Latest / Beautifully Complex / 280: Fostering Resilience in the Age of Uncertainty, with Tovah Klein, Ph.D.

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280: Fostering Resilience in the Age of Uncertainty, with Tovah Klein, Ph.D. · Beautifully Complex

0:03
Speaker 1: How do I work, maybe doubly or triply hard, to
0:07
Speaker 1: understand this child in front of me, not the one
0:10
Speaker 1: that I thought I was having, or wish I was having,
0:14
Speaker 1: or expected, But how do I understand this child? Because
0:17
Speaker 1: being understood is what helps children accept themselves, and that's
0:22
Speaker 1: a piece of being able to handle life and be resilient.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
0:34
Speaker 2: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
0:38
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author
0:42
Speaker 2: and mindset mama, honored to guide you on the journey
0:45
Speaker 2: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hi, everybody,
0:53
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I am really excited today
0:58
Speaker 2: to have doctor Tovaklin with me, author of Raising Resilience,
1:03
Speaker 2: and we are going to talk about how to help
1:06
Speaker 2: kids in the age of uncertainty, how to help them
1:10
Speaker 2: to build resilience so that they can thrive. I'm really
1:14
Speaker 2: excited to have your insights, doctor Klein. But will you
1:17
Speaker 2: start by letting everyone listening know who you are and
1:20
Speaker 2: what you do.
1:21
Speaker 1: Sure, I'm Tovah Klein. I am a professor at Barnard
1:26
Speaker 1: College in New York City, and I run a center
1:29
Speaker 1: there called the Center for Toddler Development, which is a
1:32
Speaker 1: center for young children and families, and I also work
1:35
Speaker 1: with children, families, teens all the way up. And I'm
1:40
Speaker 1: the author of two books, my newest one Raising Resilience,
1:44
Speaker 1: and my earlier book, which is still relevant, how toddlers Thrive.
1:48
Speaker 1: And I've spent my career and spend my days devoted
1:53
Speaker 1: to children and families who are facing either daily life
1:56
Speaker 1: stress or challenges and stressors and traumatic events.
2:02
Speaker 2: Such good work. It's so needed, and things just have
2:05
Speaker 2: been changing so much in our world right, And I
2:07
Speaker 2: think for me, I am very aware of how different
2:12
Speaker 2: it is to be a kid now than when I was,
2:15
Speaker 2: how different it is to be a young adult like
2:17
Speaker 2: my kids are than when I was. And I think
2:20
Speaker 2: we find it really overwhelming. We don't know how to
2:24
Speaker 2: help them navigate a lot, and so just helping them
2:27
Speaker 2: build that resilience seems like a foundational aspect of helping
2:31
Speaker 2: them thrive exactly.
2:33
Speaker 1: And that's when I think about resilience. I really do
2:36
Speaker 1: think about this is not something that's static or a trait,
2:41
Speaker 1: or say it's not one dose, which some people, you know,
2:44
Speaker 1: sort of wish it was how do I get them resilient?
2:46
Speaker 1: It's actually this ability to adapt and adjust and be
2:51
Speaker 1: flexible no matter what life is going to sort of
2:55
Speaker 1: give that child who becomes a teenager, young adult, and adult.
3:00
Speaker 1: And so it's much more of a dynamic piece of
3:04
Speaker 1: our relationship with our children, and it's built in the
3:07
Speaker 1: everyday interactions that we have with our children. And that's
3:10
Speaker 1: always a positive message I want parents to hear, whatever
3:14
Speaker 1: your challenges are, regardless of who your child is, and
3:18
Speaker 1: because of who your child is, it's the back and
3:21
Speaker 1: forth of the relationship with them and the love and
3:24
Speaker 1: nurturing and trying our best to understand them as best
3:27
Speaker 1: we can that actually builds what we call resilience or
3:32
Speaker 1: the ability to handle life. And that's true for every
3:36
Speaker 1: child everywhere.
