Transcript

Credlin | 20 April · Credlin

0:01
Speaker 1: Peter Krandland Live on Sky News Australia.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good evening, Welcome to the program, kicking off for a
0:09
Speaker 2: big week. Here's what's coming up tonight on Kredline. The
0:12
Speaker 2: US has seized an Iranian oil tanker in the Strait
0:15
Speaker 2: of Hormus and the latest escalation in the Middle East.
0:18
Speaker 2: Chris Yulman with Moore as the Treasurer today blame both
0:21
Speaker 2: the Iran war and Donald Trump for his own budget woes.
0:25
Speaker 2: Another violent weekend in Melbourne and yet at the same
0:28
Speaker 2: time we've got the state government pulling security officers from
0:31
Speaker 2: more than one hundred and twenty train stations in the
0:34
Speaker 2: Northern Territory where they've hit crime hard. The results are
0:38
Speaker 2: in and boy they're dramatic. Funny about that. Plus Ben
0:42
Speaker 2: Robert Smith breaks his silence as serious questions mount for
0:45
Speaker 2: prosecutors regarding fairness and delay class The latest polls suggests
0:51
Speaker 2: one nation and support has dipped. But you wouldn't have
0:54
Speaker 2: thought that if you're in the Victorian seat of Nepean
0:56
Speaker 2: on the weekend. That is of course an apn where
1:17
Speaker 2: there is a key state Victorian bar election coming out.
1:20
Speaker 2: But first ever one to let a crisis go to waste.
1:23
Speaker 2: Labour's moving fast to use it run as an excuse
1:27
Speaker 2: for one almighty tax and spend budget in May, and
1:31
Speaker 2: the scapegoat for all the tax increases will be the
1:34
Speaker 2: US President, who is easy to demonize.
1:37
Speaker 3: Let's be honest, if you.
1:38
Speaker 4: Think about the last few days, it's been a pretty
1:41
Speaker 4: wild ride. When it comes to developments in the war
1:44
Speaker 4: in the Middle East. We had some very welcome progress,
1:49
Speaker 4: some very welcome developments only a few days ago. But
1:53
Speaker 4: obviously we've seen some of that progress unwound, potentially quite
1:59
Speaker 4: signific Frequently it does feel like two steps forward and
2:03
Speaker 4: one step back when it comes to these developments.
2:07
Speaker 2: Never ever is any mess Labour's fault. As Peter Costello
2:12
Speaker 2: reminded me in my exclusive interview with a former Treasurer
2:15
Speaker 2: which airs tomorrow night.
2:18
Speaker 1: You know, there's an expression you'll sometimes hear, never waste
2:23
Speaker 1: a good crisis. And I think the big government people
2:27
Speaker 1: they didn't waste their opportunity when two thousand and eight occurred,
2:30
Speaker 1: the financial crisis.
2:34
Speaker 3: Big spin, pink bats, cashier clunkers. Kevin couldn't help himself,
2:38
Speaker 3: school halls right, nine hundred dollars checks to dead people.
2:42
Speaker 3: Peter Costello checks to dead people.
2:45
Speaker 1: Here's an opportunity to really ramp up spending.
2:50
Speaker 2: Okay, we were talking there about the global financial crisis,
2:54
Speaker 2: which one year into offers labour used to blow Costello's
2:59
Speaker 2: surplus and turners from a country with no need to
3:02
Speaker 2: debt to one that's now drowning in it, as our
3:05
Speaker 2: official debt ticker sits at a whopping nine hundred and
3:08
Speaker 2: ninety seven billion dollars tonight.
3:11
Speaker 3: And whether it's panic.
3:12
Speaker 2: Over the GFC as it was back then the Ukraine War. Now,
3:16
Speaker 2: of course the crisis in the Persian Gulf. Labor is
3:19
Speaker 2: rated cunning and quick to use any emergency so we
3:23
Speaker 2: can spend, to spend and to texts.
3:27
Speaker 5: Now we've got a gament right now that had lost
3:29
Speaker 5: control of inflation and had lost control of interest rates.
3:33
Speaker 6: Before the crisis.
3:34
Speaker 5: In the Middle East, we'd already seen inflation going up,
3:38
Speaker 5: we'd seen interest rate increases. Now many more on the horizon.
3:43
Speaker 5: Australia's standard of living is going backwards at a time
3:47
Speaker 5: when we needed to be going forwards.
3:51
Speaker 2: All of these nasties won't be the fact, aren't the reason,
3:54
Speaker 2: because labor is addicted to spending and it can't resist
3:58
Speaker 2: a class war policy ticks play conveniently, though it won't
4:02
Speaker 2: be any of that that's at fault. It will be
4:04
Speaker 2: Donald Trump Donald Trump to blame for the tax hikes,
4:07
Speaker 2: like changes to capital gains tax, which, by taxing inflation regains,
4:12
Speaker 2: amounts to little more than a wealth tax. Also likely
4:16
Speaker 2: to be hit will be negative gearing for rental properties, which,
4:19
Speaker 2: by raising the effective cost of owning a rental property,
4:22
Speaker 2: amounts to a tax on renters and will likely cut
4:26
Speaker 2: the amount of rentals available in the market, as it
4:29
Speaker 2: did when Keating tried the same game but then scrapped
4:32
Speaker 2: it in the nineteen nineties, Just like the mining tax
4:36
Speaker 2: too that Charmers tried when he was chief of staff
4:40
Speaker 2: to Wayne swan Well, expect that we're going to see
4:42
Speaker 2: in May a tax hit on gas exporters, again retrospectively
4:48
Speaker 2: changing the rules that will further discourage large scale investment
4:52
Speaker 2: in this country, which is already regarded as worse than
4:55
Speaker 2: Mexico for sovereign risk as a place to invest. Times
5:00
Speaker 2: might sometimes be the reason for governments to spend war,
5:04
Speaker 2: but it's got to be done responsibly. It can't just
5:08
Speaker 2: make the economy less efficient or permanently increase the size
5:11
Speaker 2: of the state, and tough times can't be used to
5:15
Speaker 2: mask poor performance for which it's actually the government that's
5:20
Speaker 2: to blame. It was in the Ukraine War or the
5:22
Speaker 2: Iran War that's caused federal government spending to bileurn out
5:26
Speaker 2: to twenty seven percent of GDP, fully three percentage points
5:30
Speaker 2: or close to one hundred billion a year higher than
5:33
Speaker 2: when Labor first came to office. It's not the Iran
5:37
Speaker 2: War that will soon push federal government debt beyond one
5:41
Speaker 2: trillion dollars or one thousand billion dollars. Again, all points
5:47
Speaker 2: picked up by Costello.
5:49
Speaker 1: Here's the point I'd make long before this recent operation
5:54
Speaker 1: Epic Theory in Iran, which started at the end of February,
5:59
Speaker 1: we had inflation problem. Our inflation pre Iran was at
6:06
Speaker 1: three point eight percent. Now inflation is supposed to be
6:08
Speaker 1: between two and three. Pre Iran, we're at three point
6:11
Speaker 1: eight run. That's a bad place to start from. And
6:16
Speaker 1: then we go into Iran. You see, we should have
6:19
Speaker 1: been in a much stronger position before this came along.
6:26
Speaker 1: But you know, there's been this weak productivity, there's been
6:30
Speaker 1: this overregulation, there's been this rising taxation, there's been this
6:34
Speaker 1: sluggish growth. You know, we're much more fragile I should
6:38
Speaker 1: have been, and then the windblows.
6:42
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is a big anniversary for sound budget management, the
6:46
Speaker 2: sort of budget management that we're not getting from the
6:49
Speaker 2: Albanesi government. And it's also a stark reminder of how
6:52
Speaker 2: far we've gone backwards since the days of when it
6:56
Speaker 2: was Costello.
6:57
Speaker 3: Who balanced our nation's books.
