Latest / The Ambitious Coach Lab / Coaching Beyond the Accountability Chart: The Hidden Dynamics of Family Businesses with Sara B. Stern

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Coaching Beyond the Accountability Chart: The Hidden Dynamics of Family Businesses with Sara B. Stern · The Ambitious Coach Lab

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Ambitious Coach Lab, Powered by Nightmare.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Cam Law.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we explore the real tactics, tough conversations, and breakthrough moments that drive coaching success.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Let's jump into today's episode.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello, friends.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I am so excited to welcome Sarah B.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Stern with us.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: We are so pumped to have you, Sarah.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: You are an expert EOS implementer.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: You are the expert within family businesses.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: You are a legend in the community.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was just joking before we even hit start here that I even knew that before I even knew you pretty well.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's definitely your claim to fame here in the community.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you also go by Sarah B.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Stern, which is a sentence.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't you kick it off and tell us a little bit about that?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love the fact that my name is a sentence.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: People joke, I'm not very good at being Stern, but it is my name.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess it's my goal.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: My name is my goal.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it's got to live up to it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I fail at that every single day.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why don't you kick it off and tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey into becoming an implementer and kind of being known as the family business expert?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I came um to EOS from running a family business center, actually.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in Minnesota running the center.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I thought of myself as the person who protected the family businesses from the flavor of the month consultant who wanted to meet them and get access to all of them.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then they started talking about this book, traction, and their level 10s and their rocks and how it was helping them get along better as a family.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, I was trying to create a system that I was trying to teach in the classes that I taught as well.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading Patrick Lencioni and Jim Collins.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I picked up traction, I was like, thank God someone else did the work.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: It is done.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I started talking about it a lot more.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I started implementing it while I was still at the Family Business Center.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I took the leap after that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I came into the community and people, when I started there, I was in the boot camp with the 100th EOS implementer.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was one QCE.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was just all of us in one room, trying to figure out our clients, discussing and debating things.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And people would get up and roll their eyes and talk about family business this and family business that.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I raised my hand and said, Stop rolling your eyes.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the businesses on this planet are family businesses.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: We need to figure this out.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just kept talking about that and talking about that and talking about that.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then here we are.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So man, you see, so wow, that's really cool.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Your boot camp was like within the hundreds.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you could have you could be the hundredth if you claim it, I guess.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's so funny.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, tell me which one was the one.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I keep asking that.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So one of us was the one.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: We were in Gino's office.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think we were one of the last boot camps to be trained in his office.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's so cool.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's a I was around um employee 90 at 90.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's like my claim to fame.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we got to claim it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna claim it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: You were the hundredth implementer, and I was the 90th employee at 90.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're claiming it, Abbott.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: That is what happened.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's official as of today.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's funny.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that I mean, you've seen a lot of change in the community then.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's you know, it's coming up on creeping up on, I feel like close to a thousand here.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe not quite that far big yet, but I mean, you're coming up on that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there's we're getting close to 10x in size.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Next month it'll be 11 and a half years.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: For any implementers who are listening to this, back in the olden days, there wasn't happy hour.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there was one happy or there was one QCE, and there wasn't happy hour.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: You actually had to sit down at a table and eat dinner with seven other, six other implementers.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: You had somebody on your left, you had somebody on your right, and you were stuck.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you had to find a way to have conversation.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm being silly.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, it's super easy to have conversation with implementers.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was intimidating.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's still intimidating to be in the community and be surrounded by these incredible people and you know, think, gosh, am I delivering the kind of experience that that person is or that person is or that person is?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating because I feel like a lot of people would probably look at you with that mindset of like, but you still see yourself as like just almost the brand new, kind of like, oh, am I a part of it?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in a lot of ways.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I've been around, I'm a heck of a lot more comfortable in these rooms than I was in the beginning.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm learning something every time I go to a Monday morning call, every time I'm with a client, every time I'm in a session, every time I'm at QCE, when I'm at the conference.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, how about that?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's um, there's some workshops that people do.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And at some point in my experience, I created a video to be shared in that.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was probably an implementer for five years or so when I realized I was teaching how to set rocks wrong.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's really embarrassing.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's like, ah, what, you know, am I am I delivering what my clients need?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Am I delivering the kind of experience that everybody else is delivering?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still wondering that after 11 and a half years.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: We talk a lot about I would call that competency mastery.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have I I see in the best coaches this hunger and desire to just keep getting better.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that is such a testament to you and a lot of those in that era.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: You guys just have a level of um grit and just resilience.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing to I've been able to talk to quite a few in that kind of era, and I can just see that.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's definitely something that's kind of a common thing.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So let's transition into family business aspect.