Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Larissa Akrawi on Member-Owned Group Captives and Betting on Yourself

Transcript

Larissa Akrawi on Member-Owned Group Captives and Betting on Yourself · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. As you listen today, let one
0:17
idea shape what you do next. My name is Anthony Kotis Bodi
0:20
and today's guest is Larissa Akrawi, Senior Vice President
0:24
and Captive Executive at Captive Resources.
0:28
They are based in Atasca, Illinois and help mid sized
0:32
employers cut insurance costs by joining member owned group
0:36
captives. The firm partners with 1500
0:39
broker offices supporting more than 50 captives, 7500 member
0:44
companies and stewards over $5.5 billion in written premium.
0:50
It is known as the top consultant in the group captive
0:53
arena and posts a 98% member retention rate.
0:58
Over 27 years, Larissa learned every angle of captive insurance
1:03
supporting the launch of new programs including the first
1:05
Medical Stop Loss Captive, which was used as the catalyst in
1:09
developing 9 benefits programs and ultimately taking the reins
1:14
of a 32 year old worker's comp captive.
1:17
Today, Larissa runs a specialized program serving 151
1:21
staffing companies nationwide using deep loss analysis, Boots
1:26
on the ground risk and nurse triage to cut claims and lower
1:30
premiums. But before we get into all that
1:33
good stuff, today's episode is brought to you by my company,
1:36
Add Back Benefits Agency. Listen, if you run a business,
1:40
you are likely stuck in the cycle of rising insurance
1:43
premiums. You're paying more, but your
1:45
team is getting less and many people can't afford coverage at
1:48
all. We do things differently.
1:50
We offer a solution that provides your employees with
1:53
unlimited access to doctors, therapists, and prescriptions.
1:57
That's always free for them to use.
1:59
But here's where you really need to pay attention.
2:01
Unlike every other employee benefit out there, our program
2:05
puts more money into your company's bank account.
2:08
As an example, we recently helped the client increase net
2:11
profits by $900 per employee per year.
2:15
Gains like that can change how a business is valued.
2:18
Results vary, but the consultation is free.
2:21
Imagine being the advisor that becomes a hero by introducing
2:24
this to your clients. See if they qualify today at AD
2:27
back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
2:30
today, Senior Vice President of Captain Resources.
2:33
Larissa, thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
2:36
Thanks for having me, I'm so excited to be here.
2:39
So early in your life, you went to junior college and you were
2:42
working in restaurants like a lot of young folks do.
2:45
But then you took a receptionist position at an insurance agency
2:50
that would eventually open up all kinds of doors for you.
2:54
What skills or habits helped you eventually move from answering
2:59
phones there to more substantive insurance work?
3:04
I think it was more I asked a lot of questions, right?
3:08
So I was answering phones, I was filing at the time we did batch
3:12
printing. So people who are old insurance
3:14
folks remember what that was. So I, I was basically
3:19
responsible for the spool printing.
3:21
It would print up everything and deliver it to all the customer
3:24
service folks in the office and I would just read everything.
3:28
I was inquisitive. I asked a lot of questions and I
3:32
was fortunate in that people around me gave me their time.
3:35
So I did have a lot of early mentors that really took the
3:39
time to explain things to me. And then eventually the
3:44
marketing manager needed an assistant.
3:48
He asked if I would come on full time and help him with
3:50
marketing. I didn't have any idea what that
3:54
meant or what I was doing. He taught me a ton.
3:58
So I think it was really two things.
4:00
One wanting to learn, but also having those resources of people
4:07
who were willing to to teach. You were curious and you had
4:11
great mentors. So I love this story because
4:14
this is an example of, you know, for some skills, a lot of folks
4:18
go to college, right? They, they spend time
4:20
university. There's a lot of debt involved
4:22
there, you know, trying to pick up these skills.
4:25
Like, yeah, I mean you went to junior college, but like all of
4:28
your like technical experience came, yeah, came from on the job
4:33
training. Yeah, I didn't have the
4:35
opportunity to go to a big school.
4:36
I actually had to pay for my junior college on a credit card
4:40
of all things. And, and so it was, it was a
4:43
tough situation, but I knew I needed to have some type of
4:49
piece of paper, right? Like a lot of places want that
4:53
piece of paper. So I did my two years and I was
4:56
on my own. I moved out at 17, so I was
4:59
working 2 jobs. I was trying to do this junior
5:02
college deal. When I finished my 2 years, I
5:06
was learning more out in the working world than I was sitting
5:10
in a classroom. So that's when I decided to
5:12
really pursue the insurance industry rather than another two
5:18
years at, you know, a university.
5:21
And so you got pulled into helping with marketing at this
5:25
job and did you take to marketing as well as you took to
5:28
insurance? I did and it was marketing.
5:31
When we talk about marketing and insurance, what happens is the
5:35
sales people, they go out and they try to find the clients,
5:39
they bring them to us in the in the office, we put together the
5:43
submissions, we go out to market, right.
5:45
So when we say marketing, it's not like business marketing that
5:48
we're accustomed to it in this realm.
5:51
It's more your packaging together submissions to go to
5:57
different carriers to get quotes from the carriers, put together
6:01
a proposal, you have to present that proposal to the client.
6:04
They select which option they want to go with.
6:07
So in that I learned all about, you know, carriers.
6:10
I learned all about different markets, who does certain kinds
6:14
of coverages, who don't. He recommended that I go take
6:18
some classes. So I took us some insurance
6:21
classes. I got licensed as an insurance
6:24
broker. So it was just honestly just
6:28
those little steps that at the time, I didn't realize where
6:33
they were taking me. I was just happy to do good
6:37
work. I was just happy to, you know,
6:38
to be involved and engaged and have people come to me and ask
6:42
me questions. It it was, it was really cool.
6:46
So I just embraced it. What kind of insurance were you
6:49
doing at the time? Property casualty.
6:51
So we did a lot of companies, you know, some of our trucking,
6:58
it's any, any commercial type of risk.
7:01
OK. And then how did the opportunity
7:04
to join Captive Resources come about?
7:07
So I, in insurance, there's just a finite number of paths that
7:13
you can go, right? You can become a salesperson,
7:17
you can work up to, you know, some kind of management role
7:21
within an agency or within an insurance carrier.
7:26
I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I knew that
7:29
the small agency I work for, there weren't really a lot of
7:32
future career development opportunities for me.
7:35
So I called up a head hunter. He sent me on three interviews.
7:40
One was another smaller insurance agency, 1 was a large
7:43
nationwide brand downtown Chicago.
7:45
And then the third was captive resources.
7:49
I interviewed with the two founding members, the two
7:53
founding owners of the company, and I immediately knew like this
7:57
was something I wanted to do. I could, I didn't know what a
7:59
captive was. So that was even more enticement
8:04
for me to like, let's try this, right?
