Latest / Queer Voices / November 19th - Joelle Espeut of Stonewall Democrats, Kathy Ng of Catastrophic Theatre, and Ian Haddock of The Normal Anomaly

Transcript

November 19th - Joelle Espeut of Stonewall Democrats, Kathy Ng of Catastrophic Theatre, and Ian Haddock of The Normal Anomaly · Queer Voices

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is KPFT 90.1 FM Houston, 89.5 FM Galveston, 91.9 FM Huntsville, and worldwide on the internet at KPFT.org.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_08: You are listening to Queer Voices, a show on KPFT and a podcast for the LGBTQIA plus community that has been around for about five decades.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_08: Up first this week, we have an interview from Jacob Newsome with Joel S.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_08: Pew, who has founded the Stonewall Democrats.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_08: And then we have a segment where I, Brett Cullum, get to interview Kathy Ng, who has written the play Beautiful Princess Disorder, which opens its run at the Match Theater this Friday.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_08: And finally, Deborah Moncrief Bell gets to talk to Ian Haddock.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_08: He is founder and creator of the Normal Anomaly, and he will be talking about that organization.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_08: Queer Voices starts now.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: Hello, everyone.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: My name is Jacob Newsom with Power of the Narrative in partnership with KPFT Queer Voices, and we have a special guest.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: We have Joelle with the Stonewall Democrats.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: And Joelle, I know you can do your introduction the best, so I'm gonna let you take it from here.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: Hello, everyone.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_05: My name is Joelle S U.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_05: My pronouns are she, her, hers.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: I am many things, but I think in this conversation, it'll be primarily focusing on me being the founding chair of the Greater Houston Stonewall Democrats.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_05: And yeah, I am happy to be here with you today.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: So tell me why you decided to create Stonewall Democrats and why now?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's interesting.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_05: It actually happened kind of by happenstance and circumstance.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_05: Um at the beginning of the year, I ran for um the Houston LGBT political caucus president.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_05: First time, if it was the first time that there was a runoff for the presidency for the caucus.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_05: And I did not win.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, through, you know, through my advocacy work in community, I actually met the ex Stonewall president of the statewide chapter.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_05: I ran to him in Eagle Path months before.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_05: And so after I lost the presidency for the caucus, I ran into him again at the state capitol.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_05: There was an all-in for equality day um with equality Texas, and I was actually speaking at the rally.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_05: And so I ran into him and he was like, Well, you know, Joelle, what's new?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_05: What's going on?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_05: And I was like, Well, I lost.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: I lost the friend, I lost the run out of the president.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: And he was like, Well, why don't you start Stonewall in Houston?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_05: Houston is the only major city in Texas that doesn't have a Stonewall chapter.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_05: And at first I was like, I don't know if I want to start something.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_05: I was just, I was very on the fence about it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_05: But, you know, I think thinking about my advocacy and my political stances on things, I was just like, you know, I was unsure if that was the radical direction that they would go to seek.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_05: And he was like, no, this is perfect and this is timely and full transparency, you are who we need to lead in a dynamic city like Houston.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it sounds like, you know, it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, what you learned through losing the presidency is that that you learn to make your own power.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: And it sounds like you'd identified a need for some kind of radical truth-telling platform for people to go to, and that's where Stonewall Democrats was born.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_04: Am I hearing that correctly?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think, you know, I always at my core, I want to do impactful mission-driven work.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I thought that that was gonna be through leading the caucus, and that didn't pan out exactly.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_05: I'm still a member of the caucus, but it didn't pan out that way.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_05: And so this year is such an important pivotal year in our community.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: The stakes are extremely high.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_05: And with the work that I do, I want to continue to do impactful work at a high level and provide resources, tools, and education for our community that helps them make the most informed decision.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_05: That is at the core what I wanted to do.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_05: And that really forged its pathway towards Stonewall.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: That's beautiful.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_04: And what is the work that Stonewall Democrats have done so far, just so the public knows that y'all have been here, been doing the work even before you created Stonewall?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: But I want to hear about the work y'all are doing now and how people can get involved.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so we formed in we formed in June, and I think it was imperative to kick off and be founded in June, because June is not only Pride Month, but June celebrates the life and the legacy of Stonewall's kind of founding mothers and transestors, Marsha P.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_05: Johnson, who really the LGBT movement has been built on not just the backs of them, but the backs of other black and brown, trans and gender expansive people.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so for me, I thought that it was important to kick off during June.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_05: And at our kickoff, we had over 80 people there.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_05: It was a mix, it was a mix racially orientation, gender expression.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_05: We had electeds there, we had candidates, we had Congressman Al Green speak, we had Kendall Scudder, the president of the Texas Democratic Party, speak.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and it just showed just the excitement.