Latest / All About The Joy / Money Stress, Policy Choices, and Real Relief with Dana Miranda

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Money Stress, Policy Choices, and Real Relief with Dana Miranda · All About The Joy

• 0:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Hi, everyone.
• 0:01
  Carmen Lezeth: Welcome to All About the Joy.
• 0:02
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm Carmen Lisa, your host, and in the house, Dana Miranda is back.
• 0:07
  Carmen Lezeth: And I'm so glad to have you here.
• 0:09
  Carmen Lezeth: I was just telling you, I'm I I had to go to work this morning and I just got back, and I just feel so out of sorts.
• 0:17
  Carmen Lezeth: So I'm just gonna apologize to you up front.
• 0:20
  Carmen Lezeth: I think um I don't know how to explain it.
• 0:24
  Carmen Lezeth: This conversation that we're going to have is always a hard conversation because people don't like to talk about money.
• 0:31
  Carmen Lezeth: But I wanted to bring you back on the show, and I'm so glad you agreed.
• 0:35
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank you so much because um we've known each other for a while now.
• 0:40
  Carmen Lezeth: You are also the author of this great book.
• 0:44
  Carmen Lezeth: You don't need a budget.
• 0:46
  Carmen Lezeth: I have read it, I keep referring to it.
• 0:49
  Carmen Lezeth: I've given it as a gift to one person.
• 0:52
  Carmen Lezeth: I, you know, I want to give it to other people too.
• 0:54
  Carmen Lezeth: I actually think what I love about the book more is that it emotionally is teaching me something.
• 1:00
  Carmen Lezeth: So I don't want to keep rambling.
• 1:03
  Carmen Lezeth: I just want to tell you this thing.
• 1:04
  Carmen Lezeth: So thank you for being here.
• 1:06
  Carmen Lezeth: How are you?
• 1:07
  Carmen Lezeth: How is your new year starting?
• 1:09
  Carmen Lezeth: Uh, it's good.
• 1:10
  Dana Miranda: It's good.
• 1:11
  Dana Miranda: I'm doing well.
• 1:12
  Dana Miranda: I feel like as wild as things still are in our world, I do feel like we're turning a corner a little bit to where we might at least be headed in a better direction.
• 1:25
  Dana Miranda: I think we went into 2025 afraid of what was gonna happen.
• 1:30
  Dana Miranda: And I'm going into 2026 hopeful for change, optimistic, truly optimistic for change and feeling a little better.
• 1:39
  Dana Miranda: Look at me.
• 1:40
  Dana Miranda: I'm like, I'm trying to stop talking, Carmen, really.
• 1:43
  Carmen Lezeth: Right?
• 1:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Look at when you emailed me and you said that, I was like, okay, she has to be on the show.
• 1:49
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, I wanted you on the show anyway.
• 1:51
  Carmen Lezeth: You're such a supporter of me, and I just want to say thank you.
• 1:54
  Carmen Lezeth: I've said that before, but you are a supporter of me as a writer and you support the show, and so I appreciate that so much.
• 2:02
  Carmen Lezeth: But I think you're crazy about this statement that you made, and I'm dying to know what you mean by it.
• 2:08
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 2:09
  Carmen Lezeth: So can you expand on that a bit?
• 2:11
  Carmen Lezeth: Sure.
• 2:13
  Dana Miranda: Um, and there's probably just an amount of privilege in my position, too.
• 2:21
  Dana Miranda: So maybe I'm a Midwest white lady sitting back and being like, things are looking better.
• 2:27
  Dana Miranda: The reason that I'm feeling optimistic is that, you know, I'm like talking politically, of course, with the Trump regime coming in in 2025, that we were all afraid of what he was going to do because he made a lot of horrific promises and immediately started taking steps to follow through on them.
• 2:42
  Dana Miranda: But we have watched over and over and over through 2025 how the administration bungles everything that they tried to do.
• 2:51
  Dana Miranda: Doge is dissipated at this point, it's having no effect, right?
• 2:56
  Dana Miranda: And also they are losing in the courts, which makes me very hopeful.
• 3:00
  Dana Miranda: So every everything that they have tried to do is meeting a lot of resistance, and also they're just failing to do it.
• 3:08
  Dana Miranda: Like they're they're reminding us that they're incompetent, uh, which we we always forget about when we have a break from Trump, how incompetent the administration is.
• 3:16
  Dana Miranda: So that's where the hope is for me.
• 3:19
  Dana Miranda: So financially, thinking in the money world, in my world too, 2025 was really scary because we didn't know what was going to happen with the economy.
• 3:29
  Dana Miranda: And I think we're still there.
• 3:30
  Dana Miranda: I think that's still really uncertain.
• 3:32
  Dana Miranda: And it's just been doing this weird thing for so long where it's like the economy keeps threatening to tank and destroy all of our lives.
• 3:41
  Dana Miranda: And it doesn't quite do that.
• 3:43
  Dana Miranda: Um, but we are in kind of a weird like the job market is scary.
• 3:48
  Dana Miranda: I was laid off last fall and I'm still looking for a job.
• 3:51
  Dana Miranda: So I'm like in the world.
• 3:52
  Carmen Lezeth: Which is why I'm confused you are supporting our show so much.
• 3:55
  Carmen Lezeth: You know, I mean, she Dana financially supports me on Substack, which I was shook by.
• 4:01
  Carmen Lezeth: Um you don't have to do that.
• 4:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, nobody has to, but I, you know, I appreciate your work.
• 4:07
  Dana Miranda: And so yeah.
• 4:08
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank you.
• 4:08
  Carmen Lezeth: I just want to back up before you go further because I feel like you said some things that I I just I don't disagree with.
• 4:16
  Carmen Lezeth: First of all, I know that you are one of these people who always talks about your privilege, and I appreciate that, right?
• 4:21
  Carmen Lezeth: As a woman of color.
• 4:22
  Carmen Lezeth: But I also think at some point the it's just so blurred.
• 4:26
  Carmen Lezeth: This isn't even about your privilege anymore.
• 4:28
  Carmen Lezeth: We're all in this together now.
• 4:31
  Carmen Lezeth: Like this is not even about a race thing or an economic thing.
• 4:35
  Carmen Lezeth: This is the Trump administration has just it has just shown us where all of our flaws are in our constitution.
• 4:44
  Carmen Lezeth: And um I I still have faith, but it's dwindling in the American people.
• 4:52
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, and I think what you're saying is you still have faith that that we can get through this now that we know what we know.
• 4:59
  Carmen Lezeth: But I feel like I knew all along.
• 5:01
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I wasn't confused, Dana.
• 5:03
  Carmen Lezeth: I wasn't and then here's what I'll say when it comes to like student loans, right?
• 5:09
  Carmen Lezeth: When it comes to things that affect me personally, groceries and whatever, I'm like, I think it can get worse.
• 5:17
  Carmen Lezeth: Am I being pessimistic?
• 5:20
  Dana Miranda: Probably not.
• 5:20
  Dana Miranda: I think you're right, it can get worse for sure.
• 5:23
  Dana Miranda: And we also have to remember that there are most likely three more years of this administration before he's out, right?
• 5:32
  Dana Miranda: Like my the the at my best moments of optimism, I feel like we'll usher in a democratic um majority in 2026 and they will actually be able to kick Trump out of office in 27.
• 5:49
  Dana Miranda: Um, but that's incredibly optimistic.
• 5:51
  Dana Miranda: And uh and we've seen our legislators have the opportunity to do that in the past and didn't.
• 5:59
  Dana Miranda: So so I'm not counting on that.
• 6:01
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, no, so just so that the audience understands what we're talking about is the House and the Senate can be, it looks like we're going to get the House back in democratic hands.
