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JUST JOSH: Dissecting Tucker Carlson · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

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  Get a humans welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas and one of the most dangerous
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  things that one has to consider in this crazy cacophony of media that we're all consuming
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  and in the case of someone like me also producing is just how dangerous do you want the ideas
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  that you consider that you discuss that you maybe even propagate to be how much will
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  you play footsie with things that are far enough outside the envelope of normal conversations
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  that many people will find them offensive. And I want to use one individual today as
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  a case study of how corrosive and potentially dangerous it can be to expand the conversation
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  into territory where it basically brings out the worst in all of us. Tucker Carlson is
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  someone I've been fascinated by for a long time to say that I'm a student of his broadcasting
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  style would be insulting to him and to me. But he is unique and in some ways I worry that
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  he may be the most dangerous person in America. People talk about what happens to the Republican
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  party after Donald Trump with a Donald Trump junior will run with a JD advance will run.
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  I've long had an inkling that Tucker Carlson is the real heir to Trumpism and could be
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  far more dangerous as a president someday than president Trump. He has all of the showman's
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  instinct that Trump does with a lot less of the baggage and he's a lot cannier and a lot smarter.
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  He first came to my attention in an infamous segment which John Stewart did when he was invited
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  on Tucker Carlson's old show. This is going back 21 years now. Tucker had a show on CNN called
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  Crossfire which ostensibly debated issues of American politics from both sides and Tucker Carlson
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  would get up there as this precocious, brash, highly intelligent conservative wearing a bow tie
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  and eviscerate lefties. He was a fan of John Stewart. They invited John on the show. John came on
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  and totally annihilated them to such an extent that Crossfire was soon canceled.
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  And the head of CNN said that John Stewart's appearance and the arguments that he made were
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  a contributing factor to that cancellation. He's a little bit of how that went down.
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  It's 24 hour day where we have each side on his best. No, no, no, no, that would be great.
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  Have them fight it out. To do it debate would be great but that's like saying pro wrestling is a show
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  about athletic competition. I think you're a good comedian. I think your lectures are boring.
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  Let me ask you a question on the news. No, this is theater. I mean it's obvious. How old are you?
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  35. And you wear a bow tie. I know. I know. I know. Let me just go. Now, come on.
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  Listen, I'm not, I'm not suggesting that you're not, you're not a smart guy because those are not
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  easy to tie. But the difficulty is that this, you're doing theater when you should be doing debate.
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  So that was 21 years ago. And in the interim, Tucker Carlson ended up on Fox News and became the most
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  successful talk show host in America with his nightly show. He was unceremoniously dumped quite
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  mysteriously a few years ago by the Murdoch's who ostensibly seemed to feel that he was getting a
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  bit too big for his boots. He was broadcasting from his own bunker that he'd set up in Maine.
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  And he was essentially a one man band and he was getting a larger and larger following of
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  populist Americans who were culturally disenchanted, who were feeling a lot of demographic anxiety
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  about the way the United States was headed. And he was more unpredictable than ever and veering off
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  the talking points of conventional Republican politics and of the Murdoch's priorities far too much.
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  So one day on a Friday night, he wished his viewers a good weekend and said he'd see them again
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  on Monday. And then he went into local Murdoch's office and was told to clear out his desk.
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  After that, he's become an internet phenomenon. His podcast is absolutely massive. And he started
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  sitting down with more and more controversial people. Most recently, a young racist, popular anti-Semite
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  called Nick Fuentes, who he had on his show pretty unquestioningly in a pretty softball interview
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  where Nick was given the opportunity to say things like this. The main challenge to that,
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  big challenge to that is organized jewelry in America. I see Jewishness as the common denominator.
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  So apparently blaming America's ills on organized jewelry, in other words, the Jews,
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  the oldest slander in the book is now just something that people of Tucker Carlson's
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  pedigree feel is an appropriate idea to put on the dining table of America's media diet.
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  And when Tucker was pulled up on this and questioned about it by his former friend and colleague,
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  the other conservative broadcaster Megan Kelly recently, he had this defense.
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  Nick Fuentes has said a long list of very vile things.
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  Big time, including attacking my dad, which was the most vile of all in my opinion.
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  Yeah. I mean, I personally have watched videos of him questioning the Holocaust,
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  likening it to baking cookies in the oven. And there's no way you could have gotten a six
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  million. It seems to be his theory. He thinks to seem to think that we've way overstated the number
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  of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha vans in the most offensive terms.
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  So what do you say to those people? Why don't you raise any that?
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  You know, do your own interview. The way that you want to do it. You're not my editor.
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  Buzz off. I mean, I don't know. You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes? I'll give you a cell,
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  call him and go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you.
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  I got the same thing with Putin. Why aren't you yelling at him? Okay. Why?
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  So I can show that I'm a good person. I care about what my wife thinks, my children think,
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  and God thinks. And that's it. I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you.
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  You may think of a terrible person. Okay. I'm just doing my thing, which is I want to understand
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  what people think. And I'm committed to that. And if you don't like it, don't watch. That's my view.
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  Now, to some extent, he sort of has a point. He's allowed to talk to whoever he wants to talk to.
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  And people are allowed to either watch his show or not watch his show. But the sort of gentlemanly
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  agreement that has existed amongst major media figures and media outlets to sideline ideas
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  that we know pernicious has completely fallen apart and crumbled. We saw that during COVID,
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  and we're seeing it more and more now. And I'm not sure that the correct response to Tucker's
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  instinct is just to clutch our pearls and circle the wagons and say, these ideas must never be
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  discussed. Because all that does is give them a sort of a free song of naughtiness and makes
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  young people who are interested in rebelling, who are interested in pushing back against the
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  sanctimonious piety of the people who they regard as being the elites, the people who they think
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  have done such a bad job of governing the country and the world over the past few generations.
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  Give them a reason to feel like, well, maybe there's something here. If everybody is telling us
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  that we're not allowed to talk about these things, why are you trying to stamp down on my freedom
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  of speech? Instead, I'd rather have a conversation, an uncomfortable conversation, if you will,
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  about the way we have conversations about controversial things and the way that individuals
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  like Tucker Carlson are so good at the alchemy of taking a few ideas, a few low grade true ideas
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  and spinning them into the gold of eyeballs and conspiracies and big compelling narratives that
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  can make a lot of sense. The way we might do this today is by looking at a speech that Tucker Carlson
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  gave last year. He was invited to Australia by a conservative organization on a multi-city
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  speaking tour. He spent a couple of weeks in Australia and he gave a speech to very favorable
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  conservative audiences in almost every major city. Let's have a listen to it because some of what
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  he says is true. A lot of what he says is not true and the bits that are true get manipulated by
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  his worldview into a narrative about what has gone wrong with the West that it's worth being
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  mindful of and it's worth noticing so that when you're in conversations with people who consume a
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  lot of this stuff, you sort of understand what the backdrop is to what they're saying and you
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  don't get bogged down in nitpicking particular details about nuclear energy or immigration or
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  migrant assimilation or whatever it might be. You can sort of step back and understand, okay,
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  this conversation is actually not a conversation about the details. It's not a conversation about
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  the shit that Tucker Carlson is collecting. It's a conversation about the gold that he is spinning
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  that shit into with his unique brand of alchemy. Some of this I will just let run but I hand the
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  table over briefly to Tucker Carlson and I will interject when necessary. This is my last night in
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  Australia. I've been here two and a half weeks. It's my seventh city and I'm just absolutely in
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  love with your country and I mean that and I will be back. I've spent my whole life thinking about
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  coming here. I'm 55 so that's like 50 years and I grew up in a country that just idolized
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  Australia. We just we just loved it. Everything about I grew up in a surf community. We thought
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  your surfers all of whom are named Shane I think at the time. We thought they were the coolest.
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  We thought all of your women were like El McPherson like every woman in Australia looks like
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  El McPherson and that everybody in Australia is attacked by some sort of deadly animal every day
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  of the week and thinks nothing of it and that's all kind of true. I've decided it's all sort of
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  true. It's the most beautiful country I've ever been to the most lately populated and it has
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  functional cities which is something I'm not used to at all. You know in where I live it's like
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  it's incredibly beautiful but you have to escape the cities. Here you go to the cities and they're
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  great. You're like I could live here if I could afford it which I can't. I love your profanity
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  not all of which I understand but it's used liberally. Words we don't have. I'm not going to repeat
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  them. I repeat them the other night to people like oh that's a bad word. I was like we don't
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  even have that word. I have no idea what it means. It's like swearing and mandering and it doesn't
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  offend me. You know and I think I above all like if I'm being honest this is a little syrupy but
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  I believe in tomorrow so I'll just be honest but I love how much you love animals. I just love
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  that and it's a very it's a very Anglo quality it's part of the culture that we share you know I'll
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  drive from the UK. So just notice what he's setting up here there's a lot of flattery that's to be
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  expected. He said a couple of things that are worth bearing in mind. The cities are great. He likes
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  the cities here because they're not full of crime they're not full of dysfunction they're not full
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  of homeless people and drug addicts presumably so just bear that in mind and now he says that he
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  loves our love for animals also great and laudable and he says in his explanation of why we love
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  animals that this is an Anglo thing. He just used the word Anglo right we derive it from Britain
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  apparently just note that but I've never seen it at this scale and before I came here I mean I had
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  heard a million accounts of many people who had come here who would say you know that
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  old cliche about how every animal in Australia is looking to kill you that's all true and the Australians
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  aren't bothered by it that turns out to be true also but it's deeper than that I thought it was
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  just bravery and sort of devil make hair non shulans which is clearly true but it's also like such a
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  profound love of animals the other night two nights ago we're having dinner and people are telling
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  me about your magpies and how they dive bomb people in this woman's I didn't and I didn't know if
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  this was like one of those drop bear hoop snake stories designed to like scare the foreigners or
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  I didn't know if they were being serious because my country magpies are just chirpy birds but here
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  they're deadly and she's telling me how the the male men posties I think she called them where
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  helmets with spikes on top to keep the birds off and I'm like that's not real oh it's totally real
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  and then she shows me videos of it I'm like I'm like shocked by the whole thing and then she goes
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  with her highly intelligent I was like yeah you should shoot them and then you just kill like the
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  first years worth and all the other magpies it gets together to be like let's leave the male man
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  alone you know because they're smart this woman looked at me like I was a child molester or a fridge
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  she's like shoot them no and I said you know in my country I mean I love animals I live with animals
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  but I also hunt birds but our rule is if the animals trying to kill you that's a violation of the
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  creation contract is outlined in Genesis 2 which is you have too many know for them like they're not
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  you know we can all live kind of peacefully together but if you try and kill me then I have to
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  you know fight back and having free will and opposable thumbs like I'm gonna win
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  and this woman looked at me honestly like I was a monster like no and then that reminded me of