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_05: I think that when you center community in any conversation um and center community in advocacy, you get energy, you get a feeling of hope and joy that is unbridled.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's what we saw in June.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_05: So since June, we've been doing a couple of different things.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_05: So we've been having virtual happy hours because Stonewall is really about centering community.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_05: And when you center community, you have to center accessibility and making sure the information is accessible.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_05: And so we've been having monthly virtual happy hours where we talk to elected officials and candidates about their platform, about their campaign.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_05: So we've already um had conversations with Christian Menifee, with Lauren Ashley Simmons, with um Alejandra Salinas.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_05: This month we'll be talking to Vicky Goodwin, candidate for lieutenant governor.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_05: So we are really trying to bring those candidates and those electeds to people and make them more accessible.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_05: That is really the key.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_05: We've also kicked off an IG series because social media, of course, we can't run away from it, age and meet community where they are.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_05: So we kicked off an IG series called Black Girls Who Politics.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um that's a passion project of mine for years, but it's really been about talking to black women in politics, whether it is the advocacy side or they're an elected official, and just talking about the current political climate, how we move forward, how they're feeling.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_05: And then we're working on some really exciting initiatives for the top of the year.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_05: And then just engage in community, networking, really like I really want to center organic um connections with community that are bi-directional, where everyone and all of us can benefit.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: Because this isn't just about who we want to be elected.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, that's true.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_05: But this is really about starting and fostering a movement amongst community.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me more about that movement piece.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_04: I really want to hear about your movement.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, I during my day job, I'm the advocacy director for the Normal Anomaly Initiative.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_05: So we're an organization, a community-based organization that centers um eliminating barriers while also uplifting narrative change within uh marginalized communities.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_05: And it's important to understand that in centering community, it's understanding that community does have the answer.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_05: Community knows the answer.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_05: What typically happens is community lacks resources, community lacks the knowledge and the tools to be able to exact that change.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_05: There's there are also systemic systems and at play that oftentimes keep communities down.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_05: So it I am very clear that like community has the answer, has always had the answer.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_05: And so when I think about the grassroots work of Stonewall, it's really about mobilizing community.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_05: One of our upcoming initiatives that I'm most excited about is our faith-based allyship initiative, where we will be really engaging with churches and faith-based institutions around civic engagement and allyship and like building that connection, not because it's an election year, but building that connection because we all need each other is going to step up against, you know, this current political climate and move forward.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_05: And then movement building is also, you know, through our Black Girls Who Politic initiative, it shows that you know, black women across the spectrum of womanhood, you know, we all are similar.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: Whether you are trans, cisgender, heterosexual, here is among that.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_05: That's a microcosm of our larger community, is if we focus on where we are similar, if we focus on, you know, building community, if we focus on hope, if we focus on joy, that is where liberation, that is where equity lies.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_05: And so the work of Stonewall, while it centers like that organizing, that movement building, that education advocacy, it also centers hope and joy because that is me, my core is hope and joy.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think you know, having cultivating joy, especially in this environment, is resistance.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_05: It is, it absolutely is joy.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_05: They are people, yes, they are trying to strip our rights and take away our rights.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_05: But I mean, if you were like, I'm a black trans woman in Texas, that baby, they have been after us for years.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, what they are doing is different than what they have been doing five, six, seven years ago.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_05: And so when I think about it from that lens, it's like you know, I am living my life while fighting and also understanding that every day I'm getting up and I'm still going to enjoy life, I'm still going to experience joy and happiness because they can't take that and they won't take that.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, they can try to take my rights, but they can't take my identity, and they can't take the identity of our community.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that that's important and to understand that regardless of what's happening, we still deserve joy and there is still hope for a better tomorrow.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_04: I like I like that a lot.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, what do you want to say for the people who have yet to find you who may just come across episode one day and just like they just feel so unseen, especially in this environment?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_05: I would tell them that oftentimes you are in search of community, and sometimes you could be searching for tears.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_05: Um you find them through a podcast episode or radio episode, or you find them through an Instagram post, through a random event, and then you realize like this is what I've been missing, and this feels like home, and this feels like family, and this feels like community.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_05: That is what I hope that people get when they engage with greater Houston Stonewall Democrats.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_05: Um like community, it feels like family because that's what the movement work should feel like.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_05: I think that we are at a time where, you know, yeah, things are things are seeming grim and dim.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_05: They are.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: It's a rough political time, it's a rough economic time, it's a rough time just socially.