3:38
Speaker 2: I notice that you use the word flexibility, and that
3:42
Speaker 2: can be a real struggle for neurodivergent kids. And I
3:47
Speaker 2: find too, you know, in raising my own nerdvergent kid,
3:50
Speaker 2: was really difficult to have him be willing to sit
3:55
Speaker 2: with hard things, to do things that are uncomfortable right,
3:58
Speaker 2: and we really had to work that. Do you have
4:01
Speaker 2: any advice or strategies for parents to be able to
4:05
Speaker 2: build that flexibility too.
4:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. So one of the things I really think about is,
4:10
Speaker 1: you know, flexibility for children. You know, children who are neurodivergent,
4:16
Speaker 1: children who are anywhere on a spectrum. Flexibility is hard.
4:21
Speaker 1: It's hard even for children who don't fall into some
4:24
Speaker 1: kind of neurodivergent pattern. Flexibility comes much later, and it's
4:29
Speaker 1: why parents for a long time are the ones helping
4:33
Speaker 1: children regulate. And then if you have a child is neurodivergent,
4:37
Speaker 1: that becomes an even bigger challenge, right, yeah, yeah, So
4:41
Speaker 1: I think of flexibility is a long term project, kind
4:44
Speaker 1: of like helping children become independent is a long term project.
4:48
Speaker 1: Flexibility is too. And so one of the pieces of
4:52
Speaker 1: advice I have for parents is to be a little
4:55
Speaker 1: lighter on yourself, Like, yeah, your child's maybe in warren
5:00
Speaker 1: abilities are not so flexible. Part of that is age
5:03
Speaker 1: or stage of development. Part of that is how their
5:06
Speaker 1: brain is wired. Part of that is what we call temperament.
5:09
Speaker 1: But to not be hard on yourself when your child's
5:12
Speaker 1: having trouble being flexible and setting up those routines and
5:16
Speaker 1: schedules and reminders. Children love consistency. Some children really need
5:23
Speaker 1: consistency with a lot of reminders and a lot of
5:26
Speaker 1: sort of helping them move through their day. All of
5:30
Speaker 1: that is setting a foundation for one day I will
5:34
Speaker 1: be even a little bit more flexible, and over time
5:37
Speaker 1: it will grow. But parents have to really say to themselves,
5:41
Speaker 1: I can exhale and recognize that it's not that I'm
5:44
Speaker 1: doing something wrong or my child's doing something wrong. They're
5:48
Speaker 1: doing what they can right now.
5:50
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so important to remind ourselves for us as
5:54
Speaker 2: parents and for our kids, we're doing the best we
5:56
Speaker 2: can in the moment. Yes, sometimes it isn't great, but
6:00
Speaker 2: we always show up trying to do our very best.
6:02
Speaker 2: And I think that's really important. I love that you
6:05
Speaker 2: said to be lighter to ourselves because we have a
6:08
Speaker 2: lot of conversations here about giving yourself grace as a
6:12
Speaker 2: parent because it's hard. It's hard, and we want the
6:15
Speaker 2: best for our kids, but we're also human beings exactly.
6:20
Speaker 1: And that's a big part of my new book is
6:22
Speaker 1: something that I call the you factor, you know, yo
6:25
Speaker 1: you factor, meaning looking at ourselves as parents and thinking about, Okay,
6:30
Speaker 1: so what do I bring from my own past and
6:34
Speaker 1: my own history We're all human, we all come from somewhere,
6:38
Speaker 1: and so what am I bringing into being a parent?
6:41
Speaker 1: What are my expectations and importantly where are they coming from?
6:46
Speaker 1: And also what are the good things from my childhood
6:50
Speaker 1: that I want to keep? What are the hard things?