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  a conversation I had the week before where this guy's telling me how we found a brown snake in his
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  garage and I was like the brown snake like the world famous like second most poisonous snake in
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  the world he goes yeah and I thought if I found a brown a brown snake in my garage I might burn
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  the garage down obviously immediately I just toss a cup of gasoline in there and torch it
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  well worth it in shirt or not and then I call the army to kill all the other I mean brown snakes
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  don't live alone they're produced by their brown snakes and obviously we need to commit brown
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  snake genocide just for our own survival I said what I'm not joking at all and I said what's
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  you he goes oh my wife tossed me a broom and I shoot it out and he wasn't kidding at all
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  and I realized these are people who love animals so much that killing them is like not only a
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  last resort it's like kind of horrifying it's horrifying and I thought what a wonderful
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  and true reflection of the character of the country because love of animals is the beginning
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  of decency because you have control over animals they're a version of children unlike children
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  if you mistreat your kids like they turn 18 and they you know they hate you and they go on a
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  campaign against you and become drug addicts but animals you can do whatever you want to them
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  and there's nothing they can ever do and so that is the measure of who you really are
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  how you treat the defenseless the helpless people or animals for whom you're responsible you have
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  dominion over them you're responsible for them in some cases their care and that increases your
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  responsibility to be kind and decent to them and so I really think that is the clearest picture
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  of who you are and I could not be more impressed and I also would say as a policy matter that that
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  should be honestly should be your standard for who you let into your country you can't live in
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  Australia unless you love animals I mean I don't think you're not even to bring cigarettes into your
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  country certainly can't bring firearms why would you bring people who hate animals or who don't
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  respect them or who eat endangered animals for fun like no so here we start getting into the way
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  in which the narrative and the worldview that Tucker is trying to impart gets subtly smuggled
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  into things that are completely unrelated he's noticed here that we don't shoot magpies and we don't
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  declare an all-out genocide on brown snakes that we have some kind of respect for the natural
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  environment especially the native natural environment the native animals and now we're at a point
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  at which he says so the conclusion to that is you shouldn't allow people into this country who don't
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  have a respect for animals which sounds reasonably innocuous until you ask yourself well how do Americans
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  and Australians raise animals I mean certainly in America it's almost exclusively through factory
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  farms through concentrated animal feeding operations now Tucker Carlson is not a vegetarian
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  that doesn't mean he's not allowed to love animals but it doesn't mean that in terms of the
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  institutionalized treatment of animals it's a little bit bizarre to come from a country where
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  pigs are kept in crates in order to maximize the profit that an industrial farming operation
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  is able to extract from selling each pound of their flesh and turn it into a question about we
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  shouldn't be allowing people who presumably he's not talking about individual people he's talking
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  about people who come from what countries maybe cultures maybe I don't know races or ethnicities
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  that allegedly mistreat animals or mistreat the kinds of animals that he wouldn't want to see
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  mistreat it or mistreat them in a different way than we in the West mistreat them it's just an
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  interesting switch and it can sort of slide by you instinctively because sure why would you want
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  people here who who want to burn cats alive or something but he's sort of dropping these little
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  breadcrumbs that make it much much easier to end up at his final destination which is an entire
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  conspiratorial worldview about what is going wrong with the West but the pillars that he's building
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  on which to to ground that worldview each of them a slightly erroneous but also a little bit
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  true the true bit is it's a judge of a person's character as to whether or not they abuse animals
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  into judge of a person's character as to whether or not they treat helpless defenseless creatures
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  who are in their orbit with a certain level of respect and humanity absolutely true why wouldn't
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  that get around of applause he's also quite a funny and charming guy I mean compare them to Donald
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  Trump's rambling rants and Tucker Carlson is a lot more switched on a lot easier to follow for
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  a reasonable person but the leaps that he's making in building these pillars of his argument are
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  well let's just say a little bit strange even at this early point I'm sure I'm actually not
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  kidding at all you should make that your standard because above all you want to keep your country
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  decent and that is the measure of decency and you have a right to do that you have a right to
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  observe your national character particularly for national character is good which yours is
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  it is good that's exactly right and what's too interesting you know of all the countries being
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  targeted for destruction which is you know the entire English-speaking world I mean that's obviously
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  true okay this is also interesting so the entire western world is being targeted for destruction
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  he just sort of says that as if it's a fact but the the line before that is also really interesting
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  he says a couple of things he says if you want to keep your country decent to great
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  choice of words he's a wordsmith if you want to keep your country decent I mean who wouldn't
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  want to be decent and if you are decent who wouldn't want to remain decent why would you want to
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  contaminate your country your decent good upstanding moral country with things that are in decent
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  from abroad people who have no respect for your own decency and the second thing that he says is
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  you have every right to do that so it becomes a frame not of should we be excluding people who come
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  from places that have less of a respect for animals or a different attitude towards animals
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  than we do and rather than a should it becomes a can we may we are we permitted to well of course we
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  are permitted to right you have a right to keep your country decent anyone who tells you
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  that you should let in somebody from a place that doesn't have the same attitude towards magpires
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  and brown snakes as you is disputing your right to to oppose your countries becoming in decent
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  let's continue uh you know there's a case to be made against some of those countries I mean they
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  sort of did bad things in the past no one currently living but you can look at the history of
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  certain countries I'm not pointing out any in particular great Britain but you know you could say
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  you could say well you know we're we're wrecking the country because of the sins of its ancestors
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  what exactly were your sins I think you guys got sent here by the way everyone I ask when I
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  was like why were your ancestors sent here it's always the same as you know what it is stealing
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  a loaf of bread I don't believe that for a second by the way I just don't believe that it was
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  armed robbery in every case but it's like oh stealing a loaf of bread yeah okay right but anyway
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  not only did you not do anything wrong this was the prison that you turned into paradise you
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  have nothing to apologize for at all uh Australia has nothing to apologize for he does the gag about
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  some countries have a historical past that you know was less than perfect he's a great Britain
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  I guess he's talking about colonialism um I don't know how you can talk about the historical
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  crimes of Britain in colonialism and allied the historical crimes of Australia in the genocide
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  of indigenous populations I mean either he's just playing dumb here and I think he is because of what
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  is about to come in the conversation but it's just worth noting that we're going from decency
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  and Australia's right to uphold its decency to the claim that it is not only decent today as a
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  place and to people but that historically there is nothing to be ashamed of not even the way that
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  First Nations people were treated let's continue and yet at every turn they're making you apologize
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  I have never seen a society more under attack than the one you're living in now and for less
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  justification every time a commercial airline lands every time any kind of ceremony opens
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  they send you the message that you're on someone else's land and I'm thinking to myself look and
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  this is no slight against the people they're talking about at all but it's I don't know it's
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  Australian land and you're all Australians and you know I guess my first question is why would
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  you ever put up with that and that's not a question that I can answer because I'm not Australian
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  I didn't hear what you said but I I think I agree with you but my my second question is who is
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  this helping who is this helping is it helping the people who are supposedly being honored by
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  these displays no of course not it has nothing to do with them now we have something very similar
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  going on in my country where the people in charge trying to make you feel bad about things that
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  people you never met did hundreds of years ago but you're feeling bad doesn't help the people
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  they claim to represent so hang on we've gone from saying that there is nothing for Australians
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  to be ashamed of in their past to now saying that present day Australians in America and shouldn't
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  be made to feel guilty for the bad things that their ancestors did people they've never met did
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  a long time ago and this is part of Tucker's great craftsmanship which is that he takes things
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  that have become hot culture war issues where there really is a sense of general frustration about
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  how far things have gone in terms of identitarian politics in terms of social justice posturing in
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  terms of the kind of sensorious finger wagging virtue signaling that especially corporations have
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  come to do since the sort of peak woke of 2018 to 2022 and when he says that you can't land in a
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  commercial airliner without being told that you should feel guilty for living in this land because
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  it's not really your land what he's referring to is the fact that quantus and other airlines in
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  Australia every time they land they'll say welcome to the land of the wereadry people or whatever
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  the local you know indigenous tribe was and they'll say you know there'll be some something in the
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  airport will say it always was and always will be at original land this is now a sort of this is
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  a tokenistic thing that although it exists little bit in some parts of America and the Pacific
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  Northwest you find this kind of gesturing it is now a mainstream part of the fabric of Australian
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  society there is no awards ceremony there is no HR meeting there is barely any website that doesn't
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  begin with either a pop-up page or a recognition of the traditional owners of the land this is
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  irritating to many Australians they feel like we get it we understand this now we don't have to
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  keep saying it how many times we have to keep saying it if we're at a conference we have to say
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  it before every single speech we said it at 9am do we have to say it again at 11am are we going to
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  say it again at 1pm we know that it always was and always will be Aboriginal land we're going to
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  it's still going to be Aboriginal land at 3pm when we say it again you know it's still going to
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  be Aboriginal land at 5pm when we say the next meeting it has become this tokenistic way for white
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  people to pat themselves on the back about how they're on the right side of history without actually
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  having to do anything that materially benefits first nations people so there is a genuine critique
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  here but it's not just being leveled by Tucker Carlson as a genuine critique of a practice that
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  has become a little bit of a mutual masturbation exercise amongst university educated mostly white
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  elites he's doing something bigger which is again he's building another pillar for his world view
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  for this kind of conspiratorial narrative that he's going to end up spinning and which motivates so
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  much of his broadcast output at the moment and which I'm so afraid of because I think it is a
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  compelling narrative to people who feel left behind by globalization and certainly have become
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  isolated and atomized by social media and God only knows what artificial intelligence is going
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  to bring so there is a ripe base of middle Americans and Middle Australians and Middle
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  everybody's who is going to be vulnerable to weaving this kind of narrative which is why I'm trying
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  to break it down and understand it for what it is so this pillar takes the excesses of woke and
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  the kind of virtue signaling of welcomes to country acknowledgements of country land
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  acknowledgments and it says not only is this kind of an irritating sort of lefty bubble
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  but that it is a way of trying to make us feel like we're permanently guilty and fundamentally illegitimate
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  in this country let's continue and say how it doesn't that's you're getting steadily worse
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  every year so it's not really about the past which cannot be fixed it's about the future
• 26:54
  and what is the future that they have planned for you of course if they're telling you because
• 27:01
  what is the message well the message is it's not your country well that's exactly what the
