Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #258: Paul Brueske-University of South Alabama

Transcript

#258: Paul Brueske-University of South Alabama · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:28
  That you would press play once again.
• 0:30
  You know we are getting past 250 episodes.
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  That's a lot. I'm super excited about our
• 0:36
  current season, season five and the guests we have and the
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  guests that are coming up. I just want to send a a
• 0:41
  recommendation if you will. So there's 200 plus past coaches
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  that have been here. You know, this is going on for
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  over 4, getting close to five years.
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  Now go back and look at the backlog that we've had.
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  There are many, many amazing coaches that you would love to
• 0:55
  listen to that are episode 20 and episode 100 and episode 2
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  O1. Go back and check it out so that
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  you're not missing some really amazing men and women who choose
• 1:05
  to be track and field coaches. And Speaking of that, we got one
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  today and this guy today is a lot of fun because not only is
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  he an amazing coach, we're going to talk about it.
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  Really an interesting journey. You're going to learn the
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  pretty. I think this might be one of the
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  unique you know after 250 there's not many unique ones but
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  this one might be really unique in regards to college and high
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  school and college and coaching. And I I think you're going to
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  get a lot out of it and I've been friends with this guy for a
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  long. So means we're old a long long
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  time here. So help me welcome the head
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  coach of the University of South Alabama, the Wise, the wonderful
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  Mr. Paul Brewski. Paul, how are you Sir?
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  Good, good. Glad to be here.
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  Yeah, you embody the wise and wonderful because not only
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  hopefully if we get time today about track and the amazing
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  things that you've done there, but you do some pretty
• 1:50
  interesting unique off the track activities that are I I think
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  would shock a lot of people who don't know.
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  I think everybody who does know what are is always a little
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  shocked and so hopefully we'll get some some time to to delve
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  into that passion that you have off the track as well, man, how?
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  How's life in Mobile, man? You know, I'm a Troy grad, so
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  it's always a little hard. You know, I've had a U A/B
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  coach, I've had an Alabama coach, Auburn.
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  It's always hard to have some of these other schools in there.
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  How's life down in Mobile treating you?
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  Good, good. Love mobile.
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  Everything's going great. You know, my dad taught business
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  at Troy University, so you know, he had fond memories there and
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  everybody I've talked to who's gone to school there have
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  enjoyed their their time there as well.
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  So we're all friends and track and field a little more
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  cutthroat and football and basketball.
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  But I I enjoy the coaches there at Detroit.
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  Good, good group of people. They are good people.
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  I agree. And I always knew that your dad
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  was the the smarter of the brewskies there.
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  So I get it. Hey, let's hop in because I want
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  to your your story. You know I've known you for a
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  long time. Your story is really unique.
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  In fact there's parts of it. I really don't know the
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  beginning of it. So let's start there.
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  Why don't we talk about how does where does track?
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  How does track start with you, whether it was an as an athlete,
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  do you tell me where? Where does track start for you?
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  Well, I went to I grew up in Gulf Breeze, FL and started
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  doing track as a a freshman at Gulf Breeze and great coach,
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  Bucky Stringfellows. My high school coach always had
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  real competitive teams at Gulf Breeze and I had some good role
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  models, guys that were you know upperclassmen that took track
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  and field seriously and we were always had a pretty competitive
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  team. So that's kind of where it
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  started. I enjoyed competing immensely.
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  I did football track and and weightlifting in Florida and
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  when it came time to college I I decided to come to South Alabama
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  and Steve Thomas was the coach there at the time and things
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  have changed quite a bit. He was a basically a one man
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  show of a Grant assistant and he he allowed me to be on the team,
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  gave me a great opportunity and you know that that's when I from
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  Coach Thomas is where I, you know became interested in
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  training and to think he was a very good technical coach and
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  still is, but that that was that my senior year I wasn't setting
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  the world on fire as an athlete, but I continued.
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  Is this is this senior year high school or college?
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  Senior year of college Okay in South Alabama.
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  Let's back up. Sorry.
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  No, it's all good. Let's go back to high school,
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  cuz I'm always interested. We know what you are today.
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  You're a college track coach in high school.
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  First of all, were you? I know you said played football
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  and powerlifting. Were you a thrower?
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  You know you're one of them. Yes.
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  Throws coaches. Were you a thrower as as well?
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  I I was, yes I I did the discus and a little bit of shot put but
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  that that's you know, that's what I did.
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  And so when you were thinking about going to college and you
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  ended up going to South Alabama, which I don't think I knew that
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  you were an alumni because I really have a a soft spot in my
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  heart for alums who'd coach at their alma mater's.
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  It just seems more authentic. You chose that school.
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  So when you go to recruit it's, you know it's there's a
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  different spiel to it when you're talking to a recruit than
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  someone who's, you know, it's just a job in a in a workplace.
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  I really do love that. When you were going to college
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  and you're thinking about going to college, what were you
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  thinking about becoming? You know, I I don't necessarily
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  hear that you were thinking about I'm going to be a track
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  coach. I'm going into study kinesiology
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  or whatever. What was the thought back as an
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  18 year old? Oh man, I was I was a big fan of
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  the movie Lethal Weapon Man, The Lethal Weapon, Mel Gibson and
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  all. I was going to be like a a cop
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  or a a Secret Service agent something like that.
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  In fact, in college I I, I majored in I was a double major
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  in criminal justice and political science and I actually
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  interned with the US Marshals Service my going into my senior
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  year and that's what I was going to do.
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  But at the time, the baby boomers were still there was
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  still a lot of baby boomers working and they hadn't reached
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  mandatory retirement age. So there was no opportunities
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  other than the US Border Patrol. And I was actually hired by the
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  US Border Patrol, you know, midway through my senior year
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  and applied, went through the thing and they, you know,
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  offered me a job. And I I accepted initially, but
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  then I they wouldn't tell me where I was going to live.
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  And and I don't know if this is what I I started having second
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  thoughts about, you know, living on the southern border and being
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  a Border Patrol agent. So but yeah, that's why I did.
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  I as as a senior in college, I would you do my internship
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  during the day or do do track practice.
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  And when I was an intern at the US Marshals Service back then,
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  they would, I would shackle prisoners and fingerprint them
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  and do interviews on them and escort them to the the federal
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  court room and all their stuff. So your.
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  Internship. Yeah.
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  And and and they don't do stuff like that now.
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  But I mean it was crazy. These were federal prisoners and
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  I would go in there and all right, let's go guys.
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  And I put shackles on them. And.
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  Yeah, and and I I, I really disliked it.
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  I mean it was just these guys were some of these guys were
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  awful. There were some, I guess, guys
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  that probably made some bad decisions, but I didn't like it,
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  that it was a very negative, somber atmosphere.
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  And I and I said, man, that's not me.
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  It was it was depressing, so. We're we're actually
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  interviewing interview candidates right now.
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  Actually I have one later on today for marketing and and
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  sales. And so you know, I'm going to
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  give them that story. But like, hey man, this, this is
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  internships can be a lot easier than some other internships that
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  I've heard. Yeah.
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  That's amazing. It turned me off.
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  It turned me off to that profession.
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  Here I am now in my senior year, what I have aspired to do all of
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  a sudden I'm like, man, I I don't know if I want to do this
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  and and what do I do? You know, I've said I've said
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  this 100 times. It is ridiculous to me that we
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  make 18 year olds choose their majors and therefore there's
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  supposed career path. This is a great example of you
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  finally got a taste of what it really is, not just classroom.
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  And you're like, Oh my God, I think I made a mistake.
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  Yeah, yeah. And I was scared.
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  I said, what am I going to do? But it's funny how, you know,
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  things work out during my senior year.
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  You know, my track career wasn't really progressing like I had
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  hoped as an athlete. But I, you know, I continue to
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  do it. And and and and Steve Thomas
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  kept me around, but he also allowed me to you know, practice
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  earlier in the day and I started coaching part time at UMS Wright
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  Preparatory School mobile. I I started off a guy named
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  Chris Nemeth was the head football coach there and and he
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  gave me an opportunity to coach middle school football, which I
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  did. I enjoyed it.
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  So this is pretty fun. It's not you know, he just, he
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  knew me from when I was in high school in Northwest Florida and
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  knew while I was there and he gave me an opportunity.
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  Well, McGill High School which is just down the street from Old
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  Shell Rd. they knew that I was coaching football at UMS and
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  they had an opening for a track coach and one of my teammates,
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  Father Angelo Harris, who was a long time coach at McGill Toolen
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  Catholic High. He gave me an opportunity to
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  come over there and coach track on a part time basis.
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  So that's where it kind of started.
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  I started coaching my senior year of college and thankfully I
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  had you know Coach Thomas allowed that and worked with me
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  and and and let me do that and so I I I really enjoyed that.
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  And then and at the same time as I'm enjoying that, I'm having
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  second thoughts about this, this law enforcement career.
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  Yeah. You you mentioned you you
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  mentioned on the law enforcement the kind of, I'm gonna call it
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  the depressive side. You know it's we're dealing with
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  people who make bad decisions. You're in prison things like
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  that. Did you find an immediate, I'm a
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  I'm a call it the opposite sunshine effect when you first
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  stepped out and actually started coaching other young people?
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  Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't call it sunshine effect because you know
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  there's going to be some negativity in that too.
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  But you're helping people and I like the idea and and and and
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  look, God love them. The law enforcement are are
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  doing a tremendous service for the community and our nation and
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  and and I have nothing but the utmost respect for good law
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  enforcement. But it was just it it was just a
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  negative vibe to me and and and I I I don't like being around a
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  lot of negativity. I'm still like that today and
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  whereas in track and field you know you're you're helping
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  people and and I I feel good about helping people, helping
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  them reach their goals, helping them be goal oriented and
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  hopefully develop some skills that will help them in in life.
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  So you're, I love that. And you know, for those of us
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  who know you, it's like, oh, that makes a lot of lot of
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  sense, actually. You know it it it's on brand as
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  some of the cool kids might say. So senior year first of all we
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  have to give some props to Steve Thomas.
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  You know, he might be one of the more unknown great coaches in
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  our great sport. You know, no nonsense, really
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  good technical coach who has been around Florida, Mississippi
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  State. Now last you know, South Alabama
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  has done an amazing job. And really, I remember the time
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  at South Alabama when he was the one man show and and let me tell
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  you what, that that was a good team for one dude trying to do
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  it at all. Yeah, I I I still look back and
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  I just like, you know I've been in situations you know where
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  where it was 2 coaches when I was at Ferris State University
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  later on we'll get to that but it was me and and and and and
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  the head coach and that was that was tough.
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  You know how he did it. I I don't know it's it's
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  amazing. And he was very good knowledge
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  of all the the different events. Oh, no doubts.
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  No, no doubts at all. OK, so senior year you're
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  having, for lack of a better term, second thoughts on the
• 12:43
  career because of the internship you're coaching.
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  That seems to be a little bit better, a little bit more of
• 12:48
  your style of helping people. We're being positive, things
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  like that. What do you I mean you still
• 12:53
  graduate and got to got to figure out am I going?
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  To go find a job. Yeah, yeah.
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  I got to find a job. So, so you know, I I go to
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  Angelo Harris the the long time head coach at at McGill and
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  again his daughter Jenny was a teammate of mine at South
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  Alabama and I said look I I, I I don't, I don't want to join the
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  Border Patrol. I'm having a second thought but
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  I got to have a job. I said is there anything
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  available at McGill too. I didn't have a teaching
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  certificate, so he said yeah, let me, let me work on that.