6:52
Speaker 1: Are the bad things that I really don't want to
6:55
Speaker 1: keep I want to change? Or what was missing from
6:57
Speaker 1: my child? What did I wish my parents were to
7:00
Speaker 1: provide me that they weren't and I would like to
7:03
Speaker 1: provide for my child. So all of that reflection and
7:07
Speaker 1: each chapter I actually have reflective questions because when we
7:11
Speaker 1: get to know our children and then you find out, oh,
7:14
Speaker 1: this child actually is neurodivergent or they have a diagnosis,
7:19
Speaker 1: there's still that little girl, little boy or person that
7:22
Speaker 1: you love. Right. The diagnosis doesn't change that piece. But
7:26
Speaker 1: the question becomes, how do I work, maybe doubly or
7:31
Speaker 1: triply hard, to understand this child in front of me,
7:35
Speaker 1: not the one that I thought I was having, or
7:38
Speaker 1: wish I was having, or expected, but how do I
7:41
Speaker 1: understand this child? Because being understood this is what I
7:45
Speaker 1: call my fifth pillar in the book. Being understood is
7:48
Speaker 1: what helps children accept themselves. And that's a piece of
7:54
Speaker 1: being able to handle life and be resilient. I'm good
7:57
Speaker 1: as who I am, even in a way world that
8:00
Speaker 1: messages you otherwise.
8:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, that acceptance piece of it for parents and for kids. Yeah,
8:08
Speaker 2: I think, you know, I talk a lot about the
8:09
Speaker 2: fact that I think everybody needs to feel seen, heard
8:12
Speaker 2: and understood. That that's just the core of being able
8:16
Speaker 2: to be a good human, to be able to go
8:19
Speaker 2: to school and learn to make things doable. Yeah, it
8:23
Speaker 2: feels really foundational to me to success and thriving.
8:29
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's really if you think about, you know, what
8:32
Speaker 1: is it that every child needs. It's this feeling of
8:35
Speaker 1: I'm not alone in the world. When bad things happen,
8:39
Speaker 1: I'm going to be okay. Why because there's someone there
8:41
Speaker 1: who's going to help me. My parent loves me for
8:44
Speaker 1: who I am and they're going to help me through this.
8:46
Speaker 1: And when we have really bad moments, my parents and I,
8:50
Speaker 1: my parent and I, we're going to come back together.
8:54
Speaker 1: We're going to somehow the parent's going to apologize or
8:57
Speaker 1: you're going to go over and say, well that was
8:59
Speaker 1: a really rough time and we're back together. We still
9:03
Speaker 1: love each other. That allows the child to say I
9:07
Speaker 1: may have challenges, maybe a fourteen year old or an
9:11
Speaker 1: eighteen year old or six year old with challenges. But
9:13
Speaker 1: I'm okay because of this love for my parents what
9:17
Speaker 1: we call security.
9:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. That relationship is so important and
9:23
Speaker 2: being human in front of our kids, I think is
9:25
Speaker 2: so important. Like we have to model these things, right,
9:28
Speaker 2: We have to model that sometimes things are hard and
9:31
Speaker 2: how you manage through that, and that you know what
9:34
Speaker 2: resilience looks like on the other side, right right, And.
9:37
Speaker 1: It's I think you just called it what it is
9:40
Speaker 1: when you get to the other side, whether it's where
9:43
Speaker 1: you thought you were going to land that day or not.
9:46
Speaker 1: It's the reminders to the child we got through that, yeah,
9:50
Speaker 1: and to ourselves as parents. This was a moment in time.
9:54
Speaker 1: It was a tough one. Exhal here we are and
9:59
Speaker 1: then helping old and over time see that too, you've
10:02
Speaker 1: gotten through off moments before. I'm going to help you
10:05
Speaker 1: through it again.
10:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about hard things,
10:10
Speaker 2: like really hard things. This age of uncertainty, as you've
10:13
Speaker 2: called it, A lot of things happen and our kids
10:17
Speaker 2: hear about all of it. We can't shield them right
10:21
Speaker 2: from the news and things like that. Anymore. And I
10:24
Speaker 2: see so much more anxiety these days and kids, as
10:27
Speaker 2: I'm sure you do. How do we help them? What
10:31
Speaker 2: conversation should we be having around those feelings of uncertainty
10:36
Speaker 2: with our kids?
