Latest / The Karen Kenney Show / FINDING THE NEW RIGHT DISTANCE

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FINDING THE NEW RIGHT DISTANCE · The Karen Kenney Show

0:00
Karen Kenney: It's the Karen Kenney show. Hey you guys,
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welcome to the Karen Kenney show. Okay, I'm just gonna give
0:08
it to you straight. Oh, my God, I'm just gonna give it to you
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straight, and I'm gonna give it to you real. So I've been having
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a lot of conversations lately with people about situations in
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their life, about relationships, about communication,
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communication that was given, communication that was received,
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communication that never happened but should have, etc,
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etc, etc. You know, this is just one of the hardest things about
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being human, and that is other humans, right? People be
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peopling. So back in 2020 when I first started this sucker, the
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Karen Kenney show, I did an episode, I think it was episode
0:53
53 and I called it finding the right distance. And this is
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going to be like finding the right distance part too, or
1:01
finding the new right distance or something. I don't know what
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I'm going to call this, but I want to just, and I'm going to
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try to keep this one short. It might not be sweet, though this
1:11
is what I want to say. So there's a time when I used to
1:14
always say, sometimes you just have to love people from a
1:19
distance. And you have probably heard this phrase before, right?
1:23
And it kind of means this idea that sometimes when we're too up
1:28
close and personal with people, and I'm holding up my hands,
1:31
right, and my hands like, maybe there's, like, I don't know, a
1:35
half an inch or so, like, between them, right? My palms
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are facing each other. And sometimes when we're in too
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close of a proximity to people, whether that's physically,
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emotionally, whatever damage is going to be done, because one or
1:50
both of those people do not have interpersonal relationship
1:55
skills, they do not have emotional intelligence, they do
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not have a spiritual toolkit. They do not have a self
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development toolbox. They were never taught whatever the excuse
2:05
is, whatever the reason is, and you've heard me say it 1000
2:10
times, that trauma explains a lot of things, but it doesn't
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excuse them all. There comes a time in our life when each of us
2:18
must be responsible for the way that we are speaking, the way
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that we are talking to ourselves and each other, the way that we
2:26
are acting, the way that we are showing up or not showing up,
2:28
the choices we're making, what we're thinking, saying, doing,
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believing, our behaviors, etc. There comes a point where we can
2:37
look at our lives and we can say, well, I'm only like this
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because they did x, y and z, because my parents were like
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this. Or now, I'm not talking about systemic systems of racism
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or misogyny or, you know, Semitism or abuse. I'm not
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talking about that. I'm just saying like, one to one
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interpersonal relationships, whether that's with the sibling,
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whether that's with a parent, whether that's with a sweetie,
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whether that's with a friend, whatever it is, there will often
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come a time in the relationship when one of the people or both
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have to really look at, are we better together or apart? Are we
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better? Do we bring out the best in each other at this distance?
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And again, I'm holding my hands not like two inches apart or
3:26
this distance, and I've got them pretty far away from each other,
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like a foot and a half. Okay, so nobody can really determine for
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you what the right distance is. And what I find so fascinating
3:40
these days is that there's a whole generation, a younger
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generation of, I say kids, right? They're not really kids,
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like people in their 30s, maybe sometimes even up into that.
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Maybe it's even in their 20s, 30s, early 40s, whatever, who
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are deciding to go what they call no contact, like no
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contact, with their families and people are just horrified by
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this. The older generations are like, oh, you know, family,
4:06
blood is sicker than water,
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and I'm able to kind of see it from both points of view. I
4:13
think there are times when a conversation could be had and
4:17
maybe healing could happen. It's not for me to say when somebody
4:21
should or shouldn't apologize, or should or shouldn't forgive
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or whatever. That's an individual case by case basis,
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and it's a very personal decision, and people have to
4:31
decide for themselves. But I can see why sometimes there is an
4:35
argument to at least attempt to try and have a conversation and
4:39
have reconciliation and allow the possibility that healing can
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happen, but there are just going to be other times people, oh my
4:47
god, where other humans do not have the capacity to own their
4:52
shit. They do not have the capacity to see from a different
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perspective, to see how somebody else might be feeling. Feeling.