6:59
Speaker 2: Tomorrow, so it is twenty years since Australia recorded the
7:03
Speaker 2: very rare feat of no net commonwealth debt. All that
7:07
Speaker 2: we then owed paid off and money in the bank.
7:12
Speaker 1: Mister speaker.
7:13
Speaker 7: We have now eliminated the ninety six billion dollars of
7:16
Speaker 7: net debt that Labor left the Australian government when it
7:20
Speaker 7: left office. Our budget is in surplus for the ninth
7:25
Speaker 7: time in ten years, a four car surplus in two
7:29
Speaker 7: thousand and sixty seven of ten point eight billion dollars.
7:33
Speaker 7: Now the Australian government is debt free in net terms.
7:37
Speaker 7: We do not have to collect taxes to pay the
7:39
Speaker 7: government interest bill. We are saving over eight billion dollars
7:44
Speaker 7: in annual interest payments.
7:48
Speaker 2: That interview with Costello is tomorrow on the anniversary. And
7:52
Speaker 2: in addition to our discussion about Australia's current budget position.
7:56
Speaker 2: He strongly condemns our abject failure as a nation when
8:00
Speaker 2: it comes to energy security, pointedly going after the Prime
8:03
Speaker 2: Minister's recent rush around the region to Singapore and Malaysia,
8:07
Speaker 2: brune and elsewhere begging for extra liquid fuels.
8:12
Speaker 1: We we live on a continent, right, We've got a
8:17
Speaker 1: whole continent, and yet we're up in Singapore, which is
8:22
Speaker 1: a tiny little arland, and we'll all.
8:26
Speaker 3: We're blessed with what's in the ground here.
8:27
Speaker 1: Looking looking for oil from Singapore, it's just a little
8:30
Speaker 1: city's date. We've got a whole continent, by the way, right,
8:34
Speaker 1: We've got reserves all over this continent. Gas were the biggest,
8:38
Speaker 1: one of the biggest gas producers in the world. There
8:41
Speaker 1: is more oil in Australia. Why aren't we developing it? Well,
8:45
Speaker 1: we've got a policy no new fossil fuels. This is
8:48
Speaker 1: our policy. This is it's not an accident that we're
8:53
Speaker 1: no longer producing enough for our own needs. This is
8:57
Speaker 1: this is a policy. This is a government policy that
9:01
Speaker 1: says we don't want new oil, we don't want to
9:05
Speaker 1: use gas. This is a policy. We're in this predicament.
9:08
Speaker 1: Because we have chosen it. The rest of the world
9:10
Speaker 1: will be looking at us. I think I've in Singapore,
9:12
Speaker 1: they'd be saying, this is weird. These people have got
9:16
Speaker 1: a whole country, they got all the resources. They're up
9:19
Speaker 1: here begging us through oil and gas. Why would this happen?
9:22
Speaker 2: This requires tough decisions at a grown up government. Hard
9:29
Speaker 2: to disagree with any of that is it. He's in
9:37
Speaker 2: fine form, Peter Costello. We'll get to that tomorrow also too.
9:42
Speaker 2: After being free on bail last Friday, we'll hear Ben
9:45
Speaker 2: Robert Smith on the weekend came out swinging to clear
9:49
Speaker 2: his name.
9:51
Speaker 8: I understand this journey will be long. I understand this
9:54
Speaker 8: journey will be difficult, but I can promise everybody that
10:00
Speaker 8: I have never run from a fight in my life.
10:04
Speaker 8: I will never give up, and I will always be
10:07
Speaker 8: in the fight.
10:10
Speaker 2: He was steady, he was composed, and he was firm.
10:14
Speaker 2: But can he get a fair trial given the media
10:17
Speaker 2: campaign against him, the lengthy delay in bringing a case
10:20
Speaker 2: to court, and the evidentiary difficulty is of a trial
10:24
Speaker 2: with no bodies, no post mortems, no DNA, no ballistics,
10:29
Speaker 2: no other forensic evidence. Writing in the Australian Today, Law
10:33
Speaker 2: professor murkho Bergarig said, and I quote, based on publicly
10:37
Speaker 2: available information, this prosecution faces formidable legal obstacles and is
10:43
Speaker 2: likely to fail. He said the saturation publicity and prior
10:48
Speaker 2: findings of wrongdoing may make it impossible to impanel an
10:52
Speaker 2: impartial jury. It's also likely many Australian soldiers will decline
10:58
Speaker 2: to testify. Plus, he said, there is the absence, the
11:02
Speaker 2: absent evidence of physical evidence. So I'm sure you're now asking,
11:08
Speaker 2: aren't you? Why then is this trial going ahead? One
11:13
Speaker 2: claim is so that we avoid becoming embroiled in proceedings
11:17
Speaker 2: before the International Criminal Court, which can take over war
11:21
Speaker 2: crimes cases if a country fails to prosecute. Plus, it's
11:26
Speaker 2: much easier for the politicians to justify spending three hundred
11:29
Speaker 2: million on the Brereton inquiry if it gets a scalp,
11:34
Speaker 2: rather than ends up just a shocking exercise in tarnishing
11:37
Speaker 2: the reputation of our soldiers. Now, the criminal court angle
11:41
Speaker 2: is something former soldier and war crimes expert Glenn column
11:46
Speaker 2: Meets believes has legs and he joins me later in
11:50
Speaker 2: the show to discuss this further.
11:53
Speaker 3: What a mess.
11:58
Speaker 2: All right, We'll go to Camber now for the head lines.
12:00
Speaker 2: Skynis political reporter Trundy Macintosh.
12:03
Speaker 9: With just over three weeks until the Federal budget, the
12:06
Speaker 9: Treasurer is vowing to press ahead with ambitious reform. The
12:09
Speaker 9: Middle East war could blow a hole in the federal budget.
12:12
Speaker 9: Jim Charmer's flagging higher inflation, higher unemployment and lower growth.
12:17
Speaker 4: The Australian economy is in lots of ways hostage to
12:21
Speaker 4: those developments.
12:22
Speaker 9: Tax reform is still on the table, including for housing.
12:25
Speaker 4: We do think that there is intergenerational unfairness.
12:28
Speaker 9: One option reverting the current capital gains tax discount to
12:32
Speaker 9: the old system prior to nineteen ninety nine. That would
12:35
Speaker 9: mean a less generous deduction based on cumulative inflation.
12:38
Speaker 4: But we haven't changed those policies. We haven't taken any decisions.
12:42
Speaker 5: Look, I hear about three thought bubbles a day on
12:45
Speaker 5: what the government might do.
12:47
Speaker 9: The Treasurer is also facing calls, including from some on
12:50
Speaker 9: the Labour backbench, to make the gas giants pay more
12:53
Speaker 9: tax and.
12:54
Speaker 6: This might be a bit controversial.
12:55
Speaker 10: I also think it's reasonable to expect more from our
12:58
Speaker 10: resources sector.
13:00
Speaker 9: This government should have the guts to take on the
13:02
Speaker 9: one percent to make those gas companies pay their fair share,
13:05
Speaker 9: and the federal budget will include major cutbacks to the
13:08
Speaker 9: National Disability Insurance Scheme.
13:10
Speaker 4: The NDIS is growing too fast for Australians to afford.
13:14
Speaker 9: The Health Minister will announce the NDIS overhaul at the
13:17
Speaker 9: Press Club this Wednesday.
13:19
Speaker 5: Any fraud in the NDOS needs to be weeded out.
13:22
Speaker 5: That every dollar has to be used well and we
13:24
Speaker 5: have to make sure it gets to the right person
13:26
Speaker 5: in the right way.
13:27
Speaker 9: Trudy Macintosh Sky News Canberra.
13:31
Speaker 2: All right to him now, as he does every Monday.
