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SUSPECT IN BLUDGEON DEATH OF TEEN BOY AT HALLOWEEN PARTY ARRESTED AGAIN? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Does the name Preston Lord ring a bell? Well, it's
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Speaker 2: the name I will never forget. This handsome young boy,
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Speaker 2: Preston Lord, just sixteen, was beaten dead at a Halloween party.
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Speaker 2: As it turns out, a group of teens terrorizing a
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Speaker 2: sleepy little Arizona town called Gilbert Goons seemingly were behind
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Speaker 2: the attack on this young boy. Well, in the last Days,
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Speaker 2: a bombshell development in the case. I'm Nancy Grace, this
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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us in
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Speaker 2: the last days, A so called Gilbert Goon suspect, Jacob Pennington,
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Speaker 2: arrested again just hours after he was sentenced to just
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Speaker 2: three year's probation for assault linked to the gang terrorizing
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Speaker 2: the little town including the Phoenix suburbs. That's right, a
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Speaker 2: suspected member of the Gilbert Goons gang arrested again just
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Speaker 2: after being sentenced to straight probation, which is a crime
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Speaker 2: in itself. Jacob Pennington, twenty arrested on suspicion of underage
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Speaker 2: drinking the very same day he gets straight probation. The
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Speaker 2: reign of terror these teens have enjoyed has gone on
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Speaker 2: for two years at least It includes armed robberies, dozens
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Speaker 2: of assaults at parties and in parking lots, several of
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Speaker 2: those assaults with brass knuckles, and it all culminated in
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Speaker 2: the deadly beating of teen boy Preston Lord. What happened
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Speaker 2: the night of that fateful party? A group of tea's
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Speaker 2: getting together at Halloween party?
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Speaker 1: How can it go so wrong?
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Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm at a party and a bunch of
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Speaker 3: people are with a gun and jump my friend and
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Speaker 3: he's knocked out on the ground. He's been unconscious for
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Speaker 3: like two minutes.
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Speaker 1: We need people over here.
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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm and then started, okay, don't hang up to
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Speaker 4: stand the line with me.
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Speaker 2: You are hearing the nine to one one call from
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Speaker 2: the night this young boy was beaten and kicked brutally
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Speaker 2: until he dies. We've got an all star panel. But
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Speaker 2: first I want to go out to veteran criminal defense attorney,
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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer in inter city Atlanta, Raymond Judice at
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Speaker 2: rayglaw dot com. Ray, as you know you as a
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Speaker 2: defense attorney, me as a prosecutor. The first thing I
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Speaker 2: would like to do when I struck a jury is
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Speaker 2: play the nine to one one call, because witnesses can
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Speaker 2: tell their version on the stand, but there's nothing like
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Speaker 2: what happened at the moment. Agree, disagree, totally agree.
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Speaker 5: It's how you're going to open up your opening statement
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Speaker 5: to a jury. It also sets your timeline for the
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Speaker 5: events that will occur both at the scene and post investigation.
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Speaker 2: Well, you're right, and the first thing you want to
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Speaker 2: do is set up the timeline. Speaking of the nine
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Speaker 2: to one one call in front of a jury, I
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Speaker 2: would play it straight out all the way through. Now
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Speaker 2: listen to more of that nine to one one call.
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Speaker 1: Listen.
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Speaker 4: Do you know the people that did this? Are they
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Speaker 4: still there or have they left?
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Speaker 3: I don't know if they left, they're still here. I
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Speaker 3: got out of there as quick responsibles, so.
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Speaker 2: I need to get hurt.
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Speaker 3: I don't know the people that are there. We don't
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Speaker 3: have any beef with them or anything.
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Speaker 4: Do you know did you see the people that assaulted them?
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Speaker 4: Did you see them well enough to get any description
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Speaker 4: or did you not see it?
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Speaker 6: Actually?
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Speaker 4: How they all had They all had mask on and
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Speaker 4: it was how many? Was it a lot? It's like
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Speaker 4: four or five or more like fifteen?
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Speaker 2: Okay, this is every parent's worst nightmare, group or gang mentality.
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Speaker 1: The first case I ever had like this.
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Speaker 2: At that time, we called it wilding when young people
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Speaker 2: or people in general do things as part of a
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Speaker 2: pack that they would never do on their own.
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Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of that nine one one call.
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Speaker 4: There's not always enough. Well, I know, I know, I know,
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Speaker 4: we're getting on you.
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Speaker 7: You did all the stuff.
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Speaker 3: Are you still there?
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Speaker 4: I'm still here? Okay. Did he say your friend has
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Speaker 4: a cool snow?
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Speaker 3: Yes?
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Speaker 4: Okay, that's good.
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Speaker 3: My god, dude, I'm so dead.
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Speaker 8: Okay.
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Speaker 2: From here, yeah, you can hear the police arriving in
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Speaker 2: the background, and you hear the callers and the teams
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Speaker 2: gathered around what would soon be a dead body saying
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Speaker 2: I Am so dead. They're worried about themselves being in trouble,
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Speaker 2: and it's amazing to me. I'm about to go to
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Speaker 2: Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. It's amazing
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Speaker 2: to me that within hours, literally hours of this teen
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Speaker 2: boy just sixteen years old, and you know, Alexis, this
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Speaker 2: is the age of my John, David and Lucy. Within
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Speaker 2: hours of him being pronounced dead, people were already trying
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Speaker 2: to get money.
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Speaker 9: Listen to Nicole parton Crime online. As Preston Lord lays
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Speaker 9: unconscious on the pavement, friends determine his heart has stopped.
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Speaker 9: Other partygoers perform CPR until police arrive and take over.