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_05: But I think we've been here before, and we have the tools to really hunker and really build the movement and and really ground ourselves in our community for that long fight because it is going to be a long fight, but the pendulum will swing back.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that when people engage or when they if they randomly come across this episode or they engage with Stonewall or here, I hope that they get that feeling of community.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_05: I hope they get that feeling of this feels like something bigger than me that I want to be a part of.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_05: You know, Stonewall is new, we're we're growing, but we want to grow with community.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_05: We are not trying to tell community what to do.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_05: We want to build this movement with community.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_05: Sounds like a fluid movement.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like, it is, it is, it absolutely is.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: Joel, you've been an amazing guest.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_04: Is there any is there anything you want the audience to take away from from today's talk?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, the the easiest thing to do at this time is to think that you don't have any power.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_05: And you absolutely have power.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_05: You actually have more power than you think.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_05: And advocacy and engagement can look different for many people.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_05: It doesn't have to be marching in the street, it doesn't have to be storming the the Capitol.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: Well, not storming the Capitol, like protesting or rallying.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_05: It doesn't have to look like that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_05: It could be door knocking, it could be organizing, it could simply be casting your vote in the upcoming election.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_05: But you do have a responsibility when we think about liberation and we think about, you know, the forward movement of us as a community and as a society, you do have a responsibility and you do have power.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_05: And it's up to you to decide what it looks like when you exercise that power.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_05: But I I strongly implore people to really look inward to realize their personal power and own it and see how they want to use that power because that's the only way that we're going to be able to move forward.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's beautifully put, Joel.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for coming on to the show.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I look forward to the conversation.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: Bye bye, Joelle.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_08: Hi, this is Brett Cullum.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_08: And today I am joined by Kathy Ng.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_08: She is a playwright, director, teacher, and get this crafter from Hong Kong.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_08: She writes plays that attempt to create these stretchy human-adjacent spaces that are also construction sites for new alien languages.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_08: And so we are going to talk to her about that and figure out exactly what that means.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_08: But recent works include Kingdom, Skyrats, and of course, Beautiful Princess Disorder, which is coming to the match November 21st through December 13th.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_08: It is catastrophic theater at its finest doing a this is a world premiere, Kathy, right?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, no one's ever seen this.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_06: No.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_08: Well, I don't even know, like Beautiful Princess Disorder.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_08: I love the name, but what is the show about?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the show is set in what um we're calling the parking lot of heaven, or at least that's what the triangle person who's a main character in the play calls it.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And triangle person is like a humanoid, but not fully human, and they're also like a thought baby.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So like in the script, they're meant to be wearing like a like a very like geometric triangle-shaped head, but who have a human body and they wear a no nonsense navy blue swimsuit.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're kind of they're one of the inhabitants of the parking lot of heaven, kind of like waiting.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's like an intercom where like the angels are like kind of like, oh, like you will be processed soon, sort of like sort of like playing with like the gates of heaven type of thing.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the other, presumably there are more inhabit inhabitants waiting at the parking lot of heaven, but um the other characters are Mother Teresa and Telecombe, the in the infamous murderous Sea World Orca killed three of his trainers during the murderous orca.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Three people, but two were trainers and one wasn't, but yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_08: No, this sounds like a very straightforward thing.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_08: Where do you I mean, obviously, this is not your first play that you've written.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_08: You've had works published before.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_08: What got you into writing plays?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was because I really wanted to do more theater and kind of realized that if I wrote plays that people wanted to do, then I could be a part of making it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And also I love language, I think.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Language is one of my favorite mediums, even though I I like to work in a lot of different modes.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there's sort of that kind of excitement of the play as like a like a blueprint to kind of like almost I see it like there's lines and there's stage directions, but it's a series of prompts for artists you hope to collaborate with in the future, like directors, actors, designers.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love the excitement of almost preparing like a unit or a package to give to like exciting artists and see what comes out of it, which is always almost can't I can't like even though I am the one writing, I it's never how you imagine it in your head.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_08: Never.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_08: And the catastrophic theater, anything can happen.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_08: And I mean anything can happen.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_08: They they have no boundaries whatsoever.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_08: How the heck did you get hooked up with them?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so I feel so lucky because Lisa Damore, who is um who they just catastrophic just produced Frozen Section, which is a new player of hers.