Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / How High-Achieving Women Can Conquer Burnout

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How High-Achieving Women Can Conquer Burnout · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

• 0:03
  Hello everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Chatting with Experts TV
• 0:08
  show with your host, me, Paula Okonneh, where I bring to you professional women
• 0:15
  and entrepreneurial women from Africa, from the Caribbean, and in the diaspora.
• 0:22
  On a few occasions, I've brought some phenomenal men, but 99
• 0:25
  percent of the time it's women.
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  And the mission of this show is to empower, to educate,
• 0:33
  and inspire women globally.
• 0:36
  So even though my guests are from Africa, the Caribbean, and in the
• 0:40
  diaspora, we are on a global mission.
• 0:45
  The topic today is How To Break Free From Burnout.
• 0:50
  And with me to do that would be Dr.
• 0:54
  Tamara Beckford, who would share some practical strategies on how to break
• 0:59
  free from the cycle of burnout and how to enable you to reclaim your
• 1:06
  energy, your passion, and your purpose.
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  And she's just drawing from years of experience in both medicine and coaching.
• 1:15
  And so she will help you prioritize wellness.
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  Let me tell you a bit about her.
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  Dr.
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  Tamara is a board certified emergency medicine physician.
• 1:28
  She's also an author.
• 1:29
  She's a speaker and she's the CEO of You Are Caring Docs.
• 1:35
  She helps high achieving women break free from burnout so that they in
• 1:40
  turn can restore joy, peace, and have a sense of meaning in their lives.
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  She's been featured on Forbes.
• 1:47
  She's been featured in Yahoo Finance, Voyage, Houston, LinkedIn News,
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  Rule Out Magazine, and KevinMD.
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  In fact, there's so much to say about her.
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  And so I will invite her to come onto the show.
• 2:02
  So welcome Dr.
• 2:03
  Tamara Beckford to Chatting With The Experts.
• 2:08
  Hello, hello, hello.
• 2:09
  Thank you so much for having me.
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  I cannot wait to get into all that we have in store for our audience today.
• 2:17
  Absolutely.
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  And I know they will not be disappointed because just in talking
• 2:22
  with you, I'm like, Whoa, I've got a superstar with me today.
• 2:28
  You have your own podcast, don't you?
• 2:30
  Correct.
• 2:30
  I do have my own podcast.
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  It's named after myself, Dr.
• 2:34
  Tamara Beckford show.
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  And I interview a lot of my colleagues physicians who are doing amazing things
• 2:39
  inside and outside of clinical medicine.
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  And I've had the honor of interviewing almost 300 guests.
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  So far.
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  So it's been a very, very long ride.
• 2:48
  Yes.
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  Wow.
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  Wow.
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  So what got you into this in the first place?
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  I mean, trying to help your colleagues, women in particular.
• 2:59
  Well, it really stemmed from the journey of going into medicine and beyond.
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  When we think about the journey of many of us, I achieve in women,
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  we've really put in many years to get to the point where you are
• 3:16
  considered an expert in your field.
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  And you know, for us in medicine, it's to the point that you are now able
• 3:22
  to graduate and to practice medicine.
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  After doing so for a few years, you start to get the hang of it.
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  You know, you move from novice to feeling a little bit more
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  comfortable to now being, okay, I feel firm in what I know and being
• 3:35
  able to take care of my patients.
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  So that takes roughly like around five or so years, right now between year
• 3:41
  five and 10, when you're feeling super solid, then your mind gets to a point
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  when you're like, well, I feel great about what I'm doing, but I feel like
• 3:52
  there's more that I can off the world.
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  And in 2019, that was me, but I didn't know where to start, you know,
• 4:01
  like, okay, I've been practicing medicine, I know how to do this.
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  And how can I tap into something else that's yearning inside?
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  And obviously, you know, that's something that God puts in
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  a lot of our hearts, right?
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  You're great at this, but guess what?
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  There's more for you out there.
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  In order to get to that point, I had to develop myself beyond medicine.
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  And that's when the personal development portion came in.
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  I started reading more books on personal development.
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  You know, Mel Robbins, Tony Robbins, the Zig Ziglars, and you know, some of
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  the older personal development gurus.