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Speaker 9: Lord is taken by ambulance to Chandler Regional Hospital, then
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Speaker 9: transferred to Phoenix Children's in extremely critical condition with a
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Speaker 9: severe brain injury. Preston Lord succumbs to his injuries. For
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Speaker 9: those involved, Lord's death is fodder for social media, some
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Speaker 9: trying to figure out how to cash in on the
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Speaker 9: reward money offered for information about what happened. The suspects
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Speaker 9: discuss the fight over Snapchat, with one of the messages
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Speaker 9: reading my mom once in on the ten thousand dollars.
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Speaker 9: These messages are some of the first real clues police
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Speaker 9: begin to follow.
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Speaker 2: I don't understand, Alexis Treschuk. Within hours after this boy
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Speaker 2: is pronounced dead, people are trying to get thousands of dollars.
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Speaker 1: How is that so?
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Speaker 6: The police offered a reward, a ten thousand dollars reward
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Speaker 6: for any information about this case, because, as the kids
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Speaker 6: said on the nine to one one called, they were
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Speaker 6: in a mask. So at first people were thinking, oh,
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Speaker 6: we don't know the identity of who these people are
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Speaker 6: that beat this little boy to death because they had
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Speaker 6: masks on. So there was a ten thousand dollars reward
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Speaker 6: offered for information leading to unrest. However, these kids that
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Speaker 6: are all talking are the ones that were involved in
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Speaker 6: the beating, and they're so callous. They're saying, oh, my
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Speaker 6: mom wants it on the money because they were involved
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Speaker 6: in it, so if the mom turns in another kid,
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Speaker 6: they'll get the money. But all of these kids were involved,
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Speaker 6: and they were on top of him, punching him, hitting
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Speaker 6: him in fact, so he goes knock to the ground
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Speaker 6: and these guys were on top of him, dry humping him,
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Speaker 6: so simulating like sex or raping this body that was
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Speaker 6: on the ground. Now, which all these other kids, you know,
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Speaker 6: there were hundreds of kids at this party were watching
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Speaker 6: this happen. They're desperately calling nine one one. They're trying
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Speaker 6: to get it stuff. They're scared because they'd seen guns.
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Speaker 6: And it really started because apparently one of the guys
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Speaker 6: grabbed a gold necklace off a girl there, just ripped
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Speaker 6: it off her and stole it. So Preston tried to
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Speaker 6: get it back. He wasn't fighting with these guys he
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Speaker 6: wasn't saying bad things then, wasn't He just tried to
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Speaker 6: get his friend's necklace back, like being a stand up
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Speaker 6: gentleman for his friend, and that's when they unleashed on him.
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Speaker 1: Guys.
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Speaker 2: The day Preston the Lord, this teen boy dies. Apparently
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Speaker 2: another kid, a rich brat, a silver.
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Speaker 1: Spoon in his mouth.
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Speaker 2: Dad is multimillionaire Dad Travis Renner goes to work. According
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Speaker 2: to sources, I'd love to hear from mister Renner if
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Speaker 2: he would join us, trying to cover up his son's involvement.
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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Crime Onlines Dave Mack.
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Speaker 10: The day Preston Lord passes away, Talent Render's millionaire father,
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Speaker 10: Travis Renner goes to work trying to cover up the
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Speaker 10: teen's involvement. Renner and his business partner allegedly hand out
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Speaker 10: NDA's and push story that despite Talent Renner having thrown
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Speaker 10: the first punch, Talan Vigil was truly to blame for
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Speaker 10: Lord's death. Renner tells the school his son is being
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Speaker 10: bullied and whisks Talent away to his eight hundred thousand
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Speaker 10: dollars golf club cabin in show Low, Arizona for a
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Speaker 10: week while Talon's hands healed from the fight. Meanwhile, Talon
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Speaker 10: Renter brags to friends on Snapchat, I got in a fight,
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Speaker 10: a big group fight, and I accidentally killed a kid.
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Speaker 10: I guess I'm just too strong.
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now.
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Speaker 2: Board certified forensic pathologists, former medical examiner in Vegas. Never
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Speaker 2: lack a business there, doctor Gan Gorniac. Doctor Gorniac, I'm
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Speaker 2: going to circle back to you about the injury sustained
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Speaker 2: by the boy, the dead boy. But what do you
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Speaker 2: believe they're talking about? After seeing so many dead bodies
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Speaker 2: in the morgue, when we say that we have been
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Speaker 2: told and formed, the father kept his son away for
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Speaker 2: about ho week till his quote injuries healed.
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Speaker 1: What are they talking about?
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Speaker 11: So obviously, when you have any blunt injuries, that means
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Speaker 11: your body hits something or something hit your body. So
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Speaker 11: in this case of this young thug, he actually has
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Speaker 11: injuries on his hands because his hands hit something. Unfortunately,
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Speaker 11: this young man's head, So he's going to have contusions
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Speaker 11: or bruises on his hands. So he's going to probably
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Speaker 11: take depending if he has any other cuts on his hand,
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Speaker 11: it's going to take some time for them to heal.
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Speaker 2: And under Gorniat, you have studied the case, what can
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Speaker 2: you tell us about the victim's injuries. I understand he
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Speaker 2: was beaten and kicked dead. He laid there on the
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Speaker 2: ground while all of these I guess friends frenemies beat
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Speaker 2: him dead. But what is the actual cause of death
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Speaker 2: in a case like this.
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Speaker 11: In a case like this, it sounds like his injuries
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Speaker 11: are blunt first injuries of the head. He got hit
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Speaker 11: so hard with obviously fists. I'm not sure. When they're
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Speaker 11: beating him while he's down, does that mean also and
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Speaker 11: he kicks I'm not sure, but he has extensive head trauma,
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Speaker 11: so therefore he also has some bleeding within his brain.
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Speaker 11: So blood on your brain causes some swelling of your
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Speaker 11: brain and which is incompatible with life. And we heard
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Speaker 11: that he was unconscious at the scene, you know, right
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Speaker 11: after the injuries occurred. So it sounds like.