10:37
Speaker 1: Right? This is really where my idea for this book
10:41
Speaker 1: came from, back in about twenty sixteen, when I was
10:44
Speaker 1: thinking of, like, okay, what's my next book. I came
10:48
Speaker 1: to this idea from kind of two lines of work
10:50
Speaker 1: that I do. One is on a large scale trauma,
10:53
Speaker 1: so nine to eleven wildfires, you know, the disaster in
10:58
Speaker 1: Japan and twenty eleven, So thinking about what is it
11:02
Speaker 1: that children need to be buffered in these horrific situations
11:07
Speaker 1: and my everyday work with children and families, and I
11:11
Speaker 1: came to what may seem obvious now, but oh, you
11:15
Speaker 1: know what, life is always uncertain. Every single day is uncertain.
11:19
Speaker 1: So we can actually learn from the stress and trauma
11:21
Speaker 1: literature what it is parents are doing every single day
11:25
Speaker 1: to help children. And then the world shifted in twenty twenty,
11:28
Speaker 1: as we all know, I thought, oh, I'd better write
11:30
Speaker 1: this book because uncertainty is here to stay, that's like
11:33
Speaker 1: a given. And with social media, with world events, with
11:38
Speaker 1: US events, it feels that much more destabilizing. I think
11:43
Speaker 1: the way to think about what a children need is
11:46
Speaker 1: some protection. You know, particularly for younger children. You know,
11:49
Speaker 1: we always have to say what is their age and
11:53
Speaker 1: their developmental context, because knowing a child is eight is
11:57
Speaker 1: only one piece of information. Where are they developed mentally?
12:01
Speaker 1: And then how do I explain? How do I give
12:04
Speaker 1: a narrative that helps them both understand that things are
12:08
Speaker 1: happening around them and helps them feel safe. And some
12:12
Speaker 1: of the examples I have in my book are exactly
12:15
Speaker 1: that parents explaining a situation to a child, either in
12:19
Speaker 1: the moment of crisis or following the crisis, and at
12:23
Speaker 1: the same time messaging we're safe, we got out of there,
12:28
Speaker 1: or that gunman has been caught he can't hurt anybody else.
12:34
Speaker 1: Children always need some truth, depending on their age level,
12:38
Speaker 1: how much detail, and then a safety message because the
12:44
Speaker 1: piece that we know from years of research and experience
12:48
Speaker 1: is that children need to feel safe, and so whether
12:53
Speaker 1: that's in your home or in the larger world, we
12:56
Speaker 1: have to give them that sense of safety. I remember
12:59
Speaker 1: after nine and people saying to me, I can't tell
13:01
Speaker 1: my child to be home tonight because look at all
13:04
Speaker 1: those parents who perished in the towers. I was like, yeah,
13:08
Speaker 1: but your a child needs to know that there's a
13:11
Speaker 1: ninety nine point nine percent probability that you're coming home
13:15
Speaker 1: after work, and that's what they live by the message
13:18
Speaker 1: of that was a bad thing that happened, that was scary,
13:22
Speaker 1: we were worried, and we're all safe now. And it's
13:26
Speaker 1: those pieces that I call the narrative that hold children together.
13:31
Speaker 1: So not glossing over it or not pretending something didn't happen.
13:35
Speaker 1: As children get older, we can check in, so what
13:39
Speaker 1: is it that you know about what happened today, and
13:42
Speaker 1: hear from them what their knowledge is, but also what
13:46
Speaker 1: their worries are, what they're thinking about. The great thing
13:50
Speaker 1: about children and teenagers is they come back to us
13:53
Speaker 1: with questions. Yeah right, they come back and say, you know,
13:56
Speaker 1: I know this happened, but and then they come up
13:59
Speaker 1: with their no question, and then you can answer that question.
