's where I think people's expectations.
6:26
Speaker 3: They go into it different and it stays different, and
6:30
Speaker 3: it's not going to go back healed for everybody the
6:32
Speaker 3: way you see on TV, or you see your friends
6:35
Speaker 3: across the street hell their neighbors and they still do
6:37
Speaker 3: Christmas together, and that's great for them. But that's not everybody.
6:40
Speaker 2: That's not everybody. I've been on both sides of that river. Yeah,
6:45
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time angry and mad and bitter
6:47
Speaker 2: and resentful and all the things. And I just reached
6:51
Speaker 2: a point in my personal life where I thought, oh
6:53
Speaker 2: my god, this is bringing me down. It's bringing me
6:57
Speaker 2: down mentally, it's bringing me down physically. Look in the mirror,
7:00
Speaker 2: I don't like what who's looking back at me, Honne.
7:04
Speaker 2: And I needed to like take charge of, like flipping
7:08
Speaker 2: the conversation in my own head so that I could
7:10
Speaker 2: come at it from a different way.
7:12
Speaker 3: Well, that was the only thing that's going to change.
7:13
Speaker 3: And I think anybody listening that's going through a high
7:16
Speaker 3: conflict co parenting journey or even divorce, the only thing
7:19
Speaker 3: you have control over is your own journey. You don't
7:22
Speaker 3: have control over the other house. Or the other attorney,
7:25
Speaker 3: or what your ex is doing, or how they're parenting
7:27
Speaker 3: at their house. The only thing you can control is
7:31
Speaker 3: how you interpret information, how you receive it, and how
7:35
Speaker 3: it comes out of you, you know, when you want
7:36
Speaker 3: to go back and talk and have a conversation. And
7:39
Speaker 3: I think too many of us are trying to control
7:41
Speaker 3: another house or have input about the other house, or
7:44
Speaker 3: care too much.
7:45
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I wasted so much time trying to
7:48
Speaker 2: like know, because I mean, that's brutal, Like you know,
7:52
Speaker 2: for me, I was everything. My kids were everything, and
7:55
Speaker 2: three little girls, and I giving up basically my life,
7:59
Speaker 2: my identity and become so much of a mom to
8:03
Speaker 2: these three girls. And I loved every second of it.
8:06
Speaker 2: So I wasn't like sad about that at the time.
8:09
Speaker 2: But when they did leave, I was like, oh my god.
8:12
Speaker 2: I text him, I call him. I try to make
8:16
Speaker 2: sure that their safety is this and they're eating that,
8:19
Speaker 2: and that they know they have their bags packed the
8:21
Speaker 2: proper way like, and all I got was like, click,
8:25
Speaker 2: hang up, no, text back, stay out of it. You
8:28
Speaker 2: don't belong here, there's no place for you. Don't worry
8:30
Speaker 2: about us. I've got it covered. All the things and
8:33
Speaker 2: those all those things would just make me so much
8:36
Speaker 2: angrier until I did come to terms with the fact
8:39
Speaker 2: that I don't get to have any say in my
8:43
Speaker 2: daughters once they leave my door.
8:45
Speaker 3: Yes, and that is a very and I think that's
8:47
Speaker 3: why women stay too long, you know, or just anybody
8:50
Speaker 3: stays too long in the marriage. But yeah, it's a
8:52
Speaker 3: big pill to swallow. The first couple of weekends they're gone,
8:56
Speaker 3: seeing them show up somewhere and their hairs all a mess,
8:59
Speaker 3: that they're in a weird outfit, or you get the
9:01
Speaker 3: call from the school that hey, you know, little Susie
9:04
Speaker 3: doesn't have her lunch today, like what are you doing?
9:06
Speaker 3: And you're just like, you know, like you gasp of embarrassment,
9:10
Speaker 3: and then you're like, I feel so bad for my child,
9:12
Speaker 3: and you're like, get your shit together, you know. But
9:14
Speaker 3: you have no control on any of it. But I
9:17
Speaker 3: see a lot of people spend so much time and
9:19
Speaker 3: energy on obsessing about the other house and the care
9:23
Speaker 3: and the quality, and they lose themselves and they lose
9:26
Speaker 3: And this is the thing that I did wrong. For
9:27
Speaker 3: eight years, I had no boundaries for eight years. I
9:29
Speaker 3: let him control my house for eight years in co parenting,
9:32
Speaker 3: and until I learned boundaries, my relationship with my children
9:35
Speaker 3: was at risk because I was parenting how he wanted
9:39
Speaker 3: me to parent, and I was doing things that the
9:40
Speaker 3: court wanted me to do, and I was so I
9:42
Speaker 3: was still in court. I was going to court all
9:44
Speaker 3: the time, and I was just not focused. I was tired,
9:47
Speaker 3: I was anxious. I was broke, I was miserable. I
9:50
Speaker 3: was drinking too much. I did all the smoking cigarettes
9:54
Speaker 3: like a fiend as soon as they went to bed.