• 27:05
  message is it's very explicit I went to church yesterday I want to see the church in the
• 27:10
  denomination that I belong to or did before I left because it became pagan but I went you have
• 27:16
  a giant cathedral in this city built by you know my denomination which is the church of England
• 27:22
  I'm ashamed to say and as I walked in there's not one thing about God of course that's like
• 27:27
  way way in the past there's a huge sign saying basically we apologize for having this church here
• 27:33
  because we stole the land and I thought you know I'm not sure again who that helps but I'm pretty
• 27:40
  sure I know the purpose of it if at every turn they're telling you it's not your country country
• 27:45
  that by the way your ancestors built and they did an amazing job amazing amazing I said and this
• 27:54
  is not flattery I mean I'm literally leaving tomorrow early so I could say whatever I want and you
• 27:59
  can't do anything about it so I'll be back in the United States which is 10,000 miles from here so
• 28:03
  I'm being completely honest the amount of effort that previous generations of Australians would
• 28:08
  into building this country is just shocking to me I had first of all I had no idea Australia was
• 28:13
  so rich in the 19th century wool apparently was a really good business wool and gold note to self
• 28:19
  but they didn't just take the money and build private villas they spent a huge percentage of it
• 28:25
  on public works and built these remarkable I mean I'm in again coming from a country with decayed
• 28:31
  cities and I you know I went out to Perth and of course everyone these coasts makes fun of Perth
• 28:36
  relentlessly but in a very sort of dry passive aggressive Australian way and I don't know anything
• 28:41
  about it it's not my world so I'm like I'm going to Perth tomorrow what's that like oh well you know
• 28:45
  it's far away what does that mean what it means we don't like Perth so I was not expecting much
• 28:54
  and I was shocked by it it was like a San Francisco without the junkies it was like one of the
• 28:58
  prettiest places I've ever been and I feel that way about all of your cities so I mean somebody
• 29:05
  spent a lot of years and a lot of money and a lot of back breaking effort to build what you have
• 29:11
  now and it's just remarkable but rather than being proud of it the people who run your country
• 29:16
  are telling you you should be ashamed of it and that it doesn't belong to you you have no claim to
• 29:21
  it at all so just to know what's happening here he's talking about cities again he said this at
• 29:26
  the beginning that the Australian cities are really nice and not like San Francisco they don't
• 29:29
  have a bunch of junkies they don't have a lot of homeless people and that 19th century Australians
• 29:34
  when they got rich off wool invested a huge amount in this country and we should be grateful for
• 29:39
  he even says the word public works public works and why does Australia not have the levels of
• 29:46
  poverty that the United States has and one large reason is because we've been more committed to public
• 29:52
  welfare we've been more of a social democracy along the lines of continental Europe not as far
• 29:57
  as the Scandinavian countries but probably halfway between them and the United States then
• 30:02
  America is and Tucker is on the side of politics that most consistently opposes social safety net
• 30:10
  programs you know Medicare for all you know a proper robust minimum wage so that you can bolster
• 30:17
  the middle class and achieve the sort of prosperity that cities like Perth exhibit policies that
• 30:25
  run counter to the rampant inequality that can be seen in the United States that are much more
• 30:31
  egalitarian and redistributive which is not normally championed by his side of politics but those
• 30:37
  public works that history of public infrastructure that history of egalitarianism in in the Australian
• 30:43
  tradition is what we should be grateful for and what welcomes to country and land acknowledgments
• 30:50
  and recognition of indigenous custodianship of the land is supposed us to make us feel guilty
• 30:57
  so again he's weaving these threads between unrelated issues and saying not only is it misguided
• 31:04
  to be doing these recognitions of indigenous land ownership but that it is a cynical way for elites
• 31:11
  for shadowy cabals of people and this will will someday open the door to his conversations about Jews
• 31:18
  because the shadowiest cabal always comes back to Jews financiers bankers and international
• 31:24
  conspiracy of some kind in which the Jews are always implicated but even if you exclude you know
• 31:28
  the overtones of anti-Semitism after we've seen what ended up where he's ended up now with
• 31:33
  Nick Fuentes even if you just look at the spirit of ungenerosity with which he interprets things
• 31:39
  that he dislikes so in this kind of patina of like I'm just asking questions I'm just a regular guy
• 31:45
  I'm just standing up for your rights I'm just standing up for decency he's sowing seeds of
• 31:50
  they're not only doing this in order to you know the airlines are not only doing land
• 31:54
  acknowledgments the church is not only putting up a gesture of solidarity with indigenous
• 31:59
  custodianship of the land because they're virtue signaling to their peers and they want to look
• 32:04
  like they're on the right side of history and they're pandering to a kind of a meme mob
• 32:09
  but actually they're doing it intentionally they're doing it because they want Australians
• 32:14
  to not feel proud of the things that their forefathers did which incidentally are things that
• 32:19
  tuck a car some side of politics does not support so inconsistent to say the least let's continue
• 32:27
  so the conventional understanding of this is well this is just what it is to be guilty you're
• 32:32
  in a prosperous country and you feel guilty but that's not actually what it's about
• 32:36
  because making people feel guilty doesn't help anybody right no they're telling you it's not
• 32:42
  your country so that they can take it away from you and you won't resist when they do
• 32:47
  because it doesn't belong to you in the first place okay so now we're getting explicit about what
• 32:52
  was previously just implicit the reason why we're being told that we should feel guilty for our
• 32:59
  civilization and that the land we're standing on is actually the land of people who were here
• 33:04
  for tens of thousands of years before our ancestors arrived is so that they can take it away from us
• 33:11
  and we won't have a lake to stand on because we've already seated that it's not ours
• 33:17
  and if there's one message that I hope I could pass on and by the way I feel a little guilty
• 33:23
  lecturing you about your country since I've been here two weeks and I know nothing
• 33:26
  and there's nothing worse than a foreigner lecturing you about your own country
• 33:30
  well I'm just I'm thinking through the hostility I feel when Bono comes to my country and
• 33:34
  starts lecturing me go back to Dublin or whatever you know what I mean please leave foreigner
• 33:42
  so I don't want to be that preachy person at all at all I'm saying this with respect but with
• 33:46
  actual concern I'm telling you anyone who tells you this is not your country will take it away from
• 33:54
  you and plans to do that and they do plan to do that that's super obvious to me it's really obvious
• 34:02
  to me and this is not an attack on you know any other country by the way I know you all are
• 34:08
  completely paranoid about China and you have every reason to be I don't fault the Chinese for
• 34:14
  that if I have the Chinese the first thing I would do is take over Australia is the first thing I
• 34:17
  would do I've got a country of 1.4 billion that's crowded with not enough natural resources and
• 34:25
  not that far away as an entire continent with 26 million people it's got more resources that could
• 34:29
  ever use I'd take over that country immediately and I wouldn't do it with warships I just buy
• 34:34
  their politicians and my sense is yours aren't very expensive at all in fact one hilarious thing I've
• 34:44
  noticed again since I don't know anything about Australia so you ask really stupid questions so I
• 34:48
  learned that one of your parties is the labor party and that's the party of labor you know okay
• 34:53
  no but this is the hilarious part from my perspective so I'm like going through a list of leaders
• 34:58
  and I'm like okay what trade are they in are they electricians forklift drivers plumbers miners
• 35:06
  none of those ever had a job there's no actual labor in the leadership of the labor party they're
• 35:12
  all parasites on the taxpayer it's hilarious you don't see the humor in that when the laziest people
• 35:24
  in your country call themselves the labor party really if you're the labor party why do you get a
• 35:31
  job none of them ever had a job they can't do anything oh it's so funny can you change the tire of
• 35:36
  my truck my air conditioner broke can you get over here and fix it oh I'm sorry you've only worked
• 35:41
  in the government why don't you go away and shut up and the last thing you're allowed to do is tell
• 35:46
  me that it's not my country when you have literally no skills you would starve to death without your
• 35:52
  I mean I guess this is a good punchline I don't I can't tell is he just unfamiliar with the
• 35:57
  terminology of the way that center left parties are labeled outside of the United States I mean
• 36:03
  this all of these same criticisms could be made of the democratic party and in fact he goes on
• 36:06
  to admit that but labor is just a word that countries like New Zealand and Australia and the UK
• 36:13
  used to talk about their central left parties however I will acknowledge there's a there's a
• 36:19
  a germ of a real criticism here which is that representative democracies were founded on the idea
• 36:25
  that people from the regular community would go to the capital city and they would judiciously
• 36:31
  assess consider and consider in an even-handed way the concerns of the nation and they would
• 36:36
  pass laws and then those laws would be enacted and basically those representatives would be
• 36:40
  enacting the will of the people rather than having some kind of a complicated messy direct
• 36:45
  democracy where everyone was constantly voting on a specific referendum all the time like they
• 36:50
  sort of do a little bit in California and Switzerland and places like that so yes the the corrosion of
• 36:56
  the idea of representation by regular people from the community into the evolution of political
• 37:02
  parties where there are full-time politicians who spend their entire lives as politicians
• 37:07
  vying with each other to get elected and to scramble up the greasy ladder of internal politics that
• 37:13
  is a real problem and he's pointing to a real thing um I don't think that that has anything to
• 37:19
  do with whether or not you the labor party should be called the labor party because it's staffed by
• 37:24
  professional politicians instead of laborers that's not the point of the name it's supposed to be
• 37:28
  the party that represents the working people rather than the party that can get consists of truck
• 37:33
  drivers that was never the intention of the labor party and it doesn't report to be on the issue of
• 37:37
  China he's also touching a raw nerve there again it's something that is true there is a strained
• 37:43
  relationship between Australia which is the only big western democracy in the part of the world
• 37:49
  that China regards as being its patch so Australia is torn between its strategic loyalty to the
• 37:56
  United States and NATO and Europe and the UK on the one hand and its economic and geographical ties
• 38:02
  to China this is a real conundrum for Australia probably the biggest conundrum uh over the course of
• 38:06
  this century along with dealing with the impacts of climate chaos but none of these things are
• 38:11
  aided by simply making a quip about how the first thing that you would do if you were China is
• 38:16
  invade Australia uh although buying off the politicians is another true barb so this is all just
• 38:24
  to point out the way in which he drops breadcrums of truth in order to construct the narrative we've
• 38:28
  got the fact that politicians are disengaged they don't come from the community they're now
• 38:32
  professional politicians they're more beholden to each other and to corporations and to lobbyists
• 38:37
  the global elite than they are to the little guy is making that point with regard to the labor
• 38:42
  party uh the fact that we are too beholden to China's economic interests and also he doesn't say
• 38:48
  this but the it's it would be implicit in most of the audience's minds to our strategic relationship
• 38:53
  with the United States that is also a true thing that is being brought up the fact that our
• 38:58
  wrestling with our history with indigenous Australians has become performative and difficult and
• 39:04
  complicated and irksome for many people this is also true and this is why I've been saying for
• 39:10
  years that you know the left side of politics should be careful about how much they antagonize
• 39:14
  Middle Australia and Middle America because it allows people to be more vulnerable to
• 39:19
  narratives like this but without blaming the victim he is being able to establish this kind of
• 39:25
  cathedral of of a story that makes sense because each of these little pillars that he's laying down
• 39:32
  is consistent with the vision that he's trying to build I mean trust me I'm not making fun I mean
• 39:39
  I live in a country you know that's run by the exact same kind of people Joe Biden has been leaching
• 39:44
  off the taxpayer since I was three years old and I'm 55 actually my entire lifetime Joe Biden
• 39:51
  has been getting rich without working at taxpayer expense and also this may be recognizable selling
• 39:56
  influence to China but I'm just here to tell you as a representative from a country that's
• 40:03
  sort of farther on down the road that it absolutely does not end well at all and we've lived
• 40:10
  with this for many years we also by the way didn't understand that the purpose of making native
• 40:15
  born Americans feel guilty about living in America was not to write any historic injustice it was
• 40:21
  not to help any marginalized group they've zero interest in that obviously our marginalized groups
• 40:25
  have become more marginalized over the past 50 years of talking about them incessantly they're
• 40:30
  doing worse they haven't been helped at all so marginalized groups are doing worse now than they
• 40:36
  were 50 years ago that's just not true according to most metrics he also uses an interesting
• 40:43
  turn of phrase when he's talking about native Americans he literally said native born Americans
• 40:49
  it's very close to native Americans they were also people living in America before Europeans showed
• 40:54
  up you know tuck but native born Americans is a way for us to talk about essentially kind of
• 41:00
  white Americans I mean let's face it because most of the criticism that he's got are about too much
• 41:05
  immigration and he'll get to more of that in a second but native born Americans has sort of a
• 41:11
  nice ring to it and it elevates people who were born there from the immigrants who don't belong here
• 41:17
  in a country like Australia it happens to be the case that the majority of the population has
• 41:21
  arrived since the Second World War so although I am a native born Australian my mother isn't and my
• 41:27
  father isn't and that's a totally normal thing for an Australian family to have so to single out
• 41:33
  the people who may have been born here or not born here in a multi ethnic high migrant society like
• 41:39
  the United States or Australia is just worth noticing the way that he's doing it and it's a
• 41:44
  helpful way for him to avoid talking about demographics ethnicity and race so he goes on to talk about
• 41:49
  whether or not the point of the elites making us all feel guilty about our past and guilty about
• 41:54
  our western values and guilty for being native born Australians or Americans whether the point is
• 41:58
  actually to help marginalized people which who he claims have not improved but I mean the black
• 42:03
  Americans are better off than they were a half a century ago you know again there is a germ of
• 42:08
  truth in all of this which is that the highly performative race riots reckoning of 2020 the summer
• 42:15
  of riots the black lives matter movement all of these things had a certain air of sanctimoniousness
• 42:22
  that was detached from the real lived experience of black people we can see that more people of color
• 42:27
  were supportive of Donald Trump this time round and they were the first time the Democrats face a
• 42:32
  real crisis in their coalition building because so many migrant communities and so many disenfranchised
• 42:39
  communities are frankly more interested in bread and butter issues and in staving off culture war
• 42:44
  issues and they're fundamentally more socially conservative than the kinds of people who run the
• 42:48
  Democratic Party that this is a real crisis taking that real crisis the identity crisis in the
• 42:55
  United States which he is imposing I think a little bit too aggressively onto Australia where it's
• 42:59
  less pressing and saying not only is the performative leftism and sort of guilt inducing black
• 43:08
  armband view of history not helping minority communities and he's probably right about that but
• 43:14
  that minority communities have not been helped at all over the past half century which is factually
• 43:20
  untrue so Tucker goes back to saying all right what is the purpose of the people who are making us
• 43:26
  feel this guilty what are they trying to achieve so that's not the point by the way if that was
• 43:31
  the point I'd be like well you know okay I get a lecture once in a while my taxes are higher but
• 43:36
  at least it's helping somebody I guess I'm a liberal enough to think that's you know I could
• 43:40
  probably live with that but if the people are supposedly helping you're getting more desperate
• 43:44
  every year my country's getting crappier every year maybe that's not the point and I suspect I'm
• 43:50
  just guessing that you're living with something very very similar yes so I would look I know the
• 43:58
  United States a long way way it's 10,000 miles from me to get home I'm gonna make a suggestion I
• 44:03
  would suggest that every person in this room scrimp and save for however long it takes
• 44:08
  and buy a round trip ticket to London in the next couple years no I'm serious because like a lot
• 44:14
  who I have the great advantage of coming from a country that was born in dislike of the English
• 44:18
  even though obviously I am part English heavily English I'm a self-hating Britain but in my country
• 44:26
  you know we exist because we broke off from Great Britain but the three other countries that
• 44:30
  didn't which would be Australia New Zealand and Canada all three have this attitude that Britain
• 44:37
  is somehow kind of the mothership still it's like the most impressive place and these attitudes come
• 44:45
  from that country and you should go see it it's disgusting it's disgusting no I'm serious it's
• 44:52
  disgusting and from 1945 until present Britain's had been told that you're terrible that you're
• 44:58
  somehow guilty of some non-specified crime normal people are the criminals in Great Britain
• 45:03
  and by employing that method of psychological control that siop which is exactly what it is they
• 45:09
  have managed to turn that country into a slum this is an interesting aside about Britain because
• 45:15
  the UK is copying a lot of criticism at the moment and it is in a rough spot I mean for a lot of
• 45:20
  reasons some of the reasons are uncontrolled migration some of the reasons are you know these
• 45:24
  right-wing talking points about their difficulty of assimilating such large numbers especially
• 45:29
  of conservative Muslim communities into the rest of the United Kingdom and what to do about the
• 45:33
  demographic anxiety that white Britons feel about their country changing so much but tied up in
• 45:40
  that in the UK is surely also the failure of successive governments to fund the NHS properly the
