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Can Ferrari win the constructors championship? Mexico City GP Review · Pit Talk

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pit Talk, a Fox Sports and
0:02
Speaker 1: Speed Cafe Formula one podcast. On today's episode, Ferrari wins
0:07
Speaker 1: again with Carlos Science, triumphing from pol at the Mexico
0:10
Speaker 1: City Grand Prix, and controversy rains again with another Max
0:14
Speaker 1: for Staffen and Lando Norris Jewel attracting yet more penalty controversy.
0:19
Speaker 1: My name is Michael Lamonato, motorsport rider for Fox Sports Australia.
0:23
Speaker 1: It's great to have your company and the company of
0:25
Speaker 1: my co host from Speed Cafe. He regularly flips off
0:29
Speaker 1: other drivers when he's in the car, but has never
0:30
Speaker 1: felt the need to apologize. It's Matt Coosh.
0:33
Speaker 2: I don't apologize. I'm sorry. That's just the way I am.
0:35
Speaker 1: That's part of your character. That's okay. And you don't
0:39
Speaker 1: have helmet Marco standing over your shoulder, I suppose threatening
0:42
Speaker 1: to take away your car.
0:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is also very true. I mean, who would
0:46
Speaker 2: want helmet Marco stood over them threatening to take away
0:49
Speaker 2: the car. I mean it's a big threat, really, isn't it.
0:53
Speaker 2: It can make or break your entire life.
0:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can. There's no overestimating it really is.
1:01
Speaker 2: So that one fingered salute could be the last year given.
1:04
Speaker 1: Well, at least you went down in style as oppose
1:08
Speaker 1: cut something off his chest on the way. That was,
1:09
Speaker 1: of course Liam Lawson in the closing stages of the
1:12
Speaker 1: Grand Prix Aga and flipping off Sergio Periz.
1:14
Speaker 2: He's got some spunk. I like it.
1:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
1:16
Speaker 3: He's already started two rivalries and two Grand Prix.
1:20
Speaker 2: Well, in fairness, one won't last long and the other
1:23
Speaker 2: can't really have much longer statistically.
1:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's really making ways. I'm glad to see it.
1:29
Speaker 1: We'll talk about the Mexico City Grand Prix in just
1:32
Speaker 1: a moment, but we're in the middle of a triple
1:34
Speaker 1: header and so news is flowing thick and fast, and
1:37
Speaker 1: let's catch you up with the top five stories from
1:39
Speaker 1: the last week, and the biggest one matt Is Piastree
1:43
Speaker 1: to Red Bull. Well, it's not that that's not happened,
1:45
Speaker 1: but Red Bull Motors sport advisor Helmut Marco, his second
1:48
Speaker 1: reference of the day, has claimed that Oscar Piastri's manager
1:50
Speaker 1: Mark Webber is enthusiastically seeking talks with Red Bull about
1:54
Speaker 1: the possibility of taking the Australian too. Milton Keynes, Piastri
1:57
Speaker 1: of course, was asked about this in Mexico. It's contract
2:00
Speaker 1: to McClaren for at least another two years, and has
2:01
Speaker 1: denied he's looking for a move.
2:03
Speaker 2: Because he's not. Yeah, it's that simple. It is that simple.
2:09
Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with Oscar past and I
2:11
Speaker 2: must have been I reported on this with Oscar's comments,
2:14
Speaker 2: refuting Helmet Marco because it was put to Oscar. But
2:18
Speaker 2: I did some thinking on this. It has nothing to
2:20
Speaker 2: do with Oscar. Mark Webbert is seeking a meeting with
2:24
Speaker 2: Helmet Marco, but it is completely disconnected from Oscar. Piastre.
2:28
Speaker 2: Take that to me and what you like.
2:29
Speaker 1: It's also not surprising that we've seen a real ramping
2:33
Speaker 1: up in the last month. I'm willing to say of
2:35
Speaker 1: just red Bull and McLaren what I would describe as
2:38
Speaker 1: blatant shit stirring.
2:40
Speaker 2: This is This isn't shit stirring. This is not shit
2:43
Speaker 2: stirring whatsoever. This is Helmut Marco has said something that
2:46
Speaker 2: is factually.
2:47
Speaker 1: Correct, deliberately out of context. Way.
2:51
Speaker 2: Well, we don't know that what the full quote was.
2:53
Speaker 2: We don't know if it's been taken and misconstrued or whatever,
2:56
Speaker 2: because it came out of the German press, but Mark
3:00
Speaker 2: is one chasing conversations with helmet Marco about a driver.
3:07
Speaker 2: There you go, more will more will come out?
3:10
Speaker 1: Yes, well let's move on to another reedid Yes, right, yes,
3:14
Speaker 1: another Red Bull driver and that is Yuki Sonoda because
3:16
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner says Yuki will
3:19
Speaker 1: get his long awaited test in an up to date
3:21
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing car at the end of season ABU
3:23
Speaker 1: Dhrby test. It's reportedly down to Honda pressure, but Horner
3:27
Speaker 1: says it's been in the works for a long time,
3:29
Speaker 1: probably not though quite the four years it's known as
3:32
Speaker 1: a big part of the family.
3:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got accused of clickbait with this. I wrote,
3:37
Speaker 2: that's all right, Sonoda gets Red Bull call up. I
3:40
Speaker 2: think it's the headline that I put on it, which
3:42
Speaker 2: it absolutely does. It's just we're also predisposed to expecting
3:48
Speaker 2: that Sergio Perryz is going to be dumped. That we
3:52
Speaker 2: just assumed that that there means it's just going to
3:54
Speaker 2: get the race dry, which of course it doesn't. He's
3:55
Speaker 2: going to get the call up for the ABU Dhaby
3:57
Speaker 2: test that will make him the senior driver there. So
4:00
Speaker 2: what we know therefore is that neither Maxwsappan nor so
4:04
Speaker 2: Jo Perez will be part of that test alongside him.
4:07
Speaker 2: In the junior car, you would therefore expect someone like
4:08
Speaker 2: Isaac Hadja, which then almost certainly therefore means that Liam
4:12
Speaker 2: Lawson will be in action at RB. He's no longer
4:15
Speaker 2: a junior driver. So in the other car there you
4:19
Speaker 2: probably have someone like Arviad Lindlad. He's not ready for formulae,
4:23
Speaker 2: but give him some exposure. I dare say at some
4:27
Speaker 2: point we'll talk about Franco Colopinto as well, but he
4:29
Speaker 2: wouldn't be eligible for that Young Driver test also because
4:32
Speaker 2: you've got to compete. I think it's fewer than three
4:34
Speaker 2: core prix, which is why Liam's out of it and
4:38
Speaker 2: why he hasn't been doing the Friday sessions. But yeah,
4:40
Speaker 2: Snodo getting that test. Honda have been pushing him pretty heavily,
4:47
Speaker 2: not just this year but in previous years. It's just
4:50
Speaker 2: Red Bull has been able to say no with justifiable reason,
4:53
Speaker 2: and that reason is very hard to justify this year.
4:57
Speaker 1: Let's move on to in a way Sergio, and we're
5:00
Speaker 1: talking more about him later on, but organizers of the
5:02
Speaker 1: Mexico City Grand Prix entering negotiations for a contract extension
5:06
Speaker 1: beyond the end of next season, and they're expressing optimism,
5:10
Speaker 1: and the context is pretty obvious that the race can
5:12
Speaker 1: be successful with or without Joe Perez on the grid
5:16
Speaker 1: point of the fact tickets sold out extremely quickly just
5:18
Speaker 1: days after he crashed out on the first lap of
5:20
Speaker 1: last year's race, and the fact that demand is just
5:23
Speaker 1: so high in this drive to survive era.
5:26
Speaker 2: It's also a really cheap event for us. Perhaps that's
5:30
Speaker 2: different if you're in Mexico. I'm not averse to what
5:33
Speaker 2: you're not across, rather what the average income is over
5:37
Speaker 2: there and how big a hit the tickets are. But
5:40
Speaker 2: my recollection, is there any like eighty dollars for a
5:43
Speaker 2: general admission ticket, which is the cheapest of the year.
5:47
Speaker 2: But yeah, they expect that if Sergio is not there,
5:50
Speaker 2: I guess there'll be a drop in interest. But Formula
5:52
Speaker 2: one is such that tickets almost everywhere at the moment
5:56
Speaker 2: of selling out. The Australian Grand Prix sold out within
6:00
Speaker 2: so it's not localized to one market. I expect that
6:03
Speaker 2: there's enough demand there, given just the size of Mexico
6:06
Speaker 2: City was at twenty million people, it was about the
6:08
Speaker 2: size of Australia in terms of populous population. So yeah,
6:14
Speaker 2: I don't imagine I'll have too many dramas. Selling was
6:17
Speaker 2: one hundred and something thousand tickets. There was a record
6:20
Speaker 2: crowd on the weekend.