9:57
Speaker 3: I was doing it all wrong because I wasn't. I
9:59
Speaker 3: was so obsessed with the co parenting journey and how
10:01
Speaker 3: shitty it was, and the divorce process and what will
10:04
Speaker 3: be the thing that'll make the stop. I was obsessed
10:06
Speaker 3: with finding the thing that would get us on the
10:09
Speaker 3: co parenting journey. I didn't have radical acceptance that I
10:12
Speaker 3: was just in high conflict and it was going to
10:13
Speaker 3: stay that way forever. But at the eight year mark,
10:16
Speaker 3: I hit, you know, the absorbents of boundaries and self
10:20
Speaker 3: love and self care. And as soon as I did that,
10:23
Speaker 3: my relationship with my children changed. We became unbreakable. My
10:27
Speaker 3: relationships with friends and family grew, and I didn't care
10:32
Speaker 3: less what he was doing like it was just like
10:34
Speaker 3: a switch went off, and I'm like.
10:35
Speaker 1: So free. Didn't you feel so free in the peace?
10:38
Speaker 3: I mean it was just this warm blanket that comes
10:41
Speaker 3: over And then it almost became a laughable game when
10:43
Speaker 3: he would try to get to me and I'm like, good, try,
10:46
Speaker 3: like like I knew this coming into I teach my
10:50
Speaker 3: clients a Bingo card, especially if they're new to figuring
10:54
Speaker 3: out their ex. You should be doing a Bingo card
10:56
Speaker 3: about every situation. So if you have a school function
10:59
Speaker 3: coming up and makes you really nervous because you know
11:01
Speaker 3: your ex is going to bring five family members, maybe
11:03
Speaker 3: a new significant other, show up late, you know, bring
11:07
Speaker 3: everybody and their brother, have your kids show up late,
11:09
Speaker 3: you know, not embarrass you with a teacher. Write all
11:11
Speaker 3: those on a bingo card.
11:12
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I love this idea because.
11:14
Speaker 3: Then you know, you sit with you. My mom was
11:16
Speaker 3: my rock, so I would sit with my mom and
11:18
Speaker 3: we would make a Bingo card about court. You know,
11:19
Speaker 3: what's he going to wear, what elevator is he coming?
11:22
Speaker 3: Because he always did the same thing. Where's he going
11:23
Speaker 3: to part? You know, what's he going to say? Who's
11:25
Speaker 3: he bringing with him? You know? Things like that, and
11:28
Speaker 3: then at the end of it, I would, you know,
11:29
Speaker 3: we would exchange the bingo card and I'd be like,
11:31
Speaker 3: oh mom, like you got more than I did. And
11:33
Speaker 3: it was this way fun humor to it and expectations
11:38
Speaker 3: because then when he did something you know, outlandish in court,
11:41
Speaker 3: I was like, damn, I had that one down.
11:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't anger you as much as it does, yes, because.
11:46
Speaker 3: I expected it. It's a pattern and anybody of high
11:49
Speaker 3: conflict it's a pattern behavior. I mean, there's nothing new
11:51
Speaker 3: they're throwing at you. Guys. You just need to pay
11:53
Speaker 3: attention to the patterns and do bingo cards, and then
11:56
Speaker 3: it becomes less toxic for you, like you'll react better,
11:58
Speaker 3: you'll stay emotionally raked because it's an expectation versus a
12:03
Speaker 3: I cannot believe that happened.
12:05
Speaker 1: Well, you know it's gonna happen, yeah, right right, So.