• 45:48
  national health service the failure of successive governments to do community building and community
• 45:53
  policing the failure of successive governments to invest adequately in education the failure of
• 45:57
  vision really that we've had for the past 25 years in the United Kingdom and a lot of this is on
• 46:05
  Tucker Carlson's side of politics and I know that he plays this game of being like I'm beholden
• 46:09
  to no man but let's face it I mean he is on the conservative side of American politics and
• 46:13
  conservatives in Britain and the United States consistently cut the programs that could have enabled
• 46:18
  the UK to more functionally deal with its high rates of immigration to more functionally deal with
• 46:24
  the decaying health service to more functionally deal with the education of both its native born
• 46:28
  population and also of migrants who need to be integrated into the communities so it's a bit
• 46:32
  glib to just say we're holding up Britain as this bastion but what's really won't go to Britain
• 46:38
  and you'll see that it's a slum firstly there are lots of reasons why Britain's problems exist
• 46:43
  and many of them attributable to conservatives not just to immigration and the left and second
• 46:49
  it's not a slum everywhere it is grappling with horrendous rates of inequality which the United
• 46:54
  States also is go to parts of London which are well to do and they're extremely well to do a lot
• 46:59
  of Russian oligarchs and Arab oil shakes doing just fine in the United Kingdom and Tucker Carlson
• 47:05
  is on the record as applauding Putin's Russia he's quite fine with doing deals with whoever
• 47:12
  you have to do deals with he's quite down on American exceptionalism and really American interests
• 47:18
  in general he's a kind of fly by night tap dancing polyanna guy who will take whatever he can take
• 47:25
  and do whatever he needs to do in order to maintain this sort of I'm just asking questions narrative
• 47:30
  about the world as a complicated place but fundamentally Christianity and Western civilization
• 47:34
  are the best now there are grains of truth in the claim that Western civilization is a great
• 47:40
  thing there are grains of truth that Christianity has contributed a lot to human civilization
• 47:45
  but for him to identify the problems of the United Kingdom and place them solely at the feet of
• 47:50
  what is is he implying diversity and immigration I guess with no regard for what right wing global
• 47:59
  capital has done to the United Kingdom it's a little bit evasive it's a little bit rich especially
• 48:05
  coming from him he is on the side of politics that is much more comfortable with high rates of
• 48:10
  inequality I mean the the the the the private opulence of places like London versus the public
• 48:18
  squalor is in part a consequence of under investment in its cities under investment in government
• 48:24
  programs and under investment in the kinds of public goods which just 10 minutes ago Tucker Carlson
• 48:30
  was saying had done Australia so well in the past and if you haven't been there recently you
• 48:35
  should and I was thinking about it this week when Julian Assange finally get out of a British prison
• 48:39
  after five and a half years I visited him there a few months ago at Belmarsh I got so upset sitting
• 48:48
  in my barn in Maine in the middle of nowhere thinking about Assange and I just called his wife and said
• 48:52
  I want to come over and see him which I did and I visited him at the prison and the prison was
• 48:57
  slightly better than the surrounding city I thought just in terms of cheerfulness
• 49:03
  but what I'm seeing I'm serious it is a is a fog shrouded slum but I asked her and him
• 49:10
  we're meeting with him there at Belmarsh after being stripped searched I managed to get my nicotine
• 49:15
  patches in anyway yeah that's right some things are worth committing crimes for but anyway not to brag
• 49:24
  I'm never going there again so I can say this but I said you like what have you been charged with
• 49:29
  nothing never charged with the crime and great Britain and they held him in maximum security
• 49:34
  basically trying to torture him to death for five and a half years after seven years locked away
• 49:39
  in the Ecuadorian embassy never charged him with a crime and I thought to myself this is a criticism
• 49:44
  but I mean it in the best way like what about your country of birth where are they in this
• 49:48
  why didn't you sail a worship up the Thames and get your man out and I'll tell you exactly why
• 49:55
  which is because your leaders genuinely reflect before that country and they shouldn't because the truth
• 50:02
  is they have no moral authority this is such a nicer place than that you should go from your cities
• 50:10
  to their cities and ask a really simple question who's doing a better job you are you're doing a
• 50:15
  better job and you should also go because that could be your future if you don't get control
• 50:22
  this is vintage Tucker for me the master of populism and I don't really have any criticism
• 50:29
  of everything that he just said I mean the imprisonment in incarceration the hounding of
• 50:34
  Julian Assange was terrible the response of successive Australian governments was Craven and
• 50:41
  and Tucker Carlson's instinct which is to sort of tap the idea that we should be bolstering the
• 50:48
  little guy that we should be having pride in things that other people tell us we should be ashamed
• 50:53
  of that we should feel like we can stand up to the man is extremely powerful especially as
• 51:00
  populations become more and more disoriented and feel more and more powerless in an increasingly
• 51:04
  confusing and globalized and algorithmic world he's right why didn't Australia at least
• 51:11
  metaphorically send a warship up the Thames I mean when the United States was complicit in
• 51:17
  incarcerating Julian Assange the you know the sort of the silence from Australian governments the
• 51:24
  lack of pressure the lack of seriousness about drawing a line in the sand and saying the human
• 51:30
  rights of this individual will not be traversed and we are a significant enough country to insist
• 51:37
  that you respond to our concerns about this that was absent now I would say that what's to blame
• 51:44
  more than Craven or a sense of inferiority is is this tradition of diplomatic nicety about the
• 51:49
  way that countries are supposed to behave with each other and it's that diplomatic nicety which
• 51:54
  you know president Trump is so good at detonating and blowing up and saying well why do we have to do
• 51:59
  things this way why can't I just tell my allies to fuck off unless they pay me more money
• 52:03
  and there's appeal in that to people who feel like they've been screwed over and stabbed in the back
• 52:08
  by officials and elites who have always just tried to tap dance around in their own norms without
• 52:13
  actually standing up for the little guy so I mean on this particular point I think Tucker is both
• 52:20
  sort of populist and compelling and cynical and right and by get control I mean you cannot allow
• 52:30
  them to make you feel guilty for being Australian that you cannot allow them to tell you this is
• 52:36
  not your nation when your ancestors built it you were born here you pay taxes to that government
• 52:41
  no it doesn't help anybody it doesn't mean you're sensitive it means you are Craven
• 52:47
  and being prepared to be hurt and I think it's already happening I was so impressed by a couple of
• 52:52
  your cities I'll just give you a perfect example that I started looking up your real estate listings
• 52:58
  because I thought I don't know if I'm welcome here probably not but if I ever made any money I'd
• 53:03
  like to get a place here because it's like unbelievable it's so pretty and the people are so nice
• 53:08
  and I do want to see the attacking magpies so I was like I definitely want to come back
• 53:12
  so I'd heard it was kind of I was in city to this guy I looked it up and then I thought well
• 53:17
  that obviously this is in Lira or pesos or something this is not these are not real numbers
• 53:23
  and I was I was like what is the Australian dollar you know and so I got my little calculator
• 53:27
  out into the conversion rate and even after discounting by whatever 25 percent it was so much more
• 53:33
  that I could afford and I have a decent job I was like how does anybody live here how does the
• 53:41
  average Australian making I don't even know what your average wage is 100 grand something in that
• 53:44
  range ish no that's too high how do you live here I mean that's like exactly so then I asked someone
• 53:56
  I was traveling with your housing prices and not just on Sydney Harbor but just like normal houses
• 54:00
  you know far from Sydney Harbor are so expensive how does anybody live here and this person
• 54:06
  is so increasingly they don't they have to leave a lot of homeless people all of a sudden I said
• 54:11
  that sounds like a crisis why is it happening well one of the reasons is happening is a principal
• 54:17
  we call supply and demand and when there's a greater demand for something than there is a supply
• 54:22
  the price rises and that is purely a matter of population if you have more people than you have
• 54:29
  houses guess what happens to housing prices they rise this is the most obvious principle in nature
• 54:35
  and real estate okay this is interesting he is now getting to the biggest concern that most Australians
• 54:41
  have which is the highest the price of housing and the cost of living he frames this once again
• 54:47
  this is a classic Tucker trick take something that is true take potentially another explanation for
• 54:54
  it which is also true in many other scenarios make it the only explanation and then you've got a
• 55:00
  new pillar that reinforces your world view so the thing that is true here is that houses are very
• 55:05
  expensive in Australia and also expensive that Tucker Carlson can't afford one I don't know I love
• 55:11
  he keeps going on with this stick about how oh it's too expensive for me to afford to live out how many
• 55:16
  years were you the number one person on Fox News how many listeners does your podcast have how much
• 55:20
  are you getting paid to go around the world doing speeches like this Tucker you can afford a two to
• 55:24
  three million dollar house in Sydney if you want one but suffice to say many people can't and so
• 55:29
  he's putting his finger on a very real thing and then he says as an explanation something that's
• 55:33
  also true which is that it's about supply and demand the cost of anything is about supply and
• 55:37
  demand any economist will tell you that so he establishes those two true things the houses are
• 55:42
  expensive and when things are expensive the cause is supply and demand and then he just neatly
• 55:50
  aligns one half of the supply and demand equation which is supply he goes straight to demand the
• 55:58
  demand question is how many people need a house the supply question is how many houses are there
• 56:04
  he treats the housing stock as if it was fixed and the immigration as if it was variable when both
• 56:11
  of course a variable he's already talked earlier in the show about how we've only got 26 million
• 56:16
  people and we're in a massive continent there's heaps and heaps of land there could be a lot more
• 56:20
  accommodations for people to live in he's only talking now about the immigration about
• 56:26
  immigration's impact on house prices now again there's a kernel of truth in his analysis of the
• 56:33
  way that conversations have gone wrong around all of this stuff because it is taboo in Australia in
• 56:39
  many places to talk about immigration being a contributing factor to high property prices
• 56:46
  when the opposition leader Peter Dutton tried to the former opposition leader tried to raise
• 56:51
  this at a speech last year one of Australia's most prominent and respected journalists gave a speech
• 56:57
  and said that he was doing racist dog whistles I mean he was trying to make the point that if you
• 57:02
  import a half a million new people into the country every year you can't expect it not to have an
• 57:07
  impact on house prices they have to live somewhere and we're not building at the pace that we need
• 57:11
  to be building to accommodate all those new people that also puts pressures on hospitals it puts
• 57:14
  pressure on schools it puts pressure on roads it puts puts pressure on public public infrastructure
• 57:19
  transport all of those things are true and it has become too taboo to talk about them and one of
• 57:23
  the reasons why I've kept banging on and becomes such a you know when annoying anti woke lefty
• 57:28
  over been recent years and have copped so much criticism from people on the left for being I don't
• 57:33
  know some kind of right-winger in sheep's clothing or like the radical centrist always being trying
• 57:38
  to be contrarian and you know heterodox about everything is because I can see that if we make these
• 57:44
  issues taboo to talk about in a reasonable way then unreasonable people like Tucker Carlson will
• 57:49
  be able to manipulate them he is right that we should be able to talk about the impact of immigration
• 57:55
  on property prices he is wrong that the only reason why property prices are high is because of
• 58:01
  immigration there is also zoning rules there's how high can you build there's a tax inducements
• 58:07
  there's negative gearing there's whether or not you can subdivide a property to create multiple
• 58:11
  properties on it there's whether or not old people should be able to live in 10 million dollar
• 58:15
  properties even if they don't have a lot of income without paying any property tax on it there's
• 58:19
  the way that we expand cities they're the way that inner cities go up there's a million and one
• 58:24
  ways in which any economist of housing will be able to tell you that we have control we have back
• 58:29
  ourselves into this corner where property prices keep having an upward pressure and immigration is
• 58:34
  one little part of that it is one tiny part of an overall mosaic but the overall mosaic doesn't fit
• 58:41
  the narrative that Tucker Carlson is trying to build so he focuses on one thing he takes the grain
• 58:46
  of truth that house prices are too high the second grain of truth that supply and demand is always
• 58:52
  the cause of any phenomenon in the economy and a third grain of truth which is that it has been
• 58:58
  too taboo to talk about immigration as being a component of this and then he jumbles the more
• 59:02
  up and spits out again this alchemy this kind of gold thread of like now we have yet another reason
• 59:10
  yet another pillar of the cathedral that he is building in order for us to understand that all
• 59:14
  of our woes are attributable to the things that he wants us to believe they're attributable to
• 59:18
  namely us being told that we don't belong here us being told that Western civilization has
• 59:23
  something to be guilty of us being told that you know we just have to sit down and shut up and
• 59:29
  that the elites know how to run everything and this allows him to to construct this world view
• 59:35
  and to reinforce our sort of I would say petty concerns with arousing bolstering populist
• 59:43
  energy as to yeah these things aren't complicated multifactorial problems that are difficult
• 59:50
  for economists and public policy makers to get their head around they're all just part of this
• 59:56
  one big narrative which is that we're being stabbed in the back by elites who don't care about us
• 1:00:01
  and it's time to step up and so if I'm running a country one of my top concerns is making sure that
• 1:00:07
  young people people in their say late 20s or early 30s can afford a house because my main goal
• 1:00:13
  is to create households and a new generation of Australians or Americans or Kiwis or whatever
• 1:00:19
  and so if it becomes too difficult too expensive for your children to buy a house in the country they
• 1:00:26
  were born in you're erased that's it your line ends and that's what's happening you see it in the
• 1:00:33
  birth rates this is true in my country too I'm not there's not a lecture give you I'm watching
• 1:00:36
  this happen and in candidates completely out of control so why is it happening immigration
• 1:00:42
  there's only one reason that's the reason there's only one reason that's the reason why people
• 1:00:47
  can't afford houses which means that they can't pass on a life to their children which means
• 1:00:55
  that they are being erased for one reason immigration and nobody wants to say that because it sounds
• 1:01:04
  like an attack on immigrants which you know and by the way that's how they get you to shut up
• 1:01:09
  shut up racist okay got it but I'll just speak as honestly as I possibly can the last group
• 1:01:14
  I hate immigrants I actually really like immigrants to my country I'll just say my country
• 1:01:18
  and we've led in 30 million illegally in the last four years that's more than your entire
• 1:01:23
  population so that's a crime that's the greatest crime in American history totally destroy my
• 1:01:27
  country but I'm still not mad at the people who came because I would too that's how I feel about
• 1:01:33
  immigration you're coming to my country because you think it's the greatest in the world well we're
• 1:01:37
  in agreement on that I'm flattered by immigration by the desire of people from around the world to
• 1:01:42
  come to my country I would want to go there also it's like people saying your wife is hot yeah
• 1:01:46
  I think so thank you you can't have her but I'm glad that you noticed so it's not there's not
• 1:01:53
  an attack on immigrants they always try to make it about immigrants oh you're attacking immigrant
• 1:01:56
  no I'm attacking you actually I like the immigrants I don't like you and the reason I don't like you
• 1:02:03
  leader of my country is because this policy is making it impossible for our children to live here
• 1:02:11
  and to have the lives that we provided for them not you know crazy fancy lives but like a
• 1:02:16
  middle-class house with three bedrooms on a quarter acre is that too much to ask it shouldn't be
• 1:02:21
  especially in a country the size of a continent where nobody lives in the middle of it's like a
• 1:02:24
  donut it's bizarre I flew over it there's nobody here this is funny he's saying there's nobody
• 1:02:31
  here in Australia so you know why why should house prices be so high when there's so much land
• 1:02:37
  yes exactly dumb dumb that means that it's not only a problem of demand it's not only a problem
• 1:02:42
  of immigration it's not a problem of Australia being overcrowded and having too many people it's
• 1:02:46
  a policy failure across a whole bunch of different metrics so I completely agree yes we've been
• 1:02:51
  betrayed by successive leaders who have not done enough to address the need of Australians to
• 1:02:56
  have affordable housing for their children but to blame it to say that there is one cause immigration
• 1:03:02
  and then in the next breath to say the Australia is empty those two things are contradictory if
• 1:03:08
  Australia is empty we should be able to bring in another hundred million people wouldn't have
• 1:03:11
  any impact on house prices if we were building enough houses on the supply side which he doesn't
• 1:03:17
  talk about so all of a sudden if your children can't afford a house here then you have one person
• 1:03:23
  to blame and that's the people around your government and by the way nobody does
• 1:03:31
  because you're not allowed to and by the way in Great Britain for example Canada for example
• 1:03:36
  your closest cousins your parent and first cousin people go to jail for noticing you literally
• 1:03:43
  go to jail you don't like what the government's doing do you shut up racist when you go to jail
• 1:03:47
  they send people to jail you can't send people to jail every day and not for standing in you know
• 1:03:52
  hide park and scream if we're writing it on Facebook so imagine a government that totally
• 1:03:59
  destroys the country which is criminal behavior and then criminalized as complaining about it
• 1:04:08
  that's not a legitimate government that's a tyranny that's a tyranny
• 1:04:13
  so here again is how the left is kind of tied itself up in knots and left itself enormously
