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Creating an Inspiring CE Experience with Anne McSweeney · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Trauma Theverist podcast. Plus listeners can listen to episodes early
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Speaker 1: and ad free right now. Become a Plus listener by
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Speaker 1: going to Apple Podcasts, searching for the Trauma Theverist podcast
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Speaker 1: and signing up today. Welcome to the Trauma Nevers podcast,
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Speaker 1: a show about the incredible people dedicated to helping those
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Speaker 1: who experienced trauma. My name is got macpherson, and my
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Speaker 1: mission is to raise awareness of trauma and to inspire
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Speaker 1: each of us to help those around us. All right, An,
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Speaker 1: you're ready.
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Speaker 2: I'm ready.
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Speaker 1: All right, here we go. Soy I for three to
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Speaker 1: ed one our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very
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Speaker 1: excited to happ with my guest today and McSweeney and welcome.
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Speaker 1: Thank you.
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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be here. Guys, thanks so much.
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Speaker 1: You're welcome. So And as a licensed clinical social worker
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Speaker 1: and the founder of CEU Creations, a premier provider of
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Speaker 1: live synchronous training for helping professionals with over two decades
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Speaker 1: of experience and social work and continuing education, and is
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Speaker 1: dedicated to empowering professionals with the tools they need to
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Speaker 1: enhance their practice and support their clients. She's proud to
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Speaker 1: collaborate with ce for Less, a leading platform for accessible
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Speaker 1: text based continuing education, and her passion for advancing the
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Speaker 1: field of mental health drives her commitment to providing accessible,
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Speaker 1: high quality learning experiences that empower practitioners to better serve
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Speaker 1: their clients and communities. All right, awesome man, thanks so
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Speaker 1: much for being here. Before we get going, share with
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Speaker 1: our listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: So thanks. I'm originally from actually New Jersey. I lived
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Speaker 2: in Parsiponia, New Jersey, till I was about nine years old.
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Speaker 2: That being said, I've been down in Georgia. People say
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Speaker 2: I have an accent. I don't think I do. But
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Speaker 2: I've been in Georgia now since I was nine, so
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Speaker 2: Georgia's home. But I have a lot of family in
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Speaker 2: New Jersey, so shout out to all my family in
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Speaker 2: New Jersey.
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Speaker 1: I'm from the East Coast as well, so that's okay.
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Speaker 1: I will tell you I will be able to discern
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Speaker 1: whether you have an accent or not. So very interesting.
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Speaker 1: Like I said before, I love just inspiring to me,
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Speaker 1: you know, to talk with clinicians who kind of branch
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Speaker 1: out and then create something to help other clinicians like yourself.
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Speaker 1: So let's start how first of all, how did you
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Speaker 1: get into this field in the first place? Social work?
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Speaker 2: Sure, so, I've always known I've wanted to be a
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Speaker 2: social worker since it's in my actually in my high
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Speaker 2: school year booking and sometimes they interview people and it's like,
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Speaker 2: what do you want to be? I knew I wanted
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Speaker 2: to be a social worker. So got my undergrad and psychology,
2:44
Speaker 2: went on to get my MSW, and initially for the
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Speaker 2: first eight years or so, I did medical social work.
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Speaker 2: So I did home health, hospice, and dialysis social work.
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Speaker 2: So I would say what I would call very in
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Speaker 2: the trench social work in some very underserved areas of Atlanta,
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Speaker 2: working with people as they were dying, working with their patient,
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Speaker 2: my patients and their families and getting them resources. And
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Speaker 2: I learned so much from my patients that I carry
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Speaker 2: with me today. It inspires me really and all I do.
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Speaker 2: So I did that for about eight years and then
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Speaker 2: said way to working with elder law attorneys. And I
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Speaker 2: was actually one of the first social workers in Atlanta
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Speaker 2: to work with an elder law attorney. Not sure if
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Speaker 2: you've ever heard about this, but this is a common
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Speaker 2: trend now. Social workers work with other law attorneys to
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Speaker 2: help with resources to be a community educator, and so
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Speaker 2: I did that about twenty years ago, and as I
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Speaker 2: was working with the elder law attorneys, I was keeping
3:42
Speaker 2: up my own cees. And many of us know the
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Speaker 2: stigma cees have. What do you think of when you
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Speaker 2: hear CES, right, you usually think boring, expensive. Well, I
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Speaker 2: was sitting in a very boring, expensive ce probably now
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Speaker 2: twenty years ago, over twenty years ago, and I was like,
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Speaker 2: there just has to be a better way to do this.