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And one of the things that I hear a lot from the younger
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generations is that when I try to talk to my parents or my
5:08
whoever right about what what my childhood felt like, or what I
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felt like or what my experience was, they defend, they refuse.
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They make excuses. They just say, you know, and this is, I
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hear this a lot about, like, Gen X kids, which is me, I'm a Gen X
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kid, right? Is that because we were the original latch key
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kids, right? We were the original ones left home alone
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and highly unsupervised and wildly feral, and we had to
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figure everything out for ourselves, etc, etc, etc. A lot
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of times, our story is we had it way worse than you. You don't
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know what it's like. So a kid will come to a parent and start
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to say, this is how I felt, this is what it was like to be your
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kid. This is what the environment was like at home.
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These are what my feelings were, or how I felt. And the parent
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immediately starts going into storytelling and making excuses
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and saying, Well, you don't know how hot I had it, and you don't
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know what I was trying to do, and I poured my blood, sweat and
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tears and trying to make a home for you, and I didn't even have
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one. Blah, blah. And what's missing there is a compassionate
6:16
witness and an unshaming Witness and a loving witness to just
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acknowledge what the kid is feeling. And there are going to
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be times why I'm saying all this is there are going to be times
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when maybe no contact is not only going to be what they
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choose, but for some people, it might be the safest and best
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result, because it feels like you're beating your head against
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a wall. Because no matter what you say, your feelings don't get
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acknowledged. Your feelings don't get recognized. You are
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not seen, you are not heard, and what you feel doesn't matter.
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And in fact, you're just going to keep getting more excuses,
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and I keep going back to that thing, right? Trauma can explain
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a lot of things. Yes, you went through these things. Yes, these
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things happen. And yes, that was really hard, meaning the Gen X
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kid, yeah, Gen X is, we had it kind of rough, and it doesn't
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excuse us from what we are not doing now as adults or as
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parents or whatever, right? And so when I remember, when I'll
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just kind of point back to this, when I first I used to say, you
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could, you can love, you should. Sometimes you need to love
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people from a distance, because that's what's safest, right? Why
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keep putting yourself in an environment or in a relationship
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with another person where they don't respect you and they have
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nothing but contempt for you and they're not kind to you, and why
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do you think I've been told this many times in my life, right?
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What did you expect you knew who you were dealing with, right?
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And that's something slightly different about me because, and
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I'll get into that in a minute, but here's my whole point. So I
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used to say, sometimes you need to love people from a distance.
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And then my friend Marianne C once said,
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sometimes it's about finding the right distance. It's not just
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loving them from a distance, it's about finding that right
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distance, right whether again and I'm bringing my hands
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together and in twining my fingers, sometimes that's the
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right distance. You're really close, you're really intimate,
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you're really vulnerable with each other. It's a balanced
8:12
relationship. It's a healthy relationship. It feels really
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good. And whether that's you know, a sweetie, a lover, a
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friend, a sibling, family member, whatever, sometimes the
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right distances, you guys are all up in each other's business
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in the best way, right? It's a good thing. Sometimes the best
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distance is there's a little gap between you, right? And maybe
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you just talk on the phone on Sunday nights or whatever it is,
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and then the distance can go out to the to like XFINITY, right,
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which is where you never talk again. You're just out of each
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other's life, or until one of you finally dies, or whatever
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the situation is, and sometimes that distance will be
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negotiable. Sometimes you'll move closer towards one another.
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Sometimes you have to move farther apart. And this can be
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very prevalent when, let's say one of you is, you know, has
8:58
substance abuse disorder, or one of you is an alcoholic, or one
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of you is, you know, you know, stealing money from people to,
9:05
like, get their next fix, or somebody like, whatever, they're
9:08
not safe to be around. So they steal from you. They harm you.