• 6:13
  Carmen Lezeth: Right now, um, we are the minority, and then uh the Senate is breaking up.
• 6:19
  Carmen Lezeth: That it's I mean, that's really hopeful that we can also take over the Senate.
• 6:24
  Carmen Lezeth: I want to stress something um that I think is important for people to understand.
• 6:28
  Carmen Lezeth: Congress has the ability to stop all of this right now, and they are choosing not to.
• 6:34
  Carmen Lezeth: So every time we're upset with what Trump is doing, please know that the enablers, the Congress have has more power than the president does, you know, and they're not using it at all.
• 6:47
  Carmen Lezeth: So I just wanted to explain that to our audience about what you're talking about.
• 6:51
  Carmen Lezeth: We we have the ability to elect people into office in 2026, and hopefully it'll be a democratic Congress, and that's what you're hoping about.
• 6:59
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, and I think I think that's the drum that needs to be beat this year is to remove Republicans and work toward that democratic majority, because that's that's the first step that needs to happen to get this administration under control.
• 7:13
  Dana Miranda: You know, I'm not a hundred percent in support of what Democrats are doing at any given moment either.
• 7:19
  Dana Miranda: Well, all of us, I mean the same people are not at least by the Trump administration because it's politically expedient for them, if nothing else, you know.
• 7:26
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, even not necessarily because it's the right thing to do.
• 7:29
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, I think part of the problem is it's the cult like mentality that we're having a problem with.
• 7:34
  Carmen Lezeth: So um, but okay, how does this relate to people financially in their everyday life?
• 7:42
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, why are you saying what you're saying?
• 7:45
  Carmen Lezeth: And why does the political aspect of this matter so much to you?
• 7:51
  Dana Miranda: So it's important day to day because everything that is involved in our personal relationship with money is the effect of some policy decision down the line.
• 8:07
  Dana Miranda: And we don't talk about that enough in personal finance.
• 8:09
  Dana Miranda: And that's something I think is really important, even if we're not talking about politics in like the horse race thing or like a we need a democratic majority kind of thing, or who's in whatever office.
• 8:19
  Dana Miranda: It's really important to make that connection to the larger structure, uh, the larger systems, and to understand specifically that policy decisions are impacting our personal financial situations, that it's not, we aren't in the situations that we're in of like, for example, having overwhelming student loan debt and having trouble repaying that because of our individual personal decisions.
• 8:45
  Dana Miranda: We're in that situation because of how policy and culture shaped that our relationship with student loans and education.
• 8:53
  Carmen Lezeth: Can we even drill it down even a little bit?
• 8:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Uh because a lot of people don't have student loans, right?
• 8:59
  Carmen Lezeth: A lot of people don't.
• 9:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Can we talk?
• 9:01
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, like tariffs.
• 9:03
  Carmen Lezeth: How do tariffs affect, right?
• 9:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Because everyone knows that Trump loves tariffs.
• 9:07
  Carmen Lezeth: How do tariffs affect like a regular person like me on an everyday basis?
• 9:12
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, I'll speak to that.
• 9:14
  Dana Miranda: So without having the expertise of like really knowing the details of those policies and especially not like international trade is for sure out of my wheelhouse.
• 9:25
  Dana Miranda: But I think one piece of that's really important is just how constantly absorbing this news and this information impacts our relationship with money, right?
• 9:39
  Dana Miranda: Like everybody's afraid going to the grocery store right now.
• 9:42
  Dana Miranda: And that that was the case before Trump took office because we immediately started talking about the fact that tariffs were coming, right?
• 9:49
  Dana Miranda: That was the case before the majority of the tariffs were put in place, I think in April was people were already afraid going to the grocery store, were already feeling strapped, right?
• 10:00
  Dana Miranda: Whether those prices had already changed or not, or whether the tariffs had had an impact.
• 10:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Um or just even understanding what that meant, because it felt like this new word, this new thing that he was pushing.
• 10:12
  Carmen Lezeth: And then you were having people explain that tariffs were actually a tax on the consumer.
• 10:17
  Dana Miranda: So it became through, you know, by way of the corporations, right?
• 10:22
  Dana Miranda: So tariffs are a tax on the corporation for importing whatever they're importing and the parts of things that they're making and selling.
• 10:30
  Dana Miranda: Um, and they pass that cost on to consumers.
• 10:34
  Dana Miranda: And I think what's what we've seen since the pandemic in particular is because there's so much awareness of those tariffs happening, corporations are really brazen with passing those costs on to consumers.
• 10:50
  Dana Miranda: Like companies always have costs and they have to decide how much of that cost they're willing to eat and how much they're willing to raise prices to sell us stuff, right?
• 10:58
  Dana Miranda: And when there's just when it's out in the ether and everybody's talking about tariffs and how they're going to raise prices, corporations are like, yeah, okay, great.
• 11:07
  Dana Miranda: Everybody's ready for us to raise prices.
• 11:09
  Dana Miranda: So they're doing that.
• 11:09
  Dana Miranda: They were doing it before their costs actually went up.
• 11:12
  Dana Miranda: The same thing happened with talk around inflation.
• 11:16
  Dana Miranda: Uh, you know, after the pandemic hit in 2020, companies were making more money, but they didn't their costs were going down.
• 11:24
  Dana Miranda: They didn't raise uh, sorry, reduce the prices for us.
• 11:27
  Dana Miranda: No, that's everything is inflated and costs more than it did before 2020.
• 11:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Right, because corporations are always going to take care of themselves and their shareholders first, right?
• 11:36
  Carmen Lezeth: So they're always gonna do what's in the best interest of them.
• 11:38
  Carmen Lezeth: And that's not anyone like I'm not a big hater of capitalism, but it's kind of like this idea that corporations are not always preserving themselves first is something that I don't understand why the regular consumer doesn't understand.
• 11:52
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 11:53
  Carmen Lezeth: They're always gonna take care of their shareholders first.
• 11:55
  Carmen Lezeth: We're not the most important thing, like my ability to pay for eggs is not their concern.
• 12:02
  Dana Miranda: Uh not at all, right?
• 12:03
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, or to feed your children or to pay your rent or anything, absolutely.
• 12:06
  Dana Miranda: And especially as we put more and more distance between us as people, as a consumer, and the people who are making those decisions and the shareholders.
• 12:16
  Dana Miranda: But yeah, it's I think because most of us don't think like a business and we don't have that business mindset.
• 12:23
  Dana Miranda: I think people who are running business, people who are entrepreneurial kind of have that understanding because it seems very clear.
• 12:31
  Dana Miranda: You just look at what the incentive is.
• 12:33
  Dana Miranda: The incentive is to make money for the shareholders.
• 12:35
  Dana Miranda: That's also a policy decision, right?
• 12:37
  Dana Miranda: The uh rules that are in place for public corporations require them to think and to work in the best interest of shareholders, not often in the best interest of consumers, right?
• 12:48
  Dana Miranda: Their their entire um their entire responsibility is to make sure that they're not losing money for people who are investing in their companies and something at a policy level.
• 13:00
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, no, there's no morality to it, right?
• 13:03
  Dana Miranda: Or you know, what I've seen, and I'd be curious, um, because we are in of different generations, Carmen.
• 13:09
  Dana Miranda: We are, I'm older.
• 13:11
  Dana Miranda: But I have seen, you know, I'm I'm 40 this year, and I've seen in my adult life the like I mean, we have talked about it culturally, inshidification of things, and that we talk about that digitally and like social media, but overall products are being in shidified, like the degradation of quality of things because companies are have just given up on being concerned with giving us a good product.
• 13:41
  Dana Miranda: All of the effort and all of the resources they have go into selling us a product, and it's kind of embarrassing when you think from a business standpoint how terrible products and services have gotten.