12:07
Speaker 3: Write it down and then it becomes something to where
12:09
Speaker 3: you get to the point where you don't even have
12:10
Speaker 3: to do the car just when you sit in the
12:12
Speaker 3: car and you're like, Okay, this is how this could
12:13
Speaker 3: go one of six ways. This is going to you know,
12:15
Speaker 3: go this way, and then it becomes an expectation and
12:17
Speaker 3: a learned behavior and then your responses can get better
12:21
Speaker 3: and your piece stays there versus you know, going and
12:24
Speaker 3: everything like, well it goes well, it's probably not prepare
12:27
Speaker 3: for the probably not you know, have your body ready
12:30
Speaker 3: for it? Probably not going well.
12:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so you cannot be prepared when this is
12:38
Speaker 2: your first rodeo, or even if it's your second rodeo.
12:41
Speaker 2: But now you have more little clowns in the in
12:44
Speaker 2: your kurt kids take care of like you don't. There's
12:48
Speaker 2: so much you don't know when. And divorce is a business.
12:52
Speaker 2: I feel like it is.
12:54
Speaker 3: I mean it's a it's a billion dollar industry every year.
12:58
Speaker 3: And I think just having a divorce coach somebody, people
13:00
Speaker 3: like you said, you know what is this. We're the calm,
13:03
Speaker 3: We're the educator, we're the handholder. You know, you have
13:05
Speaker 3: a very high priced attorney that every time you call
13:07
Speaker 3: costs you three hundred to six hundred dollars depending on
13:09
Speaker 3: where you live, you know, and sometimes all you want
13:12
Speaker 3: to do is just bitch on the phone and have
13:14
Speaker 3: somebody say that's not right, Jenny. Let us do that
13:17
Speaker 3: for a way more affordable cost to where you can
13:20
Speaker 3: get all that emotional stuff out and then we can
13:22
Speaker 3: give you bullet points. Okay, take this to your attorney,
13:25
Speaker 3: and now you've gotten through the story, and your attorney
13:28
Speaker 3: really only has time for bullet points anyways, and they
13:30
Speaker 3: really only want bullet points. They don't want the story,
13:32
Speaker 3: you know, And so we can cut down costs. The
13:35
Speaker 3: education part alone, just educating you about the process, educating
13:39
Speaker 3: you about you know, write a first refusal, holidays, vacation,
13:42
Speaker 3: how many vacation weeks should we have? And what does
13:44
Speaker 3: that look like? Can I take them back to back?
13:46
Speaker 3: Explaining all of those options. That alone, just that educational
13:50
Speaker 3: part takes away so much anxiety. You know, if you
13:53
Speaker 3: have mediation coming up and some attorneys just say, go
13:56
Speaker 3: into it with an open mind, okay, but what are
13:59
Speaker 3: they gonna ask me? Well, we just let the mediator
14:01
Speaker 3: lead it, okay, but what are they going to ask me?
14:04
Speaker 3: That's up to your mediator. Okay, that sends me into
14:07
Speaker 3: a tailspin. No, So letting us as divorce coaches educate
14:12
Speaker 3: you about here's all the things you should bring up
14:15
Speaker 3: if even if the mediator doesn't, because at the end
14:17
Speaker 3: of the day, when the mediator's out of the picture,
14:19
Speaker 3: the lawyers out of the picture. You're with your kids
14:23
Speaker 3: using a paperwork to guide you, and if that paperwork
14:28
Speaker 3: is horrible, you don't have good guidance, and then what
14:30
Speaker 3: do you have to do. You have to either a
14:32
Speaker 3: call your ex, which you don't want to do and
14:34
Speaker 3: have to have those conversations, or b call a very
14:36
Speaker 3: high priced attorney back to have them work it out
14:39
Speaker 3: for you. So either way you're doomed. It's not what
14:42
Speaker 3: you want to be doing as a single parent. You
14:44
Speaker 3: want to move on and have really good paperwork.
14:47
Speaker 4: Yep, what was it you said you were a teacher before?
14:59
Speaker 1: What did you teach?
15:00
Speaker 3: I taught pe, driver's ed and health.
15:03
Speaker 1: Okay, and I coached all these sports like those teenagers.
15:06
Speaker 3: Junior high in high school. Yeah, that was my bread
15:09
Speaker 3: and butter. I loved it. I loved the kids. But
15:12
Speaker 3: there was something about and I think that's why I'm
15:14
Speaker 3: good is because I was I was formed on teaching.