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You're totally codependent together. Whatever it is,
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sometimes it's going to fluctuate, and sometimes those
9:17
distances will be, oh, you know, you got your act together.
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You're making amends, you're trying to get your life
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together. Great. We're really close. And then if somebody
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like, you know, does something and it betrays a trust, or
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breaks a friendship, or whatever happens, you know, whatever lie,
9:31
steals, whatever harms you, right, then that distance might
9:34
go wide again. And I think it's good that we stay flexible. I
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think it's good for us to not just like draw lines in the sand
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and be wicked rigid. But there might be times when that's what
9:44
the appropriate response is, is that you cross a line in a
9:47
boundary with me or my kids or something that I just don't feel
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safe around you. I don't think this is healthy or whatever it
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is. And again, we may not always agree with other people's
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distances. We might not always see it from their perspective.
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Or think it's the right response, especially if you feel
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like you're the one that's being sent to Siberia to never be
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heard from again or whatever. But most people, you know, this
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is the thing. I was doing a team leadership thing today, and I
10:15
was I talked, I talked to a team of people, and I was talking
10:20
about self leadership and communication, and one of the
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ways that, or the reasons why I see so many people having to
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choose new distances, is because there is a breakdown in
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communication. Either they don't know how to say what they say,
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so they just suck it up and stuff it down, and the
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relationship kind of implodes, or just slowly fades away or
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drifts off into the sunset and everybody just lets it go away.
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Or sometimes, you know, the communication style is
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combative, and somebody gets their feelings hurt and they're
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like, fuck you. I'm done. I'm not dealing with this anymore.
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Sometimes they try to speak and communicate their needs or what
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they're feeling, and they are met with defensiveness and they
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don't feel heard. I mean, there's 1000 ways, but a lot of
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times this whole, you know, finding the right distance,
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the reason why people are looking for new distances in the
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first place is because there's been some kind of communication
11:12
breakdown, and they just believe sometimes that there is no point
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in communicating what they feel and what they think, because you
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are not going to be able to handle it or respond, or you're
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going to react in a particular way, or you're just going to
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throw it back in their face, right? So learning how to
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communicate well, you know, I think I recently did a podcast
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about this is so so, so important. But this little
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episode, this quick little episode, I just wanted to come
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back to it, because there's is some hope here. When you're
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trying to navigate a new distance. I mean, you also get
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to determine whether or not you want to communicate to that
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other person that you're setting a new boundary. You're setting
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some new distance between you. Sometimes you'll get the hit
11:52
hint, but other times, I've seen people come to me sad and upset
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and they say, I don't know what I've done, but my this person
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who I thought was my best friend has just disappeared from my
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life. They won't answer my texts. They won't answer my
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phone calls. I don't know what I did, and sometimes they just
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feel like, you know, they won't talk to me. And sometimes, look,
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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, that a person doesn't
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just up and, you know, just decide to break things off and
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try to start a new life or a new thing, it does happen. But from
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the other point of view, I often hear that people like I tried to
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tell you in seven ways till Sunday, and you just could not
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hear it, and you kept crossing my boundary, or you kept doing
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the same thing that I told you that I didn't like, etc, etc. So
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if these things are kind of happening in your life, meaning
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you're on the receiving end of somebody creating a new a new
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distance from you. You know, it's helpful to, kind of like,
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take a little moral inventory, as they say in in recovery
12:51
programs, right? Take a fearless moral inventory and find out,
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you know, and just go through, I would say, don't, you don't have
12:58
to obsess about it. But just go back and say, Hey, was there any
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time that I was unkind? Was there any time that I was not a
13:04
good friend? Was it was there something I could have said or
13:06
done or that I did, or did they ever say to me that they were
13:09
upset with me? Sometimes you're going to have no idea why it's
13:13
happening. Other times you might have a sneaking suspicion.