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, you're you're dealing with, and you already had some experience kind of going into that.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, family businesses, I automatically think, you know, the worst possible, you know, it's just like the conflict or the potential conflict.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got brothers or sisters or parents or lower levels of employees.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how how do you navigate that as a coach when you go in there where there's already probably undercurrents of just potential conflict or tensions that are going on?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: How do you navigate that as a coach?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: That there's a couple things I do.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, one is this family business has a reputation for being super intense and super dysfunctional and super dramatic.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hollywood loves it, HBO loves it, um, reality TV loves a good family business story.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and some of that is true.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason that it exists.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say, what I see with my own eyes over and over is not what Hollywood is sharing.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's people who are super dedicated, they're willing to sit down, they're willing to have hard conversations, um, they're doing the hard work.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, on some level, I don't I don't know that I'm bringing something super special other than I'm not walking in the room assuming it's crazy.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm walking in the room assuming I'm spending time with some of the bravest people on the planet, uh, that they have good intentions, that they come with generations of history behind them.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact is everybody has that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I often tell other implementers, you might feel like you have a really dysfunctional family on focus day, because what you actually have is a group of people who are willing to say the hard things.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a room of people who aren't related to each other, they'll play nice.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas family members are willing to say, I disagree with you.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're at a level that other teams might take nine or 12 months to get to that point.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Family businesses are just there on day one.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's so that's so true.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: I never thought about that because you do have that.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I would almost instead of trust, I would almost just call it the relational capital that's been there for I mean, since day one, really.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's yeah, that's so the flip side of that coin though probably becomes those situations where maybe there isn't performance or accountability conversations, that probably that probably amplifies it in a much more challenging way.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I it certainly can be.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it can be so hard.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, people thinking, I can't go tell my uncle he's not doing a good job.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell my dad.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell my sibling, that kind of thing.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the cool, cool thing though, with running on EOS is we get to do something that a client of mine years ago said is we get to blame EOS.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not personal.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not picking on you.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not because I'm the little brother or the older sister, it's because we together committed to run on EOS.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And because of that, we have to have this excruciatingly hard conversation.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, it's hard.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's so hard, but EOS makes it a lot easier.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, in this season, if you will, of the Ambitious Coach Lab, I really wanted to get a little bit more kind of stories from the session room, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a situation where you saw a family dynamic play out in challenging, but then turned in a very positive way where it was like, oh wow, you know, whether it's parent or what whatever the situation is, but just kind of turned around in a positive light.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you have seven or eight hours?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I could go on and on and on.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: The the floor is yours.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am in 11 and a half years of this, I would say every single quarter, there's been at least one highlight of a massive turnaround um in the session room.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll tell you one.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite one.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um it sometimes makes me tear up when I think about it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: We were on, we were in focus day, we were trying to figure out the accountability chart.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the kids was saying, I think I'd be really good at running the sales team.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on the team, I'm good at being consistent.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: I understand what they're going through.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think they respect me.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were really making a case that they would be good at it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the dad kept saying, Well, I don't know, I don't know.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I could see this next generation person started like they were deflating.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: They were just getting smaller and smaller.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, I don't I didn't understand what was going on.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And finally I said, Can you help me understand?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are you to the dad?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are you giving your feedback because you're a colleague who doesn't necessarily think that this person gets it, wants it, or has the capacity?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you saying this as a dad?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he started to tear up and said, I'm saying this as a dad.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel that I as a dad spend enough time with her being a dad and with her siblings because I was too busy trying to wrangle the sales team.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want that to happen to her.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: She has little kids.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then we all got teary.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was a really big moment.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then we went back to does this person get the job, want the job, have the capacity?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it was an absolute yes, yes, yes.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what what was unfortunately starting to happen before that focus day is this daughter thought, my dad doesn't believe in me, my dad doesn't have faith in me.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why my dad doesn't have faith in me.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: My dad's not proud of me, right?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: All those kinds of thoughts.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, it she was able to see he has extreme faith in her.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's just worried it's gonna take over her life.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it was amazing.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: My my dad always has this saying where he says, people are far more complex than our overly simplistic perception of them.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's such a good example of that, that it wasn't necessarily what was perceived on the front end.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually a much deeper, yes, familial kind of thing.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of ties into you have this three-circle model, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Of family business that you utilize.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, I want to make sure I get it right.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Family ownership, excuse me, family ownership and business.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me about how that framework kind of helps.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe in this situation or or just more generally, I mean, I'm sure it applies to the situation, but talk about how you utilize that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am that is a model that came from Harvard.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people give me credit.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot take credit for this, except I can maybe take credit for helping it be a little more famous than it would have been on its own.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: But which is a big thing in and of itself.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll take credit for that.