• 1:04:19
  vulnerable to populace the like of Takakowski this sensoriousness this kind of attack on free
• 1:04:25
  speech this hysteria about anyone who's expressing a controversial or uncomfortable opinion on
• 1:04:30
  social media or elsewhere is coming back to bite us in the ass what he's talking about is a real
• 1:04:35
  problem the fact that in the United Kingdom you know I mean I was on a panel show here in Australia
• 1:04:40
  Q&A last year with the e-safety commissioner who is the well she's not there in the post anymore but
• 1:04:46
  she was the person who was essentially looking out for digital safety and online safety and a lot
• 1:04:52
  of what that had to do with was cracking down not just on bullying but also on hate speech and
• 1:04:56
  incitements to violence and on this television program I got into an argument with her about whether
• 1:05:01
  or not it was an incitement to violence for people like Douglas Murray and Elon Musk during the
• 1:05:07
  riots in the UK in the last summer not this past one but in summer of last year to say that civil
• 1:05:14
  war is inevitable for example and that if the government doesn't do something about immigration
• 1:05:18
  and doesn't do something about better integrating migrant communities then the UK is going to
• 1:05:23
  suffer enormous civil strife now it may be tackless to say such a thing it may be in
• 1:05:29
  politics to say such a thing it may even be inflammatory to say such a thing but the claim that
• 1:05:35
  it is specific incitement to violence which should be taken down from social media and potentially
• 1:05:39
  prosecuted which these kinds of remarks are in the UK Canada are less familiar with don't know
• 1:05:44
  what they're doing over there but you know Graham Lennon was arrested at the airport arriving from
• 1:05:49
  the United States into the UK for transphobic tweets because he you know yes he's he's unusually
• 1:05:56
  obsessed with this particular issue and he believes that you know biological sex is basic and that
• 1:06:00
  anyone who claims to be a sex other than the one that they were assigned at birth is you know
• 1:06:05
  illegitimate and should not be given the courtesy of treating them as if their gender is different
• 1:06:09
  from their biological sex whatever it's a big world we live in a big democracy where you know
• 1:06:14
  we're smart people we should be capacious enough in our conversations to be able to tolerate
• 1:06:19
  people we disagree we're then to shoot down their ideas by attacking those ideas not by arresting
• 1:06:23
  those people we've left ourselves enormously vulnerable to people like Tucker Carson because we've
• 1:06:28
  lost the ability to have reason debates with one another where we go after each other on the
• 1:06:33
  content of what we're talking about rather than waving placards and trying to hound people and
• 1:06:37
  trying to get them get their publishers to disown them and trying to get them to read out pro
• 1:06:41
  former apologies for ways in which they've been racist or sexist or tinny or the way that they
• 1:06:48
  you know didn't understand what marginalized communities they were offending in their in their
• 1:06:51
  work and they're going to try to do better and all this sort of stuff and now that we're a point
• 1:06:55
  at a point at which things are so white hot in some places like the UK on issues like this that
• 1:07:01
  even to talk about the question of I mean look at the conversation around grooming gangs in the UK
• 1:07:07
  for example where there were literal criminal networks of South Asian I believe they were cab drivers
• 1:07:13
  who were trading teenage girls and getting them addicted to drugs and pimping them out and so on
• 1:07:19
  and there was a sense that this was somewhat overlooked by the police in the UK because it was
• 1:07:23
  like well this is just one of those communities you know these are these are sort of dodgy poor girls
• 1:07:28
  from broken homes in the first place so they're probably kind of asking for it and we don't want
• 1:07:32
  to go stomping in and kicking heads in this migrant community because we have to be tackful towards
• 1:07:36
  the different ways of doing things and you know don't ask too many questions and just trust the
• 1:07:40
  community leaders when they say that they've got a hold of it and they're onto it and everything
• 1:07:44
  it was absolutely shameful and there was too way too much emphasis on multicultural sensitivity
• 1:07:50
  and not feeling like you're the white colonial imperial savior of trying to crack down on these
• 1:07:56
  unduly indecent hordes who were living in your midst instead of a hard-nosed attempt to follow
• 1:08:02
  the letter of English law and uncover any instances in which it was being broken all of this this whole
• 1:08:08
  kind of you know progressive identity politics reckoning that has happened on the left has left
• 1:08:13
  us with our pants down when someone like Tucker Carlson comes along and says I should be able to
• 1:08:16
  talk about this stuff you do have a right to decide who comes into this country you do have a right
• 1:08:21
  to be proud of who you are and you certainly have a right not to be arrested for making the case
• 1:08:27
  even if it's an erroneous one that property prices are high because there are too many Chinese people
• 1:08:32
  coming into Australia like that should be a part that should be a claim that can be assessed
• 1:08:37
  in public discourse without being booted out and this is the sort of underlying you know
• 1:08:42
  sort of conundrum that I'm trying to wrestle with here and I don't have an easy answer to it because
• 1:08:46
  I don't think that Nick Fuentes has claimed that organized jury is behind most of the world's
• 1:08:52
  problems is a problem that ought to be aired and wrestled with because it's not a very clever idea
• 1:08:57
  and it's pretty easy to see that there's no way to falsify it like it's not a claim that you can
• 1:09:04
  really engage with because it's essentially just a conspiracy theory on the other hand we do need
• 1:09:11
  to open the envelope up so that people like Tucker Carlson don't just the conversational envelope
• 1:09:16
  that is that the kinds of things that we can talk about in polite society we are getting
• 1:09:20
  hounded out of our jobs by you know angry mobs on Instagram or something or as one colleague of mine
• 1:09:27
  recently did having a non-profit reject his five-figure donation to them because they didn't think
• 1:09:34
  that he was the correct kind of person for them to be associated with talk about shooting
• 1:09:39
  yourself in the foot you know we need to be able to expand the nature of the conversation that we're
• 1:09:43
  having so that it doesn't feel so tight and so constraining and so constipated that people like
• 1:09:48
  Tucker Carlson can weave their web of alchemy and just punch through the whole thing and say look
• 1:09:53
  why can't we just ask questions who are you to say that I don't have the right to talk about the
• 1:09:58
  way that organized cabals of Jews might be ruining everything I think it would be easier to delineate
• 1:10:05
  how silly that conversation is if we had been less hysterical about claiming that a whole bunch
• 1:10:12
  of other much more reasonable conversations were out of bounds and if that were happening in some
• 1:10:19
  widely recognized tyrannical country East Germany 1975 or everyone's under surveillance
• 1:10:25
  by the way I don't think East Germany 1975 which was famously the most surveilled nation in the
• 1:10:30
  history of the world I don't think they had seatbelt cameras I don't no they didn't that was too
• 1:10:39
  far even for Eric Honaker he's like you know that's a little fascist for me I can't do it
• 1:10:45
  so these countries have become including my own had become surveillance states and the point
• 1:10:51
  of that surveillance is not to keep you safe it's to punish you for noticing what they're doing to
• 1:10:57
  your country actually that's not the behavior of a legitimate government and if you think that's
• 1:11:06
  like a right wing point you've bought the lies that's not a right wing point that's a simple observation
• 1:11:13
  about human rights no privacy no freedom not to mention the endless hectoring no it's not your
• 1:11:22
  country I went to buy a pack of cigarettes I quit smoking 10 years ago but I thought you know you
• 1:11:26
  can kind of judge a country by its cigarettes couldn't find them I went in this tobacco store I said
• 1:11:34
  this tobacco store you know many cigarettes oh that's really nice Pakistani guy he's like
• 1:11:39
  kind of shaking his head like I know it's crazy opens up this cabinet and I said what that's
• 1:11:45
  like what the hell is on your cigarettes like I don't even want to smoke him looking at that for
• 1:11:49
  non-Australians what Tucker Carlson is talking about here is that for years Australia has had a
• 1:11:54
  law where cigarettes can't be displayed in public so if you walk into a tobacco and as they have to
• 1:11:57
  be behind a white counter with no like a shelf where there's no signalling on the cigarette pack
• 1:12:04
  itself all cigarette packs look the same there was no longer any marketing cigarette companies aren't
• 1:12:08
  allowed to have brands then I'd like to write their name in a font that they want then I'd
• 1:12:12
  allow to put an insignia on the on the pack the pack is all standardized government issued I mean
• 1:12:17
  not government issue but government mandated packaging so the packs all look the same and they're
• 1:12:21
  covered in grotesque images of people dying of cancer within an enormous label of how it's going
• 1:12:27
  to kill you on it and the only way you can tell one from the other is the fact that once there's
• 1:12:31
  Marlborough and the other one says Benson and Hedges or whatever it might be and they're kept away
• 1:12:36
  so you can't see them I was like you're making me not want to smoke Mr. tobacco store guy and he goes
• 1:12:41
  I know I know and every pack had like a rotten tongue on it or something and again I don't smoke
• 1:12:48
  cigarettes anymore but I'm an adult man who pays his taxes if I wanted to I should be allowed to
• 1:12:53
  right you can certainly you can do fentanyl here with the government's help but you can't smoke
• 1:12:59
  a Marlborough without being lectured it's I did ask how much they cost was 60 bucks for a deck
• 1:13:06
  of 20 and I said to the guy I literally I don't want to smoke and I've never said that in my life
• 1:13:17
  and I know everyone's like well smoking's bad yeah of course smoking's bad lots of things are bad
• 1:13:22
  but it's not really anyone's business is it I guess we're gonna see if that's a good idea I mean
• 1:13:25
  I don't but my kids say it's a good idea but when they're forcing you to do things for your own
• 1:13:32
  good over time you question like is this really for my own good are they just softening me up to a
• 1:13:37
  bay so when it really comes down to it when they want to inject me with some creepy compound that
• 1:13:42
  hasn't been tested that they'll be able to like shoot me with a rubber bullet if I decline
• 1:13:49
  and I'll be so trained to be obedient that I'll kind of put up with it and I won't do what I
• 1:13:58
  should do it's a stage like I don't want to say I'm gonna rest it I shouldn't put up with that
• 1:14:05
  because that is not a free country that's a tyranny and you have absolutely no obligation
• 1:14:10
  under the most basic precepts of human rights and natural law to put up with that for one second
• 1:14:16
  period they
• 1:14:19
  he said something interesting there he caught himself and didn't say what he was gonna say
• 1:14:23
  he said if you know they are trying to essentially groom you into being obedient and get you
• 1:14:29
  acclimatized to abaying everything that they want you to do then it's sort of your obligation to
• 1:14:35
  stand up and not put up with that he said I would stage a and then he caught himself and said
• 1:14:41
  I don't want to get arrested a stage of revolution I don't know I mean obviously he was worried
• 1:14:47
  about the accusation that he was fermenting violence or something by saying that you should
• 1:14:52
  disobey such laws he's putting his finger here a year again on something that's a really
• 1:14:57
  interesting true fact about a place like Australia which as I've mentioned in the past has a
• 1:15:03
  strange relationship to authority Australians love a rule Australians are quite obedient Australians
• 1:15:10
  love to think of ourselves as being devil make care people who were who just shun all rules and
• 1:15:18
  reject authority in actual fact we don't like other people telling us what to do so we don't
• 1:15:24
  like being instructed or bossed around we still have that kind of I suppose convict sensibility
• 1:15:30
  of wanting to be able to get away with things but on the other hand though you put that rule
• 1:15:35
  on a sign or in a law book we are extremely obedient people we love lining up in lines we love
• 1:15:43
  following rules we love a bang speed limits we love lining up to get our vaccines when the
• 1:15:48
  government tells us to and this is a curious fact I mean of all of the Western democracies certainly
• 1:15:55
  in the Anglo Anglosphere Australia and New Zealand were by far the most obedient during COVID
• 1:16:00
  and I don't know whether this is sort of part of our the fact that we're located in East Asia and
• 1:16:06
  have high East Asian populations and so and by the way there's a sociological phenomenon that's
• 1:16:12
  worth being aware of here which is the difference between a horizontal trust and vertical trust in
• 1:16:18
  a society sociologist to talk about how there are some societies that have high horizontal trust
• 1:16:23
  which means trust in your fellow man and there are some that have high vertical trust which means
• 1:16:28
  trust in authority figures and institutions and governments and so on so you can think of
• 1:16:32
  countries that might have very low vertical trust low trust in governments but high horizontal
• 1:16:38
  trust maybe a place like Greece would be somewhere like this where you can leave your door unlocked
• 1:16:41
  but you would never trust the the government and you'd try not to pay taxes and there are other
• 1:16:46
  places where you wouldn't trust your fellow man and you would be very suspicious of strangers in
• 1:16:51
  the street but you would trust authorities to be doing the right thing and this is frequently
• 1:16:56
  characterized as an East Asian outlook in Australia we sort of have both but we certainly have
• 1:17:02
  much more trust vertically than any other comparable country does now the claim that talk so Tucker
• 1:17:09
  once again is taking something that is true and he's putting his finger on it and instead of just
• 1:17:16
  being curious about it and open-minded about it despite all of his rhetoric about like I'm just
• 1:17:20
  asking questions I'm just curious I'm just yeah I'm just interested in things he's not actually
• 1:17:24
  that curious because he doesn't really dig in and go isn't it weird that there's this
• 1:17:29
  Western English-speaking democracy that has this characteristic of just generally being more
• 1:17:35
  obedient than the others and I wonder why that is instead he has the reason for it and his reason
• 1:17:42
  for it always comes back to this narrative that he's trying to build uh you know all credit to him
• 1:17:49
  he's allowed to build whatever narratives he wants to he obviously thinks that this is one that
• 1:17:52
  works and I don't know whether he believes it but it's certainly one that works for him it's
• 1:17:55
  functionally a useful narrative it's compelling it sounds persuasive to the people he wants to
• 1:18:00
  persuade this narrative that everything is basically going to shit because there's a big cabal of
• 1:18:05
  elites who are betraying us and stabbing us in the back and a lot of that has to do with them
• 1:18:09
  trying to replace us trying to denigrate us trying to make us feel guilty trying to import too many
• 1:18:13
  people to essentially eradicate Western civilization Christianity and white people and in this instance
• 1:18:20
  he's doing that by taking this truth about Australian obedience and instead of being genuinely
• 1:18:25
  curious about it and having uncomfortable conversations about why we might be more obedience than
• 1:18:29
  other societies he's saying we're obedient because we've been trained to be obedient by cynical
• 1:18:36
  sinister people who take us one step of the way and try to get us to obey them more and more and
• 1:18:43
  more in a plan to subjugate us eventually and this is why COVID was such an instructive and
• 1:18:51
  useful anecdote for so many people on the libertarian right especially in the United States because they
• 1:18:56
  saw our reaction to COVID and they were like well obviously these people are just being buttered up
• 1:19:01
  for tyranny because if they're willing to tolerate this and Tucker talks about rubber bullets he
• 1:19:06
  talks about it a lot in the rest of the this speech as well which I didn't initially know what he
• 1:19:10
  was talking about because obviously he's seen something on Tik Tok or Instagram reels about some
• 1:19:14
  Australian being shot with rubber bullets maybe for when they were being I don't know during COVID I
• 1:19:20
  don't quite understand but it was having lived here during COVID I can reassure Tucker and all the
• 1:19:25
  Americans it was not a routine fact of life during COVID that we were all getting shot with rubber bullets
• 1:19:30
  in order for the police to be able to jab us in the arms it's entirely possible that when people were
• 1:19:35
  trying to make a break for it out of some mandated quarantine in the height of the pandemic that
• 1:19:42
  happened but I don't know he's referring to necessarily but he is referring to a specific
• 1:19:47
  interesting fact about the Australian population which was that even at the end of COVID the
• 1:19:52
  politicians who were the most aggressive about infringing people's rights during COVID were wildly
• 1:19:59
  popular people loved the lockdowns I mean they loved the sense of certainty and security that
• 1:20:06
  that level of vertical trust gave them in their community and in their overlords that is a very
• 1:20:11
  different sensibility from the American kind of Western frontier model of sort of rugged libertarianism
• 1:20:18
  I think it's simplistic for Tucker to blame it on elites who are trying to persuade us into being
• 1:20:23
  more obedient it is an interesting thing that would be worth exploring but to explore it honestly
• 1:20:29
  would be to undermine the narrative that he's trying to construct so let's just go back to that
• 1:20:34
  are the criminals you are not the criminals they don't care about your country which belongs to you
• 1:20:41
  so when they tell you it's not your country that you're on someone else's land and you should
• 1:20:47
  feel bad about that how is that a democracy it's not a democracy because what's the basic idea
• 1:20:53
  of democracy the citizens own the country it's their country it's that feudal land they're not living
• 1:20:59
  here at the pleasure of the Lord they can't just be shot with rubber bullets so they disagree
• 1:21:06
  with his decrees because they own it they're not renters they're owners that's that's the basic
• 1:21:13
  idea of democracy however it's administered whether it's a parliamentary system whether it's
• 1:21:18
  direct democracy as an Athens whether it's a constitutional republic representative democracy
• 1:21:22
  is the one that I live in the idea never changes the country belongs to its people period
• 1:21:29
  and if they're telling you at every landing of every commercial fight in every government speech
• 1:21:35
  of the entrance to the Anglican church in downtown St. Paul's that is not your country
• 1:21:40
  you cannot put up with that yeah you cannot put up with that so now watch what a masterful speaker
• 1:21:49
  and debater and argue a Tucker Carlson is and how persuasive he can be he's now bringing together
• 1:21:55
  a few different themes I don't know if he plans this in the way that he thinks about the way the
• 1:21:58
  speech is going to unfold or if he's just a natural talent and naturally gifted but he's set up
• 1:22:04
  already being made to feel guilty on the basis of land acknowledgments and being told that the
• 1:22:09