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: She's been my playwriting teacher and kind of mentor for I would say almost a decade now.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've known each other.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we recently reconnected a couple of years ago because she was helping lead the Brown playwriting MFA program while Julia Jargo, the head, was on a sabbatical.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So on my first semester, I was taught by Stacey Karen Robinson, who's this amazing solo artist and playwright whose workshop and the theme around solo was what generated Beautiful Princess Disorder.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: But and I was also writing it while Lisa was there and she got to know we got to reconnect.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think she uh was talking to Jason about some of my plays while they were working together.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So and then Jason Nadler read some of the plays, and that's how we got connected and started chatting.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_08: Lisa's amazing.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, catastrophic has a long-standing relationship with her and obviously just did her world premiere frozen section.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_08: So it's wild because Lisa's got a super huge national reputation, but you do too.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, I when I was digging stuff up about you, the New York Times talks about you.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was a production of a play called Happy Life in 2022, produced by The Hearth, which was like a really great great, crazy adventure.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, but you know, I it feels weird in terms of like I also because I just came out of school.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel so lucky to kind of be enmeshed in getting to know better sort of the network of American experimental theater makers currently still like making stuff, trying to connect people, mentoring younger artists, like is a definite network of people like that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Lisa is an integral part of that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like a a beneficiary of both her kindness and also the insistence on like making sure that younger people have can become experimental American theater makers, and and it's something I feel really grateful for.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_08: You're originally from Hong Kong, correct?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_08: But where do you live now?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Providence, Rhode Island.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_08: Oh, okay.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_08: How did you end up in Providence, Rhode Island?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I c um I grew up in Hong Kong.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I went through the international school system and went through and which was when we had like a American-based education, and a lot of what my life revolved around was kind of getting to American college, which is and then so I ended up at Brown for my undergraduate degree, where I also I that that's where I first fell in love with theater and started doing it and ended up majoring in writing for performance.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I after that had a long journey trying to figure out ways to stay in the country to keep making art, which took me to my first graduate degree in uh musical theater writing at Tisch.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I worked for a couple years at um Club Thumb, which is a really awesome experimental, uh New Work focused theater in New York City.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, but then COVID hit and me and my partner, who we just got married uh after the first Trump administration, who I met in college, and I was like, we just can't afford this city.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're like really burnt out, maybe we just need to like get out of the city and start somewhere that's both new, but we both kind of knew because we met so we moved back to Providence and to try and just figure out life there.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that was when I applied to do the playwriting graduate d program at Brown, which I ended up doing and just graduated this past spring.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how I've ended up in Providence.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_08: Just the long road.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: The long road, yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_08: Yes, the long and winding road.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_08: Now, when I read the New York Times, they said that you have a queer sensibility, and I noticed that you use she they pronouns.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_08: So how do you identify as queer?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_08: I wanted to just ask you about that too.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that like I identify as queer in the sense of I'm constantly trying to figure out and even though like there is there's so much benefit and help with categories and labels, I'm trying to figure out, especially in the space of my plays, how to like exist outside of those categories that of normal everyday life, to see like what else like we can we can be.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of my plays have are often hybrid creatures.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, for Happy Life, one of the characters is a cat mermaid, which she's like corpse that kind of loaded out of a Hello Kitty doll, which is based off of real life murder, but that off doll component clings to her in that world, and she's neither she's she's neither fully ghost or human.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: She's and like and her and she kind of bonds with the other ghosts like Hermit, which is like kind of like w was like deeply insp inspired by sort of like my own journey with like body dysmorphia and like and especially like having like um female parts that I really felt like was were like traumatizing as a child and I wanted to change my body and hermit as like a ghost who is a trans mask ghost who first thing he does in the afterlife is slice off his boobs and then sort of like that because kind of where the play begins.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I there's queerness in the hybridness of my characters or like the non-humanness, but also trying to find the human impulses within, maybe inside of that, and also find a lot of queer during creativity and language because I really like language is both the prison but both like a liberating pool.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I find it possible or like interesting in a play when by the end of it, you've all almost like created a new language together with both the creative team and also every audience that comes sees it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_08: So this is a level of queerness that is like next because not only are you talking about kind of the human binary, but these are creatures, these are hybrids, these are people that are incorporating other things.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_08: And I know that Catastrophic is gonna have a fundraiser later where they wanted a disco Cab mermaid zombie theme or something.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_08: So that's they're they're obviously paying homage to you and happy life.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't I hope I well mermaids in general is such a seductive creature.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's that's a oh so I don't know if it's a direct for happy life, but yeah, like I feel like one reason why Meat and Catastrophic have feel an exciting collaboration is because they also have they also have that kind of desire and hunger to kind of explore what kind of reach for like what else we could be as like creatures on this planet rather than our concept of human, which of course deeply incorporates LGBTQ, all the orientations and all the different gender identifications that are possible for the human mind.