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Speaker 2: And I had a light bulb go off in my
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Speaker 2: head because I was like, well, my attorneys are great
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Speaker 2: speakers that I work with, and they actually speak about
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Speaker 2: things that a lot of these clinicians need to know
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Speaker 2: about on a day to day basis, like long range
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Speaker 2: care planning with senior clients, what to do when someone's dying,
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Speaker 2: and what to do when someone has died, and all
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Speaker 2: these sort of things. And at the time being a
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Speaker 2: community educator for the elderlaw attorneys, I wanted to be
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Speaker 2: in front of social workers, case managers and other mental
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Speaker 2: health professionals. So it started doing CES about twenty years
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Speaker 2: ago now, and people would come up to me and
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Speaker 2: say your ce topics are so good and different, but
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Speaker 2: why are you only doing elder law? And that's how
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Speaker 2: CEU Creations was born. And so it's very mission driven.
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Speaker 2: So we have two main missions. We have a mission
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Speaker 2: of affordability because we know that helping professionals are not
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Speaker 2: millionaires and some of these cees are just exorbitantly priced
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Speaker 2: and these folks can't afford it. So my mission has
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Speaker 2: always been affordability. And the way I do that is
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Speaker 2: I work with sponsors who want to be in front
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Speaker 2: of helping professionals, helps me bring my cost down and
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Speaker 2: it's a win win because also the helping professionals learn
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Speaker 2: about resources they need to know about. And then secondly
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Speaker 2: is hashtag no more boring c's and we know that
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Speaker 2: they have the stigma of being boring. We've done things
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Speaker 2: like musicals, plays, you know, combining those with evidence space practice.
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Speaker 2: But when you focus on emotional aspects of things and
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Speaker 2: really tell people's story or hit to the heart of things,
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Speaker 2: and again we're still bringing in that expert We're still
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Speaker 2: doing the evidence space piece, but people learn I can
5:36
Speaker 2: get people off their phones for a little while and
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Speaker 2: pay attention and they come to our ces and it
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Speaker 2: becomes like a community of support and it's just really
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Speaker 2: really moved me. So before the pandemic, we were mostly
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Speaker 2: in person because of the rules around c's. I don't
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Speaker 2: know how familiar you are, but back in the day
5:55
Speaker 2: before twenty twenty, a lot of cees had to be
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Speaker 2: in person. That change overnight with the pandemic. Now what
6:02
Speaker 2: we're doing a live zoom. A live stream zoom counts
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Speaker 2: as a in person used to count. So when you're
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Speaker 2: live with the presenter and you can interact, that counts
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Speaker 2: across most states now like an in person used to count.
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Speaker 2: So for us, the pandemic opened up kind of the
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Speaker 2: nation for us, and so now we have speakers from
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Speaker 2: across the nation. Our reaches national and I'm happy to
6:27
Speaker 2: announce that late last year. So in December of last year,
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Speaker 2: we were acquired by Level Education Group, which owns CE
6:34
Speaker 2: for Less its parent companies.
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Speaker 1: Sponsor of this podcast yep, yeah, amazing, sponsor our.
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Speaker 2: Nurse for Us yep, yep. So we are sister company
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Speaker 2: for CE for Less And the way we came together
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Speaker 2: is like two pieces of a puzzles kind of how
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Speaker 2: we describe it. CE for Less they have about two
6:50
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty text based courses that are so it's
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Speaker 2: kind of like you read something a take as test
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Speaker 2: and that's how ce for Less works. Our sweet spot
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Speaker 2: at CEU Creations is more the live stream because there's
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Speaker 2: a live requirement with about half the states, and some
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Speaker 2: people prefer live some people, you know, it's just a preference.
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Speaker 2: So we have live stream and then we take those
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Speaker 2: live stream and we make them into video on demand
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Speaker 2: and we have about gosh, eighty something hours of video
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Speaker 2: on demand or eighty something courses of video on demand.
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Speaker 2: Plus we do at least four full day events per
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Speaker 2: per month and sometimes shorter ones. We're doing tons of
7:29
Speaker 2: live stream events. So between our two our companies like this,
7:33
Speaker 2: we say we kind of cover the gamut. Whatever people
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Speaker 2: want to go to. If they want tech space, they've
7:37
Speaker 2: got ce for Last with the tech space, and then
7:40
Speaker 2: we've got the live and the video on demand, and
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Speaker 2: so it's really exciting for us.