8:06
I don't know what I'm doing. So you might as well like try
8:09
it. And I knew I needed to be here.
8:11
They just had a great culture. We had, I mean, probably like 40
8:15
something employees at the time. And I just really got a good
8:22
vibe from the the two founders of the company.
8:26
And then that was it, that I knew this was where I needed to
8:29
be. So it was really the two owners
8:31
that were like there, there was an energy to them that that plus
8:35
the fact that you're like, I have no idea what a captive is.
8:38
And you know how many months ago I didn't really know what
8:40
insurance was either. And so it.
8:42
Was about, it was about a year and a half after I started
8:46
really tinkering with insurance. I mean, I did come in as an
8:49
entry level employee. Like I didn't know anything
8:51
about anything. So I was entry level and at the
8:55
time we were such a small organization that the training
8:58
program was basically sink or swim, right?
9:00
You just figure it out as you go.
9:01
And I think that's the environment that I really do
9:06
well in. So it was it was a kind of a
9:10
perfect match. OK, so for those listening who
9:13
don't know what a captive is, think back to the 2728 years ago
9:17
when you first got started. What was the explanation that
9:20
helped you wrap your mind around it?
9:22
Help others get up to speed. So I mean, the, the easiest
9:25
definition I can give you kind of the high level elevator
9:28
definition, it's, it's an insurance company that provides
9:31
insurance to and is controlled by its owners.
9:35
So those are some pretty important words in that sentence
9:39
because it is insurance, right? We, we, we still want to be able
9:42
to manage the risk and the liability of, of the clients
9:47
that we serve. So it does provide insurance,
9:50
but it's also controlled by the owners of the captive.
9:53
What that means is that us a captive resources as an
9:56
independent consultant, we do not have a vote in in how the
10:01
captive, in the direction of the captive.
10:04
It's really the board members that control the direction of
10:08
the captive. Our job is to facilitate that on
10:10
behalf of the board. So when you think about how
10:14
insurance works, you know, these insurance carriers are making
10:18
billions and billions and billions of dollars.
10:22
And basically it's on the flow. They are collecting premiums,
10:27
they're holding premiums, they're investing premiums, and
10:30
they're gambling that they're not going to have to pay out
10:32
those claims on those premiums. Some of those claims, you know,
10:37
can last three, 5-7 years. So in the meantime, they're
10:41
sitting on that premium. They're earning investment
10:43
income. If they win the gamble, they
10:46
make profit, right? They're not paying out as much
10:48
as they collected. If they lose the gamble, they're
10:51
paying out more than what they collected.
10:53
But they've earned all that investment income throughout
10:55
those years that they sat on that premium.
10:59
What the captive does is puts the member in the driver's seat.
11:03
So the member's the one that is earning the investment income,
11:07
the member's the one that's recapturing that profit.
11:10
So best in class companies who find themselves paying well
11:15
beyond their premium or well beyond their claims for premium,
11:20
they're just making the insurance companies all that
11:22
profit, whereas they could be put in that in that seat and
11:27
recapture that profit. That's interesting.
11:31
So it's still insurance, right? But instead of paying all this
11:36
money to another third party that gets to sit on that money,
11:40
gets to collect the float from whatever profits happened from
11:43
the investments that they're doing.
11:45
Now, I'm one of the owners of this captive and it's still
11:50
being run in a similar way where those premiums are being
11:53
invested. Yes, OK.
11:56
And, and you're hoping for, you know, return on those monies,
12:00
but now you get to take part in whatever those profits are.
12:03
You're betting on yourself, right?
12:05
So in the traditional insurance environment, you know, we, we
12:11
say about 50% of your premium is going to the expenses of the
12:16
insurance company, right? They have to pay for offices,
12:18
they have to pay for employees, insurance, everything that they
12:22
need to pay for. And then the other 50% is what
12:26
gets invested to payout future losses in the captive.
12:31
We still have expenses. Our expenses are about 35% of
12:34
each dollar. So our expense overhead is much
12:37
lower on the member owned group captives because the captives
12:41
themselves do not have offices, they do not have employees.
12:44
Everything's done via service provider and we are a service
12:47
provider to the captive. So we can keep those expenses
12:50
low on behalf of the captive, but we also that other 65% that
12:57
gets paid in this premium goes to that member's investment
13:01
account. So if they outperform their
13:05
premium, you're exactly right. They're getting that investment
13:08
income and they get a dividend back out of the money that they
13:11
did not use for claims. So it's if if I'm a member of
13:14
the captive, it's going into my person like my company's
13:17
investment account or? You do an investment account.
13:20
So our captives are domiciled and grant Cayman the ones that
13:24
we we put together for for our members.
13:26
So it goes into a it's called the captive investors fund.
13:31
It is a almost $10 billion investment portfolio that was
13:37
created back in 1995 just for the investments for our captive
13:41
members. So we did structure it to
13:44
benefit a member owned group captives in that you really want
13:48
to have preservation of capital, you really want to have
13:52
diversity in your investment portfolio so that the members
13:57
are getting the best investment results on those dollars.
14:02
So are all captives? Do they contain multiple members
14:07
or it does it ever like one company?
14:10
Now ours do, so we don't do single parent captives.
14:14
The captives we consult for are all multiple member owned
14:17
groups. So we have a couple different
14:19
types of captives that we work with.
14:22
One of them would be a heterogeneous captive.
14:24
So what that means is that it's a member owned group captive
14:28
that has all different types of companies in it.
14:30
So they could have manufacturing, distribution,
14:34
retail, all housed in one captive where they all came
14:37
together, built their own program.
14:39
Then we have ones like the temporary staffing program that
14:42
that I handle where it is a specific captive for a specific
14:47
type of industry. We find that industries like
14:50
staffing, trucking, heavy construction, those industries
14:55
really have a difficult time out in the insurance marketplace
14:58
because they're difficult to control risk.
15:01
So when they those types of industries come to us to say,
15:04
hey, can you help us build captive, Those are the ones
15:08
where we say yes, but it's going to be with other staffing
15:12
companies or other trucking companies.
15:16
So it just depends on the type of risk.
15:18
We find that the ones that have a harder time are the ones that
15:22
really benefit from being in an industry specific group because
15:26
everybody has the same pain points and it just makes it
15:29
easier for the captive to run smoothly when they all
15:32
understand the same business. So Larissa, you specifically
15:36
work with staffing companies for workers comp and, and we're
15:41
going to get into more of the details on that cause I've got
15:44
some questions to better understand it.
15:45
But first of all, as we look at captive resources the a full
15:49
company, what types of insurance do you guys do in these
15:53
captives? So it depends on the captive.