  original custodians of the land still have a claim on it therefore we are basically interlopers
• 1:22:13
  and settlers then he has moved on to covert and coronavirus and our obedience and the vaccines
• 1:22:19
  and apparently all getting shot with rubber bullets by the police both of those two things are
• 1:22:25
  interesting you know grains of truth the Australian acceptance for authority the Australian
• 1:22:32
  love of a rule the Australian obedience during the pandemic and also the extent to which Australia
• 1:22:39
  has brought into this virtue signaling conversation around how we have to constantly be paying
• 1:22:44
  lip service to indigenous land tributes and he's bringing them together and saying that the reason
• 1:22:52
  why you are vulnerable and ripe for the picking by authoritarians who were basically testing you
• 1:23:00
  during covert to see whether or not you would cop being shot with rubber bullets is because you
• 1:23:05
  don't have a backbone because you bought this lie that this is not your country and this is not
• 1:23:09
  your land now it's a persuasive kind of case I don't know to what extent it's true they strike me
• 1:23:18
  as two different phenomena it's certainly clear to me that Australia's overreach during coronavirus
• 1:23:25
  was partly a consequence of happenstance and accident because of how successfully Australia was
• 1:23:30
  able to lock out the virus by closing its borders early on which meant that when the virus
• 1:23:35
  did come here in a more revised form in other words Omicron and well Delta and then Omicron
• 1:23:41
  the those waves especially the Delta wave which was just as everybody was getting vaccinated
• 1:23:46
  could have been a lot lot worse than it was had it swept through the country when we were
• 1:23:51
  unvaccinated versus vaccinated that's so it's just a weird sort of technocratic thing and a
• 1:23:56
  government failure for not having procured vaccines earlier so it's both that and also bear in
• 1:24:02
  mind that when Australia was going through the pandemic we were not led by a lefty sort of
• 1:24:08
  authoritarian like pro-indigenous land acknowledgement a party I mean the government at the time was
• 1:24:14
  a conservative and socially conservative party the prime minister was one of the most overtly devout
• 1:24:21
  Christians we've had in the office he's a member of Hillsong Church he's a Pentecostal you know
• 1:24:26
  an evangelical Christian and there's he would have had no truck with land acknowledgment so with
• 1:24:32
  this kind of black armband view of history trying to make Australians white Australians feel guilty
• 1:24:37
  for their past that wasn't his bag at all and yet he was still responsible for presiding over
• 1:24:42
  one of the most authoritarian responses to COVID in the rich democratic world and that was wildly
• 1:24:48
  popular for a whole bunch of interesting cultural reasons but instead of being curious about such
• 1:24:54
  reasons it suits Tucker Carlson's worldview and the narrative that he's trying to expound to say that
• 1:25:01
  that is being done by the same elites the same elites it's all this shadowy kind of elites right
• 1:25:06
  they're they're all in it together yes the prime minister might be might have been a social
• 1:25:09
  conservative and he might have had nothing in common ostensibly on the surface with the kinds of
• 1:25:15
  people who are deciding that when quantus lands are playing it's going to tell you that the
• 1:25:19
  indigenous name of the people who's land you're landing on maybe they superficially have nothing
• 1:25:24
  in common but what they have in common is that they're not you they're not the little guy they're
• 1:25:28
  not the real people they're not the citizens which brings him to this latest point that he's just
• 1:25:34
  making here which is about how the owners of a country are its citizens and this is a powerful
• 1:25:40
  and profound and true point the citizens own a country in the democracy he's absolutely right
• 1:25:49
  and there is too often from governments on both sides of the aisle in all western countries a
• 1:25:58
  disregard flagrantly for the fact that it is the citizens it is we the people who decide what
• 1:26:04
  happens in this country and who own the fate of this country now the latest and most egregious
• 1:26:11
  example of that sort of disregard comes from Tucker Carlson's mate Donald Trump who as president
• 1:26:20
  is trying to dramatically expand denaturalization now unbelievably I didn't even know that this was
• 1:26:26
  legal because I had so drunk my own cool aid on thinking that citizenship made you a you know an
• 1:26:33
  owner of the country that I didn't think it was possible for the government to strip you of your
• 1:26:36
  citizenship they might be able to lock you in a cage for the rest of your life they might be able
• 1:26:42
  kill you in the electric chair but they can't not make you a member of the country that you are a
• 1:26:47
  member of nonetheless Trump's top aid Stephen Miller on immigration is the brains by his immigration
• 1:26:54
  policy declared last year America is for Americans and Americans only sort of total logical kind of
• 1:27:03
  makes sense but it's interesting what he means by Americans because he doesn't exactly mean what
• 1:27:08
  Tucker Carlson claims to mean when Tucker's talking about citizenship he seems to mean more
• 1:27:15
  what Tucker was alluding to earlier in the speech when Tucker talked about native born Americans
• 1:27:21
  the Trump administration I'm getting this from the Brennan Center which is one of the leading legal
• 1:27:27
  think tanks in the United States the Trump administration justice department has been instructed
• 1:27:34
  to quote maximally pursue denaturalization proceedings with broad flexibility on who to target now
• 1:27:41
  stripping a U.S. citizen of their citizenship has traditionally happened after I did some
• 1:27:47
  reading at a pace of about 11 people per year and it's usually people who have just become citizens
• 1:27:54
  and they lied and it turned out that they were actually a Nazi like you know in the past or they
• 1:27:59
  were a member of a terrorist group and they got their passport accidentally by lying on the form
• 1:28:03
  they get denaturalized group of their citizenship it only happens less than a dozen to less than a
• 1:28:08
  dozen people a year in a country of whatever 340 million people but Trump and Stephen Miller are
• 1:28:15
  trying to aggressively ramp that up so that U.S. citizens natural born U.S. citizens if they're the
• 1:28:22
  kinds of people who the Trump administration does not deem worthy of being citizens and at the
• 1:28:27
  moment they're talking in terms of people for example whose parents are undocumented immigrants are
• 1:28:33
  illegal immigrants or whose parents are you know who their paperwork their migrants whose paperwork isn't
• 1:28:38
  in order and their not citizens themselves but they have a child in the United States that child
• 1:28:43
  gets citizenship they're looking at aggressively ramping up denaturalization but does anyone have
• 1:28:49
  I mean how much faith do you have that the denaturalization move that's orchestrated by the likes of
• 1:28:55
  Stephen Miller on Donald Trump is going to limit itself judiciously only to people who were born
• 1:29:01
  of illegal immigrants and accidentally got their citizenship that way and that it won't also try
• 1:29:05
  to incorporate people who might be representatives of the far left and Tifa Hamas
• 1:29:13
  cabal that the administration seems to fear is gonna take over America for it doesn't put tanks
• 1:29:18
  in the streets um this is worrying I completely agree with Tucker Carlson the citizens own the
• 1:29:24
  country once you're a citizen you're a citizen it's your country that is who you own it
• 1:29:28
  essentially you should not be able to be stripped of it for almost any reason so the cynicism
• 1:29:34
  with which Tucker Carlson can get on his soapbox and talk about how powerful elites are trying to
• 1:29:42
  get us all to comply with their overbearing covert restrictions by telling us that this is not
• 1:29:49
  our country and betraying the fact that we the citizens own the country is this strange but
• 1:29:57
  sophisticated and sort of awe inspiring melange of disparate points that he is weaving together
• 1:30:04
  like a master conductor to build this narrative I'm like frankly gobsmacked at how good he is at
• 1:30:12
  doing this which is why I find him so terrifying as a potential presidential candidate not to
• 1:30:17
  mention just in a to a lesser degree right now as a force in popular culture again each of these
• 1:30:23
  things are true citizens do own the country governments do ride roughshod over citizens rights especially
• 1:30:31
  when they try to strip citizens of their citizenship as you know Donald Trump which is on
• 1:30:36
  Tucker Carlson's who's on Tucker Carlson's side of the political aisle is currently doing it is
• 1:30:42
  also true that there's been an overreach on the sort of sense that Western civilization is
• 1:30:47
  essentially corrupt and we're bad guys and colonialism was terrible and the genocide of Indigenous
• 1:30:51
  people was terrible therefore that overemphasis on the bad aspects of Western history has included
• 1:31:00
  some people's measured judicious judgment about the sort of net positive effects of Western civilization
• 1:31:07
  and also just pissed off a whole bunch of people who don't want to be told that they're you know
• 1:31:12
  enjoying the fruits of a rotten tree and it's also true that this country that Tucker Carlson
• 1:31:18
  finds himself in is weirdly obedient and probably went a bit too far during COVID although it's
• 1:31:25
  also worth noting something that he doesn't which is that the vaccines were safe yes they were
• 1:31:31
  obviously side effects and some people got hurt and that's terrible and those were known about
• 1:31:35
  and that was all part of the risk profile of saving the largest number of lives not you know as
• 1:31:41
  it has been said if the cure for COVID was peanut butter and you gave everyone peanut butter
• 1:31:46
  then certain number of people would die from eating peanut butter because peanut butter killed some
• 1:31:49
  people but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be a good thing to do and Australia had 90 percent
• 1:31:56
  fewer COVID deaths per capita than the United States did so there was a payoff you know this is not
• 1:32:01
  to say there wasn't overreach but to say that the overreach was part of an orchestrated campaign by
• 1:32:06
  the kinds of people who want to make you feel guilty about your colonial past in order to get you
• 1:32:13
  used to their tyranny so that they can strip away your citizenship is a mind boggling juggling act
• 1:32:20
  that when you hear it the first time you don't notice how impressive it is albeit I would say
• 1:32:27
  somewhat illogical because you know what's going to happen is what's happening now which is they
• 1:32:35
  will completely change your country make your life much worse make it absolutely impossible for your
• 1:32:41
  children to have the lives that you gave them in other words for your civilization to continue
• 1:32:47
  because that's what that is they will eliminate all of that and you won't be able to say a word
• 1:32:53
  because why are you complaining it's not your country and I can promise you that in 50 years what
• 1:33:01
  you have will not exist it will not exist I'm sorry say that out loud the only reason I'm saying
• 1:33:06
  that it's such a heavy thing to say it makes me you know I feel a little rude saying it but I just
• 1:33:11
  liked what I've seen so much I've been so impressed by this country that I think to myself really
• 1:33:18
  the only way you could wreck a place like this is on purpose really is on purpose you don't need
• 1:33:26
  anything here well talker if the only way to ruin a place like this is on purpose I can think of
• 1:33:35
  a way to do it on purpose which would be to in one's quest for power, fame and money to
• 1:33:48
  pick at people's sense of vulnerability and sense of uncertainty and to try to convince them
• 1:33:57
  that the reasons for the world being complicated and leaving them behind is that there is a
• 1:34:05
  clan of individuals of elites who are conspiring to screw them stab them in the back
• 1:34:13
  and that the main mechanism that those elites are using to do so is migrants flooding them with
• 1:34:19
  migrants making their houses unaffordable stripping away their dreams because that is shorter
• 1:34:26
  ferment a level of I would say irrational unrest and civil disobedience and also not there's
• 1:34:34
  any wrong primacy with civil disobedience but when it's directed at amorphous blobs
• 1:34:38
  that are not the real culprit it's not very constructive and also a breakdown in community
• 1:34:44
  relations I mean what could be more corrosive to a successful multicultural society than for what
• 1:34:51
  Tucker Carlson caused the native born population to believe that the reason why there are problems
• 1:34:57
  in a very problem-filled world especially one where the problems are constantly shoved in your face
• 1:35:02
  thanks to social media algorithms that the cause of those problems is migrants is the non-native
• 1:35:07
  born population so yeah I mean it's possible that it's true that the only way to ruin a society
• 1:35:13
  like this is on purpose and if I had to think about the people who it strikes me are if not
• 1:35:21
  trying to undermine these societies on purpose are at least behaving in ways that show a reckless
• 1:35:28
  disregard for those societies well-being for the cohesion of their cultures and for the
• 1:35:34
  sane and constructive conversation making of their people Tucker Carlson would be one
• 1:35:38
  of them. Hearing about your energy costs like almost drove me I almost put my fists through the
• 1:35:44
  wall someone saying well I can't you know can't do that I was asking like dumb questions like you
• 1:35:51
  have you know the world's largest deposits of iron ore from which steel is made I said well how
• 1:35:56
  many steel mills will none why because energy is too expensive I said well too bad you don't have
• 1:36:02
  any thermocol here oh wait you have the world's largest deposits of thermocol in the world
• 1:36:10
  so why do you have such high energy costs well because we sell our coal to China which uses it to
• 1:36:17
  make renewables which we then buy back okay okay whoever thought of that hates you I'm just being
• 1:36:27
  honest that's not an accounting error that that was not a mistake made in good faith it's not like
• 1:36:39
  the accountant's over at parliament house or whatever they call it like look at the books one day
• 1:36:43
  and be like you know all those estimates we had about wind farms it actually doesn't add up
• 1:36:48
  that we sell our country's resources to a far away country to make something that doesn't work
• 1:36:54
  and then pay extra for it like they knew that wasn't going to work when they did it obviously
• 1:37:01
  because that's insane it's prima facie insane the fact that you have high energy costs is reason
• 1:37:06
  enough to get rid of the people who are running your country because guess what everybody else knows
• 1:37:15
  except the English speaking countries including mine which are on one level the most impressive countries
• 1:37:22
  that have ever existed in human history clearly certainly the kindest the most decent
• 1:37:27
  well they gave us science okay you know they invented the airplane they're the most impressive
• 1:37:31
  societies ever created but they're also on some level the most naive for the dumbest
• 1:37:38
  what everybody understands around the world is that there's a direct line between cheap
• 1:37:42
  energy and civilization the cheaper energy you have the fewer babies who die when they're born
• 1:37:48
  period the cheaper energy you have you know the fewer women get worn out by life in their mid-30s
• 1:37:58
  I mean go to countries with expensive energy in the developing the developing world and you will
• 1:38:02
  see the physical toll on people from having to live in a society where they can't afford energy
• 1:38:09
  Taga Taga Taki boy may I point of order just a quick quick question quick question
• 1:38:14
  Josh steps uncomfortable conversations um do you think there might be any other reasons
• 1:38:21
  why people in poor countries where energy is very expensive might not be rich do you think
• 1:38:30
  maybe the reason why they're they're not rich there is because they're not rich that could also
• 1:38:38
  have something to do with why they don't lead rich lives I'm just I'm just I'm spitball I'm
• 1:38:43
  spitball I'm just wonder I'm just you know trying to cast a wide net here um obviously I think it
• 1:38:48
  should be pretty clear that uh the high cost of energy is a bad thing and we do should want uh
• 1:38:53
  cheap energy we should also want to make sure that we have energy that is not very cheap right now
• 1:39:00
  but has massive negative externalities that we're going to have to pay for and be deranged by
• 1:39:05
  later on which is why coal is a little bit tricky because very cheap now but living through the
• 1:39:12
  second half of the 21st century with massive migrant refugee flows disrupting liberal democracies
• 1:39:18
  because the monsoons have been disrupted or you know because they're a constant droughts and
• 1:39:23
  we're getting constantly battered by harsher and more frequent storms and bushfires and we're
• 1:39:28
  having to invest enormous amounts of time and energy and just money into relocating myami or
• 1:39:35
  figuring out how to do hydroponics because old farmland isn't fruitful anymore like all of that
• 1:39:40
  has to be just factored into the question of how expensive a particular energy source is again
• 1:39:46
  Taka Carlson here is doing what Taka Carlson does best which is taking a small true thing
• 1:39:51
  and then giving it a mono cause instead of treating the world as the complicated place that
• 1:39:56
  it actually is so absolutely true that Australian energy prices are way too high it is inexcusable
• 1:40:02
  in a country that has as many energy resources as we do that is that has been so badly mismanaged
• 1:40:07
  one major reason not the only one because i'm not Taka Carlson but one major reason why
• 1:40:13
  energy is expensive in Australia is because the energy sector has never had any predictability
• 1:40:18
  about how Australia is going to respond to carbon emissions and that is because of Taka Carlson's
• 1:40:24
  side of politics mostly and his mates the labor government over 10 years ago tried to bring in
• 1:40:30
  a carbon tax they tried to bring in a mining resources super profits tax to keep some of the
• 1:40:35
  money from our mining back here in Australia the way the Norwegians do have a kind of a futures
• 1:40:40
  fund to keep some of the the revenue big business and lobbyists shot that down the government
• 1:40:47
  lost an election the conservatives came in they scrapped the carbon tax idea and ever since I mean
• 1:40:52
  there's not the only reason again but ever since there's you know it is implausible for conservatives
• 1:40:58
  who are coal boosters like Taka Carlson to say to the energy sector to big electricity companies
• 1:41:04
  who are considering whether or not to invest absolute bucket loads of money into new energy supply
• 1:41:12
  and into you know where their resources are going to go in terms in terms of the energy mix
• 1:41:16
  to simply tell them don't worry about the whole carbon thing
• 1:41:21
  when not there's no price on carbon and we're not entering a carbon emissions trading scheme
• 1:41:26
  because of course the executive is a big energy companies they don't necessarily mind if you start
• 1:41:32
  taxing carbon or trading carbon but they can see the way the winds are going and they just don't
• 1:41:36
  believe that coal is going to be financially viable they don't believe that people are going to
• 1:41:42
  allow their governments to make coal financially viable indefinitely if it's going to take them
• 1:41:47
  20 years to get a a new coal fired power plant up to profitability and the life of that power plant
• 1:41:54
  might be 40 or 50 years so you know one reason why we've screwed the pooch so much on this is
• 1:41:59
  because Taka Carlson side of politics has been such coal boosters that they haven't been willing
• 1:42:03
  to sit down and just talk to the industry and go okay this is how it's going to go where you know