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Speaker 1: Okay, now let me I want to go back for
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Speaker 1: a second because I'm very intrigued. You said, like from
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Speaker 1: the get go, you wanted to be a social worker. Yeap,
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Speaker 1: why social worker? Why not? Like a therapist? Story? Psychology
7:58
Speaker 1: you know why social worker.
8:01
Speaker 2: I felt like, and it's kind of worked out this way,
8:04
Speaker 2: and I've never really thought about this until you just
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Speaker 2: asked me this question. But I really felt like as
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Speaker 2: a social worker, I did a lot of interviewing. I
8:11
Speaker 2: interviewed different professionals and just talked to different people, a
8:16
Speaker 2: lot of informational interviews because I wasn't one hundred percent sure.
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Speaker 2: Did I want to do therapy, did I want to do,
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Speaker 2: you know, more medical social work? Did I want to
8:23
Speaker 2: do school social work? Kind of new I thought I
8:25
Speaker 2: wanted to work with the aging population initially, but I
8:28
Speaker 2: wasn't one hundred percent sure, and so I think I
8:31
Speaker 2: felt like the social work degree was the most versatile,
8:34
Speaker 2: so it gave me that opportunity to change. And so
8:37
Speaker 2: now I was talking to somebody the other day. He
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Speaker 2: was like, well, do you still do social work? And
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Speaker 2: I'm like, I do, but I would say it's a
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Speaker 2: macro social work where I'm helping and putting together my
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Speaker 2: favorite part of what I do, besides leading my awesome team.
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Speaker 2: But I just love creating these cool different ce experience
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Speaker 2: I like to call them experiences, like I said, where
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Speaker 2: I can make it fun for the learner, make them
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Speaker 2: them into an experience, and they can walk away with
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Speaker 2: tools that they can use every day and their practices,
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Speaker 2: and they leave saying, thank you so much, You've made
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Speaker 2: my job easier. This is best se I've ever been to.
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Speaker 2: That's what fuels us. So I think the social worker
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Speaker 2: is more the versatility of the degree had drawn me
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Speaker 2: to it, and it's kind of worked out for me.
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Speaker 1: So let's go back to that moment where you were
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Speaker 1: in that ce conference room or whatever it was, and
9:26
Speaker 1: you're like twiddling or thumb yep it could and the
9:30
Speaker 1: light bulb went off. Yeah, So what were you thinking
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Speaker 1: at that time? Like I want to make this better.
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Speaker 1: I can do this better. What was take us there?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? So I was in downtown Atlanta. We had like
9:45
Speaker 2: an hour to go somewhere for lunch, and if we
9:47
Speaker 2: were late, you got docks because it was you know,
9:49
Speaker 2: and so and try to go somewhere in downtown Atlanta
9:52
Speaker 2: over lunch and get there come, you know, And I
9:55
Speaker 2: was like, I kept thinking, there just has to be
9:58
Speaker 2: a better way to do this where we could have
9:59
Speaker 2: lun unch, you know. And I kept I'm just a thinker,
10:03
Speaker 2: and so how can I do this? Better. How can
10:05
Speaker 2: I do it better? If I brought in sponsors, I
10:07
Speaker 2: could provide lunch and people wouldn't need to leave, and
10:09
Speaker 2: I could bring down the prices of my events. And
10:12
Speaker 2: so that just really really really got me thinking that
10:16
Speaker 2: day that yeah, I felt like I could do it better,
10:19
Speaker 2: and getting that thought process going, getting the brainstorm and going,
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Speaker 2: I think that's just the way my mind works, and
10:24
Speaker 2: working on how can I do this better so that
10:28
Speaker 2: it can be a great experience, Because you have to
10:31
Speaker 2: think about a lot of these clinicians when they're coming
10:33
Speaker 2: to these ces, it's a day off, or sometimes their
10:38
Speaker 2: company isn't even paying for them to take that day off,
10:41
Speaker 2: but they're coming. So it's I want it to be
10:44
Speaker 2: a fun, engaging experience if they walk away with something,
10:48
Speaker 2: I don't want it to be a miserable day off.
