Latest / The Vikings Tailgate / Vikings Tailgate: Zach Martina Is Still Loving The Campbell Gamble and The Lions Chances - DET - Ep 77

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Vikings Tailgate: Zach Martina Is Still Loving The Campbell Gamble and The Lions Chances - DET - Ep 77 · The Vikings Tailgate

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Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of The Tailgate.
1:01
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to our podcast feed. Chad is out
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Speaker 1: this week. He's on a honeymoon over in Europe. And
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Speaker 1: so the great Zach Martina, who has been on time
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Speaker 1: and time again to discuss his favorite team, the Lions,
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Speaker 1: joined me. Just always a blast when he's on. A
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Speaker 1: lot of back and forth trash talk. A lot of
1:21
Speaker 1: fun information. I hope you guys enjoy the show. Boom!
1:25
Speaker 1: I'm hot today. Wreck it. Wreck it. That's a bad man.
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Speaker 2: Come on, baby. Turn me up. Yeah!
1:32
Speaker 1: Touchdown! Hey everybody, welcome back to the Vikings Tailgate, brought
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Speaker 1: to you by Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace of the
1:43
Speaker 1: Minnesota Vikings. I'm your host, Cy Amundsen. Your Minnesota Vikings
1:47
Speaker 1: are 6-0, and it is Lions Week, and that can
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Speaker 1: only mean one thing. Despite the absence of the great
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Speaker 1: Chad Daniels, our favorite Detroit fanatic is back. Ladies and gentlemen...
2:02
Speaker 1: Please welcome the one, the only, the talented Zach Martina. Hi, Zachary.
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Speaker 2: Hey, Cy. Chad, you're dead to me forever.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, he can't come through for everybody
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Speaker 1: all the time. I don't want to waste any time, Zach.
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Speaker 1: I want to know.
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Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
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Speaker 1: Listen to me. Best division in football. Both our teams.
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Speaker 2: No question.
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Speaker 1: Both our teams are battling. I think... I'm going to
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Speaker 1: be fair. I think my team is... Taking a lot
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Speaker 1: of heat right now, despite being the number one team
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Speaker 1: in the division. I think there's a lot of haters.
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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of doubters. We can get
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Speaker 1: into that later.
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Speaker 2: But... Well, I think you guys are the most surprising
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Speaker 2: team in the league so far.
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Speaker 1: I think you're the most surprising team in the league
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Speaker 1: so far.
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Speaker 2: I mean, that was kind of a compliment. Like, who
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Speaker 2: doesn't love a good surprise?
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Speaker 1: There was a negative comment, and you know it.
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Speaker 2: It was not. I come on here to be friendly.
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Speaker 2: I come on here to see my friends. And you just...
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Speaker 2: You're making it all... real green bay well.
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Speaker 1: Let me compliment you i'm surprised i think it's surprising
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Speaker 1: that your team puts their shoes on and takes the
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Speaker 1: field every week the point is zach i i know
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Speaker 1: that wasn't great but you started it the point here
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Speaker 1: zach i started by being nice it was a backhanded
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Speaker 1: compliment and you i come from the state of passive
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Speaker 1: aggressiveness you don't think i understand oh you're the most
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Speaker 1: surprising team in the league isn't that neat You.
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Speaker 2: Said that you're catching a lot of heat. So that's
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Speaker 2: because you are surprising. People aren't buying in. I didn't
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Speaker 2: say I wasn't buying in. I was speaking from an
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Speaker 2: NFL perspective.
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Speaker 1: Why did your coach go for it on fourth down
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Speaker 1: from his own 20-some yard line in the fourth quarter?
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Speaker 2: That was, of all the fourth down calls he's made,
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Speaker 2: that was bizarre. Honestly, the only thing I can think
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Speaker 2: of is that it was, in that first half, LeFleur
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Speaker 2: was just, fourth downing down our throat and uh it
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Speaker 2: was it was a you know bad decision uh but
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Speaker 2: we we pulled it out that was that was rough you've.
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Speaker 1: Been coming on here for four or five seasons and
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Speaker 1: every single time you come on here i ask you
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Speaker 1: this question and i am now going to ask it
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Speaker 1: again in the face of that fourth down because you're
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Speaker 1: new to success you're like the family that won the
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Speaker 1: lottery and bought a lake house you didn't inherit the
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Speaker 1: lake house from your banker dad. And I actually think
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Speaker 1: that's admirable. I think that's a likable trait about the
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Speaker 1: Detroit Lions fan base.
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Speaker 2: Why are you hitting me with the back of your
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Speaker 2: hand the way that you are? This does not seem
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Speaker 2: complimentary at all.
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Speaker 1: But my question is, at what point, and I've asked
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Speaker 1: this over and over again, at what point do you
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Speaker 1: start worrying about the crazy risks and crazy gambles being
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Speaker 1: the thing that ultimately prevents you from getting to where
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Speaker 1: you want to go, which is a Super Bowl and
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Speaker 1: winning a Super Bowl trophy. Because, Zach, I say, you know,
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Speaker 1: as our fan base worries about our offense, the thing
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Speaker 1: about winning a Super Bowl is you have to succeed
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Speaker 1: minimum against three really good teams in a row, if
5:05
Speaker 1: not four.
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Speaker 2: Well, neither of us really know what it takes to
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Speaker 2: win a Super Bowl.
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Speaker 1: I understand that, but I'm asking you, where has your
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Speaker 1: worry meter grown to or has it stayed the same
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Speaker 1: like where are you at in terms of this like
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Speaker 1: do i believe dan campbell can three or four games
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Speaker 1: in a row against the best teams in the league
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Speaker 1: not go for on fourth down when he should take
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Speaker 1: field goals and not go for it from zone 20
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Speaker 1: like has that is this more alarming to you than
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Speaker 1: it's ever been or are you.
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Speaker 2: Just still riding high Well, I think you're looking at
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Speaker 2: just one side of the coin. There have been plenty
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Speaker 2: of times where he's settled for field goals in ranges
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Speaker 2: that he would have gone for it. Obviously, the fourth
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Speaker 2: down call against Green Bay at the 20, that's something
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Speaker 2: people are going to notice, something people are going to see.
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Speaker 2: I'm not worried about it until it costs us something.
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Speaker 1: But it did already. It's something big. It did already.