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Speaker 2: want to pose a scenario because I remember in the
15:56
Speaker 2: last year in some of the communities that I host
15:59
Speaker 2: on social media, we had, of course school shootings unfortunately,
16:05
Speaker 2: and parents, you know, were advised to let your kN
16:09
Speaker 2: know that they're safe, and a lot of parents got
16:13
Speaker 2: really upset and said, but they're not really safe, you know.
16:16
Speaker 2: And I can sort of I feel that because I
16:20
Speaker 2: was a mess sending my kids to school, but also
16:24
Speaker 2: I realized, just from that outside perspective, that that's their fear.
16:30
Speaker 2: And I'm guilty of this too. I have anxiety myself,
16:32
Speaker 2: so I'm very guilty of putting some of my anxiety
16:35
Speaker 2: on my kids as they were growing up because I
16:37
Speaker 2: didn't know better, I didn't recognize what was happening. And
16:40
Speaker 2: so how do we sort of bridge that divide where
16:44
Speaker 2: we don't really feel like they're safe, but we can't
16:47
Speaker 2: put that on them either.
16:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you asked that, because this is where
16:52
Speaker 1: you get into the parent being aware of our own stuff,
16:57
Speaker 1: pene of our stuff is and saying how do I
17:00
Speaker 1: both become aware? Awareness is always the first piece. Sometimes
17:04
Speaker 1: a parent says to me, all right, well, I've just
17:05
Speaker 1: named it, but that's not a big deal. It is
17:07
Speaker 1: a big deal. I have anxiety. How do I keep
17:11
Speaker 1: this from my child? I think the second piece is
17:15
Speaker 1: thinking about, okay, what are the facts here? And if
17:21
Speaker 1: the truth is, if you really didn't think your child
17:23
Speaker 1: was safe yet, you wouldn't send them back to school.
17:27
Speaker 1: So do I have enough trust in this process that
17:31
Speaker 1: there's been enough awareness in the school's part, of the community's, part,
17:36
Speaker 1: of the neighborhood's part, that I can trust them to
17:39
Speaker 1: have my child there even if I'm terrified, Because what
17:44
Speaker 1: we know is that parents buffer children, and what I
17:46
Speaker 1: mean by that is we have stress. There's stress in
17:49
Speaker 1: the world. The child has stress, and it's the parent
17:53
Speaker 1: that kind of brings them down that says this is
17:57
Speaker 1: a little scary or it was a lot scary. The
18:00
Speaker 1: teachers and the principle, the police in our neighborhood, the firefighters,
18:06
Speaker 1: you know, whoever, their sort of protective agents are are
18:09
Speaker 1: working very hard to keep us safe. And I know
18:12
Speaker 1: you're worried, but I know all these pieces of people
18:15
Speaker 1: who are working to keep us safe. And even if
18:19
Speaker 1: you don't fully believe it yourself. It's doing that self
18:22
Speaker 1: work so that you can impart on the child. I'm
18:25
Speaker 1: sending you back to school because pieces are in place
18:29
Speaker 1: to keep you safe, and I'm going to see you
18:31
Speaker 1: after school. It's a lot of self work, a lot.
18:35
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you really have to be mindful as a parent,
18:38
Speaker 2: and nobody teaches you that.
18:40
Speaker 1: No. And even when you think about bringing home your
18:43
Speaker 1: first child, being handed your first child, you know, I say,
18:47
Speaker 1: whether you get birth, or you witness the birth, or
18:50
Speaker 1: you adopted, you know that child is yours. Anxiety just
18:55
Speaker 1: begins because that's a very dependent little person who's very
19:00
Speaker 1: dependent on us. And I'm not sure what could prepare
19:03
Speaker 1: us for. We do a lot of reading, we talk
19:05
Speaker 1: to our friends, our family, but it's from the moment
19:09
Speaker 1: the child enters our life. It really is about can
19:11
Speaker 1: I manage these feelings of mine? Can I be aware
19:15
Speaker 1: of them? Can I bring down my own anxiety? Mm hm?
19:19
Speaker 2: And what if you can't in the moment, what if
19:24
Speaker 2: you just can't have say that conversation that you just
19:27
Speaker 2: outlined for us? Yet, what do we do? How do
19:30
Speaker 2: we manage the question?