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, we're emphasizing the other for sure.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_08: So beautiful princess disorder, November 21st through December 13th at the match.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_08: Going back to that, obviously you've got a great cast.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_08: Triangle person.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Who's the actor playing that?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: The actor playing Triangle Person is T Lavot Febled, I think.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's what their last name is pronounced.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm embarrassed to not know for sure, but their name's T, they're this amazing non-binary like poet, like graphic designer, actor.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're just incredibly, incredibly cool.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I have Kyle Sturdivant as telecom and Amy Bruce's mother, Teresa, and the the cast is just on fire.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: They are so excited to see I'm it's already been amazing seeing them in rehearsals and stuff, but T actually has been named the gayest and greatest non-binary poet.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, they have all these accolades, they are the icon.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_08: Uh if you want to get a crowd, just put T at the front of your show for sure.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_08: They are just a powerhouse on stage.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_08: I am just so excited that they are taking on Triangle Person because when I saw the the lead was Triangle Person, I was like, who the heck can play Triangle Person?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_08: But T like makes so much sense.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_08: They're born for that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're really, they really are, and they're like taking the character in ways that like they they're getting to because uh I've been able to be in ca in Houston twice now since the process has started and meeting the actors and talking with Jason, chatting with all the designers.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really set out to try and make the show that these group of people are meant to make together.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been rewriting during the rehearsal process, and a lot of the big new changes are directly inspired by just getting to know the people are catastrophic and inspired by who they are.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_08: They are super inspiring.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_08: You've got a great group.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_08: So your your play is in wonderful hands.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_08: And Jason Kodler, I mean, he's worked with Lisa extensively.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_08: I think if anybody understands experimental theater or anything like that, he's definitely so like I've I've learned so much from him already.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_08: No, so have I over the years for sure.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's been doing this for decades and just like relentless about it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And like you can really feel that when you talk to him and you work with him.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And also he was a teacher of no, not he he was a student of Maria Irene Fornez, who one of the greatest American playwrights of all time.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of nuts.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, so you've got all these superstars at the Catastrophic Theater.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_08: You've got Jason Nadler directing, you've got the match, which is a great space to be in.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_08: I am really excited about Beautiful Princess Disorder.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_08: Although like I keep tripping over the title.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_08: It's gonna be great.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_08: And of course, the adventures of Triangle Person and the parking lot of heaven.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's where it's end.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_08: So do you identify with Triangle Person or who in the play kind of represents you, your voice?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that it's kind of I would say that almost in every play, my whole self is like fractured into every part of it and like stagiurations and and stuff.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that like maybe Triangle Person is like probably the heart character of the play for me, or I also like to call it fuzzy edge um sibling drama for an only child because I'm an only child and triangle person are you two?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've always like and that sibling relation is for me both so familiar because so many people have siblings and it can it's so intense and storied and and I'm just like wow never I'll just never know what that is because I'm I ha would never have a sibling and like and triangle person was like just a character I doodled a lot as a kid that has like come has followed me throughout life growing up and so like they're kind of in my head are like my imaginary sibling in a sense so like that's that's kind of like they're kind of the anchor of the show I think yeah well I can't wait again match the theater complex November 20th through December 13th and are you gonna be here for the opening night?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be here so I'll be at opening night so maybe we can we'll meet in person Yeah no we totally will I I hang out there we'll we'll have a a glass of champagne and everything to celebrate the opening up this wonderful play and thank you so much we are so excited to see you and and see your work yeah I'm really excited to share this play with Houston and have this kind of be like my first foray into the city I feel really lucky yeah we'll be so lucky to have you thank you thanks so much Brian Ian Haddock is the founder and executive director of the Normal Anomaly an organization that started just a few years ago but has just grown by leaps and bounds and been very successful.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Ian first of all tell me exactly what the normal anomaly is absolutely so the normal anomaly is an organization that is focused on the barrier reduction through narrative change.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so we offer generally flexible options for community to engage andor be assisted and we focus on doing that from a lens of changing the lives of the people we engage with and then thereafter changing the perspective or the narrative that people see based upon a sense of marginalization.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the only organization I know of in Houston and maybe in the region that is focused on the black queer experience.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me first of all how did it all come about?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah originally I started off as a blogger writing is still my first love.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love the idea of telling stories uh but during COVID-19 what we realized is that telling stories was not enough.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: We were not changing the narrative and that required us to go through getting a nonprofit status.