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  So they hired me. They offered me a job as it was
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  kind of I still wasn't sure maybe I might get into law
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  enforcement, maybe not. I just wasn't sure.
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  I knew I didn't want to do the Border Patrol so.
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  So they gave me an interesting job.
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  I was the in school suspension coordinator, the retract
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  coordinators they called it. So I dealt with the kids that
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  got in trouble during the day. I decided to go to grad school
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  and I got a master's. I was working on a master's
• 14:00
  degree in public administration and I coached football, freshman
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  football was the head freshman football coach and I coached
• 14:07
  track and field at McGill Toolen Catholic from that would have
• 14:11
  been 98 to 2000 And I really enjoyed it.
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  I mean I it was it was wonderful, you know and the in
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  school suspension part was it was OK but but it allowed me
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  during that time, basically I was in study hall all day and I
• 14:32
  could do all my schoolwork. So I would do my schoolwork have
• 14:37
  practice the afternoon and couple nights a week I would
• 14:40
  take graduate classes in the evening and it was you know, I
• 14:43
  wouldn't have been much fun. A lot of my buddies, I, I
• 14:46
  graduated 4 years. A lot of my buddies were on the
• 14:49
  five and six year plan and enjoying life and I was getting
• 14:52
  up first thing in the morning and going down to McGill Toolen
• 14:55
  Catholic High and yeah, so that's that's how I got, that's
• 14:59
  how I got into coaching and and I still wasn't sure, you know if
• 15:02
  I was going to do coaching or or do something with the you know
• 15:06
  be like a federal agent or something.
• 15:08
  But I enjoyed it and I said man I really started taking an
• 15:11
  interest and it's anything I do I try to be I try to do it the
• 15:15
  right way and at that time I started really studying buying
• 15:21
  books educating myself on and and and I had the benefit of the
• 15:27
  USA track and field coaches Ed program that was very helpful
• 15:31
  but I was studying and reading and you know doing the training
• 15:35
  theory and and and I would go out to at the time Brad Bowman
• 15:39
  was the head coach at South Alabama he took Steve Thomas's
• 15:43
  place there and I would go out and you know even though I
• 15:46
  wasn't really a Sprint guy I would go out and watch the
• 15:49
  training and you know pick his brain on training stuff that
• 15:54
  they did and anything to do with with training whether it was
• 15:58
  weights or speed or any of that I was I was a real sponge for
• 16:03
  and I was just trying to constantly improve my my
• 16:06
  knowledge of that. So I'm glad you brought that up
• 16:08
  because that that was a question I wanted to kind of delve into
• 16:11
  you. You know, I know you as a very
• 16:12
  technical coach and not just technical with the throws.
• 16:16
  You talked about the weight room and you know you and I have had
• 16:18
  discussions about sprinting and jumping like you really like.
• 16:24
  You have a different mind frame when it comes to to training and
• 16:27
  athletes and and the whole picture and and you mentioned
• 16:30
  how this is now starting really early in your career.
• 16:33
  You're you're devouring every book coaching education.
• 16:35
  Where does that come from? Where does that?
• 16:38
  Like I'm going to throw myself in and learn it because you'd
• 16:41
  have been excused to just coach the way you were coached which
• 16:44
  by the way was pretty high level Steve Thomas for crying out loud
• 16:47
  in in your high school side even.
• 16:49
  But where does that like? OK, I am going to try to learn
• 16:53
  it all, so to speak to if I'm going to do this.
• 16:59
  Well I I've always considered myself to be fairly competitive.
• 17:06
  I I want to win and it goes back to being the best you can be and
• 17:11
  and and you know as an athlete I I wasn't I wasn't the most
• 17:15
  gifted athlete and so I was always trying to figure out a
• 17:18
  way to get the most out of what I had and so that you know part
• 17:25
  of it's there and I was looking at this stuff even as a high
• 17:27
  school kid. I mean, I when I was in 8th
• 17:30
  grade, I I subscribed to Powerlifting USA magazine and I
• 17:33
  was just kind of a different, a different guy, you know, on
• 17:37
  that. So I've always had an interest
• 17:38
  in in training and and and that sort of thing 'cause I wanted
• 17:44
  to, I wanted to be successful. And how come you never changed
• 17:49
  academically in college like? Never went.
• 17:52
  Oh, I looked at if I had to do over again.
• 17:54
  Now again, I don't know why I always had an interest in
• 18:00
  training, even even like I said, even as a middle school kid.
• 18:03
  But I don't know. I kind of wanted to be a, you
• 18:06
  know, like an action guy, like, you know, a Secret Service agent
• 18:12
  or a customs agent or something like that.
• 18:14
  One of my friend's dad's was AUS customs agent.
• 18:18
  He used to tell me about his job and I just thought that was
• 18:21
  really cool. And honestly, if I would have
• 18:22
  had that opportunity to be a customs special agent with a
• 18:26
  customs service at A at a college, I may have that.
• 18:29
  I may have done that. It's just and again at the time
• 18:32
  the the baby boomers were there's a lot of them and
• 18:34
  they're just what many opportunities and and I just was
• 18:38
  in that age bracket when I came out that but it all worked out
• 18:41
  for I think for the good because I I I very much like my chosen
• 18:47
  career path. Yeah, you you wouldn't be on
• 18:49
  this podcast if you'd have gone that route.
• 18:51
  So it this is working out pretty good.
• 18:52
  All right. So you're working at McGill
• 18:55
  Toolen. You're kind of you.
• 18:56
  You know a common theme we do hear amongst coaches a lot of
• 18:59
  times when they first get into coaching is they they cobble a
• 19:02
  lot of jobs around to coach until the big break.
• 19:07
  You know air quotes there. So you're in school suspension.
• 19:10
  You're you're doing your own master's school.
• 19:13
  You're you're coaching football and track what?
• 19:19
  How do you what's the big break or is there a big what's the
• 19:22
  next step after as you continue through that right?
• 19:26
  I wouldn't call it a big break, but you know, I I said, man, I
• 19:29
  kind of want to coach college, you know the the the McGill
• 19:33
  thing. At the time, there wasn't any
• 19:34
  teaching opportunities and I wasn't going to just do in
• 19:37
  school suspension for the rest of my life.
• 19:39
  So I started applying for college jobs.
• 19:42
  In fact, during that time period I you and I talked.
• 19:45
  I was looking at possibly you were the head coach at Neosho
• 19:49
  Community College and you called me up and you're telling me
• 19:53
  about that. I'm like.
• 19:54
  Well, I said. Do you want to make $500 a
• 19:56
  month? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:58
  And I'm like, I was seriously considering it.
• 20:01
  And basically be in school suspension, you had to be the
• 20:03
  dorm monitor as well. So that's basically kind of the
• 20:05
  same thing. Yeah, and I was.
• 20:09
  I was very serious about that. But I got an I got an interview
• 20:15
  or I got a job opportunity. I couldn't get it, you know, not
• 20:19
  being a national champion or all American and and I just there
• 20:25
  wasn't a lot of opportunities to to break into college coaching.
• 20:28
  I didn't. I wasn't Aga anywhere and and
• 20:32
  this was kind of a a late career change or or early career change
• 20:38
  however you want to do it, because I was still young.
• 20:40
  But a guy named Jeff Cavaloon just at Ferris State University
• 20:46
  offered me an opportunity to go to Michigan, to Big Rapids, MI
• 20:51
  and be the field events coach at Ferris State University which is
• 20:56
  the division two school in the GLIAC conference.
• 21:00
  And I was just so excited that a college would give me an
• 21:05
  opportunity. It wasn't a whole lot of money
• 21:08
  at all. And you know, it was far away
• 21:12
  from home. But I said, you know, I'm, I'm
• 21:14
  up for the adventure and I went and visited there in August,
• 21:18
  which Michigan, Central Michigan in August is absolutely
• 21:21
  beautiful. I mean just gorgeous, great
• 21:23
  climate. Everything was just, I'm like,
• 21:25
  wow, this is great. Meanwhile, I was still in the,
• 21:29
  you know, starting football season in Alabama, sweating my
• 21:32
  head off and hot and humid and all that.
• 21:35
  And I said, man, this is great. My dad, who's from Michigan, I'm
• 21:39
  sorry, my dad's from Minnesota. He was shaking his head.
• 21:43
  He's like, you know, you don't have any idea.
• 21:46
  It's August, but it's August. Yeah, and I, you know, I visited
• 21:50
  the North, but I hadn't spent much time during the winter.
• 21:54
  I'd never really been through snow or anything because I grew
• 21:56
  up on the Gulf Coast and my dad, who grew up in Minnesota, knew
• 22:00
  all about it. He would tell me stories but it
• 22:02
  didn't register with me. So I took the job and it starts
• 22:07
  off great and I guess around late October it starts starts
• 22:13
  snowing. We start moving indoors, not
• 22:15
  seeing the sunlight and but I enjoyed every second of I I
• 22:20
  didn't, you know, I thought I knew a little bit about track
• 22:25
  when I went up there, but I didn't.
• 22:28
  I learned a lot up there and you and you were competing against
• 22:32
  in the gliac. It's still a great conference
• 22:34
  but yet Grand Valley State coach Baltes was just getting started
• 22:38
  at at Grand Valley State and had a tremendous program even then.
• 22:43
  And Judd Logan the late Judd Logan at at Ashland And I'm
• 22:48
  right off the bat I'm like whoa, you know I I had to really step
• 22:52
  it up and you know I came in and I luckily I had a some good
• 22:57
  athletes and had some success. But I I I had a I had to learn
• 23:02
  on the fly and and I had to coach pole vault the the
• 23:05
  horizontal jumps. In fact I used to contact you a
• 23:09
  little bit. Hey man give me some advice on
• 23:10
  triple jump. I don't know if you remember
• 23:12
  that because I didn't do any of those events and and and what a
• 23:16
  great experience it was and I think unfortunately a lot of
• 23:19
  college coaches today, you know everybody kind of specializes in
• 23:24
  an event area and at Ferris State it was a tremendous
• 23:28
  opportunity. It was a tremendous amount of
• 23:30
  work, but I coached the vault, I coached the the horizontal
• 23:33
  jumps, the high jump, the throws.
• 23:35
  Did all of that and it was, it was really good and and and and
• 23:40
  and the kids got better, you know, the kids at work and were
• 23:44
  coachable, got better and I learned a lot.
• 23:46
  So it was invaluable experience and I'm very grateful to Coach
• 23:51
  Cavalunas for giving me that opportunity at at Ferris State
• 23:56
  University and I still have friends in Big Rapids, MI.
• 24:00
  I wound up visited a few years ago, great place really cool
• 24:05
  school and I'm forever grateful for that opportunity.
• 24:09
  But you know after two years I was really missing Mobile and I
• 24:14
  was really missing the Gulf Coast.
• 24:16
  My family lives still is in in Northwest Florida and IA lot of
• 24:20
  friends down here and I said man I you know this you know I had
• 24:24
  some interviews at some different universities and and
• 24:28
  pretty good at opportunities but I miss Mobile and I was down
• 24:32
  doing a a summer track clinic or camp and Pat Galley who's been
• 24:39
  at Ulms Wright preparatory School as a track coach for 52
• 24:43
  years still coaches there. It's amazing he he offered me a
• 24:48
  job at Ulms Wright. OK, pause.