6:21
Speaker 1: It is one of the great events as well. Have
6:23
Speaker 1: you ever in the area of Mexico worth getting along
6:27
Speaker 1: to the Mexico City Grand Prix? Moving to a couple
6:29
Speaker 1: of days before the race at the weekend, McLaren lodged
6:32
Speaker 1: a right of a review against Lando Norris's penalty from
6:36
Speaker 1: the United States Grand Prix the week earlier, but after
6:38
Speaker 1: Friday hearing, the stuarts found the team didn't bring any
6:40
Speaker 1: new or relevant information to the table, the information having
6:43
Speaker 1: been the ruling document itself.
6:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was having stopping some messages with a few
6:50
Speaker 2: people over the weekend on this one. And you remember
6:53
Speaker 2: Ferrari was at Canada. They introduced a carin Chandoo Hi
6:57
Speaker 2: analysis guy. That was the significant, relevant, new piece of
7:02
Speaker 2: information which got thrown out. There is a high bar
7:07
Speaker 2: that you need to meet to hit that threshold in
7:10
Speaker 2: terms of what is new and relevant. Mcclarence has perhaps
7:15
Speaker 2: set a new low bar for that.
7:18
Speaker 1: Hang on. There are lower bars, but god are they?
7:21
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, don't you remember twenty twenty one British
7:24
Speaker 3: Grandfrix when Christian Horners and Alex Elvon around in a
7:27
Speaker 3: red book car to prove that Lewis Hamilton wouldn't have
7:30
Speaker 3: been able to make the corner at cops.
7:32
Speaker 1: That for me remains the lowest bar.
7:34
Speaker 2: But there they have just gone, you spelt that word wrong.
7:38
Speaker 2: This is the Grammar Police getting out there and having
7:41
Speaker 2: a go at this, and that's what it's got thrown
7:43
Speaker 2: out on effectively a technicality in terms of process rather
7:46
Speaker 2: than the actual content of the argument itself. And that
7:50
Speaker 2: all goes to the racing guidelines, which themselves are interesting.
7:54
Speaker 2: I've written the piece on Speak Cafe about those. That's
7:58
Speaker 2: the documents evolved in the last two or three years.
8:01
Speaker 2: For some reason, it's not publicly available. I do have
8:04
Speaker 2: a copy. I have read it. It's six pages long.
8:07
Speaker 2: It's very boring, and there is a lot of self
8:14
Speaker 2: importance about the document. It's going to be included in
8:16
Speaker 2: the International Sporting Code article as appendix and LO or
8:19
Speaker 2: something I think next year. But at the moment you've
8:22
Speaker 2: got the racing guidelines that feed sort of into the
8:26
Speaker 2: race director's notes that sort of feed into the sporting
8:29
Speaker 2: regulations that sort of feed into the International Sporting Code
8:32
Speaker 2: and underpinning all out of the statutes. It's an excessively
8:37
Speaker 2: complicated system that guidelines are not rules either. They just
8:41
Speaker 2: designed to help and offer some consistency, which has worked
8:45
Speaker 2: really well.
8:46
Speaker 1: Guidelines sounds a lot like a high to the Caribbean plotline,
8:49
Speaker 1: doesn't it. Finally to the European Union, where the competition
8:53
Speaker 1: regulator has been asked for a second time to look
8:56
Speaker 1: into Formula one and or Liberty Media, the owner of
8:58
Speaker 1: the commercial rights, following calls from a Belgian member of
9:01
Speaker 1: Parliament earlier this year to look into Liberty's planned acquisition
9:04
Speaker 1: of MotoGP. Now a German MAP is asked for an
9:07
Speaker 1: investigation into whether the sports denial of Andretti's bid to
9:10
Speaker 1: join F one could amount to cartel like behavior by
9:14
Speaker 1: the existing teams. And it's worth saying that Liberty Media
9:16
Speaker 1: is already facing an anti trust investigation in the US
9:19
Speaker 1: over the same matter.
9:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the EU stuff. It's important to clarify that
9:24
Speaker 2: there are two different things that have been us One
9:28
Speaker 2: is the MotoGP and the dawner stuff, which would give
9:32
Speaker 2: them effectively a monopoly. That's one element. The other is
9:34
Speaker 2: whether of exercised rights that perhaps they shouldn't have. And
9:41
Speaker 2: this speaks to a piece that I wrote a couple
9:43
Speaker 2: of weeks ago looking at Formula one the commercial rights
9:47
Speaker 2: holders involvement in the entry process. Back in two thousand
9:51
Speaker 2: and one, Formula one, the FIA found themselves in front
9:54
Speaker 2: of the EU Commission. It was a three year investigation
9:56
Speaker 2: over exactly the point that this Braziliani German meb because
10:02
Speaker 2: Brazil is in the Europe, isn't it people? It has
10:06
Speaker 2: been a long weekend. This has been heard and tested previously,
10:13
Speaker 2: and it was insisted by the European Commission that there
10:17
Speaker 2: was complete separation of the commercial rights of Formula one,
10:21
Speaker 2: the commercial aspect of it and the regulatory aspect. That
10:24
Speaker 2: was tested in court the year after in two thousand
10:26
Speaker 2: and two and proved to exist because there are agreements
10:28
Speaker 2: that were drawn up at that period at that point
10:31
Speaker 2: in time. Since then, we've had there was a ten
10:35
Speaker 2: year agreement in terms of TV commercial rights, one hundred
10:37
Speaker 2: year agreement that now exists somewhere along the line. That
10:40
Speaker 2: complete separation has been diluted and if you really want
10:44
Speaker 2: to know what's quite fascinating this stuff really interests me
10:48
Speaker 2: that article is on to speak. Cafe I titled it
10:51
Speaker 2: something like the contract clause that could cost Formula one
10:54
Speaker 2: or Liberty Media billions because the penalty for it can
10:58
Speaker 2: be quite significant in the US, where the same challenge
11:02
Speaker 2: is being made. Basically, is Formula one right to have
11:07
Speaker 2: any say, not that it blockedown Trette or ANDREADI in particular,
11:11
Speaker 2: but have any say in the admission of new entrants
11:13
Speaker 2: into the championship.
11:14
Speaker 1: It will be an interesting story to see it rumble
11:16
Speaker 1: on over years, probably, but look, you never know. Sometimes
11:20
Speaker 1: these things move surprisingly quickly.
11:23
Speaker 2: Matt.
11:23
Speaker 1: Let's look now at the Mexico City Grand Prix. Quite
11:27
Speaker 1: a big weekend in the story of this season. As
11:29
Speaker 1: we hurdle towards the conclusion of twenty twenty four, it
11:32
Speaker 1: actually feels like things are getting less and less predictable,
11:34
Speaker 1: more and more interesting, which isn't always the way things go.
11:37
Speaker 1: In Formuda one, Carloss signs one for Ferrari, their second
11:41
Speaker 1: consecutive victory, and he had a great weekend, dominated in
11:44
Speaker 1: qualifying two laps good enough for pole position after keeping
11:47
Speaker 1: his head down actually in the first two segments when
11:49
Speaker 1: it looked like it might all go McLaren's way, and
11:51
Speaker 1: certainly Ferrari wasn't super optimistic about getting pole positioned, but
11:54
Speaker 1: he's a wonderful job there and then really controlled this
11:58
Speaker 1: race even despite losing the lead off the line Max
12:00
Speaker 1: was staff and he said afterwards he anticipated that knew
12:02
Speaker 1: he was going to get him back eventually. It was
12:04
Speaker 1: a great move that got him back as well into
12:06
Speaker 1: turn one after the safety car, and just controlled the
12:09
Speaker 1: race from there. I want to start with Carlos science
12:12
Speaker 1: before we look at the broader implications here, because he
12:14
Speaker 1: said afterwards, this is quite an emotional victory for him.
12:17
Speaker 1: Not only do you have his family there and this
12:18
Speaker 1: is the first race he won with his mum in attendance.
12:22
Speaker 1: But said afterwards, of course, as we all know that
12:24
Speaker 1: this could be his last race win with Ferraris is
12:28
Speaker 1: his last season with the team. Ortho car looks competitive
12:31
Speaker 1: enough now they could be in contention for many more wins.
12:34
Speaker 1: But also in his head, Matt must be that this
12:36
Speaker 1: could be his last win full stop, because we know
12:39
Speaker 1: he's going to Williams from next year, and while that
12:41
Speaker 1: team is on the up somewhat, He's not going to
12:43
Speaker 1: be on the up such to the point that they'll
12:44
Speaker 1: be winning races in the next couple of years unless
12:46
Speaker 1: they really pull a blinder with the new rules in
12:48
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. And beyond that, of course, who knows
12:51
Speaker 1: drivers of great caliber found themselves pushed to the margins
12:55
Speaker 1: of the sport just because of how quickly things move
12:56
Speaker 1: in the driver market, how importants old for Carla Science
13:02
Speaker 1: was this in his career before even considering the fact
13:04
Speaker 1: this was obviously quite an important win for Ferrari's title hopes.