15:16
Speaker 3: You know, that was My background is all teaching and
15:18
Speaker 3: teaching and teaching. So I mean, you give me a subject,
15:20
Speaker 3: I can talk for hours about divorce. And so that's
15:22
Speaker 3: why Jared was like, you have to teach people, like
15:25
Speaker 3: let all of the pain that you went through become
15:28
Speaker 3: your passion and just teach people better. And I know
15:31
Speaker 3: I've seen people thousands of dollars and that's great, but
15:34
Speaker 3: I know I've helped people take their power back and
15:36
Speaker 3: feel educated and well versed. When talking to their exes
15:39
Speaker 3: and with their attorneys. They feel like they know what
15:42
Speaker 3: they're talking and they know why. I always explain why something.
15:46
Speaker 3: I don't just say, hey, pick this for Christmas. I
15:48
Speaker 3: give them an example of why they should pick that
15:50
Speaker 3: for Christmas. And then it's like you see all these
15:53
Speaker 3: light bulb moments for people that are super distracted right
15:55
Speaker 3: now again and that really tough phase of married and
15:59
Speaker 3: that divorce phase. You're emotional, you're worried about your kids,
16:02
Speaker 3: you're finding yourself again, You're just you're worried about everything.
16:06
Speaker 3: Let me guide you. Let me guide you through that
16:09
Speaker 3: part because I've been there, done that, did it wrong,
16:11
Speaker 3: but now I know how to do it right. Well.
16:12
Speaker 2: First of all, I think like, because you had that
16:14
Speaker 2: experience teaching and sort of managing.
16:19
Speaker 3: A personalities different people, all different shapes and sizes, I.
16:23
Speaker 2: Feel like there's you know, a lot of guys who
16:25
Speaker 2: kind of stop developing at desertain age until they don't
16:29
Speaker 2: can't get away with it anymore. Yep, And I feel
16:32
Speaker 2: like that's good on the job training for you for surely.
16:35
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm a single mom, say, and I'm going
16:38
Speaker 2: through what has become a high conflict divorce and I
16:42
Speaker 2: don't know what I need, but I know I need help.
16:46
Speaker 2: So a person like you is a person to turn
16:49
Speaker 2: to for just to help you have a plan in
16:52
Speaker 2: place to give you guidance.
16:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think my ideal client would be the
16:58
Speaker 3: woman that's at home going gosh, I want to leave,
17:01
Speaker 3: and this has given me hope. Like you know, I'll
17:03
Speaker 3: contact Sam. I want you to contact me before you
17:06
Speaker 3: contact an attorney. And here's why I want you to
17:08
Speaker 3: be educated first when you go to that consultation, yes,
17:11
Speaker 3: with that attorney, because you should be doing two or
17:13
Speaker 3: three consultations to really get a full grab. And I
17:15
Speaker 3: would really like to take it a step further and
17:17
Speaker 3: not only get an education from me. I have a
17:19
Speaker 3: masterclass with a workbook that's phenomenal. It's only ninety seven dollars.
17:22
Speaker 3: I keep everything affordable because when I was going through
17:24
Speaker 3: my divorce, I couldn't affortue you.
17:26
Speaker 1: That's amazing though.
17:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, just so a little master class a couple hours long.
17:29
Speaker 3: You can learn all the lingo, learn about holidays, learn
17:32
Speaker 3: what's going to be asked of you, right, And then
17:34
Speaker 3: I would really, if I had like the best wishes
17:37
Speaker 3: for you, I would want you to go ahead and
17:39
Speaker 3: build your parenting plan. That way, you can get everything
17:42
Speaker 3: wrote down of what ideally you would want for your kids,
17:45
Speaker 3: from diapers to diploma, and then you use that paper
17:48
Speaker 3: to take into your consultations and say, okay, attorney, I
17:51
Speaker 3: know you're giving me all the right answers here, but
17:53
Speaker 3: I want you to look at this and if you
17:55
Speaker 3: really truly believe that you're a good fit for me,
17:57
Speaker 3: what do you think of this proposed parenting plan. This
18:00
Speaker 3: is how much detail I want to have, this is
18:01
Speaker 3: the level of longevity I want to go. And what
18:05
Speaker 3: do you think? And I'm going to tell you right
18:06
Speaker 3: now that answer will dictate whether that's a good lawyer
18:08
Speaker 3: for your situation or not. Because that lawyer may get
18:11
Speaker 3: offended that you've already done a lot of work because
18:14
Speaker 3: that just decreased their billable hours. That attorney may say,
18:17
Speaker 3: absolutely not, We're not doing something like that. No judge
18:21
Speaker 3: will go for that, and it's like, well, that's because
18:23
Speaker 3: you're still using a template from nineteen eighty four. Okay,
18:25
Speaker 3: so things have changed. Kids have modernized, so have relationships,
18:29
Speaker 3: and so has personality disorders. We need a little bit
18:32
Speaker 3: more detail in here. But there's attorneys out there that
18:34
Speaker 3: have seen my parenting plan and they love it because
18:37
Speaker 3: because modifications are on a rise, people are coming back
18:40
Speaker 3: to court again and again again once they're divorced because
18:42
Speaker 3: they realize their paperwork is faulty and it doesn't go
18:45
Speaker 3: in age up with the children. No.