• 24:52
  There to come in and. Yeah go go back to fairs cause
• 24:55
  one of the things that I love to do with the podcast with our
• 24:58
  different guest here is I like the bust myths And one of the
• 25:02
  myths out there is that high school coaches can't coach
• 25:06
  college. There's many many excuses not
• 25:09
  reasons, excuses they can't recruit.
• 25:11
  They don't know how to coach that level, yada, yada, yada.
• 25:14
  Now, typically when we see a high school coach that moves on
• 25:18
  to the college level, they're more of what I would call
• 25:20
  airport to your traditional high school coach, meaning they're a
• 25:23
  high school teacher. They've done it for 5678 years.
• 25:26
  You know, they've recruited those hallways, they got a
• 25:28
  great, great team, etcetera. You're a little bit less
• 25:32
  traditional. You weren't teaching there.
• 25:33
  You know, you're doing the ISS and things like that.
• 25:36
  What do you think it was with Coach?
• 25:38
  I'm so sorry. Tell me the coach, Ferris
• 25:40
  State's coach name Cavali. At the time, it was Jeff
• 25:44
  Cavalunas. Cavalunas, what do you think it
• 25:46
  was with Coach Cavalunas that I'm going to say he took a
• 25:49
  chance on you, but what? Why?
• 25:51
  Why you? What did he see in you that you
• 25:54
  don't even coach half the events?
• 25:55
  By the way, what was it about? He was like, yeah, you know
• 25:57
  what? I'm.
• 25:58
  I'm going to take a chance on this guy.
• 26:00
  I don't think he had a lot of other candidates, to be honest.
• 26:05
  To be real Frank, I don't think he had much much.
• 26:08
  There wasn't a whole lot of interest in the position at the
• 26:13
  time and I think that position is is is improved and I think
• 26:16
  they're paying better now and and but at the time that was you
• 26:22
  know I don't think there was A to be real frank and honest I
• 26:25
  don't think he had a lot of opportunity.
• 26:26
  So it worked out for me and like I said I I had some all
• 26:31
  Americans there some D2, all Americans some conference champs
• 26:34
  and and learned how to coach Poe Volt.
• 26:37
  I would you know, it was funny at the time I would.
• 26:43
  I had a VAVCR right by my bed. I had a basement apartment in
• 26:48
  the Big Rapids and I rented from this retired professor and.
• 26:56
  But anyways, I had this VCR and a television right by my bed and
• 26:59
  I would watch Earl Bell pole vault videos and I would watch
• 27:04
  these different, you know, VHS or VCR tapes.
• 27:11
  Each night I would play and memorize the cues and watch, you
• 27:14
  know, the plant drills and all these things that were foreign
• 27:18
  to me, 'cause I never did any of that, but I wanted to I really
• 27:21
  wanted to help our athletes out. So I I, I did the best I could
• 27:27
  to learn it and and and they all improved tremendously.
• 27:33
  You know I again I was my knowledge was limited that that
• 27:37
  pole vault's a funny group because when you go every go to
• 27:40
  attract me and this is not a slight against pole vault
• 27:44
  coaches but man I've never been around a bunch of know it alls
• 27:48
  when you go to meet they're all experts and they all you know.
• 27:54
  And so, yeah, so it's. Interesting for me.
• 27:56
  Coach Bruce can be reached at PBRUE.
• 28:02
  No, no, but I mean I learned a lot man.
• 28:05
  And and and I guess my point on that is all these pole vault
• 28:09
  coaches at these meets, they they they they they come up and
• 28:13
  they want to help you in, in teaching and I learned a lot
• 28:16
  from them but I guess that's my point.
• 28:18
  It wasn't meant as a a a slide, but yeah.
• 28:22
  I am curious. You know, we we want to bring as
• 28:23
  much value as possible to those who choose to listen and I think
• 28:27
  that coaches get this opportunity, at least this
• 28:30
  opportunity is presented to them quite often, this opportunity of
• 28:33
  coaching other events. I think to your point, I think
• 28:36
  you made a great point there about, you know, we we we tend
• 28:39
  to specialize. We tend to pigeonhole ourselves.
• 28:42
  Myself, I'm thinking back to when I interviewed with Sue
• 28:46
  Parks at Ball State University coming off of Neosho County and
• 28:50
  you know, I was a sprints and hurdles coach.
• 28:51
  You know, I had to coach the long and triple and things like
• 28:55
  that. And then Neosho, I had to count,
• 28:57
  you know, much like your time. I had to coach everything.
• 28:59
  You know, I go to, I go and I interview and I remember, you
• 29:02
  know Sue, who is also a Gil podcast, you mentioned Dud Logan
• 29:07
  as well, another podcast alone that that that back library that
• 29:10
  I'm talking about, guys and gals, it's stacked.
• 29:12
  It's stacked. You got to go back and listen to
• 29:14
  these amazing people. I remember Sue was an amazing,
• 29:18
  you know, 815 hundred runner, but also a really good high
• 29:22
  jumper back in the day. I knew that during my research
• 29:24
  going into the interview, right. And so when she was talking
• 29:26
  about the events that she would want me to coach you know some
• 29:29
  of the sprints and hurdles multi long jump, triple jump and the
• 29:33
  high jump and I was like yeah you know that probably better
• 29:37
  for you coach. And she's like no, I really want
• 29:41
  to focus on the distance runners.
• 29:43
  You know this position needs to to do you don't have to do pole
• 29:45
  vault. We have our, you know we have a
• 29:46
  pole vault coach which I was like oh thank God I don't at
• 29:48
  least I got that off my plate. But I remember there was a a
• 29:51
  good 5 minutes in this in in the interview and I am pushing back
• 29:54
  going you know I think maybe you should do that.
• 29:56
  I did not want to to learn that. It just was out of my comfort
• 30:00
  zone. Right.
• 30:01
  So I lost that battle by the way.
• 30:03
  She's like, no, you're going to coach.
• 30:04
  You know you're going to at least give it a try.
• 30:06
  And you know if we have to make changes, we'll make changes.
• 30:08
  But yeah, she didn't give me that safety net which that's not
• 30:10
  very superxious but she did give me that safety net.
• 30:12
  Anyway, I go there and lo and behold I'll still take stay this
• 30:15
  today in 2024 high jump is my favorite event to coach now like
• 30:19
  I just, I I much like you dove into it.
• 30:21
  Watch the tapes called a lot of people you know Cliff Ravalto.
• 30:26
  Hey Cliff, how do you do it. You know, you're one of the best
• 30:28
  high jump coaches and really fell in love with the challenge
• 30:32
  of coaching the high jump. So I think that is presented to
• 30:36
  a lot of coaches. But there is a lot of fear, some
• 30:38
  rightfully so. You know, it's always the fear
• 30:40
  of the unknown. You seem to have like talk to us
• 30:44
  about your mindset. Was there any fear of like, Oh
• 30:46
  my God, pole vaulty? I don't know about pole vaulty.
• 30:48
  And what did you do about it? You already kind of gave one
• 30:50
  example of like, well, you know what?
• 30:51
  I pressed the play on the VHS at every sink at night.
• 30:55
  Yeah, every night. Every night.
• 30:56
  I did it. I mean Earl Bell.
• 30:58
  And, you know, I and I talked to Drew Bentley, who's, you know,
• 31:05
  very good high school coaching and and mobile.
• 31:08
  And I would call him, hey, man, what do I need to focus on?
• 31:10
  The run and the plant. And that's what I did.
• 31:13
  My guys, I, you know, they had good runs and they had good
• 31:16
  plants. But yeah so I just were you
• 31:21
  fearful of it again uncomfortable not fearful I was
• 31:27
  uncomfortable with with with with some of the jumping events
• 31:30
  and and but I but I again I I I felt obligated to learn as much
• 31:36
  as possible. I I really don't like it when
• 31:39
  when coaches and you see this a lot at at at different levels
• 31:43
  where I'm not really this or that and it it's like they they
• 31:47
  just use it as a cop out not try and learn.
• 31:50
  And I and I've always said you know if I was in high school and
• 31:53
  they made me coach the soccer team I I would probably quit at
• 31:57
  the end of the year. But but I'm going to go and try
• 32:00
  and and and be the best soccer coach I possibly can and there's
• 32:03
  so many resources now that aren't weren't available to US
• 32:09
  25 years ago. I mean, even Instagram, I, you
• 32:13
  know I'm bad about scrolling through but I I love seeing the
• 32:17
  different drills and and sometimes it reminds me of a
• 32:21
  drill I did ten years ago and got for whatever reason got away
• 32:24
  from oh that would be perfect for the problem that so and so
• 32:27
  is having right now so. You you mentioned with your
• 32:30
  pole. Vaulters.
• 32:31
  They they were going to be really good run UPS and really
• 32:34
  good planters. I hear the basics on that and
• 32:37
  and that's not a a slam, that's a good thing.
• 32:40
  Did you kind of use? That I just focused on that
• 32:42
  because I didn't. You know the pole vault is is a
• 32:46
  tough one and I'm really blessed to have have some great worked
• 32:51
  with some great pole vault people Drew Bentley at McGill
• 32:54
  Toolen he he was just starting there when I when I did and at
• 32:59
  at at at South Alabama I had Randy Flock when I first got
• 33:03
  here who was a great pole vaulter himself and did a great
• 33:07
  job or vaulters and then Lyndall Farmer who's our current vault
• 33:11
  coach but Aaron James who's a pole vault guru he still helps
• 33:16
  us out on a part time basis. So I I you know, I I I because
• 33:21
  of that experience that I had coaching and I've always made
• 33:24
  sure that a lot of schools shy away from pole vault, but I I
• 33:30
  think pole vault it's important to have good pole vaulters in
• 33:35
  what I'm trying to do so. You you had some really good
• 33:38
  throwers there as well. I remember you had a Did you
• 33:40
  have, if I'm memories right, did you have a really good, like an
• 33:44
  outstanding women's discus thrower?
• 33:46
  Is that? Yeah, I mean, for the time she
• 33:48
  was pretty good. She's actually her name is Tiana
• 33:52
  Kirkland and she actually coaches basketball at University
• 33:56
  of Illinois now. Oh no.
• 33:58
  Way, but she was on the yeah, she was on the.
• 34:01
  She was on the she was on the track team.
• 34:04
  She did track. And we had two or three of
• 34:08
  volleyball and basketball players that were really good
• 34:11
  athletes at Ferris State. It did two sports and we would
• 34:15
  you know get them after basketball season or whatever.
• 34:17
  But Tiana I had, I was real fortunate to have her and and
• 34:21
  and she was an All American and shot disk and AD 2, all American
• 34:25
  and then she got into coaching basketball and she's done quite
• 34:28
  well with that. I don't I need to reach out to
• 34:30
  her. I haven't talked to her in a
• 34:31
  long time but last I heard she was at Illinois and I think
• 34:34
  she's been there for for a while.
• 34:35
  So, yeah, Outside. Very.
• 34:38
  She says like, well, I have to reach out.
• 34:39
  She's right here in in my town. Yeah, that's cool.
• 34:42
  So do you. Think Tiana.
• 34:45
  And you know we're we're, as we continue through the journey,
• 34:47
  we're going to learn just again many, many other Tiana's, many,
• 34:49
  many other great athletes that you've coached.
• 34:52
  Do you think this early 'cause this is still early in your
• 34:55
  career here. Do you think this early force
• 34:59
  meant that you, you know, I want to say you're forced into it of
• 35:01
  having to learn pole vault, high jump, long triple, etcetera.
