Latest / Book Flood Podcast / Encore Summer 2026: Jerry Craft (E67)
Transcript
- Thomas Nixon: Welcome to the Book Flood podcast. I am your host, Tom Nixon. My guest today is Jerry Craft Jerry is an African-American cartoonist and children's book illustrator best known for his graphic novels, New Kid, Class Act, and School Trip. He is the winner of the 2020 Newbery Medal, the 2020 Coretta Scott King Author Award, and the 2019 Kirkus Prize. Welcome, Jerry. Jerry Craft: Thanks, Tom. Thanks for having me. Thomas Nixon: Absolutely excited to have you here. Why don't we start talking a little bit about what your career was like before the books? Jerry Craft: So I've always loved to draw. And when I was a kid, wanted to grow up to be the next great artist of Spider-Man or Silver Surfer or something like that. Always a big Marvel fan, hated to read books, ended up going to the School of Visual Arts. And while I was there, was never able to get into any of the cartooning classes. Because I was a big Marvel guy, I didn't really know about Harvey Kurtzman and Will Eisner and how legendary they were. So by the time I always got to sign up for them, like they were full. So I ended up becoming an advertising copywriter. So when I graduated for about a dozen years, I worked at ad agencies where I wrote copy and newspaper ads and things like that. And then from there, I worked as an assistant with a woman named Barbara Slate. And I did background art on books for her. There was a series we did called Sweet 16 for Marvel Comics. And I did some work on New Kids on the Block series with Harvey Comics for Barbara. And then from there, went to King Features Syndicate where I wrote brochures for some of their popular comic strips like Beedle Bailey and Hey, Got the Horrible and Tiger. Developed my own comic strip while I was there called Momma's Boys. Got that syndicated weekly through King. And then my last full-time job was editorial director at the Sports Illustrated for Kids website where I learned to do flash animation, which is pretty cool. And then I just started publishing my own books because I could not. find the publisher who wanted to take a chance on me. So in 1997, I published my very first book, which is Momma's Boys as American Sweet Potato Pie, which was a collection of my comic strip. And like I said, I could not get a publisher interested in this. And not only did I get rejection letters, but I got like offensive rejection letters, like not only, Are we not interested, but basically no one's going to be interested and, you know, good luck out there. Cause, ⁓ your idea of getting this published is pretty, pretty thin. And so that's why I started my own publishing company in 2017. And then over the next two decades helped to publish maybe two dozen. ⁓ no more than that. I would say maybe 25. children's books for other authors. In 2014, I got my first big break, which is illustrating a book called The Zero Degree Zombie Zone for Scholastic. And then in 2017, signed with Harper Collins to do my New Kid graphic novel. And that had been turned down maybe five times previously to Harper taking a chance on me. And the rest is... Thomas Nixon: Mm. Jerry Craft: Literally history. Thomas Nixon: That's so funny that people want to make sure that you know that your books are never going to get published and sometimes you just have to go out and prove people wrong. Jerry Craft: Yeah, you like you get the form letters and I understand that because they have so many people who they reject. But this person actually took the time to write a write a specific note. Dear Jerry Craft, thank you for your interest. You know, you would think what you were doing would be interesting, but basically it's not. you know, the the idea of you getting published with this is probably not ever going to happen. And I was like, wow, that's kind of mean, you know? And that was when I gave up on ever trying to be traditionally published. And I didn't think about it for maybe 20 years afterwards. Thomas Nixon: I've been published both ways and there is an advantage to being able to control your own destiny for sure. Jerry Craft: Yeah, I learned a lot and, you know, I learned to really hustle. And I think that, you know, right now it's the best of both worlds because not every publisher even knows how to promote your book to your specific fan base, you know. And in the case of New Kid, you know, that senses on an African American boy. Like there were a lot of places where I went, like the Schomburg Black Comic Book Festival and all the bookstores that I already had a relationship with that some of these big publishers might not know about, or even, you know, doing t-shirts and, you know, cards and... You know, I always branded with hats and like a phone case and, know, so I still have that kind of, idea of being still being an independent guy and having to promote my own stuff, which really does make a big difference. Cause a lot of times people