18:47
Speaker 2: But then you feel stuck because you've just gone through
18:49
Speaker 2: this expensive divorce and you realized you shouldn't have said
18:54
Speaker 2: no to this, or you should have said yes to this,
18:56
Speaker 2: or you realize I don't even know what's happening.
18:59
Speaker 1: He's taking them forever other week, what right?
19:01
Speaker 2: And because that was my case, I was just like
19:03
Speaker 2: in such a waze of like what I didn't even
19:06
Speaker 2: know what way was up?
19:09
Speaker 3: Right?
19:09
Speaker 2: And then you have to go back like that's the
19:12
Speaker 2: only option. You have to go get it amended, and
19:14
Speaker 2: that costs a ton of money.
19:15
Speaker 3: Too, Yep. And that's where that's just my frustration. I mean,
19:18
Speaker 3: I had three hundred cord entries for a reason. Because
19:20
Speaker 3: our parenting plan when we got it was four pages.
19:22
Speaker 3: I was so excited after four years to have a
19:24
Speaker 3: parenting plan. I mean I was like disappointed in what
19:27
Speaker 3: it said, you know, as far as visitation, but I
19:29
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, at least I have a parenting plan.
19:30
Speaker 3: And then the first time I went to use it,
19:32
Speaker 3: I was like, wait a second, like why is this
19:34
Speaker 3: not mentioned? Why is this not mentioned? So then I
19:37
Speaker 3: casually called my ex because I thought we'd be co parenting,
19:39
Speaker 3: and he was like, doesn't say I have to. Oh.
19:41
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like, wait a second, like you know,
19:44
Speaker 3: or it was child support should cover that, child support
19:46
Speaker 3: should cover that, you know, doesn't say I have to.
19:47
Speaker 3: It was always like yeah, but this is for our kids.
19:50
Speaker 3: This isn't for me. This is and if it's not written,
19:52
Speaker 3: they won't do it. And so I was stuck with
19:55
Speaker 3: this four page pairing plan. So every time, like the
19:57
Speaker 3: kids leap to a different phase of life, I would
20:00
Speaker 3: have to go back and say can we add this
20:02
Speaker 3: in here? And I kept asking can't we just kind
20:04
Speaker 3: of plan out? Because again I taught I know the
20:06
Speaker 3: phases of children. Can we just not ride out all
20:09
Speaker 3: the way to graduation. Well, we don't know yet, Sam,
20:14
Speaker 3: So you would just want me every time they go
20:15
Speaker 3: through a new phase to hire my attorney, pay a
20:17
Speaker 3: new retainer, fill out paperwork, and go through this stress
20:20
Speaker 3: all over just when I'm telling you, let's just go
20:23
Speaker 3: ahead and put it down. And my methodology is this.
20:25
Speaker 3: Too many people go into divorce thinking they'll be friends still,
20:28
Speaker 3: or they'll get along, or they'll just work on it
20:30
Speaker 3: later or discuss it later. My methodology would be plan
20:34
Speaker 3: for worst case scenario. You're already paying the money. Pay
20:37
Speaker 3: for worst case scenario. Write out every detail you can
20:40
Speaker 3: possibly think of all the way to graduation. And here's
20:42
Speaker 3: the deal. If you end up being that Kumbayau relationship
20:45
Speaker 3: and you are friends, put the fucker on the shelf
20:48
Speaker 3: and never look at it. But if you need it,
20:51
Speaker 3: you pull it out and you say, hey, I'd love
20:54
Speaker 3: to Steve, but I think I'm gonna follow the parenting
20:56
Speaker 3: plan on this one.
20:58
Speaker 1: I didn't have a parenting plan.
21:00
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that makes my just blood boil for you.