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And now the the third, the 100th implementer, and I've I'm the marketing department for the three-circle model.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is a big day.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is a big day for you.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very big day.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: I need to take a nap when this is over.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the three-circle model of family business, you can Google it, it's all over the internet, um, is just like you said, it's three circles, it's a Venn diagram, they all overlap in the middle.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's family, it's business, it's ownership.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what often happens in a family business is dad comes to work with his kids instead of the owner coming to work with some colleagues.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when I hopefully teach other implementers and for sure, hopefully teach my clients, when I teach them to think of those as three different circles, I even will talk about them as three different tables.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: That the family circle is the is the kitchen table.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the business circle is the conference room table, and the owner circle is the boardroom table.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And in EOS, I'm at the conference room table.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not at the boardroom.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: There are no owners in the room, even though there might be people who have happen to be an owner.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't have owners who can run around and say, well, it's it's my business, do what I say.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have that in an EOS session room or a level 10.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and technically we don't have siblings.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't have family members.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: We have colleagues.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have colleagues working to run a business and run it according to what the owners want.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the owners only get to say, here's the money we'll put in.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the money we want out of it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the owners get to say, we think that's the right integrator.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they get to say, we think that's the right visionary.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um they get to decide if they want to keep owning it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: They want to get they get to decide if they're gonna sell it and who they will sell it to.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then they don't have many other decisions.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And those kinds of things typically aren't showing up in the session room.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really trying to use that three-circle model to say, if this is a fight between siblings that has nothing to do with the in inside the business, you need to go dupe that out.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: If the owners aren't clear on what they want, you please go get clear on that and then come back and let us know so we can go make that happen.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: How have you I'm sure that was a learning process over time of kind of building that in?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, early on in your coaching career, did you kind of let things go that were maybe more on the family thing or the ownership side?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how like how did that evolve over time?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm sure that took a lot of, I mean, your name, Sarah B Stern.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm sure there are certain situations where you have to be stern in, hey, that's actually a family thing.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: You guys need to handle that outside.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: How have you learned how to navigate that?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I was lucky enough to have that be a tool that I really valued when I came into this work.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I will say probably my learning was um to try to be maybe less black and white about that.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, I was like, this is a family issue, people.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: You got to take it outside.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had a couple of situations in session rooms where people said, we don't know how to do that.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're I we understand that you're saying that, but I don't know how we do that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And there were times where it was like, okay, let's figure it out.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: What do you need to do?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I've probably become slightly less stern on that over time.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say this um bringing that tool in um I think helped me avoid times when I might have been more loosey-goosey on stuff.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I thought, oh my gosh, I'm here to serve this business.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not here to try to fix something that happened when the kids were seven.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even though here's the kind of fun thing, Cam.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I do feel like you get the accountability chart right and you get scorecards going and stuff.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And really we're technically running the business, but it's also fixing some stuff that happened when they were seven and eight years old at the same time.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if I can explain that, but I feel like I watch that happen all the time.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: That makes I mean that makes sense because I mean you probably see the the maturity over time that comes in.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And oh wow, little brother is now making decisions, you know, that are far beyond his reckless teenage years or, you know, whatever the context that they're bringing into that.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, one of the first things that, you know, typically within the EOS process, right, you get into focus day and accountability chart is like one of the things that you lean into right away.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: So talk a little bit about that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Of, I mean, we've kind of touched on it a little bit, but is there a certain way that you navigate that instead of say a non-family business where maybe there is a little bit more of just almost an underlying structure that's in or hierarchy that's in the business that has to do with the family versus the actual accountability chart and how you kind of work with teams on that?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's funny is over the years I've talked to and been lot in lots of conversations with implementers who say, Oh, I do it a little different, or you know, I have my own way that I do it, or I, you know, here I I kind of teach it a little different, that kind of thing.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I often think, what is wrong with me?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why am I such a rule follower?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I and and and I'm not I'm not a very good rule follower, and I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing wrong with me.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the deal the book traction says, here's how you make an accountability chart.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: These are the rules, right?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like they can read the book, they can watch the movie.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not really, but totally.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so and and Gino was working with his own dad in his own family business when he created this.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so my philosophy is I'm gonna do this by the book because the book was actually written for family business owners.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if I fudge it a little bit, they can't blame EOS anymore.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: They can they can't because then they can't open up the book traction and say, see in chapter whatever, this is how we're doing it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's chapter five.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I should know that.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: How embarrassing.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 99% sure it's chapter five.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is how we do it.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: We did it exactly like that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: They can open open up, get a grip, and say, when we went to focus day, this is how it went.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I actually really stick like glue to that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will draw the three-circle model if I feel like the family is accidentally drawing their family tree instead of an accountability chart.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that does happen.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: They will say, like, oh, well, the oldest kid needs to be the visionary.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and then the next kid needs to be the integrator.