13:32
Speaker 2: Sky's political contributor Chris Yulman. Chris, let's start, of course,
13:37
Speaker 2: with the Iran and the impact on our fuel supplies
13:40
Speaker 2: the economy here too. In Australia, the US has seized
13:43
Speaker 2: an Iranian tanker. It's a flag tanker. It was attempting
13:46
Speaker 2: to get past the US blockade of the Straight of
13:49
Speaker 2: hor Mooz. There was a post from the President saying
13:52
Speaker 2: that he urged Iran to accept a deal, once again
13:56
Speaker 2: threatening power plants and bridges. I don't want the US
14:01
Speaker 2: to leave, Chris, without the world being safer than it
14:04
Speaker 2: was before we went in, right, So whatever sort of
14:08
Speaker 2: agreement we end up with has to be better than
14:11
Speaker 2: where we started. But what does the end of this
14:14
Speaker 2: conflict look like?
14:18
Speaker 10: And that is the sixty four million dollar question, Peter.
14:22
Speaker 10: It's got to look like the strait being as opened
14:25
Speaker 10: as it was before the war. Otherwise it is a
14:28
Speaker 10: strategic fail for the United States. And look, this is
14:30
Speaker 10: something we've seen over and over again. It is the
14:34
Speaker 10: inability of the US, under whatever president, to be able
14:37
Speaker 10: to turn overwhelming tactical force into long term strategic victorism.
14:42
Speaker 10: We've seen this played out since the Vietnam War. So,
14:45
Speaker 10: at the very least, and Dunald Trump clearly knows it,
14:47
Speaker 10: as he constantly threatens about opening up the Strait of
14:50
Speaker 10: Horn moves that that does need to be done. One
14:52
Speaker 10: of the problems you've also got, Peter, I think, is
14:54
Speaker 10: it remember how he kept doing happy dances about the
14:57
Speaker 10: fact that they were killing off more and more of
14:58
Speaker 10: a leadership and this was a sign of victory. Well,
15:00
Speaker 10: if you kill off enough of them, what you end
15:02
Speaker 10: up with is no real leaders inside that country, and
15:05
Speaker 10: the people with the guns will be the ones making
15:07
Speaker 10: the decisions, and there would appear to be split decisions
15:11
Speaker 10: inside Iran. So who do you negotiate with when you've
15:15
Speaker 10: killed all the people who are actually running the show.
15:19
Speaker 2: It might help us some allies will pull in their weight,
15:21
Speaker 2: but my audience has heard me on that before. We'll
15:24
Speaker 2: move though, now to the commentary today from the treasurer.
15:28
Speaker 3: You know, I think very much.
15:30
Speaker 2: Shaping this budget is tax and spend as all because
15:33
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump. We're forced to do what we didn't
15:35
Speaker 2: want to do. You know, we were shaping a different budget,
15:37
Speaker 2: he says in January. We're now making accommodations because of
15:42
Speaker 2: this Persian Gulf war, as he did with Iran, as
15:46
Speaker 2: he tends to blame everybody else here. He is today
15:49
Speaker 2: discussing inflation and growth.
15:52
Speaker 4: It relies on decisions taken in Washington and Tehran and elsewhere.
15:59
Speaker 4: The Australian economy is in lots of ways hostage to
16:03
Speaker 4: those developments and those decisions, and so more than the
16:06
Speaker 4: usual amount of uncertainty.
16:09
Speaker 2: We're at nine hundred and ninety seven billion dollars in
16:13
Speaker 2: terms of our gross debt. He'll soon be trillion dollar gym.
16:18
Speaker 2: Does any of this blame game from charmers surprise you?
16:24
Speaker 10: Oh no, not at all, I think Peter Costello covered
16:26
Speaker 10: it very well earlier on and I'm looking forward to
16:28
Speaker 10: that interview with you between you and him tomorrow night,
16:31
Speaker 10: because he's always entertaining and always into sightful. But yes,
16:34
Speaker 10: we were heading towards the trillion dollars worth of debt
16:36
Speaker 10: before we hit this crisis. Yes, inflation was already on
16:40
Speaker 10: the march in Australia before this crisis. And yes we
16:42
Speaker 10: were completely unprepared with our fuel surprise to face a
16:46
Speaker 10: crisis like this. So Australia was in a very bad
16:48
Speaker 10: position going into this, and of course it has made
16:50
Speaker 10: things worse. What we're likely facing now is stagflation. It's
16:54
Speaker 10: a word we haven't really heard banded about much since
16:56
Speaker 10: the nineteen seventies, and that is slower growth than higher
16:59
Speaker 10: and a very difficult thing to deal with because you're
17:02
Speaker 10: caught between two stools. Usually, if you had slower growth,
17:05
Speaker 10: you'd spend more. Usually if you had higher inflation, you'd
17:07
Speaker 10: spend less. Now, how do you deal with stagflation? Well,
17:11
Speaker 10: that's something that took governments around the world a very
17:13
Speaker 10: long time to deal with after the oil crisis, the
17:16
Speaker 10: two of them in the nineteen seventies. So yes, things
17:19
Speaker 10: have gotten more difficult, but let's not hide the fact
17:22
Speaker 10: that we made things extremely difficult for ourselves on the
17:26
Speaker 10: way into this crisis, and no more so than we
17:28
Speaker 10: have done over such a long period of time.
17:30
Speaker 3: On fuel.
17:32
Speaker 2: Let's got a news. Support for One Nation has cooled slightly.
17:36
Speaker 2: It was a high of twenty seven. It's now twenty four.
17:39
Speaker 2: It's not overing the custard though it's still ahead of
17:41
Speaker 2: the Coalition One Nation's twenty four, the Coalition's twenty one.
17:45
Speaker 2: Labor I might add as thirty one. What do you
17:48
Speaker 2: thinks driving this drop in One Nation?
17:53
Speaker 6: It's hard to say.
17:53
Speaker 10: There's been some bad publicity for One Nation recently, and
17:56
Speaker 10: of course once you start to look like you might
17:58
Speaker 10: be a party of government, people start asking more questions.
18:01
Speaker 10: But look, it's fantastic position for them to be in
18:03
Speaker 10: a diabolical one for the coalition. And the only way
18:06
Speaker 10: I can see this ending at the moment. In elections
18:08
Speaker 10: that are coming up, and particularly the one we're going
18:10
Speaker 10: to see in Barah, the by election there, all the
18:13
Speaker 10: Liberal Party's preferences will do will be to push either candidate,
18:17
Speaker 10: either One Nation candidate or the independent candidate over the line.
18:20
Speaker 11: There.
18:20
Speaker 10: The Liberals are in no position to win that particular race.
18:22
Speaker 10: And then we have the really important election in Victoria
18:25
Speaker 10: later in the year and just into Allen must be
18:28
Speaker 10: very very happy indeed about the circumstances at the moment,
18:30
Speaker 10: because while the coalition forces and the Conservative forces are divided,
18:36
Speaker 10: then that opens up the possibility that the worst government
18:38
Speaker 10: in Australia will be returned. It must be so frustrating
18:41
Speaker 10: to be a Victorian people who are desperate to want
18:43
Speaker 10: to change governments, but yet what they lack is confidence
18:47
Speaker 10: and conviction in a Liberal party which has looked like
18:50
Speaker 10: nothing but a rabble in that particular state since the
18:53
Speaker 10: last election.
18:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're up to what three leaders in
18:58
Speaker 2: not even twelve months.
18:59
Speaker 3: It's a shocker.
19:00
Speaker 2: And of course we've got that thepan Bar election. It
19:03
Speaker 2: is a state by election at one nation's in the race.
19:05
Speaker 2: There there's a teal of course, and there's a Liberal
19:08
Speaker 2: just before we go. You know, Ever since we saw
19:11
Speaker 2: both of us, Sir Liam Bartlett in full flight at
19:14
Speaker 2: that press conference with Chris Bowen, and he really put
19:17
Speaker 2: Bowen under some pressure. He could tell Bowen was started
19:19
Speaker 2: to get a bit flummexed and a bit frustrated. With
19:23
Speaker 2: the questions of the attack. I've looked forward to this program.