15:56
So the one that I work with is only workers comp.
16:00
Our other captives do. So it's basically casualty,
16:05
right? GL auto worker's comp.
16:08
There's a separate property captive.
16:10
So you wouldn't really have your property in the same captive
16:13
that you have your GL work comp auto in.
16:16
So we have a property captive and then we also work with 9
16:19
different medical stop loss captives.
16:23
So it just, it just depends on what the captive, what the
16:28
captive decides it's risk tolerance is, right?
16:31
So each captive is really going to behave differently.
16:34
We have a second staffing captive that's different than
16:36
the stopping captive that I run because it's different owners,
16:40
right? So when we say the control is
16:42
with the board, the controls with the board, you're not going
16:45
to have the same processes or rules or growth objectives or
16:53
strategies because it's all different boards.
16:55
So it's going to be different depending on which captive you'd
17:00
want to be a part of. You mentioned that there's nine
17:02
different medical stop loss captives.
17:05
What is meant specifically by that?
17:08
So medical stop loss, those are employee benefits.
17:11
So companies that are doing employee benefits for their
17:14
benefits for their employees, the medical coverage, dental,
17:17
vision that that kind of stuff. Got it.
17:22
OK. So let's come back to
17:23
specifically what you work on. Larissa, how did you first get
17:28
involved with the workers comp and the staffing combo?
17:33
I was assigned, I was just, I started the company and they're
17:37
like, this is what you're going to do.
17:39
Again, there was really no full training program.
17:42
So I just learned everyday asked a lot of people a lot of
17:45
questions. I did start on two different
17:48
captives, the staffing captive and a nursing home captive,
17:52
which that really that other nursing home captive didn't last
17:56
long. It was kind of a, a tough
17:59
program, but it's always been the staffing captive and then
18:03
another program. So when we look at our bench
18:06
strength here at Captive Resources, we really want to
18:09
make sure that each captive team has enough levels of bench
18:12
strength. At the time we were small.
18:14
So being able to be a kind of, I would consider myself a lower
18:20
level support person on 2 captives was manageable.
18:25
So at one point, you know, I, it was only on the staffing
18:30
captive. They had come to me and asked me
18:32
if I'd be interested in helping to launch a heterogeneous
18:37
captive. So we did that.
18:40
That was evolution that was launched.
18:43
Oh gosh, I'm dating myself here. I feel like it's been, I think
18:47
it was in like 2000, early 2000, maybe 2001, 2002, we launched
18:53
Evolution. And that was amazing because
18:56
then I got to learn how these captives start right when I
18:59
already started on the staffing program and had already been
19:03
five years old. So to work on a captive from its
19:07
infancy and really, and it did bring me back to that marketing
19:12
experience that I had, because when you're starting a captive,
19:16
you have to collect up all the data from different potential
19:20
companies that want to be part of the founding fathers of the
19:24
captive. And then you have to send it off
19:26
to different carriers to figure out who wants to help you launch
19:30
this captive. You've got to go get them
19:33
licensed and set up in the Cayman, Cayman Island Monetary
19:36
Authority. So there's a lot of pieces that
19:38
I had no idea existed until I was offered to work on this
19:43
launch. So then I again, everything was
19:49
sure, I'll learn more. You know, it was kind of like I
19:51
was, whatever you guys want me to do, I will do, I'll learn
19:55
more. So then once we got that program
19:57
set up, we got it moved over to a different team.
20:02
They ran it from there. I was still on the staffing
20:06
program, worked on a couple other start-ups that ended up
20:09
not getting off the ground. And then they came to me with
20:12
the our first medical stop loss captive Coldwell Health.
20:17
And they said, Hey, do you want to work on this startup?
20:21
I'm like, I don't really know anything about employee
20:23
benefits, but sure worked with the team, the sales team again,
20:29
got that launched. It was just really cool to to
20:32
see them launch. And now that captive has, you
20:35
know, 300 companies in it. So when I was going through my
20:42
evolution here, I just didn't say no to things, right?
20:47
Like, I just want to, if it's something new that I can learn,
20:49
then sign me up. And then it just kind of went
20:53
from there. You mentioned that you worked on
20:56
a worse a nursing home captive, but and it didn't really work
21:00
out. What was the challenge there?
21:03
So that one was tough because it was an association down in
21:07
Kentucky, an association of nursing homes that wanted to
21:11
build their own captives. So we were brought in to help
21:15
them build that program. Small premiums, high losses.
21:19
So, you know, that makes a bit, it makes it difficult.
21:22
And when you have an association that runs that has the say in
21:26
the captive, I think there's just too many competing
21:30
interests when you get an association and then a captive
21:33
set up. And then you have, yeah, the
21:35
high losses, the low premium. Nursing homes is a tough
21:38
environment. You've got combative patients,
21:42
you've got back injuries, slip trip, fall injuries.
21:46
The GL was tough. So it just didn't make sense.
21:51
Just didn't pencil out. OK, so let's talk more
21:53
specifically about workers comp first.
21:55
At a baseline, explain what workers comp is.
21:58
So workers comp is taking care of your injured employees,
22:02
right? We, we have employees.
22:06
Thistle, the staffing captive, runs $6.5 billion of payroll
22:09
across the country. That's a lot of people working
22:12
in a lot of environments, especially in the staffing world
22:15
where you could have multiple clients, you know, different
22:21
folks in different environments at any given day of the week.
22:24
So it's very difficult for these staffing folks to, to really
22:28
manage those environments where they're putting their people.
22:32
We want to make sure that if we do have an injured employee,
22:35
that they are compensated for that injury, their medical bills
22:38
are taken care of, their time off work is taken care of.
22:41
So that's basically what the workers comp is.
22:43
It's it's it your employee injuries managing that.
22:48
If an employee gets injured on the job, there's some
22:50
compensation for lost wages, for, you know, for injuries, the
22:54
medical expenses. Medical expenses, you know, even
22:59
if it's somebody that got severely injured and they have a
23:02
family, so then it, you know, if they're the head of households,
23:05
then workers comp would then address loss of income to the
23:09
family. Again, medical benefits, if you
23:12
need shoulder, you know, surgery, any type of
23:15
amputations, I mean, we, we, I've seen so many different
23:19
types of workers comp injuries. So it's it runs the gamut.
23:23
So the benefit of somebody being a member of your captive in the
23:28
staffing space for workers comp is kind of what you were
23:31
touching on earlier rather than, you know, your operating
23:34
expenses being around the 50% mark.
23:37
They're at around 35%. So there's already like a 15%
23:40
quote, UN quote cost savings, but then that 65% that when
23:45
what's left over gets invested into the captives investment
23:50
vehicles, yeah. Yep, Yep.