• 35:04
  Do you think that made you a better throws coach as well in
• 35:07
  some form or fashion? Or is it just like?
• 35:10
  There's there's so many commonalities between all the
• 35:14
  field events and and and and believe it or not there's even
• 35:17
  when it comes to training theory there's commonalities you know
• 35:21
  with seemingly totally different of any areas like distance and
• 35:25
  throws. I mean there's there's some
• 35:27
  general principles in training theory that are are somewhat
• 35:30
  similar but I think those commonalities helping and it may
• 35:33
  be you know whether it's the jab when you're talking about the
• 35:36
  block and you think about the pole vault or the high jump.
• 35:40
  You know there's there's there's some things there and the
• 35:43
  rhythm, the sort of fast rhythm and all the field events are are
• 35:46
  similar but I I do, I think it it it it it was very helpful.
• 35:51
  Would would you recommend young? Maybe not even maybe we take out
• 35:55
  the word young. Would you recommend to other
• 35:58
  coaches to at least, you know, depending on their age and stage
• 36:01
  of their career, dabble in other events?
• 36:03
  At least pay attention, Yeah. And and and man, I you know I
• 36:08
  have a kind of a secret desire to coach the multis but I just
• 36:13
  it just not working out for me to do that here.
• 36:16
  So I I love coaching the throws but I I really have worked with
• 36:20
  a a couple occasions work with some heptathletes and man that
• 36:24
  was a lot of fun. But no I think I think for a
• 36:27
  young coach you need to and and and I've tried to tell guys I've
• 36:31
  had to come in as GAS or whatever.
• 36:33
  I really encourage them. They people get in their comfort
• 36:36
  zones and what they know and what they were taught and they
• 36:39
  don't want to branch out. And I, you know, I tell my
• 36:43
  coaches all the time, said man, you know by you learning the the
• 36:47
  jumps and the hurdles and these technical events you're you're
• 36:52
  making yourself a more valuable commodity and you're giving
• 36:56
  yourself for potential. You know employers if you move
• 37:01
  on, I think you're you're making yourself a more valuable coach
• 37:05
  for a staff because you can do multiple things.
• 37:09
  And again, I think that's one of the unfortunate developments and
• 37:14
  track and field used to have guys like Jerry Clayton, Steve
• 37:16
  Thomas and and and who could coach everything and now you're
• 37:22
  seeing less of that. You're everybody's specializing
• 37:25
  and it used to be you know when they have split programs when
• 37:28
  you and I started off the SEC was still mostly split gender
• 37:34
  divided and you would have a field coach a running events
• 37:38
  coach and a distance coach something like that and you know
• 37:43
  you had to coach everything. I mean Rod Tiffin at Alabama he
• 37:47
  coached everything you know and and I and you know he's a heck
• 37:51
  of a coach but you're seeing less and less of that because of
• 37:54
  the way we have set up. So it's it's it's a positive
• 37:57
  because I think you're seeing some really incredible
• 38:00
  performances at the in the college level now by the
• 38:03
  specialist coaches. But I think there's, I think
• 38:06
  there's something lost there, you know, with not having the
• 38:10
  opportunity to coach those other events.
• 38:12
  Yeah, it's a good point there. Certainly an argument versus
• 38:15
  going extremely deep into one area of track and field or its
• 38:19
  throws, jumps, whatnot versus being a generalist.
• 38:23
  And I tell you, you know some of the top coaches that we've had
• 38:26
  from Brooks Johnson, Harry Mara, they talk about you're not a
• 38:30
  throws coach, you're not a sprints coach, you're a track
• 38:33
  coach because of a lot of the similarities that you talked
• 38:36
  about amongst all the events. You know, I I've heard people
• 38:38
  argue that javelin is more of a horizontal like a long jump,
• 38:41
  triple jump than it is and it is a rotational like the disk is
• 38:44
  shot and hammer. So, OK, so you're.
• 38:47
  Definitely. You're up in Ferris.
• 38:49
  You're you survived 2 winters up there.
• 38:52
  Bravo. That's that should be.
• 38:54
  You know there's your Cub Scout batch that's that's a that's a
• 38:56
  big deal. But you've also you know people
• 39:00
  even at that at this time in the track coaching profession
• 39:04
  scratch and claw and wish and dream to coach college.
• 39:08
  So you you made it, air quotes, you made it, and you decide to
• 39:13
  go back home, and the opportunity to go back home is
• 39:15
  to go back to the high school level.
• 39:18
  Well, yeah, and I have some college opportunities for fairs.
• 39:24
  But at the time, it's gotten better by the time that those
• 39:29
  college assistant jobs weren't paying a ton of money and some
• 39:32
  of the other places, you know, and I asked man, here I am mid
• 39:36
  20s and I don't want to keep living having roommates and all
• 39:40
  that. And I really missed the Gulf
• 39:43
  Coast. I really missed Mobile and so
• 39:48
  then I had this opportunity to work at a really great high
• 39:51
  school ums ride preparatory and with a you know great tradition
• 39:55
  and track and field and and they had some really wonderful
• 39:58
  athletes at the time and man I I I I you know what what what
• 40:03
  direction do I want to go. So I I just wanted to go back
• 40:07
  South and and I and and be closer to family and friends and
• 40:12
  and so I I got that opportunity to coach track and football at
• 40:17
  UMS. And right when we get there I'm
• 40:19
  I'm the defensive line coach for the for the football team.
• 40:23
  We win the state championship in football, first year coaching,
• 40:27
  so. Everybody jokes about that now.
• 40:29
  I just kind of. Yeah man, So I I I enjoyed that.
• 40:34
  I enjoyed that. And the great thing about UMS
• 40:36
  Wright, getting back to this multi sport thing, I I'm not a
• 40:41
  fan of specialization at all. And you know UMS right.
• 40:45
  I love that place because the kids did multiple sports.
• 40:49
  Our football team was our track team was our baseball team.
• 40:52
  I mean, these guys were doing everything and they were good
• 40:54
  athletes, but I think part of the reason why they were good is
• 40:57
  because they weren't specializing.
• 40:59
  They weren't getting burnt out on football or track because
• 41:02
  they were doing other things. Just by the time you know
• 41:05
  football season's over and they're tired of that.
• 41:07
  Well it's track season and they were playing basketball and and
• 41:10
  I I really saw the benefit of being a multi sport athlete and
• 41:16
  I think it's a real travesty that high school not some
• 41:22
  schools really do well with this but it's becoming rare and rare
• 41:26
  their kids are specializing and and and you're seeing a lot more
• 41:30
  injuries you're seeing a lot more burnout Me personally
• 41:35
  because of that experience I I I I like to see athletes that do
• 41:41
  if they don't do multiple sports multiple events in high school
• 41:44
  and I like to see I really like to see a guy that you know plays
• 41:49
  or or or woman that plays multiple sports and I I just
• 41:53
  think that's I think that's really important and I think
• 41:55
  it's a great great value to or benefit to an athlete to do
• 42:01
  different sports and not specialize too soon.
• 42:04
  Yeah, you still don't have a teaching degree, So what are you
• 42:06
  doing besides coaching D line and and track and field?
• 42:09
  What are you doing? You do go back to IS I'm.
• 42:11
  Working on my at that time I no. So I know I I'm I'm I'm I think
• 42:17
  they're my day job I was like the the permanent substitute.
• 42:22
  I think that's initially what my job was and during this time I
• 42:26
  am working on my teaching certification while I'm at
• 42:29
  illness and I and I do get my teaching certification and and
• 42:32
  physical education and social sciences and I I taught.
• 42:36
  It's funny I did everything from elementary PEI had one of the
• 42:40
  coaches was on maternity leave so I had to go and be the
• 42:43
  elementary PE coach man and there was there wasn't any
• 42:47
  physical entertainment in my class man.
• 42:49
  We were on the monkey bars and doing pull ups and I would I
• 42:52
  would have them do sometimes if it was nice out.
• 42:55
  We're not inside playing dodgeball.
• 42:58
  Some of the other coaches like to do dodgeball.
• 43:00
  I wasn't playing dodgeball. I'd let them do a little bit of
• 43:02
  that if after they did their physical activity and and the
• 43:07
  teachers love me because I would run these guys, you know, we
• 43:12
  play arks and minnows and stuff like that and what they didn't
• 43:15
  realize turning it into a game. But we're really doing some type
• 43:17
  of interval training. So anyways at the end of the.
• 43:20
  And then I let then I would have them do you know kickball or
• 43:24
  something fun for maybe the last 15 minutes of class and they
• 43:27
  would go into class and they would be limping back into class
• 43:31
  wore out And the teachers loved it because the other the other
• 43:36
  PE classes were playing dodgeball and the kids are wired
• 43:39
  when they get into in back into class my guys were quiet and
• 43:44
  they were tired and they were the.
• 43:46
  You know. Yeah.
• 43:48
  So that's what I did and teachers are pretty.
• 43:50
  So what are you doing with these This is great.
• 43:51
  They're wore out. Whereas the other classes the
• 43:54
  kids are bouncing off the wall. So you didn't make.
• 43:56
  I had one kid I I really took this as AII had one kid tell me
• 44:02
  because it was tough because the other kids are just playing
• 44:04
  dodgeball all the time. And then one kid came to me and
• 44:07
  he goes, you're the meanest coach ever, you know, because I
• 44:10
  was wearing them out every day. And I'm like, yes, yes I am, you
• 44:14
  know, so you. Didn't make them do square
• 44:16
  dancing, did you? I I never could figure out why
• 44:18
  we had a square dancing in elementary school.
• 44:20
  PE No, there was no. Square.
• 44:21
  No, no. I think we did the same thing
• 44:23
  when I was a kid. But I didn't.
• 44:25
  I don't understand that at all. Yeah, that's.
• 44:28
  I hope that's completely taken out of all that was really.
• 44:30
  Interesting. A lot of those elementary kids
• 44:31
  into the A lot some of those elementary kids ended up being
• 44:36
  college track athletes. So yeah, it was kind of it kind
• 44:39
  of cool. You know I had one guy made in
• 44:41
  the NFL and and I I ended up teaching at UMSI, taught
• 44:46
  nutrition, 7th grade nutrition. And I this was interesting about
• 44:54
  two weeks before class the the print, the then principal came
• 44:59
  to me and said you're going to be teaching economics, talking
• 45:04
  about two weeks before school. I don't know anything about
• 45:06
  economics. So I would go into the same as I
• 45:09
  did with pole vault and I would go into the other teachers who
• 45:11
  taught economics and I'd be taking notes beforehand and, you
• 45:15
  know, just learn as S as I can and just go in and hope no one
• 45:18
  asked too many questions afterwards.
• 45:20
  But yeah, I taught economics and and government and yeah, so I
• 45:25
  did that. You.
• 45:27
  Know I. Remember, and we won.
• 45:28
  We won state championship every year on both genders in track
• 45:32
  and field as well at UMS under Coach Galley.
• 45:35
  I remember this conversation when you're going from Ferris to
• 45:39
  UMS because I remembered specifically you were the
• 45:41
  defensive line coach for some reason.
• 45:43
  I was like, I distinctly remember that and I remember
• 45:45
  having multiple conversations with you over the the years that
• 45:48
  you were there, the state championship and, you know, for
• 45:51
  football and for the tracks and you know the teaching.
• 45:54
  And I remember, like, I was just like, Are you sure, Paul, Like
• 45:57
  when when our first initial conversation, when you're like,
• 45:59
  hey, I'm going to go back and coach high school in Alabama.