think that, you know, they get with a scholastic or penguin that, you know, they don't have to do anything. ⁓ But the more you do, the better. Thomas Nixon: My first realization when I was published by a mid-sized publisher was, they do promote books. Probably their top 5 % of authors and they do all sorts of things for them, but you gotta hustle otherwise if you wanna sell any books. Jerry Craft: ⁓ yeah. I mean, and obviously I've been fortunate because especially winning the Newbery, you know, that just opened up so much. But it's so funny of like going to like Book Expo or ALA now as Jerry Craft, you know, the award winning author. It's so much different than you know, when I used to go and stand on lines to get like a wimpy kid signed or an Angie Thomas book signed, you know, and now to actually go there. And I still just out of, know, because I'm used to stand online until someone sees me like, Jerry, come on, come on, you don't have to stand on line. Like, yeah, I'm not going to cut in front of all these people. But they usually grab me and make me do it. I'm like, ⁓ So some things I'm used to, some things I'm not used to. Thomas Nixon: How did you come up with the idea for New Kid? Jerry Craft: So one of my things is when I was a kid, I absolutely hated to read books. So even with my vivid imagination, if you had ever told me that I would end up being a New York Times bestselling author or any author, even just an author in general, I would have never imagined it. Because most of the books When I was a kid that had African-American characters, was slavery, civil rights, police interaction, you know, or escaping from prison or just, you know, like one of those kinds of things. And I just never wanted to do that. And so I thought about what my life was like and the interesting parts of my life. My fish out of water story was basically going every day from Washington Heights, which is mainly African-American and Latino, and going to a prestigious high school in Riverdale. And so it was literally like going to two different planets, each day going from Washington Heights to Riverdale and back home. They just couldn't have been more different. Thomas Nixon: Hmm. Jerry Craft: And I just thought of that and how being the new kid never stops. know, like you go to school, you're the new kid. You go to next school, you're the new kid. You go to college, you're the new kid. You get a job, you're the new kid. You become an author, you're the new kid. You know, moving to a new neighborhood. And I just think that that was something that a lot of people could relate to. And I took Thomas Nixon: Hmm. Jerry Craft: the most interesting parts from my life as well as from my two sons lives in order to make a book that would appeal to the biggest market. Thomas Nixon: So tell us a little bit about the books after New Kid. New Kid got you started and then. Jerry Craft: Yeah, so New Kid, so this came out in 2017. No, I got the contract from HarperCollins in 2017. And I worked on it like every day from January 2017. And I finished it. I turned it in February of 2018. So it took like 13 months of like 15 hour days because The hard, the first book of a series is always the hardest for me because it's the most intensive because you have to, you know, what's the character's name? Does he have brothers? Does he have sisters? Does he have a cat? Does he have a dog? You know, does he with his mom, his dad? You know, what are their names? What school they go to? What's his favorite color? Like I try to think about that as much as possible. And then once you lay down the foundation, ⁓ then it's easier to, to put on the other stuff, you know, and then at the end, you know, you're going in and make sure the tiles are nice and there are all the little details and, know, the colored lights and, know, and so that was the most difficult, ⁓ doing that first one. And then when that started getting, ⁓ notoriety, Harper asked me to do two more books, not necessarily sequels, but that was something that I really wanted to do because again, I just had never grown up with any African-American characters that were household names, like a Greg Hefley from Wimpy Kid, or Percy Jackson, or Harry Potter. And I thought that the only way that I could do that properly was to do those same characters in all three books. So in October of 2020, I released the second one, Class Act. So this one only took about eight months to do, but it was also during COVID where like nobody was leaving their house. So I literally sometimes worked until the sun was coming up. the next morning and like didn't even realize that I had stayed up all night to do it. And then I finished that in June of 2020 and it was actually in the bookstores by October. So there was like only a four or five month turnaround. Yeah, they, was amazing. So new kid, I waited a year. Class act was only about five months. Thomas Nixon: That's quick. Jerry Craft: to be printed. But it was