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  And little did I know that was the preparation for something
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  to come, which was 2020.
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  So 2020 hits, the ER doctor, right?
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  And COVID hits.
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  Now, during that time, instead of burning out, I started to excel.
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  And it made no sense because the opposite should have been
• 5:04
  happening during that time.
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  You know, this was a lot of uncertainty, anxiety levels were through the roof.
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  Those who were in healthcare were burning out left and right from constant...
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  the mind drama, so much that we were seeing, taking care of patients.
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  Being afraid for our own health and our family's health.
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  You know, there was so much uncertainty, like, why am I thriving?
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  I said, I don't understand.
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  And it's not that I'm working less.
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  And it's not that I'm giving my patients less.
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  I'm giving my all, but I'm still feeling fulfilled on
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  both ends, at work and at home.
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  As time progressed, I realized it was all of that preparation that I did in 2019.
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  And so as most people, when you figured something out that works for you, you
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  don't want to hold it to yourself, right?
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  It's a light and therefore you remove the lid.
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  You want to shine the light everywhere so everyone can benefit from it.
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  And that's when I started to tap into, okay, let me use some of these skills
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  and just small techniques that has served me so well during some of the
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  darkest times of our most recent years.
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  Let me use that to help others.
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  And that's where all of this came from.
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  Wow.
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  So it was a gift that you had that you didn't even realize.
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  Yes.
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  It was a gift that was being birthed in me, you know, and it really just stemmed
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  from like, Oh, this sounds interesting.
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  Oh, wow.
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  Like I'm digging deeper.
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  And it was an awareness That was brought on that there was more to
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  life than what we're doing now.
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  And the path that we're on, it could be the path towards
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  where we're truly meant to go.
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  So this is when they say that the destination and the journey like
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  this is part of the journey, and therefore, when I was younger I
• 7:06
  thought my destination was medicine.
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  I got there and it was like, oh, but then now I realized that medicine
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  is a bridge to help me to get to the next part of my destination.
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  And that's where we are.
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  I love it.
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  Medicine is the bridge to get to the next part of your destination
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  and realizing that you had this hidden talent, and you could use it.
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  And of course, in the fact that you were in medicine, it even gave you
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  a better idea of, you know, what to look for, what not to look for.
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  And then understanding that burnout was real.
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  Yes, absolutely.
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  And you know, one of the challenge that's occurred during that time is I
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  looked and I saw a lot of my colleagues, and they were truly burning out.
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  You know, if others recall during the time when, you the numbers, it was always like,
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  well, how many new cases do we have today?
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  And for those of us who worked on the front lines, when you had the new cases,
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  you also had to think about the resources.
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  Well, how much resources do we have compared to the new cases?
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  Do we have enough room in the hospital?
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  Do we have enough ventilators?
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  Do we have enough this, have enough that?
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  So, a lot of the data that was provided to help can sometimes
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  cause more of a mental harm, right?
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  So not intentionally, but if you absorb it too much and not put
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  it in the place where it needs to be, then it can really ingrain.
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  So I found my colleagues refreshing the screen, like consistently,
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  like how you'd refresh to see if your pizza got delivered, you know,
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  is it on its way, like they would refresh the screen consistently.
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  And you saw the numbers are going up and it's just like, Oh my gosh,
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  the numbers were going up and you saw the anxiety level heightening
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  and heightening and heightening.
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  Well, for me, I just worked.
• 9:03
  I just, well, the patients are coming in.
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  I'll take care of the patients.
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  I didn't let the numbers per se, I didn't internalize it as much and I found that
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  in doing so I was able to be a little bit more level-headed as to what needed to be
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  done and be able to keep my peace, which is so important to be able to take care
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  of the patients and able to take care and enjoy my family at the end of my shifts.
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  That truly was a gift, truly was a gift.
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  So when we talk about burnout, I know there are different phases of burnout.
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  Can you elaborate on that?
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  Absolutely.
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  And the thing about burnout that people often, you know, they hear it and
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  sometimes some might even get, feel as if they're getting immune to the words,
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  but you know, I implore you not to, because it doesn't happen at a snap.