• 46:02
  And I was like, man, Are you sure, 'cause, you know, I'd made
• 46:04
  it to college coaching. It was like, you know, like, I,
• 46:07
  I, I, I was so green and naive back then.
• 46:09
  It was like, I couldn't fathom going back to coaching high
• 46:13
  school. I started my career coaching
• 46:14
  high school as well. And I was like, man, you're
• 46:16
  here, Paul. Like, I I know it.
• 46:17
  You know, I know you're making 2 bucks now.
• 46:19
  But man, just, you know, keep going and we're going to be,
• 46:22
  we're going to be head coaches in the SEC one day, right?
• 46:24
  You know the dream, right. And you were like, no, I think
• 46:27
  this is right for me, man. First of all, I do remember you
• 46:29
  saying, you know, hey man, I got to get back to warmer weather.
• 46:31
  I missed the air. You know I need to that's, you
• 46:32
  know, I got to get back there. But but then as you were doing
• 46:36
  it and I remember talking to you during these different
• 46:38
  conversations and a you were having success.
• 46:42
  I don't think at that point I was still equally comparing
• 46:47
  success on high school level as college, you know, to me and now
• 46:50
  today it is this. I don't care that you're
• 46:52
  successful or not successful athletically because you're
• 46:55
  you're impacting young people positively.
• 46:57
  That to me is the most important part, whether they win or not.
• 47:00
  What are you doing for, for these kids that are going to go
• 47:02
  on to be fathers, mothers, business owners, teachers,
• 47:05
  etcetera. But it started, but you you
• 47:07
  were, you were happy. I just remember that there was
• 47:10
  definitely a difference between conversations with you at fairs
• 47:13
  and conversations with you now. And he was like, oh man, I'm
• 47:15
  having a blast. We're doing this and we're doing
• 47:17
  that and the kids are doing these different sports.
• 47:19
  It was like, Oh my gosh, like, I mean, there was a little bit in
• 47:23
  the back of my head was like, did Paul crack the code?
• 47:25
  Like he seems way happier than I am, right?
• 47:29
  Now yeah. And I've talked to yeah, I've
• 47:31
  talked to some guys you know in Alabama there's some guys that
• 47:35
  used to coach at the University of Alabama now coaching high
• 47:38
  school at the Northridge coach for example and and and he raved
• 47:44
  about coaching in high school. Look I I I've been very
• 47:47
  fortunate whether it was McGill Ferris State, Saint Paul's Ulms
• 47:52
  right. I'll talk about Saint Paul's in
• 47:53
  a minute. I've enjoyed every place I've
• 47:57
  been and I was never really looking to move on it just
• 48:01
  opportunities came and and I that I couldn't turn down but I
• 48:05
  was very happy at Ulms and I was just as happy as as I was at you
• 48:11
  know I love the coaching at Ferris State and McGill Toolen
• 48:13
  before that. I I, I enjoy that And to me, you
• 48:18
  know, there's different aspects. There's parts of of college
• 48:22
  coaching that is wonderful and and I like the, you know, where
• 48:26
  we're at at at South Alabama, 'cause you can take a kid you
• 48:29
  see potential in and you can develop them and and that's a
• 48:33
  lot of fun. Where the where you get these
• 48:35
  guys where they're going to and successfully competing against,
• 48:41
  you know, the other conferences of the country.
• 48:44
  So give us some of those opportunities that came at, came
• 48:47
  at you, you were at UMS, you're doing well, you're winning state
• 48:50
  titles, but you? Yeah.
• 48:52
  So I got my teacher, I got my teaching certificate and I said
• 48:56
  man, you know I'm single and I, you know I was at the time I was
• 49:00
  like you know I maybe I should move around a little bit and and
• 49:04
  and I I was offered a job two jobs in Central Florida one at
• 49:09
  Deltona High School. I went down and visited that.
• 49:12
  But you know then then I was offered when I went down there
• 49:18
  Saint Paul's Episcopal School which has been a a powerhouse in
• 49:24
  Alabama high school track for years.
• 49:27
  They caught wind of it and and you know I wasn't you know I was
• 49:31
  kind of I don't know if I want to leave Mobile and I like
• 49:33
  Mobile and so they gave me a a a a great opportunity to come to
• 49:39
  Saint Paul's and and and coach football and track and I was the
• 49:42
  head boys track coach Jim Tate was instrumental the coach Jim
• 49:48
  Tate is now retired but a long time track coach there he he he
• 49:53
  he allowed me to become the head boys coach at at at Saint Paul's
• 49:59
  and he was the women's coach and so I go there and we have a lot
• 50:04
  of really talent. I look at the I have a team
• 50:06
  picture of of the women's team we had there and I you know we
• 50:09
  worked together I helped with the the field of ends for the
• 50:12
  women and he coached the male distance runners and all that.
• 50:15
  So we worked really well together just like I worked with
• 50:17
  Coach Galley at at UFO Mass and man we had so many kids that
• 50:25
  competed at the college level off that team.
• 50:27
  In fact the the the team that I had at Saint Paul's would have
• 50:32
  done very well in the Sunbelt Conference.
• 50:35
  That's how talented we were. We had kids that ran at Duke and
• 50:39
  multiple kids at Alabama UAB. Almost the majority of our our
• 50:47
  team ran collegiately. We have girls a couple girls
• 50:50
  that one girl's an all American at Ole Miss.
• 50:53
  Another girl's a middle distance runner at Ole Miss.
• 50:56
  We just we're loaded with talent and we had some SEC champions,
• 51:00
  some all Americans that were on that team at Saint Paul.
• 51:03
  So man, I was still competing at a very high level at the at the
• 51:07
  high school level, so. Were you still coaching all the
• 51:11
  field events or did you move more towards just the throws at
• 51:13
  this point? I'm coaching the field events
• 51:16
  there and I would help with some of the other events but but in
• 51:22
  Saint Paul's we had more coaches and I was kind of moving back
• 51:26
  more to where I was the head coach and and which is fill in
• 51:29
  as needed but but really more the the getting back to more of
• 51:33
  the throws. Any point of view have an eye
• 51:38
  towards college coaching at this point?
• 51:40
  Or is it like, oh man, I, you know, you got some?
• 51:42
  I was perfectly hold on. I was perfect.
• 51:44
  Some great examples in front of you.
• 51:45
  You talk about coach Galley come on legend Coach Tate.
• 51:49
  Legend. I I mean you've got some guys
• 51:50
  who you you have some like things right in front of you
• 51:54
  that show you that yeah you can coach for 20-30, forty years on
• 51:56
  the high school level and you know have a great life.
• 51:59
  So you have those kind of examples in front of you.
• 52:01
  Any eye towards, like, yeah, but they're still college.
• 52:05
  You know, it was always in the back of my mind, but I just
• 52:10
  didn't see many opportunities at at the college level at that
• 52:13
  particular time and I was perfectly content at at at Saint
• 52:21
  Paul's. I mean, I was honestly was
• 52:23
  planning on just making it a career at Saint Paul's.
• 52:25
  It was a great school wonderful support there and just a great
• 52:31
  place to work just like UMS was just like McGill was and again I
• 52:34
  was happy at all these places so I really wasn't looking but S
• 52:41
  out we we were winning state championships of boys coach of
• 52:44
  the year and all that and at Saint Paul's and and the you
• 52:50
  know at the same time I had kept in touch with Mr. Godfrey.
• 52:54
  Mr. Joe Godfrey who was the athletic director at South
• 52:56
  Alabama. And Pam Young at the time was
• 52:59
  the assistant athletic director and they were having some issues
• 53:04
  and they you know contacted me and say hey would you be
• 53:08
  interested in in in coming back to South Alabama.
• 53:12
  And well you know that was a great opportunity for me to come
• 53:16
  back as you mentioned before to to come back to my alma mater
• 53:21
  and and and so I was about 30 years old and become a head head
• 53:29
  Division One track coach at at my university.
• 53:32
  So and I didn't have to move to do it.
• 53:34
  It's just right down the street. Yeah, that's key right there.
• 53:37
  I want people to hear that. So you went from a head high
• 53:40
  school coach to a head college coach head.
• 53:44
  I don't know that this matters, but maybe this adds to the
• 53:47
  weight of it, I guess. But it doesn't matter a head
• 53:50
  Division, One college track coach.
• 53:52
  It doesn't matter if it had been AD 3-D2 NAI.
• 53:55
  It doesn't matter. He became a head collegiate
• 53:57
  coach. So let's let's talk about the
• 54:00
  myths, right. I told you there's a lot of
• 54:01
  myths that, you know, high school coaches can't coach
• 54:04
  college, etcetera, etcetera. Here you are, You're not even
• 54:07
  going in as the assistant coach and you've got, you know, you're
• 54:09
  an assistant for five, 6-7 years and you learn a lot and then you
• 54:12
  become the head. You sit down at the big boys
• 54:14
  desk right off the bat. What were some things that as
• 54:19
  you look back now, what were some things that were
• 54:21
  challenging of like, oh, OK, never had to deal with this, so
• 54:24
  I had to learn what were some challenging parts?
• 54:29
  Well, you know, anytime you come in and there's the the the
• 54:32
  initial couple years was really tough because we were
• 54:37
  transitioning. You know what what we emphasized
• 54:41
  as far as event areas and it just, you know, it was just that
• 54:50
  my predecessor did things differently than than he was
• 54:57
  successful and a good coach and all that.
• 54:59
  But so you know anytime you have a transition and you're kind of
• 55:07
  you're going to resistance to change.
• 55:10
  So that was tough the first couple years but you know
• 55:15
  fortunately I was able to get in some good recruits and I had
• 55:18
  some good people here at the time to help with that
• 55:20
  transition and and it was tough though I mean the first year or
• 55:24
  so I'm like man I I I may have screwed up I I was doing pretty
• 55:28
  good at at at at Saint Paul's what am I got myself into cause
• 55:31
  a lot more pressure a lot more things like that to deal with.
• 55:36
  So it was a transition, but I stuck with it and it got better
• 55:42
  and better and better and we got some good people in good
• 55:46
  recruits and we started having some success and that was a very
• 55:54
  rewarding so. You mentioned, you know,
• 55:57
  changing the culture of the program.
• 55:59
  Not only the culture as we traditionally think about it,
• 56:02
  but the event, the events that you're going to stress or you
• 56:05
  know put more scholarship into etcetera.
• 56:07
  What about kind of back of the off the back of the house, off
• 56:11
  the track stuff was there, you know scheduling that and you put
• 56:15
  you scheduled probably travel though there that's a
• 56:18
  difference. Scholarship allotments, how did,
• 56:21
  what was challenging there that you had to overcome and you know
• 56:24
  you've overcome it very well, you're very successful now.
• 56:26
  But what were some things that was like, oh man, this is hard.
• 56:29
  Well yeah you you know scholarship distributions and
• 56:33
  and and and you know you know learning how to do that and then
• 56:37
  you know like team travel booking hotels and and so I had
• 56:44
  to do all that initially We didn't have at that time the the
• 56:48
  the number of staff we had was limited so ordering uniforms and
• 56:53
  shoes and and you know going through all that and but with
• 56:58
  time you know we've been allocated more resources and I
• 57:04
  have a you know full staff that makes my life a lot easier but
• 57:09
  it was tough because I was doing all that.
• 57:11
  I remember when I first got here I one day I was coaching the
• 57:16
  pole vault a distance runner. I was timing a distance or and
• 57:21
  coaching the throws simultaneously.