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Speaker 1: He was hit so hard.
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Speaker 11: Plus his head probably hit concrete, so that in combination
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Speaker 11: really caused some devastating injuries.
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Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the Gilbert Goons gang suspect
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Speaker 2: Jacob Pennington arrested again and this is just hours after
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Speaker 2: he gets straight probation for an assault linked to the
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Speaker 2: gang that terrorizes a sleepy little Arizona town the suburbs.
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Speaker 2: Now remember, he was not charged in relation to Preston's death.
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Speaker 2: The gang is suspected in Preston's death. This month alone,
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Speaker 2: Pennington shows up in court on two different occasions for
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Speaker 2: two different alleged crimes. One on June ten for an assault.
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Speaker 2: Three days later, he shows up in court June thirteen,
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Speaker 2: and that's when he sent us to three years probation
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Speaker 2: for an assault. Then later that day he'spused again for
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Speaker 2: underage drinking. He was in a car that was pulled
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Speaker 2: over for a traffic violation. Ten forty five pm after
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Speaker 2: this last arrest, Maricopa County Attorney's Office files a petition
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Speaker 2: to revoke his probation sentence final He's going to jail
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Speaker 2: is just really happening.
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Speaker 1: But what about Preston. Lord read you to cha. I'd
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Speaker 1: like you to address this. It's reminding me a little bit.
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Speaker 2: I know that you followed very closely the case of
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Speaker 2: high profile logout of South Carolina, Alexan Murdaga. He was
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Speaker 2: ultimately convicted in the double murder of his wife, Maggie
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Speaker 2: AND's son Paul. Immediately he tried to change the narrative.
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Speaker 2: What does that mean? That's the now talk of getting
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Speaker 2: someone to change their story, because right at the get go,
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Speaker 2: we've been told and again I welcome the multimillionaire dad
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Speaker 2: to come on and clear all this up.
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Speaker 1: But apparently Renner's a millionaire dad.
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Speaker 2: Tristan Renner goes to work trying to cover up his
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Speaker 2: son's alleged involvement Renner and his business partner.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead and rope in your buddy.
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Speaker 2: In this allegedly hand out NDA's that's a non disclosure agreement,
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Speaker 2: and push a story that the son, the millionaire son
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Speaker 2: Talon Renner, having thrown the first punch, that the victim
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Speaker 2: is truly to blame. Okay, I don't understand that now
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Speaker 2: claiming that his millionaire son has been bullied, well, when
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Speaker 2: it's just that's completely bast awkwards.
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Speaker 1: I mean, can't you go to jail for witness tampering?
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Speaker 5: Ray Well, Phoenix, Arizona's a big town, nancy, but they're
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Speaker 5: going to have to import lawyers from all over the
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Speaker 5: country for all the extra defendants, including parents and business associations,
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Speaker 5: potentially for the quote unquote changing the narrative slash cover up.
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Speaker 5: But what you're clearly trying to set up is a
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Speaker 5: self defense accident case that perhaps a fight broke out
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Speaker 5: between two young men over a disagreement and a young
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Speaker 5: man fell and as a doctor said, get his head
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Speaker 5: on the back of the back of the head on
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Speaker 5: the concrete and I my son may have struck welcome,
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Speaker 5: But there's a causation issue as to which blows cause
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Speaker 5: the fatality, again shaping the narrative, shaping their opening statement
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Speaker 5: for trial.
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Speaker 7: But again there's going to be a lot.
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Speaker 5: Of This is a Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty
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Speaker 5: four for Metro Phoenix.
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Speaker 2: The Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty four. Hold On,
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Speaker 2: is that Gorniac? Yes, it is Gordia, doctor gordieat hold
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Speaker 2: on before I lose my train of thought here, of course,
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Speaker 2: because I'm scared right now. Did you hear what Raymonds
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Speaker 2: you to Chay just said and he completely said it
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Speaker 2: with a straight face.
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Speaker 1: Okay, this kid was beaten.
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Speaker 2: He was down on the ground, still being beaten, still
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Speaker 2: being punched until.
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Speaker 1: He dies, he dies. Why am I angry?
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Speaker 2: Because my son and my daughter are the same age
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Speaker 2: as this boy.
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Speaker 1: They go to parties and you heard you to Chay,
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Speaker 1: just spin it. He's spinning it. You don't like what
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Speaker 1: he says.
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Speaker 2: I don't, But that's what's gonna happen in court, and
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Speaker 2: District Attorney, you darn well better be ready. Did you
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Speaker 2: hear what he says? Changing the narrative? What does that mean?
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Speaker 1: Lying?
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Speaker 2: That's what changing the narrative means that now the victim fell.
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Speaker 2: The victim did not fall. He was punched, and we know,
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Speaker 2: according to witnesses, suit through the front first.
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Speaker 1: Punch he fell. And now we're going to have.
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Speaker 2: A causation issue, my rear end. Gornia, you started this
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Speaker 2: all right now, Judy Sha picked it up and ran
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Speaker 2: with it. That he fell and just died. He fell
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Speaker 2: and died. You know, I've fallen a lot, a lot, running,
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Speaker 2: chasing the children, being a cheerleader. This that I never
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Speaker 2: just died because I fell. But this is the spin out.
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Speaker 1: This is a new.
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Speaker 2: Recitation. History is being rewritten by Gornia. And you know,
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Speaker 2: Gorniac I always agree with you and ju to Shay,
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Speaker 2: that's what's gonna happen at trial.
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Speaker 1: Ray, that's what's gonna happen at trial. What you just did.