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Speaker 2: What?
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Speaker 1: It cost you the game against the Packers in the
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Speaker 1: playoffs that you should have won. It did cost you
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Speaker 1: that game. He went for it on two fourth downs
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Speaker 1: when he should have kicked field goals a couple years
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Speaker 1: ago in the playoffs.
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Speaker 2: I don't know that we played. We didn't lose to
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Speaker 2: the Packers in the playoffs.
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Speaker 1: Who was it against? It doesn't matter. Who was he
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Speaker 1: playing against?
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Speaker 2: It does matter. I don't want you coming out saying
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Speaker 2: that we lost to the Packers.
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Speaker 1: Oh, sorry. I slipped up. You're the greatest at it.
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Speaker 1: It was the NFC Championship game. The 49ers. 49ers.
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Speaker 2: And that was more than his fourth down calls. That
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Speaker 2: was what was.
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Speaker 1: More than something, but the something still makes.
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Speaker 2: Up the everything. That's why I'm not worried about it.
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Speaker 2: The greatest risk, the thing that cost us that NFC championship,
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Speaker 2: and the same thing that is costing us games this
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Speaker 2: year is our defense. That is my worry. Our defense over. Oh,
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Speaker 2: my God. You're not looking at the numbers, dude.
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Speaker 1: I never look at the numbers. I never look at
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Speaker 1: the numbers.
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Speaker 2: Our defense was statistically worse than our 0-16 team up
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Speaker 2: until Arizona. We didn't win a game. And the defense
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Speaker 2: that we are out now with 3-2 was worse than that.
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Speaker 2: Thank God our offense is, you know, putting up points
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Speaker 2: and getting yards and doing what they got to do. But, yeah,
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Speaker 2: the defense is historically bad. It was historically bad coming
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Speaker 2: into the Arizona game. I don't know where it stands
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Speaker 2: overall in the annals of history, but the defense is bad.
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Speaker 2: Don't you come at me telling me that.
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Speaker 1: I think your defense, it doesn't matter how bad they are.
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Speaker 1: You kick those field goals, you'd have won the NFC
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Speaker 1: Championship game. But let's go here.
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Speaker 2: We blew a multiple touchdown lead in the second half.
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Speaker 1: And it could have been multiple touchdowns and two more
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Speaker 1: field goals. It's very interesting what our two fan bases
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Speaker 1: are going through because you have one of the top,
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Speaker 1: if not the top offenses in the league.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: And a defense that everybody's worried about. And we have
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Speaker 1: the number one defense in the league and an offense
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Speaker 1: that everybody's worried about. No, by the way, we have
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Speaker 1: a really good special teams unit. It's I will say
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Speaker 1: I'm curious how it's being received in your fan base,
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Speaker 1: because I think defensive football and and like because the
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Speaker 1: one thing you can say about the offense, they're not
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Speaker 1: turning the ball over. They're number one in turnover differential
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Speaker 1: and they're number two in clock control, time of possession.
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Speaker 1: That is a real metric, but it's just not pretty.
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Speaker 1: And I think that is alarming to people and maybe
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Speaker 1: justifiably so. But what is the vibe? Are people as
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Speaker 1: worried in Detroit about the defense as people all here
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Speaker 1: seem to be about the offense? Because I have this theory.
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Speaker 1: I think other people in town here have it too.
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Speaker 1: It's like, If we had the number one offense and
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Speaker 1: a defense that was struggling, I think you'd have less angst.
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Speaker 2: Well, based on the numbers that I was just referencing,
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Speaker 2: if you skipped forward, go ahead and skip back and
8:55
Speaker 2: you'll hear exactly what I was talking about. But I
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Speaker 2: think that the worry on the defense here, especially in
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Speaker 2: those first three weeks, was... I mean, I can't remember
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Speaker 2: being more worried about anything.
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Speaker 1: Okay. It was bad. I mean, we had.
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Speaker 2: that whole Terry on Arnold situation, which is just, I
9:14
Speaker 2: don't even want to get into it. Brian branches back.
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Speaker 2: And I think that made a difference. You could definitely
9:18
Speaker 2: feel his presence against screen Bay. It is not the
9:21
Speaker 2: sky is falling anymore, but if you looked up to
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Speaker 2: the sky right now, there'd still be some cracks.
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Speaker 1: Another thing you were really confident about over the past
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Speaker 1: few years that hasn't really come home to roost. And
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Speaker 1: I don't want to say this before the Vikings play
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Speaker 1: you guys. And then it burns me. You're going to,
9:36
Speaker 1: I'm going to cushion it. You and I both sat
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Speaker 1: here and thought, oh, like you thought, yay. And I thought, oh, no,
9:44
Speaker 1: the Lions have Jamison Williams. And man, like, I'm not
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Speaker 1: saying he hasn't put up good numbers and he hasn't
9:51
Speaker 1: been a valuable football player. But I was worried when
9:55
Speaker 1: you guys got that guy that he was a dominate
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Speaker 1: the division, like winner. 1B to Justin Jefferson type guy.
10:02
Speaker 1: And I think you thought that too. Where are we
10:04
Speaker 1: at in the Jamison Williams experience?
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Speaker 2: First three games were disappointing. But in these last two games,
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Speaker 2: I'd encourage you to take a look at the numbers.
10:15
Speaker 2: Jamison Williams has seemingly pulled it together. He has He
10:19
Speaker 2: has brought in a lot of balls and he has
10:22
Speaker 2: racked up a lot of yards. Two touchdowns and three
10:27
Speaker 2: touchdowns in the last three games. Over 100 against Arizona. 91,
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Speaker 2: I think, against Green Bay. Lots of targets. Jared Goff
10:38
Speaker 2: definitely trusts him. I'm still all in on James. And
10:41
Speaker 2: a guy that is built like him, that's like a
10:43
Speaker 2: string bean that's supposed to be speed and everything. He's
10:45
Speaker 2: out there throwing blocks. He does what he's supposed to do.
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Speaker 2: I love him. I love him.
10:50
Speaker 1: It will be really fascinating because a lot of the
10:55
Speaker 1: critique that the Vikings are getting is you haven't played
10:58
Speaker 1: anybody worth anything. because even the two teams you played,
11:02
Speaker 1: the Packers did not have Micah Parsons or their running back.