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  As you mentioned, there are phases to it.
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  So phase one is that the onset of stress and during that time, you know, this
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  is almost as if like you got this job and you're so excited and you feel like
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  I'm going to make such a great impact and I'm going to be able to effect
• 10:23
  change and you're just really, really excited with all these great ideas you
• 10:26
  have and what you're seeing around you.
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  At that point, you're feeling good.
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  But then you have the chronic stress.
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  Now, during the chronic stress, which is phase two, at that point, you
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  know, the stress levels are a little bit there, but you're able to manage.
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  Don't feel like you're completely drowning.
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  You might start to manifest a little bit of what we call
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  the psychosomatic symptoms.
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  And that's the medical term for the mental and physical symptoms starting to show.
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  Such as having a little bit of an upset stomach.
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  Let me go and get this checked out.
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  I'm having a headache.
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  Okay, maybe something bad's happening.
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  Let me get it checked out.
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  And you're getting it checked out.
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  But guess what?
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  Everything's coming back normal.
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  So this chronic headache that you're having is normal, right?
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  The stomach, the results are normal.
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  So then now you're trying to figure out like, well, why do I consistently have
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  this headache and things are normal?
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  Okay.
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  But it's because of the stress, then you get to now you're on the burnouts, right?
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  So you're getting there into that deeper phase of the actual burnout phase.
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  So when you're having movement from the chronic to that burnout phase,
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  that's when you have the exhaustion.
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  And for those who have been through burnout or going through
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  it, you know that exhaustion.
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  That's that I'm sitting in front of the building.
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  And I'm pep talking myself to go inside.
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  I'm putting my head on the steering wheel and wondering, am
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  I going to make it through today?
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  And I'm saying, you know what?
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  You can do it.
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  You can do it.
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  So once you are there, that's the exhaustion.
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  And then you start to get cynical.
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  So someone asks you, Hey, Janet, can you do this?
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  And you're like, yeah, whatever.
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  Oh, Janet didn't used to be like that.
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  Or, Hey Janet, have you seen this new thing?
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  So exciting, right?
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  Mmm yeah, it is what it is.
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  Okay, so the cynicism is happening, right?
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  And then you start to have this decreased sense of accomplishment
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  in the work that you're doing.
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  So Janet, oh my God, you did such a great job.
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  That account that you worked on was able to provide the funding for this
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  new outreach program to help these kids.
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  We're just so happy.
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  We did a great job.
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  And Janet is like, Oh yeah, thanks.
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  Because she's not feeling that sense of accomplishment.
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  If you think about everything that we do, right?
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  There's usually a goal.
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  And once you reach and accomplish a goal, you release those hormones and
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  then you feel, wow, that was great.
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  There's pleasure.
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  There's like, you know, that sense of, wow, I've done something
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  and I'm having an impact.
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  When that's gone, what's the meaning?
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  So you've lost that sense of accomplishment.
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  So that's the true burnout.
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  So exhaustion, decreased sense of accomplishment, and then cynicism,
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  which is a detachment from your work, detachment from those around you.
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  And then the phase of crisis, which is the phase that I often worried and
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  this is why I do the work that I do.
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  Which the crisis phase is when you move from, I don't really know why
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  I'm here in this job to, I don't know why I'm here on this earth.
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  So that's a transition phase now there are multiple ways that people talk
• 14:03
  about burnout, when they hear that no it's not a mental health issue.
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  It's really environmental, and with the job or, you know, which is true.
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  Through its true definition, it's a psychological response
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  to chronic workplace stress.
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  However, unresolved burnout is a bridge to mental health illnesses,
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  especially anxiety and depression.
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  They mimic, they're just two steps away.
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  Imagine how many people we can save from getting to the place of truly having
• 14:46
  a mental health issue, if we can undo burnout, if we can see them in their
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  faces and say, Oh, whoa, I see what's going on, let's help you to get back.
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  It's a liken to someone who is pre-diabetic versus the diabetic.
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  Once you're diabetic, your system has changed physiologically
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  to the point that, yes, you'll probably need to be on medication.
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  Once you're pre-diabetic, why don't we undo to reduce the
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  chance that you truly become that.