19:26
Speaker 2: It aired last night on Channel seven, Spotlight's investigation into
19:31
Speaker 2: the renewables roll at and it was a cracker.
19:33
Speaker 3: Have a look.
19:35
Speaker 1: Between Green Dream destroying lights.
19:39
Speaker 3: Every stranger would be concerned about this. It's renewables at
19:43
Speaker 3: all cost. If a farmer or a primary producer did that,
19:48
Speaker 3: they'd be in.
19:48
Speaker 1: Jail because this is absolutely criminal behavior.
19:54
Speaker 2: Well, you know it's cutting through when the rest of
19:56
Speaker 2: the commercial TV world has woken up to the stuff
19:59
Speaker 2: Chris at you and I I've been talking about on
20:01
Speaker 2: Sky for years and years and not dissimilar to your
20:04
Speaker 2: own documentaries in this area.
20:07
Speaker 3: I mean, we've.
20:07
Speaker 2: Got Chinese controlled supply chains of wind and solar, we've
20:11
Speaker 2: got links to overseas child labor and what did you
20:14
Speaker 2: make of it?
20:17
Speaker 10: Oh, Limb's done an outstanding job. And it's the second
20:19
Speaker 10: one you might note on this. You also did what
20:21
Speaker 10: was going on with Nickel in Indonesia and there are
20:24
Speaker 10: so many elements to this. One is that the Green
20:27
Speaker 10: Dream is certainly not green, and it certainly not cheap.
20:30
Speaker 10: And what we're seeing with China is it's buying up
20:32
Speaker 10: these mines around the world and undercutting prices everywhere. And
20:35
Speaker 10: when it doesn't control the mine, it then controls the refining.
20:37
Speaker 10: So anyone who thinks they're going to produce solar panels
20:41
Speaker 10: or electric vehicles more cheaply than China is just dreaming.
20:44
Speaker 10: There'll be no future made in Australia given that we
20:46
Speaker 10: cannot compete on those things. And the other thing too,
20:48
Speaker 10: is that when you look at these things, the amount
20:50
Speaker 10: of mining that's needed for electric vehicle, it contains eight
20:53
Speaker 10: times more critical mirals than a normal conventional.
20:58
Speaker 3: Combustion engine car.
21:00
Speaker 6: So that's eight times more mining.
21:01
Speaker 10: And there's a reason they call.
21:02
Speaker 3: Them rare earths, Peter.
21:03
Speaker 10: It's because you have to dig up an enormous amount
21:05
Speaker 10: of countryside in order to gather up tiny little simbolfaols
21:08
Speaker 10: of them. There aren't enough minerals on earth to deal
21:12
Speaker 10: with the electrification of everything, and.
21:16
Speaker 2: You wonder how we got to where we are.
21:18
Speaker 3: Thank you, Chris.
21:20
Speaker 2: We'll stay with that explosive report from Channel to seven
21:22
Speaker 2: last night, Liam Barbert on the Spotlight program highlighting all
21:26
Speaker 2: the environmental damage at large scale renewables are causing to
21:31
Speaker 2: our pristine national parks, our oceans, our farmland, and more,
21:35
Speaker 2: not to mention the risk that renewables pose given their
21:38
Speaker 2: Chinese state controlled supply chains. Anyone that Chris Bale was
21:43
Speaker 2: too scared to be interviewed for the program here to
21:46
Speaker 2: discuss this and more. The director of Energy research at
21:48
Speaker 2: the Center for Independent Studies, Aiden Morrison, Aiden, thank you
21:52
Speaker 2: for your time, or you've just heard from Chris Julman,
21:55
Speaker 2: give me your verdict on last night's program.
21:58
Speaker 11: I completely agree. It was excellent to see some more
22:00
Speaker 11: mainstream media really starting to cover the important facts about
22:03
Speaker 11: this so called energy transition. The reality is is that
22:06
Speaker 11: the governments and the government, the federal government and governments
22:09
Speaker 11: across the country have rolled out excessive red carpet, including
22:13
Speaker 11: a whole range of exemptions from normal environmental controls as
22:17
Speaker 11: well as subsidies, subsidies galore to try to basically push
22:22
Speaker 11: in this solution. We're now realizing the truth that it
22:24
Speaker 11: is not nearly as clean and green as we thought,
22:27
Speaker 11: but also as we definitely know, it is not cheap.
22:30
Speaker 11: It is not lower cost overall. Once you've put in
22:33
Speaker 11: all the excess transmission and storage, etc. Those expensive batteries,
22:38
Speaker 11: you end up with expensive electricity. So I think It
22:41
Speaker 11: is great to see that people are starting to wake
22:43
Speaker 11: up to the trade offs that were I think inevitable
22:45
Speaker 11: and should have been clear a long time ago.
22:49
Speaker 2: How people understand aiden why on Earth are we spending
22:53
Speaker 2: billions of dollars to subsidize products that are made in
22:56
Speaker 2: China and the poor environmental stand it's to come here
23:00
Speaker 2: to deliver renewables.
23:01
Speaker 3: The companies that.
23:02
Speaker 2: Are buying up the farmland and installing these renewable assets
23:07
Speaker 2: are often shelf companies from Denmark and elsewhere in Europe,
23:12
Speaker 2: and the poor old farmer deals with seven or eight
23:14
Speaker 2: different players before the turbine is even erected. That's one
23:19
Speaker 2: side of the argument, and you're right to point out
23:21
Speaker 2: they get the green light on their green permits straight away.
23:25
Speaker 2: And here we've got on the other side, the Tarum
23:27
Speaker 2: Trough oil rich deposits in Queensland that would make us
23:32
Speaker 2: energy self sufficient. Yet the prime ministers flying around the
23:37
Speaker 2: region desperately trying to beg for oil but not giving
23:41
Speaker 2: the green light to the oil we have in our
23:44
Speaker 2: country here that we want to develop.
23:48
Speaker 11: Look, it is really crazy and I can only explain
23:50
Speaker 11: what's happened with renewable energy is that it's a singular obsession,
23:54
Speaker 11: and it's been done by creating this narrative of an
23:57
Speaker 11: existential threat, which creates an imperative that nothing else can
24:01
Speaker 11: compete with the idea that climate change is the biggest
24:04
Speaker 11: threat in our entire generation and anything else must be
24:07
Speaker 11: compromised in order for us to meet that, and it
24:10
Speaker 11: has to be done with renewable energy. That is driven
24:12
Speaker 11: this obsession with trying to develop renewable energy, which, as
24:15
Speaker 11: you point out, on any other objective metric, in terms
24:18
Speaker 11: of our security of supplies because it comes mostly from
24:21
Speaker 11: a foreign country in China, and also the impact it
24:24
Speaker 11: has on communities and the environment, as well as the
24:26
Speaker 11: impact it hasn't our bills. On any other objective metric
24:28
Speaker 11: you choose to assess it, it is not a very
24:31
Speaker 11: good energy system. And yet we've created and obsessed over
24:34
Speaker 11: this complete binding imperative climate catastrophism. That's meant to say
24:39
Speaker 11: anything else should not even be considered because we simply
24:42
Speaker 11: must reach this goal.
24:43
Speaker 10: And it is.
24:44
Speaker 11: Absolutely bizarre compared that to sort of other resources we have.
24:48
Speaker 11: But I would just point out though to Rumtrough, it
24:50
Speaker 11: is a very promising resource, but it is just not
24:52
Speaker 11: big enough on its own. The nearby Mooney oil field
24:56
Speaker 11: that produced about twenty four million barrels over its entire life,
24:58
Speaker 11: spanning several decades. That power us for a few weeks
25:01
Speaker 11: at the moment, So nobody really knows how much oil
25:04
Speaker 11: is still in the Troum Trough. But if there's a
25:06
Speaker 11: few hundred million barrels, that's a year with a supply.