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Speaker 12: A tipster notifies police that Talon. Renner admitted to a
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Speaker 12: friend that he threw the first punch. Owen Hines told
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Speaker 12: a friend he only kicked him in the stomach. Nearly
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Speaker 12: all the witnesses point out trust and Billy and Dominic
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Speaker 12: Turner as aggressors due to their distinct costumes that night.
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Speaker 12: Turner wore all black while Billy donned a white suit.
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Speaker 12: Using the suspects, digital media investigators find Taylor Sherman, who
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Speaker 12: admits to taking a video of Preston as he is
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Speaker 12: unconscious on the ground and sending it out on Snapchat.
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Speaker 12: Talan Vigil also sent a message reading I hit a
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Speaker 12: kid and this kid fell hit his head, then they
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Speaker 12: kicked his head in the ground. Then I got word
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Speaker 12: he died.
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Speaker 2: So idy k you were hearing Sidney Sumner from crime
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Speaker 2: online dot com And what stands out to me is
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Speaker 2: that a tipster notifies police that the millionaire juvenile tailor
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Speaker 2: Renter admits he throws the first punch and then it's
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Speaker 2: a free for all with this little boy.
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Speaker 1: Being kicked and beaten dead.
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Speaker 2: Seven young men, including the high school football star talent Renter,
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Speaker 2: aged seventeen, which is important why is he in juvenile court,
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Speaker 2: have been charged in the brutal murder of teen boy
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Speaker 2: Preston Lord. We are also learning that group violence by
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Speaker 2: teens in the Phoenix area is growing, and now there's
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Speaker 2: a huge wave of public of citizens demanding justice that
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Speaker 2: there is not two tier justice.
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Speaker 1: One for the rich man and one for the poor man.
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Speaker 2: But that's what it seems to be shaping up as
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Speaker 2: after local law enforce spent give Talon Renner's parents special
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Speaker 2: valet parking for their tesla at the courthouse, then they
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Speaker 2: had to backtrack and apologize out that's embarrassing. But right now,
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Speaker 2: instead of discussing the dad's tesla, let me bring backhand
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Speaker 2: doctor Jan Gorniac, a renowned medical examiner and high profile
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Speaker 2: lawyer in the Atlanta jurisdiction Raymond Judaica. Doctor Gorniac, you
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Speaker 2: were clarifying your analysis.
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Speaker 11: What were you saying, well, listening to mister Raymond about
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Speaker 11: possibly saying that it was the fall and not the
19:38
Speaker 11: punch that caused his death. In our forensic world, we
19:41
Speaker 11: use a butt for the butt for the punch, he
19:45
Speaker 11: wouldn't have fallen and hit his head. I've had cases
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Speaker 11: where someone swung and missed and fell and ended up dying.
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Speaker 1: And that's still ruled a homicide.
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Speaker 11: So I understand what the defense and might come in
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Speaker 11: and tried to say, but from where I sit, that's
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Speaker 11: still a homicide just because I mean, but for a punch,
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Speaker 11: he wouldn't have just fallen and hit his head.
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Speaker 1: It wasn't like he tripped and fell down the stairs.
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Speaker 11: Something contacted his head to cause him to fall. So
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Speaker 11: that's why, no matter what they come in and say,
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Speaker 11: this would still be ruled a homicide from the medical
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Speaker 11: examiner's standpoint.
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Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, doctor Gorniac.
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Speaker 2: But somebody like Raymond Jiudice is gonna take that thread
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Speaker 2: and run with it till your whole sweater is nothing
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Speaker 2: but a pile of yarn. It's gonna be all over
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Speaker 2: It's like a pack of cats for it up. Because
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Speaker 2: you're absolutely correct, this boy would not be on the
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Speaker 2: ground dying if that first punch had not been thrown.
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Speaker 1: There's your butt four.
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Speaker 2: He's gonna argue at trial, Yeah, he threw the first punch,
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Speaker 2: but he didn't kill him.
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Speaker 1: Well, this is what I would say, is a prosecutor.
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Speaker 2: They're all going in the same pot to stew. Nobody's
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Speaker 2: getting a plea. Everybody is going to trial for murder
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Speaker 2: because I want you, Jerry, to think what it would
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Speaker 2: be like lying on the floor, the ground, the pavement,
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Speaker 2: looking up at all these faces.
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Speaker 1: And halloween masks.
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Speaker 2: This bizarre scenario when you're taking a blow to the head,
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Speaker 2: a kick to the kidney so vicious you end up
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Speaker 2: dying and the last thing you see is this gang
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Speaker 2: of animals over you, dressed in these Halloween outfits, kicking
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Speaker 2: and beating you dead. Oh hell no, nobody is getting
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Speaker 2: a plea.
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Speaker 1: All right, go ahead.
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Speaker 7: Ray, Well, I agree with the doctor. She's an expert.
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Speaker 5: But the argument that I made, which I believe we
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Speaker 5: will have expert testimony to, will at least allow number one,
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Speaker 5: a lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter to a jury. Okay,
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Speaker 5: that's number one. And you know how critical that is.
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Speaker 5: It allows a jury to find for a lesser included charge.
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Speaker 5: It allows a defense to argue that in closing. And
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Speaker 5: I'll bet you dimes to dollars, Nancy, one of these
22:29
Speaker 5: young men's going to take a plea, and now you
22:31
Speaker 5: know how it works.
22:31
Speaker 2: They're not taking a play unless I offer a pla.
22:35
Speaker 2: You can't take a plea. That has to have been offered.
22:37
Speaker 7: They'll take a plea. You wait and see someone's going
22:40
Speaker 7: to offer it. Now.
22:41
Speaker 5: I know you might not offer it, and I agree,
22:44
Speaker 5: I understand how you would play it. But I guarantee
22:47
Speaker 5: you close to trial, somebody's going to roll. Someone's gonna
22:51
Speaker 5: come up and be a state's witness so they can
22:53
Speaker 5: get that murder conviction that you want.