13:15
Sometimes you might be afraid. You're like, oh shit, I know
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what I did. And at that point, you get to decide if you want to
13:23
apologize or say, Hey, I feel like you've been really distant
13:26
lately. Is there something that I did or that I said? Do you
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want to talk about it?
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But sometimes, look the fast, the best and fastest thing you
13:35
can do is get out of dodge and just put a lot of distance
13:37
between you and them, because whether and that's whether to do
13:41
with, you know, and I don't, I don't use the word, you know,
13:45
mental illness, in a way of like, Oh, if somebody has mental
13:48
illness, you push them aside. But there are times when people
13:52
are in their in their patterns of self destruction, or in their
13:57
patterns of being destructive towards other people, or there's
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something going on where you're like, This is not a good time to
14:03
be, and it doesn't I'm not talking like, abandon your
14:05
people when they're going through a tough time. I'm just
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saying, and some of you, I know, you know what I'm talking about,
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there are just times when you have to say, I'm not going to
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sit around and, like, watch this. I don't want to be a part
14:15
of this. I've been here done that. It's too painful, it's too
14:18
much. And when you're ready to, like, get it together and have a
14:21
real conversation, then we can talk. So there will be times
14:24
when people will just completely cast you out of their hat.
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That's not what I'm saying, that you should or shouldn't do. I
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always say, Leave room. Leave room to reconcile if that's what
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you desire. And that's one of the things when you're setting
14:37
the right distance, is you have to ask yourself, you know, what
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is going to be the consequence of me choosing this distance,
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and am I okay with it? And am I just choosing this for now, or
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am I open to reconciling? Am I open to a conversation where we
14:50
both can try and hear each other so that we may get closer
14:55
together again? And one of the great things about it's not
14:59
always bad. You know, when somebody is setting new
15:01
distances with each other, it's not always bad, because
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sometimes, from a distance, you can get a little bit more
15:08
perspective. After you licked your wounds a little bit, or
15:11
your ego wasn't so hurt anymore, or whatever the thing is, you
15:14
can start to get a little bit different perspective and say,
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Yeah, you know what, I need to own that pot that was on me, or,
15:20
you know what? Sometimes you get more clarity about like, you
15:23
know what? I don't want this to work out. I have no interest in
15:26
continuing this friendship or this relationship or whatever.
15:30
So that distance can really give us clarity, and it can also help
15:34
us to make that decision from a calm place, not when we're
15:37
triggered, not when we're upset. And we can make it from a
15:39
compassionate place, and after we've done some, you know, self
15:43
inquiry with a curiosity and stuff, we can say, okay, yeah,
15:47
this is where I've landed. This is how I feel. And now I just
15:50
have to have the courage to communicate it or not. Some
15:53
people don't feel the need to do it, and I know that I'm not
15:56
really giving any definitive answers today. I'm just wanting
15:58
to talk about this, because it's coming up again and again and
16:01
again and again, with people about relationships falling
16:04
apart, friendships falling apart, you know, like within
16:08
family systems, like parents and children no longer talking
16:11
anymore. Or, you know, this one's like, they won't let me
16:13
see my grandbabies or whatever. Like we see it all over the
16:16
place and and even in my own life, you know, there are times
16:19
when I'm like, Oh, I just need to create some distance, because
16:21
this is not going to end well. Going to end well, if I don't,
16:23