21:06
Speaker 1: I don't know how he got through it.
21:08
Speaker 2: I remember a lot of feudal Well, I'm gonna call
21:12
Speaker 2: my lawyer threats, and then him saying, go ahead, you'll
21:16
Speaker 2: have to pay for it.
21:18
Speaker 1: Then you're like, well, fuck me, I can't. I don't.
21:20
Speaker 1: I don't have more of my nose pay for this.
21:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got nothing. I can have no choices, I
21:25
Speaker 2: have no options. I have no way out of this
21:27
Speaker 2: awful feeling, right.
21:29
Speaker 3: And that's that's the situation that most of my clients have,
21:32
Speaker 3: is that they're willing to work with their co parent,
21:34
Speaker 3: and their co parent is a counterparent who always say,
21:37
Speaker 3: taking you to court. Then you can't do that. I'm
21:39
Speaker 3: taking the kids from you. You're gonna have to pay
21:40
Speaker 3: for my lawyer to where I'm already broke, So now
21:43
Speaker 3: you have me buy the balls. And you know, now
21:45
Speaker 3: I have to agree with what you want because I
21:47
Speaker 3: can't afford to take you to court. So then that
21:49
Speaker 3: high conflict parent gets away with murder every.
21:50
Speaker 1: Single time, every single time.
21:52
Speaker 3: And it's frustrating.
22:04
Speaker 4: Okay, when you.
22:04
Speaker 2: Talk about that parenting plan, though, is that something that
22:07
Speaker 2: you even though you're representing or working with one client,
22:12
Speaker 2: say in this case, the female, uh, the woman or
22:15
Speaker 2: whatever one partner, then you do you work with the
22:18
Speaker 2: other parent as well to come up with that parenting
22:21
Speaker 2: plan or is it just what one side wants.
22:23
Speaker 3: It's just what one side wants to propose. So again,
22:26
Speaker 3: they're using that parenting plan to either find a really
22:29
Speaker 3: good attorney, they're using that parenting plan as a starting
22:31
Speaker 3: point to take mediation with them. Because we all know
22:34
Speaker 3: in our first mediation appointment we're like ass sweaty, nervous.
22:37
Speaker 3: When we were just like, you know, mouth dry, and
22:40
Speaker 3: we see our high conflict person and then we may freeze, right,
22:43
Speaker 3: and then we forgot all those good things that our
22:45
Speaker 3: girlfriends and TikTok showed us and the reels and we're like,
22:48
Speaker 3: oh shit, we forgot. So that's why you need to
22:50
Speaker 3: have it on paper, because you're gonna lose your mind
22:52
Speaker 3: at your first appointment. So having that there, you know,
22:55
Speaker 3: and then if doesn't go, well, okay, still I still
22:58
Speaker 3: have it. Maybe I'll edit it a little bit, make
23:00
Speaker 3: it from what I heard in mediation, But then my
23:02
Speaker 3: attorney is going to propose it to the other side
23:04
Speaker 3: attorney to attorney before our court date even comes up.
23:07
Speaker 3: So the attorneys are constantly trying to edit down because
23:10
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, when you have children
23:11
Speaker 3: and you're divorcing, everybody's gonna walk away with a parenting
23:14
Speaker 3: plan of some kind. It's going to have some kind
23:16
Speaker 3: of written, you know, documentation that says what's happening with
23:19
Speaker 3: the kids, what holidays, you know, what things are you doing?
23:22
Speaker 3: And so why not be the lead on that, because,
23:24
Speaker 3: like I've told my clients, I'm not polishing a turd.
23:27
Speaker 3: If you wait for your client to send over to
23:29
Speaker 3: our side and I'm helping you, I can't fix garbage, okay,
23:33
Speaker 3: And mine is spectacular because again, diapers is a plane
23:36
Speaker 3: of detailed, detailed detail. And when I get these like
23:38
Speaker 3: six seven page parenting plans to just say, parties will
23:41
Speaker 3: later discuss, parties will lay to determine. No, I don't
23:45
Speaker 3: want to determine anything with him later. I want it
23:48
Speaker 3: to be done. So that's why I always want my
23:50
Speaker 3: client to have it done first. Be the proposer, be
23:52
Speaker 3: the ones that initiate, Be the lead, you know, for
23:55
Speaker 3: in the marriage, most of my clients have been the
23:57
Speaker 3: second person. They may have been leading in the organizer
23:59
Speaker 3: and everything, but they been second fiddle for most of
24:01
Speaker 3: the marriage. This is your opportunity to be leading through
24:04
Speaker 3: this process and feel like you have your power coming back.