19:32
Speaker 1: You know, if you're in crisis, the first thing is
19:34
Speaker 1: going to always be get to safety. You know, you're
19:36
Speaker 1: going to get out of the burning house. You're gonna
19:39
Speaker 1: get your child of a situation and the best of
19:41
Speaker 1: your abilities, and so it's not even about talking, it's
19:43
Speaker 1: about doing. And then there may be moments that you
19:47
Speaker 1: say to a child, we're safe. Now I need a
19:50
Speaker 1: few minutes. I need a few minutes. You know, you
19:54
Speaker 1: put them wherever you're going to have them. This is
19:56
Speaker 1: where screens are great. As much as everybody worries about screens,
19:59
Speaker 1: maybe you sit the in front of the TV or screen,
20:01
Speaker 1: or you get them a snack after nine to eleven.
20:04
Speaker 1: A lot of the parents talked about when they got
20:06
Speaker 1: to safety, making a snack, which makes sense. It's nourishing
20:09
Speaker 1: the soul that's been frightened. And then you say I
20:13
Speaker 1: need a minute or I need some time. Maybe you're
20:16
Speaker 1: hysterical and you need to calm down, but it's again
20:20
Speaker 1: being aware of I need to first center myself somehow,
20:26
Speaker 1: whatever that's going to take, and then I'm going to
20:28
Speaker 1: come back to you, because grounding yourself is always the
20:32
Speaker 1: first step before we can possibly help a child either
20:36
Speaker 1: calm down or feel safe enough in the moment.
20:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. It's so true that we need
20:44
Speaker 2: to feel grounded. And again, it's something that we don't
20:46
Speaker 2: teach people. We're not talking about it enough. Like I
20:50
Speaker 2: remember having my first kid and they were like, you
20:53
Speaker 2: have to watch this video before you can leave the
20:55
Speaker 2: hospital with her, right, you have to have you watched
20:57
Speaker 2: the video yet, And I'm like, you know, half asleep
21:01
Speaker 2: and not functioning, and I'm like, okay, whatever. And it
21:04
Speaker 2: was about car seats.
21:06
Speaker 1: And that was it.
21:06
Speaker 2: That was all they told me. Yeah, they made me
21:08
Speaker 2: watch a video on car seats and then they sent
21:10
Speaker 2: me into the world with this tiny little human and
21:13
Speaker 2: I had no idea what to do with right, And
21:16
Speaker 2: so it's like, yeah, like we're we're learning. And now
21:20
Speaker 2: that you know my kids are in their early twenties,
21:24
Speaker 2: I have a lot of knowledge about parenting, especially you know,
21:27
Speaker 2: getting into this work. But starting out, like I didn't
21:31
Speaker 2: know that we had to work on resilience. I didn't
21:34
Speaker 2: know that I was co escalating instead of coregulating and
21:38
Speaker 2: all of these things, right, And so you know, that's
21:41
Speaker 2: just more of an illustration of how much parents have
21:44
Speaker 2: to give themselves grace, Like you don't know what you
21:46
Speaker 2: don't know, and you're here learning it exactly.
21:50
Speaker 1: And also you don't know what you don't know. And
21:55
Speaker 1: you could be kind to yourself and say children are
21:57
Speaker 1: forgiving when there's love, you know there's a loving relationship,
22:03
Speaker 1: children are very forgiving, Meaning you can say I'm sorry
22:07
Speaker 1: I handled that that way, and I'm going to try
22:10
Speaker 1: to do it differently next time. I still love you.
22:12
Speaker 1: It's not your fault that I got upset. I'm going
22:15
Speaker 1: to work on that. Love is the most important piece
22:18
Speaker 1: of a relationship. Right so you can like look at
22:20
Speaker 1: every parenting book, every meme that's out there, every Instagram post.