written, almost completely written before winning the Newbery and the Credit Scott King. So I didn't have that pressure of like, how do I follow this book that made history? Then when it came time to do the third book, Then there was a little pressure because now it's like, okay, so now I'm following New Kid and Class Act. Both were number one New York Times bestselling books. How do I top that? And so my concept was, when you're doing a series, one of the harder things is you have to make it similar enough where it seems like it's part of the series. Thomas Nixon: Hmm. Jerry Craft: but you have to make it different enough where it doesn't seem redundant. Like, okay, they're just, you know, it's the same thing over and over again. So in this case, what I did was I kept all the characters, but I decided to change the setting. So that's why with school trip, I had the kids go to Paris. You know, the other thing that was different, when I was working on this is not only following those two books, but also the whole book banding thing had taken root. And so now it's like, I'm conscious of the things that people were looking for in order to be angry and stay angry. So now I'm like, do I? edit myself, do I keep doing what I'm doing that I know that certain people will not like? And I just decided to be true to my fans. you know, they're banning the first two books, then it's almost a guarantee that the third one would get in trouble too, which it really hasn't, which is surprising. I guess they just like picking on new kid. So. Thomas Nixon: Mm. Jerry Craft: So those are the three. So for now, I'm going to take a break from the series. And I have like so many other ideas for books that are in my head that it's hard to sleep at night sometimes. Thomas Nixon: So I've read all three of your books and I knew from following you on social media that you were getting some pushback. I have no earthly idea why. I mean, some of the things, I can read them and go, okay, I don't agree with them, but I understand the thought process. Your books speak to all kids. I don't know what the issue might be, but well, there's a certain group of folks that perhaps don't appreciate that your books are focused on African American students. Jerry Craft: Yeah, and which is so weird because, you know, if it had been this way my entire life, and I felt like people were trying to protect me when I was a kid of what might have been triggering. But that never happened. You know, so I grew up reading, you know, the Tom Sawyers and the Huck Fins and there was no one like me that was ever living their best life, but that was okay. It was like, suck it up, you know? And now that kids who never saw themselves have grown up to write their own stories because they had to, because no one else is writing these stories. Now you get the pushback and that is what is so unfair. to a degree, you know, but it is what it is. And, you know, it's one thing to actually have places say, well, we're gonna cancel your school visit or, you know, we're going, we don't want your books in our library, but you know, when you get emails, that's like, you know, I'm gonna kill you or I'm going to burn your books. and then kill you. I'm like, well, at least buy the books from an independent bookstore. So at least do something good before you do something bad. So I mean, that's something like, do they really think that I was sitting down like, I'm going to sit down and create a book that is going to indoctrinate kids? Thomas Nixon: Right. Jerry Craft: into like what, like kindness and empathy. know, like I don't understand, you know, I'm a dad, you know, I coach baseball, I worked at Sports Illustrated for kids, like my whole life has been of service to kids, you know, and. to think that without ever talking to me or doing the research or with no history behind it, to automatically assume that I have this like other thing behind my intent, other than letting kids see themselves is, you know, I mean, it's sad. It's sad that I can't imagine what it would be like living like that. But I'm going to keep doing my books because at six o'clock this morning, as you know, I did a Zoom to kids in Oman, which is like near Dubai. And they were fans. And I've been to Kenya. And I've been to all these different countries and done Zooms with kids in New Zealand. And to see my book in like, you dozens of different languages is just pretty amazing. And that does offset the people here that just want to scream and shout because it gives them something to do. Thomas Nixon: It's the same or similar group that wants to talk about critical race theory, except it has nothing to do with your books per se. also, it's not anything that anybody's doing at the... 10th grade level, fifth grade level. Jerry Craft: Yeah, I mean, I had to Google critical race theory when when I found out that they were banning me, they said critical race theory and Marxism, which I don't even think that they can explain how