• 1:42:07
  coal is going to be phased out in this very predictable way and it's going to be replaced by this
• 1:42:11
  this and this maybe new clear as part of the mix whatever but to simply say that we're getting
• 1:42:17
  railroaded by people who are trying to make our energy costs more expensive because I suppose
• 1:42:23
  the implication is they want us to be like poor people in those snotty, sweety developing countries
• 1:42:29
  where you know women die in childbirth or whatever a there are a lot of reasons why poor women
• 1:42:35
  die in childbirth it's because they're poor it's not just because energy costs are high
• 1:42:40
  b you have to factor in all of the externalities of any particular energy source c the reason why
• 1:42:46
  we have high energy costs is partly because governments have not been able to reckon with the reality
• 1:42:51
  that the industry knows they need to reckon with of how we're going to deal with climate chaos
• 1:42:57
  and with the energy mix that climate chaos demands so again taking true things high cost of energy
• 1:43:03
  the fact that cheap energy is good the fact that governments have bungled this and making them yet
• 1:43:09
  another pillar of this basic overarching narrative about how the real cause of the problem is that
• 1:43:15
  we are being willfully and willingly misled and betrayed by our overlords first people out it
• 1:43:22
  wrecks their lives we're happy because we have cheap energy in a lot of ways and so if they're
• 1:43:27
  intentionally making it more expensive just like if they're making it impossible for your kids to
• 1:43:33
  buy houses or if they're shooting with rubber bullets at some point you have to connect the dots
• 1:43:38
  and say these people aren't just neglecting me they hate me there's no other explanation for that
• 1:43:45
  by the way if this were happening in a family so the model of for all human organizations is the
• 1:43:51
  family which is the building block of any civilization mom dad kids I know they're trying to scramble that
• 1:43:56
  a little bit future generations will look back on this and be like that was the craziest thing that
• 1:44:04
  ever happened that ever happened I have an idea what do you castrate your children yeah
• 1:44:13
  but I thought the government when I was a kid I know I'm digressing but there it's just so much
• 1:44:17
  this country is so close to the country I live in it's like really weird it's like running into a
• 1:44:21
  relative you didn't know you had like wow we look alike how strange except you use the word
• 1:44:26
  wankah and I don't know what that means but in every other way it's my new favorite word by the way
• 1:44:32
  I'm I'm putting it on my suitcase for the trip home tomorrow I'm gonna unveil it at dinner parties
• 1:44:38
  and I'm never gonna ask anybody what it means because I know it's something bad but if I know
• 1:44:42
  that I won't be able to say it with a straight face but I'm gonna drop that no exaggeration the
• 1:44:47
  second I get home at dinner like you're all wankas I learned that from my Australian friends excuse me
• 1:44:56
  anyway um but the the the building block of any civilization is of course the family the nuclear
• 1:45:04
  family husband wife children because that mirrors the natural order the biological order from
• 1:45:12
  which everything is derived now Christians believe that's because God set it up that way but also
• 1:45:18
  scientists believe that because it's true and there's no debating that it's true okay and so it
• 1:45:25
  would stand to reason that the deepest desire of the human heart of course is to reproduce that the
• 1:45:29
  whole point right that is the story of evolution of biology is to reproduce to pass on your genes
• 1:45:34
  and you get to a certain age and you've done that and so the most pressing agenda on your list
• 1:45:38
  is to have grandchildren before you die and so if they're telling you know what you really want
• 1:45:44
  no you got that wrong in fact a million years of human civilization it's got a totally wrong we
• 1:45:49
  just figured it out about 18 months ago what you really want is to castrate your children
• 1:45:55
  and then you'll have no hope of passing on your genes and then you'll be happy
• 1:46:03
  by the way they don't buy this in real countries like China they're like okay all right
• 1:46:07
  it's like green energy you think the Chinese believe in green energy right that's they're buying
• 1:46:11
  your coal because they don't not for one second they're like oh the whites won wind farms let's
• 1:46:18
  mix some more this is why everyone hates the Chinese I do not hate the Chinese they're doing what
• 1:46:28
  they think is in their best interest I mean I don't want to live in China okay at all I detest the
• 1:46:33
  fact it's an atheist society there's a lot about China I don't like I hate the way they treat animals
• 1:46:37
  but I hate that actually but one thing I admire about China is they act in China's interest
• 1:46:43
  I'm sorry I can't complain about that that's what countries are supposed to do I wish we'd
• 1:46:47
  leaders like that in my country spent all this time hating on China it's like let's let's take out
• 1:46:52
  the kind of murdering people for their organs part or the eating dogs which are deeply offensive to
• 1:46:58
  but let's keep the part where the government acts in the interest of the nation which is the only
• 1:47:03
  legitimate use of a government's power like I admire that so if they can sell you wind turbines
• 1:47:10
  or solar panels because you're dumb enough to send them your coal to do it kind of in the W column
• 1:47:17
  for China no just in case it isn't incredibly obvious the amount of energy that it takes to build
• 1:47:26
  a wind turbine or a solar panel is nowhere near as much as the amount of energy that they put out
• 1:47:33
  over the course of their lives so this framing that he has where Australia sends coal to China
• 1:47:39
  and China sends solar panel and China uses the coal to build solar panels which it sends back to us
• 1:47:45
  sort of implies that we could have just kept the coal in the first place and generated as much
• 1:47:48
  energy as the solar panel is going to end up putting out that's nonsense it's a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny
• 1:47:54
  amount of coal that needs to go into producing a solar panel that will then produce clean energy
• 1:47:59
  for a very very long time so you know you can argue with solar you can quibble with wind you could
• 1:48:04
  say nuclear should be part of the mix but it's not a Ponzi scheme the way that he's trying to
• 1:48:08
  frame it I will not comment on his comments about transgender people or you know gay family
• 1:48:15
  life or what you know mothers and fathers and castrating children and all that I think that's
• 1:48:20
  just obviously sort of red bait that I think if he does become a phenomenal political force he's
• 1:48:26
  probably going to have to soften down a little bit of that I mean once again the question of whether
• 1:48:33
  or not children should be fast tracked into gender reassignment surgery or what the trans lobby
• 1:48:41
  wants us to call gender affirmation surgery because it merely affirms the gender that the child
• 1:48:46
  was on the inside even though they were assigned to different biological sex at birth and the idea
• 1:48:51
  that the kids should be fast tracked into that and that any psychiatrist who asks questions of a 15
• 1:48:56
  year old autistic girl about whether or not she is experiencing any kind of other symptoms of
• 1:49:04
  depression or anxiety or you know whether or not there is any peer contagion effect that a
• 1:49:09
  psychiatrist who asks those questions is guilty of conversion therapy and can be reprimanded which
• 1:49:14
  is the case in a lot of jurisdictions or the idea that you know biological males can declare
• 1:49:19
  that they are females and then make up quotas on you know female boards and so on or enter women's
• 1:49:26
  prisons the idea that there should be no tolerance of a wider view of adolescent sexuality and
• 1:49:34
  confusion than simply the idea that the claims of children should be taken at face value instead of
• 1:49:42
  with a grain of salt all of this overreach all of this sort of moral panic I suppose has contributed
• 1:49:49
  again to a climate in which people like Tucker Carlson can make hay out of this stuff I hope
• 1:49:55
  that in a couple of years time when he runs for president which I think is somewhat inevitable in
• 1:50:00
  fact Tucker has mentioned that Lockham Murdock asked him to run against Trump after Lockham fired him
• 1:50:06
  so you know you can watch that space the these issues these hot culture war issues would be so
• 1:50:12
  deprived of their currency and would land so much flatter than they do had it not been for the
• 1:50:17
  overreach of the left but it's just interesting to see the way that Tucker is currently manipulating
• 1:50:22
  them what does that it's yours and mine I mean my country is exactly the same thing you're not
• 1:50:28
  going to get me to rant about China I want to learn from China you know maybe you guys can get
• 1:50:33
  your domestic manufacturing back and go sell windmills to somebody else who's dumb enough to buy
• 1:50:37
  them you should do that I've heard Belgium is looking to expand its green energy profile
• 1:50:44
  and by the way you could do that because you don't need anything you have if there's one like
• 1:50:49
  sincere criticism of Australians I would level after two and a half weeks here way too happy
• 1:50:55
  it's such a happy country that people don't pause a to consider how bad it could be
• 1:51:02
  they don't and be they don't really I don't with respect in the US same way they don't really
• 1:51:09
  appreciate how great it is they really don't they don't if you are designing a country
• 1:51:17
  what would you want well the first thing you would want is natural resources okay that's the
• 1:51:22
  most important thing the most important thing and this may be news here in Melbourne is not banking
• 1:51:27
  it's not banking doesn't make an economy banking is in some sense possibly a necessary feature
• 1:51:34
  of advanced economies but it's not integral to any economy loading money and interest actually
• 1:51:38
  used to be considered disgusting in fact it was illegal it still is illegal in some places so the
• 1:51:42
  idea that we've made that like the apogee of human achievement lending money no it's not no making
• 1:51:48
  things is the point of life making things is the point of life in order to make things you need resources
• 1:51:55
  and you have more resources than you could ever use for the next thousand years you're totally
• 1:51:59
  said you need nothing you've got more than enough land there's nobody here there's nobody here
• 1:52:08
  I've flown over beaches recently I was like what was someone gonna build a club med there or what
• 1:52:13
  I just like 30 miles of beautiful coastline in my country people would be murdered over the
• 1:52:17
  rights to that here it's just like oh yeah we got we got a lot of that like no one lives here
• 1:52:21
  you lead the world in resources in gas in box site it's kind of important actually in iron ore in
• 1:52:31
  coal in lead in gold you name it copper you've got it the rest of the uranium oh my gosh you
• 1:52:37
  ever said that thank you I totally forgot about uranium thinking of the deepest reserves in the
• 1:52:40
  world here did you say wankah I don't think that's a natural resource but maybe it is I
• 1:52:49
  don't look that up actually the point is you don't need great Britain you don't need any other
• 1:52:58
  country you could honestly kind of run the world you've got no real poverty no I mean there are
• 1:53:06
  poor people here but you don't have dense concentrations of poverty that I've seen in seven
• 1:53:10
  separate cities and I look for it you don't you will but you don't now you've got a very well
• 1:53:17
  educated and impressive and smart population like what don't you have you don't need anybody
• 1:53:24
  around you should be running the world I mean I personally immediately buy a nuclear weapon
• 1:53:29
  just to make that point clear to the rest of the world I'm not kidding probably not gonna do
• 1:53:33
  that you're not allowed to have handguns you're probably not buying nukes but you should get both
• 1:53:39
  sorry I know you hate that but I feel that way and once you realize that then there is
• 1:53:47
  absolutely no reason to let your leaders destroy the place you just need to say no and the
• 1:53:53
  first thing you do so how does that work exactly I was getting so upset talking to this
• 1:53:59
  awesome Pakistani tobacco shop guy yesterday the poor guy you know anyway really bugged me
• 1:54:07
  I had a long conversation with him about it that got so out of control that I can't repeat it here
• 1:54:11
  because we'll all be arrested but he was on board he's probably here tonight by the way if you're here
• 1:54:19
  but how do you do that how do you do that if you're an orderly peaceful person by the way
• 1:54:25
  because you know the problem of changing your society is it can move in super ugly direction super
• 1:54:30
  fast and no decent person wants that now the people running your country definitely want that
• 1:54:34
  they're the ones who shot you with rubber bullets instead of concentration camps for you in case
• 1:54:37
  you've forgotten wreck the economy of Victorian and many other right I mean the cost of that made
• 1:54:42
  you take the the covid shot and then ignored the ignored the the injuries that it cost just totally
• 1:54:48
  ignored him so they have no problem with force but normal people have a lot of problem with force I
• 1:54:54
  have a lot of problem with force I'm a Christian I mean I believe in a religion that rejects force
• 1:54:59
  actually rejects hurting other people that calls for you to pray for your enemies it's a little
• 1:55:03
  weird that they hate Christians so much don't you think by the way parenthetically it's a little
• 1:55:07
  strange if I was running a country and I what's I don't care what religion I was I'd want to
• 1:55:13
  import a lot of Christians just because by definition like sincere Christians because
• 1:55:18
  literally their religion says you're not allowed to go hurt people instead you have to kind of like
• 1:55:24
  work hard stay married to the same person take care of your children I'm like even if I thought
• 1:55:28
  the religion was absurd even if it was not my religion at all I'd be like let's import a bunch of
• 1:55:34
  those because they're clearly the least threatening the most productive citizens you could possibly
• 1:55:40
  have in fact this country was built originally by Christians all these all those five countries
• 1:55:45
  were that's why they're great countries that's why they have human rights because respecting the
• 1:55:51
  rights of other people is a Christian precept it doesn't exist in non Christian countries I'm sorry
• 1:55:55
  it doesn't Christians are unique in that they believe that each person was created by God and
• 1:56:00
  therefore his rights the right to say what you really think the freedom of speech practice
• 1:56:05
  you want great not just I just cannot not jump in there is a lot that could be said but I won't
• 1:56:15
  go on forever here he just said that respect for human rights only exists in Christian countries
• 1:56:21
  no other countries that aren't Christian respect each other's rights obviously factually untrue
• 1:56:30
  also the extent to which we developed human rights law and an appreciation of a live and let live
• 1:56:36
  ethos whilst informed by the preachings of Jesus was you know we can we just not can we give a
• 1:56:45
  little credit also to like the enlightenment until you know secular philosophers to the the scots
• 1:56:51
  it wasn't all just Christians who were banging on about the Bible I believe that the Christianity
• 1:56:56
  has done some you know it has been not quite so open-minded and tolerant as the secular enlightenment
• 1:57:03
  rationalists all the time so slight quibble it's just also worth noting that the way that he's
• 1:57:10
  talking here although it lands in a fairly tinny way I think in the Australian context because we're
• 1:57:15
  a very secular country in the United States you now have like 40% of the population who tell
• 1:57:21
  pollsters that they are basically Christian nationalists they don't use those words but when you
• 1:57:25
  ask them questions about the way that they want America to be a much more theologically aggressive
• 1:57:31
  regime is something that they'd be comfortable with so if Tucker does become a presidential candidate
• 1:57:36
  you can imagine this is going to be something that's he would lean into which would be absolute catnip
• 1:57:41
  to the base of evangelicals who've had to find themselves holding their nose somewhat to vote for
• 1:57:45
  someone with as many personal peccadillas as Trump but would now be able to throw their weight
• 1:57:51
  behind someone who speaks about Christian nationalism and this almost kind of messianic
• 1:57:56
  and deeply faith-based way Albo didn't give you those you were born with them
• 1:58:04
  yeah no I'm serious so like why would they hate people like that they'll seem like
• 1:58:09
  again even if you don't agree with the religion or any religion wouldn't you want that
• 1:58:13
  and of course they're the ones they hate most that tells you a lot about their agenda I would say
• 1:58:18
  and I think the thing that they hate most about Christians leaving aside the spiritual explanations
• 1:58:21
  because I personally think are real but maybe you don't but just as a political matter what they
• 1:58:26
  don't like about Christians is Christians recognize that those rights are inherent they're bestowed
• 1:58:32
  by God not people and they can't be taken away that's why Christians led the abolitionist movement
• 1:58:37
  we don't have slavery because of Christians and in non-Christian countries there's still this
• 1:58:40
  slavery it's really simple I'm sensing they don't teach us in Australian schools
• 1:58:46
  yeah they don't teach this in Australian schools because it's not true that the end of reason
• 1:58:50
  why we don't have slavery is because of Christians there was a long and complicated
• 1:58:53
  theological argument between Christians who were originally for slavery a lot of Christians
• 1:58:57
  were defenders of slavery yes there were people who were motivated by their Christianity who were
• 1:59:01
  in the abolitionism movement you know it's six or one half a dozen of another there were a lot
• 1:59:06
  of strands of philosophical thought about the rights and wrongs of slavery at the time and they
• 1:59:10
  didn't cleave innocently along any particular religious line it's just factually untrue to say
• 1:59:16
  that the reason why there's no slavery is because there's because of Christianity and that in
• 1:59:20
  non-Christian places there's still slavery right okay the only reason we recognize in any of these
• 1:59:28
  human rights that were supposedly defending a rights at all is because of Christians the only
• 1:59:32
  reason that's the only reason who do you think to find those as human rights Christians because
• 1:59:37
  they were Christians so if you hate Christians you're making me a little nervous
• 1:59:42
  what exactly are we doing that's scaring you so much well we're acknowledging God above you
• 1:59:46
  that's the real sin sorry jikinda ad hern you're not God you're just some silly lady with bad
• 1:59:56
  teeth like stop jikinda ad hern it's just into a done dipshit no I'm really I don't mean you harm
• 2:00:05
  but I'm certainly not going to worship you but they've set up this bizarre religion in your
• 2:00:12
  country it's really noticeable I'm sure you don't even notice it it's like all these flags so
• 2:00:16
  flag all over the place the transgender flag I said to my driver yesterday like what is that
• 2:00:22
  it's like a transgender I can't even do his accent I was like is that who puts that up the city so
• 2:00:27
  that's your religion really yeah it is well you can't worship false religions first of all
• 2:00:34
  the state shouldn't be imposing a religion on you that is a religion not so different from Rome
• 2:00:40
  worship our gods or we'll punish you and the early Christians said okay I'll be punished then
• 2:00:45
  because I'm not worshiping your gods happy to live next to you I'm a tolerant person by my