11:07
Speaker 1: And when you played the Bears, it was a rain
11:10
Speaker 1: game that neutralized everything. And so I think everybody's looking
11:14
Speaker 1: at this next four game stretch where you have Lions
11:17
Speaker 1: into Bills into Niners in Mexico, and then the Packers
11:22
Speaker 1: or vice versa on those two. They're like, oh, now,
11:25
Speaker 1: now not only are we going to find out about
11:26
Speaker 1: the team, but I think you even feel it nationally. Like,
11:28
Speaker 1: let's see what it looks like. But I think a
11:31
Speaker 1: lot of people, when they think about that, are thinking
11:34
Speaker 1: Bills and Niners, but you guys are the real test.
11:38
Speaker 1: With the numbers that you guys are putting up with
11:40
Speaker 1: the way Jameer is playing, I think you guys are
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Speaker 1: the real litmus test here. What are you thinking going
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Speaker 1: into this game when your offense meets this defense?
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Speaker 2: I mean, I was thinking about it today. I'm really
11:54
Speaker 2: looking forward to it. It's going to be a good test.
11:56
Speaker 2: We have our starting line and I mean, before he
11:59
Speaker 2: came back, Cade Mays, he's our starting center. Juice Scruggs
12:03
Speaker 2: was as far as the numbers go, so I wouldn't
12:06
Speaker 2: expect you to know anything about it. The best center
12:08
Speaker 2: in the league. So we've got a good line, and
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Speaker 2: I'm curious to see how it all gels, particularly with
12:15
Speaker 2: Blake Miller at right tackle. with the blitz schemes that
12:20
Speaker 2: Brian Flores does. He brings it in from everywhere. I'm
12:23
Speaker 2: a little less concerned than I would be if our
12:26
Speaker 2: skill positions didn't block the way that they do. I mean,
12:29
Speaker 2: you should see some of these blocks that Jameer Gibbs
12:32
Speaker 2: is putting up. He is, I mean, he's not pancaking anyone,
12:34
Speaker 2: but he's not being pancaked. You know, he's... That guy
12:37
Speaker 2: doesn't get enough credit for how tough he is. I think...
12:41
Speaker 2: You know what it's going to be? It's going to
12:43
Speaker 2: calm anyone's nerves on what Drew Petzig can do as
12:47
Speaker 2: an offensive coordinator. Because this is one mind going against
12:51
Speaker 2: another great mind in Brian Flores. And I think this
12:55
Speaker 2: is a big game for our offensive coordinator. I think
12:58
Speaker 2: this is a big game to make Detroit feel, forget
13:01
Speaker 2: about Ben Johnson in a sense.
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Speaker 1: I think it will be, it will be, you will
13:06
Speaker 1: never forget it. What do you mean? Forget about Ben Johnson.
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Speaker 1: He went and has the most talented quarterback in the NFL,
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Speaker 1: sans my homes. And even then some of these throws
13:14
Speaker 1: that Caleb throws, you're like, Oh boy. And they're doing
13:18
Speaker 1: what I, I don't know. You're never going to forget this.
13:20
Speaker 1: That's like saying like, that's like saying a good defensive coordinator.
13:24
Speaker 1: You'll forget all about the fact that you had Mike Tomlin. No,
13:26
Speaker 1: we won't. We had Mike Tomlin.
13:29
Speaker 2: If you want to make this a Bears podcast, we
13:31
Speaker 2: absolutely can. I'll tell you all the problems. This crap
13:34
Speaker 2: that he's pulling out there as a head coach, I
13:37
Speaker 2: don't think it's going to work out.
13:38
Speaker 1: It's clearly already working out.
13:40
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily working out. I mean, they haven't won anything.
13:44
Speaker 1: They have won as much as you've won and more
13:47
Speaker 1: in one season.
13:48
Speaker 2: Not true.
13:48
Speaker 1: How far did they go last year? They went to
13:51
Speaker 1: the second round.
13:52
Speaker 2: The second round.
13:52
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good. I mean, how far did you guys go
13:54
Speaker 1: last year?
13:54
Speaker 2: Do you want to take that? The year before?
13:56
Speaker 1: How far did you guys go last year? Last year,
13:58
Speaker 1: how far did you guys go?
13:59
Speaker 2: We're... Now you're... You're... I just.
14:02
Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Constructing little narratives. I'm not constructing narratives.
14:06
Speaker 1: I just don't think you can be a grown-up.
14:08
Speaker 2: You're changing.
14:09
Speaker 1: Let me throw this at you. And by the way,
14:10
Speaker 1: Drew Petskin was on our team first. It doesn't matter.
14:12
Speaker 1: Let me... Let me.
14:14
Speaker 2: Maybe I won't forget if you're remembering Drew Petskin was
14:16
Speaker 2: a position coach for you.
14:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm a grown-up. I know who's on my team, Zach. Well,
14:21
Speaker 1: you'd be.
14:21
Speaker 2: Surprised how many people don't.
14:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you right now. You could... No
14:25
Speaker 1: one's watching. No one's listening. You get to make this
14:27
Speaker 1: decision in the darkness. And somebody goes, right now, moving
14:33
Speaker 1: forward without any hurt feelings because Dan Campbell would go
14:35
Speaker 1: get another great job and be happy and everything would
14:38
Speaker 1: be great somewhere else. You can continue down the path
14:40
Speaker 1: you're on or you can just flip flop and Ben
14:44
Speaker 1: Johnson is your head coach. What are you doing?
14:46
Speaker 2: I'm taking Dan Campbell.
14:48
Speaker 1: You're a crazy person. I think Campbell's great. I just think,
14:53
Speaker 1: here's what I think of.
14:55
Speaker 2: What I want from my head coach is a guy
14:57
Speaker 2: that guys will play for. Not a guy that people,
15:00
Speaker 2: no one is going around saying, you know, Dan, I
15:03
Speaker 2: don't like what he's doing. I don't like how this
15:05
Speaker 2: is this or that or anything. I want my coordinators
15:07
Speaker 2: to be, I want that side of the ball to
15:09
Speaker 2: love them. I want them to be knowledgeable. I want
15:12
Speaker 2: what Dan Campbell is, and he's a leader of people.