23:53
And then you know, from a worker's comp standpoint, you
23:56
know, the name of the game is keeping your people safe, right?
23:59
If you have less injuries, then you are protecting those that
24:04
asset, you're protecting those dollars because you're not
24:07
having any injuries. So we do work with members on
24:09
prevention. How, how do we have our people
24:13
go home with all their fingers, all their toes, everything in
24:18
the same order that they were sent out to work in?
24:21
And if not, how do we make sure that they get good care so that
24:23
they can get back to work? And so can you talk a little bit
24:27
more about those programs 'cause it sounds when we first started
24:31
talking about this, I'm like, OK, yeah, I get the idea of a
24:33
captive, I get what you're doing and workers comp, but you're
24:36
going beyond the insurance component of it, right, to try
24:39
to prevent the injury from happening in the first place.
24:42
Correct. So all of our captives have a
24:44
lost control arm to them. Part of your premium gets you a
24:49
lost control consultant who will work with you on again that
24:54
prevention. I mentioned that I just came
24:57
back from a trip, I was at a risk control workshop last week.
25:00
So we do twice a year continuing education for safety.
25:05
So this is a 2 day safety workshop.
25:09
We have guest speakers, people share information, they share
25:13
best practices. We also have a group purchasing
25:16
program where we've been able to really use all of our members to
25:24
get discounts on safety items such as non slip shoes, you
25:30
know, prevention programs, any type of, you know, we do have to
25:35
three trucking captives I think now.
25:37
So a lot of prevention in the trucking industry.
25:40
So it's any type of safety items we have within our group
25:44
purchasing program that all members have access to.
25:47
We do monthly safety webinars for all of our 7500 members
25:52
across all of our captives, safety training tools, anything
25:56
from ergonomics, forklift safety, OSHA training.
26:01
You know, it's really important that members have those
26:06
resources to be able to keep their people safe.
26:10
You mentioned nurse triage early on, so yeah, you've had a claim,
26:14
right? All the preventative measures
26:16
you put in place, you're still going to have a loss.
26:19
But once that loss occurs, you want to be able to manage it.
26:21
Well. Nurse triage has been great for
26:24
our groups because it's immediate, on the phone with a
26:28
nurse, they are trained nurses, the calls are recorded.
26:33
So you're getting that very immediate recollection of
26:36
exactly what happened, when it happened, how it happened.
26:39
And that's really been able to help our members combat a couple
26:44
different things. The probability of a fraudulent
26:48
claim, you know, we see that a lot.
26:51
I'm still an optimist when it comes to people.
26:53
I really, truly believe that nobody wants to get hurt.
26:57
Nobody's blocked out that day expecting to lose a finger.
27:01
How do we make sure that they're taken care of?
27:04
But that doesn't mean I'm naive to the fact that there are
27:06
predators out there. So we want to make sure that
27:09
we're protecting our members from predatory behavior.
27:12
Their triage helps us do that. Because what ends up happening
27:14
in workers comp, you can get a situation where somebody bumped
27:19
their knee. Now all of a sudden it's my back
27:21
and my neck. And you know, their neighbor has
27:23
a cousin who's a lawyer. You don't want it to get to that
27:27
point. You want it.
27:28
You want to be able to help that injured employee manage their
27:33
injury, get back to work. But you still need the kind of
27:38
boots and suspenders of of different programs to be able to
27:41
protect the group from suspicious activity.
27:44
So that recent conference that you were at, Larissa, what's one
27:49
thing that you either learned about safety or maybe was a good
27:53
reminder of? Well, it's interesting because
28:00
we had a speaker, and I'm, I'm blanking on his name right now,
28:06
who kept showing all these videos of these very hazardous
28:08
situations and, and how it's people who are the, the, how did
28:15
he put it? Who are the weakest link in
28:17
safety and how do we make them a stronger link in safety, Right?
28:23
You can have the same person doing the same process for 20
28:26
years and then one day just lose a finger.
28:28
Why were they distracted? Did they cut corners?
28:33
What was going on that this seasoned person had this injury?
28:37
It's these small little things that I think we take for granted
28:41
every day as we're going through our process because we're so
28:45
dialed into these processes that we don't realize, oh, maybe I
28:49
just skipped a step, Maybe I wasn't as diligent.
28:52
But he kept showing these videos that were just, you know, we
28:56
don't put people in those environments in our programs.
28:59
The members aren't allowed to do like dynamite manufactured
29:02
people in mines. He kept showing people falling
29:05
from things like nobody's allowed to do this kind of work.
29:09
So hopefully we never have that issue.
29:11
He was really going over the top to try to make some points, huh?
29:14
He, he was. He was so.
29:17
And if you look around the room, the room's filled with safety
29:20
professionals. So I mean, we're all just like
29:22
covering our eyes like. But you've already got our
29:25
attention. We're already paying, you know,
29:28
We know this is important. Yeah, no, we do.
29:30
We don't want to look, but it is true.
29:31
It's it's, you know, I went so I I grew up in Chicago.
29:36
I went to a vocational high school.
29:39
So I worked on machines as a 16 year old, as a 15 year old kid.
29:44
And the concept of, of the instinct to stick your hand into
29:48
a machine, something goes in, you want to grab it, right?
29:52
That's where people come in. As far as being the weakest link
29:55
in your safety, it's you have to retrain your brain not to stick
30:02
your hand to that machine, not to walk in front of the
30:05
forklift, right? So again, I don't think people
30:08
go out to work to get injured. They're just trying to get
30:12
through their day and then skip these small little steps that
30:16
could lead to serious injuries. Gotcha.
30:20
So somebody wants to be a member, how do you price out
30:23
their premium? So somebody wants to be a
30:26
member, they go through their broker because we are not
30:29
licensed brokers. I am not a licensed broker.
30:31
That's not our role within the captive model.
30:34
So they would have to come through us through their
30:36
insurance broker. What we do then is we ask their
30:39
broker for their last five years of premium payroll and losses.
30:46
So what we're going to do then is we're going to take that
30:49
information. We're going to look it over.
30:51
I do a lot of pre qualification of companies.
30:54
I want to know who's going to be part of the captive.
30:57
I underwrite them from the top down.
31:00
So I'm going to be asking a lot of questions about the owners,
31:04
the sea level, the bench strength, how do they manage
31:07
their losses, what kind of clients do they have?
31:10
If they pass that kind of first level of pre qualification, then
31:14
we can move forward. We send their information to the
31:17
actuary. What the actuary's doing is
31:19
basically trying to predict their future based on their
31:23
history. So the actuary's going to look
31:26
at their numbers and they're going to say, OK, we are going
31:29
to need X dollars to fund their expected losses based on their
31:33
historical information. Now we know this is what our
31:38
funding number is. We add to that the expenses and
31:41
that becomes the premium. That funding number is what
31:44
members have an opportunity to get back.