• 57:24
  You know and I'm like I asked like how did Steve Thomas do
• 57:26
  this? I I have no idea.
• 57:28
  But I was. I was I was doing that man
• 57:30
  initially and then I was able to bring in some assistant coaches
• 57:34
  that that that could take that weight off of me and and and
• 57:39
  it's we started you know there was some setbacks here and there
• 57:43
  but for the most part we were moving in the right direction
• 57:45
  and yeah. Yeah.
• 57:47
  And I want to talk about the growth of the program in a
• 57:50
  second, but I want to ask the reverse question because I, I,
• 57:53
  Yeah, I think what you're expressing there about like,
• 57:55
  man, I didn't do on the high school side, you know, I didn't
• 57:58
  do some of these things. And now I have to, oh, and by
• 58:00
  the way, I got to do all of it. Like you had some help probably
• 58:02
  at the high school level. But I want to ask the opposite
• 58:05
  side because it's not 100% you don't know how to do job.
• 58:08
  It's learning on the job. There were some things you're
• 58:10
  very competent at. What did you find easy?
• 58:13
  Like, maybe you even thought it was going to be hard, but you're
• 58:15
  like, oh, OK, I'm used to this. I know how to do this.
• 58:18
  What did you find kind of more easier to do as your new role in
• 58:22
  the head coach of the college? Well, we didn't recruit,
• 58:27
  contrary to popular belief in high school, it didn't really
• 58:31
  recruit. But but you know, I had some
• 58:33
  recruiting experience at Ferris State, so I wasn't completely
• 58:37
  foreign to that. And I did some other things at
• 58:39
  Ferris State. Well so I wasn't completely
• 58:42
  green but I was definitely green and and and I had, I kind of had
• 58:45
  to kind of grow into the position.
• 58:47
  But I you know I really enjoyed recruiting and I didn't some
• 58:51
  people talk about how hard it is.
• 58:52
  I I don't think it's hard at all.
• 58:54
  I think you know it's about you know talking to people.
• 58:57
  I mean as you know I don't have any trouble talking with anybody
• 59:01
  and you know I I look at it differently I'm very honest in
• 59:05
  the recruiting process. I I tell you how it's going to
• 59:08
  be. I don't sugarcoat things and and
• 59:11
  and if I'm going to lose some like that, if what I'm saying
• 59:13
  doesn't appeal to them that's that's fine.
• 59:15
  I'd rather learn that on the front end versus you come here
• 59:19
  and say well you this and this and this and that you know.
• 59:24
  So I like to be very honest and and and and and look for the
• 59:28
  right fit for South Alabama. You know, I think there's a
• 59:31
  right fit for, for, for the, for what we're doing.
• 59:36
  I think that was easy. Did you find much difference in
• 59:39
  the coaching meaning? Well, you had more assistance at
• 59:42
  Saint Paul, in in the UMS when you before, when you first got
• 59:46
  to South Alabama. But the actual athlete you're
• 59:48
  dealing with? 14 to 18 year olds in high
• 59:50
  school, 18 to 22 in college. But the actual just the you
• 59:54
  know, how you coach, how you talk to the athletes, what you
• 59:56
  throw at them, how much did you find?
• 59:58
  Much difference there. Yeah, you know that that that's
• 1:00:03
  the tough. That's the tough part because in
• 1:00:05
  high school you're essentially teaching these kids from
• 1:00:07
  scratch. You know, they may or may not
• 1:00:09
  have a little bit of makodium of experience before they got to
• 1:00:13
  you, but in high school you can teach a kid from scratch and I
• 1:00:16
  enjoy that. I still enjoy.
• 1:00:17
  That's part reason why I enjoy coaching the hammer throw is
• 1:00:20
  most of the kids that I have didn't do it before they got
• 1:00:25
  here. So I can I can teach them the
• 1:00:28
  way I want to teach them and and and guide them right from the
• 1:00:32
  scratch and versus having to undo things that you know that
• 1:00:36
  or or or and there's different ways to do things as you know.
• 1:00:40
  But no that was tough. And you know one of the tough
• 1:00:42
  things about college is you know particularly if you get like an
• 1:00:46
  international athlete that's already been well coached, your
• 1:00:50
  job is to get them better but it but do no harm.
• 1:00:54
  You know you don't want to go backwards and I've seen a lot of
• 1:00:57
  coaches thinking they're going to fix someone's technique and
• 1:01:00
  make them better and make them worse.
• 1:01:02
  So I I've tried and it's kind of it's a science but it's an art
• 1:01:06
  form that you know to get someone who's already pretty
• 1:01:11
  good and and you know you got to keep them going in the right
• 1:01:13
  direction. So that's that's always a
• 1:01:16
  challenge and you got to be careful that you don't over
• 1:01:19
  coach someone and sometimes you think you're going to fix
• 1:01:23
  something and you're going to make it worse.
• 1:01:26
  So I try to, you know I've had some experience with that and
• 1:01:30
  and most of my guys get better, you know, and I I I just think
• 1:01:38
  you got to be careful on that and that's a difference.
• 1:01:41
  Whereas if I get a kid from Alabama that maybe only been
• 1:01:45
  doing the sport one or two years and did multiple sports, you
• 1:01:48
  know I'm going to treat them a little bit differently as far as
• 1:01:53
  how, how I approach their training and technique
• 1:01:55
  development. How many years now does that
• 1:01:58
  answer your question? No, it's perfect.
• 1:02:00
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:02:01
  It's it's good to see people see that.
• 1:02:03
  It's not just when I first wanted to get into college
• 1:02:06
  coaching. I thought it was awesome
• 1:02:08
  because, like, it would be awesome to coach college because
• 1:02:11
  I got to pick everybody who was on my team.
• 1:02:12
  So I'd all, I'd go pick out all the greatest people and you know
• 1:02:16
  you kind of have a smile because you're like, yeah, that doesn't
• 1:02:17
  you know, that's especially, you know I didn't go from you know
• 1:02:20
  coaching high school to University of Florida.
• 1:02:22
  You know I went to Troy. So I was like oh, by the way we
• 1:02:24
  are just starting our program back up.
• 1:02:26
  So did not get the best athletes out of high school.
• 1:02:29
  There's a lot of teaching and things like that and everybody I
• 1:02:32
  wanted didn't come to school at Troy for some reason.
• 1:02:34
  So it's good to see that people understand that the, you know,
• 1:02:37
  the different levels that there is and that there was how many
• 1:02:41
  years now at South Alabama. This is my 17th season.
• 1:02:45
  I came in December of. I came over in December of 2007.
• 1:02:51
  Yeah, OK. So the 2008 spring was my first
• 1:02:55
  season as a as a coach here, but I've been through 17 track
• 1:02:58
  seasons. So in 17 seasons that you've
• 1:03:01
  been there, South Alabama track and field has grown in lots of
• 1:03:06
  different ways. The number of staff you have,
• 1:03:09
  I'm very hopeful that your budget has increased the
• 1:03:12
  opportunities to travel with your team.
• 1:03:15
  I know you've gotten new track surfacing, which you sorely
• 1:03:19
  needed ten years before you got there, by the way, but upgrades
• 1:03:23
  and things like that. There are a lot of people
• 1:03:25
  listening right now that are in different stages of where you've
• 1:03:29
  been in that 17 years. And and not saying that you here
• 1:03:32
  at year 17 that you know, oh, it's perfect.
• 1:03:34
  You have everything, you know, all the budget and all the staff
• 1:03:36
  and yadda yadda. But they're in, you know,
• 1:03:40
  they're in programs where it's high school or college right now
• 1:03:42
  that are starting from scratch, from very little.
• 1:03:45
  Maybe they're in the middle, but they're always working towards
• 1:03:48
  growth. You've had a lot of growth in
• 1:03:50
  the South Alabama program. How has that occurred?
• 1:03:53
  What what what are some things that you did to help bring in an
• 1:03:56
  an extra coach, you know, that you had to prove to your
• 1:03:59
  administration maybe it was just straight fundraising, I don't
• 1:04:02
  know. But there's some things that you
• 1:04:03
  had to do to kind of unlock additions as you've moved up to
• 1:04:06
  where you are today. Help us understand maybe some of
• 1:04:09
  those things that might help other people that are listening.
• 1:04:12
  Well, I think the most important factor of that has been, you
• 1:04:17
  know, the support of our administration starting with Joe
• 1:04:21
  Godfrey and then you know within two years Doctor Joel Erdman,
• 1:04:25
  who's my my boss is athletic director at South Cayman and he
• 1:04:29
  he, he is a just a great athletic director to work for.
• 1:04:34
  And I'm not just saying that because he's my boss because he
• 1:04:36
  he's really good and he's very fair and he's very supportive.
• 1:04:41
  Now he expects results, but he's going to do what with within his
• 1:04:46
  power. He's going to do what he can to
• 1:04:47
  help make sure that we have the things that we need to be
• 1:04:51
  successful. And he's always been very fair
• 1:04:54
  with me and very supportive of of not just track and field but
• 1:04:58
  all the sports. So I can't say enough good
• 1:05:01
  things about him and assistant athletic director, Doctor
• 1:05:05
  McCarthy and my sports supervisor Jason Kelly.
• 1:05:09
  These guys are are are really sharp guys to to work for and
• 1:05:14
  work with and I'm really blessed to to work for some great people
• 1:05:21
  like that. So I think the answer to you is,
• 1:05:24
  is is I say hey you know we're trying to do this and they're
• 1:05:26
  like OK let's see what we can do to support.
• 1:05:29
  So I'm very happy and that's part of the reason why I've
• 1:05:34
  stuck around here for so long. Is, is, is, is that we, we, we,
• 1:05:40
  I talked to some, I'm not going to name names, but I talked to
• 1:05:43
  some people and they don't don't express that sentiment about
• 1:05:47
  their support, their their respective schools.
• 1:05:49
  But I I I feel like I'm very blessed here at South Alabama to
• 1:05:54
  have really good academic and administrative support and and
• 1:06:01
  and really good and you know great thing about doctor Irman
• 1:06:04
  he was a baseball coach so you're you're he he knows kind
• 1:06:07
  of what you're going through as a coach so it's that's you can
• 1:06:10
  talk to him and he he gets it so very blessed to have that that
• 1:06:16
  support So I think that's the main thing right there I mean
• 1:06:19
  they've been very supportive. So I'm hearing good
• 1:06:22
  communication with your administration.
• 1:06:26
  Right. I try not to ask him too much,
• 1:06:28
  you know, but how do you so? When I do it, that's a great
• 1:06:32
  question. How do you balance that?
• 1:06:33
  Because, you know, we all have dreams and wishes of the
• 1:06:36
  totality of everything, right? And and we know we don't want
• 1:06:40
  to, you know, just be like, oh, I'm just happy to be here.
• 1:06:43
  You know, I'm glad they give me a pen right to run the truck.
• 1:06:45
  How do you balance that request slash demands of administration,
• 1:06:50
  pushing your program forward but also realizing you're part of a
• 1:06:52
  a department. It's not all centered around
• 1:06:55
  track and field. That's right.
• 1:06:56
  I mean I I try to just remember that you know you know that that
• 1:07:03
  we're not the only team on on campus but again Doctor Who
• 1:07:07
  makes it easy he's asking you at the end of the year what what do
• 1:07:11
  you need what can we do to help you.