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: In 2021 uh we got our nonprofit status and uh we started thinking about how do we want to craft this organization.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: And there were no organizations that really focused on black LGBTQ people in the region.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so we said that is the work that we must do.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so what we try to do is we try to be we try to center black LGBT people while being inclusive of any marginalized identity.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so what that does is it creates solutions for people who are arguably at the most margins and if we can fix those situations because obviously they would have more barriers in this socio-political climate if we can find solutions for them for any marginalized identity.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent how did you very first start off after you were blocking you you talked to some people and said hey kids I got this idea where do we go from here?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so what what were the first steps you took?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Was it getting that 501c3?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, no actually you know our first engagement was with the Montrose Center.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: We were fiscal uh we were a part of the nonprofit incubator at the Montrose Center we like to say we were one of their favorite success stories and so it was really just an idea and through the nonprofit incubator working with Kennedy and working with Anne and we still work with Avery over there at the Montrose Center but I was working directly with them and we were creating bylaws and we were creating standard operating procedures and really doing some strategic mapping working with other philanthropic organizations connected to them and really the reality is I probably would not have been successful if the Montro Center wouldn't have said, hey, you've outgrown us you should get your own organization.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: You should start your own organization.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Really it was the Montrose Center was a conduit for us to begin and also a catalyst for our success because once we got our 501 status we hired two members of our team that is still with us to this day and that has just been able to you know we've been able to skyrocket since then so tell me something about the programs that you do offer.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes yes so one of the programs that we're offering we have several partners who on a regular basis usually biweekly donate items that could be cleaning supplies it could be drinks food sometimes it's even cash incentives and so we call that our no barrier services and so for those services people just have to sign up on a formice and our drop-in space and pick out whatever they want to for free we also offer our trans allyship collective and that is a collective of black trans women who are scholars in action for gender expansive services.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so that program is in partnership with the University of Houston Sustain Center and in that they are developing training to make community members elected officials and businesses better allies to marginalized folks censoring those furthest at the margins and so we have six black trans women that are part of that cohort along with one of our uh and also a connection at U of H.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we also offer an entrepreneurship class called Project Liberate um and that is generally a six to nine month cohort we plan to open that up in February uh and this this uh class uh has been worked with through Yale University Center for Interdisciplinary Research on AIDS as a way to meet the social drivers of health and reduce that and so this six month program has some amazing curriculum we've been able to launch uh 59 businesses through that program and our newest program that we are currently working on and trying to build awareness around is transitional housing.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: As you know, housing is healthcare housing should be a human right and what we're seeing is that the people that are at the margins the top three things based upon our capacity building assessment is transportation, housing and employment.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've already offered entrepreneurship we offer transportation six months out the year depending on funding and so now we're going to start doing transitional housing.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're building that program with some leaders in Atlanta to try to make it sustainable on its own.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're really excited to launch that in spring 2026.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: I know the Montrose Center and Tony's place are are two places where they try to help young people who may be in need of that transitional housing.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's all about connections isn't it you said Montrose Center helps launch your effort and then working in conjunction with other organizations and even the University of Houston is how you're able to meet your goals.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: And tell me about Talk to me Thursday.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah you know so another thing that we are trying to do is we are trying to do things throughout the week that really uses social media and our space to have conversations.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so each day whether it's on social media or in person we are doing engagements and initiatives and so Talk to me Thursday is one of those things that we're doing every other Thursday we have a team member that will be talking about something that you know is a normal anomaly something that a lot of people deal with but a lot of people don't talk about and then on Wednesdays we'll be doing yoga at our center for free led by Dr.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Maria Wilson and one Friday out the month we'll also be doing Zumba and then every other week we'll be doing financial classes on Tuesdays.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're really trying to just really meet the needs and reduce barriers.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: We listen to community we constantly doing are doing assessments with the people we serve and we see what they need and we try to you know find people that that can work it out.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: So Talk to me Thursday is really about uncovering hard conversations that a lot of people are having in silence.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Explain to me just for a moment what is meant by the term normal anomaly.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely I am a bit of a geek um and like I said words you know writing is my is my first love and so when I was trying to think about an organization that was you know queer that was of culture you know I'm a person of color an African American person I realized that it's so hard to constantly have to come out but you do still want those spaces where you can be fully yourself.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know I could have named us you know black LGBT something, but the reality is a lot of a lot of harm is connected to our blackness and our queerness.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so trying to come up with a name for an organization that centered you know queer people of color was difficult.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I came up with this idea of who I've always thought I was.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know people think I'm an anomaly because they're like hey you didn't finish college but you're writing research papers and hey you didn't you didn't finish this but you're doing that and I'm and I'm blessed to say that but I don't think that that's much of an anomaly.