31:47
That's what goes into their investment account.
31:49
That's what earns investment income.
31:51
And the name of the game is outperforming the actuary.
31:54
We, we want them to prove the actuary wrong.
31:57
We want them to do better than they did in the past because
31:59
that's how you drive down your costs.
32:01
And if you have resources and you're part of a best in class
32:05
group, you're going to perform better.
32:08
It'd be just by just by virtue of the fact that these are all,
32:14
it's high personality business owners, very competitive.
32:18
They want to be the best ones. So when you put them into this
32:21
environment, they end up doing really well because they want to
32:24
be the best ones. They want to get the safety
32:25
awards, they want to get the big dividend checks.
32:29
So there's something just innate about once you get them into
32:33
this kind of group, it, it really does change their
32:36
perspective of insurance because now they're not just a buyer,
32:40
they're really an owner and and they get to really control the
32:43
destiny of their insurance program.
32:46
So how do the actual funding mechanics work?
32:49
Is this like, OK, here's the funding amount?
32:51
This is all due up front or. So a couple things happen with
32:56
this staffing program and with all of our captives.
32:58
They pretty much have the same base model mechanics.
33:02
So, well, our goal is we want to set up a structure where we are
33:08
retaining frequency claims but transferring severity losses,
33:14
right. So what that means is the, the
33:17
frequency claims are going to be your everyday bumps, bruises,
33:21
you know, your, your basic everyday claims.
33:25
So we consider those any claim under $125,000.
33:29
So those are going to be a staffing company.
33:32
Any company's typical claims are going to run within this 100 to
33:36
150. Ours is 125, our frequency
33:39
layer, that's going to be the predominant level of claims that
33:43
most of these companies have. But what we also want to do is
33:46
protect each member and the group from, from a catastrophic
33:50
loss. In, in some states, workers comp
33:54
is unlimited, which means the insurance carrier could be
33:56
paying $10 million, fifteen, $20 million on a worker's comp
34:00
claim. We want to insulate the the
34:04
members from those types of catastrophic, bless you, bless
34:08
you from catastrophic losses. So when we look at funding,
34:13
we're looking at these two primary levels, frequency,
34:16
severity, frequency zero to 125, severity is 125 to 400,000.
34:22
So that's with all in the captive layer.
34:25
Anything over $400,000 gets transferred to our insurance
34:29
reinsurers. So we have Zurich North America
34:31
as our paper. So not only do they handle the
34:34
policies, they also handle the reinsurance.
34:36
So if the captive has $1,000,000 loss, we're only responsible for
34:41
the 1st 400,000 on a member specific basis.
34:46
Their frequency fund is going to take the 1st 125, their severity
34:50
fund is going to take the 2nd 275,000.
34:54
If they can't handle their own claim, it gets shared amongst
34:57
the group. So we have different levels of
34:59
accountability depending on the types of losses that you're
35:02
having. If you have a lot of frequency
35:04
claims, that's where it's going to hurt because frequency can be
35:09
controlled, especially in staffing.
35:11
People think that it can't because they don't control their
35:15
environment. Right, they're placing their
35:18
workers at at another company's work site.
35:20
So this is this is one of the things I think that the general
35:24
insurance marketplace doesn't really understand about
35:26
staffing. So yes, you know, it's a
35:28
transient workforce. They don't control the
35:30
environment, both true, but really good staffing companies
35:34
are really good at recruitment, knowing exactly who to put where
35:39
and why and how and partnering with their end client to make
35:43
sure that that is a safe environment for their people to
35:45
be in. So in in best in class staffing
35:49
companies, they're already doing that.
35:51
They're really dialed into what kind of environment their
35:55
clients are are in, You know, does the end client have good
36:00
safety and, and policies and procedures in place?
36:05
Are they cooperating when there is an accident and allow the
36:09
staffing company in to do a post Accident Investigation?
36:13
Are they treating their staffing employees the same as they're
36:17
treating their regular employees?
36:18
Right. So these are all the things that
36:20
staffing companies can control within the environment of their
36:23
client relationships. And then also with recruiting
36:27
who they're hiring, you know, you don't want to put somebody
36:32
that is, you know, not physically able to do a job up,
36:38
like doing it lifting 50 lbs every day or going up on, you
36:44
know, maybe a, a small step stool or a ladder or something
36:47
like that. So they're really good about
36:49
making sure they're putting the right people on the right spots
36:51
because that's that will really drive your frequency as all
36:54
those zero to 125 losses. So who's a good fit for your
36:59
captive Larissa? Obviously staffing, but
37:02
particular sizes, maybe particular types of staffing,
37:06
geographies that work better than others.
37:10
So we do have two staffing captives because the one that I
37:14
work with Thistle is they really decided a long time ago that
37:19
they did not want to work in high hazard industries.
37:22
So again, back to the control, right, The board gets to decide
37:26
these things. They did not want to work in
37:28
high hazard industries. So we did have companies that
37:34
worked in industries that Thistle did not want to do.
37:37
So they came to us and they said, hey, can you start a
37:42
captive for these industries more like oil, gas,
37:47
construction, trucking, stuff like that.
37:49
So in 2014 we did start a second staffing captive for those types
37:53
of companies from a, you know, we don't really track revenue.
37:59
I would say from a premium size, the minimum premium for both
38:01
staffing captives is 250,000. Our average premium is probably
38:07
about $900,000. You want to have enough funding
38:11
to cover your basic losses. You know, once you start to get
38:15
to a smaller premium size, you want to make sure that you can
38:18
cover, you know, your own claims and you're not kind of bleeding
38:22
out to the rest of the captive. And I'm trying to think as far
38:29
as as geography, no, we have any.
38:32
States that have rules that sort of make them under No, it's a.
38:35
Monopolistic states, but that's probably pretty standard in
38:38
insurance where we're not doing monopolistic states.
38:41
What is the monopolistic state? Well, those are states like Ohio
38:44
where you can only get insurance from that state.
38:47
So that's, you know, they they control the workers comp within
38:51
the state of Ohio, I think North Dakota, Washington, I could be
38:58
missing one. But yeah, so we can't, we can't,
39:01
we don't write coverage in those states.
39:03
You have to get the insurance from that state.
39:06
Gotcha. So somebody who's got $1,000,000
39:09
in premium a year, what might they expect to say by moving
39:15
into your captive? It depends on their losses,
39:18
right? Are they $1,000,000 of premium
39:21
but are running a 40 to 50% loss ratio?