• 13:54
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 13:54
  Carmen Lezeth: The the so, like a great example is even just, I don't know, um like a microwave or a TV.
• 14:01
  Carmen Lezeth: There was a time I remember when and this is so long ago, but um, I'm in my 50s, so that's the that's the generational difference.
• 14:11
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, you know, there was more metal to everything, everything was heavier and it lasted.
• 14:18
  Carmen Lezeth: You could buy a TV and it would last you 15 years.
• 14:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I don't remember growing up us having to buy a new TV.
• 14:25
  Carmen Lezeth: And it's all plasticky and and it breaks and it doesn't, and I'm, you know, I'm kind of just coming up with an example, but it's kind of that thing where things are not made as well as they used to be.
• 14:43
  Carmen Lezeth: They're marketed in a way to be better for us or better for the environment or better, whatever.
• 14:48
  Carmen Lezeth: And then there may be some truth to that.
• 14:49
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm I'm not trying to diss that, but it's cheaply made, and then we have to keep buying it over and over and over again.
• 14:56
  Carmen Lezeth: You know, the whole phone thing, the the whole iPhone thing is a great example of like, especially back in the day when when phones became a thing, it was like every every year people were buying a thousand dollar phone.
• 15:09
  Carmen Lezeth: There's no need to, right?
• 15:11
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 15:12
  Dana Miranda: Well, the technology upgrades were actually happening at the time too.
• 15:15
  Dana Miranda: Like every new version of the phone.
• 15:20
  Dana Miranda: Yeah.
• 15:20
  Dana Miranda: Generation, that's what they call it.
• 15:22
  Dana Miranda: Every new generation of the phone was better.
• 15:24
  Dana Miranda: And it's not really like that anymore.
• 15:26
  Dana Miranda: And they're still trying to sell it that way.
• 15:29
  Dana Miranda: So yeah, but yeah, they're just trying having to find other ways for those things to become irrelevant.
• 15:36
  Dana Miranda: Right.
• 15:37
  Carmen Lezeth: Imagine a world where they were so like if we were all concerned more about us as individuals.
• 15:43
  Carmen Lezeth: I can't even imagine that.
• 15:44
  Carmen Lezeth: And can I ask you this question?
• 15:46
  Carmen Lezeth: What are your thoughts on this?
• 15:47
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm surprised by how many people think that our finances and how we're doing as a country is based on Wall Street.
• 15:55
  Carmen Lezeth: Like you see that, right?
• 15:57
  Carmen Lezeth: Oh, the economy's doing great.
• 15:58
  Carmen Lezeth: It's not doing great for you, little person who's not invested.
• 16:03
  Dana Miranda: That is a problem, in my opinion, with media, in news media in general, personal finance media, because we report what's going on in the stock market as if it's relevant to everybody.
• 16:21
  Dana Miranda: When the vast majority of money in the stock market is held by a tiny minority of Americans.
• 16:28
  Dana Miranda: And so most of us are not being impacted day to day by the movement and the Dow and the NASDAQ and all, right?
• 16:36
  Dana Miranda: But for some reason, we all absorb that information in our lives.
• 16:41
  Dana Miranda: People will sit and watch.
• 16:42
  Dana Miranda: Well, there's a ticker at the bottom of every huge thing.
• 16:46
  Dana Miranda: Right, right.
• 16:47
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, well, that's going back to the iPhone.
• 16:50
  Dana Miranda: I was so happy when you could finally delete the stocks app that just automatically comes with the iPhone.
• 16:56
  Dana Miranda: I'm Android.
• 16:58
  Carmen Lezeth: I've never I've never been an iPhone.
• 17:00
  Carmen Lezeth: And I know there are some huge differences between both of those, but yeah.
• 17:03
  Carmen Lezeth: So you can you recently were able to take the ticker off.
• 17:06
  Dana Miranda: In maybe in the last 10 years or something, it feels recent.
• 17:08
  Dana Miranda: But yeah.
• 17:09
  Dana Miranda: So yeah, it's just this thing like stock tickers should not be part of most of our lives.
• 17:15
  Dana Miranda: Like if if you're investing the average person, it's in a retirement account.
• 17:20
  Dana Miranda: Many of us are not even doing that.
• 17:22
  Dana Miranda: Because we can't afford yeah, but watching market performance day to day does it shouldn't impact your decisions for retirement savings.
• 17:31
  Dana Miranda: So it's completely just not information that you need to have.
• 17:35
  Dana Miranda: Day to day, no one should have to be watching the movement of the stock market.
• 17:40
  Dana Miranda: It's not relevant to your life.
• 17:42
  Dana Miranda: But I suspect that psychologically, the reason that people are attracted to that is there is kind of a feeling of having some kind of control.
• 17:51
  Dana Miranda: It feels like information you should have because it's information you're being given by like major news outlets.
• 17:57
  Dana Miranda: Um, the it's the same way I think that we absorb political news that often is not relevant to us day to day and not something we can take action on.
• 18:06
  Dana Miranda: But it makes you, it gives you kind of a feeling of being in control.
• 18:09
  Dana Miranda: And so I think seeing that stock market.
• 18:10
  Dana Miranda: No, but it's a lie.
• 18:11
  Dana Miranda: Absolutely.
• 18:12
  Dana Miranda: And that's why I encourage people not to watch it.
• 18:14
  Dana Miranda: I think it also makes people make the wrong types of decisions.
• 18:17
  Dana Miranda: You know, you're trying to take control in the wrong places.
• 18:20
  Dana Miranda: Like if you don't have money to invest, tweaking things in your retirement account is like not going to give you control of your financial life, right?
• 18:29
  Dana Miranda: Um, there's you there's other things to focus on in your relationship with money.
• 18:34
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Carmen Lezeth: And let's talk about, let's get into the nitty-gritty of that.
• 18:37
  Carmen Lezeth: What do you see that people should be concerned about tying it back to how hopeful you are?
• 18:43
  Carmen Lezeth: I look at I I I hope you're right.
• 18:46
  Carmen Lezeth: I want you to be right.
• 18:49
  Carmen Lezeth: Um what do you think people should be looking at in 2026 or maybe doing a little bit differently?
• 18:56
  Dana Miranda: So, what's happening this year?
• 18:59
  Dana Miranda: What I see, and this is really a vibes thing, but I think we're kind of running on vibes right now.
• 19:05
  Dana Miranda: But what I'm feeling is sort of feeling like what it felt like in 2009, 10 to kind of be in the recession, the sort of job loss that I'm seeing across sectors, but in media in particular, which is my industry.
• 19:24
  Dana Miranda: Um, and so layoffs are just happening, people are afraid of the impact of AI coming in, that kind of thing.
• 19:31
  Dana Miranda: And so, even though we are not economically moving into a recession, a lot of the experience that people are having, the the precarity that people are experiencing looks a lot like that.
• 19:45
  Dana Miranda: Um, I don't think the numbers are where they were in 2010.
• 19:49
  Dana Miranda: Um, but I don't watch that as well.
• 19:50
  Dana Miranda: I don't know what precarity means.
• 19:52
  Dana Miranda: I can't even say it.
• 19:53
  Dana Miranda: I don't know what precarity means.
• 19:54
  Dana Miranda: Precarity.
• 19:55
  Dana Miranda: So yeah, so it's like uh there's an instability where we're unstable.
• 19:59
  Dana Miranda: Uncertain.
• 20:00
  Dana Miranda: Um, it just feels like even if you can get a job, you're like, who knows when they're gonna take it away from me.
• 20:05
  Dana Miranda: That's what it feels like right now.
• 20:07
  Dana Miranda: And that, you know, it's being reported in the news, there's numbers, it's an interesting phenomenon to look at or whatever, but on a personal level, individually, that really impacts your relationship with money.