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  And that's how I look at burnout and mental.
• 15:25
  Yeah.
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  And it's real.
• 15:29
  I know that you work a lot with physicians, right?
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  And I know for physicians, sometimes it's really hard for them to admit, you
• 15:39
  know, that breaking point because really and truly, the world has been cultured
• 15:46
  to look to, okay, you go to something's wrong, you go to the physician.
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  So it's almost like the physician, nothing, you know,
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  they are immune to all of this.
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  And but you mentor and speaking with you and reading your bio,
• 15:59
  you mentor lots of physicians.
• 16:01
  Is there I mean, is there a reason why you chose physicians?
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  Is it because you are one as well?
• 16:07
  And what I said, I mean, it's home, like physicians do not like to admit that
• 16:13
  they're ill, that there's something wrong.
• 16:15
  No, that's a great question.
• 16:17
  And you know, I do work with physicians on many platforms.
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  But when it comes to burnout, I have expanded to not just physicians, but
• 16:29
  to high achievement women overall, and now putting it into categories.
• 16:34
  You are correct.
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  As a physician in our training, we are trained.
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  To take care of whatever situation that arises, and unfortunately,
• 16:50
  sometimes at the detriment of ourselves.
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  Now, they are incorporating self-care and self-awareness and wellness within
• 17:01
  the training and having mandatory parts.
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  But can you imagine an institution that's been running one way for hundreds
• 17:10
  of years, and now we're saying, Hey, we need you to change and to add this.
• 17:15
  So it's great.
• 17:17
  And it's well needed, but they are still trying to figure out how to
• 17:23
  incorporate it to make sure that these newer positions are able to integrate
• 17:31
  wellness within their training and within their lifestyle beyond training.
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  So it's still hard.
• 17:39
  With the physicians, when I work with physicians in the burnout
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  space, what I see are super passionate people who are burnt out.
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  Because those around them don't understand this passion that they have for their job
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  and what the physicians are asked to do.
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  It's hard to emotionally do it when they do not feel it's the
• 18:14
  right thing for their patients.
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  When they feel it's at the detriment so it weighs on them and they try to, you
• 18:23
  know, talk, and they try to negotiate and they try to discuss with those
• 18:29
  who are, you know, in the more of an administrative role about like, this
• 18:34
  isn't right because it doesn't do that.
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  And I can't see my patients and, you know, I need to see them in this amount
• 18:40
  of time in order to ensure that the plan is working, but it's to no avail.
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  And so it weighs on the physician.
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  And it's a huge factor.
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  And when that happens, that rolls over into their personal lives.
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  So they're going home unfulfilled.
• 19:01
  I remember we talked about that third portion in the burnout, when
• 19:04
  we said, Hey, you know, Janet, you just did such a great job.
• 19:08
  You built this great thing for this outreach program.
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  And Janet's like, Mmm yeah.
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  That's that lack of accomplishments that, you know, no sense of accomplishment.
• 19:18
  That's a big part of what happens during the fight for your patients, the fight to
• 19:25
  say, well, this isn't right, the fight.
• 19:27
  And so when that happens, that sense of accomplishment is gone.
• 19:32
  And it weighs very heavily on the physicians, and that's a
• 19:36
  huge part, and that's where you might hear the term moral injury.
• 19:40
  That's another term that people use, yes, to describe burnouts within physicians.
• 19:45
  So that's that portion.
• 19:47
  But when I also help, like, high achieving women, because akin to that, there's
• 19:52
  some women who are in, corporate jobs, or, you know, they're in jobs in other
• 19:58
  sectors such as finance, and they're dealing with similar issues and, you
• 20:04
  know, emotionally trained by the job, and therefore it's disrupting their personal
• 20:09
  lives, the time with their loved ones.
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  And so I'm able to help these women.
• 20:15
  And those sectors also.
• 20:18
  Yeah.
• 20:18
  Yeah.
• 20:19
  So, you know, one thing I've heard that in fact yesterday someone went
• 20:24
  very close to wrote an article on LinkedIn where talked about, you
• 20:29
  know, setting boundaries as women.
• 20:32
  Yes.
• 20:32
  And you know, being able to say no.