22:55
Speaker 2: Preston Lord died a horrible death deadly beating at a
23:01
Speaker 2: teen Halloween party. In the last days, an alleged member
23:07
Speaker 2: of the so called Gilbert Goon's gang arrested again just
23:13
Speaker 2: after getting a straight probation sentence on another incident. He
23:20
Speaker 2: has never been named as the killer in Preston Lord's case.
23:26
Speaker 2: I would not be happy with just one, and I
23:28
Speaker 2: don't want the rich kid to be the scapegoat. They're
23:32
Speaker 2: all part of this, and you know it's so great
23:35
Speaker 2: about it. They were taking videos, these jackasses technical legal phrase,
23:42
Speaker 2: they're taking videos, bringing in Julie Lewis, digital forensic expert,
23:49
Speaker 2: President CEO of Digital Mountain, Inc. Julie, if anything can
23:55
Speaker 2: make me happy about this scenario, it's the advent of
24:00
Speaker 2: a cell phone.
24:01
Speaker 1: They're all taking videos.
24:03
Speaker 2: Now, how do you think a jury is going to
24:05
Speaker 2: react to a gang attack on a single victim already down, unarmed.
24:10
Speaker 1: Not good, Not good.
24:13
Speaker 13: Those smartphones have a ton of digital evidence. In this case,
24:16
Speaker 13: they're using Snapchat as their messaging app for pictures and messages,
24:21
Speaker 13: and there's a lot of other things like Instagram, social
24:24
Speaker 13: media online that could be looked at. We do that
24:27
Speaker 13: all the time, we do open source intelligence investigations with kids.
24:33
Speaker 13: They have no filter these messages. Also, you have to
24:39
Speaker 13: get them quickly because a lot of these are ephemeral
24:41
Speaker 13: applications like Snapchat. If you do a snap it'll disappear
24:46
Speaker 13: by default immediately unless the user changes it to holding
24:54
Speaker 13: a message for twenty four hours or not at all.
24:57
Speaker 2: Julie, Yes, that was my next question because all the
25:01
Speaker 2: time my twins are went, well, I got so's so Snapchat.
25:03
Speaker 1: I'm like, show me, you know what's gone.
25:06
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're just telling me that yeah,
25:08
Speaker 2: or if it really is gone. Can they retrieve a Snapchat?
25:12
Speaker 2: Can it be retrieved by LA law enforcement?
25:15
Speaker 13: So law enforcement has access to be able to see
25:19
Speaker 13: more on the phones than we can on the commercial side.
25:23
Speaker 13: It's called a physical image, and in that they may
25:27
Speaker 13: be those databases could be decrypted.
25:30
Speaker 2: Okay, you've already lost me. Is that a yes or
25:32
Speaker 2: a no? Can you're saying yes, I can retrieve a snapchat.
25:37
Speaker 13: I'm going to give you a lawyer answer.
25:38
Speaker 1: It depends.
25:39
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm a lawyer. I can try a murder case
25:42
Speaker 2: doing what you're doing. They didn't teach me that in
25:45
Speaker 2: criminal law. So I just need a black and white.
25:47
Speaker 2: Is there a chance I can get those snaps back?
25:49
Speaker 1: It's possible.
25:50
Speaker 13: So it's similar to having a camera in your office
25:53
Speaker 13: that's randomly taking screenshots. There are parts of the phone
25:58
Speaker 13: that store things in something called memory, and so it depends.
26:02
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what.
26:02
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to work with you, as I've
26:04
Speaker 2: told many a witness, because you're not helping me.
26:07
Speaker 1: Right now, all right, I gotta narrow.
26:09
Speaker 2: This thing down and get an answer that when I
26:11
Speaker 2: say a jury will understand, I mean that I will understand.
26:14
Speaker 2: And quick question, Alexis terest and I want Julie Lewis
26:17
Speaker 2: to hear this. It's not just the snaps, Alexis. These
26:22
Speaker 2: jackasses bragged they sent texts back and forth. There are
26:28
Speaker 2: not just snaps which can disappear, but there are texts.
26:33
Speaker 6: Yes, text messages where the kids are saying, I hit
26:36
Speaker 6: the kid. He hit his head. The other kids jumped
26:38
Speaker 6: on the ground. I think he died. Another one, Talon Renner, says,
26:42
Speaker 6: I got in a fight with a kid. I hit him.
26:44
Speaker 6: I think he died. I didn't even know my own strength.
26:48
Speaker 6: Another kid writes, bro that kid died. They know it,
26:52
Speaker 6: and they're saying also, one of them said, do not
26:54
Speaker 6: delete the video because you can use that and you
26:58
Speaker 6: can get ten thousand dollars. This the ten thousand dollars
27:01
Speaker 6: the FBI announced as a reward, so you can use
27:03
Speaker 6: that and you can get the money. So they're all
27:06
Speaker 6: admitting they knew that there was video of this murder.
27:09
Speaker 1: Bragging.
27:10
Speaker 2: Did I just hear Alexis Tereschuk say bragging and deleting evidence?
27:18
Speaker 2: Did I hear that was somebody bragging? And did someone
27:23
Speaker 2: ask for everyone to delete or not delete evidence?
27:28
Speaker 6: They were bragging to each other. They were messaging each other,
27:30
Speaker 6: not just pictures on Snapchat, messaging each other. They and
27:34
Speaker 6: then another kid wrote to the kid that had the
27:38
Speaker 6: video who had taken video at the fight, and said, dude,
27:41
Speaker 6: don't delete that video because you can get ten thousand
27:44
Speaker 6: dollars because the police had offered a reward for it.