22:25
Speaker 1: But really the question is is they're back and forth
22:29
Speaker 1: that says to the child, you are loved and I'm
22:32
Speaker 1: going to work harder to understand you if I don't
22:35
Speaker 1: really know what you need right now. Because we don't
22:37
Speaker 1: always know.
22:38
Speaker 2: No, we don't.
22:39
Speaker 1: We're human.
22:40
Speaker 2: They're not always good at communicating how they're feeling or
22:43
Speaker 2: what's really going on, and we often fill in that
22:46
Speaker 2: blank for them. Yes, you know, if they're not able
22:49
Speaker 2: to tell us, we make assumptions, and when we get
22:52
Speaker 2: it wrong, then they feel less understood and less seen
22:56
Speaker 2: and heard. Right, and so we really have to be
22:58
Speaker 2: more open. I wanted to talk a little bit about
23:01
Speaker 2: when our kids are not willing to talk about something hard,
23:06
Speaker 2: whether it's something big like nine eleven are school shooting,
23:09
Speaker 2: or even something you know that just happened to them
23:12
Speaker 2: that day, how do we help them but also honor
23:18
Speaker 2: what they're kind of telling us they need.
23:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's a really important question because we as
23:24
Speaker 1: adults are verbal and our assumption, and I think this
23:30
Speaker 1: assumption even in helping fields my own included, is that
23:33
Speaker 1: we're going to talk through situations. Yeah, but really, what
23:38
Speaker 1: children respond to, what other humans respond to, is a connection.
23:43
Speaker 1: So it's not always words. Sometimes it's a hand on
23:45
Speaker 1: a shoulder, Sometimes it's a nod, you know, and sometimes
23:49
Speaker 1: it's as simple as that seems rough today, I'm here.
23:55
Speaker 1: If I can be of help, I'm here. You know.
23:57
Speaker 1: One of the things I work very hard to do
23:59
Speaker 1: in this book and raising resilience to what I call
24:02
Speaker 1: unpack that parent child relationship. What is it that parents
24:07
Speaker 1: do to queue in And often it is, you know,
24:10
Speaker 1: for some children, it's a hug. For some children it's
24:13
Speaker 1: like stay far away from me, but don't go away. Yeah,
24:17
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to be in the kitchen getting
24:20
Speaker 1: ready for dinner, and I'm here if you need me,
24:23
Speaker 1: and then maybe going in and checking. It's this feeling
24:26
Speaker 1: of I'm not alone. They're here for me when I
24:31
Speaker 1: need them, and it's sometimes hard to figure out, you know,
24:34
Speaker 1: if you have more than one child, Different children need
24:36
Speaker 1: different different ways of relating, and an individual child needs
24:42
Speaker 1: different things at different times. So one of the things
24:44
Speaker 1: I write in there is, you know, don't be hard
24:47
Speaker 1: on yourself if you've tried several different methods and they
24:51
Speaker 1: don't work. Some of it is trial and error. Oh yeah, right,
24:55
Speaker 1: and so being accepting of ourself. You know that worked
24:58
Speaker 1: last time she had this massive meltdown, it didn't work
25:02
Speaker 1: this time. Let me try something else, or let me
25:06
Speaker 1: back off a bit. Mm hmm.
25:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I like that you reminded us that it
25:11
Speaker 2: might change over time with the same kid. My kid,
25:15
Speaker 2: when he was young, it was having big emotions. If
25:18
Speaker 2: I left, it got bigger. Yeah, that was really bad.
25:21
Speaker 2: He felt abandoned, right, and he didn't feel any connection.
25:25
Speaker 2: And you know, I had to be in the room
25:27
Speaker 2: but not trying to help, which is really hard for
25:29
Speaker 2: me because I'm helper. And then you know, later on
25:33
Speaker 2: he didn't want me around. He wanted to go into
25:36
Speaker 2: a room that was quiet by himself and deal with it.