it's Marxist. And I'm like, are you talking Karl Marx? Are you talking Groucho Marx? Are you talking Harpo, Zepo? Thomas Nixon: Right. It may be closer to Groucho Marx, I'm thinking. Jerry Craft: Right, exactly. So they just hear these things, but, then they, it's just like, you know, Pavlov with the, just, you know what I mean? And it's just like, there are even people that want to ban graphic novels because they think that it is, it means that it's a novel with graphic content. as opposed to being a big old comic book. So like, I don't want my kids reading these graphic novels. It's like, okay, slow down, do a little research. Actually, maybe get one, read it. You know, because no one has ever said, my kid read New Kid and was offended by it. You know, there are no focus groups that I've been aware of. You know, what I get a thousand times more is, you know, my kid never read a book and not only did he read your book, he read it five times and now he's starting a book club at his school. You know, so that's the stuff that matters to me. Not, you know, one person in Texas or Florida that just decides that, ⁓ they don't want. their kid who is two that when they grow up, they don't want them to read New Kid in eighth grade as a summer read, which this is like, makes no sense to me. Thomas Nixon: So what's next? You've done these three books. You have some ideas. Any idea where this is going though? Jerry Craft: So I'm going to take a break from New Kid temporarily. There is a New Kid live action movie that we're working on that hopefully will start shooting next year. That's what we're aiming for. It's LeBron James Springhill Company in conjunction with Universal Studios. So that will be big. In the meantime, I just am working on the last finishing stages of a book that I am working on with fellow Newbery medal winning Kwame Alexander, and that is called J vs. K. And so it is about two fifth graders. There is J, who is an artist, and K, who is a writer. And every year their school has a storytelling contest and they both want to win it badly. So they become like bitter rivals and it's more of a wimpy kid style book, not a graphic novel. And that will be out from Little Brown Books for Young Readers, May 6th, 2025. So May of next year that will be out. I've just seen. a bound manuscript for the first time, which is pretty awesome. And then, like I said, getting our stuff together, whether you're going to be with Team J or Team K. So Tom, because I'm doing this, you're automatically Team J, just to say. Thomas Nixon: Team J, Team J. Although I have to tell you, I love me some Kwame too. Jerry Craft: I mean, I guess someone has to. So I mean, I get it. Right, exactly. But, you know, and one of the big things about that is that you can be rivals, but also support each other. Like these are actually his glasses. You know, he's got a line of glasses, and they're pretty cool because they actually have, see the quotation marks on them? Thomas Nixon: True, true. I mean, not like Team J though. Seriously. ⁓ that's neat. Jerry Craft: Right? So even though most people don't realize it, he's really talented and funny and a nice guy, you know? But that's the thing. It's like you can be rivals, but still root for someone. Like now everyone is like, you got to like LeBron or Michael Jordan. You got to like this one or that one. I'm like, no, I'm going to choose to like them both. You know, like. I'm not going to get to a fist fight because you like Jordan and I like LeBron. I look at it as like in my lifetime, I got to see two of the greatest basketball players ever and Magic Johnson and Larry Bird and Kobe. What's the fight about? And so this is the message that we want to show kids and adults because adults are worse, unfortunately. And by tuning up and we're going to have a boss that's going to, you know, have the characters on the side. We'll do a little tour and stuff. So it'd be a lot of fun. Thomas Nixon: For sure. How did the book come about? Do you share a publisher or just you two talking or? Jerry Craft: Yeah, I thought of the idea a few years ago. And every time I approached him with it, he said, no, he wasn't interested. And then we started going at each other online, just teasing each other. And we got such a big following over that, which is really funny. And so the fact that we start getting competitive. He won a Newbery in 2015, I won in 2020. We both won like the Coretta Scott King honors. So we do compete, our books compete. We're very competitive. We play basketball, against each other, we play pickleball. We just go at each other, but with respect and kindness and friendship. And so I was like, you know what? ⁓ I'm just going to write the first chapter. So I called him up one day and read him the first chapter. And I'm like, now what are you going to do? You know, like once you write the second chapter. And then he got what I was saying and he came back with that second chapter and just knocked it