27:46
Speaker 6: So they're saying, your video could be given as evidence
27:50
Speaker 6: and then you could win, not win, you can get
27:52
Speaker 6: the reward of money. So they are clearly stating there
27:56
Speaker 6: is video of the murder and that they should not
27:59
Speaker 6: delete it because as it can be used to help
28:01
Speaker 6: them get money. No, oh, this is going to help
28:03
Speaker 6: our friend go to jail. This is going to take
28:06
Speaker 6: the bad guys out. But you're going to get money.
28:07
Speaker 6: You're going to cash in on this.
28:09
Speaker 1: You know what.
28:10
Speaker 2: The jury is going to have a bad taste in
28:12
Speaker 2: their mouth about all of these guys. That is why
28:16
Speaker 2: defendants very often will seek a severance. In other words,
28:19
Speaker 2: they want to be tried separately from each other. But
28:22
Speaker 2: if it's not a death penalty case, and there are
28:24
Speaker 2: no interlocking statements where one defendant bring blames the other defendant,
28:32
Speaker 2: if the state doesn't use those, these guys are going
28:34
Speaker 2: to be tried together. Why is that significant, Because let's
28:38
Speaker 2: just pretend Alexis and I rob a bank and I
28:42
Speaker 2: blame Alexis.
28:43
Speaker 1: Because of course it's going to be her fault.
28:45
Speaker 2: If we're tried together, she won't be able to cross
28:49
Speaker 2: examine me on me blaming her, because I'm certainly not
28:53
Speaker 2: going to take the stand. No way that denies her
28:57
Speaker 2: under the sixth Amendment of her right to confront the
29:01
Speaker 2: state's witnesses. Even though I'm a defendant and a bank robbery,
29:04
Speaker 2: I'm still a state's witness. So if the state chooses
29:08
Speaker 2: not to use those interlocking confessions, then they can be
29:13
Speaker 2: tried together. And what I advise to the state not
29:16
Speaker 2: there they care what I think, but don't use the statements.
29:20
Speaker 2: You don't need them. You've got video people. Try them
29:24
Speaker 2: all together again. Stu in the same pot, I want
29:29
Speaker 2: to address to Julie Lewis, digital forensics expert CEO Digital Mountain.
29:36
Speaker 2: What about what Alexis just told us that a lot
29:39
Speaker 2: of these communications were not a picture, which is normally
29:43
Speaker 2: what snapchat is.
29:44
Speaker 1: But a written message. How about those?
29:47
Speaker 2: Please give me a yes note, do not go into
29:49
Speaker 2: digital land.
29:51
Speaker 1: Just tell me. Can I get those messages back? Okay? Well,
29:54
Speaker 1: oh here she goes, go ahead.
29:56
Speaker 13: Well, I just want to educate a little bit. So
29:58
Speaker 13: snaps can be video and pictures, and then there's chats
30:03
Speaker 13: which are also on Snapchat, and it's Snapchat is meant
30:08
Speaker 13: to delete things fairly quickly, so snaps are usually a
30:11
Speaker 13: media fault in the chats are within twenty four hours.
30:15
Speaker 13: But don't forget about the need of message on the
30:18
Speaker 13: phone as well. So there's all these different messaging apps
30:21
Speaker 13: that teenagers use, and you got to look at them
30:23
Speaker 13: all because there could be more evidence there in the
30:25
Speaker 13: photos and pictures and all sorts of stuff that are
30:28
Speaker 13: your treasure trove. What is a native message, that's what's
30:31
Speaker 13: the messaging app on the phone that comes pre installed.
30:34
Speaker 13: That's not a third party out.
30:36
Speaker 2: Okay, so you mean like it's not snap, so the
30:40
Speaker 2: phone itself may contain evidence. Okay, let's see our defense
30:45
Speaker 2: attorney expert Raymond's udica. So you know all that stuff
30:49
Speaker 2: you were saying, let me get in my notes. I
30:51
Speaker 2: think I threw them away. All your theory about oh,
30:55
Speaker 2: he just fell and just died because he.
30:58
Speaker 1: Fell, and what did you say?
31:00
Speaker 2: Oh, I've got to find there's going to be a
31:03
Speaker 2: quote causation issue. A causation issue translation, the defense is
31:08
Speaker 2: going to claim that the beating inflicted by these seven
31:12
Speaker 2: people is not why the guy died. This little boy
31:15
Speaker 2: died because he fell, all right, that's where he's going.
31:18
Speaker 2: But what about the videos? What about the text messages?
31:24
Speaker 2: What about the messages via Snap And as Julie said,
31:27
Speaker 2: the message is native to the phone. That don't just
31:31
Speaker 2: disappear on a third party app. You think you might
31:34
Speaker 2: be in a little hot water.
31:35
Speaker 7: Now it's the timeline.
31:36
Speaker 5: You're going to start with those nine to one one
31:39
Speaker 5: recordings and you're going to move. As our legal technical
31:43
Speaker 5: out and expert just stated, all of these emails and
31:47
Speaker 5: text messages and photos will have a time stamp, and
31:50
Speaker 5: a good prosecutor is going to surgically one after another
31:55
Speaker 5: set out the time frame. Quite frankly, the prosecutor and
31:58
Speaker 5: the team's biggest problem maybe having too many texts and
32:02
Speaker 5: statements coming from who knows who. But again, sometimes Nancy,
32:06
Speaker 5: when there's not a severance and you've got seven co
32:09
Speaker 5: defendants with high priced legal counsel, confusion. I hate to
32:14
Speaker 5: use it, but that's part of the tense strategy. It
32:18
Speaker 5: wasn't me who punched him that caused the death causation.
32:22
Speaker 5: It's co defendant Johnson who kicked him in the stomach
32:26
Speaker 5: that caused the death. And that's what you're going to
32:28
Speaker 5: see at trial. One quick thing one quick thing. I
32:32
Speaker 5: think they're all going to be treated as adults and
32:34
Speaker 5: tried and as you call it, big boycourt. However, the
32:38
Speaker 5: option of taking a defendant a co defendant and treating
32:42
Speaker 5: him as a juvenile is a very enticing situation for
32:48
Speaker 5: a plea bargain.