• 20:22
  Dana Miranda: Even if you're, you know, if you're out of a job for three months, you're able to get back in, which is, you know, being laid off is kind of more shuffling around, I think, for a lot of people than than joblessness.
• 20:33
  Dana Miranda: But that instability is changing your health insurance.
• 20:36
  Dana Miranda: It's um you're eating through savings every couple of months, you're using debt.
• 20:41
  Dana Miranda: So that's yeah, and that's what's that's what my household is experiencing right now, is that like I know I'm gonna be fine, I know I'm gonna get a job, I'll pay off the debt eventually, I'll maybe rebuild the savings, right?
• 20:52
  Dana Miranda: But right now, it's this uncertainty and it's also a pause in any progress you might be making.
• 20:58
  Dana Miranda: So at a personal level, even if we don't have this like mass joblessness or unemployment and and that kind of thing, it's we're, I think we're stalled because we're all afraid of you know what's gonna happen next.
• 21:12
  Dana Miranda: We're afraid to spend money, even if you feel, even if you're in a good position, people are afraid to make big moves because we don't know what's going to happen next, right?
• 21:22
  Dana Miranda: So I think there's a there's a feeling of just being stalled um financially and making any progress because we don't know when the rug is gonna be pulled out from under us at any point.
• 21:34
  Carmen Lezeth: So do you think people should be just stop making so many choices, be okay in the space that we're at at the moment?
• 21:42
  Carmen Lezeth: Is that kind of question?
• 21:43
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, and I remember you asked for advice and I didn't offer any.
• 21:46
  Dana Miranda: So yeah, it's but to deal with that.
• 21:49
  Dana Miranda: What's the conversation the next year or so is going to look like because of the uncertainty that we face under this regime?
• 21:57
  Dana Miranda: What does that mean?
• 21:58
  Dana Miranda: Um the biggest thing I would say, because this is always my message, is to understand that that's what's going on and to deal with the emotional side of it by not blaming yourself.
• 22:18
  Dana Miranda: And to also understand, like maybe you will use through some of your savings.
• 22:23
  Dana Miranda: Maybe you'll pull money from a retirement account, maybe you'll accumulate more credit card debt than you normally did.
• 22:29
  Dana Miranda: Um, maybe you won't build savings as fast as you have in the past.
• 22:34
  Dana Miranda: The circumstances are different, and it's okay, like we're in a season where that those things are probably gonna change.
• 22:41
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, I think that kind of is the crux, and you could yell at me if you want, but the crux of your book, um, you don't need a budget, is this emotional connection we have with money.
• 22:54
  Carmen Lezeth: And I think I'm I'm gonna tie it into something else.
• 22:56
  Carmen Lezeth: I spoke to another friend of mine the other day who was having a tough time with everything that's happening.
• 23:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, and they live in a red state, there were a blue dot in a red state, one of those things, and it's just overwhelming.
• 23:10
  Carmen Lezeth: And there was this feeling of some sort of shame in feeling the way you're feeling.
• 23:17
  Carmen Lezeth: And I was like, I I feel the same way.
• 23:20
  Carmen Lezeth: I've cried on my couch too.
• 23:21
  Carmen Lezeth: I've and I think that's kind of what you're saying is like what's right, what's happening right now, especially when it comes to our money, we're going to have to make some changes and don't beat yourself up about it.
• 23:31
  Carmen Lezeth: Absolutely.
• 23:31
  Carmen Lezeth: Don't don't be so mean to yourself about it.
• 23:34
  Carmen Lezeth: All of it is not under your control.
• 23:36
  Carmen Lezeth: You got to make some choices.
• 23:38
  Carmen Lezeth: And those choices, maybe 10 years ago, would have been a different circumstance and you might have made it different, but we have right now.
• 23:45
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, is that kind of a good idea?
• 23:46
  Carmen Lezeth: Absolutely.
• 23:46
  Dana Miranda: And and you're right, that is largely the crux of the book, too, is and that's why it's important to understand that systemic impact and the systemic connection to personal finance.
• 24:00
  Dana Miranda: Like we kind of keep macroeconomics and microeconomics as separate fields.
• 24:05
  Dana Miranda: Um, but they're they're so intertwined.
• 24:09
  Dana Miranda: Like what's happening at a macro level, what's happening in the stock market does impact us down the line, right?
• 24:15
  Dana Miranda: But just not in the way that people on a daily basis basis.
• 24:19
  Dana Miranda: Yeah.
• 24:19
  Dana Miranda: It impacts what corporations are doing, which impacts, you know, how they're hiring, how they're paying us, how they're treating us, kind of thing.
• 24:25
  Dana Miranda: And that impacts us day-to-day.
• 24:27
  Dana Miranda: Like it's this more of a downstream sort of effect.
• 24:30
  Dana Miranda: But um, yeah, so there's a lot, like I would largely encourage people to give themselves grace this year because our relationships with money are just really weird right now.
• 24:43
  Dana Miranda: Like we're we are sitting in constant fear of the r being pulled out from under us, and that's a really tough situation to be in.
• 24:51
  Dana Miranda: Um it's we can understand that we're in a difficult and uncertain time, but it can be really hard to make individual financial choices when from the personal finance space, the advice that you're getting is just to continue to buckle down.
• 25:10
  Dana Miranda: You know, I even see, and this is what really bothers me as Father's during the pandemic, too, during the recession, that like news media, personal finance media will acknowledge, oh, the inflation is high, the price of groceries are high, housing has gone up or whatever.
• 25:24
  Dana Miranda: Here are five ways to deal with it, and it's all, you know, budget and spend less money and restrict more and and all of these things that like none of that is the issue, right?
• 25:32
  Dana Miranda: The the one thing that you that we should be doing is changing policy.
• 25:35
  Dana Miranda: So the only thing individuals can do is vote for different people.
• 25:38
  Dana Miranda: Um but it's none of it is say that again.
• 25:42
  Carmen Lezeth: Please say that again because I think it's important.
• 25:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Please say that again.
• 25:46
  Dana Miranda: I will, and I actually I had somebody respond because I said this in a chapter in the book, um, and someone responded and and felt much more negative about it.
• 25:54
  Dana Miranda: But I think on an individual level, the one thing that we can absolutely do to make a a change is to vote and vote for the right people.
• 26:06
  Dana Miranda: I think most of the people listening to this conversation, right?
• 26:08
  Dana Miranda: Vote for the people who are going to make the changes that are uh helping working class people and and you know, and not corporations and and businesses, companies.
• 26:18
  Dana Miranda: Right.
• 26:19
  Dana Miranda: So, but that's you know, that's at an individual level.
• 26:22
  Dana Miranda: When we're being told like what you need to do is pay off your debt and and budget harder and be more disciplined with your money, right?
• 26:32
  Dana Miranda: Those aren't actually realistic things we can do often to change our financial situation.
• 26:36
  Dana Miranda: Um, but one realistic individual, in a lot of cases, very simple step that you can take is to vote.
• 26:45
  Carmen Lezeth: Um you don't have to say you kind, you do way too kind.
• 26:53
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm gonna I'm gonna reinterpret this just a little bit.
• 26:56
  Carmen Lezeth: All right.
• 26:56
  Carmen Lezeth: When you are being told over and over again in all different types of media that the problem that you're having with not being able to pay your bills is your fault because you didn't budget well, because you didn't save, because you bought a, you know, you say this, the the your latte or whatever, you spent six dollars on a coffee or whatever, and that the problem is you, that you have not done the right things.
• 27:20
  Carmen Lezeth: That's that's bullshit.
• 27:22
  Carmen Lezeth: All of that is bullshit because you know what makes it easier to have a budget and to change your budget?
• 27:28
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what?