15:15
Speaker 1: I think Dan Campbell is great. I've been saying that
15:17
Speaker 1: for years. But you started this conversation by undermining Ben Johnson.
15:24
Speaker 2: I didn't undermine anything.
15:25
Speaker 1: You undermined him.
15:27
Speaker 2: I did not.
15:28
Speaker 1: I just think it's sour grapes. I think the grapes
15:30
Speaker 1: are so sour that your lips are stuck inward. Like,
15:35
Speaker 1: I just... You're coming at.
15:37
Speaker 2: Me with more heat than you've ever come at me
15:39
Speaker 2: on this podcast, and I think you're afraid about Sunday.
15:42
Speaker 2: I think you're pretty, pretty scared, all right? You are
15:46
Speaker 2: showing right now as my favorite and something that I
15:50
Speaker 2: know about from my past years as a Lions fan.
15:52
Speaker 2: You're coming at me as a fan who's scared.
15:55
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, I'm not scared. Second of all,
15:58
Speaker 1: it's called I'm Worried, Zach, and it's not new to
16:03
Speaker 1: this week. I'm always worried. Listen to me.
16:07
Speaker 2: Confidence, Cy. Confidence is a much better color on you, Cy.
16:11
Speaker 2: I mean, you want to call me sour grapes? You
16:13
Speaker 2: got bitter cherries over there.
16:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was born with bitter cherries.
16:16
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. We've had some lovely conversations.
16:20
Speaker 2: Very jovial, very elevating. You're not always bitter.
16:24
Speaker 1: Not about football.
16:26
Speaker 2: Don't let him fool you. He's a sweetheart. He is
16:29
Speaker 2: a friggin' sweetheart.
16:30
Speaker 1: Listen to me. I'm not worried. I'm actually I think
16:34
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people nationally, locally, media who are
16:38
Speaker 1: like they're worried about this stretch. I'm not worried about
16:43
Speaker 1: it at all. Now, does that mean I'm confident that
16:44
Speaker 1: we're going to run through these teams? I just think
16:46
Speaker 1: it's fun. I think before, I think people are forgetting.
16:51
Speaker 1: Like if you'd have told everyone, hey, before the season starts,
16:55
Speaker 1: you're 6-0. You're second in the league in time of possession.
16:59
Speaker 1: You're first in the league in turnover margin. You have
17:01
Speaker 1: the best defense in the league. You have potentially the
17:03
Speaker 1: best special teams in the league. And the offense just
17:06
Speaker 1: is not figuring it out. But you are 6-0 and
17:09
Speaker 1: you're about to face all these great teams. Would you
17:11
Speaker 1: sign up for that? every fan signs up for that
17:14
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't like what what given the expectations going
17:19
Speaker 1: into the year and how strong the division is I
17:22
Speaker 1: think it's going to I think everybody also assumes that
17:24
Speaker 1: what has happened in every game is automatically going to
17:27
Speaker 1: be the game flow of this game and they're never
17:29
Speaker 1: going to figure it out and I don't know man
17:31
Speaker 1: I'm not a football coach I never played but I
17:34
Speaker 1: do I do think it is going to be really
17:38
Speaker 1: fun to see how the defense stacks up and there
17:42
Speaker 1: is some element of when you need it, right? Because
17:47
Speaker 1: I think right now this defense and special teams have
17:50
Speaker 1: been so good that as the offense figures it out,
17:54
Speaker 1: there's a part of like, Hey, control the clock, control
17:57
Speaker 1: the ball. Don't lose it. And let, let these power
18:01
Speaker 1: units do their job. And let's, let's work as a
18:03
Speaker 1: three phase football team. Now, if you go into Detroit and,
18:07
Speaker 1: and you fall down 14 points and all of a
18:10
Speaker 1: sudden you need, or, or they score first or whatever
18:13
Speaker 1: the situation may be, you know, urgency sometimes lets you
18:18
Speaker 1: throw a little caution to the wind and perhaps some
18:21
Speaker 1: caution to the wind, uh, sets the sale a little bit.
18:26
Speaker 1: And I just, I think everybody thinks exactly what you've
18:30
Speaker 1: seen so far is exactly what you're going to see
18:33
Speaker 1: these next four games, only it's better teams. And perhaps
18:36
Speaker 1: that is the case. But I'm not going to be
18:38
Speaker 1: there until I see it. Because there's too many good
18:42
Speaker 1: football players on that side of the ball. The head
18:44
Speaker 1: coach is on that side of the ball. He's always
18:47
Speaker 1: been good. I just think there's too much over there
18:51
Speaker 1: to assume that we can't get going the right direction
18:55
Speaker 1: in some important games.
18:57
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you feel that way. What do you
18:59
Speaker 2: want me to say?
19:01
Speaker 1: I'm just responding to your accusation of me being scared.
19:05
Speaker 2: Oh, we went back. We went all the way back
19:07
Speaker 2: to that.
19:07
Speaker 1: You just, it was like 45 seconds ago, a minute
19:09
Speaker 1: and a half ago at most.
19:10
Speaker 2: 45 seconds ago. You're now, these, I don't know if
19:13
Speaker 2: these bitter grapes have turned fermented in some way because
19:18
Speaker 2: now you're talking drunk. 45 seconds. What is happening, Cy?
19:22
Speaker 1: I just think, I think it is also, Such a
19:28
Speaker 1: like because everybody's looking forward to the Bills, the Niners,
19:31
Speaker 1: the Packers. There's a Bears game to end the season.
19:34
Speaker 1: I know you guys have big games coming up. This
19:37
Speaker 1: is quietly an exceptionally pivotal game for both teams.
19:41
Speaker 2: 100 percent. Like you said earlier, you've got the best
19:44
Speaker 2: defense going against potentially the best offense. And um it's
19:47
Speaker 2: a division game you've already won two division games that's
19:50
Speaker 2: what i'm saying one division game but we've won it
19:53
Speaker 2: i mean this is for this is a big swing
19:55
Speaker 2: in the division as far as uh as far as
19:58
Speaker 2: standings go and and and and what it looks like
20:02
Speaker 2: moving forward It's a huge game. It's a huge game.