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Speaker 2: So I was thinking of all of these things as
10:52
Speaker 2: I was trying to kind of come up with something.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so what do you do? What were some of
10:57
Speaker 1: the first moves you made? How did you like operationalize this?
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Speaker 1: How did you make this a reality?
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Speaker 2: So at the time I was also working, like I said,
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Speaker 2: with the elder law attorneys, and I was pretty connected
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Speaker 2: with some sponsors, and so started also building those networking connections.
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Speaker 2: I think that's a really big thing, is I'm always networking.
11:19
Speaker 2: I'm always building relationships and building connections so that you know,
11:23
Speaker 2: the business can grow, we can do the different things
11:26
Speaker 2: we want to do and things like that. So I
11:28
Speaker 2: started working with sponsors and then also just started trying
11:33
Speaker 2: to think outside the box. How could I do a topic.
11:37
Speaker 2: So here's an example I had because I was kind
11:39
Speaker 2: of in that geriatric space. I had a social worker
11:43
Speaker 2: come up to me once and say, and if I
11:46
Speaker 2: hear another CE on dementia, I'm going to lose my
11:49
Speaker 2: own line. Now does that mean I don't do ces
11:53
Speaker 2: on dementia, No, but it means I'm going to do
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Speaker 2: them differently. So for example, and I love this because
12:00
Speaker 2: I keep in touch with Caroline to this day. She
12:03
Speaker 2: actually just did another play reading for me, but got
12:05
Speaker 2: in touch with an Atlanta actress who is very very
12:08
Speaker 2: well known here in Atlanta. She was caring for her
12:11
Speaker 2: mom with dementia, and she actually always wanted to write
12:15
Speaker 2: something on dementia, but never kind of knew how to
12:19
Speaker 2: do that, knew the way to go, or how she
12:20
Speaker 2: wanted to do that. So I'm like, let's go to lunch,
12:22
Speaker 2: let's bring storm. So we went to lunch and we brainstorm,
12:25
Speaker 2: and from a social work perspective, I was like, here's
12:27
Speaker 2: what I would love to see in a play about dementia.
12:31
Speaker 2: She wrote a twenty minute play that we have used
12:35
Speaker 2: in CEES that gives the perspective of and she's the
12:38
Speaker 2: only actor in it. Her as a young girl caring
12:41
Speaker 2: for her grandmother with dementia, her growing up caring for
12:44
Speaker 2: her mother with dementia. She showcases the feelings a person
12:48
Speaker 2: with dementia might have being scared, She showcases what a
12:52
Speaker 2: caregiver might have, what a child. It is the most like,
12:54
Speaker 2: it gives me chills when I'm talking to you about it.
12:56
Speaker 2: And then we follow that up with expert in space
13:00
Speaker 2: discussion around the topic of dementia and different things. So
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Speaker 2: that's kind of an example of that showcases wow.
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Speaker 1: So like completely engaging the audience, which.
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Speaker 2: I have because they're drawn into that play or that
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Speaker 2: musical or whatever it is, and then they want to
13:19
Speaker 2: know more, so how can we teach them more? So
13:22
Speaker 2: then we bring in the experts who also speak on it.
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Speaker 2: But I would argue that Carolyn, who has cared for
13:27
Speaker 2: people with dementia in her life since she was a child,
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Speaker 2: is an expert on dementia in her own way. We
13:33
Speaker 2: also bring in the other experts on dementia, the social workers,
13:37
Speaker 2: the case managers, nurses, or what have you, and combine that.
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Speaker 1: So what I love about this is you, you know, coming
13:48
Speaker 1: from this place of wanting to help people quote unquote,
13:51
Speaker 1: and I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, that could be a
13:55
Speaker 1: lot of different things, but so inspired and using your
14:00
Speaker 1: creativity to say, Okay, how can we make this better?
14:04
Speaker 1: How can we make this different? So here you are
14:07
Speaker 1: creating this company. Well that's a whole other thing, right,
14:10
Speaker 1: you had to go out and create your own company,
14:12
Speaker 1: but differentiating it from other other companies in the in
14:16
Speaker 1: the space, making it engaging for the clinicians who were coming,
14:22
Speaker 1: and really engaging people. That that's so inspiring. I mean
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Speaker 1: to me, that's what I tried to do with this.