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the rebel youngest kid needs to run HR.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, the responsible one, or I'm sorry, sales.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the responsible one, well, they're have gonna have to do finance and um HR.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, no, no, no.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, nobody in the family needs to be on the leadership team.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Family businesses tend to get wildly profitable when they let go of the idea that it's the family that needs to run it.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so anyway, I I mean, here's how I answer your question.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mess with it at all.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I just keep it just by the book because I think it helps the family businesses when you just stick like glue to the way it was designed to work.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: The the I mean one of our but mutual good friends, Walt Brown, I mean, he he always says the answer's in the tools, right?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's right so true because the I mean, the people analyzer alone from a core value standpoint and the GWC, which we've already talked about, yes, those things alone really are okay, do you get the job?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want the job?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have the capacity for the job?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully your core value fit, but let's let's verify that.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, so I mean that alone really allows you to build it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I can understand how you could go into it and almost lean more into the family hierarchy that would actually be do the opposite of what you want it to, instead of just letting the tool do the work, regardless of the emotional undercurrents that are kind of happening.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really I actually really appreciate it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: I that was not the direction I thought you were gonna go, but that actually makes way more sense.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people have asked me that.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you implement EOS differently?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I do it exactly the way the book traction describes it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So to help the clients out.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's transition a little bit.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do you have an example of a, let's say there's a matriarch or a patriarch of a company, you know, founder that's got decades of building the company and they're on the tail end, they're ready to exit, and they're looking for the next generation of leaders.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: That can obviously that's already an emotional decision, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any experience or stories of companies that have maybe transitioned that down, whether it's through the family or maybe outside of the family?
• 21:59
  unknown: Um
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And EOS is so helpful for that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've worked with founders who said, I want my kid to take over this business.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're working in the business, they're not sure if they want to take it over.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm done working one million hours a day.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so what they did is kept the kid working not on the leadership team.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they brought in an integrator.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: The founder elevated up to the visionary seat and was able to work, you know, 10, 15, 20 hours a week, be gone for six or eight weeks of the year, that kind of thing.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they held the business for a while until they figured it out.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's one example.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had other people who the owner wanted to sell it.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: The kid was trying to say, I want it.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: The owner was saying, you don't want it.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is crazy.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they were willing to wait.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: We got through vision building days one and two, and they realized the the current owner and the next generation, oh my gosh, we have the same vision for this place.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're now really excited about this thing.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, let's go do this together.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen the opposite happen as well.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think a big part of your question is how do we help that founder who's moving out of the seat?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is that part of what you're yeah?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, because it's, I mean, it's obviously an emotional decision to kind of exit a business, no matter what it looks like.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that founder has one set of emotions because they've built it from an idea to being what it is.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: A second generation person has a different set of emotions.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you how many people, second generation owners I know who the business was built, was started the same year they were born.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have seen that over and over.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, why are people having babies and starting businesses?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a that's a that's a lot.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's a busy household.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is insane.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know why so much of that over the years I've seen that's a different set of expectations because this business is almost a it's a sibling to them.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is a sibling.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: They grew up with the business.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Third generation is a whole different set of emotions moving out of it because this is literally their family legacy.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And usually third generation is really focused on I just can't kill the grandpa or grandma's baby.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, how can I hand it off to someone else?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, it's a whole different set of emotions with every generation.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the biggest things that I um see when family businesses run on EOS is they have direct viewpoint to the strength of the leadership team, the strength of the vision and the possibilities there.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it takes a lot of that anxiety out of their interesting life.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing is I have a I have a recipe for family business succession that I wrote.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I say um it takes uh meetings every 90 days, these are ownership meetings, not EO, not EOS meetings, uh, regular meetings every month, every 90 days, um, and about eight years to do it.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's two pages of stuff.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there are several things on there that have been assigned to that outgoing person.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of them is documenting the history of the business is an incredibly big project.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's really important.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: The family businesses that do that now have information they can use in recruiting people.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: They have information they can use in training people, they have information they can use to educate next um generations of the family.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they have a project that that person can do that will take several years.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing I've seen is um I've worked with a couple of businesses that that outgoing founder or outgoing second or third generation person or people have taken on projects with like like they skip a generation.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So grandparent to grandchild.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the most successful version of that that I saw, the family business, it was the second generation owner worked with the fourth generation grandkids and created a spin-off of the business that ended up being more successful than the business.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Huh.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: That was awesome.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I think it kind of annoyed the no doubt, a little competitiveness, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: It got the second generation out of the third generation's hair and created this incredible learning experience for the grandkids and super fun for the grandparents.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would imagine, I mean, the again, a theme that keeps coming up, but the tools of EOS.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, going through and having the vision documented of where we're going.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then even once you get to the process being documented and all that, I have said this time and time again because I've worked kind of in the exit planning space for a little while.