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know my experience good and bad created a situation where I have a chance and it was because of community it was because of people like you on Queer Voices which was my first platform that I ever got a chance to speak about normal anomaly it was because of you know people living with HIV was because of trans women it was because of lesbians it was because of a community that I have a chance to live the life that I live and do the work that I want to do.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe that everybody deserves that chance.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so what better name could you come up with than something that literally says different but normal different but accepted different but a community different but embraced and so that is exactly what normal anomaly means.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's this idea that we may be different but we're really more alike than we see.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: And to some degree we're all normal anomalies.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes yes and I think that's an important thing that you mentioned which is sometimes in life things don't necessarily go the way you think they would or that people say they should but when you find something that you have a passion for something where there's a need and you say hey I can help with that then that kind of launches you.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so much of what I've learned in my own life has been through volunteer efforts.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: I got in there I did the work and next thing I know I had been developing skills you know I learned how to be a volunteer coordinator.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: I even learned how to do journalism through being a volunteer.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: So uh that that is uh a a a wonderful thing and I really like that idea I'd like to see more people have that vision of uh as they have their life direction how they can plug into that kind of energy now you were named one of the gay 100 tell me what that means oh my gosh I am still in shock actually soon I'll be going to the award ceremony and I'm so excited but you know the Out 100 according to everybody that I know is you know one of if not the most prestigious LGBT national list.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: It honors the top 100 LGBT people in the nation I don't know how I made it but uh I am so grateful to be inducted into this year's class of Out 100.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know this work people often say this work is thankless.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't agree with that I think that this work is so hard that you can miss the thank yous.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I I have been embraced by community like this is this is this is representative of what happens when community believes in community.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is really for me being a part of Out 100 highlighting the fact that if you put your head down and you work with community and you love on community and you show up for community that people will see you.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have the biggest platform I don't have the most followers you know I don't have the the the best connections but you know I do my work in my corner I stay consistent and um I'm grateful that you know some something as big as Out 100 would would see me for.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: And the Out 100 is uh from uh Out magazine yeah and I know one of the people also this year is V from under the desk news and I particularly adore her when you go to the event please seek them out and give them a big old hug and love on her them for me because I I just think what they do is also phenomenal and what you do like I said you it's just been a few years what four years going on five and you just made such an impact on the Houston community one of the things that you offer is HIV testing and I think I saw a figure of over twelve hundred people that have been tested.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: So tell me is that where people show up at your location and say I want to get tested or what how do you facilitate HIV testing?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely we specialize in at-home testing we have at-home uh testing kits that are you know basically what you can get from Walgreens but we give them to you for free uh we also although they're at-home test uh testing kits we actively walk people through it if they need help so that somebody can be there with them but we also offer um and we'll be offering this some more in January we offer complete STI testing kits that can be mailed in uh that you can take home and get your results at home and they generally offer eight or nine uh different options for testing including HIV, prick, syphilis, donor, chlamydia, so on and so forth.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that is also offered for free.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: All you have to do is go to our website.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right now we have we have completed all of our our testing numbers for the year but we're working with we're currently working with the funder to give us more access so that we can offer these complimentary testing kits um and when they when they come out all you have to do is reach out to us on our website and either you can come in pick up the kit do it in our location or take it home and you can mail that off and they will send your result everything is prepaid and uh and and taken care of.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a wonderful option for there to be there for people who for whatever reason don't feel comfortable going somewhere else.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: So and it's really important knowing your status and knowing how to take care of yourself and the people you love is the name of the game, isn't it?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know I'm a person, I'm a prep advocate I've been on prep for I don't know over a decade.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm on yes to go which is a six month prep injection.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really, you know, I'm a huge advocate for knowing your status and also not just knowing your status so that you can get on medication or get on prep, but because holistic wellness is so important, you know, as queer folk, HIV is a big thing, but we also have like diabetes and we also have like high blood pressure and so on and so forth.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you get into the habit of getting tested and going to get checked up on and going to the doctor, you live a longer life this this world I believe this current world wants to take us out and one of the best things we can do is care for ourselves.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: One of those big things particularly for our queer communities is to update your status.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly so in order to do all the things you do and I I know you get funding in various ways but one of the ways that you get funding is through your annual gala I say gay some people say gala but I think gay la sounds better right and that's coming up December tell me what's in store for that oh my gosh it is going to be so much fun.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I love our gala I say gay la too because I'm a gay la.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I get so excited about our gayla because one of the things working with marginalized folks most people most of them don't get to to celebrate and there's a lack of you know queer joy there's a lack of black joy and we bring all of that to the place we're gonna have a violinist an amazing DJ we have some amazing honorees including Diamond Styles who is an award-winning podcaster Ronald Matters who is an award-winning blogger we have you know local community members who are going to be honored and international researchers that lead HIV prevention trials network studies as well as the Gilead Compass initiative which was Gilead's investment in the South of over$10 million to four different coordinating centers including University of Houston, Emory University, Southern AIDS Coalition and Wake Forest University School of Divinity.