• 27:29
  Carmen Lezeth: Money.
• 27:30
  Carmen Lezeth: When you have money, you can budget your ass off.
• 27:34
  Carmen Lezeth: Like you can really make some major changes.
• 27:37
  Carmen Lezeth: And I know that as a person who went from having absolutely nothing to then having tons of money to then not having it again.
• 27:44
  Carmen Lezeth: But when you have money, you're able to make some different choices and really change up things, you know?
• 27:49
  Carmen Lezeth: And and so I love when you say this because I I feel like for I don't know who reached out to you and and had a negative, I'm curious what what was it that they were trying to say?
• 28:01
  Dana Miranda: It's so there's a lot of cynicism about the impact our vote can have because people think no matter who you vote for, people get into office and they don't make a difference.
• 28:10
  Dana Miranda: And in a lot of cases, they're not doing the right things once they're in office.
• 28:14
  Dana Miranda: That is true.
• 28:15
  Dana Miranda: Um, but it and and that is on them.
• 28:21
  Dana Miranda: Like that's a systemic problem, that's an institutional problem with the parties and and um the way, you know, the way that elections are funded and all these things.
• 28:30
  Dana Miranda: So that's all again, not an individual blame.
• 28:32
  Dana Miranda: Um, but if we take that simple step of going out and voting, that changes how the institution operates because they think they can get away with it because we're not paying attention.
• 28:43
  Dana Miranda: They think they can get away with it because we don't vote anyway.
• 28:46
  Dana Miranda: So they don't have to listen to right.
• 28:48
  Carmen Lezeth: It's like chicken egg thing, chicken egg thing.
• 28:50
  Carmen Lezeth: It's like around like I also am trying to tell people you need to pay attention to your local, your local people, your state, whatever's happening in your county, in your state, be involved.
• 29:02
  Carmen Lezeth: And I don't know why people are so resistant, but I also think that's the way it's been designed, right?
• 29:07
  Carmen Lezeth: If if we're just apathetic and we don't do anything, then people can go do what they want.
• 29:12
  Carmen Lezeth: But I I agree with you.
• 29:14
  Carmen Lezeth: I I think you should vote.
• 29:16
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, I I'm not saying don't have any responsibility for your finances.
• 29:20
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm just saying stop being so cruel to yourself about every single thing that happens.
• 29:25
  Carmen Lezeth: And it took me a long time.
• 29:27
  Carmen Lezeth: It did, it took me a long time to understand that who I am as a human being has nothing to do with my bank account.
• 29:33
  Carmen Lezeth: And the way that I learned it was because I had met so many wealthy people who and I worked for them, and they were the nastiest, ugliest human beings I'd ever met.
• 29:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Not all rich people, but yeah, some of the ones I work for.
• 29:47
  Carmen Lezeth: And I realized like, money don't make you classy, money don't make you beautiful, money does not make you a good person, money gives you choices.
• 29:57
  Dana Miranda: Yep, yeah.
• 29:58
  Dana Miranda: And being a good person doesn't mean you'll make money, and being a bad person doesn't mean that you won't be able to well, you and I would be billionaires right now.
• 30:07
  Carmen Lezeth: And here's the thing because if it was just about being good people, and then because we don't believe in billionaires, I'm just speaking on behalf of you, we wouldn't actually be building 100%.
• 30:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 30:16
  Dana Miranda: I know I see that all the time when I see how things are being run.
• 30:20
  Dana Miranda: I I have that joke with my partner all the time.
• 30:22
  Dana Miranda: You know, he'll be like, if I were president, and I say, You could never be, you could never get into that position.
• 30:28
  Dana Miranda: Or, you know, if I'm running whatever corporation, I'm like, you could never, because you you could never make the kind of choices it takes to get into that position and and have.
• 30:37
  Carmen Lezeth: That's so weird.
• 30:38
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay, let's see if we can talk about some fun things.
• 30:40
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't think it's gonna be fun, but we're gonna try to do some rapid fire uh questions.
• 30:45
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay, I don't know.
• 30:45
  Carmen Lezeth: Let me just see here.
• 30:46
  Carmen Lezeth: Rapid fire.
• 30:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay.
• 30:47
  Carmen Lezeth: All right.
• 30:48
  Carmen Lezeth: What's a money myth you'd love to retire forever?
• 30:52
  Carmen Lezeth: And you can take your time with it.
• 30:56
  Dana Miranda: There's so many to choose from, my goodness.
• 30:58
  Carmen Lezeth: Oh, oh, okay.
• 30:59
  Dana Miranda: Um a money myth.
• 31:02
  Dana Miranda: I well, to go back to investing, I think one of many money myths that I like to retire is that the idea that if you just start saving now, everything's gonna be fine.
• 31:20
  Dana Miranda: I see that in personal finance a lot where they say no matter how much you can set aside, just start doing it because if you you're gonna build the habit or whatever, whatever the idea that we think, but you're not going to retire on saving a dollar a week with the with an investment app, you know?
• 31:37
  Dana Miranda: Really with an investment app.
• 31:39
  Dana Miranda: Yeah.
• 31:40
  Dana Miranda: I know there's a lot of benefit to building different savings habits and all of these things, but if it's you know, if it's a choice between having the the comfort and luxury in your life today that you deserve to have, and trying to force yourself into some savings habit that isn't actually going to benefit you all that much in the future, you know, that then it's not good advice.
• 32:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 32:06
  Carmen Lezeth: And this is what people, some people have um said about your book that I'm completely, I think they're missing the point.
• 32:15
  Carmen Lezeth: You're not telling people to just throw it all to the wind and walk away and just do what you want today.
• 32:20
  Carmen Lezeth: That is not what you're saying in your book.
• 32:22
  Carmen Lezeth: So every time I read some of those, I think your your book is great.
• 32:26
  Carmen Lezeth: And again, I want to say it again, you do not need a budget.
• 32:29
  Carmen Lezeth: Um thank you.
• 32:31
  Carmen Lezeth: I think it's great also because it's making people have the conversations that they don't normally have, especially people who maybe weren't feeling like they could have the conversation, you know.
• 32:44
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, that's absolutely my favorite thing when someone says they read the book and then they encourage their partner, husband, wife to read the book, um, or that they had, you know, that people are having these like kitchen table conversations inspired by the book, which is incredible.
• 32:59
  Carmen Lezeth: And some people like I I and again, I I your your book is well reviewed, and that's not my point, but because I do read some of the other stuff, I'm like, you're missing the point, you know.
• 33:08
  Carmen Lezeth: Um I actually think it's healthier to deal with the emotional aspects of who you are in relation to money, as opposed to keep blaming yourself.
• 33:19
  Carmen Lezeth: And and I really do think that's the crux of your book is to start getting us to detach ourselves to this, like, I'm a good person if I'm making $200,000 a year.
• 33:29
  Carmen Lezeth: And then somehow I'm a horrible bad person if I lose my job or I only have $30,000 a year now, you know?
• 33:36
  Carmen Lezeth: Um okay.
• 33:38
  Carmen Lezeth: What's a financial rule you personally ignore?
• 33:41
  Carmen Lezeth: Personally, because I know the ones you talk about.
• 33:43
  Carmen Lezeth: Sure.
• 33:45
  Dana Miranda: Um, I don't save for retirement right now.
• 33:47
  Dana Miranda: Um in my last full-time job, I wasn't contributing to a 401k.
• 33:51
  Dana Miranda: Um, I may in the future, so it's it's not a I'm I'm a never say never person for sure.
• 33:58
  Dana Miranda: Um, but I don't prioritize saving in a retirement account um because I have other things to do with the money and I have a limited amount of money that comes into my life.
• 34:10
  Carmen Lezeth: And and you feel okay about that?