• 20:37
  Does that apply to like
• 20:43
  high achieving women, you know, the physicians that you work with,
• 20:48
  setting boundaries within work?
• 20:50
  Because I mean, these are people in very high demand jobs, you know, and very,
• 20:56
  I mean, The stress most of the time, but especially now with managed care.
• 21:01
  I'm talking about physicians.
• 21:02
  It may be hard.
• 21:03
  Those boundaries.
• 21:05
  Absolutely.
• 21:05
  And that's one of the challenge, right?
• 21:10
  So setting boundaries is a huge part of recovering and even moving from burnout.
• 21:18
  Because when we think about yes and no.
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  And we think about the time space continuum that we have.
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  It's finite.
• 21:29
  We might feel like, yeah it's finite for us.
• 21:31
  It's infinity beyond, but it's finite for us, right?
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  So when we say yes to something, unfortunately, we
• 21:39
  also say no to something else.
• 21:42
  And so setting boundaries become, well, what is it that
• 21:45
  I can say yes to at my job?
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  Or I can say no to at my job and determining where does that boundary lie
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  to the point where I am protecting my peace, to have the energy to continue
• 22:03
  to do this work at a high capacity.
• 22:07
  And be able to be respectful and to, you know, let those who are in
• 22:16
  charge understand my passion is here.
• 22:19
  My drive is here.
• 22:20
  However, we should not abuse that.
• 22:24
  Because I have only limited amount of energy and to also as a physician's not
• 22:31
  feel like they're just a cog in the wheel.
• 22:33
  Well, I'm going to use up all of this physician's energy and as
• 22:37
  soon as they are burned out, well, I'll just toss them aside and get
• 22:40
  a new one and use of that energy.
• 22:43
  So there's that's a huge dynamic that played a dynamic of, well,
• 22:50
  how can I set the boundary?
• 22:53
  But also be effective and have the respect from my colleague, my administrator,
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  that they respect and cherish what I do.
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  And not, they won't just use me as a replaceable tire on this cogwheel
• 23:13
  of life, especially in medicine.
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  And with, like we described with managed care coming on with so many changes
• 23:21
  with insurance, you know, once the year changes and new rules, less reimbursement,
• 23:29
  but still, patients need to be served.
• 23:33
  There are so many factors.
• 23:35
  And I'll say as an aside, one thing that I have seen that some of my colleagues
• 23:43
  have started to do in order to not deal with the moral injury, the lack
• 23:50
  of accomplishments that we described earlier is some of these physicians
• 23:55
  are now opening up their own practice.
• 23:58
  And they are bypassing the insurance.
• 24:01
  They're doing it as direct care, some practices, and they're having huge
• 24:09
  satisfaction, both from their patients and the satisfaction from knowing that
• 24:16
  they can spend a quality time, get the outcome that they want and be able to
• 24:21
  effectively take care of the patients the way that they're trained to.
• 24:26
  So there are many physicians who are now opting for that.
• 24:35
  That's good to know.
• 24:36
  Cause I know at one point it was almost like the opposite.
• 24:39
  They were selling out their practice to go join like a bigger, like a hospital,
• 24:44
  because a lot of the referrals are being made internally and not externally.
• 24:49
  Yes, there's still some of that going on.
• 24:52
  And then some are selling that to venture capitals.
• 24:55
  There are a lot of different factors.
• 24:57
  But there is a rebirth of the physicians who are saying, you know, we can open
• 25:06
  our own practices and to be profitable.
• 25:09
  And I am proud to say that I'm part of a, I'd say an organization.
• 25:16
  Actually, it's called the EntreMD Business School and I'm
• 25:19
  one of their success mentors.
• 25:20
  And that's what the EntreMD Business School is.
• 25:24
  Its goal is to help 100, 000 physicians.
• 25:27
  build seven and multiple seven figure businesses so they can practice
• 25:32
  medicine and live life on their terms.
• 25:34
  And I have seen these physicians.
• 25:38
  Go from, I'm an employed physician, I have no idea, I'm unhappy,
• 25:43
  I don't have any autonomy.