20:06
Speaker 1: Also, just in each of these teams' individual paths, I
20:10
Speaker 1: think the Vikings, in theory, could more handle the adversity
20:14
Speaker 1: of a loss because you only moved to 6-1. But
20:17
Speaker 1: the upside for them with a win is 7-0 and
20:20
Speaker 1: 3-0 in the division, which is wild. That is a
20:23
Speaker 1: wild start to the season.
20:24
Speaker 2: That's fantastic, yeah.
20:26
Speaker 1: The upside for the Lions is beating the top team
20:30
Speaker 1: currently in the division... boosting yourself. The downside, if you
20:34
Speaker 1: drop this game, because who do you have after us?
20:36
Speaker 1: Who are the next couple games?
20:38
Speaker 2: After you, next week we have Miami on Monday night,
20:41
Speaker 2: and then I believe it's the Germany game.
20:43
Speaker 1: And then... Where do you guys got in Germany? New England.
20:47
Speaker 1: That's a tough game. If you drop this one, you're
20:52
Speaker 1: now a game away, a mistake away from 500 in
20:56
Speaker 1: an NFC that projects to be because of the north
21:01
Speaker 1: and the west pretty top heavy i mean you can
21:05
Speaker 1: see a situation where it is 10 and 7 is
21:09
Speaker 1: the worst team that gets in from a wild card
21:12
Speaker 1: standpoint if not 11 and 6 i mean this maybe
21:15
Speaker 1: it doesn't land there but this thing could really go
21:16
Speaker 1: off to the races so I think a lot to
21:19
Speaker 1: gain for the Vikings, a lot to gain for the Lions,
21:22
Speaker 1: but also a significant amount to lose for the Lions.
21:25
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a significant amount to lose for
21:28
Speaker 2: the Vikings as well, because if you do drop this
21:30
Speaker 2: game against, as you put it, the team that no
21:33
Speaker 2: one cares about going into as far as, you know,
21:36
Speaker 2: you got Buffalo coming in, you got Green Bay coming in,
21:38
Speaker 2: you got all these good games coming up, and these
21:40
Speaker 2: are your first big tests. If you drop the one
21:42
Speaker 2: that nobody is adding to that list... that could affect
21:47
Speaker 2: some transition. You could have a, that could be the
21:48
Speaker 2: beginning of a four games, four game drop. Now, all
21:51
Speaker 2: of a sudden you're, you're six and four.
21:53
Speaker 1: I think one thing we can agree on Zach is
21:56
Speaker 1: locker rooms are interesting places. They're weird. They're unique. Like,
22:00
Speaker 1: I think I've talked about this a lot on this
22:04
Speaker 1: show and other shows, the cliches that come out of
22:07
Speaker 1: locker rooms is we make fun of them a lot,
22:12
Speaker 1: but I think ultimately the, Some of it is media speak,
22:16
Speaker 1: but some of it is believed. You know, like when
22:19
Speaker 1: you hear a team go, nobody believed in this. It's like, well,
22:21
Speaker 1: you were picked to finish first in your division. So yeah,
22:23
Speaker 1: it's like it's not crazy. You're holding a trophy right now.
22:27
Speaker 1: But I do think those places are their own culture,
22:32
Speaker 1: their own like almost like a bomb shelter from the world.
22:35
Speaker 1: And this really unique thing happens. We saw it a
22:38
Speaker 1: couple of years ago when they were winning all those
22:40
Speaker 1: one possession games when Kirk was the quarterback. When you
22:42
Speaker 1: start doing a thing and then it happens a few
22:45
Speaker 1: times and you start believing that that's what's going to happen,
22:49
Speaker 1: any sport, right? It just compiles and you start to
22:54
Speaker 1: believe that's who you are. So the other thing that
22:56
Speaker 1: the Vikings have at stake here that they could gain
23:00
Speaker 1: or let float by is they've kind of won ugly
23:04
Speaker 1: in a lot of people's eyes through these first six games.
23:07
Speaker 1: Like if you go... beat Detroit by whatever means you
23:10
Speaker 1: have a big kick return the defense gets a couple
23:13
Speaker 1: turnovers the offense squeaks a couple drives through like you
23:15
Speaker 1: win like that again and then you get to play
23:18
Speaker 1: the bills and hell something crazy like you win that
23:21
Speaker 1: one as well and now all of a sudden you're
23:23
Speaker 1: eight no everybody in that locker room looks around and
23:25
Speaker 1: goes well this is how it works And then all
23:28
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're in December and January and you're
23:30
Speaker 1: looking around. It doesn't matter who's on the other side
23:31
Speaker 1: of the field and that you're down six in the
23:33
Speaker 1: fourth quarter. You go, well, this is what we do.
23:36
Speaker 1: We're comfortable in this place. And I think there has
23:40
Speaker 1: to be a little credit, you know, despite the people
23:44
Speaker 1: putting the Vikings 10th and 11th on their power rankings
23:47
Speaker 1: across the national media. There has to be a little
23:49
Speaker 1: credit given to this team's ability to like, no matter
23:54
Speaker 1: who you're playing, oh, you're down seven in the fourth quarter. Oh,
23:57
Speaker 1: you're down 20 against the Packers. Oh, it's not going
23:59
Speaker 1: the right way and you need a goal line stop. Like,
24:02
Speaker 1: I do think that could snowball.
24:05
Speaker 2: Yes, but on the flip side, you lose to Detroit,
24:07
Speaker 2: you lose to Buffalo. They're looking around and they're like,
24:09
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, we're playing good teams. This is who
24:11
Speaker 2: we are. Yeah, sure.
24:13
Speaker 1: That's the other side of it, Zach.
24:18
Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure that was out there.
24:20
Speaker 1: I understand how I just I.
24:22
Speaker 2: Just I just wanted to make sure that was out there.
24:24
Speaker 2: So everybody knew that like forever, you know, I just
24:28
Speaker 2: want I'm the other side of the coin. I'm that
24:30
Speaker 2: beautiful bird on the back of a quarter, baby.
24:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. Are you saying that because the bird has a
24:35
Speaker 1: short memory and you want to be the guy who
24:37
Speaker 1: forgets about Ben Johnson on your team? What do you
24:39
Speaker 1: mean by bird? What's the bird metaphor?
24:42
Speaker 2: George Washington is on one side.
24:43
Speaker 1: I understand. I just wanted to bring Ben Johnson back up.
24:47
Speaker 1: Tell me.