13:07
Speaker 2: In the context of his career, this has more personal
13:10
Speaker 2: value than professional value. And I say that because we
13:15
Speaker 2: know what he's going to do for the next two years,
13:18
Speaker 2: three years. He's going to Williams and he's going to struggle.
13:22
Speaker 2: And that's that's a sad thought. Because I rate Carla Science.
13:27
Speaker 2: I rate Carla Science greater than Charlotte Claire. If I
13:31
Speaker 2: had the two Ferrari drivers, I could only keep one,
13:33
Speaker 2: I would choose Carlo Science. Shah is quicker of a
13:36
Speaker 2: single lap, but Carlos is just he's so reliable, he's
13:40
Speaker 2: so dependent, he's so consistent, he's so intelligent as well.
13:44
Speaker 2: You know, if the car and team strike troubles, I'd
13:47
Speaker 2: back Carlos to be able to help engineer it out
13:49
Speaker 2: of that. That's the value that he has, and it's
13:53
Speaker 2: it's a travesty that he's being taken out of a
13:56
Speaker 2: race winning, potentially championship winning car to go and scrap
14:00
Speaker 2: away for a handful of points. You know, he's going
14:02
Speaker 2: to be fighting, realistically at best for ninth, assuming the
14:06
Speaker 2: top four teams are any good, and then if Aston
14:08
Speaker 2: Martin lifts its game, which it should, that there's no
14:12
Speaker 2: points left on offer, so he's fighting for eleventh. That's
14:17
Speaker 2: We've seen it before. It's not unique. I mean, just
14:19
Speaker 2: look at Voucheri Botas you know, he's won what ten
14:21
Speaker 2: Rols pri and he's last in the in the drivers championship,
14:26
Speaker 2: he's technically below Logan Sergeant. He's got no points.
14:32
Speaker 1: Only twenty fourth of twentieth twenty fourth is here in
14:36
Speaker 1: the twenty time he's.
14:38
Speaker 2: Twenty third in a twenty car championship. There are three
14:42
Speaker 2: drivers in that who've not scored one new Joe Logan
14:44
Speaker 2: Sergeant and valuer Botas. Liam Lawson is ahead of him.
14:48
Speaker 2: Franko Colopinto is ahead of him, but focusing on on
14:52
Speaker 2: Carlos absolutely right. This could be the last win of
14:55
Speaker 2: his career, and it was an impressive win. He was
14:58
Speaker 2: calm under pressure, he was composed. He then controlled the race,
15:03
Speaker 2: He understood what was happening and then just did what
15:06
Speaker 2: he needed to do. Didn't make a mistake under that pressure.
15:09
Speaker 2: It was another great drive. A little bit like Singapore
15:12
Speaker 2: last year, Melbourne started this year was a little bit
15:14
Speaker 2: different because he sort of inherited that in many respects.
15:17
Speaker 2: But to think that he may well never win another
15:20
Speaker 2: Grand Prix is a disgusting thought because he's too good
15:23
Speaker 2: for that. It's a little bit like Fernando Alonso retiring
15:26
Speaker 2: as a two time world champion, when and if he
15:28
Speaker 2: ever does retire, you know, that's a disgusting thought because
15:33
Speaker 2: there's a guy who deserves so much more. He has
15:36
Speaker 2: a talent for so much more, and for one reason
15:38
Speaker 2: or other, much of it self inflicted. He won't get that.
15:42
Speaker 2: The difference for Carlos is this isn't self inflicted.
15:45
Speaker 1: Yes, I was going to say that is the principal
15:47
Speaker 1: difference here is that it's not through bad decision making
15:51
Speaker 1: or you know, he might be a falling out with
15:52
Speaker 1: the team or whatever. He would Yeah, and something I've
15:55
Speaker 1: been saying all week, Ferrari would have loved to have
15:58
Speaker 1: kept him had Lewis Hamilton not been on the market.
16:01
Speaker 1: And that's a highly unusual situation, not just it being
16:04
Speaker 1: Lewis Hamilton, but any massive name, multiple champion driver suddenly
16:08
Speaker 1: being on the market unexpectedly and this happening in this way,
16:12
Speaker 1: which is a terrible And I can't help but think
16:14
Speaker 1: after this win, because this was much in the style
16:17
Speaker 1: of almost all these wins. Really, you know, it was hard,
16:20
Speaker 1: it was worked through cleverly. It showed great speed, but
16:22
Speaker 1: showed that great harness of all the race details. It
16:25
Speaker 1: was a classic Science win in that respect. It's such
16:29
Speaker 1: I mean, it's absurd, isn't it That he's known all
16:32
Speaker 1: year that he's not going to be in a front
16:33
Speaker 1: running car, but none of the other front running teams
16:36
Speaker 1: found room for him. And we'll talk about Red Bull
16:38
Speaker 1: Racing in a second, but I mean that should have
16:41
Speaker 1: just been the obvious move, Carlos Science going to Red Bull,
16:44
Speaker 1: But of course, because there's tension between former tension between
16:48
Speaker 1: their fathers, he's not going there. And of course, Red
16:51
Speaker 1: Bull Racing is so focused on keeping the verstaff and
16:53
Speaker 1: camp happy that it was not possible for them. You know, Mercedes,
16:57
Speaker 1: I understand they're bringing in the next generation driver, but
16:59
Speaker 1: they accelerated that plan. It wasn't always the plan. Obviously
17:02
Speaker 1: they thought that gonn have Lewis Hamilton next year, but
17:04
Speaker 1: surely there would have been a short teram option for
17:06
Speaker 1: him there. McClaren's obviously the only front running team that's
17:09
Speaker 1: all tied up, so that's fine, but there were so
17:12
Speaker 1: many seats available in which he could have had a
17:15
Speaker 1: more competitive short to medium term future. And just remarkably,
17:19
Speaker 1: and this is a look the sport moves very quickly.
17:21
Speaker 1: It's not an indictment on the sport or the situation,
17:23
Speaker 1: probably an indictment on Red Bull, but it's just remarkable
17:26
Speaker 1: that the driver views caliber has not been able to
17:29
Speaker 1: find a seat in the top eight teams on the Grims.
17:34
Speaker 1: It's a real pity and it's something that it's going
17:36
Speaker 1: to be a storyline for the coming years of how
17:38
Speaker 1: he fares there, whether or not Williams can take a
17:40
Speaker 1: meaningful step forward, and then of course after two or
17:43
Speaker 1: three years, whether or not he can put himself back
17:45
Speaker 1: into the driver market for a more competitive seat if
17:47
Speaker 1: Williams is not achieving a great trajectory. But let's look
17:50
Speaker 1: at for Auri more broadly now, because this is the
17:52
Speaker 1: second win in a row after the United States, which
17:56
Speaker 1: was an important marker for that team's development, for its
18:00
Speaker 1: struggles in the middle of the year. This was a
18:02
Speaker 1: completely different type of circuit. The layout on paper should
18:04
Speaker 1: have suited the car, but traditionally, or in the last
18:06
Speaker 1: few years anyway, the high altitude hasn't always worked for
18:09
Speaker 1: that package. But they nailed it. Car was fast than qualifying,
18:12
Speaker 1: as I said, Charlotte Leclair took that point for fastest
18:15
Speaker 1: slap he had the pit stop distance behind him. Nonetheless,
18:17
Speaker 1: very complete performance from the team, now up to second
18:22
Speaker 1: in the Constructor's Championship, only twenty nine points behind McLaren
18:26
Speaker 1: and twenty five ahead of Red Bull Racing doubt Scot
18:28
Speaker 1: McLaren ninety six to fifty in the last two rounds.
18:31
Speaker 1: It's closed the gap quite dramatically. The championship fields on.
18:36
Speaker 1: I know you tell thirty points against the team that's
18:38
Speaker 1: probably at least as good as Ferrari. We don't know,
18:40
Speaker 1: of course, form guys changing all the time will take
18:43
Speaker 1: some closing, but Ferrari certainly feels like it's got the
18:47
Speaker 1: wind in its sales.