• 25:47
  And moving from that to, okay, I'm going to open up my practice, I'm the only
• 25:52
  one in my town, my city who's doing something, or they said that this can't
• 25:57
  work in my state, you know, no one else has ever done this, and these physicians
• 26:02
  are running successful practices, and they're having wonderful lives.
• 26:09
  And they're doing it concurrently.
• 26:11
  So there's hope.
• 26:12
  There's hope out there.
• 26:14
  I mean, it's a dire, it sounds very dire, but there is hope.
• 26:17
  And, and, you know, I am proud to be on the cornerstone of some of
• 26:22
  the physicians who are doing that.
• 26:25
  Oh that's really great to know.
• 26:28
  That's really very encouraging to hear.
• 26:31
  Because a few years ago, it felt like, you know, after all those years, Yes.
• 26:37
  You had no control.
• 26:40
  Yeah.
• 26:43
  Whoa.
• 26:44
  Oh my gosh.
• 26:45
  I always say this to my guests.
• 26:47
  I mean, where has the time gone?
• 26:51
  Multiple minutes here.
• 26:53
  Almost 30 minutes.
• 26:54
  So, what's one last thing that you would say to anyone who a high
• 27:00
  achieving woman, because that's who you primarily work with.
• 27:03
  Oh, you know, a physician, what's one last thing that you would say
• 27:07
  to them to encourage them to know that there's hope and that yes, we
• 27:10
  recognize burnout, but there's hope.
• 27:15
  I'd say that once you realize the source of your discomfort, then
• 27:27
  dig deeper and see the why of the discomfort and then pull back and
• 27:35
  see where it is that you would like to be, and then make a decision.
• 27:40
  That action plan to get there.
• 27:44
  Now, there's some people who can do it on their own.
• 27:49
  And if that's you, I encourage them to do that.
• 27:52
  If you need support, I also encourage you to get support because it is
• 27:59
  important for you to recognize that the life of unhappiness that one
• 28:05
  might be living right now is not the life that you are meant to live.
• 28:11
  And in the book of life, your particular book of life, this might seem like
• 28:18
  it's a whole chapter, but if you can take the time to get the support and
• 28:26
  the help or to make that decision to move away, then it can be just a page.
• 28:32
  So you can do this.
• 28:34
  I love that.
• 28:36
  If you make that decision to move away, it can be just a page and not a whole
• 28:40
  book of exactly drudgery and unhappiness.
• 28:45
  Absolutely.
• 28:45
  Well, I know that we are going to have give you an opportunity
• 28:50
  to speak with audience, a live audience who have joined us.
• 28:53
  But for someone else who wasn't able to join us today and would
• 28:57
  love to get into contact with you, how can they find you, Dr.
• 29:01
  Beckford?
• 29:03
  Well, you can find me on LinkedIn.
• 29:05
  I do post on LinkedIn daily and I go live, at least once or twice per week.
• 29:12
  So, go to Dr.
• 29:13
  Tamara Beckford, or you can go to my website, which is Your Care and Docs.
• 29:17
  That's U R C A R I N G D O C S dot com.
• 29:22
  Lovely, lovely, lovely.
• 29:25
  And I always say to my guests and those who are watching this later, if
• 29:30
  you'd like to be a guest on my show, please reach out to me on my website,
• 29:33
  which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
• 29:36
  I'm also on LinkedIn, similar to Dr.
• 29:39
  Beckford.
• 29:39
  I love LinkedIn, so you can find me on LinkedIn, reach out to me there.
• 29:44
  I'm on Instagram.
• 29:45
  My handle there is at chat_experts_podcast,
• 29:52
  and I'm also on Facebook.
• 29:54
  So you have many avenues in which to get in touch with me.
• 29:59
  And, again, I want to thank Dr.
• 30:01
  Tamara Beckford for being a guest on the show.
• 30:05
  And of course, now we will speak with our live audience.
• 30:08
  Thank you again.
• 30:09
  Thank you.
• 30:10
  I don't take it for granted that anyone,, is a guest on my show because
• 30:15
  you've got other things you can do, but to share your time and your
• 30:19
  knowledge and your expertise with me and others, it's truly appreciated.
• 30:24
  It's my pleasure.
• 30:26
  Thank you.