• 34:13
  Dana Miranda: I do.
• 34:13
  Dana Miranda: Yeah.
• 34:14
  Dana Miranda: I'm nervous and it's not, you know, it's not something I advise necessarily because everyone has to decide what level of risk they're willing to take.
• 34:22
  Dana Miranda: And the level of risk that I'm accepting is that at some point I won't be able to work to earn money.
• 34:28
  Dana Miranda: Um, there's, you know, I because of the industry that I am in, that I'm a writer for a living, um, I have a better chance of being able to continue to work into old age than if I worked in construction, like my dad does, right?
• 34:42
  Dana Miranda: Like your body's just gonna break down eventually.
• 34:45
  Dana Miranda: Um, but at any point, that could be taken away from me too.
• 34:48
  Dana Miranda: So I do understand that I have that risk.
• 34:51
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, if it makes you feel any better, I have the same risk too.
• 34:54
  Carmen Lezeth: And my whole game plan is I have six godchildren and they better take care of my ass.
• 34:58
  Carmen Lezeth: That's all I'm saying.
• 34:59
  Carmen Lezeth: That's my game plan.
• 35:00
  Dana Miranda: My my sister has five children.
• 35:02
  Dana Miranda: I'm sorry, four children.
• 35:04
  Dana Miranda: And I think that's more than she and her husband will need in old age.
• 35:07
  Dana Miranda: So I'm gonna go.
• 35:09
  Dana Miranda: I can borrow a little bit of that.
• 35:11
  Dana Miranda: Um, a little bit of that.
• 35:14
  Carmen Lezeth: Back of my head.
• 35:15
  Dana Miranda: Like I can't.
• 35:15
  Dana Miranda: I'm also hoping for policy change that is better, you know, so our country is better at taking care of people by the time.
• 35:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, I mean, I think that and that's a great point, right?
• 35:23
  Carmen Lezeth: Is if we had the ability to understand that our vote matters and if we started changing the way in which we think about older people, people wouldn't fear getting older because they don't know where they're gonna end up.
• 35:35
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 35:36
  Carmen Lezeth: You know, because they don't have enough.
• 35:37
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, it's a sad state.
• 35:39
  Carmen Lezeth: Um let me see.
• 35:40
  Carmen Lezeth: What's the first thing you do when you feel financially stressed?
• 35:44
  Carmen Lezeth: I or are you beyond that now?
• 35:48
  Carmen Lezeth: What's that?
• 35:49
  Carmen Lezeth: Or are you beyond that now?
• 35:51
  Dana Miranda: Oh no, not at all.
• 35:52
  Dana Miranda: Absolutely.
• 35:53
  Dana Miranda: I I hear that from a lot of like financial writers and therapists and and planners and things like that, but no, we all experience financial stress.
• 36:02
  Dana Miranda: Um, and I, you know, I work as a writer.
• 36:03
  Dana Miranda: I got laid off last fall, so I absolutely do.
• 36:06
  Dana Miranda: Um, often my response, um, like thinking about dealing with my layoff and thinking about that is I tend to spend money more when I have financial stress than when I don't.
• 36:20
  Dana Miranda: Um, and so I'm that's something I should dig into like psychologically and see where that comes from.
• 36:26
  Dana Miranda: But I do remember years ago, um, I was working as a copywriter for Marie Forlio.
• 36:33
  Dana Miranda: And we took, and um, so a lot of what I was writing, not a lot of it, some of what I was writing was about the idea of like manifesting and and that kind of thing, uh, law of attraction, that kind of thing, which is not something that I like uh that I subscribe to whole cloth or anything like that.
• 36:48
  Dana Miranda: But I do remember there being this idea of um giving money away, sending money out or whatever, right?
• 36:58
  Dana Miranda: If be generous is sort of a way to convince yourself of abundance, kind of like knowing that the money will come back to you.
• 37:05
  Dana Miranda: Um, so I think that I take that.
• 37:07
  Dana Miranda: Um I think I take that approach a little bit.
• 37:10
  Dana Miranda: And also I'm stressed, and buying things is like a short-term salve.
• 37:16
  Dana Miranda: So there's also just that of just stress.
• 37:18
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't think you're I I mean, I think that's kind of normal.
• 37:21
  Carmen Lezeth: I tend to like so this is my thing.
• 37:24
  Carmen Lezeth: Like when I don't have any money, I tend to give more money to like people I see.
• 37:29
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I don't know, I don't know if I necessarily buy things.
• 37:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, but like you said, invest in things.
• 37:35
  Carmen Lezeth: Like all of a sudden I'm giving a $10 to a homeless person when I know, but to me, I'm like $10 isn't gonna fix the problem.
• 37:44
  Carmen Lezeth: $10 isn't gonna make me find how I'm gonna pay my rent.
• 37:47
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 37:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I think that's what it is.
• 37:50
  Dana Miranda: Yeah.
• 37:50
  Dana Miranda: So I think like, well, I'll go out to eat, and this $50 is like wasn't gonna make the difference.
• 37:55
  Dana Miranda: I need a job, so who cares?
• 37:57
  Dana Miranda: Right.
• 37:57
  Dana Miranda: So yeah, I think that's um, and I it wasn't like that in the past, but I went like you, like you explained, you know, like I had very little money, I made more money, I've made less money, and so I've gone up and down.
• 38:08
  Dana Miranda: And so having been in a situation of making enough money to be really comfortable and understanding those dynamics, I think has been helpful with that, of knowing like actually this little bit of money is not going to make the difference for me.
• 38:22
  Dana Miranda: I'm gonna have dinner tonight so that I'm happy, so that I have the energy tomorrow to look for a job.
• 38:28
  Carmen Lezeth: But here's the here's the trick though, because I I don't think this is it took me a long time to do this.
• 38:32
  Carmen Lezeth: You got to be able to do it without the guilt.
• 38:34
  Carmen Lezeth: You can't feel guilty about it because then you're totally defeating the purpose of enjoying that moment of sharing.
• 38:43
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I, you know, I always tell my friends, if you need anything, just call me.
• 38:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Like whether I have the money or not, I will find somebody who does.
• 38:50
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 38:50
  Carmen Lezeth: Because I I just believe in that.
• 38:52
  Carmen Lezeth: Like there are people who can help other people.
• 38:54
  Carmen Lezeth: And if we're in an emergency situation, I don't want somebody to be like, I can't ask for help.
• 39:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, that's why my mom died.
• 39:02
  Carmen Lezeth: I always say that.
• 39:03
  Carmen Lezeth: My mom died because she didn't ask for help.
• 39:05
  Carmen Lezeth: She was way too young and just had a normal thing.
• 39:07
  Carmen Lezeth: She had asthma.
• 39:08
  Carmen Lezeth: And it's like, but she didn't want to, you know, because there was all the stigma with welfare or whatever and blah, blah, blah.
• 39:13
  Carmen Lezeth: And so that's how I see it as a little kid, right?
• 39:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Still.
• 39:16
  Carmen Lezeth: And that's why I'm the way I am.
• 39:17
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm like, if one of my friends needs something, just call me, whether I have the money or not, I will call on some people who owe me a favor and we will figure it out.
• 39:25
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, but it is that kind of thing.
• 39:27
  Carmen Lezeth: You can't have guilt because you decided to go out to dinner and enjoy whatever with your family or by yourself or whatever it is, or you've got a massage, like, because then that defeats the purpose.
• 39:38
  Dana Miranda: Absolutely.
• 39:39
  Dana Miranda: Yeah.
• 39:40
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:41
  Dana Miranda: Let go of that shame.
• 39:42
  Dana Miranda: Think about the bigger things, the bigger rocks, right?
• 39:46
  Dana Miranda: Um, and and exert your influence over those as much as you can, but don't sweat the small stuff.