18:48
Speaker 2: If you look at any given weekend, the points differences
18:52
Speaker 2: between first and second, second and so their greatest. At
18:55
Speaker 2: the top end of town, there's what seven points between
18:58
Speaker 2: first and second twenty five to eighteen, So yes, there's
19:02
Speaker 2: thirty points there. But in the United States Ferriri claw
19:06
Speaker 2: back twenty seven or twenty eight. So that points gap
19:09
Speaker 2: between McLaren and Ferrari at the top of the standings
19:11
Speaker 2: now that could go this weekend potentially, So in the
19:17
Speaker 2: driver's championship, thirty points is far more comfortable than it
19:21
Speaker 2: will ever be in the constructors Championship. Also, you've got Ferrari,
19:25
Speaker 2: with both drivers scoring points. I've both won races in
19:28
Speaker 2: the last two events. Oscar Piastre has had a couple
19:31
Speaker 2: of weaker weekends, let's be perfectly honest about it. So
19:34
Speaker 2: while Lando is firing and delivering good results, Oscar is
19:40
Speaker 2: currently the weakest link of those four drivers, which is
19:43
Speaker 2: a ridiculous thing to say, because he's still a bloody
19:45
Speaker 2: good driver and I'd like him in my car. But
19:49
Speaker 2: that is just where we're at. And we've got four
19:52
Speaker 2: races to go. You know, that's what's the top of
19:55
Speaker 2: my head. Eightish points to really swing that. It's very
20:01
Speaker 2: very doable. That's first and second. That's basically having you know,
20:06
Speaker 2: a Ferrari first and McLaren second, a Ferrari third, McLaren fourth.
20:09
Speaker 2: There's your eight points. It's it's not not difficult. So
20:14
Speaker 2: we do legitimately have a proper constructors Championship battle. I
20:18
Speaker 2: don't think the drivers is really even what we're talking
20:20
Speaker 2: about anymore. I'm sure we'll broach it in a little bit.
20:24
Speaker 2: But red Bull now fifty four points behind. I mean,
20:30
Speaker 2: a team that dominated what was at the first seven
20:32
Speaker 2: races of the year, the first ten weeks, and they're
20:34
Speaker 2: not going to finish in the top two. And I
20:37
Speaker 2: love your stat from the other weekend. It'd be the
20:39
Speaker 2: worst constructor's performance relative to the driver's performance in forty years,
20:44
Speaker 2: forty one years, nineteen eighty three, I think you said,
20:47
Speaker 2: with murder Racing developments to their proper name, and because
20:52
Speaker 2: that's the sort of ann rash I am. And there's
20:54
Speaker 2: some PK. Yeah, So it's it's fascinating to see we're
21:03
Speaker 2: not just watching for Max Vilando. We're now watching Ferrari v. McLaren.
21:06
Speaker 2: There's two very different battles going on. And what we
21:11
Speaker 2: also now know, and this is what I said last week.
21:13
Speaker 2: It was a little bit presumptuous to expect it on
21:16
Speaker 2: one weekend Ferrari to have transformed. Let's give them another
21:20
Speaker 2: weekend or two. The odds are now suggesting that whatever
21:24
Speaker 2: Ferrari introduced in Singapore, because it didn't bring anything to
21:27
Speaker 2: the United States, whatever I'm introduced in Singapore has brought
21:30
Speaker 2: genuine pace to that car, and I'll be more confident
21:35
Speaker 2: backing Ferrari going to Sar Paolo than I was going
21:38
Speaker 2: into Mexico. So I reckon Ferrari is a really, really
21:41
Speaker 2: good chance of stealing the Constructors' championship here.
21:43
Speaker 1: I think for me, the bell weather is that Fred Vassa,
21:46
Speaker 1: the team principal, has a well for the first time.
21:49
Speaker 1: This is the first opportunity, I guess, but has actually
21:51
Speaker 1: sounded optimistic about things. He said, now we've seen enough
21:55
Speaker 1: tracks with this upgrade package, particularly Austin and now Mexico,
21:59
Speaker 1: that he's confident fer be in the mix for the
22:01
Speaker 1: rest of the season. He hasn't said they're gonna win
22:03
Speaker 1: every race, because he says it's just way too close
22:04
Speaker 1: to make prediction like that. But he said he's confident
22:07
Speaker 1: now that we're not going to get races where suddenly
22:09
Speaker 1: Ferrari's fourth and doesn't know what's going on, because we've
22:11
Speaker 1: got enough of a sample size with these new parts
22:14
Speaker 1: that he feels that confidence. He says the only thing
22:16
Speaker 1: he regrets is that now he's no longer flying under
22:18
Speaker 1: the raidar. He's enjoyed the last couple of months where
22:20
Speaker 1: Ferrari hasn't had focus on it, and he said he's
22:23
Speaker 1: very pleased that the Stafford and Norris keep running into
22:25
Speaker 1: one another because it means people are talking about something
22:27
Speaker 1: other than Ferrari. But it's going to be hard to
22:29
Speaker 1: continue to avoid that spotlight because the car looks like
22:32
Speaker 1: it's back to where it started the season essentially, and
22:34
Speaker 1: interestingly not just where it started the season, but it's
22:36
Speaker 1: almost as if it hasn't missed out on the development
22:40
Speaker 1: progress that for example, it feels like red Bull is
22:42
Speaker 1: missed out on right. All that troubleshooting time means they
22:45
Speaker 1: they've got the car in a good place again, at
22:46
Speaker 1: least with Max, but it's not dominant like it was
22:48
Speaker 1: at the start of the year, because it's missed months
22:50
Speaker 1: of development. So a really good job by Ferrari.
22:52
Speaker 2: Is that car in the good place though? Is it?
22:54
Speaker 1: Well, it's a podium contender, and I think that that
22:56
Speaker 1: means it's it's in the mix, which is all anyone
22:59
Speaker 1: can seem to hope for at this point in the season.
23:01
Speaker 1: You know it is all relative. But let's not forget Matt.
23:04
Speaker 1: To bring us to the final point of this Grand Prix,
23:06
Speaker 1: Max still pretty comfortably leads the Driver's Championship. Despite all
23:10
Speaker 1: its problems. The gaff has barely changed what is it
23:12
Speaker 1: has been a five point swing I think since the
23:15
Speaker 1: Miami Grand Prix, so throughout all the troubles, Max has
23:19
Speaker 1: been able to keep his head above water. The reason
23:22
Speaker 1: it's down to third in the Constructor's Championship is, as
23:24
Speaker 1: we've said before, Sergio Periz, He's underperformances have continued, if anything,
23:28
Speaker 1: have become more dire. Azerbaijan stands as this unusual outlier
23:33
Speaker 1: of a good weekend for him, although he did he
23:35
Speaker 1: did crash out of the race, so it didn't gore
23:36
Speaker 1: any points, but he was at least competitive that weekend.
23:39
Speaker 1: This was a real shock of him in the context
23:41
Speaker 1: of this being his home race. He arrived admitting it
23:44
Speaker 1: had a terrible season so far, but that one result
23:47
Speaker 1: can turn it around. He said he wanted to do
23:48
Speaker 1: it at home, bombed out of qualifying eighteenth, it was
23:51
Speaker 1: more than eight tenths of a second slower than the staff,
23:53
Speaker 1: and finished seventeenth and last. Slightly inflated result because, of
23:58
Speaker 1: course he went for that fastest lap late in the
24:00
Speaker 1: and to be fair to him, I suppose let's start
24:03
Speaker 1: with not the positives but the ameliorating factors. The damage
24:07
Speaker 1: he picked up battling with Lim Lawson meant the second
24:09
Speaker 1: half of the race he was never gonna be anyhe
24:10
Speaker 1: any of the points anyway. The flip side of that is,
24:12
Speaker 1: of course, he was forced into a recovery battle because
24:15
Speaker 1: he started outside of his good spot, which he curd
24:16
Speaker 1: a five second penalty which kind of undid that great
24:19
Speaker 1: start he did, and he couldn't put a clean move
24:21
Speaker 1: on Liam Lawson in a much slower car.
24:23
Speaker 2: Now.
24:24
Speaker 1: Lawson was battling hard, but that's his job. He's a
24:26
Speaker 1: racing driver, even if both cars are owned by Red Bull.
24:29
Speaker 1: And it feels like Matt the the vibe has changed
24:34
Speaker 1: slightly now like Red Bull's obviously clearly been running out
24:37
Speaker 1: of patients with Perez since it was clear that there's
24:39
Speaker 1: been no recovery since the mid season break, but it's
24:43
Speaker 1: kind of talked a kind of good game around him.
24:46
Speaker 1: Christian Horner keeps saying it's just a stack with the
24:48
Speaker 1: fact that he's got a contract from next year. It's
24:50
Speaker 1: I guess it's not really positive, but has tried to not
24:53
Speaker 1: buy into this idea that Peeris could be out of
24:55
Speaker 1: the team after this race, though, did no such thing.
24:58
Speaker 1: Refused to commit to him, not even be on the
25:00
Speaker 1: end of next year, but beyond the end of this
25:01
Speaker 1: weekend's a race in Brazil. It feels like that's as
25:06
Speaker 1: close as confirmation we've got that Red Bull's preparing for
25:08
Speaker 1: a Parees less future, and it's not surprising to see why.
25:12
Speaker 2: It's just logical. You know, the Constructors Championships gone, what
25:15
Speaker 2: are they fighting for now? You can put all your
25:18
Speaker 2: resources behind Max and then almost do whatever you like
25:21
Speaker 2: with the second car, but it's not been contributing anything
25:25
Speaker 2: for a long time. So if you make a change
25:27
Speaker 2: there and it gets worse, well what does it matter
25:29
Speaker 2: if you make a change and it gets better. Happy days?