and a lot of times it seems like maybe you're creating distance
16:27
for your own mental sanity. And sometimes I'm like, No, trust
16:31
me, I'm saving them for myself. Because what I would be, what I
16:34
would say to them right now, if I just didn't care about being
16:38
compassionate or loving, I don't think that we would, we would
16:40
rebound from the words that would come out of my mouth. You
16:43
know what I mean, Vicki with 2k from Lawrence, when she wants to
16:45
grab the mic, it is best that I kind of, I always say that I
16:48
just kind of moon walk out of the room a little bit and let
16:50
there be a little bit of space. Because I, you know, if I really
16:55
wanted to, it's not that hard for me to be mean. And I really
16:58
try hard not to be mean, and I really try not to give into
17:01
that. That part of me that wants to, you know, wants to just tell
17:05
it like it is very directly. So I always say honesty without
17:09
compassion is brutality, and I really don't feel like being
17:12
brutal towards people. But sometimes me and my nervous
17:14
system need a break from fucking nonsense. You know what I'm
17:17
saying. So I don't know if this is helpful to you. I don't
17:20
imagine that every single thing that comes out of my mouth is
17:23
helpful all the time, but it is my hope. It is my hope that
17:26
something that I share, you recognize yourself in it, or it
17:30
resonates, or you can relate to it, and that somehow you could
17:32
maybe use it and apply it in a way that makes your life better
17:36
and helps to spread a little bit more love. And it might seem
17:39
like how is finding the distance away from people, you know,
17:43
helping us to find more love? And I said, you know, sometimes,
17:46
you know all those things like oil and water and magnets repel
17:49
and blah, blah, sometimes, even if your blood, even if you're a
17:53
blood relative, it doesn't mean you're supposed to be friends
17:55
your whole life. There are going to be times when morals, you
17:59
know, your morals and your ethics and your beliefs, and you
18:03
know whether it's political or whether it's just, you know, you
18:07
don't agree on on certain things, certain behaviors,
18:09
things that happen because people, people be peopling, and
18:12
people hurt each other and betray each other all the time,
18:15
and sometimes you just need to step back or step away for good.
18:19
So I'm not here to tell you what your distances should be. I'm
18:22
just here to support you in saying, like, I get it. I get it
18:25
how sometimes you need to find that space.
18:28
And I would just encourage you, though, to do it mindfully, to
18:32
not do it reactionally. Like, do it. Like, make your choices when
18:36
you and your nervous system have come back to a more calm and
18:39
clear space, so that you know why you're choosing it, and
18:42
you're not just like freaking out and having a hissy fit or a
18:45
temper tantrum or a tizzy or whatever, a conniption fit, as
18:47
we would say when we were kids, right? Just know that I'm making
18:50
this decision with a clear mind. And you know, and again, you get
18:54
to decide, maybe there's room for reparations. Maybe this is
18:57
going to wash out on the other side after a little bit of time,
19:00
and sometimes it's just not going to happen, because no
19:03
matter how hard you try, it just feels like you are pushing
19:06
something uphill that you are dragging so my friend KT and I
19:09
talk about, it's like dragging dead carrots behind you on a
19:11
dirty string. It's just like, I don't want to do this anymore.
19:14
This this relationship is just, I'm just dragging it behind me,
19:16
and it is so not attractive or fun or soothing, and it's
19:20
exhausting and boring, and I'm over it. I'm over just banging
19:23
my head against the wall, you know what I mean? So hopefully
19:27
look, and I think we feel that way sometimes, just look at our
19:30
government. Sometimes we feel that way, right like, I don't
19:32
want to what is happening, like what is happening right now. So,
19:37
yeah, just, I think I'm just sharing this from my heart to
19:39
yours, so that you don't feel alone out there if you're
19:42
struggling trying to make sense of some things, and you're just
19:44
feeling like, you know, I told you guys I met, I met a guy the
19:47
other day, and I said, Well, what are you gonna do when you
19:49
retire? And he's like, move to the woods away from people and
19:52
grow my hair long? And I thought it was really funny. I'm like,
19:55
dude, dude. I know the feeling right? It's like, Cal gone, as
19:58
we used to say when we were kids. Cal. Go and take me away.