• 39:54
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 39:56
  Dana Miranda: I think that's true with money.
• 39:57
  Dana Miranda: Don't sweat the small stuff.
• 39:58
  Carmen Lezeth: I think it's true too.
• 39:59
  Carmen Lezeth: I will say this.
• 39:59
  Carmen Lezeth: There is someone who is a big-time CNBC uh Wall Street person who I know.
• 40:07
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, I'm not gonna say his name, he's not anyone I ever worked with, but I I met him when it was back in Twitter days and we had lunch together, and he was gonna invest in my book and all this bullshit, whatever.
• 40:18
  Carmen Lezeth: It was all bullshit.
• 40:19
  Carmen Lezeth: But, anyways, he did say something to me that stuck with me forever, forever.
• 40:24
  Carmen Lezeth: Because I was saying to him, God, you have so much money.
• 40:26
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, what is that like?
• 40:28
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, did you always have money and whatever?
• 40:29
  Carmen Lezeth: And I was all like, teach me how to be an entrepreneur.
• 40:33
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, I love that.
• 40:34
  Carmen Lezeth: Something to me that stuck forever.
• 40:36
  Carmen Lezeth: And he said, Carmen, you know what?
• 40:39
  Carmen Lezeth: You will always be able to make money, but I will never be able to have the kinds of friends and connections that you have.
• 40:46
  Carmen Lezeth: Never.
• 40:47
  Carmen Lezeth: You like, and I thought about that.
• 40:49
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I thought about the importance and the way he said that, that our connections and who we are to each other is so much more important.
• 40:59
  Carmen Lezeth: And he spent so much time making money that he, you know, divorced, doesn't talk to his children, whatever.
• 41:05
  Carmen Lezeth: And I'm looking, I'm not trying to say it's either or.
• 41:08
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm just saying I will never forget that.
• 41:11
  Carmen Lezeth: And I think that's part of it too, is I am gonna go have that dinner, even though I lost my job, and I'm not gonna feel bad about it because I know I can always make money somehow.
• 41:20
  Carmen Lezeth: Money is not the defining issue of who Carmen is.
• 41:24
  Dana Miranda: Right.
• 41:25
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 41:25
  Dana Miranda: And that's that's a belief that you have to cultivate because it's very scary.
• 41:30
  Dana Miranda: And I've had those moments too over the last few months as I've been looking for a job of feeling like I'm may never be able to make money again, right?
• 41:39
  Dana Miranda: The industry has changed too much, the world has changed too much, I'm not as attractive on the market as I thought I would be.
• 41:45
  Dana Miranda: Like I've had all of those thoughts.
• 41:47
  Dana Miranda: And um, you know, and you have to regularly bring yourself back around to it.
• 41:52
  Dana Miranda: And I think it's that is where it's helpful for me to yeah.
• 41:56
  Carmen Lezeth: You need to stop doing that.
• 41:57
  Carmen Lezeth: You need to stop talking to yourself that way.
• 41:59
  Carmen Lezeth: You know that, right?
• 41:59
  Dana Miranda: I mean, not to make this session now, but here's what I'm gonna jump to.
• 42:02
  Dana Miranda: Well, thank you for the no, it's good to hear that point blank.
• 42:04
  Dana Miranda: Like, obviously, of course I know that's true.
• 42:06
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, yeah, but we all do it.
• 42:08
  Carmen Lezeth: Even a successful writer who has a great book.
• 42:12
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, what's your website?
• 42:13
  Carmen Lezeth: I forgot.
• 42:14
  Dana Miranda: Um, if you want to learn more about the book, it's you don't needabudget.com.
• 42:18
  Dana Miranda: And then my newsletter is at healthyrich.co.
• 42:20
  Dana Miranda: On Substack.
• 42:22
  Carmen Lezeth: Yep.
• 42:22
  Carmen Lezeth: Oh, no, no, that's the website.
• 42:24
  Carmen Lezeth: But the the that URL goes to the Substack.
• 42:28
  Dana Miranda: It goes Healthy Rich on Substack.
• 42:30
  Carmen Lezeth: Um can you say it again though for the audio?
• 42:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Because I spoke over you.
• 42:34
  Dana Miranda: Yes, it's healthyrich.co, or if you're on Substack, just search for Healthy Rich.
• 42:40
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay.
• 42:40
  Carmen Lezeth: And then the website for you do not need you don't need a budget is you don't needabudget.com.
• 42:46
  Carmen Lezeth: That's right.
• 42:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay, cool.
• 42:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Let me see.
• 42:49
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay, what's a small financial win people should celebrate more often?
• 42:56
  Dana Miranda: A win.
• 42:57
  Dana Miranda: Um, I would say um any moment where you didn't feel stressed about money and and you thought you should have, that's a little weird.
• 43:11
  Dana Miranda: But what's coming to me is this experience when I had been really struggling as a freelancer for years and I got my first staff writer job and I was making a salary for the first time in years.
• 43:22
  Dana Miranda: And the company sent me to a conference um and you know, paid for the hotel and the flight and everything like that.
• 43:28
  Dana Miranda: But the hotel at, you know, they booked it on the company credit card, and then the hotel asked for my card when I um checked in for incidentals or whatever.
• 43:40
  Dana Miranda: And the hotel mistakenly charged my debit card for the room for like five nights or whatever.
• 43:48
  Dana Miranda: And I got back and, you know, talked to the it was a small company, so talked to the CEO about it right away.
• 43:54
  Dana Miranda: And um, and he's like, we'll take care of that.
• 43:56
  Dana Miranda: We, you know, we can reimburse you on your next paycheck.
• 43:59
  Dana Miranda: But then he was like, Can you wait till your next paycheck or do you need us to send you the money right away?
• 44:04
  Dana Miranda: And I said, nope, I can wait till my next paycheck.
• 44:08
  Dana Miranda: And that was an incredible feeling to know, like, yeah, this is my money.
• 44:13
  Dana Miranda: I'm gonna want it back, but I'm not desperate right now.
• 44:16
  Dana Miranda: And that was the first time in years that I was like, no, I need, you know, didn't feel like I absolutely need the $600 back right now.
• 44:25
  Dana Miranda: You know, it didn't take my bank account negative.
• 44:27
  Dana Miranda: I was gonna make it through the week and a half till payday.
• 44:29
  Dana Miranda: So yeah, anytime, and there are smaller instances of that too, right?
• 44:33
  Dana Miranda: Like you go to the ATM and you can take out $20 worth of $500.
• 44:39
  Dana Miranda: When I was in college, I was there was an ATM on campus, you could take out $5 at a time.
• 44:44
  Dana Miranda: And I usually had to go to that one.
• 44:46
  Dana Miranda: So if I could go to the one and take out 20 and cover the fee without overdrafting, that's right, that was a good victory too.
• 44:52
  Dana Miranda: I think that where if you have experienced financial precarity, you know, that those little things are are really important and and to celebrate that because I think sometimes you experience that and you think that's the norm, and then you punish yourself, shame yourself for any time that's not the case.
• 45:11
  Dana Miranda: But it's yeah, I think acknowledge that that you have have challenges and that those moments are really special.
• 45:18
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, I think for me, one of the things I remember is I remember calling one of my best friends because I wanted to buy some sandals, but they were $90.
• 45:27
  Carmen Lezeth: And they were they were sandals, they were just velvety or something.
• 45:31
  Carmen Lezeth: This is years ago when I was working at my big time company job, whatever.
• 45:35
  Carmen Lezeth: And I was like, this just feels wrong.
• 45:37
  Carmen Lezeth: And she's like, if you love them, just like she was almost annoyed, just buy them.