24:07
Speaker 1: You know that.
24:08
Speaker 2: You know, you don't spend any time researching divorce or
24:11
Speaker 2: how that works until you're about to get one.
24:14
Speaker 1: But I feel like.
24:15
Speaker 2: In just talking to you, like I feel like we
24:17
Speaker 2: should talk about that, teach that before people get married.
24:21
Speaker 1: I mean not.
24:23
Speaker 2: People will not like that, probably because people don't even
24:25
Speaker 2: want to talk about prenups. But I feel like, if
24:29
Speaker 2: you're going to go into a legally binding situation with
24:32
Speaker 2: somebody and it looks amazing in this moment, you don't
24:35
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen in life. Nobody knows, and
24:37
Speaker 2: again you have no control, right, so why not learn?
24:41
Speaker 2: Why shouldn't we be teaching? And you know, it's another
24:43
Speaker 2: thing I wish we were teaching in school, like what
24:46
Speaker 2: is marriage? What does that mean to us? And how
24:48
Speaker 2: does that affect our livelihood and our living situation?
24:52
Speaker 1: All things? It's really important.
24:54
Speaker 3: Right. Well, I have two children from my divorce. We're now,
24:56
Speaker 3: you know, twenty one and nineteen, and of them's in college.
25:00
Speaker 3: She goes the University of Alabama, and she know, she
25:03
Speaker 3: sees her peers, you know, going out and doing typical
25:06
Speaker 3: college behavior, and she's always playing through because she was
25:10
Speaker 3: a child of at high conflict co parenting journey. She's
25:12
Speaker 3: always like, Hey, I know you're dating that guy. If
25:14
Speaker 3: you sleep with them and happen to get pregnant, can
25:16
Speaker 3: you coparent for the next eighteen years with this guy?
25:18
Speaker 3: I mean, my daughter's like the mom trying to be like, hey,
25:22
Speaker 3: you may have an accident that you don't intend to.
25:24
Speaker 3: Can you co parent with this But do you even
25:26
Speaker 3: know what their morals are? Do you know what they
25:28
Speaker 3: want for Christmas? And not? Like my kids are so
25:30
Speaker 3: well versed in my business now. They're part of the
25:32
Speaker 3: business and helping you know, other kids going through divorce
25:36
Speaker 3: and moms and giving input and things like that of
25:38
Speaker 3: what it was like because I didn't do it right
25:40
Speaker 3: and so they talk about, you know, my journey and stuff.
25:42
Speaker 3: But yeah, you have to be able to co parent
25:45
Speaker 3: with this person before you have kids and having that
25:47
Speaker 3: strong conversation, Hey, before we get into kids. If we
25:50
Speaker 3: ever do split up, what would you think? What would
25:53
Speaker 3: it feel like? You know, on my second marriage with Jared,
25:55
Speaker 3: I joke, but I'm not joking. You know, I am
25:57
Speaker 3: the breadwinner of our household. I've always joked that I
25:59
Speaker 3: will pay you child support. I will be the weekend
26:01
Speaker 3: warrior parent. I will swoop in for holidays like I
26:05
Speaker 3: can't go through another toxic divorce. There's just no way
26:07
Speaker 3: my body. But I also picked a man that I
26:09
Speaker 3: know it would never get that way. You know it's
26:12
Speaker 3: not going to get that way. His personality is the
26:15
Speaker 3: personality that I need. Right. So having that ability, I
26:18
Speaker 3: think that first marriage gives you is like I know
26:20
Speaker 3: what I don't want. Not doing that right, you learn
26:23
Speaker 3: a lot, Yeah, you learn.
26:24
Speaker 1: You learn along with that learn on the job training situation.
26:28
Speaker 3: If you're not learning from every relationship about what you
26:31
Speaker 3: put into it and what you took away and what
26:33
Speaker 3: your fault is. And I think just a little side
26:36
Speaker 3: piece of advice to anybody listening when they start dating again,
26:39
Speaker 3: If you're dating someone after your divorce and they've been
26:41
Speaker 3: divorced as well, and they can't take any ownership and
26:44
Speaker 3: their divorce, that's a red flag.
26:46
Speaker 1: For me, it's a red flag.