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, a company that runs on EOS is so exit ready because typically it's not owner dependent, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and I'm sure you see that even more so in a family dynamic.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've, you know, some of the emotional side of things aside, but being able to get everything, okay, hey, we know where we're going.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: But are there situations where, okay, you've gone through, you know, vision building and we're in the quarterly, you know, we're in the regular pulse where we're going through where I knew whether it's let's just say a third generation comes in and maybe they do have a little bit more of a different vision for the company.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: How do you navigate that?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is it just coming into, all right, you know, in an annual, we're gonna take a look at the vision and we're kind of gonna drop some issues and we're gonna talk about is that how that process works?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's lean in heavy on, again, lean in heavy on the tools, lean in heavy on the process.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: If that third generation has a vision that would require money to go into the business or less money to come out, that can that can be really sticky.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and without EOS, um, it becomes this, oh, that third generation wants to spend my money kind of conversation.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, versus hey, second generation, if I'm the third generation talking, you know, we used to have to take care of, you know, a brother and a sister and their kids.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Now we've got five families in the next generation.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if you really want to do that, this is why I want to invest in the business.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: It gives a platform for this instead of an easily reactionary sort of thing, like, oh I'm I'm trying to retire and you're trying to spend my money.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a that's a legitimate pushback.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's you know, often the pushback is no, I'm trying to feed a whole bunch of people here.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you want that too, let's talk about it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, I'm giving you the dream scenario of back and forth here, but um, but that often is what's underneath these kinds of conversations.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: My brain's just telling me to go this way, so I'm gonna go.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll learn to do this.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let's follow the brain.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Turn right.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, but there I always like asking coaches this because I I'm just fascinated by this.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But are there certain things that you've learned inside the session room that are almost um like easy passes to get like reframe the room?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or hey, you know, all right, we're going down this path that's probably not gonna end well, and reframing it kind of back.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, are there specific phrases that you kind of lean into or specific things that you found just work?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would say there is a thing that I've been told by my clients that I do that works.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um, actually, one of my clients this was one of their core values.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is years ago.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: My client, my one of my clients' core values was seriously silly.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um is my favorite core value ever.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard that before, so that's pretty good.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So great.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: This team was very detail-oriented, they were um processes, they were down to the half a second, and they were also just ridiculous goofballs.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was so great.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this tool in the session room is I take these family businesses and what they're up to very seriously.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they have the opportunity to affect a lot of lives and a lot of generations of their own family.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: If they make a weird move inside my session room, this could affect, you know, not just siblings, but cousins and second cousins for a long time.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I take that very, very seriously.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I also try to bring lightness to the room and remind them that their job is to make a decision today, and the longest they're gonna stick with it is one week until their next level 10.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: So this isn't a forever thing.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't an always thing, this isn't a never thing.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is a let's try it on for now.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do think that helps a lot.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's why I've been able to be successful with family businesses because this this is a really big deal.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't just business, this is family, this is legacy, this is money for a lot of people.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and holy cow, if you take it that seriously, your creativity is gonna be gone, your anxiety is gonna be through the roof, your ability to think and make good decisions is gonna be kaput.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: So balancing those two.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so good.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that as you have talked more about this?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, you have, I mean, borderline, you could argue you, you know, a claim to like promoting the theory of, you know, the um, but do you find that the more that you've talked about that, that's helped you from your business development and your marketing and branding aspect of, I mean, even without knowing you well, I knew that you were the family business coach.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I and so it's it's known in the ecosystem.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, how has that helped you?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's one of the competencies we talk about a lot here on the show is business development.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you got to be able to go out and find clients to do the work of coaching.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so, do you have you found that people find you because of that?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you having to do a lot of outbound?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's uh that is such a tricky question for me to answer.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I got to sit down um for coffee with a new implementer in the last couple months, and he came out of marketing and he said, Sarah, I've never seen a brand more effectively developed than what you've done.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: That was an amazing compliment.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no kidding.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really amazing.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I would say I am still, you know, shaking trees uh to do business development.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here in Minnesota.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I am surrounded by, I think, 40 some other implementers.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: A hot spot.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not the only one here who worked with family businesses.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: By far, I am not the only one.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: I will say there's an area that this has helped me.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: When I, as I said, when I was running the Family Business Center, I was trying to create a system to help run a business a family business more simple.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking about what we could do in the business, and that's what traction ended up doing.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I was also looking at what is a system that would help owners simplify this job of owning an asset together.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had that system in my back pocket.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And after being in the community for a couple of years, other implementers started calling me and saying, I've got an owner's box issue.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Could you help with that?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had several clients over the years.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have never advertised the fact that I do this.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just did a meet and greet with another implementer's um family business this morning on that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Still, I've never done any business development on that.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's helped me with something that's not EOS at all.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still banging the trees on EOS.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: But implementers, I it's Wednesday today, I think.