24:48
Speaker 2: I picked tails because Lions have tails. And if the
24:52
Speaker 2: Vikings had tails, they would tag it between their legs
24:54
Speaker 2: and run home before they even get to Detroit.
24:57
Speaker 1: The Vikings defense.
24:58
Speaker 2: Because they're scared, just like you.
25:00
Speaker 1: Have given up three points in the fourth quarter this year.
25:03
Speaker 2: Three points.
25:05
Speaker 1: KG, Kevin Garnett once famously said, come fourth quarter, bring
25:10
Speaker 1: it to the ticket. Something like that. I'm probably butchering it.
25:13
Speaker 1: But that feels right. And.
25:16
Speaker 2: Okay.
25:17
Speaker 1: Get this football team to a fourth quarter. Let the
25:21
Speaker 1: offense roll a little bit and get this football team
25:24
Speaker 1: to a fourth quarter and let's see what happens.
25:26
Speaker 2: I mean, that's when the offense... The second half is
25:28
Speaker 2: when the Lions' offense is also the best. That's when
25:29
Speaker 2: we're putting up the most points.
25:31
Speaker 1: Okay, well, bring the heat. Let's see what happens.
25:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you bring the heat. You bring the heat.
25:35
Speaker 1: I have the heat. I'm... Clearly ready to give you
25:40
Speaker 1: some of the heat. We'll do two versions of this.
25:45
Speaker 1: The first one, if the Lions.
25:46
Speaker 2: Both sides of the coin.
25:48
Speaker 1: If the Lions... You are a bird brain. If the
25:52
Speaker 1: Lions win this Sunday, it will look like what?
25:59
Speaker 2: As far as how the game goes?
26:00
Speaker 1: When the game's over, what will be the story of
26:02
Speaker 1: the game? If the Lions have won, why will they
26:06
Speaker 1: have won?
26:06
Speaker 2: The story of the game is one unit, either your
26:10
Speaker 2: offense or our defense, is going to outperform expectation. I
26:16
Speaker 2: think that both our offense and your defense is coming
26:20
Speaker 2: ready to play because that's what we're going to put
26:24
Speaker 2: the chips in with always is our offense. And you
26:26
Speaker 2: guys are going to do the same with your defense.
26:28
Speaker 2: They're coming prepared to play. Whoever wins this game, it
26:33
Speaker 2: is going to be because our defense continues to improve
26:37
Speaker 2: as it has, or as you put it, your offense
26:41
Speaker 2: squeaks out some drives and gets it done, which I
26:46
Speaker 2: don't think is going to happen. I, yeah, the other
26:50
Speaker 2: interesting factor is the special teams. Mm-hmm.
26:54
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys had an, I believe it was
26:56
Speaker 1: an old Viking, DJ Wanam, who saved Dan Campbell from
26:59
Speaker 1: a press nightmare with that fingertip on the football. Was
27:03
Speaker 1: that DJ Wanam?
27:04
Speaker 2: It was DJ Wanam.
27:05
Speaker 1: DJ Wanam!
27:08
Speaker 2: He's been so good.
27:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:10
Speaker 2: He's been outstanding.
27:13
Speaker 1: I have this habit of remembering who was on my team.
27:15
Speaker 1: I remember who was on my team. I do understand
27:18
Speaker 1: who used to be on my team.
27:19
Speaker 2: I remember who was on your team, too. I know
27:21
Speaker 2: a lot about the Vikings.
27:22
Speaker 1: I think there's a chance.
27:23
Speaker 2: I remember who's in my division because I'm a fan.
27:26
Speaker 2: I know who's, I know what the enemy is. I
27:28
Speaker 2: know exactly what's supposed to be going on.
27:32
Speaker 1: I think to your point, your face is too close
27:36
Speaker 1: to the camera and I hate it. I think there
27:42
Speaker 1: is a possibility that it is co-neutralization. It's neutralization across
27:49
Speaker 1: the board. And the defining factor is the special teams.
27:54
Speaker 2: Sure.
27:55
Speaker 1: And if the defining factor... That's how a vote goes.
27:58
Speaker 2: If you have three sections, the best two win. That's
28:01
Speaker 2: how it goes.
28:02
Speaker 1: And then I'm feeling pretty good. We got the best
28:04
Speaker 1: kicker in the league. We got the best return man
28:06
Speaker 1: in the league. We might have a pro bowler just
28:09
Speaker 1: from being a blocker on kick coverage. This DJ Dallas dude, unbelievable.
28:16
Speaker 1: He is unbelievable. Yeah. So this special teams group, if
28:20
Speaker 1: it comes down to special teams group, I'm pushing my
28:22
Speaker 1: chips in on our football team.
28:27
Speaker 2: I hope you do, because I'll push my chips in
28:29
Speaker 2: against that all day long.
28:30
Speaker 1: On your special teams unit?
28:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will. I think you can say you have
28:35
Speaker 2: the best kicker in the league.
28:37
Speaker 1: We do have the best kicker in the league.
28:38
Speaker 2: We have the biggest, biggest, most consistent leg in the league.
28:43
Speaker 1: I don't even think that's right.
28:44
Speaker 2: Of course you don't, because all you see is purple
28:46
Speaker 2: and yellow. You're like... You see Fry Kids from McDonald's.
28:50
Speaker 2: Just those purple and yellow mops everywhere. Rah, rah, rah.
28:53
Speaker 1: Who's going to win this division?
28:55
Speaker 2: The Lions.
28:56
Speaker 1: The Lions. You're certain of that?
28:58
Speaker 2: I push my chips in on it, yeah. I already have.
29:01
Speaker 1: You believe that... It is really weird that all of
29:05
Speaker 1: these fan bases have their hopes built into this. We're like...
29:09
Speaker 1: And it's not like one of the groups is aging out.
29:13
Speaker 1: That's kind of the super... special part of it. Jordan
29:18
Speaker 1: Love is young. That defense is really young over there.
29:22
Speaker 1: They have a young coach. Jared Goff is still in
29:25
Speaker 1: his prime. Jameer Gibbs is really young. The wide receivers
29:28
Speaker 1: are young. Amon Ra is young. The defense is not
29:31
Speaker 1: great or even good, but they're young, right? Dan Campbell
29:35
Speaker 1: is not. an elder coach.