25:39
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, like, we just have to really really
25:43
Speaker 2: dig deep to understand our kids and to be able
25:47
Speaker 2: to honor what they need, which can be really hard
25:50
Speaker 2: when it's the opposite of what we need. Right Like,
25:55
Speaker 2: I am a very organized type, a get it done,
25:58
Speaker 2: check the box, help you right now. We must get
26:02
Speaker 2: through this right now kind of person, and I have
26:04
Speaker 2: a kid who is the exact opposite, and it was
26:07
Speaker 2: a lot of work for me, right and I think
26:10
Speaker 2: we have to recognize that.
26:11
Speaker 1: And here's I think a piece that you're talking about,
26:13
Speaker 1: which is not to take it personally, which is very
26:17
Speaker 1: difficult and particularly difficult with our firstborns, could be difficult
26:22
Speaker 1: with any of them. To not take their behavior, their needs,
26:26
Speaker 1: their emotions personally is again a lot of self work
26:32
Speaker 1: on what do I need to do to say, I'm
26:35
Speaker 1: the parent this child may be hard to understand. The
26:39
Speaker 1: best I can do is try to understand them, even
26:41
Speaker 1: if I don't get it right. That piece of sort
26:45
Speaker 1: of separateness can be a real challenge for any parent. Yeah,
26:49
Speaker 1: but we keep doing it. And then we keep going
26:51
Speaker 1: back to our child to repair those tough moments. You know,
26:55
Speaker 1: I realize that you need it a little more time
26:58
Speaker 1: with me, and I wish I had given that to
27:00
Speaker 1: you next time. I'm going to do this differently, says
27:04
Speaker 1: to them, I'm human, My connection to you really matters.
27:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, such good advice, so many great nuggets here, and
27:13
Speaker 2: I'm sure that everyone will get so much out of
27:16
Speaker 2: the book as well, raising resilience. Anything else that you
27:20
Speaker 2: want to add, anything we haven't talked about yet as
27:23
Speaker 2: we wrap up.
27:25
Speaker 1: No, I think the main point that I would say
27:27
Speaker 1: is that I'm like an eternal optimist because it's challenging
27:31
Speaker 1: as children are, as challenging as are sort of what
27:35
Speaker 1: we bring to being a parent is, and as challenging
27:37
Speaker 1: as the world can be. There is a lot of
27:40
Speaker 1: back and forth in that relationship, and so if parents
27:45
Speaker 1: can give them self grace, as you say, have some humor,
27:49
Speaker 1: and turn to people who support them, it actually makes
27:52
Speaker 1: us better parents. Oh.
27:54
Speaker 2: I love that self care is so important. Yeah, we
27:57
Speaker 2: don't value it enough in our culture, and we need
27:59
Speaker 2: to really make sure that we can show up as
28:02
Speaker 2: our best selves in order to help our kids. Yeah,
28:05
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, doctor Klin for being here. I
28:07
Speaker 2: want everyone to be able to connect with you. So
28:11
Speaker 2: if you go to Parenting ADHD and Autism dot com
28:16
Speaker 2: slash two eight zero for episode two hundred and eighty,
28:20
Speaker 2: we have links to doctor Klein's book, Raising Resilience, her
28:25
Speaker 2: other book as well website all of that good stuff
28:28
Speaker 2: that you can follow and connect and learn more and
28:33
Speaker 2: you know, keep on that journey of becoming the parent
28:35
Speaker 2: that you want to be in the parent that your
28:37
Speaker 2: kid needs you to be. Thank you so much again
28:40
Speaker 2: for being here and sharing some of your time and wisdom.
28:43
Speaker 2: I know that it's helped so many of our listeners
28:46
Speaker 2: to be able to show up a little bit differently
28:48
Speaker 2: and help our kids through some really challenging times.
28:51
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
28:53
Speaker 2: I will see everybody on the next episode. Take good care.
28:57
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining me on the Beautifully Complex podcast. If
29:00
Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and share, and don't
29:04
Speaker 2: forget to check out my online courses and parent coaching
29:08
Speaker 2: at PARENTINGADHD and Autism dot com and at The Behavior
29:12
Speaker 2: Revolution dot com.