out the box. And I'm like, okay, it's on. And then we just, we just did it. You know, and it was a lot of fun. It was a little nerve wracking conceptually because I've never worked with anyone like that. But I wrote the J chapters, he wrote the K chapters, and then we went back and added and subtracted. And it was really seamless and a lot of fun. And we even go at each other in the book. as authors, not just as the kids. so it's just a lot of fun. And I can't wait for it to come out and we can do the tour together. Thomas Nixon: That's going to be amazing. I would imagine that you have some crossover in audiences, but also you each have your own followers. That's going to be, I would think, a big book. Jerry Craft: Yeah, I mean, I don't like that you snuck crossover in there. I see what you did, But yeah, I do think that a lot of crossover fans, and you know what's funny? So when he did crossover as a TV show, actually shamed him into giving me a walk on part in the show. So there is a scene in the gym. where the kid makes the last shot and you see me in my new kid's shirt waving in the stands, which is pretty funny. So I'll have to see if I can get him in the new kid movie. But yeah, we do have a lot of fans that are both of ours. And I think that together we've created something that's really special. Thomas Nixon: Is there a book or a series of books from your childhood that still resonates with you? Jerry Craft: You know, I was not a reader as a kid. You know, I have every Marvel comic I've ever bought. Still, I've got like 5,000 comics. just completed the entire Silver Surfer set, which is a big deal for me, the first 18. But I have no books. Like I went from Dr. Seuss to Marvel Comics to nothing. So I have no books from my childhood that resonate with me except for see that in 11th 12th grade, the first book of any substance that I read that did not feel like homework was Great Expectations by Charles Dickens. And that was the first like three or 400 page book that I actually read, finished it and enjoyed it. And I was stunned that I could read a 400 page book. And that was kind of what gave me the confidence that I could be a reader. But well into adulthood, reading was more for information, not for enjoyment. Like I could read a 400 page book on how to use Adobe Photoshop or how to invest in real estate. But I would never sit down and say, hey, you know what, I'm going to read this book. know, when I had my sons were little, I made sure that they were readers. So I remember reading this, but not buddy by Christopher Paul Curtis to them. And that was the first time I had seen myself in a book. you know, as this young African-American kid. And I had no idea what these stickers even meant. But I remember going back to my kid's library and saying, hey, you got any more of these books with these stickers on? You know, little did I know that, you know, 10 years later, my book would be the second book to win the Newberry Medal and the credit Scott King Author Award. But yeah, other than that, it was just. Basically comic books. Thomas Nixon: I read a lot of comic books too. A lot of comic books. So what are you reading now? Jerry Craft: So, I just, there is a graphic novel by Tony Weaver, Junico Weirdo. That is excellent. It's a graphic novel. I just did a, in conversation with James Ponte down here in Orlando. And that was for his book, which is called The Sherlock Society. which is very good. And I did a, I did the CXC, Cartoon Crossroads Columbus. And I got my copy of Mouse signed by Art Spiegelman, which I've been trying to get it signed by him for like 30 years. So that was really pretty cool. It's so difficult because when I... Thomas Nixon: ⁓ wow. Jerry Craft: have downtime, you know. So when I have downtime, I don't have downtime, you know what I mean? Like it's drawing, it's writing, it's signing book plates, it's coming up with character design. So what would have been my reading time, like even when I'm on an airplane. If I'm flying from Orlando to California, that used to be six hours that I could read or something. But now I have an iPad so I can sketch out some pages. So basically, most of my book consumption now is through audiobooks. Unless I get asked to do a Thomas Nixon: Mm. Jerry Craft: cover blurb and then I have to physically read the books because usually the audio book's not released yet. So I have to read that. Or if I'm going to do a panel, like if I'm do a panel with Jason Reynolds or Elizabeth Acevedo, I try to read their books so that when I do the panel, I can relate and ask questions. Thomas Nixon: Well, I want to thank you so very much, Jerry, for coming on the podcast. We will have links in the show notes to all your good stuff. Also, please like, share, and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast. Again, thank you, Jerry. Jerry Craft: My pleasure. enjoy doing the, we can call it the Tom and Jerry show. Thomas Nixon: ⁓ there you go. Jerry Craft: Good.