29:36
Speaker 2: We've got three levels. We've got building blocks on all
29:38
Speaker 2: three levels.
29:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm saying you're young. This isn't a new thing.
29:41
Speaker 1: It's not like you're at the end of the run.
29:43
Speaker 1: This isn't Brett Favre throwing the interception against the Giants
29:46
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, well, that was kind of it. Or
29:48
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers and Devontae Adams texting about the last dance.
29:53
Speaker 1: The Bears, Ben Johnson, all these young players, Caleb Williams
29:56
Speaker 1: is just coming into his prime. And over on this
29:58
Speaker 1: side of the ball, I mean, you have, you know,
30:01
Speaker 1: Jefferson's in his prime. Addison's young. You know, Hawkinson's older,
30:04
Speaker 1: but the O-line is youngish, primish for the most part.
30:08
Speaker 1: A couple elder statesmen. The defense is so young. They
30:12
Speaker 1: are so, so young. And the special teams is incredibly young.
30:16
Speaker 2: What's your contract situation like?
30:19
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know stuff like that. You
30:21
Speaker 1: know who's on your team, but not how long. You
30:22
Speaker 1: mean like my personal contract to do this show? I
30:25
Speaker 1: got to tell you, it's not good enough to go
30:26
Speaker 1: through this conversation. More than two times. We can't play
30:29
Speaker 1: each other in the playoffs, I can tell you that much.
30:32
Speaker 1: I'm going to need a new contract situation. It's just
30:36
Speaker 1: fascinating because lost in the who's going to come out
30:40
Speaker 1: of potentially the best division in football this year with
30:43
Speaker 1: how competitive this could be, it's also like, oh, they're
30:46
Speaker 1: all just getting started. What is this going to look
30:48
Speaker 1: like for the next few years? It's pretty unusual.
30:53
Speaker 2: I would agree. It's certainly unusual, but that, you know,
30:57
Speaker 2: to be the best division in football and to have
31:00
Speaker 2: every divisional game feel like a playoff game going in. Now,
31:05
Speaker 2: if it goes that way during whatever, but going into
31:09
Speaker 2: the game, it feels like this is a playoff game.
31:13
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. I love the competition
31:16
Speaker 2: of it. I love.
31:17
Speaker 1: And you now know, you now can draw that comparison
31:20
Speaker 1: because you guys have been in the playoffs.
31:23
Speaker 2: Twice.
31:24
Speaker 1: Twice. Pretty big deal.
31:27
Speaker 2: And you know what? You know what I love about
31:29
Speaker 2: the Vikings? And I just, it's that we can relate
31:32
Speaker 2: over it is as far as this best division in
31:34
Speaker 2: football goes, we're the only two teams who don't have
31:37
Speaker 2: a Lombardi.
31:38
Speaker 1: That's true. I don't, I mean, I think we've had
31:41
Speaker 1: walked different paths just to be fair.
31:43
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're in Minneapolis.
31:45
Speaker 1: We're in Detroit. They're, they're going to be different paths.
31:47
Speaker 1: I mean, you've won almost nothing for the entirety of
31:50
Speaker 1: your entire history. You even told me you think the
31:52
Speaker 1: franchise was probably cursed and, You know, we did.
31:55
Speaker 2: I didn't say that it was cursed. I simply told
31:57
Speaker 2: you about the curse. And, you know.
32:01
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of saying you're cursed.
32:04
Speaker 2: We won world championships. We have never won a Super Bowl,
32:07
Speaker 2: but there are championship banners in our stadium.
32:10
Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be fun if the whole division goes to
32:14
Speaker 1: the playoffs?
32:15
Speaker 2: Has that ever happened? Can that happen?
32:17
Speaker 1: It's never happened. Not in this realignment. I do not
32:19
Speaker 1: believe it's ever happened. You know, and I think with
32:22
Speaker 1: the way you beat each other up, it would be
32:24
Speaker 1: pretty hard because, you know, with the Rams starting the
32:30
Speaker 1: way they started, it's more possible. But that Quentin Nelson
32:34
Speaker 1: going to the Seahawks and the way they looked against
32:36
Speaker 1: the Chiefs, I really don't see them losing less than
32:40
Speaker 1: 11 games or winning less than 11 games.
32:45
Speaker 2: They're bringing back all their backs and everything. I mean,
32:48
Speaker 2: Quentin Nelson's going to open some holes. Yeah, they're going
32:50
Speaker 2: to be a good team.
32:50
Speaker 1: I don't know how the math works out, but, yeah,
32:53
Speaker 1: I mean, if every one of these teams gets in,
32:56
Speaker 1: which is, I believe, a mathematical potential, like, it can happen.
33:02
Speaker 1: How fun would it be if they all get in,
33:04
Speaker 1: and then the two that, you know, they all kind
33:06
Speaker 1: of get through, and they're the four teams left in
33:09
Speaker 1: the division? That, to me, what a fun football thing
33:14
Speaker 1: that would be.
33:15
Speaker 2: Oh, let's all get together on Lake Michigan and just
33:18
Speaker 2: watch it. Neutral ground.
33:21
Speaker 1: That's not, it's literally called Lake Michigan. That's not, I
33:23
Speaker 1: know it touches the other state, but it's not, that's
33:26
Speaker 1: not neutral grounds. Listen, I'm not, I'm not convinced it's
33:29
Speaker 1: going to be Lake Michigan when it gets there. I'd
33:31
Speaker 1: love it to be Lake Minnesota. Is that what we're doing?
33:34
Speaker 1: Sign me up. Zach, why don't you, why don't you
33:37
Speaker 1: go add a couple of your tears to the shores
33:39
Speaker 1: of Lake Minnesota after this Sunday's game? Because I know
33:42
Speaker 1: you're worried and I know you want to squeeze a
33:44
Speaker 1: few out.
33:45
Speaker 2: Why do you want more lakes when the land of
33:49
Speaker 2: 10,000 lakes is so clearly majority man-made lakes?
33:53
Speaker 1: They're not. If the man is Paul Bunyan. That's not
33:58
Speaker 1: a man.
33:59
Speaker 2: That's a mythological figure. You're going to tell me Babe
34:02
Speaker 2: the Blue Oxen.
34:03
Speaker 1: It's his footprints. That's what created the lakes. He's not
34:07
Speaker 1: that big. They're not man-made lakes.