26:47
Speaker 3: And for me I first eight years, I would have
26:49
Speaker 3: told you it was all my ex husband gosh to
26:51
Speaker 3: live with him. I would have blamed everything on him.
26:54
Speaker 3: But then again, when I got personal development and self
26:56
Speaker 3: care and self love and boundaries and all that personal
26:59
Speaker 3: work was going on with therapy. That's when I realized,
27:01
Speaker 3: should I play just the biggest part in our marriage
27:04
Speaker 3: failing and our divorce taking? Forever? It was me too? Absolutely,
27:08
Speaker 3: me too.
27:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so much finger pointing in the beginning, especially
27:12
Speaker 2: maybe for many years, and I've definitely was, you know,
27:16
Speaker 2: a major part of that.
27:17
Speaker 1: But I had to start.
27:18
Speaker 2: I always say I had to start pulling the thumb
27:20
Speaker 2: and like looking at my part in things good one
27:22
Speaker 2: and that that's not just like you know with my divorce,
27:25
Speaker 2: that's like you should be doing that in every situation
27:28
Speaker 2: in your life, looking at what is your part in
27:32
Speaker 2: this either being a success or not being a success?
27:35
Speaker 3: Exactly. I love that. I love that. I'm gonna steal
27:37
Speaker 3: that thumb thing.
27:38
Speaker 1: It's a good one, right, that is a good one. Okay.
27:40
Speaker 2: So when people find you, what is the number one
27:42
Speaker 2: question they have?
27:44
Speaker 3: How do I get my lawyer to understand what I need?
27:47
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't know how to work their
27:49
Speaker 3: lawyer in their favor. And I think people forget you
27:52
Speaker 3: are the one paying your attorney's not the other way around.
27:55
Speaker 3: You know, you're you are paid for you right, right?
27:58
Speaker 1: So people are.
27:58
Speaker 3: Coming to me for expert, you know, advice on parenting
28:01
Speaker 3: plans and how do I get my attorney to understand
28:03
Speaker 3: that I want the longevity, you know, I want the detail.
28:06
Speaker 3: I want to be protected. I don't want to have
28:08
Speaker 3: to come back to court or work with them, So
28:10
Speaker 3: that would be hands down parenting plan questions and how
28:13
Speaker 3: to get your lawyer to buy into it is the
28:15
Speaker 3: big one. And for that just the answer is the
28:18
Speaker 3: right attorney will buy into your story and believe you
28:21
Speaker 3: and anybody that shames you for saying you know, well,
28:24
Speaker 3: don't worry. I've seen a lot of ex husbands or
28:26
Speaker 3: ex wives like that, like it's not that big a deal.
28:28
Speaker 3: That's not your attorney, you guys, there's plenty of attorneys
28:31
Speaker 3: out there. I don't care. If you've been live in
28:32
Speaker 3: a small town, fish around, go around, do your research.
28:36
Speaker 3: Picking the wrong attorney at the very beginning can be
28:39
Speaker 3: a doomsday to your whole case. So due diligence, I mean,
28:43
Speaker 3: I know people like I'm broke, you know, I can't
28:45
Speaker 3: afford all these consults. Can you afford one hundred thousand
28:47
Speaker 3: dollars by picking the wrong attorney at the beginning, Because
28:50
Speaker 3: that's what I did. I fell for Dove chocolates in
28:52
Speaker 3: the bathroom and the marble countertops and her high heels,
28:55
Speaker 3: and I was just like, I'm in love. I'm like,
28:58
Speaker 3: look at this powerful woman. Yeah, And then she didn't
29:01
Speaker 3: do shit for me. And then I hired my next attorney,
29:03
Speaker 3: who wore shoulder pads before they were cool again, had
29:06
Speaker 3: like Sigourney Weaver hair, and like just destroyed office. I
29:11
Speaker 3: hired her and she was a badass. So it's not
29:13
Speaker 3: always what you think at the consultation. But that's why
29:16
Speaker 3: I want you to take that parenting plan and really say, no,
29:19
Speaker 3: this is the level of person I'm dealing with, and
29:21
Speaker 3: this is how much protection I need. And if they
29:23
Speaker 3: don't buy into that detail, that's not your attorney.
29:26
Speaker 1: Okay.
29:26
Speaker 2: I think this is a great place for us to
29:29
Speaker 2: take a pause in this conversation.
29:31
Speaker 1: We have so much more to talk about.