25:09
Speaker 11: So we absolutely should be developing those resources. But those
25:13
Speaker 11: on their own, there needs to be another half dozen
25:15
Speaker 11: or a dozen behind it before we even make it
25:17
Speaker 11: dense in our security. So we have to consider things
25:19
Speaker 11: like coal conversions to exploit the real massive heft of
25:24
Speaker 11: financial resources in order to get real security.
25:28
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:29
Speaker 2: Look, I mentioned to room because it's at least a
25:30
Speaker 2: known deposit, and we don't know what else is out
25:33
Speaker 2: there because we're not looking for it. I mean, you'll
25:35
Speaker 2: find one hundred percent of nothing if you're not looking
25:38
Speaker 2: for anything. I mean, it's just if so facto, it's
25:41
Speaker 2: absolutely common sense that we're not doing what we should
25:43
Speaker 2: be doing. I guess the problem for the debate has
25:47
Speaker 2: always been on first blush.
25:50
Speaker 3: When the government.
25:51
Speaker 2: Says wind and solar is free, now winds free, Sunshine's free.
25:55
Speaker 2: Most ordinary people would say, okay, well, you know, I
25:59
Speaker 2: give weight to your argument. I mean, now they're getting
26:01
Speaker 2: a sophisticated understanding. They're certainly seeing it through their bills
26:04
Speaker 2: aiden that when you talk about wind and solar, you've
26:07
Speaker 2: got a factory in all the ways that it gets
26:09
Speaker 2: to the PowerPoint on your wall. And that's what the
26:12
Speaker 2: government is not telling us about. Now, you've got a
26:15
Speaker 2: scathing critique at the moment in relation to the draft
26:19
Speaker 2: determination of the Australian Energy Market Commission, and you I'll
26:25
Speaker 2: let you speak to it because you say there's a
26:27
Speaker 2: real problem with the way they're setting this up. Yeah.
26:31
Speaker 6: Absolutely.
26:32
Speaker 11: The reality is that Australians have basically been totally misled
26:35
Speaker 11: by the Integrated System Plan, which is presented as a
26:38
Speaker 11: least cost plan, but actually it's only least cost to
26:41
Speaker 11: do exactly what the government told them they had to do,
26:44
Speaker 11: all right, And it's an absolute miscarriage of any kind
26:47
Speaker 11: of sense of common respect for least cost analysis anywhere.
26:52
Speaker 11: The absolute first rule of any kind of economic cost
26:55
Speaker 11: benefit analysis is you include a proper neutral, do nothing baseline.
26:59
Speaker 11: And the market operator has been presenting basically government policies
27:03
Speaker 11: to rush towards renewables as some sort of virtuous least
27:07
Speaker 11: cost thing and totally disguising the fact that it could
27:10
Speaker 11: be extremely expensive. And we've put in a rule change
27:13
Speaker 11: request the Center for Event Studies to just say, why
27:16
Speaker 11: don't you at least put it in a neutral baseline,
27:18
Speaker 11: a genuine unconstrained leads cost so we can see what
27:21
Speaker 11: the cost of the policies actually are. And what's happened
27:24
Speaker 11: is the Market Commission has basically closed ranks around the
27:28
Speaker 11: market Operator, which has closed ranks around Chris Bowen saying no,
27:32
Speaker 11: we cannot possibly consider even comparing this to another alternative
27:37
Speaker 11: lest you truly discover what the enormous costs potentially actually are.
27:41
Speaker 11: So this is a huge institutional betrayal, in my opinion,
27:45
Speaker 11: of the common sense and the public interest, because we
27:48
Speaker 11: now have no way. We haven't for a long time,
27:50
Speaker 11: but we've been told that it's acceptable that we should
27:53
Speaker 11: not be able to assess actually how costly in financial terms,
27:57
Speaker 11: the government policies are.
28:01
Speaker 2: This is not how economic analysis is supposed to work.
28:03
Speaker 6: Aiden absolutely not.
28:07
Speaker 3: We'll leave it there, thank you.
28:09
Speaker 2: Coming up, another weekend of violence in Victoria, Shocking scenes
28:13
Speaker 2: at a family restaurant in the suburbs. So why I
28:15
Speaker 2: was just into Alan removing protective service officers for more
28:19
Speaker 2: than one hundred and twenty suburban train stations and those
28:23
Speaker 2: results out of the Northern territory that proved getting tough
28:26
Speaker 2: on crime delivers results.
28:28
Speaker 3: That's next.
28:33
Speaker 2: Welcome back, coming up the structural hurdles ahead of the
28:36
Speaker 2: prosecution in the Ben Robert Smith case with war crimes
28:39
Speaker 2: expert former eighty IF lawyer Glenn Colomeats. But now to
28:44
Speaker 2: another horror weekend of violent crime across Melbourne. First diners
28:48
Speaker 2: and a shopping precinct forced to flee a gang of
28:51
Speaker 2: masked us before a teenager was stabbed with a machete.
28:56
Speaker 2: Then one man dared and another seriously injured after thirty
28:59
Speaker 2: three year old men who was known to police allegedly
29:02
Speaker 2: plowed his car into fans outside the Super and Over convention.
29:07
Speaker 2: Here to discuss it, Liberal shadow Police Minister Brad Batten.
29:11
Speaker 3: Brad, thank you for your time.
29:13
Speaker 2: The Police Minister Anthony Carbine says his thoughts are with
29:15
Speaker 2: the victims of the machete attack, but that vision's confronting
29:20
Speaker 2: and when pushed about how and why these attacks are
29:22
Speaker 2: still happening despite all the promises about machete bins and
29:26
Speaker 2: tackling crime. This is what Labor had to say.
29:30
Speaker 12: The machete band saw some eighteen thousand eaged weapons surrendered
29:35
Speaker 12: that aren't available for people to use to commit crimes.
29:39
Speaker 3: I mean, this is hopeless.
29:40
Speaker 2: The good guy's handing them back in all the gardeners
29:42
Speaker 2: don't have them, but all the criminals still do.
29:46
Speaker 6: Yeah, good evening, Peter.
29:47
Speaker 12: Yet you're exactly right, Farmer Joe's handed him in the
29:49
Speaker 12: one that found the old rusted one in the shed.
29:52
Speaker 12: But the crooks that are committing the crimes are still
29:53
Speaker 12: out there doing it.
29:55
Speaker 13: And you highlighted Oakley there, and Oakley is an area
29:57
Speaker 13: I was literally there with my daughter about two weeks
30:00
Speaker 13: weeks ago, walking through that mall and just saying what
30:03
Speaker 13: an amazing spot should be, how good it would be
30:06
Speaker 13: with the family.
30:07
Speaker 6: The only reason we're in that area right at.
30:09
Speaker 12: That time was we'd just come from Oakley Police Station
30:12
Speaker 12: to do media at a station that it's just had
30:15
Speaker 12: its hours reduced. So Oakley Police Station has been reduced
30:18
Speaker 12: from a twenty four hour police station to a station
30:22
Speaker 12: that is now open from ten to six and the
30:24
Speaker 12: government have the goal to come out and say that
30:26
Speaker 12: closing police stations is not changing community safety. Well, most
30:30
Speaker 12: people didn't know about this mall other than when you
30:33
Speaker 12: went there with your family to visit the businesses. But
30:35
Speaker 12: now you're hearing about it for the wrong reasons because
30:38
Speaker 12: of a machete attack where no one cared. These kids
30:41
Speaker 12: did not care, they had no fear they were going
30:43
Speaker 12: to get caught.
30:43
Speaker 6: And what have they done.
30:44
Speaker 12: They've gone out there and crowded out an area now
30:46
Speaker 12: that people don't want to go to. And that's a
30:48
Speaker 12: sad sign for Oakley.