34:11
Speaker 2: DeForest Buckner just got traded to the 49ers.
34:13
Speaker 1: You're a buffoon. That sucked. I shouldn't have called you
34:16
Speaker 1: a buffoon. But I just didn't like the man-made lakes thing.
34:20
Speaker 1: You can talk a lot of trash, Zach, but it's
34:22
Speaker 1: just like us. You lay off our lakes and I'll
34:25
Speaker 1: lay off your cars that are on fire on a
34:27
Speaker 1: regular street that nobody lives on. We stay out of
34:30
Speaker 1: what each other is known for, okay?
34:32
Speaker 2: I mean, that's more of a how people take care
34:35
Speaker 2: of their things.
34:35
Speaker 1: You lay off our lakes and I'll lay off... I'm
34:39
Speaker 1: going to let it go. I'm going to let it go.
34:40
Speaker 1: I'm going to let it go. contractually, I'm going to
34:45
Speaker 1: let it go.
34:46
Speaker 2: Well, you know what? You've got plenty of options to
34:47
Speaker 2: go fill those with tears.
34:48
Speaker 1: Enjoy your spaghetti sandwiches.
34:51
Speaker 2: I care about you. Have you had?
34:53
Speaker 1: No, I haven't had a spaghetti sandwich. I used to
34:55
Speaker 1: put spaghetti on the garlic toast and then bite the
34:58
Speaker 1: garlic toast.
34:58
Speaker 2: Yes, that's very good. That's very good. But I'll tell you,
35:01
Speaker 2: you put some spaghetti on like Wonder Bread or a
35:04
Speaker 2: soft white bread, it's real good.
35:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, does it just taste like bread and spaghetti at
35:08
Speaker 1: the same time? It's not like a heat.
35:10
Speaker 2: You know what?
35:10
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm I don't know what this
35:13
Speaker 1: energy is, Zach. I think you're right. I think I
35:17
Speaker 1: am a little keyed up. What's the score going to be,
35:19
Speaker 1: Zach Martina?
35:20
Speaker 2: Well, you will first because you're away and I think
35:23
Speaker 2: that you should and then I will end. Oh, guests first.
35:28
Speaker 1: We're a polite show. We like to have the guests
35:30
Speaker 1: go first.
35:30
Speaker 2: Well, technically, you're going to be the guests in our house.
35:33
Speaker 1: I understand, but this show is my house and you're
35:36
Speaker 1: in my house and you're the guests, so guests first.
35:40
Speaker 2: Oh, boy. Well, I do think it's going to be
35:44
Speaker 2: a historic game. I do think it's going to be
35:47
Speaker 2: historic in that the Lions put up 56, and for
35:51
Speaker 2: the first time in history, Minnesota will get negative points.
35:55
Speaker 1: I'm going to refrain from making a prediction. I just
35:58
Speaker 1: think it's unbecoming.
36:01
Speaker 2: Go back to the archives.
36:04
Speaker 1: Zach, I love you a lot.
36:05
Speaker 2: I love you too, buddy.
36:07
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing the show. I will not be
36:08
Speaker 1: speaking to you on Sunday. And, uh, I just, here's
36:12
Speaker 1: the thing. I wanted to text you during that Dan
36:14
Speaker 1: Campbell thing, but if somebody would text me during that, like,
36:17
Speaker 1: and I wasn't even going to like make fun of you.
36:18
Speaker 1: I was just going to be like, what is going
36:20
Speaker 1: on here? But if somebody would.
36:22
Speaker 2: Exactly the question that was going on in my house,
36:24
Speaker 2: my wife and I were like, what? He's at the 20.
36:26
Speaker 2: What's what's going on.
36:27
Speaker 1: If somebody would have, if he would have made it,
36:29
Speaker 1: would you have still thought it was a bad decision? Yeah. Okay. Well,
36:34
Speaker 1: at least, at least you're not like, you don't have
36:37
Speaker 1: some weird football Stockholm syndrome.
36:40
Speaker 2: No, that would have been that. That was just a
36:42
Speaker 2: bad call. The game wasn't on the line. It wasn't
36:44
Speaker 2: like you got to go or you're going to win.
36:46
Speaker 2: Like you're going to lose that. That call was that
36:50
Speaker 2: was rough.
36:51
Speaker 1: Well, I respect and appreciate you will speak after the
36:53
Speaker 1: game is over and after all the emotions have come
36:56
Speaker 1: and gone because I'm not a big trash talk guy.
36:59
Speaker 2: Do you want to you just listen to this episode?
37:02
Speaker 2: And you tell me you're not a trash talker.
37:04
Speaker 1: I'm not like, here's the thing. I don't mind a
37:06
Speaker 1: little trash talk going into it. I just don't like
37:08
Speaker 1: reveling in other people's disappointment. That's not fun.
37:12
Speaker 2: Karmically, I don't believe in it either.
37:14
Speaker 1: I think that. It's not fun. I think we all
37:16
Speaker 1: want our team to win. And I like if my
37:19
Speaker 1: team loses, I'm bummed. And that is that sucks enough.
37:23
Speaker 1: I don't need somebody to come in and go. It's
37:26
Speaker 1: not fun.
37:26
Speaker 2: People that talk trash to traditionally and historically cannot take
37:30
Speaker 2: being talked trash to the best trash talkers cannot take it.
37:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also traditionally the best trash talkers are not
37:38
Speaker 1: fulfilled as human beings emotionally. So I don't want to
37:42
Speaker 1: do that. I hope we win. I hope you don't win.
37:46
Speaker 1: I hope it's fun for me and I'm not going
37:47
Speaker 1: to pile on you. The best of luck to.
37:51
Speaker 2: Everything you said, but the opposite for me.
37:53
Speaker 1: Okay, well... Thank you, Zach Martina, for joining us. Hey,
37:58
Speaker 1: and thank you to all you guys for listening to
38:00
Speaker 1: our podcast feed. While you're here, make sure you give
38:02
Speaker 1: us a good review. Sure would help us out a lot. Finally,
38:06
Speaker 1: a huge shout out to Ticketmaster, the official ticket marketplace
38:10
Speaker 1: of the Minnesota Vikings, for helping make this show happen.
38:13
Speaker 1: Enjoy the game, everybody.