• 34:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've talked to five implementers this week alone who are having concerns about how they're implementing with their family business clients.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, none of them have said, hey, you need to talk to my client, but but people do on a regular basis say, can you help out my client?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I will spend 90 minutes with any owner group that has questions.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: They don't always want to be a client, but so there's the answer to your question.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am still booking it in BizDev, 11 and a half years in.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: That, you know, it's funny you say that because there that is such a trend that I see.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: The best coaches, they don't stop.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a sure it's a flywheel, you can get it moving and it's kind of running.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, it you've got momentum.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just put it that way.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not like when I started.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you stop, I mean, why'd you stop?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you stop knocking on trees?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, let's uh it's so there's such value to that.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important for younger or newer coaches to hear that from someone that's at your level or or you know, part of your journey as a coach to hear that you're continuing to feel that not pressure, but like, hey, I still need to be out in the community because I'm telling you, the the coaches, I see it so often with new ones.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: They get five or seven and they're like, I can breathe now.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then they stop thinking about it, and then two of them transition off, and then they're like, they're feeling it again, and they have to work twice as hard to get it started again.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: So let's back, let's um do a little bit of reflection back to the early days because you had mentioned this at the beginning of how you had really gone in because you you have such a fun personality now.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And but it sounds like early on it was a little bit of, I mean, just oh, where how where am I where's my place?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do I like find myself as a coach and footing?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: So can you kind of go back to that and just share a little bit of your journey?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was so awkward.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I think back, it's embarrassing.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I um I had built the Family Business Center on um, I was allowed to send one email a month, one blast email a month.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that was it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: That was my budget.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: There was a cost to that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I went and I was all over town and I was talking to people and making phone calls, and it was not effortless, but it came with great ease.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was just natural and obvious.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I became an EOS implementer, and all of a sudden I didn't know how to walk.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was so awkward.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was just, oh, it's like I don't even know who I am.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that was in the rooms where I was accustomed to walking into.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: When I went to QCE, I had this thing where I would um, I'd call my, well, in the very beginning, it was dinner.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was forced to stay there.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I would, I would call my husband afterward and say, Oh my gosh, I think I scared six people away.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was so weird.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm such a weirdo.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it when QCE changed to happy hour, I would call him and say, I stayed for 23 minutes.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, yay, that's exciting.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Before I started to feel like a weirdo, weirdo.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there's, oh, I stayed for 39 minutes.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I stayed for 45.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was like I was so proud of myself.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: But there would be a moment in the night where I'd think, oh my gosh, my weirdo light went on.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: I better get out of here.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: So nobody knows I'm a weirdo.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then I finally realized I am a weirdo.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: I should stop trying to hide it because when I stop trying to hide the fact that I'm a weirdo, then I'm acting like an, you know, a myself.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I stopped being awkward and now I stay forever at happy hour and I can't wait to get to QCE.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's super fun.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel very much at home.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: But man, it was just like I was walking around.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I just saw a gif of a baby giraffe trying to walk.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's awkward.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was me.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: So awkward.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: So awkward.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh that mental picture will be forever glued in my brain now.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I see a baby giraffe, I will think of you.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Go find it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's awkward.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: That was me.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: So awkward.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I appreciate number one, I appreciate you sharing that because I know that's that's vulnerable.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also think that there's probably a lot of newer implementers or newer coaches that feel that.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you go in and you see the big name coaches or you know, the well-known ones, or even, I mean, we live in a social media society and you see all these like really successful Instagram coaches that seems easy for them, and I know it's not, but you know, you see these personalities, so then we feel like we have to mimic that, and we have to go out, and that's the only way to go out there and do that.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then we actually lose the authenticity of who we are as just individuals.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: And let's be honest, as a coach, that's what people hire.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's they hire you, yes, they because they like you.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and if you're someone that you're not in the you know, the performative side of things, it's not it's awkward, it's only gonna come, yeah, exactly.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so why not just be who you are?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the cool things about specifically the EOS community, is that I think it welcomes that there are a whole host of different personalities in the the ecosystem, and that's what makes it fun.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you have the Waltz, you have the Sarah's, you have the JBS's, you have the Justin Moss, you have the Jill Young's, like all of these different, and I would call all of you very different.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you all work together and you all are good friends.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it, and so I think that's what's really special about this community.