• 1:07:13
  He says every year at the end of your meeting he said what what
• 1:07:16
  can I do to help you and and he and he really tries to do that
• 1:07:21
  so he's again I can't brag on him enough and and it's not just
• 1:07:26
  him I think you know our senior women's administrator Jenny
• 1:07:29
  Frisbee Jason Kelly who's my sports supervisor they're
• 1:07:33
  they're all the same way man And so I don't I don't have to I
• 1:07:37
  don't really ask for much I try not to because they I don't have
• 1:07:42
  to they they they we cover that at the end of the year meeting
• 1:07:45
  each year and they we work towards doing that and sometimes
• 1:07:49
  it might take a little bit of time but they've always
• 1:07:52
  delivered. I love an administration that is
• 1:07:56
  always asking you, hey, So what else do you need now?
• 1:07:58
  I'm not promising it, but if I if I don't know what you need,
• 1:08:01
  well, I can never. I'm just guessing.
• 1:08:03
  So help me out. I love that.
• 1:08:04
  What a what a great that. We we have projects that we're
• 1:08:07
  working on now. Yeah, that's a big star fear.
• 1:08:11
  Administration. We have projects that we're
• 1:08:12
  working on now. Yeah we we got projects that
• 1:08:15
  we're working on now. We're expanding the track weight
• 1:08:17
  room. So you know we're that's
• 1:08:20
  something we're moving towards and and and and you know working
• 1:08:24
  towards raising the funds to to do that and and make those
• 1:08:27
  improvements. So again, there's no complaints.
• 1:08:31
  One more question before we go off the track to talk about it.
• 1:08:34
  Just a fascinating subject to to wrap up today.
• 1:08:37
  But so before we get there, tell me, you know, I, I grew up in
• 1:08:40
  the Alabama system, Alabama high school track and field and then,
• 1:08:43
  you know, many years at Troy University and now I've got, you
• 1:08:46
  know, really good friends, best friends at the head coach of
• 1:08:49
  South Alabama University of Alabama.
• 1:08:52
  You, you know, just all over Sanford.
• 1:08:54
  You know, Rod's an amazing guy. Just some really great coaches
• 1:08:57
  in that state. What makes South Alabama
• 1:09:01
  different? You guys, you know, you're a
• 1:09:03
  thorn in my side as a Troy alum. You know, I see kids that you
• 1:09:06
  get them like, well, God bless, why don't they go to Troy and,
• 1:09:09
  you know, I see, you know, team results.
• 1:09:10
  You guys have had some fantastic success.
• 1:09:12
  I'm like, man, what makes it different?
• 1:09:15
  What makes it special? Is it all about the beach?
• 1:09:20
  Well, you know, there's not. I started thinking about this.
• 1:09:23
  There's not a lot of universities in the country that
• 1:09:26
  are so close to the beach. We we've got Dolphin Island,
• 1:09:31
  Orange Beach, Gulf Shores, Pensacola Beach is not far away.
• 1:09:35
  So we're right on the Gulf Coast.
• 1:09:36
  I think that's a a selling point.
• 1:09:38
  But you know we have some kids from the Midwest that you know
• 1:09:41
  that was a big selling point, but it's not as big a selling
• 1:09:45
  point as you would think. But I definitely point that out
• 1:09:50
  and that's something unique about South Alabama is our
• 1:09:52
  location even warm weather it's a young university it we're only
• 1:09:57
  60 in fact this is our 60th anniversary.
• 1:10:01
  So it's I always described it as a young and upcoming university
• 1:10:04
  and because it's young we have modern facilities.
• 1:10:07
  You know our dorms are are are new and and we don't have these
• 1:10:12
  200 year old dormitories where everybody's sharing the bathroom
• 1:10:16
  when the down the hall. I mean it's modern facilities,
• 1:10:19
  modern buildings and it's it's it's really exciting how far
• 1:10:25
  this university has comes in the 17 years I've been here.
• 1:10:28
  I mean when I have old teammates or alums that come back and
• 1:10:31
  visit they're just shocked especially ones that haven't
• 1:10:34
  been here in 20 years how much building and development the
• 1:10:38
  campus our campus is really nice campus now and it and it's it's
• 1:10:42
  improved so much over the years and yeah so the the you know we
• 1:10:48
  got great academic programs we're one of two medical schools
• 1:10:51
  and the the state of Alabama we got it one of the largest
• 1:10:56
  nursing schools in the in the country.
• 1:11:00
  You know we we've got a comprehensive degree program, so
• 1:11:05
  it has everything. I always tell recruits that we
• 1:11:07
  have everything that you need to be successful academically and
• 1:11:12
  athletically. And we've had national champions
• 1:11:14
  here and we've had Yon Lo Kazi was was a first team all
• 1:11:19
  American, the discus row and had the highest GPA of any athlete
• 1:11:23
  at the NCAA championships a few years ago.
• 1:11:26
  So we've had a lot of really good success.
• 1:11:28
  We've had kids in the US Olympic trials.
• 1:11:30
  We've had Olympians and you can be successful at South Alabama
• 1:11:37
  for sure. But no, this is, this is my
• 1:11:40
  home. I mean, I love South Alabama.
• 1:11:42
  It's more than a job to me because I went to school here, I
• 1:11:45
  got my undergrad degree, my master's degree, I'm working on
• 1:11:49
  a second master's degree in history right now.
• 1:11:52
  So it's just a just a really great place so.
• 1:11:56
  Well that's a a great segue to the off the track conversation.
• 1:12:00
  I'd like to have and explore. You know a lot of time if you
• 1:12:05
  listen to the podcast you know I I work very hard at delineating
• 1:12:10
  that you know the person who chooses to be a track coach.
• 1:12:14
  I, I, I, I sometimes think you know my experience when I talk
• 1:12:16
  to coaches around the country is we make this coaching role our
• 1:12:21
  number one thing. It becomes our entire identity
• 1:12:25
  and we forget about other roles like being a mother or father or
• 1:12:30
  a brother or a sister or a son or a daughter, you know, other
• 1:12:34
  roles like your passions and charities, things like that.
• 1:12:37
  And so one of the more interesting parts to me about
• 1:12:40
  Paul over his coaching throws, which he does an amazing job and
• 1:12:45
  I love watching his athletes, unless it's at conference, I
• 1:12:48
  don't like watching them then. But but Paul, so you're getting
• 1:12:51
  a second degree in history. And not only are you a history
• 1:12:58
  buff, it's one thing to be someone who likes history.
• 1:13:01
  You have taken that not one Step 2.
• 1:13:05
  Step three. You've taken that several steps.
• 1:13:07
  You are an author, a speaker. Like I'm shocked you'd I I
• 1:13:12
  really couldn't remember what you majored in in high in
• 1:13:14
  college. I really thought you you were a
• 1:13:15
  history major like you know. So tell us a little bit about
• 1:13:18
  this historical side, this passion you have for history,
• 1:13:22
  specifically the history of your you talked about this being
• 1:13:24
  home, the history of your area right there.
• 1:13:30
  Yeah, I've always had an interest in in history,
• 1:13:32
  particularly local history, just something that I always had an
• 1:13:36
  interest in. And the interest has grown over
• 1:13:38
  the years. Now having said that, 25 years
• 1:13:42
  ago you and I could not have had any kind of conversation that
• 1:13:49
  didn't revolve around weightlifting or speed training
• 1:13:53
  or technique or you know, training philosophies or
• 1:13:56
  anything like that. I was very unbalanced and it
• 1:13:59
  wasn't it wasn't good. You know, you need to have
• 1:14:01
  balance in your life and you know, I I found that, you know,
• 1:14:06
  what we do is all consuming. But I I think it's healthy to
• 1:14:09
  have some balance and I think that's why I've never really
• 1:14:13
  burnt out is I have other things they keep me balanced and and
• 1:14:18
  history has become one of those things and I and I've I've done
• 1:14:21
  a lot kind of started off as a history buff and I feel like I'm
• 1:14:26
  developing into more of a of a a story.
• 1:14:30
  I'm not quite there yet but I'm working on it.
• 1:14:32
  Like I said I'm doing my graduate degree in history right
• 1:14:36
  now. I'm working on a thesis and you
• 1:14:39
  know, I'm learning a lot. But yeah, I've I've written
• 1:14:44
  articles for the Alabama Review. I've done book reviews for the
• 1:14:47
  academic journals. You know, I've I've given tours,
• 1:14:54
  local tours. When even somebody comes into
• 1:14:56
  town, they might have had an ancestor that was in an Illinois
• 1:14:59
  regiment that fought in Spanish for.
• 1:15:02
  They'll contact hey would you show me and I'll take them
• 1:15:05
  through the neighborhood where that battlefield was and show
• 1:15:08
  them well this is where this happened and this is where that
• 1:15:10
  happened. So yeah, I just have a real
• 1:15:13
  interest in it. It's just fascinating
• 1:15:16
  investigating and digging and it reminds me a lot of when I first
• 1:15:20
  started coaching the the the you know reading articles written by
• 1:15:26
  successful coaches and that sort of thing.
• 1:15:28
  So I yeah, I've just this is something I did started off as a
• 1:15:32
  a hobby and I I enjoy doing that.
• 1:15:34
  I got. I got I've written a book, The
• 1:15:37
  Last Siege, about the campaign for mobile in 1865 and I've got
• 1:15:41
  another book coming out in probably late summer early fall
• 1:15:47
  about the the the the Battle of Spanish Fort, where I live,
• 1:15:51
  which is a suburb of Mobile so. Yeah, I I love it because in the
• 1:15:57
  Track World, when you are describing, you know, watching
• 1:16:00
  VHS tapes every night and reading articles, no one bets.
• 1:16:04
  Not in our circle, right. We all go, yeah, of course.
• 1:16:06
  It's what we do. People outside of our circle,
• 1:16:09
  outside of coaching and and coaching check and field would
• 1:16:11
  be like, wow, what a nerd. Like, really?
• 1:16:13
  You would like I would watch the Survivor and you instead would
• 1:16:16
  watch VHS tapes of some guy Bell, right.
• 1:16:20
  It's kind of the same thing. Some people are listening right
• 1:16:23
  now and hearing about reading articles and writing, writing
• 1:16:26
  book. Come on, writing a book.
• 1:16:28
  It's hard writing a book about this and go, wow, what a nerd.
• 1:16:31
  This is your passion and it's grown.
• 1:16:33
  It's kindled and can tell you to enjoy it.
• 1:16:37
  Some people like watching television.
• 1:16:40
  I don't watch a whole lot of television.
• 1:16:41
  In fact, I I think I'm going to have to get rid of my TV.
• 1:16:45
  I couldn't turn it on. I I bought it in 2000 and and
• 1:16:49
  three and and whenever I watch watch it, I have to unplug it
• 1:16:53
  from the wall to turn it off. Now it just doesn't turn on.
• 1:16:59
  So I'm. I'm going to have to go ahead
• 1:17:01
  and give another one. I just don't watch a lot of
• 1:17:04
  television. I don't have time for it.
• 1:17:07
  If I'm not recruiting or writing training programs or whatever,
• 1:17:10
  I'm. I'm reading history and like I
• 1:17:14
  said, I'm in grad school. I'm doing a I'm doing a thesis
• 1:17:17
  on a Hungarian exile from the 1848 Hungarian Revolution that
• 1:17:21
  came to America and fought for the Union, even though he was a
• 1:17:25
  separatist himself in Europe. But he's fighting against the
• 1:17:29
  separatists of the South also. I'm looking at why did he do
• 1:17:32
  that? Why would he you know and and so
• 1:17:34
  I'm doing a lot of digging and rereading and and and like I
• 1:17:39
  said I've I've put together this thesis and you know the the
• 1:17:43
  history professors at in our department don't quite know what
• 1:17:46
  to make of me. But I think as they get to know
• 1:17:48
  me you know they're they're they're coming around to kind of
• 1:17:55
  figuring out what I'm about. But at first, they're like,
• 1:17:57
  what? What?