39:24
They'll do really well. What we're looking for when you
39:28
look at the insurance industry overall, you really have, if you
39:32
were to lay out an insurance company's book of business,
39:37
you're going to end up seeing that the top 20% subsidized the
39:42
bottom 20% and then in the middle they kind of flush out.
39:46
We're really looking for those top 20%, right.
39:49
We want those companies that are engaged, that really manage
39:54
their claims, manage their risk, our best in class companies.
39:59
So it really, you know, when I I mentioned on underwriting, I,
40:03
I'm underwriting the, the owners, I'm underwriting the
40:06
company, the culture, Those are really what we're looking for
40:09
the right people to be in the club.
40:12
I don't have an ultimate say on who comes in.
40:15
I have to present every candidate to the underwriting
40:19
committee, which is which is members of the captive.
40:22
They are the gatekeepers. So, you know, we can pull
40:26
together all the information. We can go to them and say we
40:28
believe that this is a good candidate to join your group.
40:33
And then they ultimately have the say on whether they join or
40:36
not. But for the most part, if I
40:38
think it's a company that doesn't, that's not going to be
40:42
a good fit, then I wouldn't, I wouldn't bring it to that.
40:45
So it, it really comes down to the quality of the company, how
40:51
well they're doing things more than premium, because the goal
40:54
is to have the premium come down, right?
40:57
If you can manage that risk, your premium's going to come
40:59
down. Is there a mechanism in place
41:01
that allows for a member to be removed?
41:05
We do have and different captives.
41:08
Again, have different mechanics because they're all going to be
41:12
different based on what their boards decide.
41:14
So for, for the one I work with, there are a couple mechanics
41:19
don't if you don't pay your bills, you don't get insurance,
41:22
right. So if we run into situations
41:24
with problems where people aren't paying their, their
41:28
bills, I, I can kick you out where you know, it's not free
41:32
insurance. This is not how it works and
41:35
you're just hurting the rest of the group intentionally and
41:42
chronically breaking the rules, right.
41:45
If everybody else has to follow the same rules with regards to
41:48
what type of risk they can bring into the captive.
41:51
We haven't had to kick anybody out, but I have to have some
41:53
pretty tough conversations where no, you cannot bring on window
41:58
washers on skyscrapers, you know, or, or they just kind of,
42:02
you know, I had one where they were just doing hazardous jobs
42:05
without telling us or without pre approval.
42:09
That was a difficult conversation where you either
42:11
get it out of here or you have to leave.
42:15
Like you can insure it somewhere else, but you can't.
42:18
Well, you've got another captive for those higher risk.
42:21
Positions and this was kind of before we started that captive.
42:23
So that ended up working out where we can kind of, we have, I
42:28
think, 5 members now that are in both programs.
42:30
So in the one program, they'll put their light industrial,
42:34
medical, more professional risk in the other captive is where
42:38
they're heavier risk is. So they've been able to kind of
42:41
diversify their risk between the two captives.
42:44
Larissa, can you give me an example of how you use lost data
42:48
and on site inspections to 1st identify common workplace
42:54
hazards but then propose fixes for them as well?
42:57
Oh yeah, so data, right. We love, we love data.
43:04
Being able to data mine the information from the claims is a
43:10
great resource. It can tell us if members are
43:16
having more claims with a certain clients in a certain
43:20
state, in a certain environment. So then we can really drill down
43:26
to be able to help our members identify which clients are
43:31
causing them the most pain. You know, we had a client, a
43:35
member of the captive who kept having all these.
43:40
They worked in a recycling facility.
43:43
So we saw a lot of claims where they were continuously having
43:47
cuts, small cuts. OK.
43:51
We identified the facility, We identified the injury.
43:55
Let's spend some money to get you guys better gloves, right?
43:58
Like let's make sure that the employees there have better
44:00
gloves. If we identify that at a certain
44:03
client's site, there's a lot of slip trip and falls.
44:07
Great. We partner with Shoes for Crews.
44:09
Let's get these people some better non slip shoes.
44:12
So it's different things like that where we can see through
44:16
the lost detail where that low hanging fruit is and identify
44:22
trends. Sometimes members don't even
44:24
realize that what they consider is their best client are the
44:28
ones that are burning up their workers comp because they're
44:31
having more claims than what the member can bill for their rates.
44:37
So, you know, it's, it's those kinds of conversations that
44:41
really help members kind of dig through the weeds because
44:44
they're live, they're running their staffing companies
44:46
everyday. They're they're hustling.
44:49
You know, sometimes it does take a different eye to kind of take
44:53
a step back. Let's really look at what's
44:55
going on here, and then you can really start making some better
44:59
decisions on how to manage it. If there are dividends from the
45:03
investments leftover at the end of the year, Larissa, how do
45:06
those get distributed? Is it based on a percentage of
45:08
your premium? Does what was paid out in terms
45:13
of claims factor into that? Calculation.
45:19
So it's going to be like, let's say you, you are a billion
45:23
dollar member, you know, and I'll use round numbers just
45:27
because it's, it's easier, right.
45:29
So $1,000,000 member and we've got 35% expense.
45:33
That's a sunk cost to run the captive and all the service
45:36
providers. So now you have, you know
45:38
$650,000 of funding and you only had $100,000 of losses.
45:45
Now you have $550,000 that's been sitting in that investment
45:49
account. We close the years after we
45:51
start doing dividends after three years of that policy
45:54
period expiration, so. Once expiration, once it's.
45:59
Yeah, because workers comp has a long tail, so we can't start
46:03
giving back money after 12 months.
46:06
I mean, there's so much that can change with those claims.
46:08
So what the group does is they'll start doing partial
46:12
dividend distributions after three years with a full shutdown
46:16
after 5. So once we look at those
46:19
numbers, back to my example, you have $550,000 left in your in
46:24
your equity account 'cause you didn't pay out those claims, you
46:27
didn't have those losses. After three years, you're going
46:31
to start seeing that dividend come back off of what's left of
46:34
your money, plus all the investment income you earned on
46:36
it. So that's all your cash.
46:39
So that long tail that you're talking about, that happens
46:42
potentially because I broke my toe and I'm trying to get
46:49
payment for that. But there's a discussion that's
46:51
going on, there's verification processes.
46:54
It could be so many things. You could end up with a back
46:56
injury that two years later requires spinal fusion surgery.
47:00
You can end up with a laceration that wasn't taken care of that
47:06
now becomes an application. I you know, some states, and it
47:11
depends on where the injury occurred.
47:14
Some states have lifetime medical benefits where you're
47:18
paying that employee for the rest of their life if they've
47:21
had a serious injury, if they have children and that employee
47:25
cannot work anymore, you're paying for that, right?
47:29
So it does change claims can reopen, claims can develop over
47:35
a period of time because the injuries gotten worse or
47:39
requires more therapy or another surgery.