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I appreciate you sharing that.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that that uh, you know, I know that was it's a lot, it's a journey.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you asked that question.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um every chance I get when I talk with a new implementer, I try to remind them this is not, it is different for me, 11 and a half years in.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not easier.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Some parts are easier.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and boy oh boy is starting hard.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: And please be yourself.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because man, you can smell a person who's trying to be someone else from from a mile away.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I made the mistake of trying to be like a grown-up and a professional.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody who knows me know I fail on both of those.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: So by try.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Sarah this has been awesome.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I want to make sure I because you said something at the beginning, that a majority of the small businesses are family run.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to make sure I give you an opportunity to share a takeaway or a piece of wisdom for other implementers or coaches that are listening that most likely are working with family businesses.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: What is probably, if you had to sum up the, you know, epitome of your knowledge of working with family businesses, what should coaches be aware of when they're they're working with that?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: The number, well, and I want to, I want to give some numbers here for perspective.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Two-thirds of all of the businesses in the United States are family businesses.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is publicly traded and privately.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Two-thirds.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: In Canada, that number is closer to 80%.
• 41:25
  unknown: Wow.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in parts of Latin America, that's 90 or 95%.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's also true in parts of Europe and parts of Asia.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the vast majority of our target market are family businesses.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's how much, that's what I'm talking about.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say the biggest thing that I would say to other implementers is most of the family businesses I've encountered think that their issues are the biggest and the worst.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they are the most abnormal and they are the most broken family business walking around.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I have never, I have not met the most broken, the most hurting, the most dysfunctional family business around.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: There actually are a handful of issues that they all face, and it's very normal that they face them.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if an EOS implementer can be present with that and acknowledge that these are really hard issues and that they're really normal, that will go a long way, a really long way.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm gonna do a bonus one.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of family businesses, not all, but a lot feel that when they go ask for help, that's kind of embarrassing.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like you wouldn't want your therapist to talk about you, like, oh, I worked with Sarah Stern and she came in really messed up and now she's only a little less messed up.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't want your therapist to do that.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: So think about that as an implementer.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you're dropping the name of a family business you work with, the family business you're talking to is gonna think, oh, is she gonna go talk about me somewhere?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And as an implementer, you can still say, I worked with a third generation family business that had three cousins in it.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about that.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but don't, don't necessarily give the names and the address and the industry of your clients.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for sure, not without their permission.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good word because I think that would be easy to, you know, I mean, it's it's like I worked in an advertising agency, right?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's you plaster every single one of your clients on the, you know, it's just like that's just what you do.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I could see that, but that's a really good point.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I had never thought about it that way of like a therapist sharing.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because that is, I mean, and in it it's a more um just intimate um setting that I think you have to be aware of.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a really good word.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate both of those.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: I should say, Cam, too.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've had a family business owner tell me he totally disagrees with me on this opinion.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to do it the way I say it.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but that is my approach because I'm not gonna advertise.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Here's all the family businesses I've worked with.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, unless they give permission, and then I always Say this family business gave me permission to talk about this.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's there's wisdom and erring on the side of caution either way.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's either way, that's a good word.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Sarah, this has been awesome.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: This hour has like flown by.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's been fun to hang out.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: As I I figured it would.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to ask guests two questions kind of on the tail end.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you could go back to rookie Sarah at the beginning of your career as a coach with all the knowledge and experiences that you have now, what advice would you give yourself?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would sing the line from a they might they might be giant song.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's a song um Whispering in the Dark.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a line that says, um, be you, be what you're like, be like yourself.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: I would sing that over and over and over to Rookie Sarah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: That unlocked this whole community for me.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good word.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's spot on.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's woven itself through the episode.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that doesn't surprise me, but I think that's a really good word.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a good challenge to any coach that's starting out.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's all you can be.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if who you are doesn't know who you are, be that.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: So just be that all the way.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Makes life so much easier.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's more fun, it's more fun that way, let's be honest.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then second question, this is if that first one was a little bit more reflective, let's pull it back into kind of current moment.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: What is a lesson that you're in the middle of learning in this current moment?