30:51
Speaker 2: So we've got police stations that have been built, brand
30:55
Speaker 2: new ones that they open with a big cutting of
30:56
Speaker 2: a ribbon ceremony, but they have no police in them,
31:00
Speaker 2: they don't operade or if they do, their own highly
31:01
Speaker 2: reduced hours. And then you get the announcement by the
31:04
Speaker 2: premiere over the weekend that are one hundred and twenty
31:08
Speaker 2: rail stations that have protective service officers, so unsworn police
31:13
Speaker 2: basically patrolling them will lose that security resource because they
31:18
Speaker 2: have to be deployed to other areas where crime is spiking. Well,
31:22
Speaker 2: why don't we just get more PSOs, Why just redeploy
31:25
Speaker 2: them because sure as anything, as soon as you take
31:28
Speaker 2: them off that train station, that's where the crime's going
31:31
Speaker 2: to be.
31:31
Speaker 3: That's where people will be vulnerable.
31:34
Speaker 12: It is difficult to work out what crime prevention works.
31:37
Speaker 12: Sometimes it's really hard in stats because it's prevented the
31:40
Speaker 12: crime or it's prevented something happening.
31:41
Speaker 6: It's like health prevention.
31:43
Speaker 12: There's certain things you can spend money on and you
31:45
Speaker 12: don't know the real outcome. Well, I can tell you
31:47
Speaker 12: that in twenty ten, coming into the election, then crime
31:51
Speaker 12: at railway stations was already increasing and that's why we
31:54
Speaker 12: put PSOs at the stations. This crime prevention model has
31:59
Speaker 12: worked fourteen years. This government now wants to rip it
32:02
Speaker 12: away and take those PSOs away. What they also heed
32:06
Speaker 12: in their media release they put in there they're going
32:07
Speaker 12: to put another fifty PSOs on, but they forget to
32:10
Speaker 12: tell everybody they've also opened up another five stations, another
32:14
Speaker 12: five railway stations.
32:15
Speaker 6: Where are they getting the resources from.
32:17
Speaker 12: It's because they're taking them away from areas that are
32:20
Speaker 12: places of safety that I will guarantee you, Peter, I'll
32:23
Speaker 12: be back on here in the next twelve months talking
32:25
Speaker 12: about the fact we've got crime increasing at railway stations
32:28
Speaker 12: and people feeling less safe.
32:30
Speaker 6: That is not the outcome Victorians deserve.
32:33
Speaker 2: Well please hope you're on here talking about being the minister,
32:36
Speaker 2: talking about all the things you're doing, just like the
32:39
Speaker 2: Northern Territory government to clean up the mess. I mean,
32:42
Speaker 2: who would think you get tough on crime you might
32:45
Speaker 2: actually get less crime. This is the Police Commissioner of
32:49
Speaker 2: the NT today.
32:51
Speaker 1: The simple fact is that if people are in jail,
32:55
Speaker 1: if they're incarcerated, then they can't be in the community
33:00
Speaker 1: committing offenses.
33:03
Speaker 3: Yep.
33:04
Speaker 2: And all the statistics are ahead of the right way.
33:06
Speaker 3: People are much safer in the ANDT.
33:08
Speaker 2: They've taken a very very dim view of bail of juveniles,
33:13
Speaker 2: of repeat crime offenders.
33:15
Speaker 3: Why can't we learn from that?
33:19
Speaker 6: I think we can.
33:20
Speaker 12: Queensland Northern Territory are both being tough on crime. But
33:24
Speaker 12: David chris a fully who I know that you've had
33:26
Speaker 12: on the program before, has this whole range of model.
33:29
Speaker 12: We all hear about the adult crime at at time,
33:32
Speaker 12: which the Victorian government did a half version of.
33:34
Speaker 6: We will make sure that we do the full version of.
33:37
Speaker 12: Well, make sure that when we talk about bail in
33:39
Speaker 12: Victoria that it's one striking, you're out, so break bail
33:41
Speaker 12: face jail will be under the Liberals and Nationals government
33:43
Speaker 12: because we want these criminals off the street.
33:46
Speaker 6: But there are also is programs we'll.
33:47
Speaker 12: Invest in keeping kids away from the justice system, which
33:50
Speaker 12: both Northern Territory and Queensland are doing. But it comes
33:54
Speaker 12: with the fact of if the kids, the young offenders
33:57
Speaker 12: know that they commit a crime that they're going to
33:59
Speaker 12: get sarious consequences. In Victoria, they know they can get
34:02
Speaker 12: away with it and that's why we've seen not just
34:05
Speaker 12: an increase in crime, we've seen more young offenders committing
34:08
Speaker 12: crime because they see their friends getting away with it.
34:11
Speaker 12: Under a Liberal government under Jess Wilson, we'll stop that
34:14
Speaker 12: and we'll make sure people are safer.
34:17
Speaker 2: I want to get a comment from you, Brad, because
34:19
Speaker 2: I know before politics. Of course we know you were
34:20
Speaker 2: a cop, but I also know that you ran a
34:22
Speaker 2: small business.
34:23
Speaker 3: Have a look at this sign.
34:24
Speaker 2: I saw it on the weekend at a pizza shop
34:26
Speaker 2: up towards Parliament So on Burke Street. It was open
34:30
Speaker 2: less than three months. They put their life savings into it.
34:35
Speaker 2: They've had to shut down because of safety fears, there's
34:39
Speaker 2: a really heartfelt sign on the window, you know, basically
34:41
Speaker 2: with a heavy heart. We've lost all our money, we've
34:44
Speaker 2: had to close down, but we value our lives. We
34:48
Speaker 2: cannot operate in this part of Melbourne or Melbourne full stop.
34:51
Speaker 3: What do you make of that?
34:53
Speaker 12: It breaks my heart because I know when you put
34:55
Speaker 12: your money and your time and the love into a
34:59
Speaker 12: small business lenge as you face and when you see
35:01
Speaker 12: a sign on a window saying because of effectively safety,
35:04
Speaker 12: we've decided to make the decision to close. And we're
35:07
Speaker 12: seeing it so often retail theft. I've spoken to retail
35:11
Speaker 12: store owners that unless it's over one hundred dollars, they
35:13
Speaker 12: don't even bother.
35:14
Speaker 6: Reporting it anymore.
35:15
Speaker 12: What have we got to in Victoria where owners victims
35:19
Speaker 12: don't want to report it because it's too much paperwork,
35:22
Speaker 12: it's too much hassle and nothing will get done.
35:24
Speaker 6: And I think that's the message we need to change that.
35:27
Speaker 6: They did it well in.
35:28
Speaker 12: New York, but you've got to start to ensure that
35:30
Speaker 12: you prosecute those smaller offenses so they don't lead to
35:32
Speaker 12: bigger offenders moving forward. And I guarantee you that's what
35:36
Speaker 12: we'll do because these businesses deserve to be able to
35:38
Speaker 12: operate safely and in an environment where if they put
35:40
Speaker 12: everything in that they can be rewarded.
35:44
Speaker 2: It was called the broken window theory in New York.
35:46
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, Bret Baton, Thank you coming out with
35:49
Speaker 2: the man at the center of Australia's most high profile
35:51
Speaker 2: war crimes case, Ben Robert Smith, breaks his silence and
35:56
Speaker 2: the legal battle is now raising serious questions about fairness, delay,
36:00
Speaker 2: even the reach of the International Criminal Court.
36:08
Speaker 3: Welcome back.
36:08
Speaker 2: Coming up, we'll pull apart the latest polling with my
36:10
Speaker 2: Monday Night panel including James Ashby. We'll get the inside
36:14
Speaker 2: drum too on that rock star reception for Paul and
36:17
Speaker 2: Hanson down in the seat of the pen. Of course,
36:20
Speaker 2: that's Port Sea and some pretty ritzy places down there.
36:23
Speaker 3: We got the story though.
36:24
Speaker 2: Now to the latest on the case against Ben Robert Smith,
36:27
Speaker 2: who showed fierce determination with a public statement before the
36:30
Speaker 2: media at the weekend.
36:32
Speaker 8: I understand this journey will be long. I understand this
36:35
Speaker 8: journey will be difficult, but I can promise everybody that
36:42
Speaker 8: I have never run from a fight in my life.