• 45:42
  Carmen Lezeth: I was like, okay, like I remember that being like, wow, I really got all um like I would never do that now.
• 45:50
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I've grown, like I understand now.
• 45:52
  Carmen Lezeth: If I want to spend $90 on stupid shoes or whatever, and I haven't, I'm gonna buy them, you know what I mean?
• 45:57
  Carmen Lezeth: But I just remember that being like a win.
• 45:59
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I can actually call someone and tell them I'm gonna buy sandals that are like nine dollars, uh $90.
• 46:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:06
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, you have those moments too.
• 46:07
  Dana Miranda: And you you have to cherish that, you have to understand it.
• 46:10
  Dana Miranda: Ales to remind you of the privilege that you've gained too.
• 46:16
  Dana Miranda: So you you know, you never forget what it was like to live on $12,000 a year or whatever.
• 46:22
  Carmen Lezeth: So you can always survive that if you have to.
• 46:26
  Dana Miranda: They do.
• 46:27
  Dana Miranda: Yeah, absolutely.
• 46:29
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't think you or I would ever forget though.
• 46:33
  Dana Miranda: I haven't, I don't think, you know, and and I continue to keep um my lifestyle has not gotten a lot more lavish as I've made more money.
• 46:41
  Dana Miranda: It's usually traveling more, so I don't have these like ongoing additional costs.
• 46:46
  Dana Miranda: It's very easy to downsize my life when I make less money, or if I, you know, get laid off or something like that happens.
• 46:54
  Carmen Lezeth: I want us to end on something joyful.
• 46:57
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what?
• 46:58
  Dana Miranda: Okay, yeah.
• 46:59
  Carmen Lezeth: I'll just put it that way.
• 47:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, what do you see in the future in 2026 that might be hopeful, joyful, something to look forward to?
• 47:10
  Dana Miranda: Yeah.
• 47:10
  Dana Miranda: Um, well, since yeah, we started with politics, I think that the election this year is something to look forward to because it's an opportunity for us to all get out and give a very clear rebuke to the Trump administration and to the Republicans who've been enabling him.
• 47:26
  Dana Miranda: I think that's gonna be really important.
• 47:28
  Dana Miranda: Um, and I'm looking forward to that victory.
• 47:31
  Dana Miranda: And on top of that, you know, we had Mom Donnie in New York City.
• 47:35
  Dana Miranda: I think there's gonna be a lot more socialist and leftist victories around the country, too, on the tail of that.
• 47:41
  Dana Miranda: So that can be very exciting for folks, for people who are looking for working class policy.
• 47:46
  Dana Miranda: Um, so that's exciting.
• 47:48
  Dana Miranda: Financially, I think I think people probably have challenges ahead.
• 47:54
  Dana Miranda: Like I said, that it's it's gonna be kind of rough water.
• 47:57
  Dana Miranda: So what we can look for are the moments of joy where we allow ourselves to enjoy our lives in spite of the ways that our politicians and corporations are trying to sort of keep us down and keep us small, that we can be big and joyful in spite of that.
• 48:19
  Carmen Lezeth: I think that's fair enough.
• 48:21
  Carmen Lezeth: I just want to say one last thing though.
• 48:23
  Carmen Lezeth: I think, you know, saying socialist leftist or whatever is bad because we should all be for working class.
• 48:33
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I think that's where the whole mess is like people have taken words and have put something upon them that isn't true, you know.
• 48:44
  Dana Miranda: Yes, yeah, yeah, those are dirty words for some people, but it is true, working class politicians and people who politicians who work for working class people, regardless of the people.
• 48:53
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, we should want to take anyways, but that maybe that's a whole other conversation.
• 48:58
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't know, but I get annoyed by that because if you say socialist, people get all upset and it's like you don't even know what the word means.
• 49:05
  Dana Miranda: Not you, I mean people absolutely that is true, and and and that's yeah, that's by design too.
• 49:12
  Dana Miranda: So absolutely politicians who work for the people.
• 49:16
  Dana Miranda: That's what we're doing.
• 49:17
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, work for the people, and we make sure we vote.
• 49:19
  Carmen Lezeth: I feel like what we got out of this is you need to vote.
• 49:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Somehow this became very political.
• 49:23
  Carmen Lezeth: Spend money when you want and get out and vote.
• 49:27
  Carmen Lezeth: And also buy this book.
• 49:29
  Carmen Lezeth: You don't need a budget by Dana Miranda, Miranda.
• 49:33
  Carmen Lezeth: Is your last name Latino?
• 49:36
  Dana Miranda: It's not.
• 49:37
  Dana Miranda: I can I can give you the history if you want.
• 49:39
  Dana Miranda: If you look, I'm kind of sad.
• 49:41
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm like, it's not.
• 49:42
  Carmen Lezeth: I thought we were like, I know I'm also I'm disappointed too.
• 49:45
  Dana Miranda: I uh so it was my middle name.
• 49:47
  Dana Miranda: Um, and then I got married and I got divorced, and I was keeping my divorce name for a while, didn't want to go back to my maiden name, and so I took Miranda as my as my middle name, but it was originally uh my great-grandmother's middle name, and it was German.
• 50:03
  Dana Miranda: So it's got German roots, but yeah, I visit Puerto Rico and people get very disappointed when they look at my name and then look at my Midwest white face.
• 50:14
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, you know, is I don't know anything about my father at all, right?
• 50:18
  Carmen Lezeth: It's one of the things I'll never know.
• 50:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, but the interesting part about it is the the rumors when I was growing up was that his last name was Miranda.
• 50:28
  unknown: Oh.
• 50:28
  Carmen Lezeth: Isn't that funny?
• 50:29
  Carmen Lezeth: So it's kind of interesting.
• 50:30
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, it's just a weird, you know, it's Smith for all I know.
• 50:33
  Carmen Lezeth: I have no idea.
• 50:34
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't want people coming out to me telling me they're my father.
• 50:37
  Carmen Lezeth: So thanks.
• 50:37
  Dana Miranda: But um spiritually, I I claim that anyone whose name is Miranda is my cousin.
• 50:43
  Dana Miranda: So I feel a connection to Louis Manuel Miranda now and and now you.
• 50:47
  unknown: I'm so excited.
• 50:48
  Dana Miranda: Okay, cool.
• 50:49
  Dana Miranda: It was mythical anyway, so let's take it.
• 50:52
  Carmen Lezeth: Um well, I'm so glad you were here.
• 50:53
  Carmen Lezeth: I know you'll come back.
• 50:54
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm not even gonna ask you to come back.
• 50:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, and I know that Rick and Cynthia would love to see you, so maybe you can love to see you on Friday Night Live at some point.
• 51:02
  Carmen Lezeth: But thank you so much for being here, Dana.
• 51:04
  Carmen Lezeth: I appreciate you.
• 51:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, I appreciate you a lot, a lot.
• 51:08
  Carmen Lezeth: So thank you so much for all that you've done for me.
• 51:10
  Carmen Lezeth: And writing-wise when we first met and just giving me confidence really changed my trajectory on who I am as a creative person, too.
• 51:18
  Carmen Lezeth: So thank you so much for that.
• 51:20
  Carmen Lezeth: And and stop sending me money right now.
• 51:23
  Carmen Lezeth: I love you, but stop it.
• 51:26
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, all right, everyone.
• 51:27
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank you so much for hanging out with us.
• 51:29
  Carmen Lezeth: And remember, at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy.
• 51:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank you, everyone.
• 51:34
  Carmen Lezeth: Bye.
• 51:34
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank you.
• 51:36
  Carmen Lezeth: Thanks for stopping by, All About the Joy.
• 51:40
  Carmen Lezeth: Be better and stay beautiful, folks.
• 51:42
  Carmen Lezeth: Have a sweet day.