• 2:00:52
  nature Christians are tolerant by nature they're not allowed to convert by force they're not
• 2:00:57
  allowed to force you to believe anything because God created you we didn't but the one thing I
• 2:01:01
  can't do I'm not allowed to do is worship false gods including your transgender culture whatever
• 2:01:08
  your transgender you live next door no problem I mean I worked in tv all my life that's hardly the
• 2:01:15
  weirdest personal life I've ever seen trust me totally happy to live next to people are into
• 2:01:20
  freaky stuff I don't want to hear about it but I don't want to arrest them but what I'm not going
• 2:01:26
  to do is worship them as gods period because I can't so here's my quick advice to you and I will
• 2:01:33
  I will stop and we'll take your hostile questions maybe in a minute but I violence is never the answer
• 2:01:43
  just isn't it doesn't make things better I've seen a lot of conflict in a lot of different
• 2:01:47
  countries no one's really improved by it ever and often things usually things get much worse
• 2:01:52
  the US had about the only violent revolution I've ever heard of that made things better
• 2:01:58
  the only thing that works is telling the truth and bravery and that actually does work
• 2:02:05
  total non-compliance we used to call it when I was a kid in my country we celebrated
• 2:02:10
  something called civil disobedience and that was considered a virtue now it's considered a crime
• 2:02:15
  and they shoot you with rubber bullets but back when I was a child when you know the people who
• 2:02:20
  are now firing the guns of the rubber bullets wanted to be in charge they'd be like no that's
• 2:02:23
  the highest level of public service is you know refusing to go along with unjust laws and I still
• 2:02:29
  think that I don't care whether they've changed your views doesn't bother me my views will never
• 2:02:35
  change you have absolutely no obligation to follow immoral laws and you shouldn't
• 2:02:44
  and so then the question is well why do people follow immoral laws like after 30 years of telling
• 2:02:52
  you it's your body your choice one day you wake up they're like give me your arm and I'll inject
• 2:02:56
  you with something oh I don't I don't care for that shut up or I'll send you to prison camp
• 2:03:02
  so why did people go along with that and the answer is not because they want to but because they
• 2:03:07
  don't you know they're afraid they don't want to be ostracized from the group that's a huge one
• 2:03:12
  in Anglo countries there's a huge premium in our culture or common culture and getting along
• 2:03:16
  with people not being the one person being obstreparous or difficult like pipe down just go
• 2:03:21
  along with it you know line up in a readily way that's a huge part of our culture it's a great
• 2:03:26
  part of our culture but that's the downside and the other reason is that they fear being harmed
• 2:03:31
  they don't want to be shot with a rubber bullet they don't want to be arrested they don't
• 2:03:34
  want to disrupt their lives to which I would say well okay but what's the alternative and there's
• 2:03:39
  only one alternative which is being destroyed and living like a slave so the truth is nothing changes
• 2:03:44
  and all people are willing to face those consequences that's just the truth like what did you think
• 2:03:49
  this was you you really have to decide that you're just you're not going to harm anybody but
• 2:03:55
  you are willing to be harmed that's just the truth you have to decide that and if you don't
• 2:04:00
  decide that I think it's very clear to me as a visitor where it's going because I've seen it
• 2:04:05
  and you have to make that decision I'm not going along with that with respect I'm not going to
• 2:04:09
  scream at anybody not going to be nasty money I'm definitely not going to hurt anybody but there
• 2:04:13
  is literally nothing you could do to make me do that and if I need to be punished that's fine I
• 2:04:18
  will be most people will not do that most people just you know want to go to Bondi or whatever
• 2:04:25
  they want to live their lives I get it I'm not attacking them but it doesn't take everybody to
• 2:04:29
  change the society if a small percentage of people firmly decide that they will not violate
• 2:04:35
  what is sacred to them they will not worship false gods they will not betray their own conscience
• 2:04:40
  and allow their families and their country to be destroyed and under no circumstances will
• 2:04:44
  they participate in a moral system if a small group of people 10% of your population does that
• 2:04:51
  I don't know Gandhi kicked the British out of India after 300 years wasn't that hard
• 2:04:55
  wearing a loincloth actually that actually happened and it's happened time and again so my
• 2:05:02
  strong advice to you and I'll stop with this remember what the consequences are what's at stake
• 2:05:09
  it's totally real it's not your imagination it's not your mat if it's they're telling you it's not
• 2:05:13
  your country they're gonna take it away from you period two you can't let that happen because
• 2:05:19
  it's too nice and there are future generations of Australians who have the right to live as you
• 2:05:23
  lived and three you don't have to hurt anybody and you shouldn't hurt anybody hurting other people
• 2:05:31
  is immoral that's why your leaders are illegitimate because they hurt people and that's wrong
• 2:05:37
  but you have to be willing to be hurt that's just true thank you
• 2:05:47
  so there you have it the Australian Freedom Conference keynote address by Taka Carlson
• 2:05:55
  he's a brilliant orata and a terrifying person to have dabbling in ideas that could be
• 2:06:06
  taken into some very dark places and I'm coming back to Nick Fuentes and Hitler loving anti-Semitic
• 2:06:11
  racists here but it's just worth also understanding that as well as being a brilliant orata and a
• 2:06:17
  masterful button pusher and a great rabble rouser he's also a total fucking hypocrite
• 2:06:25
  because the reasons why he says in that speech that he loves Australia are all reasons that
• 2:06:33
  are best facilitated by a radical centrist pragmatic sort of social democratic center left vision
• 2:06:41
  not by workness not by you know craziness and culture war stuff but certainly not by
• 2:06:50
  highly fiscally mean conservatism and definitely not by his strand of populist make America great
• 2:06:57
  again trumpism he's talking about how Australia is great because it doesn't have the poverty
• 2:07:02
  that the United States does the Australia is great because it doesn't have poverty because it has
• 2:07:05
  been a welfare programs and higher minimum wages than the United States does and who defends
• 2:07:09
  welfare programs and high minimum wages the left he says Australia is great because our forebears
• 2:07:14
  invested in public services and public infrastructure they invested all of the weeks revenue that
• 2:07:20
  they grew in the 19th century into public works well who opposes big spending on public works
• 2:07:25
  usually it's the right hand that's the right wing of politics i mean unless they're giving
• 2:07:29
  money to their mates for some you know in order to boost some particular sector but generally
• 2:07:33
  public publics public infrastructure investment public investment in public goods is a hallmark
• 2:07:37
  of the left's not of the Tucker Carlson's of the world he says the Australians are great because
• 2:07:42
  we're well educated we have all of the you know the human capital that we would need to stand on
• 2:07:47
  our own two feet well why are we well educated because we've had center left governments that
• 2:07:51
  have invested in public education and we haven't been deranged by constant squabbling an
• 2:07:55
  argument over charter schools and we don't fund our public schools through local property taxes
• 2:08:00
  which entrench the trenches inequality by meaning that people who live in poor neighborhoods
• 2:08:03
  go to poor shitty schools and people who live in rich neighborhoods go to expensive ones it's a
• 2:08:08
  needs based education system where each state allocates education so the system functions properly
• 2:08:15
  he talks about the fact that the Australian middle class is fabulous we at that's because we
• 2:08:19
  don't tolerate the levels of inequality that people like him are willing to tolerate in
• 2:08:23
  the United States of America we have higher taxes on the rich and we have better social programs
• 2:08:28
  for the poor he extolls the fact that Australians are really keen on wildlife and we're really
• 2:08:33
  nice towards our you know native animals well okay but you know we also run factory farms and he
• 2:08:42
  eats meat and lives in a country that runs factory farms and he's only using this as a pretext
• 2:08:47
  to then get on to a point that he's trying to make about how the Chinese eat dogs
• 2:08:51
  ostensibly supposedly I'm not sure not sure that dogs are big on the menus in China I think he's
• 2:08:56
  think of Southeast Asia but you know there's always in service of this grand a narrative that he
• 2:09:02
  is trying to articulate and when he drops the breadcrumbs to build the pillars towards the big
• 2:09:08
  flourish at the end where he can kind of tie it all together and say you're being forced to follow
• 2:09:14
  immoral laws you're being rendered obedient you're being made to feel guilty through no fault of
• 2:09:20
  your own and fundamentally you're being replaced by a secret sinister cabal of elites who if you
• 2:09:29
  follow the dots are not just incompetent are not just imperfect in the way that they're dealing with
• 2:09:34
  a very complicated world full of competing priorities but are systematically and intentionally
• 2:09:41
  trying to undermine you and make sure that your children have to pay through the roof for energy
• 2:09:45
  have to pay through the roof for housing and are put out of their own countries by migrants even
• 2:09:52
  strip sometimes of their own citizenship unless you sort of interrogate every single one of the pillars
• 2:09:58
  as they're being constructed and go okay well he's making a good point about this but he's only
• 2:10:02
  doing that in order to give him credibility on the next step of his journey where he's taking the
• 2:10:09
  thing that is a real true problem giving it an explanation and a cause that's only a half truth
• 2:10:15
  in order to reach a conclusion that is almost entirely bullshit like migrants of the reason why
• 2:10:21
  property prices are expensive by the time you get to the end the whole kind of edifice has been built
• 2:10:26
  and there's you're not able to sort of go back in and pick out the ways in which he was being
• 2:10:32
  disingenuous all along so suffice it to say Donald Trump is trying to strip American citizens of
• 2:10:39
  their citizenship if they didn't acquire it in a way that he approves of the Supreme Court will
• 2:10:44
  be chiming it on that that is not consistent with Tucker Carlson's appeals to the importance of
• 2:10:49
  the citizens the citizenry being the owners of the country whoever duty to stand up against their
• 2:10:55
  tyrannical overlords Donald Trump and the Republicans are the side of politics who tolerate public
• 2:11:01
  squalor and under investment in public goods at the same time as their ally and lap dog Tucker
• 2:11:08
  Carlson goes to Russia to be fated by Vladimir Putin in a softball interview where he posts
• 2:11:16
  dispatches from big public infrastructure projects in Moscow and St Petersburg and talks about
• 2:11:23
  how glorious and glamorous the Moscow subway looks in comparison to America's crumbling infrastructure
• 2:11:28
  yeah well of course you get to spend a lot of money on infrastructure when your communists
• 2:11:35
  capitalist don't spend a lot of money on public infrastructure so what are you exactly Tucker
• 2:11:40
  what exactly is Tucker Carlson arguing for except to come to a country like Australia see the fruits
• 2:11:47
  of a center left demos in comparison to the United States that is with universal health care very
• 2:11:53
  government mandated minimum wages robust social safety nets real investment in public education
• 2:12:00
  and a general disdain most importantly perhaps for the kinds of culture wars that Tucker Carlson
• 2:12:06
  himself pedals and then for him to come here see this and go you guys have got it so great
• 2:12:11
  I'm going to tell you what you should do you should import more of the kind of feeling of
• 2:12:18
  a grieved white nationalism white Christian nationalism that I'm using to tear apart my home
• 2:12:23
  country that's what you need more of here it only takes 10% of a population to stand up against
• 2:12:30
  the tyrants who are trying to replace you with all the migrants it's a really fucking insidious
• 2:12:36
  thing to do it's a nasty small petty worldview and the reason why it sort of frustrates me so much
• 2:12:43
  is because he's so good at touching on things that are true it like it is true that we have
• 2:12:49
  mishandled the conversation around mass immigration in Australia and the UK and the US
• 2:12:56
  it is true that in the US it has been too to boo to talk about the total crisis at the southern
• 2:13:03
  border and the fact that illegal immigration is not a good thing that the country needs to get
• 2:13:09
  its hands around and that we need some compromise on and the fact that it's been that we've had to
• 2:13:14
  have like sanctuary cities and we're out to treat in order to be a good person you've had to
• 2:13:20
  treat immigration law enforcement as if it's evil and simply breaking apart families instead of
• 2:13:25
  saying okay that's just the enforcement of the law but let's still support legal immigration
• 2:13:30
  in a similarly you can see there's a million places in a million different ways in these culture
• 2:13:34
  issues in Australia it should have been easier to say I understand that you think that doing
• 2:13:39
  a land acknowledgement at the beginning of a meeting is great personally I'm more focused on
• 2:13:44
  practical ways that we can improve reconciliation and relations between our different communities
• 2:13:49
  and improve the lot of First Nations Australians I think it's a bit tokenistic I'm not going to do it
• 2:13:53
  you can't you haven't been able to do that without getting such a pile on from the media from
• 2:14:01
  HR departments from universities I mean this is just inconceivable but it has been made so to
• 2:14:07
  boo even just on you know the question of tuck up picking at the trans scab again that culture war
• 2:14:14
  that horrid culture war cliche like had there been more of a conversation about winning hearts and
• 2:14:20
  minds instead of more conversations how shutting people down as turfs we wouldn't find ourselves in
• 2:14:27
  a situation which were also volatile and so vulnerable to these kinds of ideas so he's right
• 2:14:33
  that we have lost the capacity to have conversations in a reasonable and sane way and what's scary
• 2:14:41
  is that there are enough people who are disoriented for completely unrelated reasons globalisation
• 2:14:47
  economic decline decline of manufacturing the rise of artificial intelligence addiction to
• 2:14:51
  social media algorithms algorithmic news a decline of newspapers all of these things are very
• 2:14:57
  disorienting and they have largely nothing to do with the kind of culture war stuff that Tucker
• 2:15:03
  Carlson is peddling but because we've left ourselves vulnerable on the progressive side of politics
• 2:15:11
  to accusations of being sensorious scolds who have lost our capacity to feel real empathy and
• 2:15:18
  respect for people who are doing it hardest and to be real champions of economic justice and we've
• 2:15:23
  instead gotten into this crouch of very school marmish word policing and thought policing to try
• 2:15:30
  to test whether you're on the right side of things it provides an opening the size of an aircraft
• 2:15:35
  hanger for people like Tucker Carlson to come in and spin a world view that makes a lot of sense
• 2:15:42
  when you don't do what I've just done and spend over an hour picking it apart and analyzing it
• 2:15:48
  and what worries me is people don't have this time to do this you know this is my job I have the
• 2:15:53
  luxury of trying to analyse exactly when a charlatan is trying to hoodwink me and trying to spot
• 2:16:00
  where the magician is misdirecting me most people don't and that's not their fault
• 2:16:07
  so when Tucker Carlson sits down with someone who really admires Hitler and talks about how
• 2:16:15
  organised Jews organised Jewry is the source of all our problems
• 2:16:28
  I'm left speechless really about how we got here and it's not because I think there's an easy
• 2:16:36
  answer about whether or not claims that Jews are in a giant cabal that's betraying everybody
• 2:16:46
  deserved to be aired it's more just my heartfelt concern that something is fundamentally broken
• 2:16:55
  about the way that we're having conversations about the most important issues of the 21st century
• 2:16:59
  and there's only so many smarmy little podcasters like myself who can take potshots from the sidelines
• 2:17:10
  before we are inundated by a tsunami of confused and confusing and manipulative propagandists
• 2:17:22
  who are peddling ideas so old and so tired that they are quite literally the oldest clichés in human
• 2:17:35
  civilisation the Jews being the ones who are stabbing everyone in the back they're the capitalists
• 2:17:41
  but they're also the communists they're kind of sniveling and macchiavellian but they're also
• 2:17:48
  incompetent and stupid they're lazy and no good and you know they're a drain on society
• 2:17:55
  but they're also hyper productive and kind of crafty and they take jobs away from other people like
• 2:17:59
  they have flip sides of the same coin and always happen this is a deep meme in civilizational
• 2:18:06
  consciousness it's a strange phenomenon anti-semitism it erupts in weird ways and at the moment
• 2:18:15
  it has lately been erupting in ways that dare not speak their name you know either an undue focus
• 2:18:23
  for some reason on the plight of Palestinians versus other dispossessed people in ways that
• 2:18:29
  talk about Zionists as being bloodthirsty barbarians who love the taste of children's blood and
• 2:18:37
  sort of those kinds of tropes or on the right in forms of white nationalism which don't quite
• 2:18:43
  come out and talk about the Jews directly but obviously believe that an Aryan white ownership
• 2:18:49
  of Western countries is desirable and we're bleeding away from those subtle forms of anti-semitism
• 2:18:57
  and race hate into much more overt ones and Tucker Carlson is now officially a facilitator of that
• 2:19:04
  the last thing I'll say about this is that as I am recording one of the most influential
• 2:19:12
  right wing think tanks in America the heritage foundation is in turmoil after its leader Kevin
• 2:19:18
  Roberts defended Tucker Carlson for having a Holocaust denier and white nationalist on his show
• 2:19:29
  I don't know whether the leader of the heritage foundation will be able to keep his job
• 2:19:33
  but there is an enormous split brewing on the right in America after many Republicans
• 2:19:40
  distance themselves from Tucker Carlson notably though as yet not the president nor the vice
• 2:19:46
  president who you know let's face it seemed to enjoy this kind of playing footsie with white
• 2:19:53
  nationalism and this the way that the kind of grievances of the populist Christian nationalist
• 2:19:59
  rights are exemplified in people like Tucker Carlson and the heritage foundation is the organization
• 2:20:05
  that produced the now infamous project 2025 which was a list of plans of how Donald Trump should
• 2:20:12
  he win his second term which of course he went on to do would radically reshape American government
• 2:20:18
  American bureaucracy and American life so if you ever thought Tucker Carlson was a side show
• 2:20:26
  he ain't anymore I hope it's useful to break down the way that he constructs his arguments the way
• 2:20:32
  that he uses his good points to bolster his bad points and to think carefully when you speak to
• 2:20:39
  other people who sound convincing and conspiratorial and common-sensical in ways that are just a
• 2:20:48
  little bit too tidy a little bit too neat a little bit too manipulative and pat I'll see you for
• 2:20:55
  a regular episode next time