47:43
So these are all the things that happened within the worker's
47:45
comp world that I think people when they're on a guarantee cost
47:49
policy, that means that when they're done with the policy,
47:53
they're done with the claims and the captive, when you're done
47:57
with the policy, you're not done with the claims because you are
48:00
an invested owner in the insurance, you're taking that
48:04
risk for as an owner. So you get the profit and loss,
48:09
not the insurance company. Larissa, how is the captive that
48:15
you offer workers comp to the staffing industry through
48:19
captive resources better than what else is out there, better
48:23
than competing products? Ownership, I mean, that's the
48:27
only thing it really is. There's no other market.
48:31
There's no other market in staffing, especially that A has
48:35
been around for 30 years and B is run by staffing companies,
48:40
right. So I think that's the biggest
48:43
competitive advantage that the captive has is it's a staff,
48:46
it's a staffing captive run by staffing owners.
48:50
They're not going to create an environment that's going to make
48:53
it difficult for them to be profitable.
48:56
I mean, who would do that, right?
48:57
So it's a lot of these other insurance carriers, not only do
49:02
they not understand staffing, but they like to jump in and out
49:05
like they're like fair weather friends, right?
49:09
Where they one day they love staffing and then the next day
49:12
they hate staffing. So they're they're just really
49:15
fickle when it comes to staffing.
49:17
Whereas the captive, it's not going anywhere.
49:19
It's been around since 1995. It's run by staffing companies.
49:25
So it is in my opinion. And again, I grew up on the
49:27
Kool-aid, right? The captive, the captive
49:30
Kool-aid. It's the best place for for good
49:35
quality staffing companies to be.
49:37
The tagline I sort of see in my head is for staffing by
49:40
staffing. Right.
49:42
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's for.
49:45
And again, you know, staffing is so dynamic, it takes, it takes a
49:52
big personality to start and run a staffing company.
49:56
So you're really talking about 8 type personalities that grind,
49:59
that hustle. They are not going to have
50:02
patience for a program that doesn't do what it needs them to
50:05
do it. They just won't.
50:07
So I think that's the biggest draw to this.
50:11
And of course the whole concept of you have to qualify.
50:17
People want things that they have to qualify for.
50:21
It's more. It's elite.
50:23
It is elite. We do have I, I've been working
50:27
with some staffing companies that it took like 2 years,
50:30
almost three years for them to get into the captive because I
50:33
worked with them and said, OK, if this is your goal is to get
50:37
into this program, these are the things you're going to need to
50:40
do. And so, you know, it takes them
50:44
a while, but they end up coming in.
50:46
They put the work in. They put in the work because
50:48
it's merit based. At the end of the day, you're
50:51
betting on yourself and if that concerns you then you may need
50:57
to take a look at what you're doing and how you're doing it.
51:00
Larissa, in my experience, most success stories have a chapter
51:05
that almost broke them. Can you share a particular
51:08
challenge you've gone through, personal or professional, how
51:12
you got through that, and what you learned in the process?
51:15
Oh my goodness, I was thinking about this one.
51:18
So most people don't really know this.
51:24
I, I don't promote like my background, but I, I grew up in
51:29
Chicago in the inner city, a very toxic, volatile
51:34
environment. And I learned very early the
51:38
only way I was going to get out of it was by working.
51:41
That was that's the only way out.
51:44
So at 12 I became like the the babysitter, right?
51:47
Like I any kid babysit started waitressing early at 16.
51:53
I was out on my own at 17, taking the bus from job to job.
51:59
So it really wasn't one of those situations where I ever thought
52:05
I'd have a career right. When you're, when you grow up in
52:08
that environment, it's more survival.
52:11
And I had jobs, but I didn't really have a career path or, or
52:15
anything. And it wasn't really until I got
52:18
captive resources that I realized like, OK, I can do
52:22
this, right? I can, I can do this.
52:26
When I first put my hat in the ring to take over this captive
52:32
back in 2013, 2014, I thought I, I until this day, I really do
52:38
kind of get it in the back of my head like I don't belong here.
52:43
Like I, I didn't go to university.
52:45
I don't have an MBA. Like I'm a kid from Chicago.
52:50
Like why is anybody listening to me?
52:53
You know, when I, when I got the promotion, I, I freaked out to
52:56
my husband. I'm like, what was I thinking?
52:58
I'm in over my head. I can't do this.
53:00
Like, so it's really that self doubt, but I think it was more
53:03
because I didn't have the credentials, right?
53:07
Like I didn't and I think that put me in a self doubting
53:11
position. It took a lot to overcome that.
53:15
And even still sometimes today it sneaks in.
53:18
If I'm sitting at, I mean I'm sitting in multi $1,000,000
53:20
meetings. The this captive runs $430
53:23
million of assets through it and I'm in charge.
53:27
You know, the group, the, the board comes to me to solve their
53:30
problems. And I still find it just mind
53:35
blowing thinking of kind of where I came from and how I,
53:42
how, where I am now. And really just the, the
53:45
gratitude of the people that kind of took me out of their
53:49
wing, that taught me the stuff that helped me grow.
53:53
That means a lot. So it's really, yeah, just kind
53:56
of that, that self-confidence I had to really, really get over
54:00
that hump of like, yeah, I do belong here.
54:03
I I I do have value in this environment.
54:07
As you look back to your time, as you know, just some kid from
54:11
the inner city of Chicago and the age of 12, you were like, my
54:15
only way out of this really rough environment is just to
54:17
work. You see some of the people who
54:20
were around you at the time, it did others kind of make the move
54:25
up the ladder with you. That's hard to say 'cause I
54:32
don't really know. I it was one of those why I
54:35
really had to. You got out.
54:37
I got out, yeah, 'cause people that are not in those types of
54:41
environments don't really understand it has to be all or
54:45
nothing. It has to be because they pull
54:50
you. They pull you back in.
54:51
People who enjoy their misery want everybody to be part of
54:57
that. You know they don't want you to
54:59
be successful. They don't.
55:03
So they try to pull you back in. So it had to be all or nothing.
55:07
OK. Yeah.
55:09
Do you think you'd be where you are now if you had a more
55:13
traditional upbringing? I have no idea.
55:16
I don't even think about it really, because I, I, I couldn't
55:19
even fathom what my life would be like if I was, you know,
55:24
raised in a, a normal environment and got, you know,
55:28
opportunities or what's called, you know, four year university
55:31
or lived in a better neighborhood.
55:33
I, I don't even think about that.
55:34
Don't. Even go there.
55:36
So what did you do to help get you to be more comfortable and
55:41
believing that you do belong? I think it was having, having
55:50
difficult conversations with smart people.