25:32
Speaker 2: You know, the definition of insanity is to continue the
25:35
Speaker 2: same actions and the expectations of a different outcome. What
25:38
Speaker 2: they're therefore doing with Perez is insane. They can't carry
25:42
Speaker 2: on with that. And if you're going to introduce a
25:44
Speaker 2: variable and that variable is being entertained with a view
25:49
Speaker 2: towards next year, why not bring it in early and
25:52
Speaker 2: give yourself a little bit more time to bed that
25:54
Speaker 2: all down. Because there are things that each team will
25:57
Speaker 2: do differently, and each car will handle different And I
26:01
Speaker 2: think what we saw on Sunday in Mexico, across the
26:06
Speaker 2: whole weekend, even Sergio failed in qualifying, He was clumsy
26:10
Speaker 2: in the race on a couple of fronts. That was
26:12
Speaker 2: a desperate, desperate weekend for him. He wasn't his usual self.
26:17
Speaker 2: There was a huge amount of attention on him, and
26:19
Speaker 2: even earlier in the weekend, when Christian Horner was asked
26:22
Speaker 2: about Sergio and his plight and everything else, he turned
26:26
Speaker 2: the question around and started talking about the number of
26:28
Speaker 2: endorsements that Serjo was doing that weekend. He'd never actually
26:31
Speaker 2: directly answered the question. So the battle with Lim and
26:36
Speaker 2: the antagonization between those who it is one brilliant for us,
26:41
Speaker 2: we're watching a changing of the guards that that was
26:44
Speaker 2: personal between those two. And the reason it was is because,
26:48
Speaker 2: I mean, there's your next Red Bull driver. It's that simple.
26:52
Speaker 2: So that one fingered salute of limbs was a little
26:55
Speaker 2: bit more pointed towards Sergio, and that's perhaps why he's
26:59
Speaker 2: talking about you know, he doesn't have the right attitude
27:01
Speaker 2: and all sorts of things. You know, he's lashing out,
27:04
Speaker 2: he's desperate, he is watching his Formula one career disappear.
27:09
Speaker 2: Because if he drops out of the sport at the
27:11
Speaker 2: end of this year, where and how does he pop
27:13
Speaker 2: back in? Because the other guys who are out are
27:17
Speaker 2: the likes of Franco Colopinto, Isaac Hadjar, some other F
27:22
Speaker 2: two drivers who are knocking on the doors as well.
27:25
Speaker 2: All these other teams have junior programs. We don't even
27:27
Speaker 2: know if iFactory botas a more credential and more reliable
27:31
Speaker 2: driver is going to be on the grid next year.
27:34
Speaker 2: We think so, and we've had strong indications twice now,
27:37
Speaker 2: once they did signed at Williams and once they had
27:39
Speaker 2: signed it at SABA. Neither have obviously come true yet
27:44
Speaker 2: one might, but this is the desperate position that he
27:48
Speaker 2: finds himself. He's going to be forced into retirement exactly
27:51
Speaker 2: the same way that Daniel Ricardo was. But he's not
27:53
Speaker 2: going to get that glorious emotional send off where we
27:57
Speaker 2: all know what's happening but can't say it. He's just
28:00
Speaker 2: going to fall out the back door of Formula one,
28:03
Speaker 2: which is a shame because for a long time he
28:05
Speaker 2: has been a consistent, reliable performer in the midfield. He
28:08
Speaker 2: was a superstar. But when you're standing in that spotlight,
28:11
Speaker 2: there's no way to hide, and he's been found out.
28:14
Speaker 2: It's not to say he's a bad driver. He is
28:15
Speaker 2: an exceptional driver, and he's better than ninety nine point
28:18
Speaker 2: nine percent of drivers who will ever race a car
28:21
Speaker 2: of any sort. But being good enough, you know, being
28:25
Speaker 2: in the point zero one percentile is not good enough
28:29
Speaker 2: in formul on, and you've got to be in the
28:30
Speaker 2: point zero zero one percentile. That's where Max is, That's
28:33
Speaker 2: where Shao is, That's where Rebull clearly thinks Liam Lawson is.
28:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought the lashing out against Lawson was a
28:42
Speaker 1: little bit unseemly. It's not surprising when drivers obviously have
28:44
Speaker 1: difference of opinions about things that they criticize each other.
28:47
Speaker 1: That's fine, but he took it to an extent that
28:49
Speaker 1: I almost found a little bit breathtaking. There would have
28:51
Speaker 1: been a degree of, I guess, playing to the crowd,
28:54
Speaker 1: not that he was saying it to the audience, but
28:55
Speaker 1: it was his home race. Wants to sort of stick
28:57
Speaker 1: up for himself, g up the crowd a little bit,
28:59
Speaker 1: or gep the home fans. But I mean some of
29:02
Speaker 1: the stuff he said about not having the attitude for
29:04
Speaker 1: Formula one, not being cut out for a kind of thing,
29:07
Speaker 1: I just thought that, really did I think you've said
29:09
Speaker 1: it right? Reeked of desperation for a man who knows
29:11
Speaker 1: he was battling the guy who wants to take his
29:13
Speaker 1: seat and probably his odds on to take it. And
29:17
Speaker 1: if these are look, I've got to respect the fact
29:19
Speaker 1: that Sergio Perez is always fronted back up. Every season
29:22
Speaker 1: that he's ended badly, He's come back every race. It
29:25
Speaker 1: does feel like he turns up reset, even if when
29:28
Speaker 1: he's in the car it feels like the confidence does
29:30
Speaker 1: get bad and I feel like the confidence is now unrecoverable.
29:33
Speaker 1: But it's never really felt like he's put his head
29:35
Speaker 1: down too much outside of the car. I think that's
29:38
Speaker 1: to be commended, but I think someone probably needs to
29:41
Speaker 1: tell him that he's not going to be back next year,
29:44
Speaker 1: and he needs to probably a soak up these last races.
29:47
Speaker 1: I know it's hard for racing driver here. He keeps
29:49
Speaker 1: saying he's gonna be back next year, but even he
29:50
Speaker 1: has to at some point recognize that he's on the
29:52
Speaker 1: ropes and go out with a bit of dignity, because,
29:55
Speaker 1: like you say, it's very hard after you've battled with
29:58
Speaker 1: maximstaff On or even Botas against Hamilton, a front running
30:00
Speaker 1: team and being shown up to be less than great.
30:04
Speaker 1: But people will remember, you know, once his career has
30:07
Speaker 1: ended and people look back that actually was a really
30:09
Speaker 1: solid and slick performer in the midfield. And even look
30:11
Speaker 1: his first year or so at Red Bull Racing were
30:13
Speaker 1: decent at least did enough to win Max the twenty
30:15
Speaker 1: twenty one championship. You know deserves credit for the racing
30:17
Speaker 1: he did that year. Don't sully it with a petulant
30:23
Speaker 1: or desperate last few races like have go out there
30:26
Speaker 1: and hold your head up high.
30:28
Speaker 2: One thing that I just wanted to throw into the
30:29
Speaker 2: mix as well, is that he saved which is currently
30:32
Speaker 2: the estimantin team. Yeah, he put that team into administration.
30:36
Speaker 2: He saved hundreds and hundreds of jobs at that team,
30:40
Speaker 2: And for that alone, the guy massively deserves all our respect.
30:45
Speaker 2: We make a bit of fun of him at times
30:47
Speaker 2: because you know, hey, we're we're all for experts, that's
30:50
Speaker 2: what we do. But for that alone, I mean, the guy,
30:54
Speaker 2: the guy deserves something, deserves our respect for that because
31:00
Speaker 2: you know how many drivers will go out there and
31:03
Speaker 2: put themselves on the line to do the right thing
31:06
Speaker 2: for the hundreds of people that support them. There's a
31:08
Speaker 2: couple that would. Sergio Perrowz has absolutely gone on record
31:12
Speaker 2: and doing that. So for all of this aside, I
31:14
Speaker 2: do think he's going to exit the sport at the
31:16
Speaker 2: end of the season. You know, we deserve to applaud
31:20
Speaker 2: him and give him standing ovation for that because that
31:22
Speaker 2: was just way above and beyond.
31:24
Speaker 1: Let's move on now mat to the other big talking
31:26
Speaker 1: point of this weekend, and that was maximstaff and versus
31:30
Speaker 1: Lando Norris again times two and times three in fact,
31:32
Speaker 1: all in space of one lap. The context of this
31:36
Speaker 1: is the championship battle, which may or may not be
31:38
Speaker 1: on regardless of whether or not it's a realistic they
31:40
Speaker 1: are the top two in the championship, and Max would
31:43
Speaker 1: at least recognize that had he not had such a
31:45
Speaker 1: great start to this season, it would have been much closer.