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're going to be honored in this space and we're just really really excited for the event but also we are we are committed as you can probably tell we are committed to the future and and moving forward the reality is like a community save me and community will sustain our organization.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're inviting people to come out and enjoy themselves to embrace you know these narrative changers that we're going to be honoring but also to help to change the narrative through making sure our organization is sustainable.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: This is Deborah Moncrieve Bell and I'm speaking with Ian Haddock, the founder and executive director of the normal anomaly now Ian you mentioned this like we're in a society that wants to take us out and those people that are on the margins in particular are in jeopardy because of that.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: I know there's a lot of stress because of that there's a lot of fear because of that.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: So what does the normal anomaly offer in terms of mental health?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that's a great question first of all and I'm not sure how much I will share but I want to share a word of thanks to you for you know being in community with me during a tough time for myself several several months ago four or five months ago I had what I consider my first major panic attack and I'm sure now looking back I had many different anxiety attacks but I had a a major one and I shared it publicly on social media.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And Deb, you were so helpful and so loving and so consoling.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to publicly thank you for that care and concern.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that has pushed the Norma Anomaly to try and figure out ways that we can support our community in the past we've given out opportunities for scholarships for therapy and we have worked with therapists to you know give reduced cost or low cost excuse me therapy sessions.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: But you know from my experience and as I talked to the team at the Normal Anomaly one of the things that we realized is my experience is not unlike other people aka it was a normal anomaly and you know people you know I went to the doctor and I did get on medication for my anxiety but it was you know people sending me messages about this might work and I read this and this might be good to cope.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so we are starting a peer support group in the in December we'll be starting a peer support group that is going to be led by a counselor and one of our staff at the Normal Anomaly and it's simply going to be a place where people can come and talk and get information peer-to-peer from our work.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: We also do peer support in a more organized level in our Dallas location.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so that is through um a study through HIV Prevention Trials Network and that works through people can engage with a peer supporter one-on-one in Dallas to help them navigate through HIV and mental health systems.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have a directory of clinicians and connections and we navigate people directly through that.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: But here in Houston we'll be doing a peer support group twice a month that really is inspired by you and other people that reached out to me during that tough time for myself.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: Well I appreciate the thanks but you know to me that's just kind of what you do is that uh say it's that old thing about we're all just walking each other home.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what community is about is putting the unity in community.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: And uh of course I've worked for a long time with the Walk for Mental Health Awareness that uh Patrick McIlvain started.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the goal of that organization is like the normal anomaly, we want to remove stigmas because the stigma of having a mental illness of any kind and there are many, there's over a hundred and something including addictions.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: Many of us I didn't know until I was in my 60s that I was neurodivergent which means I think a little different than a lot of people but it's not necessarily a bad thing.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's just there are differences and people don't always understand what's going on when there's someone who does not behave as what they consider the norm.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: But there's so many of us that there's there's nothing normal.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: Normal is just a sitting on the washing machine right so finding matching the needs and resources is what we do.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: We try to find out how, okay, there's a stigma because people have attitudes uh and how do we remove that stigma?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that was found was that the stigma is the number one reason people don't seek out help.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the thing the normal anomaly and other organizations are saying we're here to help.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so all you have to do is let us know you need help and we're there for you.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm glad to know that I was able to offer you something I suffer from anxiety most of the time it's managed but when I have too difficult of a time I do have medication and so there's there should be no stigma on doing what you need to take care of your health and there's no health without mental health so you're just like we have we're holistic beings so it's all of us that that is incorporated in that.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well Ian tell me again about your gala coming up on December 11th the when, where and who will be there.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely it is December 11th from 6 p.m to 10 p.m at Bell Tower on 34th Street we're going to be honoring you know Diamond Styles, Dr.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: LaRon Nelson, uh Gilead Compass Initiative, and many and and two other people we are extremely excited you know going to have violinists great food great people uh would love to see everybody come out uh you can go on our website normalanomaly.org to find out any more information and who's hosting that evening I forgot friend my friend Uza Lodia from ABC13 eyewitness news I'm so excited yeah we adore her she she's marvelous so I thank you for being with us on Queer Voices to talk about the normal anomaly just for telling us about the normal anomaly and I wish you all the success in the world with Agala and with your programs going forward.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_08: This is Deborah Moncrief Bell and you've been listening to Queer Voices you have been listening to Queer Voices we are here every week at 8 p.m on Wednesdays on KPFT and you can also find us as a podcast wherever you find them.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_08: Be sure and support KPFT by donating through their website at KPFT.org that helps us stay on the air and supports listener funded radio this show is created by Brian Lavinka, Deborah Moncrief Bell, Jacob Newsom, Joel Tatum, Davis Mendoza DeRuzman, and Ethan Michelle Gantz.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_08: And I am Brett Cullum and I hope to produce this week's episode.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_08: See you next week