32:51
Speaker 7: Keep that in mind.
32:51
Speaker 2: That's interesting because I've never been enticed ever to allow
32:55
Speaker 2: a killer to play it out in guy. I'm not
32:59
Speaker 2: happy about the situation, but I did try a thirteen
33:02
Speaker 2: year old for murder in adult court.
33:05
Speaker 1: Did I like it?
33:06
Speaker 8: No?
33:07
Speaker 1: Was in my duty? Yes?
33:08
Speaker 2: Did he get convicted, Yes, because he jumped into a pawnshop,
33:12
Speaker 2: stole a handful of dolt ropes gold chain, shot three people,
33:17
Speaker 2: killing one and leaving the other one in a wheelchair
33:20
Speaker 2: in a colostomy back for the rest of his life.
33:22
Speaker 2: Hell no, he's not being treated as a juvenile. That said,
33:27
Speaker 2: I've never heard of too much evidence for the state,
33:31
Speaker 2: but thank you for floating another defense theory.
33:40
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
33:46
Speaker 2: It's called one of America's best places to raise children,
33:49
Speaker 2: but the brutal, deadly beating of a sixteen year old
33:53
Speaker 2: boy Preston Lord, highlights a disturbing issue teen violence in
33:59
Speaker 2: araz Zona suburbs. These kids have been given everything, fed
34:05
Speaker 2: with a silver spoon, and this is what happens this perp.
34:10
Speaker 2: Twenty year old Jacob Pennington confessed to police he was
34:16
Speaker 2: part of the Gilbert Goons, claiming the name originated from
34:21
Speaker 2: a Snapchat group. Now this is according to police documents.
34:25
Speaker 2: The group has been officially designated as a gang.
34:30
Speaker 1: What took so long? Now?
34:32
Speaker 2: The police chief explains, the Gilbert Goons are a quote
34:37
Speaker 2: hybrid gang because they rely on social media and there
34:42
Speaker 2: is no real code of conduct that you find in
34:45
Speaker 2: a lot of gangs.
34:47
Speaker 1: But I do know this.
34:48
Speaker 2: The Gilbert Goons have been involved in at least ninety
34:51
Speaker 2: five assaults in eighteen separate attacks, most in Gilbert. Now
34:57
Speaker 2: that's what I learned. According to the Arizona Republic, Gilbert, Arizona,
35:01
Speaker 2: it's a very wealthy Phoenix suburb and it was once
35:06
Speaker 2: touted as the second safest city in the whole country.
35:10
Speaker 2: But it's been all over the news because of these
35:13
Speaker 2: teen delinquents allegedly terrorizing the community.
35:16
Speaker 1: As far back as twenty twenty two.
35:20
Speaker 2: Videos of teen attacks and claims made by victims about
35:25
Speaker 2: this gang's reign of terror now in the hands of police.
35:30
Speaker 2: The woman who made the initial nine to one one
35:33
Speaker 2: call tried to get help for the teen boy victim.
35:37
Speaker 1: Listen to her nine to one one call.
35:39
Speaker 9: Can we please get an officer at the corner of
35:42
Speaker 9: one hundred and ninety.
35:43
Speaker 4: Seventh Place in Beda Palmers. There is got to be
35:46
Speaker 4: at least two hundred and fifty kiss here. They're walking
35:49
Speaker 4: the streets. We're not used to this. I'm not used
35:51
Speaker 4: to this in my neighborhood for.
35:53
Speaker 2: Being here twenty five years.
35:54
Speaker 3: There's too many cars. These kids are going to hit
35:57
Speaker 3: each other.
35:57
Speaker 8: Someone's gonna get her.
35:58
Speaker 4: Someone's gonna get real.
36:00
Speaker 2: Gina Pinatello, the neighbor who called nine one one, Jina,
36:07
Speaker 2: tell me what happened.
36:08
Speaker 8: We live at the entrance of the subdivision, and there
36:11
Speaker 8: were dozens of dozens upon dozens of cars parked back
36:16
Speaker 8: to back every side of the street coming in and
36:20
Speaker 8: out of the subdivision. Teenagers, large groups of teenagers walking everywhere.
36:26
Speaker 8: You know, in a normally quiet neighborhood. It was kind
36:28
Speaker 8: of shocking to walk out and see it's kind of
36:30
Speaker 8: mass crowd forming and coming in and out of the subdivision.
36:35
Speaker 8: So my husband and I immediately said we might want
36:38
Speaker 8: to call the police. And as soon as we're saying that,
36:41
Speaker 8: we see the police actually come into the subdivision. Within
36:44
Speaker 8: another five to ten minutes, we watched the police circle
36:46
Speaker 8: the block and leave, and you immediately started teams just
36:50
Speaker 8: continued to fill the neighborhood. You could clearly see students
36:54
Speaker 8: or children walking with bottles cans, appear to be intoxicated somewhere, yeah,
37:00
Speaker 8: you know. And then we started to.
37:03
Speaker 1: See accidents yelling what ga.
37:06
Speaker 8: You know they were they were yelling things like, h
37:09
Speaker 8: don't get drunk kids, you know, just appearing intoxicated and
37:13
Speaker 8: holding what looked like hands up in the air, you know.