20:01
But here's the other thing, people, people can be so
20:04
beautiful and so inspiring and so wonderful and so kind and
20:08
compassionate, and they can also be infuriating and brutal and
20:13
vicious and ridiculous and flabbergasting and whatever. And
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we are all often those things to each other, all of us. Nobody is
20:22
exempt. I'm sure there are plenty of people that had to
20:24
make some distance from me in my lifetime, and plenty of people
20:28
I've had to, you
20:29
know, create new distance from also, so none of us, none of
20:32
this, get and none of us get out of this squeaky clean, you know
20:35
what I mean, but for your own well being and your own mental
20:38
health. But just Also, know, make sure that, because it can
20:42
be really easy too, for your friends to just say things like,
20:46
you should cut them off. You should tell them this. You
20:48
should that wasn't nice. Blah, blah, look, you have to, at some
20:52
point, be an adult and trust your own in a teacher and your
20:55
own instincts, your own intuition. Yes, you can get the
20:58
guidance and support of people who love you and also question
21:02
like, why am I doing this? Am I withholding and am I doing this
21:05
to be hurtful? Do I have an agenda, or is this what I feel
21:10
like right now, with the information that I have, this is
21:12
the best choice for me and my kids, or me and myself, or me
21:16
and my family or whatever, that we just create a little distance
21:19
here so you're not alone in this. You guys. Humaning is
21:22
fucking hard, and stuff will be happening all the time, and
21:26
you're not alone. And I see you and I hear you and I feel you,
21:30
and I get you, I understand to the best of my capacity that I
21:33
can and sometimes it's not always comfortable making these
21:37
choices. Sometimes we do it and it doesn't feel great, and we
21:41
feel guilty, and you might feel a little like, Oh, I feel like
21:44
I'm judgy. This feels judgy and whatever, and they're not going
21:47
to understand and they're not going to like it. And I'm like,
21:50
Look, sometimes you can communicate your choice to them,
21:53
and sometimes you can say, this is why I'm setting this
21:55
boundary. This is what I'm doing. But sometimes people
21:57
can't hear it. Sometimes people will just, you know, try to drag
22:01
you into more drama and conversations that you don't
22:04
want to have. But sometimes you do deserve you do owe people an
22:07
explanation, and if they're able to hear it and you're able to
22:11
talk to each other like loving and compassionate adults, it
22:15
might be fruitful. You might find out some things and
22:17
reconcile, and that'll be great. And sometimes it is just not
22:21
going to happen. And like I said, I'm holding my hands up
22:23
again, right right now. They're like, about four inches apart.
22:26
Sometimes that's the right distance. And what I mean by
22:28
that is that might stand for, we see each other once a month at
22:32
Ma's house for Sunday dinner, right? It might go out a little
22:36
bit wider, and it's like, yeah, we see each other at the family
22:38
holidays. It might go out a little bit wider. It's like,
22:41
yeah, we send each other a Christmas card, right? I mean,
22:44
whatever it is, whatever the distance is, right? And
22:48
sometimes you negotiate those distances, and sometimes one of
22:51
you just just does it and you talk about it, and sometimes you
22:55
do it and you don't talk about it, and sometimes you both just
22:58
drift away from each other, and it just kind of fades off into
23:02
the sunset. You know what I'm saying. So I hope this has been
23:05
helpful in some way. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you
23:07
so much for being here and wherever you go. Just do your
23:11
darndest. Just do your real deal. Holyfield best, to leave
23:16
the animals and the other people and yourself and the planet, the
23:20
environment better than how you found it. Wherever you go, may
23:24
you and your love and your energy and your presence and the
23:28
distance that you choose be a blessing. Bye. Hey, thanks so
23:34
much for listening to the show. I really love spending some time
23:38
together. Now, if you dig the show or know someone that could
23:41
benefit from this episode, please share it with them and
23:45
help me to spread the good word and the love. And if you want to
23:48
be in the know about all of my upcoming shenanigans, head on
23:52
over to Karen kenney.com/sign up and join my list. It'll be
23:58
wicked fun to stay in touch. Bye. You.