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: I promised myself I'd come and be vulnerable, so I'm gonna be vulnerable.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: In EOS, we um help business owners get what they want from their businesses, right?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we do.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I am in the middle of once again in my life learning how hard it is to know what you want.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is a really hard thing to figure out.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we see our owners do.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: They say, we want this.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then 90 days later, I don't know if I want that.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: At least I see that all the time.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know other implementers see that all the time.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Dang, it's hard to it's hard to stick your finger on that.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I am in the middle of that right now.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's really fascinating.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I don't want to elaborate, but I want to tie it to one of the other competencies.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: If one is mastery, which is consistently learning, the other one that I see kind of on the front end is having a vision for your practice.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of coaches, and I'm I'm going somewhere with this because I think you're actually living this out by you being vulnerable.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I I think a lot of coaches don't even have an understanding of what they're doing with their coaching practice.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, well, I think this is just this would be a cool offering or, you know, a cool thing for me to do.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, tail end of my career, whatever.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the really good ones wrestle through that.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: They figure out their why.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I see that in you just by being vulnerable is hey, let me do that.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the best coaches practice what they preach, where they actually go out and they, whether it's follow EOS, you know, exactly as a solar purduer as you can, but having a understanding of, hey, here's maybe where I want to be in 10 years, in three years, one year, and all that kind of stuff.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: So is that something that you have?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, have you built out your practice like that?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, yes.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: I when I started, and this is 11 and a half years ago, it was about um making a huge amount of ripples, like the ripple effect, which is monstrous as an EOS implementer.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was also my secret VTO was uh have enough clients and have enough sessions that my husband can retire early.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, at boot camp, one of my classmates said, Do you have a sister?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Which I thought was really funny.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um my husband has not retired early yet.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I also realized, oh my gosh, I had little kids at the time.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: I actually don't want to be super full and super crazy.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be there with my kids.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I the the like my husband right retires early or I'm with my kids thing showed up.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I wrestled and wrestled and wrestled with that, and I continue to.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: And the the big question I am facing now is, oh my gosh, do I want this for everyone else on the planet?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: What about for me?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the question I'm I'm trying to answer.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was raised to be looking and you know, how do I serve others?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a really important question.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: And now I'm saying, well, how do I make sure that when I'm serving others, I'm also serving me?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just give, give, give, give, give.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Strangely tricky question to answer.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's a journey.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think all of all of life is, but I I think and again, it's the premise of this show, but you know, building and scaling a coaching practice is a journey, and you're gonna go through iterations, you're gonna have those moments where you hit the ceiling and you gotta either evolve or revolve.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just it's exactly what you teach, you know.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you're you're in that moment.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate your vulnerability in that.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's awesome.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this has been such a fun conversation, Sarah.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: If people want to get in touch with you, what's the best place to find Sarah B.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Stern?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually have that website, Sarah S-A-R-A-B as in boy, Stern, S-T-E-R-N.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: I um I host a family business office hour once a month, and implementers come, owners of family businesses come, uh, family businesses that don't run on EOS come, family businesses that do run on EOS, and even therapists and other family business consultants come.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to see people there.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have a short book that I wrote that helps owners make sense of what they're doing.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and of course, people can find me there to do EOS implementation as well.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will grab, I will get all of that and I will put that in the show notes to make it really easy for people because I think all of those are super valuable.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: But Sarah, thank you for taking the time.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: This has been fun.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I appreciate you diving in and kind of showing us behind the curtain, if you will, of kind of what goes on in the session room with the family business.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then also just you being vulnerable about your journey.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I really appreciate that.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: So my pleasure.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's been fun.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks, Ken.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for tuning in.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you on the next one.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: We got more where that came from.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's it for today's episode of the Ambitious Coach Lab.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: My hope is that something here helps you sharpen your craft and keep building a coaching practice you're proud of.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Before we wrap, a quick thank you to our sponsor, 90.
• 50:53
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• 50:59
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• 51:03
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• 51:10
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• 51:17
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• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's AC20 for 20% off.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for hanging out with me today.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Cam.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Cheering on as you grow your ambitious coaching practice.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.