37:17
Speaker 8: So you could see this was starting to get rowdy
37:20
Speaker 8: as in the streets. And then within a few minutes
37:23
Speaker 8: of that, you started we started seeing accidents. So now
37:26
Speaker 8: they're jam packed in this neighborhood. Some are trying to
37:29
Speaker 8: get in and out of the subdivision. You can't even
37:31
Speaker 8: turn off the main road, and they start rear ending
37:34
Speaker 8: one another. They might hop out quickly look and then
37:38
Speaker 8: they're driving away from these accidents. We hear another accident
37:42
Speaker 8: down the road, and then within seconds we start seeing
37:45
Speaker 8: groups of teens jumping over our back fence, so coming
37:49
Speaker 8: out of our backyard, jumping into our front yard, running
37:52
Speaker 8: into cars, and I said, this is getting out of control.
37:56
Speaker 8: H We've got to call nine to one to one,
37:58
Speaker 8: and that's and we need the police back here. And
38:00
Speaker 8: that's when I made my call. And when I made
38:04
Speaker 8: that Calligue didn't know at the same time the attack
38:08
Speaker 8: on Preston and the other young boys was taking place.
38:12
Speaker 6: At that scene exact.
38:13
Speaker 2: Time with me is Gina Pignitello who was speaking out, a.
38:18
Speaker 1: Boy is dead.
38:20
Speaker 2: Instead of graduating from high school and going on all
38:25
Speaker 2: these college tours, it's over for him. And it's not
38:30
Speaker 2: just him that's gone, his parents' hopes, their dreams, all
38:35
Speaker 2: their energy, all their love, all their money and to
38:39
Speaker 2: their boy, Preston. Lord, when did you learn, Gina Pignitello,
38:47
Speaker 2: that a boy had been essentially stopped dead in your neighborhood.
38:53
Speaker 8: Yeah, my neighbors and I actually didn't learn the details
38:56
Speaker 8: until Monday. So this occurred Saturday evening and we didn't
39:03
Speaker 8: learn the details until Monday. You know, we began kind
39:07
Speaker 8: of neighbor sharing text and the gofund me, Oh my goodness,
39:10
Speaker 8: this poor young man is fighting for his life. And
39:12
Speaker 8: then within a few hours we learned that that he
39:15
Speaker 8: had died. Yeah, just we could have never you know, imagined.
39:22
Speaker 2: The parents were in it was their super Bowl, their
39:28
Speaker 2: son was coming into his own all those years of
39:33
Speaker 2: love and nurturing and now this when you learned about
39:38
Speaker 2: what happened to Gana, What were you told? Did everybody
39:41
Speaker 2: know who did it?
39:43
Speaker 8: Pretty immediately I like to call them the kind of
39:47
Speaker 8: parents of the East Valley began sharing and setting up
39:53
Speaker 8: We've heard these names, We've seen these snapchat messages. Groups
39:57
Speaker 8: started forming because we were getting no answer. But I
40:01
Speaker 8: can tell you within those first few days, that first week,
40:04
Speaker 8: the names we saw that were arrested were the same
40:07
Speaker 8: names we saw within those first few days we heard
40:11
Speaker 8: about the families like the Renters taking their son to
40:15
Speaker 8: hide him up in the mountains, hide injuries. These parents
40:18
Speaker 8: that began gathering all this information, much of what was
40:22
Speaker 8: in the police report, we were learning and had and
40:25
Speaker 8: we're getting videos within that first week of this incident
40:28
Speaker 8: happening and.
40:29
Speaker 2: Joining me now esteemed forensic psychologists doctor Sherry Schwartz. She
40:35
Speaker 2: specializes in capital mitigation and victim advocacy. You can find
40:40
Speaker 2: her at panthermitigation dot com and she's the author. She
40:44
Speaker 2: literally wrote the book on criminal behavior and another book
40:50
Speaker 2: where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank you
40:54
Speaker 2: for being with us, I was saying at the beginning,
40:56
Speaker 2: doctor Sherry, And I'm sure you can say much more
40:58
Speaker 2: eloquently than I can. People do things in a group
41:03
Speaker 2: they wouldn't normally do on their own.
41:06
Speaker 1: Do I care?
41:07
Speaker 2: No, I care that this boy is dead and as millionaire,
41:11
Speaker 2: the millionaire at defendant's father has been hiding him out
41:16
Speaker 2: and a million dollar golf cabin. There's such a thing
41:19
Speaker 2: as flight after a crime, where you hide from law enforcement.
41:23
Speaker 2: That never looks good. I want to talk to you
41:25
Speaker 2: about the group mentality here and whether it actually relieves
41:29
Speaker 2: anyone of responsibility.
41:31
Speaker 1: Well.
41:32
Speaker 14: I work, also, Nancy, on a lot of juvenile direct
41:35
Speaker 14: file cases. When I say direct file, basically what I
41:38
Speaker 14: mean is they're charged as an adult, and in my experience, no,
41:42
Speaker 14: it doesn't absolve them of legal responsibility. I think people
41:46
Speaker 14: can argue it doesn't absolve them of moral responsibility. I
41:50
Speaker 14: expect that super some super lawyers like Ray Judice will
41:53
Speaker 14: come forth with arguments about juvenile brain and how their
41:57
Speaker 14: brain isn't fully developed and this can account for some
42:00
Speaker 14: of the behavior. And there's group dynamics at work as well,
42:04
Speaker 14: such as mob mentality. There's always at least one or
42:08
Speaker 14: two leaders. The larger the group, the less informed the
42:12
Speaker 14: fringe members are. But they go along, they conform with
42:15
Speaker 14: the behavior. But still at the end of the day,
42:18
Speaker 14: under the legal system, in my experience, this doesn't really
42:22
Speaker 14: much matter. They're going to be held accountable just the
42:25
Speaker 14: same as the person that started the brawl.
42:29
Speaker 2: Teens and young men, including goon suspects now charged with
42:34
Speaker 2: the murder of Preston Lord. Members of the community up
42:37
Speaker 2: in arms, claiming these perps should have been taken off
42:40
Speaker 2: the streets a long time ago.
42:43
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,