31:47
Speaker 1: They're much closer rival than the points suggest the context
31:51
Speaker 1: of this, as we already talked about that Lando Norris
31:53
Speaker 1: got the penalty at the end of the United States
31:55
Speaker 1: Grand Prix as well, so the battle was already sort
31:58
Speaker 1: of frothing a little bit, and that was the big
32:00
Speaker 1: talking point heading into this race. And lo and behold,
32:02
Speaker 1: on lap ten, they find themselves battling again at turn
32:05
Speaker 1: four in almost identical circumstances to what happened in the
32:09
Speaker 1: US Norris trying to pass around the outside, didn't get
32:13
Speaker 1: it done on the track, passed off the track. But
32:15
Speaker 1: this was a little bit different, didn't He really tried
32:17
Speaker 1: hard to keep himself on the track. I thought his
32:19
Speaker 1: approach was different in letting Max push him off rather
32:22
Speaker 1: than deciding he was going to be pushed off and
32:24
Speaker 1: then executing the pass. I think that was a key difference.
32:27
Speaker 1: But then Max taking him a way off track at
32:29
Speaker 1: turned seven with no intention of making the corner. Both
32:32
Speaker 1: those incidents earned Max ten second penalties added up to
32:35
Speaker 1: twenty seconds, which took him out of the podium contention entirely.
32:39
Speaker 1: But it felt like a little bit the tide turned
32:40
Speaker 1: a bit against for Staffan and he's driving in the
32:43
Speaker 1: last seven days was particularly after the Mexico City Grand Prix.
32:46
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting too that Norris ventured that
32:49
Speaker 1: this was dirty driving against his friend. He was very
32:52
Speaker 1: pains to say, I respect Max, and I like Max,
32:54
Speaker 1: and I love battling with Max. But by the way,
32:56
Speaker 1: in brackets, driving bit dirty, isn't it? As well? On
33:01
Speaker 1: the weekend that the driving guidelines have come under the
33:03
Speaker 1: spotlight and will be changed in the next couple of
33:05
Speaker 1: weeks for review. It does feel like, after years of
33:09
Speaker 1: vestafen the Staffan's driving kind of being, for one of
33:13
Speaker 1: a better phrase, the lowest common denominator on how we
33:15
Speaker 1: adjudicate the sport, that actually those standards are changing a
33:19
Speaker 1: little bit.
33:20
Speaker 2: It does seem that way, but it's all sort of
33:23
Speaker 2: coincidental because the changes and everything else we mentioned it earlier.
33:29
Speaker 2: You know, they're being incorporated into the International Sporting Coach,
33:32
Speaker 2: so the changes were always going to happen, there will
33:34
Speaker 2: be some nuance in that that changes, and that sort
33:39
Speaker 2: of routine. You know. The driving sands were introduced in
33:43
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. It was a two page document that
33:44
Speaker 2: got changed a little bit for twenty twenty three and
33:47
Speaker 2: then largely rewritten for twenty twenty four. And there's a
33:53
Speaker 2: copy of them right there. I'm showing you, Michael. I've
33:56
Speaker 2: got them right here, and I've highlighted a bit here.
33:59
Speaker 2: It's it's note two to keep in mind. These just guideline.
34:02
Speaker 2: So I guess it's Article two A, Part three, and
34:06
Speaker 2: it specifically says, without in brackets, deliberately forcing the other
34:11
Speaker 2: car off the track at the exit. This includes leaving
34:13
Speaker 2: a fair and acceptable width for the car being overtaken
34:16
Speaker 2: from the apex to the exit of the corner. Now,
34:18
Speaker 2: that specifically relates to overtaking on the inside. So if
34:21
Speaker 2: the overtaking car is on the inside, would you say, Michael,
34:25
Speaker 2: that that has been applied consistent consistently or what a
34:30
Speaker 2: current the inside? Would it be commonplace for to sweep
34:33
Speaker 2: across the track on exit and crowd the other car
34:36
Speaker 2: off the road.
34:36
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty common you see crowding off the road.
34:39
Speaker 1: I feel like that's become a pretty standard part of driving.
34:42
Speaker 2: Yet this document was produced in February this year, and
34:45
Speaker 2: that line, in one way, shape or form, has been
34:48
Speaker 2: in the document since twenty twenty two. So these guidelines
34:51
Speaker 2: aren't being followed in a first point, the interpretation of them.
34:57
Speaker 2: You go back to the United States with Norris and
35:00
Speaker 2: Max and McLaren's argument sort of a side point to this.
35:04
Speaker 2: But you know, the rules are here, the rules are
35:06
Speaker 2: reasonably clear. I mean, they're not rules, they're guidelines. But
35:10
Speaker 2: you know, the fact is that it's all here, it's all documented,
35:13
Speaker 2: and yet we're seeing breaches of this or instances where
35:17
Speaker 2: this is clearly contradict what this says. So it's just
35:22
Speaker 2: for me, it's a stewarding thing that needs to be
35:25
Speaker 2: tightened up. And once you start tightening up on that
35:27
Speaker 2: sort of stuff and running drivers off the road gets penalized,
35:32
Speaker 2: even if you make the pass cleanly. You know, if
35:35
Speaker 2: you force another driver off the track at the exit,
35:37
Speaker 2: including leaving a fairy without leaving an acceptable width of
35:41
Speaker 2: the car being overtaken, yeah, punish them. It's how do
35:47
Speaker 2: we learn at school. We'd get detention or you lose
35:50
Speaker 2: a lunch or whatever it was, and would learn the
35:53
Speaker 2: lesson and we wouldn't do it again unless you're me,
35:55
Speaker 2: in which case you're doing many many But if you
36:00
Speaker 2: don't punish it, then you're going to normalize it. And
36:03
Speaker 2: that's where we've got to. This actually goes back, not
36:05
Speaker 2: I think to Max. It goes way back. I think
36:07
Speaker 2: to the eighties where we started to see some of
36:11
Speaker 2: this more aggressive, more desperate racing, where there were more
36:14
Speaker 2: liberties taken, there was more risk taken, and that has gradually,
36:18
Speaker 2: over the decades become normalized to the point where you
36:21
Speaker 2: look at what the way they racing Formula to Informat
36:24
Speaker 2: three and it's opening. Some of that stuff is just
36:29
Speaker 2: absolute madness. And then some of those guys reach reached
36:34
Speaker 2: Formula one and they bring that skill set with them
36:36
Speaker 2: and they just keep doing. Liam Lawson, arguably what he
36:41
Speaker 2: did with Fernando Lonzo was a great example of that.
36:43
Speaker 2: He learnt those skills racing and Formative two in Formula
36:46
Speaker 2: three and he transposed those into Formula one and it's
36:49
Speaker 2: just you can't do it in Formula one. Fernando had
36:53
Speaker 2: a point. You know, Liam didn't breach the guidelines, but
36:57
Speaker 2: Fernando equally had a point. You know, the risk is
37:01
Speaker 2: just higher. So the intent with these standards is that
37:05
Speaker 2: they're applied across the board, but they're not applied at all.
37:07
Speaker 2: They're not applied consistently, which opens a whole nother conversation.
37:14
Speaker 2: But bring it back to Max. He's just exploiting a
37:17
Speaker 2: weakness in the regulations. It's unsavory, but not everything that
37:20
Speaker 2: they're INCENTI did with Savory, not everything that Michael Schumacher
37:23
Speaker 2: did with Savory. Yet we look back and they're the
37:25
Speaker 2: greats of the sport.
37:26
Speaker 1: Take of that what you will, I think, well, I
37:27
Speaker 1: think there are a couple of different elements to that,
37:30
Speaker 1: and to what you said, the crowding a car off
37:32
Speaker 1: track as has become commonplace in overtaking, or rather the
37:36
Speaker 1: guidelines more broadly, I don't have such a problem with
37:40
Speaker 1: guidelines or rules being flexible. I mean, guidelines are a
37:43
Speaker 1: weird way. Probably shouldn't be flexible because they're evolving so much.
37:47
Speaker 1: The sports should be stewarded based largely on precedent, and
37:50
Speaker 1: the sport should be willing to bend rules or reinterpret
37:54
Speaker 1: rules based on and I already think this should be
37:57
Speaker 1: the case. What drivers think. I think reg yearly drivers
38:00
Speaker 1: should come together twenty drivers who are lucky enough to
38:02
Speaker 1: be racing in Grand Prix and say this is what
38:04
Speaker 1: we believe the standard should be when we're racing one another.
38:07
Speaker 1: This is what we're comfortable with, and that might change
38:09
Speaker 1: over time, but at the end of the day, they're
38:11
Speaker 1: the ones taking the risks and they need to understand
38:14
Speaker 1: what the rules are to ensure we're not regularly having
38:17
Speaker 1: penalties thrown out or things aren't becoming controversies. If it's
38:20
Speaker 1: a sort of common ground between them, then we're likely
38:22
Speaker 1: to get better racing and less stuarding interventions. So I
38:24
Speaker 1: think there should be perhaps a more formal role in that.