36:45
Speaker 8: I will never give up and I will always be
36:49
Speaker 8: in the fight.
36:52
Speaker 2: Thank you all right here to discuss this and more
36:55
Speaker 2: international law consultant, defense analyst, Army veteran doctor Glenn Colomeats Glenn,
37:02
Speaker 2: thank you for your time.
37:04
Speaker 3: I want to make this point.
37:05
Speaker 2: I think it's worth making this point upfront with the
37:07
Speaker 2: viewers that the charges against Ben Robert Smith as they stand,
37:12
Speaker 2: relate to five.
37:14
Speaker 3: Counts of the war crime of murder.
37:16
Speaker 2: Now, one specific count is that he allegedly killed an
37:20
Speaker 2: unarmed Afghan civilian, but the other four chargers are that
37:24
Speaker 2: other soldiers with him, that they allegedly did the killing
37:29
Speaker 2: at his instruction, and that, as revealed in the bail
37:33
Speaker 2: hearing on Friday, these four men will receive immunity from
37:37
Speaker 2: prosecution if and when they testify. Now, even before we
37:41
Speaker 2: get to the facts, this prosecution faces some serious hurdles here,
37:46
Speaker 2: not least the challenge of proving guilt beyond reasonable doubt
37:50
Speaker 2: to a unanimous standard after years of prior civil proceedings,
37:56
Speaker 2: and as I've mentioned, this lack of physical evidence.
38:03
Speaker 14: Yeah, that's right, Peter, it's it'll be a difficult case
38:05
Speaker 14: for the prosecution, undoubtedly for all of those reasons. And
38:10
Speaker 14: indeed there's there's issues of fairness which the unfairness which
38:13
Speaker 14: the prosecution will have to attempt to overcome due to
38:16
Speaker 14: a number of factors, including the delays.
38:21
Speaker 2: When I spoke to David Craig from the AFP of
38:24
Speaker 2: format Detective Superintendent, he said he should never have been
38:27
Speaker 2: arrested in the first place. He went through a chapter
38:30
Speaker 2: in verse about some particular statutes and said that the
38:33
Speaker 2: threshold in terms of flight risk and other things were
38:37
Speaker 2: not meet. And we also know that Robert Smith's lawyers said,
38:41
Speaker 2: should you want him, he will present himself at a
38:45
Speaker 2: police station. He could have absolutely been brought in under summons.
38:49
Speaker 2: And he made the point been Robert Smith on the weekend.
38:52
Speaker 2: I think he called it spectacular. The circumstances around what
38:57
Speaker 2: I would regard as sort of a show arrest. That's
39:00
Speaker 2: also got to make it difficult to impanel an impartial jury.
39:06
Speaker 14: I think you're right, Peter, and I was a policeman
39:09
Speaker 14: as well as you're probably not aware for a while,
39:11
Speaker 14: and we used to call it arrest by invitation. They
39:13
Speaker 14: certainly had the opportunity the AFP to arrest be arrest
39:17
Speaker 14: by invitation, rather than what been described as the spectacle
39:21
Speaker 14: on the plane and on the tarmac to my view,
39:25
Speaker 14: totally unnecessary and quite frankly well, I would say prejudicial
39:30
Speaker 14: to be honest.
39:32
Speaker 2: Why do you think they chose to arrest him in
39:35
Speaker 2: New South Wales has been.
39:37
Speaker 3: A range of things written. You know, a more varied
39:42
Speaker 3: jury was one.
39:44
Speaker 2: The fact that in New South Wales you don't require
39:48
Speaker 2: a committal hearing, as I understand in the way that
39:51
Speaker 2: you do in Queensland.
39:53
Speaker 3: What do you think was behind that decision?
39:57
Speaker 14: I've heard them, I've heard similar commentary, Peter, from former
40:00
Speaker 14: AFP officers about the broaden the broader jury pool available
40:05
Speaker 14: in New South Wales. I expect they're they're they're well,
40:09
Speaker 14: maybe a committal of sorts in New South Wales, but regardless,
40:13
Speaker 14: I think the talk about the broader jury pool makes
40:17
Speaker 14: sense that that could well be the AFP's reasoning for
40:20
Speaker 14: the arrest in Sydney.
40:23
Speaker 2: You have said that the defamation case gave prosecutors a preview,
40:27
Speaker 2: if you like, of the evidence and raises issues around
40:30
Speaker 2: the accusatory principle. Explain, to my view is what you
40:33
Speaker 2: mean by that, Peter.
40:37
Speaker 14: The case law on this on this situation describe it
40:40
Speaker 14: as a dress rehearsal for the prosecution and as you know,
40:44
Speaker 14: the in a criminal case, the prosecution are required to
40:46
Speaker 14: prove their case from beginning to end beyond reasonable doubt.
40:50
Speaker 14: The accused can choose to remain mute. Well, the accused
40:54
Speaker 14: in this case, Ben Roberts Smith has already spoken he
40:57
Speaker 14: gave evidence in the civil defamation case. So so therein
41:01
Speaker 14: lay some inherent unfairness which the prosecution will need to overcome.
41:06
Speaker 14: And in fact, the prosecutor touched on this at the
41:08
Speaker 14: bail hearing where he said he will have to confine
41:11
Speaker 14: the evidentiary landscape because Bars has already given evidence in
41:15
Speaker 14: the civil deatha case, so that itself, to my mind,
41:18
Speaker 14: almost grounds an application for a permanent stay. That's the
41:22
Speaker 14: extent of unfairness which could arise from that fact alone.
41:27
Speaker 2: You've written very eloquently and spoken eloquently about the play
41:31
Speaker 2: here of the International Criminal Court. Now, I was working
41:36
Speaker 2: for Howard government minister at the time that the Howard
41:39
Speaker 2: government signed up to the ICC, and there was this
41:42
Speaker 2: a huge internal debate. The argument was that the ICC
41:46
Speaker 2: was designed for all of these countries in the world
41:48
Speaker 2: where there wasn't a proper judicial system, and some people
41:51
Speaker 2: inside the Howard government, including my minister at the time
41:54
Speaker 2: said we shouldn't sign up to this, it could be
41:56
Speaker 2: a kangaroo court.
41:57
Speaker 3: In the end, we've got our own.
41:59
Speaker 2: Robust Westminster style judicial system in Australia and it's never
42:04
Speaker 2: been called into question in terms of its integrity. But
42:08
Speaker 2: others won the debate in the cabinet and Australia signed
42:11
Speaker 2: up to these obligations. How much has this played into
42:15
Speaker 2: what we're watching at the moment?
42:19
Speaker 14: Peter, Firstly, like previously agreed with others who said that
42:24
Speaker 14: as joan in the ICC was a good thing, including
42:26
Speaker 14: Alexander Downer. I now agree with the members of the
42:30
Speaker 14: Cabinet at the time who were against us signing up
42:33
Speaker 14: to this, and Alexander Downer has since come around and
42:35
Speaker 14: said we shouldn't be part of the ICC. It's been
42:37
Speaker 14: over politicized and quite frankly no longer fit for purpose,
42:42
Speaker 14: to be honest, but if.
42:43
Speaker 10: It ever was.
42:44
Speaker 14: But look, this is pretty much our biggest signatary to
42:48
Speaker 14: the Rome Statute. Being a part of the ic C
42:50
Speaker 14: has pretty much tied our government's hands to the point
42:53
Speaker 14: that we had to be active in investigating once Bretton
42:58
Speaker 14: handed down his findings. In activity in investigating would be
43:02
Speaker 14: the trigger for the ICC to take jurisdiction. Then, when
43:05
Speaker 14: the DPP had their brief ready and from the AFP
43:09
Speaker 14: and took it to the Attorney General for her consent,
43:12
Speaker 14: her hands were pretty much tied because if she was
43:15
Speaker 14: to not consent to the prosecution, the ICC couerd then
43:17
Speaker 14: say well, we were unable or unwilling to genuinely prosecute
43:22
Speaker 14: when we had a brief evidence in front of the
43:25
Speaker 14: Attorney General. So the considerations of public interest really were
43:30
Speaker 14: taken away from the decision maker the Attorney General. She
43:34
Speaker 14: could have really given more attention to the public interest
43:36
Speaker 14: issue here is enormous that the balance there had we
43:39
Speaker 14: not been a party to been a party to the ICC.