14:29
Speaker 1: So you'll find that really inspiring. So were you daunted
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Speaker 1: at all in the sense of, wait a minute, I
14:36
Speaker 1: got to create a company around this. Were you just
14:38
Speaker 1: you just seemed like you just were off to the races.
14:41
Speaker 2: I was kind of off to the races. I you know,
14:45
Speaker 2: it happened so synergistically. It was like I really, I mean,
14:50
Speaker 2: I think looking back, it was just meant to happen,
14:52
Speaker 2: and it just happened. And you know, there was a
14:55
Speaker 2: lot of hard work and blood, sweat and tears for sure.
14:58
Speaker 2: Like when I first started, it was me doing everything,
15:00
Speaker 2: Me doing you know, all selling of the sponsorships, getting
15:04
Speaker 2: the sponsors, communicating with the sponsors. Because when you have
15:06
Speaker 2: sponsors and the cees, it does bring a different level
15:10
Speaker 2: because you're dealing not only with the educational piece of
15:12
Speaker 2: it and putting that together and the experts you need
15:14
Speaker 2: to pull together for that and all the things you
15:16
Speaker 2: need to do for the boards, but as you know,
15:18
Speaker 2: working with sponsors, you're also dealing with different companies and
15:21
Speaker 2: different you know, keeping your sponsors happy and excited and
15:24
Speaker 2: engaged and wanting to work with you more and more.
15:27
Speaker 2: So from these two angles, yeah, it was you know,
15:30
Speaker 2: it was a challenge, but I've had wonderful mentors over
15:32
Speaker 2: the years. My dad, I don't know if you've ever
15:35
Speaker 2: heard of the book selling to the C suite, but
15:38
Speaker 2: he's kind of he's an author and so he's real
15:44
Speaker 2: big in business leadership, sales kind of thing. So I've
15:47
Speaker 2: learned a lot from him. I have another great mentor,
15:49
Speaker 2: Nan O'Connor, who's here in Atlanta, who's been with me.
15:52
Speaker 2: We were just joking, gosh, I'm probably working with her
15:55
Speaker 2: now almost fifteen years, and she just taught me to
15:59
Speaker 2: be brave, taught me to believe in myself because you
16:01
Speaker 2: sometimes you don't learn in you know, mental health professionals,
16:06
Speaker 2: whether you're a counselor or social work in school for that.
16:08
Speaker 2: You don't always learn the business side of things, and
16:10
Speaker 2: sometimes you do.
16:11
Speaker 1: Like you almost never you're right.
16:13
Speaker 2: You know, And so that I think you need. I
16:18
Speaker 2: think you need a lot of good mentors for that
16:20
Speaker 2: and for people to say, no, you can charge for this,
16:22
Speaker 2: and this is what you should charge, and this is
16:24
Speaker 2: what you should you know, and you really have to
16:26
Speaker 2: have that belief in yourself that you know you can
16:30
Speaker 2: do this. And yeah, I think my mentors really helped
16:33
Speaker 2: with that.
16:34
Speaker 1: So let's kind of shift gears here. And I know
16:41
Speaker 1: you had some bundles sees that you wanted to talk about.
16:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a little bit about affordability options. So
16:48
Speaker 2: one of the things that's most important to us as
16:51
Speaker 2: we look at these helping professionals. Again, they're not millionaires.
16:55
Speaker 2: They they need affordable ces and these are a pain
17:01
Speaker 2: point for them. So we have a CE bundle, and
17:05
Speaker 2: it's actually the one of our bundles is across both
17:09
Speaker 2: of our companies, CE for Less and CE Creations, and
17:13
Speaker 2: so basically what it is is they have the choice.
17:15
Speaker 2: They get this all inclusive bundle. It includes text only
17:19
Speaker 2: with CE for Less, it includes our video on demands,
17:22
Speaker 2: and it includes also the live stream where they can interact.
17:26
Speaker 2: It's called different things in many states. Some states call
17:29
Speaker 2: it like Georgia calls it synchronous. Some states call it
17:32
Speaker 2: live interactive. But it's a requirement in about half the states.
17:34
Speaker 2: So it includes that piece as well, which is almost
17:37
Speaker 2: unheard of. And it's two hundred and forty nine dollars
17:40
Speaker 2: for twelve months of unlimited of any of these type
17:43
Speaker 2: of cees. And they can find more about that. They
17:46
Speaker 2: can go to cefless dot com and look for the
17:48
Speaker 2: bundle that includes the live piece too, So it's like
17:51
Speaker 2: the all inclusive bundle.