38:27
Speaker 1: I think it's actually probably a little bit concerning the guidelines,
38:30
Speaker 1: as the intention has been for years to appear in
38:32
Speaker 1: the International Sporting Code, to any on how prescriptive the
38:35
Speaker 1: guidelines end up being in the Sporting Code, because I
38:36
Speaker 1: think they should be a little bit fluid. Of course,
38:39
Speaker 1: there are going to be some pretty hard principles in there,
38:42
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, it's cars racing
38:44
Speaker 1: between white lines. There's only so many different ways you
38:46
Speaker 1: can say this is in or out. But the nuances
38:49
Speaker 1: of it should be really open to some flexibility about
38:52
Speaker 1: what the drivers think, whether that's going back three years
38:54
Speaker 1: incidents and coming up with what most people think is
38:57
Speaker 1: acceptable or not. Certainly or George Russell, who is the
39:01
Speaker 1: head of the GPDA, said nineteen out of the twenty drivers,
39:04
Speaker 1: the twentieth being Max Withstaffen all agreed that what happened
39:08
Speaker 1: in Austin was not in accordance with their understanding of
39:11
Speaker 1: how racing should be done, regardless what the guidelines say.
39:14
Speaker 1: So it situations like that where I feel like we
39:16
Speaker 1: should have sort of a bit of an alternative way
39:18
Speaker 1: of coming to an agreement of how the sport should
39:21
Speaker 1: be stewarded. Maybe that requires a smaller pool of stewards
39:24
Speaker 1: or one or two permanent ones that mix in with
39:26
Speaker 1: the rotating ones to ensure that precedence happens, because that's
39:30
Speaker 1: harder when the stewards are different week on week. Some
39:33
Speaker 1: people have suggested that's why the rules were not interpreted differently,
39:37
Speaker 1: but certainly punished Harsher this weekend. But that's just the
39:41
Speaker 1: matter of the sport. And look, you can say in football,
39:43
Speaker 1: the referee is different every week, even though they're professional.
39:45
Speaker 1: You're not going to get exactly the same calls, and
39:47
Speaker 1: maybe that's fine, But the other element is ver Staffan's driving.
39:52
Speaker 1: I largely don't have a problem with it, even turn
39:54
Speaker 1: for it and have a problem with it. I thought
39:56
Speaker 1: it was fine that he just got a penalty, and like,
39:58
Speaker 1: sometimes that's going to happen, sometimes drivers are just going
39:59
Speaker 1: to except the marks. But turn seven I did have
40:02
Speaker 1: an issue with it because I thought a was petulant,
40:05
Speaker 1: the fact that it really seemed to be retaliation, which
40:08
Speaker 1: should never really happen in racing. I feel like retaliation
40:11
Speaker 1: going off the track and breaking the rules is pretty dangerous,
40:14
Speaker 1: even if this wasn't a super dangerous Well it wasn't
40:16
Speaker 1: dangerous because Norris avoided it, but anyway, but then second
40:19
Speaker 1: to that, it did. And maybe this is the clever
40:21
Speaker 1: part of him interpreting the rules and knowing he was
40:23
Speaker 1: going to get a penalty, but it did hamper Norris's
40:25
Speaker 1: race and prevented him from maybe winning the Grand Prix.
40:27
Speaker 1: So put him fifteen seconds behind the leader at the
40:30
Speaker 1: first stop, and he ended up five seconds behind Science
40:32
Speaker 1: at the end of the race or thereabout, so using
40:34
Speaker 1: the rules to his advantage, I guess he did. Maybe
40:36
Speaker 1: that really is the definition of a professional foul for
40:38
Speaker 1: the staff, and maybe that's good on him for knowing that.
40:41
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I think there is an element
40:43
Speaker 1: of yeah, you're right. All the great drivers really know
40:47
Speaker 1: the limit of the rules and push the envelope slightly.
40:50
Speaker 1: Maybe this is him pushing it a little bit too much.
40:52
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's up for debate. I suppose there's
40:54
Speaker 1: all these rules inevitably are but I just think there's
40:57
Speaker 1: got to be some flexibility or some in from the
41:00
Speaker 1: drivers here, because there's no point policing rules that none
41:02
Speaker 1: of the drivers agree with, because I think that everyone
41:05
Speaker 1: loses from that. Every race will get drivers grumpy, it'll
41:07
Speaker 1: be controversial thefi are we forced to defend themselves. I
41:10
Speaker 1: don't think anyone wins from that.
41:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a degree of that. The flip side is
41:16
Speaker 2: that controversy is also good because it generates headlines. You
41:20
Speaker 2: want a little bit of drama in there. And that's
41:23
Speaker 2: a conversation that's been had in the office of late
41:27
Speaker 2: looking at supercars and the fact that there is no controversy,
41:30
Speaker 2: there is no niggle there to really spark, and so
41:33
Speaker 2: we've got that in Formula one in abundance. You know,
41:36
Speaker 2: we've got a deteriorating relationship between two mates, and Maxi
41:39
Speaker 2: Stap and Lando Norris now publicly having goes at one another,
41:41
Speaker 2: which is fabulous. We saw this with Lewis Hamilton and
41:45
Speaker 2: Nico Rosberg back in the day. I don't want them
41:47
Speaker 2: to damage a personal relationship. I never want that, but
41:52
Speaker 2: it's great for us from a sporting spectacle because now
41:55
Speaker 2: you can throw yourself behind It turns motorsport into a
41:58
Speaker 2: football match. You know your your orange or you're blue,
42:02
Speaker 2: and that that's kind of where we are. And then
42:04
Speaker 2: increasingly we've got red coming as well. So it's fabulous
42:08
Speaker 2: and that we get this tribalism, you get this allegiance
42:12
Speaker 2: to an individual driver of personality who you can identify
42:15
Speaker 2: with in their enough there's enough information about their personalities
42:18
Speaker 2: that you can relate to one of them. I love
42:22
Speaker 2: that Max is so determined that he will do whatever
42:26
Speaker 2: it takes to win. I love that determination, and I
42:28
Speaker 2: hope that my kids have that when they grow up
42:30
Speaker 2: to the same extent, to the same way that he doesn't.
42:32
Speaker 2: Maybe not, but that's beside the point. I love that
42:35
Speaker 2: about him. I love the way that the lando gets
42:39
Speaker 2: so emotional about it. You know that we've got these
42:41
Speaker 2: characters that we can see human traits in them. It's
42:45
Speaker 2: a positive story that the rules perhaps push or promote
42:51
Speaker 2: a little bit of that to the fur is not
42:54
Speaker 2: necessarily a bad thing. I'd hate this to turn into
42:59
Speaker 2: something where it's just so clearly black and white that
43:01
Speaker 2: you don't have this drama, because for me, this is
43:05
Speaker 2: better than a soap opera. You've got the battles on track,
43:09
Speaker 2: the battles in the paddock, the technical fight, the political fight,
43:12
Speaker 2: the financial stuff that go on. There's so many elements
43:14
Speaker 2: of this that it's just another It's just another strand
43:18
Speaker 2: of that rich tapestry that is Formula one. And I
43:21
Speaker 2: will speak passionately about it, and I will I will
43:25
Speaker 2: criticize and lament the regulations, and then when they fix them,
43:30
Speaker 2: I'll probably do the same and call for it to
43:33
Speaker 2: be back the way it was because it was better
43:35
Speaker 2: in my day.
43:37
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, Before we wrap this up, I'm going
43:39
Speaker 1: to go through the alternative championship picks. Getting close to
43:42
Speaker 1: the end of the year, I don't know how many
43:43
Speaker 1: weeks we've got left, but that means times running out.
43:45
Speaker 1: If you want to catch the leader, you're probably not
43:47
Speaker 1: going to there's a lot of points in the lead
43:49
Speaker 1: if you want to finish in the top three. Mainly,
43:51
Speaker 1: I think it's probably still possible. It's been it's been
43:55
Speaker 1: a controversial weeks. I think we probably have some good picks. Matt,
43:57
Speaker 1: do you want to start us?
43:59
Speaker 2: I'm going to kick us off the alternative championship where
44:01
Speaker 2: the points really don't matter and we usually take more
44:04
Speaker 2: than we give. I'm going to start off with max
44:09
Speaker 2: for stappin ye, and I'm going to take twenty points
44:13
Speaker 2: away for obvious reasons, but not for the moves themselves,
44:19
Speaker 2: for the excuse I wouldn't have had to go and
44:21
Speaker 2: get the penalties if I had a faster car. My
44:26
Speaker 2: car was too slow, so I had to push people
44:28
Speaker 2: off the track. So I'm taking twenty points off max
44:32
Speaker 2: Forstappen for a poor excuse at trying to defend or
44:39
Speaker 2: deflect or whatever from those two transgressions.