43:44
Speaker 2: We will be debating this, I think for a long time,
43:46
Speaker 2: and I think it'll become a matter for politicians as
43:49
Speaker 2: well as to whether Australia should remain in this international treaty.
43:54
Speaker 2: I leave it there, thank you, Glenn. After the break,
43:56
Speaker 2: we'll talk about one nation polling this rock star reception
43:59
Speaker 2: on the weekend in Victoria. James Ashby coming up in
44:02
Speaker 2: kiss Arma pretty dicey for him at the moment of
44:05
Speaker 2: the Manderson Epstein saga it continues. We'll get to that
44:08
Speaker 2: as well. Right, let's bring in my panel, former Liberal
44:15
Speaker 2: MP NA Cole Flint and One Nation chief of staff
44:17
Speaker 2: James Ashby. I'll start with news poll. James, there's been
44:21
Speaker 2: a drop in your primary today. You're still ahead comfortably
44:25
Speaker 2: over the Liberal Party.
44:26
Speaker 3: I will say one swallow a spring.
44:29
Speaker 2: It does not make I'd want to look at the trend.
44:32
Speaker 2: But do you have any insight, Peter.
44:37
Speaker 15: You and I both know that polls come and go.
44:39
Speaker 15: It's like the stock market, you have good days and
44:41
Speaker 15: bad days. I'm more interested in taking away from the
44:45
Speaker 15: labor vote if there's anything to be said here, and
44:48
Speaker 15: I think that there is a pathway forward.
44:51
Speaker 16: Look.
44:51
Speaker 15: Being on the ground, I can tell you right now
44:54
Speaker 15: the only people that are destroying this country are labor.
44:56
Speaker 15: And we've seen that. And I'm talking to businesses over
44:59
Speaker 15: the weekend, particularly in Victoria because we're down there for
45:02
Speaker 15: the Nepean by election. There's a good thirty percent of
45:05
Speaker 15: businesses that are really struggling a litt alone. The households
45:08
Speaker 15: that are barely able to keep their mortgage paid or
45:12
Speaker 15: keep food on the table and their car topped up.
45:15
Speaker 15: So look, Poles will come and go. You and I
45:17
Speaker 15: both know that I'm not interested. We're two years away
45:19
Speaker 15: from a federal election. But the feedback that I'm getting
45:23
Speaker 15: is that voters want to work with other conservative parties
45:27
Speaker 15: and get rid of labor.
45:29
Speaker 3: Yeah.
45:29
Speaker 2: I'm not overreading the poles, believe me, and I think
45:31
Speaker 2: my viewers can see that from the top of the show.
45:33
Speaker 2: But I will just quickly ask you, and I made
45:35
Speaker 2: the point before. Nepian is about the richiest seat James
45:39
Speaker 2: in Victoria. It's got Sorrento and Portsy and some pretty flash.
45:43
Speaker 3: Homes down there.
45:44
Speaker 2: But your boss, working class Pauline was a bit of
45:47
Speaker 2: a rock star on the weekend. Did it feel like
45:50
Speaker 2: that to you on the ground or was this an
45:53
Speaker 2: isolated incident.
45:56
Speaker 15: No, we went to several events in the same rock
45:59
Speaker 15: star event.
46:00
Speaker 12: Right.
46:01
Speaker 15: There's a real cross section of people with them without money.
46:04
Speaker 15: But the reality is everyone's saying the same thing. It's
46:07
Speaker 15: tough out there, whether you're in Victoria or Queensland. People
46:10
Speaker 15: are struggling, and that includes those with a bit of
46:12
Speaker 15: extra cash up their sleeve. They're not going out doing
46:15
Speaker 15: the glamorous expenditure like they would normally and largely that's
46:19
Speaker 15: been driven by fuel costs and costs of living.
46:23
Speaker 2: Nicole, you'll legally trained, and I am conscious that obviously
46:26
Speaker 2: we want to ensure that Ben Robert Smith gets a
46:29
Speaker 2: fair trial in all of this. But I just spoke
46:32
Speaker 2: to Glenn Colem. It's about his arrest, and of course
46:35
Speaker 2: we saw that he made himself a statement over the
46:37
Speaker 2: weekend he.
46:38
Speaker 3: Referenced the nature of his arrest.
46:40
Speaker 2: And I know you've looked at this closely, and we're
46:43
Speaker 2: all pleased to say he got bail on Friday, because
46:46
Speaker 2: otherwise he might well have been in jail for a
46:49
Speaker 2: number of years ahead of any likely trial. But what
46:53
Speaker 2: have you made of the last ten or so days, Nicole.
46:57
Speaker 16: Well, Peter, it's absolutely shocking. As I've said publicly and
47:02
Speaker 16: certainly on my social media, I don't see how Ben
47:04
Speaker 16: Robert Smith can get a fair trial. Ten years, three
47:08
Speaker 16: hundred million dollars, the ADF, the OSI, the AFP, the DBP,
47:12
Speaker 16: he is at end the might of the mainstream media.
47:16
Speaker 16: We know exactly who they are. I just don't see
47:18
Speaker 16: how he can get a fair trial. The nature of
47:21
Speaker 16: his arrest was absolutely disgraceful. And you know you've done
47:26
Speaker 16: an excellent job of covering all of that, Peter. But
47:29
Speaker 16: I think we have serious questions to answer and our
47:32
Speaker 16: leaders have serious questions to answer about what is fair
47:36
Speaker 16: access to justice in our nation and the comments earlier
47:39
Speaker 16: about the pressure that the ic C may have brought
47:42
Speaker 16: to bear on this matter is deeply concerning and quite frankly,
47:46
Speaker 16: we need to get ourselves out of that as quickly
47:48
Speaker 16: as we possibly can.
47:51
Speaker 2: Nicole is quickly well, Kistarma survive.
47:56
Speaker 16: I don't think it looks like you will, Peter. I
47:58
Speaker 16: mean this has been dragging on. This scandal has been
48:00
Speaker 16: dragging on for what almost a couple of months now,
48:04
Speaker 16: so I don't see how he can. His numbers are
48:07
Speaker 16: terrible and honestly, if the UK Labor Party want any
48:11
Speaker 16: hope of staying in power, they need to get rid
48:13
Speaker 16: of him and find a new leader.
48:16
Speaker 3: Hey, quick comment, James.
48:17
Speaker 2: We met your bloke on Thursday night here on Kredlin
48:20
Speaker 2: David Farley running for Farah.
48:22
Speaker 3: What's the word?
48:25
Speaker 15: Well, he's doing well. Look you can look at poling,
48:28
Speaker 15: but at the end of the day we're three weeks away.
48:31
Speaker 15: I am really puzzled why the National Party put us
48:34
Speaker 15: at number five on their out of oak Card and
48:36
Speaker 15: the Liberal Party won't tell us where they put us,
48:38
Speaker 15: but then they are considering putting Millthorpe ahead of him.
48:41
Speaker 15: It's just I'd love to see the Liberals come.
48:47
Speaker 3: I gotta go.
48:47
Speaker 2: I'm got to throw to Andrew, but God forbid anyone
48:49
Speaker 2: puts Millthorpe anywhere close to the top of the ticket.
48:52
Speaker 3: I'll leave it there. Thank you both. That's it. Don't miss.
48:55
Speaker 2: I'm going to say that's it for me, but don't
48:56
Speaker 2: miss tomorrow night. Please, Peter Costello Anniversary for Australia.
49:01
Speaker 3: Say your name
49:05
Speaker 11: Mhm