17:53
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned that term synchronous, and that means live basically.
17:58
Speaker 2: So synchronous is a yeah, different states use different terms
18:01
Speaker 2: for what live stream means. So live stream can where
18:06
Speaker 2: you can interact with the presenter, and that is a
18:08
Speaker 2: requirement in about half the states, so some states called synchronous.
18:12
Speaker 2: Some pieces call it live interactive basically where you can
18:15
Speaker 2: interact with the presenter, and that is included in our
18:18
Speaker 2: in our two forty nine bundle on ce for Less
18:20
Speaker 2: where the live is included, that piece, which is usually
18:23
Speaker 2: unheard of, is included.
18:25
Speaker 1: Okay, and this is for just to be clear for
18:28
Speaker 1: our listeners here, this is for uh any type of
18:33
Speaker 1: mental health professional or who is this for specifically? Right?
18:36
Speaker 2: So with CEE for Less there and you can go
18:41
Speaker 2: on the website and see there's all different certifications. But
18:43
Speaker 2: I would say that some of the main certifications are
18:46
Speaker 2: social workers, counselors with CEE for Less, psychologists, MFTs, that
18:50
Speaker 2: sort of thing. Okay, SeeU creations has social workers, counselors,
18:55
Speaker 2: case managers, nurses, and then we are pending psychologists as well.
19:00
Speaker 2: We're in the process for that too. So yeah, so
19:02
Speaker 2: kind of across the gammut and then eat on ce
19:05
Speaker 2: for less web page, you'll see more of the like
19:08
Speaker 2: nitty gritty smaller credentials. If you get stay per state.
19:11
Speaker 2: There's so many of them, like you know, so yeah, yeah, So.
19:14
Speaker 1: Kind of as we wind down here, what do you
19:17
Speaker 1: want to say? What do you hope would come to
19:21
Speaker 1: get these ces? People who want a different experience, want
19:26
Speaker 1: to more engage experience. How would you phrase it? What
19:29
Speaker 1: would you say?
19:30
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that people who want to have a community.
19:36
Speaker 2: So we always talk about, especially in our live CES,
19:39
Speaker 2: kind of how our chat just goes crazy and we
19:42
Speaker 2: kind of create a community. And that's another thing with
19:44
Speaker 2: our bundle on the CEU creation side and the live
19:47
Speaker 2: piece and the video on demand. With our bundle, we
19:50
Speaker 2: are also building out a resource page that doesn't only
19:53
Speaker 2: support your educational needs, it supports your professional and personal
20:02
Speaker 2: growth throughout the years. So we're putting we have different
20:05
Speaker 2: you know, we have a newsletter that goes out just
20:07
Speaker 2: to our bundle folks that shares different resources, that shares
20:10
Speaker 2: different So I would say, anyone looking for a very
20:13
Speaker 2: unique and different ce experience that also builds in a
20:16
Speaker 2: sense of community, and hey, we can do this together. Yeah,
20:19
Speaker 2: try out ce for lesson CEU Creations.
20:22
Speaker 1: Love it, love it, man, awesome, so inspiring, my god,
20:26
Speaker 1: I love it.
20:27
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Well, I love what you do too.
20:30
Speaker 2: I love how you reach your and it's a similar
20:32
Speaker 2: model using the sponsors and things like that. So you
20:35
Speaker 2: speak my language.
20:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. So all right, what's the
20:39
Speaker 1: best way for people to learn more about what you're doing?
20:42
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think they can go. You know, the
20:44
Speaker 2: biggest thing I like to talk about is that bundle.
20:46
Speaker 2: So I think going to cefo last dot com and
20:49
Speaker 2: looking at the bundle that includes the live ce portion
20:53
Speaker 2: is going to be the best way to check out
20:54
Speaker 2: our bundle. They can also check us out at CEU
20:57
Speaker 2: Creations i NC dot com if they'd like you was well,
21:00
Speaker 2: but again for that bundle, I think going to ce
21:02
Speaker 2: for less dot com and looking up the all inclusive
21:06
Speaker 2: bundle with live is the way to go.
21:09
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, all right, and appreciate you. Thanks so much
21:12
Speaker 1: for being here. We'll be in touch.
21:13
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much for having me guys.
21:16
Speaker 1: Bye,