44:44
Speaker 1: Very good. I like that a lot. I'm going to start,
44:46
Speaker 1: unsurprisingly by taking points off fifty four points off Christian Horner,
44:50
Speaker 1: that being the gap between first and tend the constructive standings,
44:53
Speaker 1: just for want of a milestone for literally but appearing
44:57
Speaker 1: unironically to have it literally printed out when he brought
45:00
Speaker 1: Lando Norris's telemetry to his post race press conference to
45:04
Speaker 1: prove that Vestappen didn't deserve a penalty a turn for
45:07
Speaker 1: because Norris was going too fast to make the corner,
45:09
Speaker 1: despite the fact that video footage showed Norris clearly making
45:12
Speaker 1: the corner. Notably, map he did not bring Vestappen's telemetry
45:16
Speaker 1: from turn seven.
45:17
Speaker 2: It seems it's a bit of an oversight, doesn't it.
45:20
Speaker 1: I mean, must have run out of which I thought
45:24
Speaker 1: was quite wasteful.
45:24
Speaker 2: Or jammed or yeah, I mean princes are always jamming,
45:28
Speaker 2: aren't they. And you know, I want to know in
45:32
Speaker 2: the ink cartridges or the inside the cost company. That's
45:35
Speaker 2: the important question here.
45:36
Speaker 1: That's that's what should have been asked at that present
45:40
Speaker 1: in general.
45:40
Speaker 2: Laser Yeah, yes, all right, let's move seamlessly on. I'm
45:45
Speaker 2: for my second pick. I've got Liam Lawson and I'm
45:49
Speaker 2: going to give him just one single point for a
45:55
Speaker 2: tremendous display of dexterity.
46:00
Speaker 1: A lot, very good, well sum. I think it was
46:04
Speaker 1: a highlight of the rays. I do love when those
46:06
Speaker 1: videos surface. I feel like I inevitably missed them in
46:08
Speaker 1: the race coverage and then you say, oh, someone's seen
46:10
Speaker 1: the footage I've been flipping off. It was a good
46:13
Speaker 1: one as well. It was a clear one. Yeah, I
46:14
Speaker 1: thought that was good.
46:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just going to pass you one more time,
46:18
Speaker 2: so just once more.
46:19
Speaker 1: I really like the way he's going about his business.
46:21
Speaker 1: Two races in and he's absolutely taking no prisoners.
46:24
Speaker 2: Very good. Yeah, he's got some mongrel about him. It's good.
46:26
Speaker 2: I love it. Yes, he's fought hard to get there
46:28
Speaker 2: and he's leaving a few bruised eyes already. Good.
46:33
Speaker 1: For my second pick, I'm going to take fifteen points
46:35
Speaker 1: off Christian Horner for the following quote. I think we're
46:39
Speaker 1: in danger of flipping the overtaking laws upside down, where
46:42
Speaker 1: drivers will just try to get their nose ahead at
46:44
Speaker 1: the apex. The problem is, I think we're going to
46:46
Speaker 1: get into very dangerous territory of it. What point is
46:49
Speaker 1: a dive bomb going to be? Okay, that wasn't in
46:51
Speaker 1: reference to what Max Withstaffan did in the United States.
46:54
Speaker 1: It was in reference to Lando Norris going around the
46:56
Speaker 1: outset dive bombing around the outside of a corner. I
47:00
Speaker 1: mean that just for me. Look, that was just superbly
47:03
Speaker 1: disingenuous Horner and he deserves fifteen points off for it.
47:10
Speaker 2: It's just, yeah, I'm excited you've gone Christian Horning for
47:15
Speaker 2: your first year. Second, Bich, I'm very much looking forward
47:18
Speaker 2: to your third, and I'm going to be very disappointed
47:20
Speaker 2: it's not Christian Horner. Yeah, the irony in that statement
47:27
Speaker 2: is just tremendous.
47:28
Speaker 1: Well, I think the problem is he had none problem.
47:32
Speaker 2: And there was none to him, but to everyone else. Yes,
47:36
Speaker 2: the irony was lost on him. The irony of that, Yeah,
47:40
Speaker 2: that's that's fantastic. I do love that. My last pick
47:45
Speaker 2: probably not on anyone's radar, but Prelli, I'm taking ninety
47:48
Speaker 2: points on free for having to watch free practice two.
47:52
Speaker 1: No oh for Relly.
47:54
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't there.
47:55
Speaker 1: They're not allowed to do in season testing, wasn't there.
47:58
Speaker 2: We've got we've got cost caps, we've got all of
48:01
Speaker 2: this stuff that surely there's a way that teams are
48:04
Speaker 2: making money now, unless you Williams needed one hundred million
48:07
Speaker 2: pound injection. But there's got to be a better way
48:11
Speaker 2: than forcing the watching world to absorb ninety minutes of
48:18
Speaker 2: And the thing is, we didn't even know what we
48:20
Speaker 2: were watch. It was they had these predetermined plans. Share
48:24
Speaker 2: a bit more information with us. Is it going to impact.
48:27
Speaker 2: We're not going to sneak into your labs and mess
48:29
Speaker 2: with your data. Just tell us what's going on so
48:31
Speaker 2: that we can understand what we're watching. That was a
48:35
Speaker 2: painful ninety minutes. And then at the end with the
48:37
Speaker 2: red flag, you know we didn't know when drivers could
48:40
Speaker 2: switch on. It was you know at the sixty minute
48:43
Speaker 2: mark they can switch over and do the testing that
48:46
Speaker 2: they didn't do an FP one or is it when
48:48
Speaker 2: they finished their run plan? And what ties are they allowed?
48:51
Speaker 2: It was just so ambiguous. It was really poorly done.
48:55
Speaker 2: And for that prerely ninety points, thanks very much.
48:58
Speaker 1: It was extremely boring, give you that more so the
49:02
Speaker 1: most I.
49:03
Speaker 2: Wonder if it was also just because of the timing,
49:05
Speaker 2: because we were both in Australia covering that that session,
49:09
Speaker 2: so it worked out to be like what five thirty
49:12
Speaker 2: or something in the.
49:13
Speaker 1: No, well, that's the worst part. I think that was
49:14
Speaker 1: Actually it was like seven or eight am. It should
49:16
Speaker 1: have been good. Yeah, it was a good the sun
49:18
Speaker 1: was up, made myself a coffee perfect. I love these races.
49:21
Speaker 1: If I'm at home for them because it's breakfast Grand Prix.
49:25
Speaker 1: You make yourselfie breakfast, you watch the race.
49:27
Speaker 2: I think maybe the energy levels were dropping in as
49:29
Speaker 2: a result. Yeah, the energy level was dropped.
49:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair.
49:35
Speaker 2: They fell off. The energy levels hit the cliff.
49:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go, very good. Ninety points off. That's
49:40
Speaker 1: fair enough. Look, I also did not really appreciate those
49:44
Speaker 1: ninety minutes. For the final pick for this week, my
49:47
Speaker 1: math serves me correctly, it's thirty one points off. Christian
49:51
Speaker 1: Horner for despite all of the aforementioned evidence that he
49:56
Speaker 1: said was in controvertible, in controvertible, said no, he would
50:00
Speaker 1: not be appealing any of the penalties, almost as if
50:04
Speaker 1: the evidence was nonsense. What a waste of everyone's time.
50:09
Speaker 2: What a waste of amendous waste.
50:14
Speaker 1: And the air is thin in Mexico, it's precious.
50:17
Speaker 2: Don't waste your I mean, I don't think about any more.
50:21
Speaker 2: Go faster than the craft for that. Ah, that's that
50:27
Speaker 2: is fantastic. So that works out to me around one year.
50:36
Speaker 2: I'm very very happy with that. I would have been
50:40
Speaker 2: disappointed if you're going anywhere else, you know, you slipped
50:45
Speaker 2: a cheeky Jonathan Wheatley or something in there. But that's
50:49
Speaker 2: that's fabulous. That is Yeah, it was a series of
50:54
Speaker 2: comments that didn't cover Christian hornering glory.
50:58
Speaker 1: But you know what, we had to go one hundred
51:02
Speaker 1: points up. I will not be walked back from the
51:04
Speaker 1: hundred points. That's all the time we have for Pittalk today.
51:07
Speaker 1: We will be back next week to wrap up all
51:09
Speaker 1: the action from Brazil. You can subscribe to Pittalk wherever
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Speaker 1: you get your favorite podcasts, and if you like us,
51:14
Speaker 1: leave us a rating and a review as well. You
51:16
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51:17
Speaker 1: ON news throughout the round or the week at both
51:19
Speaker 1: Fox sports dot com dot Au and Speedcafe dot Com.
51:22
Speaker 1: From Matt Kosh and me Michael Lamonado, thanks very much
51:25
Speaker 1: for your company and we'll catch you next week.