55:54
So one of the things that I think helped me over that hump
56:00
was again, I put, I put our clients on, on pedestals.
56:05
Like again, they're staffing companies.
56:07
They, I never built anything like they built this, right?
56:10
They run it. They, they deal with the daily
56:11
stuff and they're coming to me for solutions.
56:15
So when I can help them solve a problem, that's where I get that
56:20
confidence boost from, you know, and the fact that they're coming
56:24
to me to help solve a problem for them, that's almost like it.
56:31
It fills that bucket for me where where then I can be like,
56:35
oh, this, this super smart person that I respect needs me
56:40
for something. So it's just those little
56:42
things, those little acts that I think really help solidify.
56:47
Yeah, I do. I, I do know what I'm doing,
56:49
right? So that was kind of like how it
56:51
worked. I like that.
56:53
What's your superpower, Larissa? Oh my goodness.
56:58
I think I'm a people person. I do like people and I think
57:01
that's what drew me to stay with the the staffing captive as long
57:05
as I have. They really do care about
57:07
people. They want people to work.
57:09
They want people to provide for their family.
57:11
They want people to go home safely.
57:14
I like to think I'm authentic. I don't really, I don't really
57:19
have agendas. That's not really how I operate.
57:25
You know, I don't, I, I take my work seriously, but I don't take
57:28
myself too seriously, right? I like to have fun.
57:31
I think I'm, I'm pretty, I'm pretty chill.
57:35
I don't really let a lot of things fluster me, even if
57:39
there's a problem, if a member's having a problem or, you know,
57:42
having a difficult conversation, yeah, I don't let things
57:48
fluster. So I don't know, I think life's
57:50
too short to be so, you know, stressed out all the time.
57:54
So I just kind of take things for what they are very calm and
57:57
logical. I don't get too worked up.
58:01
And and I think that's because of the people thing, right?
58:03
Like people react to your reaction.
58:07
It's it's contagious. So if I I'm getting all crazy,
58:12
then other people are getting all crazy.
58:14
Whereas I try to really maintain like people are people, let's
58:19
try to help everybody. Let's be a good leader for your
58:21
our team. Let's be a good example for the
58:24
other people coming up in captive resources that are new
58:28
or in their 20s that are learning this captive thing.
58:32
And then everything just kind of works out on its own.
58:35
Larissa, I've just got one more question for you today.
58:37
But before I ask, I want to do 3 quick things.
58:40
First of all, anybody that wants to get in touch with Larissa,
58:43
there's three options. Her LinkedIn page, and we're
58:46
going to have a link to that in the show notes, but her name is
58:48
Larissa Akrawi AKRAWI Captive Resources.
58:54
Then there's two websites. I'm going to give you
58:55
captiveresources.com and Temps insurance.com temps with an S
59:01
insurance.com. We will have links to all that
59:04
in the show notes if you missed it.
59:06
And Speaking of the show, if you are enjoying it, please take a
59:10
moment to subscribe wherever you're listening.
59:12
It sends a signal that helps others discover our show.
59:16
So thank you for taking a quick moment to do that right now.
59:19
And as a reminder, you can get your employees access to
59:22
therapists, doctors and prescription meds that, as
59:25
paradoxical as it seems, actually increases your
59:28
company's net profits, real gains that can change how a
59:31
business is valued. Contact us today at
59:33
edbackbenefits.com. So last question for you,
59:36
Larissa. A year from now, what is 1
59:39
specific thing that you hope to be celebrating?
59:42
The rebound of the staffing industry, it's been, it's been a
59:46
rough 2 1/2 years for, for the members.
59:49
And I would really, really like to see a recovery.
59:53
I would like to see them build, you know, get, bounce back,
59:55
bigger, better, stronger. The last 2 1/2 years have just
1:00:00
been really tough. And it, it does, you know, I've
1:00:03
seen a couple of our folks that had to shut their doors over the
1:00:06
last couple years. So I really would love to see
1:00:10
them just rally 'cause, you know, high tides raise all ships
1:00:15
and, and I think, you know, it just makes them happier.
1:00:18
I just want to see them happy. I just, I want them to see the.
1:00:22
I want to see them to just recover.
1:00:24
That would be that would be my hope.
1:00:26
What do you think has led to the decline over the last 2 1/2
1:00:30
years? Or maybe a different way to ask
1:00:32
it would be what needs to change in order for the rebound to take
1:00:35
effect. Yeah.
1:00:36
It's interesting because it, I mean it's interesting because it
1:00:38
really it's a decline compared to the recovery after COVID,
1:00:43
right. So we're really back to like our
1:00:46
2019 numbers. So it's been a hard five years
1:00:51
where it's just been up and down and up and down.
1:00:57
I think other, I think staffing companies could probably answer
1:01:00
that better than I could. I mean, I have maybe some
1:01:02
theories, but you know, when you're dealing with stuff like
1:01:05
medical inflation, legal inflation, you know, that really
1:01:09
puts a lot of pressure. The cost of claims is getting
1:01:12
higher. We're seeing a lot more claims
1:01:15
just become mega dollars. The auto industry is tough with
1:01:20
distracted driving. Auto claims are out of control.
1:01:24
So I think that maybe what part of it too is that everybody
1:01:30
thought by now the manufacturing facilities would be full of
1:01:33
robots and they're not. So now it's really what's going
1:01:36
to happen with AI. Is AI going to remove some of
1:01:40
the more white collar jobs versus now the blue collar jobs?
1:01:46
So it's going to be an interesting dynamic to watch
1:01:48
over the next few years how the staffing industry responds to
1:01:52
this. But I have no doubt that they
1:01:56
they will find they're so good at pivoting and they're so good
1:01:59
at finding the areas where they can bring value.
1:02:03
I have no doubt that they'll just crush it over the next
1:02:05
couple years. I had the pleasure to interview
1:02:09
dozens of folks in the the staffing space on this show, and
1:02:13
I'll echo your comments about the entrepreneurial and
1:02:17
resilient spirit that seems to exist as a common thread amongst
1:02:21
almost all of them. Yeah, they're, they're great
1:02:23
people. I, I have, I, I'm so blessed to
1:02:26
be able to have the opportunity not only to work here at Captive
1:02:29
Resources, but to have gotten to know the staffing group and the
1:02:32
staffing industry. Well, Larissa Acroye from
1:02:36
Captive Resources, I want to be the first to thank you for
1:02:39
sharing both your time and your story with us today.
1:02:41
I really appreciate you being here.
1:02:43
Thank you so much, this was fun my first podcast.
1:02:46
Oh, you're, you seem like a seasoned veteran.
1:02:50
That's awesome, folks. That's a wrap on another episode
1:02:53
of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us.
1:02:56
And if one thing stood out, put that into action today.