• 1:17:58
  What's going on here? What?
• 1:17:59
  Who is this guy? You know, You pull.
• 1:18:00
  My leg. No, I just.
• 1:18:02
  No, I just, I I love challenges. I love challenges.
• 1:18:06
  I I, I love investigating and researching, whether it's track
• 1:18:10
  and field training methodologies or training methods.
• 1:18:14
  I love, you know, seeing why people do what they do and the
• 1:18:18
  methods involved. But there's a lot of that in
• 1:18:20
  history. You know what I need to do?
• 1:18:21
  I need to probably write a book about track and field histories
• 1:18:24
  in the United States or NCAA or or something like that.
• 1:18:28
  That's a book I would read absolutely.
• 1:18:31
  Sorry I can't I can't get into the history of Spanish for it
• 1:18:34
  and battle would be I I can't do I'm I'm the anti historian I
• 1:18:37
  just like I can't do OK Paul leave us with this You said
• 1:18:43
  something really interesting to me I wrote it down you said I
• 1:18:48
  was very unbalanced and I see this as an issue with our
• 1:18:53
  coaches to you know I'm a huge coaching advocate so I'm always
• 1:18:57
  looking for ways that how do we improve the people who choose to
• 1:18:59
  be track coaches. How do we that it that it's not
• 1:19:02
  all about the XS and OS and and track and field that you have to
• 1:19:05
  be I don't want to say well-rounded but boy you got to
• 1:19:08
  be rounded you can't be square You said I was very unbalanced.
• 1:19:13
  How did you come to that realization like what was the
• 1:19:18
  self-awareness that hit and now we know what you did once you
• 1:19:21
  realize I was like OK I'm going to start I like history.
• 1:19:23
  Someone will start looking at was it was there an acute event
• 1:19:26
  or was it just a a chronic over time how did you come to that
• 1:19:31
  self-awareness. Because we need this in our
• 1:19:32
  profession. Yeah, well, again, you know,
• 1:19:37
  three of my mentors told me this, Jim Tate told me this Pat
• 1:19:42
  Galley. Pat Galley was critical for me
• 1:19:45
  having a little bit of fun and not being so serious all the
• 1:19:49
  time about track and field. I mean he he really helped me in
• 1:19:53
  that regard. But Jim Tate would would was
• 1:19:55
  concerned about me because I was just you know just 24/7 track
• 1:20:01
  and field and coaching and you know and he was concerned that I
• 1:20:05
  was going to burn out or or whatever.
• 1:20:08
  And Angelo Harris used to make fun of me about all that.
• 1:20:12
  You know, just. Took it a little too seriously
• 1:20:15
  and and I've seen coaches have come in and and we're like
• 1:20:19
  really gung ho initially and then they they burn out And so I
• 1:20:25
  was always aware that I was unbalanced but I just it just
• 1:20:29
  kind of happened organically. You know what I I I've always
• 1:20:33
  been interested in history but I would you know just curious what
• 1:20:38
  happened how did why you know how did we get to this point and
• 1:20:43
  you know whether it again local history was the thing that
• 1:20:47
  really fascinated me. So you know there's a lot of
• 1:20:52
  stuff that happened right here in the mobile Bay Area Gulf
• 1:20:55
  Coast and it's just fascinating to me.
• 1:20:58
  I don't know why it just is. I hate that this conversation
• 1:21:03
  had to come at the end because this may be the most important
• 1:21:06
  part of this podcast. You you talked about you.
• 1:21:09
  You kind of always had the self-awareness I think a lot of
• 1:21:11
  coaches have that are unbalanced.
• 1:21:15
  Understand it. But we just can't.
• 1:21:17
  You, you know hate to hate to use the analogy of like an
• 1:21:20
  addiction. Like a lot.
• 1:21:21
  I think of people who are addicted to whatever realize
• 1:21:24
  they're addicted but can't or won't take the next step to to
• 1:21:28
  get healing. And so for you, it took some
• 1:21:33
  mentors to kind of push you over that edge a little bit.
• 1:21:36
  I'll be like, hey man, so you're seeing this as well.
• 1:21:38
  Guess what? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:39
  And just to have fun. Yeah, That's yeah, that's
• 1:21:44
  extremely I. Think I think balance.
• 1:21:45
  You know, whether it's, you know if whether it's your faith
• 1:21:51
  family. Yeah.
• 1:21:55
  So I think all that's. Important Do you think you're a
• 1:21:57
  better track coach now that you have more balance than before,
• 1:22:03
  when you were just a 1000% into the coaching?
• 1:22:09
  I think so, I think so. And I know how to handle.
• 1:22:12
  I don't get so stressed out about certain things as much as
• 1:22:14
  I did before, you know, because I and A lot of that's
• 1:22:18
  experience. I there's not a whole lot I
• 1:22:20
  haven't seen at this point and and I know how to handle
• 1:22:24
  different situations. So I'm more comfortable in my
• 1:22:29
  role now and I think you know that balance is important.
• 1:22:34
  You know again, whether it's faith, family or in my case, you
• 1:22:38
  know, history, all of the, all of that faith, family and
• 1:22:43
  history. So that kind of keeps me even
• 1:22:47
  keel and balanced and I think that's important for for a coach
• 1:22:50
  to find some some other things besides what they're doing.
• 1:22:55
  I think it's critical. It's more than important.
• 1:22:57
  You know when when when I see a new person getting into coaching
• 1:23:02
  that it's kind of like a it's you mentioned faith, you know at
• 1:23:05
  our church this past weekend we had baptisms and we it's a big
• 1:23:08
  party at our church because it's like, oh, someone new to the
• 1:23:11
  family, etcetera. It's the same feeling I get when
• 1:23:14
  I hear someone becoming a coach. It's like, oh man, more track
• 1:23:17
  coaches, like that's you know, these are the greatest people in
• 1:23:19
  the world. So more is better.
• 1:23:21
  And I see them in their first year one, year five, year 10 and
• 1:23:24
  it's like hey, but I really want to see you in year 25 and year
• 1:23:27
  30 and year 35 because that means the amplification of the
• 1:23:31
  number of positive impacts you made on young people was a
• 1:23:33
  tremendous not just one year, five year etcetera.
• 1:23:36
  So I think you know if you're listening right now and and any
• 1:23:40
  of that resonates with you. If it doesn't resonate with you,
• 1:23:42
  I'd kind of recommend you rewind and just listen to it again,
• 1:23:46
  really soak on it. Go I think great example here go
• 1:23:50
  to your mentors that that that is key, that's key in life,
• 1:23:54
  that's definitely key in our profession.
• 1:23:55
  Go to your mentors. You know, they call them blind
• 1:23:58
  spots for a reason. They're some things are blind to
• 1:24:00
  you, but others that you really trust and love and have
• 1:24:04
  friendship and family and fellowship with.
• 1:24:06
  They see these things and sometimes they don't want to
• 1:24:09
  hurt your feelings. They're just not going to say
• 1:24:10
  it. Sometimes you need to ask them
• 1:24:11
  like, hey, so where where do I fall short?
• 1:24:13
  What would you know, carte blanche.
• 1:24:15
  We're still going to be best friends after this.
• 1:24:17
  Where am I falling short? And that is going to help you
• 1:24:19
  become a better coach, a better friend, a better father, a
• 1:24:22
  better family member, a better everything.
• 1:24:25
  So that that ball, I appreciate your just kind of openness and
• 1:24:27
  honesty about that. That's that's extremely valuable
• 1:24:29
  for for our listeners to hear. All right.
• 1:24:34
  We we are out of time. Thank you, brother.
• 1:24:36
  We are out of time. Paul, you know I love you to
• 1:24:38
  death, brother. Yeah.
• 1:24:39
  I've known you for a long time. I'm so glad I didn't hire you at
• 1:24:43
  Neosho because your path. Me too.
• 1:24:48
  Your path is it's tremendous. I've seen what you've done at
• 1:24:53
  South Alabama and I hate it as a Troy alum, but I love it.
• 1:24:57
  You know, I've seen the kids that you have in your team.
• 1:24:58
  I've seen the staff that you surround yourself with.
• 1:25:02
  You're doing a tremendous job and I think it's really
• 1:25:06
  important for people to see these type of roles.
• 1:25:09
  I unique here. I don't think we've had a single
• 1:25:11
  person go high school, college, high school, college, by the
• 1:25:14
  way, and. I've loved every place I've
• 1:25:18
  been, Every place I've been. I've been really, really
• 1:25:21
  blessed. I've had friends that had
• 1:25:23
  careers and other fields, made good money or miserable,
• 1:25:28
  miserable. And I can.
• 1:25:29
  I can honestly say, man, I'm itching to get to work.
• 1:25:32
  I'm I'm here before 7:00 and stay as late as I need to.
• 1:25:38
  But yeah, I'm very blessed to have been able to do something
• 1:25:41
  that I really enjoy. I love it, every place I've
• 1:25:44
  been. It's evident.
• 1:25:45
  It's evident. Well, go scratch that itch.
• 1:25:46
  Get back to coaching. Thank you so much, man.
• 1:25:48
  I realize, you know, asking for any amount of time, especially
• 1:25:51
  in season, is extremely hard. And I'm always humbled when, you
• 1:25:55
  know, coaches can give us that time here.
• 1:25:57
  And so I'm just so grateful for your time and your openness and
• 1:25:59
  authenticity today. Paul, thank you so much.
• 1:26:03
  Thanks, Mike. Take care, man.
• 1:26:05
  I appreciate you. Appreciate you guys being here.
• 1:26:07
  Join us next week. We'll do it all over again.
• 1:26:09
  Maybe we'll find a college, high school, I don't know.
• 1:26:12
  We'll find some other combinations.
• 1:26:14
  But you keep coming back. We'll keep bringing you the
• 1:26:15
  value. Appreciate everybody.
• 1:26:16
  Have a great week. If it goes to appreciate the
• 1:26:23
  coach, the ones that point people most every season needs a
• 1:26:26
  voice of reason speaking the growth you got to prep for.
• 1:26:29
  You carry the load, ice, coffee to the soul.
• 1:26:31
  For those of us stay on the go, proper handoff to stay in the
• 1:26:34
  zone. What you packing for the road.
• 1:26:36
  There's more than one way to go. Take notes.
• 1:26:38
  That's paying. You told it ain't practice.
• 1:26:40
  If your purpose ain't clear, it can't happen to you.
• 1:26:43
  Listen with both. Is can't mentor without a
• 1:26:45
  mentor. Years of experience you can
• 1:26:47
  reinvent those years. Every plan's got a standard you
• 1:26:50
  live up to. And the price sacrifice can you
• 1:26:53
  give up you. It's choice and the fight.
• 1:26:55
  Not a win or lose. It's not a ploy boy device.
• 1:26:57
  Y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to it's all
• 1:27:00
  about why you don't know till you know who you are inside 6.
• 1:27:04
  When you waste time choose none. So y'all course finish line.
• 1:27:07
  The work ain't done. So we learn from the experts and
• 1:27:15
  ye.